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Obsidian
February 1st, 2015, 01:42 PM
This post will probably be rambling and disjointed, I apologize in advance. I need help keeping my hair healthy while I grow it some more and I'm at a loss as how to do it. To start my hair is 2b/2c/fm/ii with a bit of 3a at the nape of my neck. Its currently shoulder length and layered, I'd like to get it to bst. I have colred it a couple times in the last year but only a couple shades lighter or darker then its natural shade. I recently used madder root to go red.

I have seborrheic dermatitis and I can't use conditioner, not even sulfate and cone free or else I get big itchy spots I scratch until they bleed. For the last year I've been using handmade shampoo bars (I make my own) and a vinegar rinse. Its worked well when my hair was short but its getting longer now and my curls are starting to get really tangle-y. If I brush it, it turns into a poof ball, if I don't brush it, it turns into a wild mess.

I've tried oil treatments, it doesn't help. I've used curl defining serum, it makes my hair crunchy. Shea body butter helps some but too much will weight my fine hair down. Silicone based serums seem to be the best "band-aid" but it doesn't wash out well with my poo bars and it absolutely has to be washed out within 12 hours of applying it.

Any idea what I might use that will soften my hair some without weighing it down or irritating the seborrheic dermatitis? My hair is at the point I usually get frustrated with it and chop it all off. Last year I cut it about a inch all over, makes my scalp easier to care for but I hate it that short. In all honesty, I hate the curls, especially the ringlets at my nape. I wish I had soft waves all over so any product that might help relax the curls would be great too. No henna, I like the color but its too much upkeep.

Eastbound&Down
February 1st, 2015, 01:59 PM
I found a recipe for a shampoo made with coconut milk
1/4 cup coconut milk
3-4 drops of essential oil of your choice
1/2 cup baby shampoo of your choice
1 tsp vitamin e, olive, or almond oil

It's supposed to be very gentle and good for color treated hair, it might be worth a try.

Eastbound&Down
February 1st, 2015, 02:00 PM
I found a recipe for a shampoo made with coconut milk
1/4 cup coconut milk
3-4 drops of essential oil of your choice
1/2 cup baby shampoo of your choice
1 tsp vitamin e, olive, or almond oil

It's supposed to be very gentle and good for color treated hair, it might be worth a try.

memeow
February 1st, 2015, 02:53 PM
You say you've done oil treatments before with no success, but this might be a little different. After shampooing, with damp hair, rub 1 drop of mineral oil between your hands and then run your hands through the ends of your hair. The oil should give you enough slip to gently detangle, and will prevent your hair from getting too stuck together. The mineral oil should come off no problem in the next wash.

I've found this method really useful as long as you don't overdo it with the oil! Madora uses this as her only form of conditioner on her knee-length hair, so it is probably worth trying.

Obsidian
February 1st, 2015, 05:07 PM
I wasn't really after new shampoo but I'll try the coconut milk next time I open a can, it sounds interesting. Not interested in using petroleum products at all, its hard to wash out with my poo bar.
I was hoping for more natural things I could try to help the condition of my hair.

Wildcat Diva
February 1st, 2015, 05:19 PM
Catnip tea soaks?

pamrlyn
February 1st, 2015, 05:47 PM
Hi Obsidian

i'm a newby & sure there are others out there with different experiences & hopefully you will find the right solution for you

I have had trouble with seborrheaic dermatitis as well. and try to make the most of my curls - so feel like I'm kind of in the same boat. I avoid all fragranced products. Paula's' Choice has a conditioner / detangler that I can tolerate just fine. Still, I keep it away from my scalp. Paula's Choice is only available online from her website. She also has a gentle shampoo/body wash with no fragrance.

Several hours before shampooing with my own homemade brand, I use coconut oil on the length & especially the ends of my hair. food grade. my poo is conditioning, but still I use the conditioner & finger-detangle in the shower.

There is a Curly Girl Method with great tips on making your curls springy instead of droopy. Here is a wiki-how link that explains how to do it

http://www.wikihow.com/Follow-the-Curly-Girl-Method-for-Curly-Hair

Scalp massage really helps keep your scalp healthy too.

Pam in NW GA USA

CousinItt
February 1st, 2015, 07:47 PM
An alternative to MO is grapeseed oil - it behaves in a similar fashion, and I have used it with great success.

As to your ends getting tangled - it's there are a few reasons why it my be that way - if they're lacking moisture, damp oiling could help. If they're lacking protein, a gelatin mask is really effective. It's possible it might be build up, despite the vinegar rinses, so clarifying might work. Tbh, I'm not sure how you would tell which treatment is the one you need, other than experimenting - others might know more.

The first thing I usually try is a gelatin mask (avoid if your hair is protein sensitive) Here's a good recipe: science-y hair blog protein treatment (http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/04/gelatin-protein-treatment-recipe-update.html) it washes out with warm water, so it's perfect to use with your shampoo bars.

brickworld13
February 1st, 2015, 08:41 PM
This may seem like a silly impertinent question, but why does the conditioner irritate your SD? There are many members here with the same problem, but ONLY when they get conditioner on or near their scalps. Have you tried keeping the conditioner just on the snarly ends?

Rushli
February 1st, 2015, 09:14 PM
To piggy back on other's comments....

I use a few drops of emu oil on my length and it helps keep my hair slippery.
I also frequently only use conditioner on my length for detangling purposes. (I use poo bars, condition and brush with my tangle teaser, and finish with my avc rinse.)

Saldana
February 1st, 2015, 09:44 PM
I, too, have SD, and have found that if I keep conditioner away from my scalp, I can condition my hair every other wash. I also sometimes use a bit of oil, but keep it away from my scalp as well. So perhaps you could try a bit of oil (jojoba, almond, olive, emu, camellia....whatever your hair likes) on your length, and see if that helps.

spidermom
February 1st, 2015, 10:06 PM
When my seborrheic dermatitis is acting up, what helps is a medicated shampoo. The ketoconazole shampoo that the doctor gave me worked the best, but even the Head and Shoulders eucalyptus itchy scalp therapy helps. Honestly, soap bars sound like a really bad idea because they're alkaline and disrupt the acid mantle that keeps your scalp healthy.

To condition, I bend forward so that my hair falls toward my feet, massage conditioner through, then rinse out. This allows me to condition most of my canopy without getting any conditioner on my scalp.

ClaraBear
February 1st, 2015, 10:47 PM
I would try water only.

Your shampoo bars might be fine if you can condition, but considering you cant condition, I wouldn't strip any of the oil from your hair. Get in the shower, soak your scalp with steamy water, wait a few minutes, scrub gently with the pads of your fingers all over your scalp, rinse over and over a few times, then brush with a boar bristle brush after its dry. You can use a rose-water with a few drops of lavender oil mixed in (or tea tree) and put it in a spray bottle for a nice smell and shine. My hair loved this. I switch to this whenever it is feeling dry or tangly. If you have really oily roots though it may not work out!

ARG
February 1st, 2015, 10:57 PM
I do not have SD, but I believe there is a thread around her somewhere for it (ETA: Here it is (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=54045)), so your question might be best asked there. I personally suggest clarifying, getting away from shampoo bars, and use a medicated shampoo. Mineral oil may help your tangles, and are light enough to not weigh down your wurlies. Also try the LOC method (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=118167), which Lupushka uses and she also has SD.

Good luck!

Obsidian
February 1st, 2015, 11:02 PM
I'll check out the links, thanks. I've tried to use conditioner on only the ends but as soon as I rinse, it spreads everywhere and gets on my scalp. I suppose its because my hair is still pretty short. I'll have to try some grapeseed oil as I don't care for coconut oil that much, makes my hair a bit crunchy if I use too much.

I've read a bit on catnip, it sounds interesting and easy enough to try. I'll have to hunt some down.

I'm not giving up my poo bar. I've spend over a year formulating a very low cleansing bar that doesn't strip the oil off my scalp. If I use it and only it, my SD doesn't act up at all. Two uses of conditioner over a short period of time will cause a flare that I have to use medicine on. As much as I want to have long soft hair, my scalp health is more important.

How do you tell if hair need protein or if its just dry? I've not used a protein treatment since the time I tried a placenta treatment and it made my hair crunchy, that was a while back though when I was still using harsh chemicals on my hair. All that hair has since been cut off.

CousinItt
February 2nd, 2015, 01:15 AM
I'll check out the links, thanks. I've tried to use conditioner on only the ends but as soon as I rinse, it spreads everywhere and gets on my scalp. I suppose its because my hair is still pretty short. I'll have to try some grapeseed oil as I don't care for coconut oil that much, makes my hair a bit crunchy if I use too much.

I've read a bit on catnip, it sounds interesting and easy enough to try. I'll have to hunt some down.

I'm not giving up my poo bar. I've spend over a year formulating a very low cleansing bar that doesn't strip the oil off my scalp. If I use it and only it, my SD doesn't act up at all. Two uses of conditioner over a short period of time will cause a flare that I have to use medicine on. As much as I want to have long soft hair, my scalp health is more important.

How do you tell if hair need protein or if its just dry? I've not used a protein treatment since the time I tried a placenta treatment and it made my hair crunchy, that was a while back though when I was still using harsh chemicals on my hair. All that hair has since been cut off.
Zomg! This will be the third time I've tried to respond. My computer sucks :(

ok, grapeseed is fantastic for sealing in moisture, so good for damp oiling (and skin). If you want slip, olive oil and cold-pressed sesame oil are better suited for that purpose.

if you've used protein before and got crunchy hair, you might be protein sensitive. The science-y hair blog that I linked to before has more info on who should or shouldn't use protein - I will try to post a link in a bit, because my computer is causing me grief and won't let me right now.

out of curiosity, what dilution are you using for your vinegar rinse? If you use a rinse that's too acidic, over time it can cause problems with dryness as well.

CousinItt
February 2nd, 2015, 01:21 AM
Post about protein (http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2013/09/more-about-protein.html)

Obsidian
February 2nd, 2015, 06:29 AM
Thats a great link, thank you! I'm going to try pre wash oiling with olive oil or grapeseed oil. It sounds like I'm a candidate for protein treatment, I'll have to figure what works best fir my fine hair.

I'm not sure of the vinegar dilution, maybe 1/4 tsp in 8 oz of water.

CousinItt
February 2nd, 2015, 09:57 AM
The blog is so good. You can read through all the posts and learn so much about hair care.

Olive oil is the better bet for a pre-wash oiling. If you give it time before washing, it will absorb into your hair shaft and add softness and slip. Grapeseed is more of a post-wash oil, when your hair is still damp, to seal that moisture in and prevent moisture loss in porous hair. It won't really benefit you as a pre-wash oil. If you do a protein treatment, make sure you moisturized your hair well afterwards by damp oiling. You can also use olive oil to do this, just know it will eventually absorb into your hair, instead of staying put on the surface like grapeseed oil.

I don't think that dilution of vinegar is too acidic. Still, maybe miracle water (made with citric acid) is an acidic rinse alternative. I've read that some people's hair can react to vinegar while not to citric acid. Just try one thing at a time though, so you can figure out what's helping or hurting.

spidermom
February 2nd, 2015, 12:13 PM
I'm sure you could condition the ends if you bend forward, with your hair hanging toward your feet. Stay in that position through the rinse.

About oil: a lot of times, people complain that they have to scrub it out, which negates the benefit of the oil. Don't do that. Sometimes as you rinse, you'll feel that the oil is still in there, but it most likely won't look oily once it is dry. If it does, use less oil next time. OH - VERY IMPORTANT - conditioner will often get oil out better than washing. I apply oil to length only, not scalp. I wash the scalp with shampoo, then massage conditioner over my oiled length, let it sit for a few minutes while I finish washing myself, then rinse out.

Panth
February 2nd, 2015, 12:21 PM
1) Seborrheic dermatitis outbreaks are best treated with medicated (ketoconazole) shampoo. Once it's under control, you will need to optimise a SD-maintenance / SD-prevention routine. For most people this involved some combination of the following: avoiding oil treatments (especially on the scalp), avoiding stretching washes (or stretching washes too much), using stronger (e.g. SLS) shampoo, drying hair promptly (with hairdryer on cool if necessary), rinsing sweat out of hair promptly after exercising.

2) Conditioner shouldn't affect your SD as (unless you are CO washing, which you probably shouldn't if you have SD) conditioner should never get on your scalp. It's for ears/shoulders down only.

3) Have you tried clarifying? If nothing is working to moisturise your ends then build-up is a fairly plausible cause.

4) I really do not think you should try a coconut milk-based shampoo or oil treatments or anything else that is going to put oil on your scalp. SD is caused by overgrowth of the malassezia yeast. You do not want to put extra food for yeast onto your head.

spidermom
February 2nd, 2015, 02:46 PM
Thumbs up Panth; this is my informed understanding as well.

Obsidian
February 2nd, 2015, 03:45 PM
I use a sulfa based medicated shampoo when needed, usually only once a month or so. Yes, I clarify every other week or more often as needed but since I don't generally use conditioner or products, its not necessary very often.
I can only go without washing for maybe two days and thats only if I don't get sweaty or oily. I did try co washing recently and while the cone free conditioner wasn't terrible, I did have to stop after a few days when I felt my scalp acting up.

I went ahead and tried a low protein hair mask with avocado, banana, honey, olive oil and almond milk. It felt really icky when wet, I had to break out a jar of petroleum based deep conditioning treatment before I could even think about getting a comb through it. Its nice now that its dry, I do think it helped but the real test will be when I wash but don't condition.

I think for now I'll stick with my poo bar and acv rinse with the occasional oil free/cone free conditioner treatments on the length. I'll try catnip too if I can find some local.

Veridical Angel
August 6th, 2015, 09:20 AM
When I used to use baking soda to wash my hair, it came out very soft.

lapushka
August 6th, 2015, 09:30 AM
When I used to use baking soda to wash my hair, it came out very soft.

BS is very alkaline and not recommended to wash hair with. :)

flickm
August 6th, 2015, 12:02 PM
BS is very alkaline and not recommended to wash hair with. :)

I used to rinse with vinegar after. But the mess and palaver were terrible.