Sebum only and sweat

[Zugar]

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, but those of you who do the "sebum only"-thing, how do you deal with sweat? Do you just not sweat on the scalp, or do you consider the sweat being "washed" away with only the sebum-massage?

Thank you :)

[MINAKO]

there is no way to deal with sweat when it comes to this, you need to rinse it out. and there are essentially no people i know of who do not sweat at all. i did read that it recommended to let it all dry up and then "brush it out"... mechanical cleansing, yadda yadda. there is no such thing, its distributing personal filth in favour to use it as themost natural conditioner possible. i dont think that sebum is automatically richer in nutrients for the hair then other things are tho, after allhair is dead and doesnt really care for where the chemistry we slap on comes from as long as it is the right balance.
i kind if think that sebum only replaces the natural moisture level of the haircompletely with oils that make it into the hair shaft. anyone feel free to correct me if that isnt right, i dont really claim to know that in depth.

im not fond of this method at all, so i dont really know a solution to the problem (other then swimming in a lake once in a blue moon, thats allowed tho, lol) what i also dnt get is the comparison to animals and their fur. it may be alright for thosein the wild, but no anima out there has hair as silky as a show champion yorkie pampered to perfection. i dont want to offend anyone, but i find it unhygenic, so i would never try it myself. its the routine for those who gave up on finding the right products, that doesnt mean there aren't any.

[LemonFizzy]

I would ask the those who are participating in the sebum only thread. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=144&page=331

edit: I wanted to add that I stretch washes through mechanical cleansing: boar bristle brush, buffalo horn comb, mustache horn comb. The brush and combs remove a LOT of wax and dirt from my hair and my scalp. I learned these techniques from the gals on the sebum only thread, and I highly recommend reading through the thread and/or asking those currently active there.

[spidermom]

From reading the thread from time to time, I gather that sweat is just fine. It's allowed to dry; no special method is used to remove it outside of the usual routines SOers use to move sebum along and remove dirt.

I don't think it's hygienic either, unless you live in Shan-gri-la where there is no pollution or illness.

[lapushka]

I don't particularly like sebum-only. It's doomed to fail on me as I have SD, and my scalp needs a wash when it comes to that time, or otherwise my scalp is going into protest-mode and saying "clean-me, clean-me NOW". I do stretch my washes to a week, and I think sweating even though unnoticeable happens from day to day. So generally speaking, stretching to a week could also be called "unhygienic". I think we should stop referring to sebum-only in terms of hygiene. But that's just MHO.

[MINAKO]

I don't think it's hygienic either, unless you live in Shan-gri-la where there is no pollution or illness.

i want to run off now and watch lost horizon. olivia hussey sure didnt have any hair issues throughout the movie.
stretching washes and removing lint and dust with a BBB is totally fine, but never washing hair at all makes me seriously wonder what that hair would look like (and grow) in a petri dish.

[CousinItt]

SO is not unhygienic if done right, and my scalp was never in better shape than when I followed an SO routine. I suspect all our mucking about with excessive cleansing products can cause a bacterial/fungal imbalance on our skin, especially in areas like the scalp and skin folds. I think gentle care that doesn't strip the skin of its natural, protective microbes, in combination with a clean diet, is probably more hygienic and kinder to our sensitive skin that what we're taught is "clean".

I was strictly SO for a while. The moisture from sweat just absorbed into my hair and made it feel thicker, and anything else got cleaned out with the scritching and preening. The only reason I stopped SO was because I missed my seeing my curls from time to time. Now I do WO interspersed with weeks of SO-based care and maybe an occasional clay washes or herbal rinse. Whatever I'm in the mood for.

[spidermom]

haha Minako, something the science-minded among us can't help.

Politically correct around here or not, I do wonder about the hygiene of going through life with unwashed hair. I've seen what my combs and brushes look like if I wait too long to clean them.

[lapushka]

Politically correct around here or not, I do wonder about the hygiene of going through life with unwashed hair. I've seen what my combs and brushes look like if I wait too long to clean them.

Yeah, but but but... ;) spidermom, there's all sorts of methods on this site, some might not agree with you or you might not agree with them, but that doesn't make them any less valid. This is generally speaking.

Personally, I think it's a bit yucky, but that's me, I wouldn't ever consider it. But to each their own. I'm not about to be caught up in a hygiene debate, because you could basically apply that to the stretching washes thread as well, then where would it end?

[MINAKO]

haha Minako, something the science-minded among us can't help.

Politically correct around here or not, I do wonder about the hygiene of going through life with unwashed hair. I've seen what my combs and brushes look like if I wait too long to clean them.

yepp, it does probably qualify as some sort of eco system from a certain point on. i also dont think that regular mild washing does break any balance at all. question is if the skins natural barrier can handle all the unnatural bacteria and pollution it is exposed to. i mean, it does compare to cleaning skin with sandpaper, noncomedogenic and antiseptic are adjectives that cant be used here.

[lapushka]

Guys, please let's not get sidetracked. Think of the people on the sebum-only thread. How you're making them feel. I mean, it's not for me personally either (and I think it would be gross for *me*, not for someone else) - I won't generalize.

[MINAKO]

i know thats kind of a sensitive topic to discuss, but im not judging anyone, merely discussing the method. there's a pro an con to most of things, we should be able to talk about these, especially if things can be backed up by science, opinions dont really matter so much. its just theories, of course everyone decided for thmselves and i respect that.

[CousinItt]

But you're not talking science MINAKO, you've been talking pure opinion and speculation, and that's all you and Spidermom have done on this thread since your first post. If you don't like SO, maybe you should not hang out in SO and spout opinions about how bad it is, or why people try it.

Fact is, there is evidence to suggest that being too clean, at least in our formative years, might be linked to chronic health concerns (read about the hygiene hypothesis). Fact is, your hair is still laden with bacteria, despite regular washing. Fact is, our skin and hair are chock full of healthy and protective bacteria that get depleted every time we scrub. Fact is, nobody has died nor become seriously ill from doing SO or having SO hair fall in your food.

[MINAKO]

no its not pure opinions that i have been "spouting". theres quite alot of eveidence of benefit to the things i mentioned about skin function too. nobody was talking about being too clean, so please dont put words in my mouth that i havent said at all.
if you are looking for more proof of how clean SO hair potentially can be you can check out tests on germs found on every day things like phones and laptops, they dont just clean away by brushing and the skins natural barrier cant fight off everything. i certainly wouldnt want everyones and their moms bacteria, virus, fungus and what not to get a chance to grow steong and plenty on my hair.
let alone that it night work for growing hair long in a safe spot, but calling it hygenic with the argument of some people being OCD on scrubbing themselves like theres no tomorrow is an unvalid example in my book.

again, it does not matter if i personally like it or not, but i see flaws in this method so i mention them. thats why its called discussion board i guess.

[CousinItt]

I never mentioned OCD cleaning either. Regular every day washing of skin and scalp is what I'm talking about. What we're taught to do all the time. As for the skin not fighting everything off- true, but that's mostly when it's been cut or scraped. Bodily fungal infections have more to do with diet than not cleaning ones self in acceptable ways.

In fact, I have yet to meet someone who has done SO for years complain of a fungal overgrowth on their scalp, or even regular b.o. Type smelly hair. SO care being a breeding ground for unhealthy bacteria or fungi, more so than a regular scalp, is pure social bias and speculation on your part.

[hannabiss]

Well...getting a little back on task here..ahem. SO isnt for me. As in I was definetly brought up to wash my hair. However I love stretching washes and support WO. SO i can see where its be unsanitary. But not because i think humans NEED to wash out hair. If we lived in a world where there were no pollutants in our air. Sure why not. However no matter where you live because weve choosen to pollute our earth there is always some nasty crap in the air to get mixed on your hair and body. Long story short i think SO is just fine for the people who do it. Peraonall id only ever go WO. Because id like to at least style my hair while its wet sometime. As far as sweat goes im sure they simply let it dry and use a fine tooth comb to comb out the salt crystals and possible gunk. live and let live.

[MINAKO]

i hardly know anybody on here who claims that daily washing is the key to have the best hair ever. and as hair itself is dead im not exactly sure how effectively the distribution of some sebum can work on figthing off all the nasty stuffwe mentioned. im not even going into efficiency of other ingredients that can help to keep hair from decaying, which it essentially does once it comes out of the scalp, very slowly, but surely.
i just cant deal withall the praise of how much better it apparently is not to even get in contact with water once in a while. that would actually do some cleansing as opposed to distributing the dirt to a point where it is just visibly undetectable.
anyways,i leaveitat that... not my hair, not my business.

ETA: just a little point iwant toadd in term of how all natural everything is not always best in preserving things. some dogs who are getting scary products forced upon them have better hair than any animal out there in the wild licking themselves until their sebum is well spread. nothing can beat a proper routine right there, if they like it or not. http://www.drishaun.co.uk/P1010015.jpg

[truepeacenik]

I think, from occasional reads of the no water sebum only threads here and elsewhere, that it's all a matter of what your hair and scalp can take. Mine would rebel at so much mechanical handling. It tolerates rinses and dilute washes better.

I also have to consider scent. If my hair smells the least bit funky, my employer and my clients have legitimate issues.
Since I can't use scented oils to mitigate, as I work in a scent free zone theoretically, sebum only is off the table for me.

Plus, I recently met with someone who goes about a month between washes, and I could smell that person coming.
I think we scent fatigue easily, especially with our own scent.

[CousinItt]

I'm not praising it. I'm just saying there's no evidence to suggest that hair and scalp are any more prone to harboring fungi, viruses or dangerous bacteria than hair using any other care method.

And, for the record, the OP didn't ask for people's opinions on SO, just what to do about sweat. Yet every time someone asks something outside the official SO thread regarding SO methods, people have to pop in to talk about how gross it is. It's not gross. I know, I've tried it. Have you?

I don't go into the seborrheic dermatitis thread and preach to everyone there they should try SO and a moderate carb diet, even though that's what cured my chronic dandruff and rebalanced my scalp (the diet moreso than the hair care method). Why? Because I know it wouldn't be well received. Just like opinions on the grossness of SO are not well received by me.

[CousinItt]

My husband has the nose of a bloodhound. He never smelled my hair when I was SO. He would have complained bitterly if I stank even slightly.

Maybe all of you should try changing your diet?

[MINAKO]

this is not THE So thread. and i did answer the question of OP to my best avail, explaining why brushing can never truly remove sweat and much of anything else. did you hear about mobile phones that arent sanitzed to have as much bacteria on them as a toilet seat? why would that be different for hair? what is going to happen if these germs continue to grow? just get used to it and call it a day? ...well, not for me.

[meteor]

I haven't tried SO, so I won't be of much help, but I have stretched washes, and I just wanted to add that sweat is mostly water, lactate, urea and trace minerals (sodium, potassium, magnesium, etc...) with pH typically between 4.5 and 7 - so nothing scary.
Everybody perspires every day, whether they notice it or not, and oil production is at its highest right after washing anyway (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00560397), so we all walk around with some sebum and sweat (and lots of bacteria) on top of skin anyway. I would think that accumulation of dirt (sticking to sebum and sweat) could become problematic in the long run. I think it's a balancing act and a practicality issue. Yes, you are not likely to really suffer from not washing frequently, unless there is some infection/fungal issue going on. (So it's good to know that in case I'm lost on a desert island, at least, I won't have to worry about not having shampoo or other products.)

However, SO involves a lot of preening, scritching, massaging, combing with fine-tooth combs, so it's is a very involved method... So I wonder if SO takes more time and effort than washing hair? :hmm: (Sorry, if this is OT)

I do hope more people who have tried SO will add their input for the OP. :flower:



I don't go into the seborrheic dermatitis thread and preach to everyone there they should try SO and a moderate carb diet, even though that's what cured my chronic dandruff and rebalanced my scalp (the diet moreso than the hair care method). Why? Because I know it wouldn't be well received.

Why not, CousinItt? :flower: I'm sure, you and everybody else will be welcome there! :) The low-carb diet is a great recommendation for SD and other skin conditions! :thumbsup: There is a lot of research to support the sugar consumption and skin connection anyway, not to mention lots of anecdotal evidence. And yes, I can see how even washing less can help some, especially if the skin is reacting to some ingredients in skin-care or hair-care products, and those ingredients are irritating and disrupting the barrier function of the skin, causing more bacterial overgrowth/fungal issues.



ETA: I think everybody can express their opinions on any topic as lot as it's KNIT! :flower:
That's the beauty of a friendly and informative discussion. ;)

[spidermom]

Cousin Itt, I didn't say that SO is this, that, or the other thing, only that I wondered about it from a hygiene standpoint. From visiting the NW/SO thread, I know there is a core group of people who do well with it; more power to them. Others are curious, try it, post about various problems with it (including smell and hair that never looks good), then move on to try something else. So let me say I DON'T KNOW for sure; I only wonder.

As for sweat, what I've noticed for myself is that I can let it dry in my hair once between washes without problems, but after that I have to at least rinse it out or I will have very limp, dull hair.

[truepeacenik]

Cousin Itt, I suspect you were commenting about my comment.
Which was written in reference only to my situation and experience.

Every human scalp has a scent. We are supposed to emit chemical signals.
Problem is, we are so confused as to what a human smells like that we assume any scent is a bad thing, unless we paid money for it.
In close quarters, I can't risk the balancing period, and I can't risk the mechanical damage.

I have dealt with sweat and long stretches between washings, and never felt I had a good solution, aside from a rinse.
Brushing helped. A bit. So did blotting while soppingly sweaty.
A version of airing powder was ok, and maybe was the best I could do.

OP, are you ok with adding oils, such as EOs? Or tea rinsing?

[CousinItt]

*snip*

Why not, CousinItt? :flower: I'm sure, you and everybody else will be welcome there! :) The low-carb diet is a great recommendation for SD and other skin conditions! :thumbsup: There is a lot of research to support the sugar consumption and skin connection anyway, not to mention lots of anecdotal evidence. And yes, I can see how even washing less can help some, especially if the skin is reacting to some ingredients in skin-care or hair-care products, and those ingredients are irritating and disrupting the barrier function of the skin, causing more bacterial overgrowth/fungal issues.



ETA: I think everybody can express their opinions on any topic as lot as it's KNIT! :flower:
That's the beauty of a friendly and informative discussion. ;)

meteor, your post was a nice, thoughtful change on here. Thanks for that.

i'm sure my opinion would not be very welcome if I used some of the terminology that's been used here - if I refered to temporarily suppressing a fungal infection instead of treating it at its source as "filthy" or if I pondered what you could grow in a Petri dish from the scalp scrapings of someone suffering from SD. Or maybe I can speculate on the motives behind why someone would use washing to control SD instead of diet? Lack of discipline? Or if I said for us scientifically-minded people we wonder about the long-term hygienic effects of temporary fungus control instead of finding a more permanent solution (I'm quite the fan of science thankyouverymuch) And then if I disguised these opinions as fact, people would certainly have something to say about it.

Opinions are fine, but when they are expressed in disparaging or condescending terms, they quickly become unwelcome, and, unfortunately SO is one of those topics that attracts many uninformed, bias-laden opinions.

truepeacenik - I was responding to your post about odor. My hair didn't smell at all. My husband nuzzled his nose in my hair and said it didn't smell. This is a man who recognizes people by their smell (he's a bit face blind). I didn't have smelly feet and I had no body odor either. I attribute that to the diet I was following. My skin glowed, my hair was moisturized and thick and full. I also attribute that to diet. My suggestion that people should change their diets was a serious one, although perhaps with a little acid added.

But if you don't want to do SO for fear of smell, then that's your perogative. Nobody is insisting you should do it.

[Nadine <3]

I don't go into the seborrheic dermatitis thread and preach to everyone there they should try SO and a moderate carb diet, even though that's what cured my chronic dandruff and rebalanced my scalp (the diet moreso than the hair care method). Why? Because I know it wouldn't be well received. Just like opinions on the grossness of SO are not well received by me.

I have a SD thread going on right now, and I wouldn't mind if you gave your advice. Granted, I'd be more open to the diet advice just because I adore the ritual of hair washing and smelling freshly washed hair and such, but every bit of advice I'm grateful for and it's always welcome :) Even though I don't practice SO, I will admit, I find it cool and interesting and if my head didn't get unbearably itchy I would try it out of curiosity. I think it's a shame that people who practice certain things seem to be almost fearful of saying anything about them in threads. Can't we just post with a "hey, this is what works for me" without people going "eeewwww you must have so many ickies on your head" Even if someone does have a nasty head...so what? It's that persons head. Just don't touch people heads and if they do smell bad well...leave. (I'm not saying SO people stink, I wouldn't know as I've never known anyone personally who practiced it)

Anyways, it looks like a link to the SO thread has already been posted, so I guess I'll take my leave. :toast: OP, I hope you find the answer to your question!

[CousinItt]

I have a SD thread going on right now, and I wouldn't mind if you gave your advice. Granted, I'd be more open to the diet advice just because I adore the ritual of hair washing and smelling freshly washed hair and such, but every bit of advice I'm grateful for and it's always welcome :) Even though I don't practice SO, I will admit, I find it cool and interesting and if my head didn't get unbearably itchy I would try it out of curiosity. I think it's a shame that people who practice certain things seem to be almost fearful of saying anything about them in threads. Can't we just post with a "hey, this is what works for me" without people going "eeewwww you must have so many ickies on your head" Even if someone does have a nasty head...so what? It's that persons head. Just don't touch people heads and if they do smell bad well...leave. (I'm not saying SO people stink, I wouldn't know as I've never known anyone personally who practiced it)

Anyways, it looks like a link to the SO thread has already been posted, so I guess I'll take my leave. :toast: OP, I hope you find the answer to your question!
Your post melted my cold, cold heart Nadine<3

That post of mine was poorly worded. I meant if I posted in there and was condescending or judgemental about my opinion and then tried to pass it off as fact. I think I may go over to the SD thread and share my experiences. I just get annoyed with the childish eeeww ickies responses (that's exactly how they sound in my head too)

For those scientifically-minded readers. Apparently when sebum mixes with sweat it creates an acidic and mildly antimicrobial and antifungal barrier on the skin. This allows for the growth of friendly lacto-bacillus colonies and is particularly effective against gram positive bacteria like staph. So, sweat+sebum=not unhygienic.

[squirrrel]

For those scientifically-minded readers. Apparently when sebum mixes with sweat it creates an acidic and mildly antimicrobial and antifungal barrier on the skin. This allows for the growth of friendly lacto-bacillus colonies and is particularly effective against gram positive bacteria like staph. So, sweat+sebum=not unhygienic.

This is exactly what I was thinking as I read the original question... We need both sweat and sebum to give our scalps the environment it needs to keep it healthy - that's one of the reasons we have those glands. Why would I want rid of it? As long as I SMP enough, and use my bbb as and when my hair is happy, and my scalp very quickly got used to the new routine. No, it doesn't look like freshly washed hair, but it looks good enough people wouldn't immediately tell me to go wash it! Yesterday I got a compliment on how my hair looked when I took it down out of its ponytail... That's despite the fact it has been 16 weeks since I deliberately put water on it.

I'd say the post above speculating on how much work SO is is right... I've never worked half as much at keeping my hair nice as I do with this routine (though it is significantly less now than when I first started, doesn't need as much time any more), but it is important that it looks/smells OK for work and i have been known to ask colleagues if it looks OK and they always say 'yes'. For me, it's worth it not to have to deal with wet hair for hours. Right now at least. That may change, especially if I don't get a handle on the splits at some point, but...

[CousinItt]

This is exactly what I was thinking as I read the original question... We need both sweat and sebum to give our scalps the environment it needs to keep it healthy - that's one of the reasons we have those glands. Why would I want rid of it? As long as I SMP enough, and use my bbb as and when my hair is happy, and my scalp very quickly got used to the new routine. No, it doesn't look like freshly washed hair, but it looks good enough people wouldn't immediately tell me to go wash it! Yesterday I got a compliment on how my hair looked when I took it down out of its ponytail... That's despite the fact it has been 16 weeks since I deliberately put water on it.

I'd say the post above speculating on how much work SO is is right... I've never worked half as much at keeping my hair nice as I do with this routine (though it is significantly less now than when I first started, doesn't need as much time any more), but it is important that it looks/smells OK for work and i have been known to ask colleagues if it looks OK and they always say 'yes'. For me, it's worth it not to have to deal with wet hair for hours. Right now at least. That may change, especially if I don't get a handle on the splits at some point, but...
Yeah, the first month can be pretty labor-intensive. After that I found I could scritch and preen once every couple of days. And Nobody knew I didn't wash my hair. It never looked stringy and never smelled.

I had bad splits and dry ends until bedhead suggested I try using my fingers more and brushes and combs less. So I decided to do a two-week fingers only challenge, and that really helped. I still do finger only scritching and preening. My splits really only come up now when I use my hair tools too much, or too recklessly.

[squirrrel]

Mmmmm. *nods* good point! Will have to get better at finger combing to neaten, and generally not being rough with it (not always very good at telling just how vigorous I'm being) but I'll get a handle on that. Also think that as my hair gets healthier in general and I slowly get rid of old damage that will likely help. :)

[truepeacenik]

Your post melted my cold, cold heart Nadine<3

That post of mine was poorly worded. I meant if I posted in there and was condescending or judgemental about my opinion and then tried to pass it off as fact. I think I may go over to the SD thread and share my experiences. I just get annoyed with the childish eeeww ickies responses (that's exactly how they sound in my head too)

Well, imagine how people respond when told how they nourish their bodies is icky? Not that I had much response to that, a many, many, many year vegetarian fiddling and experimenting with, gasp, fish, is going to get a lot of heat.
My only thought was, ah. Eat dead things and I could skip washing hair. Nah, not for me. I've long ago stopped giving acid to those thoughts. But boy was I obnoxious back in the 1980s.

I get the good bacteria line, but how do environmental factors play in?
I think living in the mountains, outside of an urban environment would have different effects than coastal living, prairie living and urban/suburban living.



For those scientifically-minded readers. Apparently when sebum mixes with sweat it creates an acidic and mildly antimicrobial and antifungal barrier on the skin. This allows for the growth of friendly lacto-bacillus colonies and is particularly effective against gram positive bacteria like staph. So, sweat+sebum=not unhygienic.

As I said, I was talking about my experience, as you are. It is really all we have, collective personal experience that may or may not encourage people to experiment, research and even develop products.

Meeting a person stretching washes who was emitting a strong smell ( yeasty, so something is out of balance) from a few feet away, definitely resonated, since I work so physically close with clients.

I stand by my comment that humans are supposed to emit their personal signature. Those might be distinctive, but not unpleasant.
I have a couple clients who swear they don't use anything scented, ever, and they both smell of bayberry.
I use scent in my assessments (TCM derived).
Everyone has a scent. Some people also have the scent of illness, or lack of care.

[spidermom]

After participating in this thread and being scolded, I found this information - that sebum promotes skin/scalp health through its pH, and it also helps us be waterproof so that we don't absorb environmental ick through our skin. Taking that into consideration, I probably do scrub down my skin too often (once per day, most days; I love a good sudsy scrub). The same site said that a buildup of sebum on the scalp can lead to hair loss and should be washed "but no more than 2-3 times per week." This is from a dermatology web site. I assume moving sebum through NW/SO techniques benefits in that aspect as well. So I withdraw my concern about hygiene, at least as far as this site is concerned.

And yes - I'm too undisciplined to completely change my diet. I wouldn't be able to afford to eat differently than the other 3 people in this house anyway. 4 people/1 income, and I'm spending part of it to go to college.

[animetor7]

I think that SO generally works best with dry hair and scalps, and I think this would hold true for the sweat question as well. I know I get acne along my hairline when I don't wash my hair and my scalp isn't happy, so SO isn't for me, but I have an oily scalp. If SO is working in general for you, I wouldn't worry too much about some sweat, maybe rinse it if it's making you uncomfortable, but if it makes your hair limp, then just wash it. There are no hard and fast rules, you don't have to be a complete purist in your methods of caring for your hair.

[midnight_blue]

I see no problem with the sweat issue with regards to SO, mostly for reasons that have already been covered. My issue is with other pollutants, one summer I was wondering around London all day and while at the pub my friend came back from the bathroom and told me to go and wash my face. So I did, and the water ran black. My face didn't look dirty at all and that would be my worry. Maybe if you live out in the country you can get away with it, I'd be less inclined to try it living in an urban area. Having said that my son is WO and washes his hair once a week or less, even then his scalp barely gets wet, it's mostly the length being washed. You'd never tell, in fact very few people even realise that I've never used shampoo on him, used to make me laugh when I got told he smelled like Johnson's when he was younger!

[Zugar]

Wow, so many answers! Thank you!

truepeacenik: No EOs for me, I guess. I love them, and have experimented with them, but I usually react allergically to them :( Also experimented with tea-rinses, but my hair didn´t like it all. In all fairness, I´ve might have done it wrong, but no - didn´t like it.


So - conclusion; the sweat isn´t generally bad for the hair, it comes down to personal preference? In my case, I react with itch, guess it´s due to the lactic acid in sweat. That´s why I wondered how you guys did it :)

[Zugar]

Wow, so many answers! Thank you!

truepeacenik: No EOs for me, I guess. I love them, and have experimented with them, but I usually react allergically to them :( Also experimented with tea-rinses, but my hair didn´t like it all. In all fairness, I´ve might have done it wrong, but no - didn´t like it.


So - conclusion; the sweat isn´t generally bad for the hair, it comes down to personal preference? In my case, I react with itch, guess it´s due to the lactic acid in sweat. That´s why I wondered how you guys did it :)

[CousinItt]

Spidermom I think you're the coolest for coming back to this thread and saying all that. You have absolutely won my undying respect for being awesome.

FWIW I don't think people are lazy if they don't change their diet - that was just a rhetorical sentence used to illustrate the type of judgement I saw in this thread. There are a ton of reasons why people do or do not do something, and it's not up to me to judge them. I just want to make sure people have accurate information, is all. If your routine and diet work for you, then keep it up.

midnight_blue I live in a city that experiences frequent pressure inversions so all the pollution and dust just hangs over us for days on end. After 6 months of SO I did a water rinse of my hair, and there was no black gunk that washed off. I guess it maybe got brushed out?

zugar in the beginning itch can be an issue. But after a month or so, with regular scritching and preening, that stops.

truepeacenik if everybody smells anyway (good and bad)when you're close enough, despite the use of products, then what was your point?

There are two reasons that i can see why someone would post about smell in an SO thread:
1)they want to try SO and are concerned
2)they have decided SOers always go through a smelly phase/SOers always smell

Group one will likely be relieved by my answer that smell doesn't have to be an issue, and maybe ask questions, group two has already made up their minds and will probably get defensive.

If you felt my statement about diet was judgemental, it was supposed to be. It was intended to make those who are being judgemental feel for an instant what it's been like on the other side of this issue. Judging by your response, it was effective.

By the way, where did I say you should change your diet to eat meat, or to eat like me? I just think most people with chronic skin conditions or bodily smells probably would do well to investigate possible food allergies and intolerances, and maybe consider taking probiotics, thereby facilitating a change in their diet.

[truepeacenik]

Cousin Itt. Valid.

Concern about smell, insofar as experimenting with either WO or SO, for me is how the clients would react.
Since I've seen some mind blowing nitpicks in surveys of clients, I have to be 100 percent sure that "she smelled of dirty hair" could never be applied to me. It would cost me a job. That's a big risk. A risk mitigated by merely stretching washes and diluting.

I can see one more reason a non So-er would ask.
Because they don't know.

On a typical social interaction, you probably would never notice slightly dirty hair (scent wise) as we tend to use scent.
So, people just getting exposed to a new way of doing something might need advice, not a dressing down.

Speaking from my own experience, it was always easier to entice someone to consider vegetarianism with a good meal rather than a meat is murder rant or long dry recitation of how animal foods act in the body, especially related to BO. The latter was my ineffective method at first. I was in sufferable in years one through six. Seriously insufferable.

[meteor]

Interesting discussion! :)
I wanted to add something I forgot to mention earlier: that there are now cleansers (and other skin-care products) that utilize probiotics (e.g. Lactobacillus), including by major cosmetics companies like L'Oreal, and there is growing research into harnessing skin's microbiome in skin care, so bacteria can be used to fight other bacteria and cleanse. This is particularly promising research route for people with sensitive skin, eczema, psoriasis and other skin problems.
Here is a pretty interesting article: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/25/magazine/my-no-soap-no-shampoo-bacteria-rich-hygiene-experiment.html?_r=0

[CousinItt]

Cousin Itt. Valid.

Concern about smell, insofar as experimenting with either WO or SO, for me is how the clients would react.
Since I've seen some mind blowing nitpicks in surveys of clients, I have to be 100 percent sure that "she smelled of dirty hair" could never be applied to me. It would cost me a job. That's a big risk. A risk mitigated by merely stretching washes and diluting.
We're cool ;)

That's a valid concern, and a reason why you might consider not going SO.


I can see one more reason a non So-er would ask.
Because they don't know.
Those people generally fall into group one. They will ask questions and listen to what is being said.


a typical social interaction, you probably would never notice slightly dirty hair (scent wise) as we tend to use scent.
So, people just getting exposed to a new way of doing something might need advice, not a dressing down.

Speaking from my own experience, it was always easier to entice someone to consider vegetarianism with a good meal rather than a meat is murder rant or long dry recitation of how animal foods act in the body, especially related to BO. The latter was my ineffective method at first. I was in sufferable in years one through six. Seriously insufferable.
i'm not trying to woo anyone to SO. I am trying to cut through the ignorance around this hair care method. Sometimes education is uncomfortable.

[CousinItt]

Interesting discussion! :)
I wanted to add something I forgot to mention earlier: that there are now cleansers (and other skin-care products) that utilize probiotics (e.g. Lactobacillus), including by major cosmetics companies like L'Oreal, and there is growing research into harnessing skin's microbiome in skin care, so bacteria can be used to fight other bacteria and cleanse. This is particularly promising research route for people with sensitive skin, eczema, psoriasis and other skin problems.
Here is a pretty interesting article: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/25/magazine/my-no-soap-no-shampoo-bacteria-rich-hygiene-experiment.html?_r=0

Interesting! Thanks for the info meteor.

[eloquence]

Thanks, Meteor! I am excited about the potential of probiotics, and upcoming studies being performed. This is a truly amazing age for technology. For our scalps to actually wash themselves....well, this could change everything we know about hair care. :D

[Upside Down]

Hm well, I am a big believer in natural balance of the organism being best so I don't think sweat is evil, and SO makes sense to me. It is not my preference because it is too much work, and I like henna/deep treatments etc too much. And swimming. And chocolate :lol:

I guess sweat can be an issue if you work out and sweat a lot often, but in a regular setting, no I don't see the problem, if you move it along with sebum down hair...

But for example, my skin used to be dry when I thought that one should wash it all with showe gel and scrub down (it feels sooo good...), and then apply lotion.
Nah. I got so itchy I decided to change something.
I only use soapy clensers now on critical areas and the rest of my skin only goes through water once a day. I haven't used body lotions/butters for years, and my skin is not dry anymore.

[eloquence]

Hm well, I am a big believer in natural balance of the organism being best so I don't think sweat is evil, and SO makes sense to me. It is not my preference because it is too much work, and I like henna/deep treatments etc too much. And swimming. And chocolate :lol:

I guess sweat can be an issue if you work out and sweat a lot often, but in a regular setting, no I don't see the problem, if you move it along with sebum down hair...

But for example, my skin used to be dry when I thought that one should wash it all with showe gel and scrub down (it feels sooo good...), and then apply lotion.
Nah. I got so itchy I decided to change something.
I only use soapy clensers now on critical areas and the rest of my skin only goes through water once a day. I haven't used body lotions/butters for years, and my skin is not dry anymore.

Same. Nature's got your back. And your front, and your sides....lol

[Dreams_in_Pink]

I have a bit of experience with sweat and long hair.

I'm doing a cardio-heavy workout program everyday. After the workout i wash my body in shower, get dressed and take down my bun and dry the roots with hairdryer on cool setting. Every 4 days i wash my hair with shampoo and conditioner, but it's not any dirtier than when i wasn't working out.

It seemed nasty to me at first too, to let sweat dry on hair. But in time i found out that sweat is just salty water.

Not sure how SO hair would hold up though.

[MINAKO]

i just opened a thread for a special scalp cleaning brush im about to buy and thought this could be interesting for SO people as well. its super pricey, but then again who cares about saving money on a brush that truly does its job. i didnt try it myself yet, but the reviews i read on japanese sites are promising.

ETA: oops, heres the link
http://s-heart-s.com/product-category/scalp-brush/

[CousinItt]

Cool. Thanks MINAKO. I'll have a look since scritching is a big part of my routine. I bet some WOers might also be interested.

[MINAKO]

alot of peple in te reviews said although it is recommended to usein the shower it already works great at cleaning the scalp just brushing hair dry before washing it, so its probably good for any routine. getting 4-5 star reviews at that high price it must live up to its claim in some way. i will buy it since the tangle teezer im currently using in the shower is ok i guess, but it can be a bit harsh and also the bristles are too short to reach the scalp without moving around the hair alot in sections.

[midnight_blue]

Hm well, I am a big believer in natural balance of the organism being best so I don't think sweat is evil, and SO makes sense to me. It is not my preference because it is too much work, and I like henna/deep treatments etc too much. And swimming. And chocolate :lol:

I guess sweat can be an issue if you work out and sweat a lot often, but in a regular setting, no I don't see the problem, if you move it along with sebum down hair...

But for example, my skin used to be dry when I thought that one should wash it all with showe gel and scrub down (it feels sooo good...), and then apply lotion.
Nah. I got so itchy I decided to change something.
I only use soapy clensers now on critical areas and the rest of my skin only goes through water once a day. I haven't used body lotions/butters for years, and my skin is not dry anymore.

Yeah I gave up using shower gel years ago, the only time I use soap on my body is on my armpits if I don't have time for a shower. Oh and on my hands! Even just using water is too drying on my skin, so now I add a bit of oil to a bath a couple of times a week and that's enough to keep my skin nice and moist.