Teach me about silicones please!

[Nadine <3]

I've been cone free for over a year now. While being cone free makes my hair FEEL the best, I still have layers in my hair and despite trimming, S&Ding, protective styles, sleeping on silk, carefully detangling with a wide tooth, seamless comb, and using an oil as a leave in (testing out mineral oil currently-I like it so far!) These layers just will NOT quit splitting...I even bought a new scissors and when that change didn't make a difference I went and had them sharpened...still splitting. Not only that, but I'm getting little white dots up the strand. If I give it a little tug-it breaks. :mad:

Now, up until I joined here I NEVER had this issue, despite always wearing my hair down, daily washing, ripping through tangles, and blow frying it while hanging upside down like a monkey in a tree. You would think the condition of my hair would have improved, and the only thing I can think of that would have done it was I was using coney products really heavily back then. I've tried introducing cones back into my routine but without the blow drying my hair dries flat and stringy. I really think my super fine hair would benefit from the protection of silicones...I just can't figure out what types of silicones to use and when to use them (rinse out? Leave in? I dunno) there's so many brands...I'll go broke before I get to try every single one!

So, fine cone heads, teach me your ways! How do you use this stuff??

[spidermom]

I use a small amount of coney serum very sparingly to the bottom half of my length about once a week or every 2 weeks. For me, a little goes a long way, and the effects last through more than one shampooing. I like CHI Silk Infusion and Renpure Originals Argan oil (which has more silicone than argan oil).

[truepeacenik]

Not so fine, and not that dedicated to cone headism, but I use Kirkland moisture conditioner (Costco, vegan, relatively cheap), which has cones, on the last six to seven inches of hair.
Seem to help the "oh, you are taking care of your hair! Hahahahaha" splitathon my hair does every few months.

[chelsea89ms]

Great thread Nadine! I'm also curious about cones and how everyone uses them, I will definitely be watching this thread!
It would be great to get some extra protection and help my hair retain to moisture. I'm just worried about buildup because I only wash my scalp and cover my length with conditioner. It's so overwhelming how many different cones there are and all the products with different combinations of cones :thud:

[maborosi]

I use water-soluble cones, or cones that are easier to remove without strong shampoos, as needed. They really do help immensely with tangling and with preventing splits for me.

I'm using Pantene's Ice Shine conditioner as a finishing conditioner if I know I'm going to be wearing my hair in a non-protective style. I usually deep condition overnight, then rinse with my coney conditioner and deal with way less issues wearing in down or in a ponytail. The only problem I have with cones is that I have very slippery hair and it is a struggle to wear my hair in a braid or protective style after washing with cones. That's only for me personally, though. Your mileage may vary!

[Panth]

In brief, you simply want to be sure that you're not putting 'cones onto your hair that won't come off in a reasonable order. All 'cones evaporate/wash/wear off eventually, but you don't want to be using a routine that puts 'cones on much, much faster than they come off otherwise you'll get build-up. What will/won't come of depends broadly upon your shampoo/cleanser and the type of 'cones used. Presumably product formulation, the combination of products used, hairtype, amount of damage, water hardness, etc. will also have an effect but those are so YMMV that you'll just have to experiment.

Cleansers:
- sulphate-containing products (SLS, SLES, ALS, ALES - that's in order of harshness) will take off all 'cones, though you may still need to clarify occasionally as the concentration of sulphate cleanser will be variable depending on product
- cocoamdiopropyl betaine is a non-sulphate cleanser that is much less harsh (though a few people are sensitive to it) and it will take off all 'cones
- other non-sulphate cleansers generally won't remove regular 'cones, though depending on routine and formulation you may be able to use them fine, with just the occasional sulphate-based clarifying

'Cones:
- "regular" 'cones (e.g. dimethicone) - will eventually evaporate/wash/wear off, but not quickly or especially easily - generally should be used in combination with sulphates or cocoamidopropyl betaine cleansers to prevent build-up
- amino-'cones (e.g. amodimethicone) - will only stick to hair, not to itself, so are effectively anti-build-up - generally useable with any routine, including CO, although this depends upon formulation and product combinations
- PEG-'cones (generally anything that begins "PEG" and ends "one") - water-soluble, so won't build up - generally useable with any routine, including CO, although this depends upon formulation and product combinations
- there are also others, e.g. dimethicone copolyol, which will evaporate from the hair and so won't build up

So, chose your products wisely. Remember that if something doesn't work you can't blame the ingredient, only the product, unless you consistently find that multiple products don't work and they all have that ingredient. Remember that you will probably still have to clarify (after all, 'cones are not the only thing that builds up), but that much more than monthly is likely excessive and suggests a tweaking of routine might be in order.

Personally, I use sulphate-free, cocoamidopropyl betaine-based shampoos (select ones from the Boot's Naturals line, as a lot of those contain, I think, olefin sulfonate which is technically non-sulphate but is as harsh as SLS). I then use L'Oreal Elvive 5 Restore conditioner, which has PEG-'cones and lots and lots of protein. Works very nicely for me and is better for my scalp (SLS gives me dry scalp skin) and nicer for my hair (I tried my old Pantene Aqua Light with amodimethicone again and finally understood what people mean by hair feeling "plastic-y", though note that I have very, very hard water).

[ZenaZoo]

Not so fine, and not that dedicated to cone headism, but I use Kirkland moisture conditioner (Costco, vegan, relatively cheap), which has cones, on the last six to seven inches of hair.
Seem to help the "oh, you are taking care of your hair! Hahahahaha" splitathon my hair does every few months.

Yay I've found another Kirkland user! Everyone who ever asks "what conditioner do you use" has never heard of it. ��

[Swan Maiden]

This thread is informative. I recently gave in to cones for my daughters hair. She has fine hair but in ringlets. I do not use cones, my main reasons are Im sulphate free and didnt want buildup, and health reasons (bioaccumulation). I just am weirded out by using a coat of silicone on my body. Naturally for these reasons I never used them for my daughters hair. As a last resort, I used some Herbal Essences smooth collection (pink bottle) on her and her dry, tangly hair became smooth and managable and much easier to detangle. I have tried everything alternative for her hair with no lasting success. It gets so dry it almost smells processed and gets crunchy.

Are there any cones that have lower health risks or no animal testing?

[MINAKO]

when i first heard abput this cone controversy thing i was all obver the place trying to figure out the good and bad ones, researched like crazy and kept a list in my purse to be able to tell which ones are water soluble, evaporate and so on during shopping.
but nowadays i really cant be bothered. my hair is pretty much indestructible athough i have a good amount of it being fine.
i judge a conditioner or mask after trying it, see if i like the feel and look of my hair and thats it. probably NOTHING but sulphates would have the ability to affect my hair in a negative way. cones dont dry my hair out, they dont block the effectiveness of any oil i am using and i dont get any stringyness unless i massively overload. i just cant be bothered avoid particular ones anymore just because they are said to be evil.

[cathair]

Cheers Panth :) That's a very succinct explanation, think I am going to save that! :)

Have been trying out a new SLS free shampoo and it's matching conditioner which has dimethicone in it. I was wondering if that would cause me problems, but the shampoo has cocoamdiopropyl betaine high up in the ingredients list, so I guess it will be fine then, if I clarify every now and again which I do anyway.

I suppose it isn't in companies best interests to make shampoos and conditioners that wouldn't work together :)

[luvlonghair75]

Until I joined LHC I never realized how complicated/interesting hair care can be! Lots of important information here! Thanks, ladies!

[DreamSheep]

That's fantastic information Panth - thanks for sharing!
My individual strands are super fine and split a lot easier than I'd like (I could easily S&D every other day...). I do find cones help in not tangling up my hair. I don't wash my hair too frequently, and every now and then I allow shampoo to run down my length, so I don't think I experience build up.

[Winter Fox]

Thanks for your post Panth!

I'm using silicones because I find it the best protection. Because my hair is very fine but I have a lot of them, I would always tear off at least some hair when I brush/comb in the evening no matter how careful I am. Now I started using a serum with argan oil, camelia oil and silicones and it makes it a lot easier for me to get through.
What I really fear is build up but to prevent it I always do an oil treatment before washing. Additional I'm using a shampoo with SLS every third wash or so and make sure the shampoo gets to the lenghts. It works perfectly for me and I'm very happy with the state my hair is in right now.
My normal routine would be:
Pre wash oil treatment - wash - condition (every other wash with a cone conditioner) - when nearly dry cone free leave-in - dabur vatika coconut oil - coney serum

But I was wondering something: Can an acv rinse help to clarify from cones? If so I would like to add it to my routine.

[lapushka]

My conditioners are full of silicones, not only that but I use a silicone conditioner twice after washing with a sulfate/siliconefree shampoo (that's important). Then in goes a silicone leave-in, an alcohol & silicone-free gel and a silicone filled serum. It's all *fine* (my hair's washed weekly).

I had white dots all while growing out a perm. Slather them in silicones and clarify well when you wash, and you'll be just fine - and no need to even trim the white dots till much later.

[Panth]

But I was wondering something: Can an acv rinse help to clarify from cones? If so I would like to add it to my routine.

This is a fairly common myth. ACV rinses do not clarify. Citric acid rinses can chelate (remove mineral build-up) and the use of an acidic rinse (dilute ACV, other vinegar, citric acid, lemon, whatever) after washing can help slow mineral build-up. However, only clarifying shampoos clarify.

Some people claim that dish soap, baking soda and/or regular shampoo with baking soda added can clarify. IMO, it likely merely makes the hair feel "stripped" because all three of those will very, very effectively remove sebum, sweat and oil.

[Nadine <3]

In brief, you simply want to be sure that you're not putting 'cones onto your hair that won't come off in a reasonable order. All 'cones evaporate/wash/wear off eventually, but you don't want to be using a routine that puts 'cones on much, much faster than they come off otherwise you'll get build-up. What will/won't come of depends broadly upon your shampoo/cleanser and the type of 'cones used. Presumably product formulation, the combination of products used, hairtype, amount of damage, water hardness, etc. will also have an effect but those are so YMMV that you'll just have to experiment.

Cleansers:
- sulphate-containing products (SLS, SLES, ALS, ALES - that's in order of harshness) will take off all 'cones, though you may still need to clarify occasionally as the concentration of sulphate cleanser will be variable depending on product
- cocoamdiopropyl betaine is a non-sulphate cleanser that is much less harsh (though a few people are sensitive to it) and it will take off all 'cones
- other non-sulphate cleansers generally won't remove regular 'cones, though depending on routine and formulation you may be able to use them fine, with just the occasional sulphate-based clarifying

'Cones:
- "regular" 'cones (e.g. dimethicone) - will eventually evaporate/wash/wear off, but not quickly or especially easily - generally should be used in combination with sulphates or cocoamidopropyl betaine cleansers to prevent build-up
- amino-'cones (e.g. amodimethicone) - will only stick to hair, not to itself, so are effectively anti-build-up - generally useable with any routine, including CO, although this depends upon formulation and product combinations
- PEG-'cones (generally anything that begins "PEG" and ends "one") - water-soluble, so won't build up - generally useable with any routine, including CO, although this depends upon formulation and product combinations
- there are also others, e.g. dimethicone copolyol, which will evaporate from the hair and so won't build up

So, chose your products wisely. Remember that if something doesn't work you can't blame the ingredient, only the product, unless you consistently find that multiple products don't work and they all have that ingredient. Remember that you will probably still have to clarify (after all, 'cones are not the only thing that builds up), but that much more than monthly is likely excessive and suggests a tweaking of routine might be in order.

Personally, I use sulphate-free, cocoamidopropyl betaine-based shampoos (select ones from the Boot's Naturals line, as a lot of those contain, I think, olefin sulfonate which is technically non-sulphate but is as harsh as SLS). I then use L'Oreal Elvive 5 Restore conditioner, which has PEG-'cones and lots and lots of protein. Works very nicely for me and is better for my scalp (SLS gives me dry scalp skin) and nicer for my hair (I tried my old Pantene Aqua Light with amodimethicone again and finally understood what people mean by hair feeling "plastic-y", though note that I have very, very hard water).

:applause:applause:applause:applause:applause

Thank you! so. Freaking. Much! I've saved this to look back on when I need it. I'm not super worried about build up because I have to use strong sulfates. I like the really simply basic ones, like suave and VO5. Some of the ones with big long lists irritate my scalp. I've tried a few cocoamdiopropyl betaine shampoo's and my scalp was never really very happy with it, so I stick with Suave coconut. I'm happy with that as my shampoo.

Most of the conditioners I've tried had Dimithicone in them, and now I'm seeing it's a pretty heavy duty cone, so maybe that's why my hair felt so weighed down by it, especially after a few washes! I have a garnier fructis conditioner that supposedly has a water soluble cone in it, but my hair never seemed to care for it. After a bit of googling I'm thinking of trying Pantene Moisture renewal conditioner.

Ingredients:
Water, Stearyl Alcohol, Bis-Aminopropyl Dimethicone, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Cetyl Alcohol, Fragrance, Benzyl Alcohol, Disodium Edta, Panthenol, Panthenyl Ethyl Ether, Trisodium Ethylenediamine Disuccinate, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone.

I googled the cone, and it's supposed to stick to hair but not itself, so that's good and none of the other ingredients look to be drying. I've never really picked conditioner based on ingredients before, I feel kinda scholarly hehe I just joined here and hopped on the cones=bad/damage train. I'm getting off. :demon:

[Winter Fox]

This is a fairly common myth. ACV rinses do not clarify. Citric acid rinses can chelate (remove mineral build-up) and the use of an acidic rinse (dilute ACV, other vinegar, citric acid, lemon, whatever) after washing can help slow mineral build-up. However, only clarifying shampoos clarify.

Some people claim that dish soap, baking soda and/or regular shampoo with baking soda added can clarify. IMO, it likely merely makes the hair feel "stripped" because all three of those will very, very effectively remove sebum, sweat and oil.

Thank you for enlightening me Panth!

[MJ1972]

Thanks for your massive post, Panth! Very enlightening. I've bookmarked it.

Nadine, like yourself, I had a serious split-end problem until very recently. No matter what hair-care routine I tried, I had LOTS of split ends and white dots. It was rather maddening. However, I made a few radical changes last month, and I've noticed with interest that my hair is almost split-free now, despite the fact that it's been half a year since my last cut. Clearly I must be doing something right...

The main lesson I've learned over the last few months is that my thin, fine hair HATES leave-ins of any kind. I tried salon-bought anti-split creams, mineral oil, jojoba oil, apple cider vinegar, conditioner, aloe vera gel, you name it. LOG and apple cider vinegar left my hair looking glorious, but did nothing to stop the splits. So I decided to forgo the leave-ins for a while and try pre-poo deep-conditioning treatments instead. And lo and behold, it seems to be working! My treatment du jour is extra-virgin olive oil, which I apply to my hair once a week, leave in for two hours, then rinse out with diluted conditioner. So far, the results have been excellent, so I'm going to keep on doing this for a while and see how my ends go...

I've also recently added a conditioner with hydrolysed keratin to my routine. It contains dimethicone, which I'm not crazy about, but the protein seems to be doing good things for my hair. I'm planning on using this conditioner once a week. The rest of the time, I'll continue to wash my hair with a cone-free conditioner, plus the odd clarifying shampooing every once in a while.

[Doreen]

Something that has worked well for me is to brush my hair very well and apply a cone conditioner to my dry hair before getting into the shower, and then shampooing and using a cone-free conditioner afterwards. This helped a lot with preventing it from tangling when I got it wet, which is where a lot of my split ends were coming from. (When the wet tangles would dry it was basically impossible to get them out without at least a little damage, and since it was happening every time it started to show.) The little white dots in the middle of the strand that you mention are what I had as a result of the wet tangles ):
I hope this helps at least a little!

[RachelRose]

I have the worst of my damage from my cone free stage :/ I now use renpure originals argan oil shampoo amd condish . I believe spidermom made a thread on it before . It is amazing amd only has amodimethicone in it I think. I haven't noticed any build up. So may try something like that to start . I too use mineral oil amd I still do after using the cones amd haven't had any issues . Good luck :)

[Panth]

:applause:applause:applause:applause:applause

Thank you! so. Freaking. Much! I've saved this to look back on when I need it. I'm not super worried about build up because I have to use strong sulfates. I like the really simply basic ones, like suave and VO5. Some of the ones with big long lists irritate my scalp. I've tried a few cocoamdiopropyl betaine shampoo's and my scalp was never really very happy with it, so I stick with Suave coconut. I'm happy with that as my shampoo.

Most of the conditioners I've tried had Dimithicone in them, and now I'm seeing it's a pretty heavy duty cone, so maybe that's why my hair felt so weighed down by it, especially after a few washes! I have a garnier fructis conditioner that supposedly has a water soluble cone in it, but my hair never seemed to care for it. After a bit of googling I'm thinking of trying Pantene Moisture renewal conditioner.

Ingredients:
Water, Stearyl Alcohol, Bis-Aminopropyl Dimethicone, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Cetyl Alcohol, Fragrance, Benzyl Alcohol, Disodium Edta, Panthenol, Panthenyl Ethyl Ether, Trisodium Ethylenediamine Disuccinate, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone.

I googled the cone, and it's supposed to stick to hair but not itself, so that's good and none of the other ingredients look to be drying. I've never really picked conditioner based on ingredients before, I feel kinda scholarly hehe I just joined here and hopped on the cones=bad/damage train. I'm getting off. :demon:

Glad you found it helpful.

Re. the conditioner you listed ingredients for - the panthenol is a patch-repair ingredient and often good for fine haired people. I hope it works for you. :flower:

[chelsea89ms]

Hey, I found this site (http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/browse.php?atatime=50&notold=1&containing=700387&showmore=products&start=0&order=webscore+INC) that might be helpful, you can search products by ingredients and it will also tell you what all the other ingredients are in the conditioner.

[lapushka]

Hey, I found this site (http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/browse.php?atatime=50¬old=1&containing=700387&showmore=products&start=0&order=webscore+INC) that might be helpful, you can search products by ingredients and it will also tell you what all the other ingredients are in the conditioner.

Most of my products are a "4". Not that bad. Not that I'm going to replace my stash because of the "say-so" of one website, not even two sites, or three, or four. If there is really something dead-seriously wrong with a product, it'll be big news.

[MINAKO]

well, i would consider PPD big news because people got severlyharmed by it and even died. stilits being used in plenty of box colors and nobody makes a huge fuzz about it... because money!

checking on silicones because of health concerns doesnt make any sense tho, most of them if not all are potentially less irritating then any natural oil. there is a eason why mineral oil is the first choice to be used on a newborn baby.

[meteor]

^ I absolutely agree. :agree:
And silicone gels/creams are used on serious burns if you go to a hospital... (e.g. Silicones in the rehabilitation of burns: a review and overview: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11311512)
Safety is not a concern with silicones on hair, but texture/curl and build-up may be.

[chelsea89ms]

Oh, I didn't even realize that the sites purpose is to point out unsafe chemicals.. I just find it difficult to search out a product with a specific cone, of course I'm probably doing it the hard way by googling ingredients to different products :cool:

[chelsea89ms]

Hey Nadine, I hope the cones are working out for you!

I picked up three different conditioners, pantene ice, herbal essences moroccan and garnier sleek and shine also a coney serum to try on my daughters hair. I was unsure which co will work best with her hair or mine..

Her hair is straight (1b or c) and very very very fine, I can't oil her hair without putting too much. Hopefully the cones will help her hair to get out of shoulder length, sweet thing has problems with splits too. My MIL thinks I'm insane for not using hairspray and S&Ding her hair instead of just cutting it short. But my daughter doesn't want her hair short, she wants to let it grow and it's her hair after all.

[Swan Maiden]

I feel like I have done a disservice to my daughters hair, just because I dont use cones so I didnt use them on her hair. I bought some Mizani curl shampoo/conditioner/leave in for her and her hair is looking much better.