I simply cannot "train" my hair.

[xoChesleyy]

I am coming to the conclusion that I will never be able to "train" my hair to not get greasy fast. For over a year now, I have been trying to stretch my washes as long as possible so my hair will stop getting greasy so quickly. Now I am beginning to wonder-- Can some people just not accomplish this?

One day after washing, I notice my hair starts looking visibly oily. A lot of it is towards my roots and several inches down my scalp, including my bangs and front pieces. The ends get dry quite a bit and aren't as "affected" by this like the top of my hair. It's significantly oiler two days after washing to the point where it irritates the crap out of me, but I deal with it. I have tried baby powder as well as cornstarch and they both make my hair look dry and gives it a weird feeling, so I stay away from that. I have tried dry shampoos as well. Is there something I am doing incorrectly, or will I just be forever be unable to stretch my washes? :/ Any tips or things that worked for you guys would be awesome!

I switch around my shampoo and conditioners.. I always use SLS-free and stick with natural or organic products. At the moment, I am using the Yes To Carrots shampoo and conditioner.

[Wildcat Diva]

Depending on my variance from my routine, I have been able to get to a week with no problem, and I am happy with that. If it's not working for you, why struggle? Do what works.

Maybe there is something in your diet that might be affecting oiliness?

I wouldn't think it is worth it to keep trying if you are not happy with the result.

[FrostedLoki]

Doesn't work for me either, I have to wash it every 2 days... every 3 if I get very lucky. I've tried changing shampoos, brushes, methods of hair care, my diet, etc. Nothing works.

Oh well. Figured I'm pretty active anyways so maybe it's better I wash my hair more often.

[meteor]

I agree with Wildcat Diva and FrostedLoki! Why struggle? Do what works. :)

I think it's reasonable to wash hair when it gets dirty and when it's practical.


I'd say gentle sulfate-free shampoos (if used more than twice in a row) make me feel like I need to wash hair more often. Harsher, non-conditioning clarifying shampoos, as well as shampoos for oily hair and anti-dandruff shampoos all might allow to wash hair less frequently.

Another thing to experiment with for people who want to stretch washes is clay washes/masks: rhassoul, bentonite, kaolin and other clays work by absorbing extra oil very well.

Also, consider scalp-only washes, since you mention your bangs and front pieces as the offenders. Braid and/or bun your hair, cover it with a plastic shower cap or two and wash only the scalp / hairline area in the shower or over sink. This won't completely clean the scalp, but will reduce visible greasies quite well while saving on drying time, wet manipulation and detangling. :)

[Seeshami]

Train hair....Mess what are they talking about?

The naughty mess says, "i have no idea hair monsters never listen to or do what slave people want or try to tell them. We're incapable of being agreeable."

Just checking.

[xoChesleyy]

Ugh.. I'm determined! Although I'm not sure I'll ever be able to stretch washes as long as I would like.. Do you guys think a BBB would help it get oily less frequently, since it would help distribute the oils?

[Majorane]

Yes, a BBB will help, for sure. But not enough for everyone. I have given up on training, I've tried literally for years and I am fed up with looking like a greaseball. With a gentle sls-free shampoo I started getting greasy in the night from day 2 to 3 and on day 3 I was a walking frying pan. Strrrrrong hate! And dry crappy ends to boot. So I'm now back to a perfumed, crap containing regime with cones and sls and all the Bad Stuff. Oh noes, so against policy!

....But my hair FINALLY seems to start to not-hate me AND now I only get greasy roots at the end of day 3. :rockerdud And screw it, I'm not trying to walk around like a deepfryer fell on my head any longer, so day 4 my hair gets shampoo and screw the stretching. I am done with that. And my hair is, too. So, I support Meteor's anecdotal evidence that with harsher shampoo I stay grease-free longer.

Not everyone is meant to be all happy nature zen mild scrubscrub awesome. Harsher shampoos were invented for a reason, and your hair likes what the hair likes. I was sad, I'd have loved to ditch the SLS and even any other shampoo and go water only, but it causes me more damage, so poop to that and in with the chemicals. At least I don't look like a scarecrow.

:)

[Wildcat Diva]

Well, BBB, that is an idea.


Also: Have you tried switching to CO for your wash to get away from shampoo then? Maybe that's counter intuitive?

[Nadine <3]

I tried stretching washes and all I got was seborrheic dermatitis. I never had problems until I decided to stretch washes. Many people may think it's great and you can't have long hair if you wash to frequently and I'm just calling poopy. My scalp just likes being washed every other day so I give it what it wants and condition well. My hair isn't perfect because I have old blow fried layers, but my hair is the softest and shiniest I've ever seen it.

I live by the if it feels like it needs a wash, just wash it mantra. Washing my hair 4 times this week #yolo

I was probably no help, I'm just full of to much sass. :poot:

[Stormynights]

My hair only gets oily quickly if I use conditioner at the scalp. I only condition what tangles the most.

[xoChesleyy]

Well, BBB, that is an idea.


Also: Have you tried switching to CO for your wash to get away from shampoo then? Maybe that's counter intuitive?

Would COing make it more greasy, or does it somehow counteract that effect? And do you apply the conditioner to the roots and length? I've tried once but not long enough to see results and I'm not even certain I was doing it correctly. :p

Also, how much conditioner should I be using for hair that is a little above waist length? I am guilty of using quite a bit of conditioner on my length.. But I don't really apply it to my roots so I'm not sure why it's mostly my roots that are greasy?

As for the BBB-- I've had my eye on a Morrocco Method one. It's a bit pricey ($58 with shipping), is it worth it?

[Marika]

I've been trying to stretch washes from every 2 days to 3 for 15 years and it just doesn't work. I like washing my hair (and haven't found it damaging or drying) but sometimes it would be convenient not to wash so often.

[gwenalyn]

Bangs tend to show greasiness fast--I use dry shampoo religiously on mine, otherwise I'd never be able to go more than a two days. Some people shampoo only their bangs/front pieces over the sink, maybe you could try that?

I also happen to use Head & Shoulders, which around here is considered harsh, so maybe the people upthread are on to something. Personally, I think so-called natural "gentle" shampoos are overhyped. Either they use sulfate-equivalent surfactants, so you're just paying extra for the label, or they don't actually work as well, which means more mechanical damage from lathering and washing more often.

Anyway, I'm a fan of stretching washes, but that's because I also happen to have the driest skin ever and every time I get my skin wet washing hair/showering I get horrible, red, itchy skin. So yeah, I'd rather look like a greaseball :)

[Majorane]

I've been trying to stretch washes from every 2 days to 3 for 15 years and it just doesn't work. I like washing my hair (and haven't found it damaging or drying) but sometimes it would be convenient not to wash so often.
I salute you, oh persistent one. Your resilience and determination are the stuff revolutions are made of.

[Nique1202]

Bangs tend to show greasiness fast--I use dry shampoo religiously on mine, otherwise I'd never be able to go more than a two days. Some people shampoo only their bangs/front pieces over the sink, maybe you could try that?

I also happen to use Head & Shoulders, which around here is considered harsh, so maybe the people upthread are on to something. Personally, I think so-called natural "gentle" shampoos are overhyped. Either they use sulfate-equivalent surfactants, so you're just paying extra for the label, or they don't actually work as well, which means more mechanical damage from lathering and washing more often.

I have been about three or four months at this point washing my hair once a week, and my hair is still having none of that nonsense after day 5. I'd just throw it in a bun or a braid and not worry about it except that my fringe REALLY starts getting piece-y after 4-5 days instead of being a smooth unit, so it's dry shampoo and weird-feeling hair if I have to go anywhere on day 6 or 7.

I think the biggest thing is, as gwenalyn has pointed out here, sls-free shampoos are the least friendly to stretching washes. Some people have success with it, but they're the ones whose scalps don't produce much oil in the first place. For oilier scalps, something stronger is crucial to washing less frequently.

From what I've read on the forums, CO washing is next up in effectiveness, but there's not only a lot more work (and potential mechanical damage, especially if your hair stretches a lot when wet) but some scalps have bad reactions to conditioning agents. I can't put conditioner or my post-wash oil anywhere within 3 inches of my scalp or I'm oily again in a day or two, even now. Some people even get dermatitis flareups from conditioning agents on the scalp.

The best bet for stretching washes is SLS-containing shampoo. SLS can cause some dryness or mild irritation to skin, but it's also the most effective at clearing out the grossness, and it's not dangerous in shampoo unless you count the part of the population that's allergic to it. You'd definitely want a good conditioner for your length if you use an SLS shampoo.

Or, you could just wash as often as your hair needs it with the products you like. There's no crime in that, either. Over a very, very long period of time, if you're growing to classic or beyond, you might have slightly more damage washing every two days than someone who washes every seven days, but it's not going to make as much of a difference as, say, what kind of brush or comb you use. Mostly, stretching washes is about being lazy.

[Chromis]

I do not use sulphate shampoos and have always stretched washes (usually about once a week-ish more or less). My scalp gets terribly dry and itchy if I wash too often and it takes a couple of weeks for it to look visibly greasy unless I over do the oiling.

That said, I do not think there is One True Path to hair success. There are many people here who grow gorgeous hair with all many of wash routines! I'm not sure why people keep talking about the "LHC Way" when our members use so many different methods!

[ravenheather]

I cannot stretch washes. My hair likes being rinsed frequently. I rinse my roots and condition my ends every night. If it is really oily on the second night I use just a bit of african black soap on the front hair line and around my ears. This gives me one more day. So 2-3 days is where I'm at and keeps hair and scalp happy. BBB just made the greasy parts more obvious. I blame my fine hair. YMMV.

[browneyedsusan]

:twocents:

I call shenigans! Others can stretch washes if they want, but I can't be bothered. I wash when its greasy, itchy, or bugging me. --With bargain-basement Suave products.--

Yours in washing every 2 or 3 days.
Susan

[Robot Ninja]

Would COing make it more greasy, or does it somehow counteract that effect? And do you apply the conditioner to the roots and length? I've tried once but not long enough to see results and I'm not even certain I was doing it correctly. :p

Conditioner contains surfactants. It removes grease. Yes, you have to apply it to the roots, and massage it into your scalp. A lot of people can't CO-wash because their scalp doesn't like it.

You will see some results after the first time you do it, as in, your hair will be clean. If it isn't clean, CO-washing is not for you.


Also, how much conditioner should I be using for hair that is a little above waist length? I am guilty of using quite a bit of conditioner on my length.. But I don't really apply it to my roots so I'm not sure why it's mostly my roots that are greasy?

I don't think there is a such a thing as too much conditioner, as long as you rinse it all out.


As for the BBB-- I've had my eye on a Morrocco Method one. It's a bit pricey ($58 with shipping), is it worth it?
You can get them at Walmart or Sally's for less than 20 bucks. Get a cheap one first, in case your hair doesn't like it. Just make sure it's 100% boar bristles; some of the cheap ones have nylon bristles mixed in, which are bad.

[TwilightShadow]

My advice is try SLS-shampoos, like others have said as well. I use Head&Shoulders only on my scalp and I can wash my hair every 5-7 days. I tried going sulfate-free for about 6 months and I had to wash my hair every 3-4 days. As long as your scalp doesn't react badly to it, why not use a harsher cleansing agent?

[MINAKO]

i think for some it does just nothing trying to change hat circle. but as long as your hair is healthy dont feel bad. i can get away with a week if i really try hard i can mae it two. but my hair MUST Be drowned in product at all times. it eats leave ins like candy. i have to detangle daily and feed it some moisture and oil at the least. so even if i can skip the washing, theres an equal part in my routine i cant switch up, just like you.

[GoddesJourney]

I can't just not wash at all so I CO every day and shampoo like twice a week, sometimes once. If I'm really determined I will CO twice. However, I find shampooing does help my hair grow faster, which I suppose is because my scalp stays healthier. Everyone has to find their own happy medium for their own body. It's like diet and exercise and sleep. Some people need more or less of each. Some people need red meat, others can't digest it. Same with milk. I need lots of exercise to sleep and have an appetite. I can do that and eat pretty freely and not put on weight. I can eat only salad and fish and not work out and get squishy fast. My friend from work is the opposite. My hair loves conditioner. My other friend from work gets greasy hair with conditioner. She has to blow dry to have nice hair. Blow drying makes mine both dry/brittle and greasy looking somehow….

You get the point. Don't feel you need to do with your hair what works for others. Your body may just want what it wants.

[DreamSheep]

I tried stretching washes and all I got was seborrheic dermatitis. I never had problems until I decided to stretch washes. Many people may think it's great and you can't have long hair if you wash to frequently and I'm just calling poopy. My scalp just likes being washed every other day so I give it what it wants and condition well. My hair isn't perfect because I have old blow fried layers, but my hair is the softest and shiniest I've ever seen it.

I live by the if it feels like it needs a wash, just wash it mantra. Washing my hair 4 times this week #yolo

I was probably no help, I'm just full of to much sass. :poot:

This! If it doesn't work for you, stick to what works. :)
I've seen beautiful manes of hair who wash daily or every other day.

I am a stretched washer, but this is because I had a fear of showers when I was little, so I guess I was trained at a young age to wash my hair as infrequently as possible (couldn't bath and wash my hair), and I was already used to doing it once a week.

To an extent it may be possible to train the oil at the expense of having greasy hair for longer periods, but honestly, I find that personal comfort comes before - so if you don't want to there's no reason to do so, and there are other ways of making your haircare routine "healthier" by perhaps just doing scalp washes or using less harsh shampoos so as not to dry your hair up too much.

Some people also finds conditioner makes the scalp greasy, so maybe avoid using too much product near your scalp?
BBBing may help too, but if you have fine hair beware of damage and make sure your hair is adequately detangled beforehand. Madora offers magnificent information on how to use a BBB brush.

[Madora]

I am coming to the conclusion that I will never be able to "train" my hair to not get greasy fast. For over a year now, I have been trying to stretch my washes as long as possible so my hair will stop getting greasy so quickly. Now I am beginning to wonder-- Can some people just not accomplish this?

One day after washing, I notice my hair starts looking visibly oily. A lot of it is towards my roots and several inches down my scalp, including my bangs and front pieces. The ends get dry quite a bit and aren't as "affected" by this like the top of my hair. It's significantly oiler two days after washing to the point where it irritates the crap out of me, but I deal with it. I have tried baby powder as well as cornstarch and they both make my hair look dry and gives it a weird feeling, so I stay away from that. I have tried dry shampoos as well. Is there something I am doing incorrectly, or will I just be forever be unable to stretch my washes? :/ Any tips or things that worked for you guys would be awesome!

I switch around my shampoo and conditioners.. I always use SLS-free and stick with natural or organic products. At the moment, I am using the Yes To Carrots shampoo and conditioner.


Perhaps the problem isn't what you use but your scalp itself? Maybe you have an overly active scalp that produces more oil than usual?

On the other hand, it might be what you are using to shampoo your hair.
Also, do you put anything else on your hair? Oils/gels/crèmes/hairspray?

A pure boar bristle brush is a great way to distribute your hair's natural sebum (oil) down the strands. However, if you have not brushed in a long time (or never) might initially cause your follicles to produce a little extra sebum. I never experienced this myself but a few members have experienced this when they began to brush. Your follicles need time to adjust themselves to the stimulation the brush gives them. Be sure to brush in the "upside down" position for best results..and to detangle your hair gently before brushing it.

As for the hairbrush, Con Air makes a very nice pure bbb ..the Classic Wood Natural Shine Booster. It has six rows of nicely placed bristles and is rectangular in shape (shiny caramel colored with a small nubby black neophrene band around the neck of the brush to give you a better grip on the brush when brushing). Retails for $9.99 at Target.

To help remove the oiliness you might want to try placing a white cotton sock over the brush, then brushing.

Other things to consider: have you clarified recently?
Since your hair appears to be oily, perhaps shampooing twice might help: the first shampoo is for the length to help remove dirt. The second shampoo concentrates on the scalp mostly.

You also might want to consider diluting your shampoo and diluting your conditioner as well.

Lastly, while stretching washes as much as possible is fine, there is no harm washing your hair once a week. As Dr. Michael said, you should wash your hair when it needs it. Good luck!

[Fericera]

If you're gentle, I really don't think it hurts to wash it more often. When I grew out my hair as a teenager my hair was way too oily to even stretch to twice a week washings, and it grew long and perfectly healthy. I don't think it's worth being miserable, but that's just my two cents.

[spidermom]

The thing I hate most about long hair is having it hang all over me while it's wet, unless it's a hot day. I tried to cut down to washing it only once per week, but it's always oily and itchy by day 3 or 4. I ended up with seborrheic dermatitis, too. Scalp health trumps hair condition!

[Eastbound&Down]

I can stretch my washes to about 5 days but I work out too often to go that long. I don't shampoo everyday though, I co wash/shampoo in a 2:1 ratio (meaning if I shampoo on Monday, I will co wash 2 times before I shampoo again). I wash my hair every 2 days on that schedule and it seems to keep my hair in good shape.

I also do an overnight DT with coconut oil once a week. Just find what works for you. Best of luck!

[dellad]

I find that doing a diluted ACV rinse helps me stretch one more day than when I don't do it. I use a 1 part vinegar, 10 parts water dilution.

[Anje]

Not everyone's head makes oil in reaction to washing/dryness/etc. My skin does; even my face gets oily when it gets dried out, so I get the lovely combination of oily flakey peeling skin. Other people seem to be on a set schedule and their skin produces a specific amount of oil (high or low) no matter what's going on externally. Hard to know which category you're in for sure without experimenting. I suspect most people who produce decent amounts of oil are somewhere in-between. They can get their scalps to adapt a little, but they can't stretch beyond a certain point. Those who can go weeks without washing... well, they've got something else going on apparently, and stretching washes is clearly pretty cool for them. :)

I can only stretch washes so much, especially if I'm using shampoo. After a few days, the hair at the scalp starts to look like it needs washed, and then I wash it and start over again. Changing to CO extends that a little for me, but that's also dependent on whether your scalp puts up with CO. Even then, I notice seasonal variations. Some seasons (winter for me), my hair gets oily faster than others (summer in my case).

So, my point is that maybe you can do it if you change things up. Maybe you can't. It's all about what works for YOU, not just complying with what someone else recommends.

[teal]

You might not be able to stretch washes. If your hair is on the finer side of M, the greasies will probably appear more prominent. However, if you think it's possible, here's what worked for me:

- WO washes in between regular washes, with particular attention to scalp massage and moving sebum down the hair shaft. I pull gently down on small sections of hair from root outward while my head is tipped upside down under the shower head. YMMV on this one - if you're trying to control scalp issues, this might not work for you.

- Moving away from lathering shampoo. When I started washing with BS, I tweaked the ratio so that it wasn't stripping every last bit of the sebum out. Regular shampoo would do that, no matter what. It seemed that when I left some of the sebum it not only felt better but was less greasy in the following days, too. Again, this won't work if you're fighting scalp issues.

- Brushing with BBB. This, IMO, takes forever. :laugh: But it does work to spread out the sebum.

- Becoming accustomed to how sebum looks and feels on hair. This is not to say anyone should go around with greasy hair and just learn to love it! For me, having the sebum around allows me to make neater updos (less frizz!) with no product and no water. My hair is fine and I don't have a lot of it, so this is important to me. I also personally believe that the idea of sebum being protective of hair.

- Diet monitoring and adjustment. Coffee in particular seems to encourage excess sebum production for me. There are probably other foods that contribute, I just haven't identified them. That said, when I'm eating a balanced diet with decent water intake, lots of plant matter, few fried things and little or no coffee, it seems to be easier to stretch washes. (Thinking on it, I wonder whether foods which are oily and/or "exude through your pores" are all culprits when had in large quantities? :hmm: Coffee, garlic, chips, certain spicy things, etc? I'm not much of a spicy-food enthusiast, but I do love garlic... has anyone else noticed anything in this regard?)

- Stress monitoring/reduction. I fail at this, all the time. When I am less stressed, it's easier to stretch washes.

[teal]

I just thought of something else - hormones. And with that, hormonal birth control. I have noticed differences in production as my body goes through varying stages, events and cycles.

[meteor]

- Diet monitoring and adjustment. Coffee in particular seems to encourage excess sebum production for me. There are probably other foods that contribute, I just haven't identified them. That said, when I'm eating a balanced diet with decent water intake, lots of plant matter, few fried things and little or no coffee, it seems to be easier to stretch washes. (Thinking on it, I wonder whether foods which are oily and/or "exude through your pores" are all culprits when had in large quantities? :hmm: Coffee, garlic, chips, certain spicy things, etc? I'm not much of a spicy-food enthusiast, but I do love garlic... has anyone else noticed anything in this regard?)

- Stress monitoring/reduction. I fail at this, all the time. When I am less stressed, it's easier to stretch washes.

Interesting, and I don't know about that mechanism so don't want to assume...
But my immediate thought is that those hot, spicy foods and hot caffeinated drinks and high stress levels simply raise blood circulation, blood pressure and body temperature making one sweat more and triggering a bit more oil production (plus heat makes oils/waxes spread more, making it more visible)? Sweaty scalp often feels/appears like it's in need of a wash/rinse. Unless one has some scalp condition like SD there is no real need to rinse off sweat right away, but it can feel so much nicer and cleaner (especially after a workout or something).


About the baking soda... if you really prefer it to shampoos, maybe getting pH testing strips would be of help? Just to test your mixes and make sure they don't throw off your scalp's and hair's pH too much?
pH of hair is 4.5 - 5.5 and natural pH of healthy skin is estimated around 5.5 (or even below 5): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18489300
The acid mantle is not something to mess with, unless you really have to, because it's the environment that affects skin's barrier function, moisturization (dry skin is more alkaline) and bacterial growth on skin.

[meteor]

I just thought of something else - hormones. And with that, hormonal birth control. I have noticed differences in production as my body goes through varying stages, events and cycles.

Yes, absolutely! Hormones drive this stuff, but there isn't much we can do about it - it's driven by overall health and medication (if applicable).
Most of us have experienced oiliness in teenage years, and average levels of post-menopausal oil production to pubertal oil production are like day and night.
And time in the cycle matters a lot, too, for the same, hormonal reasons.


Just like there is skin care for oily skin types and dry skin types, there are shampoos for oily and dry scalps. And I think simple shampoo formulas for oily hair with salicylic acid (BHA) and preferably fragrance-free (fragrance can irritate and trigger more oil excretion) are a good bet for very oily scalps.

[Gertrude]

I gave up stretching washes when my good friend remarked I used to be blonde. It really goes several shades darker and looks awful stringy and even in up-dos a greaseball. After a week it looked like an oil slick. I did get a lot of itching but fortunately no SD. I wash on day 3, which is still an extra two days from the washing daily I used to do. I also get times when my hair is just oilier and then I will wash every other day, but usually it's day three. I haven't noticed any problem with my hair splitting and going downhill. Dusting helps my hair most, keeping it split free as possible and gaining length slowly.

So stretching washes and avoiding all trims don't work for me. Which is fine, it's my hair (-:

[teal]

About the baking soda... if you really prefer it to shampoos, maybe getting pH testing strips would be of help? Just to test your mixes and make sure they don't throw off your scalp's and hair's pH too much?
pH of hair is 4.5 - 5.5 and natural pH of healthy skin is estimated around 5.5 (or even below 5): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18489300
The acid mantle is not something to mess with, unless you really have to, because it's the environment that affects skin's barrier function, moisturization (dry skin is more alkaline) and bacterial growth on skin.

Thanks for the study link, I'm always interested in reading scientific literature! :flower:

Thanks also for the note about the acid mantle disruption. I do care quite a lot about maintaining my body's natural processes, including the symbiotic bacterial communities. It might be worth noting that I only wash with BS about once every two weeks, often longer, and my mixture is quite dilute (about 1tsp per 2c water). Also, I always follow that with an ACV rinse, which is also subsequently rinsed with water. I forgot the ACV rinse once. Only once!! The feels of my hair and scalp after that were just too miserable for my tolerance, and I actually went and took a second shower just for the ACV rinse. (In my house, two showers in a single day almost always means I got covered or soaked in something unappealing.)

While I haven't performed any scientific testing on it, the anecdotal results have been that my scalp feels less itchy or bothered* with this method versus shampooing every second or third day, which was my routine before I discovered LHC. (* I don't have concerns with dandruff, SD, psoriasis or similar.)

[Rosetta]

Many people may think it's great and you can't have long hair if you wash to frequently and I'm just calling poopy.
There are many people even here (and more outside) who prove that wrong :)


I live by the if it feels like it needs a wash, just wash it mantra.
That's my mantra as well :D

[cathair]

You look quite young in your avatar photo. Perhaps stretching is something that will come more easily when you are older? I couldn't have done it when I was younger, but I can stretch easily over a week now. My hair was just much greasier when I was younger.

[meteor]

Great to know, Teal! :flower:
I bet experienced LHC mixologists don't run into my mixing problems ;) , but I'm just always concerned about pH of my own water-based mixes that I do for skin and hair, and it never ceases to surprise me how easy it is to throw off the pH by just tweaking the formula a tiny bit, since pH is on a logarithmic scale, so I wanted whoever reads it to pay attention to pH. (With commercial products, it's not really an issue, since manufacturers normally stabilize pH at skin- and hair-friendly levels and at levels where their active ingredients work.)

Cathair, I'm the same: used to be a lot oilier, and now am and will probably continue getting drier and drier. Totally normal for both men and women, and for women it's also cyclical.

There is also a seasonal component to this for some people in continental climates with harsh winters (drier skin/scalp may require less frequent washing).

I believe, having longer and thicker hair helps distribute oil along the length a bit, too, making stretching washes easier. And let's not forget the texture component, of course. I heard some curly friends referring to weekly shampooing as being too frequent for them - in their case, they can really stretch washes and need to add more oils and conditioners.

I think it's just so individual that it's best to just wash when your individual scalp and hair need it and use adequate cleansers (for some they may be harsher than for others).



I do not think there is One True Path to hair success. There are many people here who grow gorgeous hair with all many of wash routines!

This is so true. I couldn't agree more! :agree:

[lapushka]

I have seborrheic dermatitis, and get oily fast (need to wash 2 to 3 times a week, normally). I was able to stretch to a week, but I use a harsh sulfate shampoo or else this wouldn't be possible - at all. Sulfate-free is just too mild, both for my oil as for my SD.

[Panth]

I have seborrheic dermatitis, and get oily fast (need to wash 2 to 3 times a week, normally). I was able to stretch to a week, but I use a harsh sulfate shampoo or else this wouldn't be possible - at all. Sulfate-free is just too mild, both for my oil as for my SD.

Similarly, I have SD and fine hair and it gets oily pretty fast. I use sulphate-free shampoos as I also get dry, peeling, scaling skin in response to sulphates (yay!), but I can't really stretch more than 3 days.

IMO, the whole stretching washes thing is a matter of degree. I absolutely believe that the majority of the (healthy) population does not need to wash their hair daily (teenagers, perhaps excepted) unless they actually get it dirty (rather than just sebum-y). Some people wash their hair twice a day! That, IMO, is really OTT. However, I also don't think that the majority of people can go more than about 3 days, certainly no more than a week, whilst maintaining a Western standard of appeared-cleanliness and whilst using Western haircare and eating a Western diet, etc.. Yes, there are lucky people who can wash fortnightly or monthly. However, there's also a lot of people who get SD if they try to stretch washes much past twice a week.

Incidentally, I have F hair and grew it to just past TBL whilst using Pantene (lots of sulphates!). My hair was perfectly fine.

IMO, stretching washes is more a convenience - after all, as Spidermom said, who wants to have sopping TBL+ hair every day? especially if you air dry? However, I mean going from daily to every other day or every three days. That is realistic. I do think that sulphates should be avoided if possible, but that's for scalp and skin health rather than for fear of damaging hair. If you're not doing lots of other damaging stuff as well, using sulphates is probably fine for your hair. (Re. sulphates and skin, see this: http://www.eczema.org/aqeous (note the study was in people without eczema).)

[Knifegill]

I was a grease machine before I gave up (mostly) wheat and vegetable oils. I can eat spoonfulls of tallow and lard, butter and all the other natural plant fats, too. But any kind of soybean oil, corn oil, etc. and I get instantly shiny all over, especially the acne areas and scalp. Have you tried getting away from refined oils for awhile, if you don't avoid them already?

[Gertrude]

I am not a grease ball in general , have quite dry skin which I need to moisturise. It takes very little oil indeed to make my hair look very plastered to the head greasy. My eager experiments with oiling before washing soon showed that didn't work at all. Like @ Panth effective, SLS, detergents give me flaking, itchy miserable skin. I can't have SLS in toothpaste etc. No doubt with a stronger shampoo I could get longer between washes but that's no way towards happy hair, skin and me.

Very fine hair has a little oil gland for each and every very fine hair. They don't in my experience have to gush to make light hair look oily in very little time. My hair is doing fine, better than ever with three day washing. So on the fourth day. Rather than every other day.

[meteor]

Incidentally, I have F hair and grew it to just past TBL whilst using Pantene (lots of sulphates!). My hair was perfectly fine.

IMO, stretching washes is more a convenience - after all, as Spidermom said, who wants to have sopping TBL+ hair every day? especially if you air dry? However, I mean going from daily to every other day or every three days. That is realistic. I do think that sulphates should be avoided if possible, but that's for scalp and skin health rather than for fear of damaging hair. If you're not doing lots of other damaging stuff as well, using sulphates is probably fine for your hair. (Re. sulphates and skin, see this: http://www.eczema.org/aqeous (note the study was in people without eczema).)

Interesting stuff! :)
I hope I'm not derailing the thread, but since sensitivity to sulfates was mentioned ...
Panth, and other guys who are sensitive to sulfates: which surfactants do you like now? Cationic? What do you think about betaines and glucosides? Do you recommend cleansing with mild, cationic stuff on a regular basis and then using something stronger once in a while? Or some other routine?

I know that sulfates are typically at least mildly irritating to skin, and but finding effective surfactants that don't irritate isn't that easy either.
There are just so many non-sulfate surfactants out there now (and typically 2 or more are included in the same product, plus lots of other ingredients) that I find it challenging to figure out which ones my scalp and hair really prefer.

[Chromis]

Meteor - I am one of the ones sensitive to sulphates. I also use sulphate-free toothpastes because I get canker sores otherwise and soap-soap rather than detergent soap. (On dentist's recommendations actually, these toothpastes are also gentler on sore gums) For my hair I use shampoo bars. No conditioner, no clarifying washes. I do use an ACV rinse and also add a dash of citric acid in very hard water.

[Panth]

Interesting stuff! :)
I hope I'm not derailing the thread, but since sensitivity to sulfates was mentioned ...
Panth, and other guys who are sensitive to sulfates: which surfactants do you like now? Cationic? What do you think about betaines and glucosides? Do you recommend cleansing with mild, cationic stuff on a regular basis and then using something stronger once in a while? Or some other routine?

I know that sulfates are typically at least mildly irritating to skin, and but finding effective surfactants that don't irritate isn't that easy either.
There are just so many non-sulfate surfactants out there now (and typically 2 or more are included in the same product, plus lots of other ingredients) that I find it challenging to figure out which ones my scalp and hair really prefer.

I use shampoos with cocoamidopropyl betaine as the first surfactant ingredient. Currently, I use Boot's Naked Volume Unleashed Body Building shampoo (http://www.boots.ie/en/Naked-Volume-Unleashed-Body-Building-Shampoo-250ml_28862/). Ingredients are:

Aqua, Cocoamidopropyl betaine, Sodium cocoamphoacetate, Sodium lauryl sarcosinate, Coco-glucoside, Glyceryl oleate, Glycerin, Panthenol, Parfum, Lavandula hybrida (lavandin) oil, Citrus lemon peel oil, Pogostemon cablin (patchouli) oil, Citrus aurantium dulcis peel oil expressed, Rosmarinus officinalis (rosemary) leaf oil, Pelargonium graveolens (geranium) oil, Eugenia caryophyllus (clove) leaf oil, Cananga odorata (ylang ylang) flower oil, Aniba rosaeodora (rosewood) oil, Citrus aurantium amara (bitter orange) leaf oil, Litsea cubeba oil, Mentha piperita herb oil, Citrus grandis (grapefruit) peel oil, Juniperus virginiana (cedarwood) oil, Wheat amino acids, Chicorium intybus (chicory) extract, Lauryldimonium hydroxypropyl hydrolysed soy protein, Hydroxypropyl guar hydroxypropyltrimoium choride, Sodium hydroxymethylglycinate, Potassium sorbate, Sodium benzoate, Citric acid.

(Phew! Didn't quite realise there was so much in there! And so many oils! I basically use it because it's the easiest accessible sulphate-free, cocoamidopropyl betaine-based shampoo that I can get hold of.)

Like Chromis, I also use soap-soap for my hands and sulphate-free toothpaste (most Sensodyne toothpastes are sulphate-free and cocoamidopropyl betaine-based, though warning! there are a couple of Sensodyne ones that contain sulphates). Stopping using sulphate-containing toothpastes cleared up my decade-long unexplained issue with sore, inflamed, receeding gums almost instantly. Unlike Chromis, I have LHC to thank for that one - my dentist had never been able to explain my gum problem.

[Upside Down]

I don't know if this was mentioned before, but with me any manipulation of hair around scalp will cause greesies. For example, going from sleeping in a french braid (touching moving/hair around scalp once a day) to a regular braid adds a day or two. Brushing every day sets me back by several days.
It makes sense, less agitaton of sebum producing glands leads to less sebum being produced.

Worth considering, I believe.

[Upside Down]

doble post being double

[meteor]

Chromis, Panth, thank you so very much! That's very helpful! :flowers:

I guess I'll experiment with new sulfate-free shampoo formulas... but it's crazy how many of them are loaded with plant extracts and oils and other "natural" ingredients that can build up pretty fast instead of just providing a clean wash.

Upside Down, I absolutely agree. More manipulation (grooming, styling) definitely results in an oilier look for me, too. I know it doesn't make it dirty, it just looks oilier and rougher, so that's when I do my scalp-only wash usually, to refresh the look in between full washes.

[Gertrude]

Meteor, I use toothpaste ( Retardex UK) without any detergent in. Sadly not high in fluoride )-: but my gums don't like any detergent. On the shampoo side I am very much not a chemist. For people not sensitive to sulphates something with Sodium Laureth combined with a betaine and glucosides will be gentler chemically than some betaine with other non SLS detergents shampoos. Betaines behaved depending on the other ingredients in a formula, they can be harsh or mild. C olefin Sulfonate is SLS free, but incredibly drying. Used in degreasing in industry.

I also itch at many plant extracts, and most non SLS shampoos are in " Natural" ranges. And wheat proteins and guars build up horribly on me. I do usually find a not too plant material shampoo, just by going to the bigger chemists ( drugstores) and reading the ingredient lists. They're often discontinued but others pop up.

I use soap soap for washing everything but hair.

Other than cooking I am not skilled at mixing up anything ..........

[ARG]

Like many people have mentioned, I wash my hair as needed. For several month now Friday has been "wash day", but the past two weeks I've noticed my hair needing washing as early as Wednesday, so I washed it on Wednesday. I know hormones and some extra manipulation are to blame for my "problem". If my hair needs washing, I wash it.

The important thing for me personally, is to make sure I wash my hair only when excessive sebum is present, but not much later or else I get an itchy scalp. When I do notice my hair is getting dirty faster I always do a clarifying wash, just to be sure its not build up.

[xoChesleyy]

Well, I went out and bought the Suave Rosemary + Mint shampoo and conditioner a few days ago. Today is day three and my hair hasn't gotten much of an oily appearance yet! (Usually on day three my hair would start getting to the point where it was so greasy I couldn't stand it.) Hopefully not a coincidence! Maybe I'll be able to make it to day four.. Or five? :D

I appreciate everyone's suggestions and I had never considered that it may have been due to my sulfate-free shampoo. Next, I will be buying a wide tooth comb (anyone have any recommendations?) and a BBB and see how that goes along with the sulfates!

ETA: Another thing I have noticed is that my hair is significantly less tangled and feels softer. Before, I couldn't even run my fingers through my hair without encountering countless knots. It also looks a lot shinier, probably due to a cone-y ingredient in the conditioner. :P

I had always thought sulfates and cones were terrible due to a lot of things I have read online, but so far, my hair seems to like them!

[MiamiPineapple]

Some things I have found from trying to stretch washes:
1) my hair is always going to be oily because I workout everyday and I live in Miami
2) using a sulfate free shampoo doesn't allow me to stretch washes as long as when I use a sulfate shampoo
3) dry shampoo feels kind of weird but you can get used to it. It will never feel the same as clean hair but it does cover the grease if used correctly
4) nothing feels as good as freshly washed hair!

[meteor]

Well, I went out and bought the Suave Rosemary + Mint shampoo and conditioner a few days ago. Today is day three and my hair hasn't gotten much of an oily appearance yet! (Usually on day three my hair would start getting to the point where it was so greasy I couldn't stand it.) Hopefully not a coincidence! Maybe I'll be able to make it to day four.. Or five? :D

I appreciate everyone's suggestions and I had never considered that it may have been due to my sulfate-free shampoo. Next, I will be buying a wide tooth comb (anyone have any recommendations?) and a BBB and see how that goes along with the sulfates!

ETA: Another thing I have noticed is that my hair is significantly less tangled and feels softer. Before, I couldn't even run my fingers through my hair without encountering countless knots. It also looks a lot shinier, probably due to a cone-y ingredient in the conditioner. :P

I had always thought sulfates and cones were terrible due to a lot of things I have read online, but so far, my hair seems to like them!

Yay! So awesome when a simple routine works best! I experience the same re: sulfates + cones, to be honest... they let me stretch washes while having better shine and slip.

As for your question about combs/BBBs, I can't say much about brushes, but for combs, Hairsense (http://hairsense.com/bone_combs.php)makes nice bakelite combs and rakes.
Personally, I have good success with this seamless Body Shop comb (http://www.thebodyshop.co.uk/bath-body-care/haircare/detangling-comb.aspx) (it's wooden, so shouldn't be used on wet hair) and an ordinary plastic Afro pick.

[Panth]

Well, I went out and bought the Suave Rosemary + Mint shampoo and conditioner a few days ago. Today is day three and my hair hasn't gotten much of an oily appearance yet! (Usually on day three my hair would start getting to the point where it was so greasy I couldn't stand it.) Hopefully not a coincidence! Maybe I'll be able to make it to day four.. Or five? :D

I appreciate everyone's suggestions and I had never considered that it may have been due to my sulfate-free shampoo. Next, I will be buying a wide tooth comb (anyone have any recommendations?) and a BBB and see how that goes along with the sulfates!

ETA: Another thing I have noticed is that my hair is significantly less tangled and feels softer. Before, I couldn't even run my fingers through my hair without encountering countless knots. It also looks a lot shinier, probably due to a cone-y ingredient in the conditioner. :P

I had always thought sulfates and cones were terrible due to a lot of things I have read online, but so far, my hair seems to like them!

Yeah, sulphates and 'cones are not the devil. If you don't have a sulphate sensitivity, then sulphates are fine. If you don't use product combinations that are prone to build-up (i.e. be sure to only use "regular" (non-water-soluble, non-anti-build-up 'cones) with either sulphates or cocoamidopropyl betaine), then 'cones are fine. They also have lots of positive qualities - 'cones enhance slip and shine and are anti-static and anti-tangle. Not everyone's hair like them, but for those that do, they're really good.

Re. wide toothed combs, I like the Body Shop wooden one. And yes, I use it on wet (damp, not sopping) hair. Haven't noticed any problem from that - I just make sure to wipe it dry afterwards if necessary and keep the wood happy with the occasional oiling (using hair-friendly oils, e.g. olive or coconut). If you want something that's definitely ok for wet hair, you can use bone, horn or plastic. Quecraft make nice horn combs (and hairsticks). Just a regular plastic one will do fine, provided you use a knife or very fine-grade sandpaper to remove any seams from the tines.