View Full Version : Traveling damage?
Majorane
January 13th, 2015, 04:32 AM
Wise hivemind of the LHC, I need your advice.
I have fine hair and it has a fair bit of damage. Most of it is from
- mis-use of hairties (now discontinued)
- a rather gung-ho dip-dye bleach job, almost cut out
- too much downtime, has been fixed
- snaggly earrings
- my work clothing, that gives horrid nape rats (silky scarves do not help)
- my hair being just very delicate and prone to splits and dots
The first three causes have been worked on and the latter three I'm not going to change.
Also, I have maintaining at around APL for THREE YEARS to grow out previous damage. So, I am absolutely fed up with being at APL growing out damage. AND I STILL HAVE SPLITS.
Current situation: I am at BSL (YEUY) and I love finally getting sort of long hair! But, upon closer inspection, I have a lot of small splits, dots, tapers, and sad hairs. And they aren't just at my ends. Some ends are great and some hairs around my ears are split and sad.
So, now I am torn (muwaaaah :wail: ) between:
1) growing, growing, growing, and ignore the damage. Oh, by the way, people say OMG YOUR HAIR SO SHINY. The damage is not very visible.
2) Trimtrimtrim all the damage out and thus AGAIN not have progress. In hopes of improving my ends. But I have splits all over, so I'll either have to wait years to be split free or just never be split free.
3) Go bald/buzz/bob/shoulder and start over. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
Soooo. Ideally I want to growgrowgrowtheboat because I have been in between APL and BSL long enough. But, the splits! People say they can travel up the hair shaft. I don't want that, either. But a lot of the splits are at my end, they never are very far up, so either they travel up but break off most of the sad splitted parts, or they just split and then stay politely in place. Is that possible? I mean, do splits ALWAYS travel up the hair shaft? Maybe they don't with me. Maybe they'll just happily stay with the ends. My hair is not brittle or very dry, except for the sad ends, so there is that. And it looks nice, still, especially now I'm back on the cone wagon.
I really can't make up my mind as what to do. Initially I wanted to not cut the entire 2015, or at least until +- august so I'd have a year of growth. But since everyone always say "kill the splits or you'll grow for nothing" I am now starting to doubt that strategy.
Thoughts? Maybe someone here has started growing without killing all the splits and can say 'nah, they never travelled much with me'? Ideas? I love my hair, but the splits are SO discouraging :(
Johannah
January 13th, 2015, 04:38 AM
If this would happen to me, I'd maybe cut off 0.5" or 1" to get rid of splits at the ends, but definitely HEAVY S&D once a week and more if that would be possible. If you have fine hair, your hair splits easily but that doesn't mean your hair is unhealthy so IMO there's no need to keep on cutting. Do you do deep treatments/conditioning?
Majorane
January 13th, 2015, 04:45 AM
If this would happen to me, I'd maybe cut off 0.5" or 1" to get rid of splits at the ends, but definitely HEAVY S&D once a week and more if that would be possible. If you have fine hair, your hair splits easily but that doesn't mean your hair is unhealthy so IMO there's no need to keep on cutting. Do you do deep treatments/conditioning?
Hiya,
Eh, deep conditioning and masks and such, I kinda stopped doing those. I either never saw results, or gave me greasies. My hair does not like most products at all. Oils: no. Protein: no. Since the last time I opened a topic of "halpmyhair" (in which you gave me a LOT of information, for which, again many thanks) I have tried a lot of different products. I just trew out at least 10 different bottles of stuff that I have tried since then, and none seemed to do anything for my hair. They only made it greasier. My hair likes to be left alone, mostly, I think. If I give it something with a lot of dimethicone, it doesn't snag, except for that: SMT, bananamasks, soy-sauce, gelatin, keratine, protein of whatever flavour: Nope. Nopenope. Go away, my hair says.
As for the small trim: :wail: I could do that but in a month, my fresh ends are then split-ridden again :wail: That is why I have such slow progress: I keep cutting out the damage, but then It just doesnt grow! :wail:
Majorane
January 13th, 2015, 04:47 AM
Also, strangely I got the most support for this problem IRL from my uncle. He is around 50, has beautiful long grey curls, and a lot of mechanical damage from his work, so we complained about our splits last weekend over a cup of coffee. My family mai be weird, but at least they "get" hairproblems.
StellaKatherine
January 13th, 2015, 04:55 AM
Have you tried only oiling, conditioning the parts which do get the white dots and splits ? I personally oil and condition mostly only the ends and only rarely go higher than few inches from the ends and up. Wish I could think of something that could help you :(
AmberJewel
January 13th, 2015, 05:01 AM
I have the same problems with my fine hair. It splits if I so much as breathe, and tangles if it's down for more than a few minutes. Even braids aren't that protective since I can see all the little hairs poking out and getting split down the length, not to mention what happens to the tassel! I've found it's best to keep it up in a bun, braided or otherwise, during the day, and at night it's usually braided and stuffed in a cap. I occasionally oil my ends for the extra little bit of protection, but I don't know if it makes a huge difference. Basically, keep it up, GENTLE detangling every morning, and S&D sessions whenever you think best. Yesterday I was finally forced to trim just over half an inch though. Oh the joys of fine hair!
Majorane
January 13th, 2015, 05:03 AM
Have you tried only oiling, conditioning the parts which do get the white dots and splits ? I personally oil and condition mostly only the ends and only rarely go higher than few inches from the ends and up. Wish I could think of something that could help you :(
Yeah, I've tried. GREASYYYYY frying pan hair! No matter how little oil I use. And then it gets snaggly because of the oil weighing it down, and dust gets in it, and just generally yuck. My hairs are very thin and smooth, they just don't 'eat' anything and don't have the body to wear a coat of oil. Well, except silicone oil.
The good thing is I now have a full cupboard of cool vinegar and novelty oils, so whenever a recipe asks for "one spoon of avodaco oil and a dash of coconut and cold presses whathaveyou oil" I'm allll ready and prepared 8)
Majorane
January 13th, 2015, 05:06 AM
I have the same problems with my fine hair. It splits if I so much as breathe, and tangles if it's down for more than a few minutes. Even braids aren't that protective since I can see all the little hairs poking out and getting split down the length, not to mention what happens to the tassel! I've found it's best to keep it up in a bun, braided or otherwise, during the day, and at night it's usually braided and stuffed in a cap. I occasionally oil my ends for the extra little bit of protection, but I don't know if it makes a huge difference. Basically, keep it up, GENTLE detangling every morning, and S&D sessions whenever you think best. Yesterday I was finally forced to trim just over half an inch though. Oh the joys of fine hair!
Aahh, yes, this. Oh, the braidscragglies and the sad tassels! And it flies EVERYWHERE and gets stuck in everything, but when you try to gently dislodge a stray hair *snap* it goes and bye bye brave keratin strand that I have been working on for years. *sad trombone*
On the other hand, we do have silky soft hair :D As soon as I pet my own hair, it gets greasy, but hey, it does feel soft.
Johannah
January 13th, 2015, 06:13 AM
And oil as a pre-poo? Have you tried that?
*hug* :grouphug:
Nini
January 13th, 2015, 06:27 AM
Stick with S&D'ing for a while and see what happens. That's what I would do.
Upside Down
January 13th, 2015, 06:38 AM
Hm, I grew with damage and slowly trimmed. I never had patience with S&D.
The splits travelled but not far... When I was at waist there was a couple of inches of really dry and tangly ends but only a few splits. This was manageable with some TLC.
However, my hair is not all that fine, more medium.
meteor
January 13th, 2015, 06:40 AM
Wise hivemind of the LHC, I need your advice.
I have fine hair and it has a fair bit of damage. Most of it is from
- mis-use of hairties (now discontinued)
- a rather gung-ho dip-dye bleach job, almost cut out
- too much downtime, has been fixed
- snaggly earrings
- my work clothing, that gives horrid nape rats (silky scarves do not help)
- my hair being just very delicate and prone to splits and dots
The first three causes have been worked on and the latter three I'm not going to change.
Also, I have maintaining at around APL for THREE YEARS to grow out previous damage. So, I am absolutely fed up with being at APL growing out damage. AND I STILL HAVE SPLITS.
Current situation: I am at BSL (YEUY) and I love finally getting sort of long hair! But, upon closer inspection, I have a lot of small splits, dots, tapers, and sad hairs. And they aren't just at my ends. Some ends are great and some hairs around my ears are split and sad.
So, now I am torn (muwaaaah :wail: ) between:
1) growing, growing, growing, and ignore the damage. Oh, by the way, people say OMG YOUR HAIR SO SHINY. The damage is not very visible.
2) Trimtrimtrim all the damage out and thus AGAIN not have progress. In hopes of improving my ends. But I have splits all over, so I'll either have to wait years to be split free or just never be split free.
3) Go bald/buzz/bob/shoulder and start over. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
Soooo. Ideally I want to growgrowgrowtheboat because I have been in between APL and BSL long enough. But, the splits! People say they can travel up the hair shaft. I don't want that, either. But a lot of the splits are at my end, they never are very far up, so either they travel up but break off most of the sad splitted parts, or they just split and then stay politely in place. Is that possible? I mean, do splits ALWAYS travel up the hair shaft? Maybe they don't with me. Maybe they'll just happily stay with the ends. My hair is not brittle or very dry, except for the sad ends, so there is that. And it looks nice, still, especially now I'm back on the cone wagon.
I really can't make up my mind as what to do. Initially I wanted to not cut the entire 2015, or at least until +- august so I'd have a year of growth. But since everyone always say "kill the splits or you'll grow for nothing" I am now starting to doubt that strategy.
Thoughts? Maybe someone here has started growing without killing all the splits and can say 'nah, they never travelled much with me'? Ideas? I love my hair, but the splits are SO discouraging :(
Yay, dearest Majorane! So great to see you back on TLHC! :D
I think that splits don't have to travel up, otherwise most folks who never cut hair (e.g. for cultural reasons) would go practically bald from never trimming/S&Ding and damage traveling upwards unchecked.
From personal experience, my splits didn't travel up on my hair, they would just stay put until the next blow (mechanical or chemical), and many other people report the same, but I know this is very individual. And fine hair is more prone to splitting easily, and F hair type is possibly more likely to see damage traveling up. Since you want to grow it out further, why not join the "No trimming 2015" challenge (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=126267) while regularly S&Ding those splits? :)
Realistically, since you have some old bleach damage, it's normal to see many split ends on fine, silky hair. Don't despair, but do cut out all possible offenders. So, for example, you mention splits/damage around your ears and yet you wear snaggly earrings - I'd suggest replacing them with some non-snaggly earrings or even not wearing them for a while?
Also, do you sleep on silk/satin? If not, I strongly recommend getting a silky pillowcase and/or sleep cap to protect your hair.
And be very, very mindful of how you comb and brush (if you even need it). If you do brush (not all people can!), make sure it's the right brush for your hair and your technique is correct and, of course, that your hair is already detangled. I'd caution against excessive combing/brushing and manipulation. I recommend the lowest manipulation updos too - e.g. LWB, braided bun.
As for the small trim: :wail: I could do that but in a month, my fresh ends are then split-ridden again :wail: That is why I have such slow progress: I keep cutting out the damage, but then It just doesnt grow! :wail:
Have you checked your S&D scissors? If it feels like you are getting suspiciously many splits post-trims, then there's a good chance that they are dull and cause more splits long-term. Make sure they are super-sharp and used on hair and hair only. Also, when you S&D, it's important to cut absolutely perpendicular to hair growth in a clean straight line.
Eh, deep conditioning and masks and such, I kinda stopped doing those. I either never saw results, or gave me greasies. My hair does not like most products at all. Oils: no. Protein: no. Since the last time I opened a topic of "halpmyhair" (in which you gave me a LOT of information, for which, again many thanks) I have tried a lot of different products. I just trew out at least 10 different bottles of stuff that I have tried since then, and none seemed to do anything for my hair. They only made it greasier. My hair likes to be left alone, mostly, I think. If I give it something with a lot of dimethicone, it doesn't snag, except for that: SMT, bananamasks, soy-sauce, gelatin, keratine, protein of whatever flavour: Nope. Nopenope. Go away, my hair says.
Yeah, I've tried. GREASYYYYY frying pan hair! No matter how little oil I use. And then it gets snaggly because of the oil weighing it down, and dust gets in it, and just generally yuck. My hairs are very thin and smooth, they just don't 'eat' anything and don't have the body to wear a coat of oil. Well, except silicone oil.
So your hair loves silicones? Then use them, girl! ;) I bet if you reintroduce some silicone serums, you'll see a difference! That protective coat and slip might be just the thing you need to get your hair from splitting as you are growing to greater lengths.
Oh, and since your ends suffered from bleach, I'm even more confident suggesting cones: they are pretty useful for growing long hair, especially if there is previous damage to be "buffered" and have added slip.
I don't know if I've seen the previous post you mentioned (maybe I missed it), but here is something that could be of help:
Conditioning ingredients that penetrate hair (virgin vs. damaged): http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/10/deep-conditioning-what-ingredients-in.html
Porous ends need more intense conditioning than the rest of hair, so I would suggest pre-poo oiling, since you don't like oils as leave-in. Here is a great post on how to make pre-poo oils work for almost any hair: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/03/oil-pre-shampoo-or-pre-wash.html
Also, you say that deep conditioning doesn't do much for you, but it may be that the results are cumulative. I'd say, experiment with doing deep conditioning treatments for a month or two and see if your split ends are developing less often than before. (And yes, there is an LHC thread for that too! - http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=127171)
I really hope more fineys will jump on this thread with their tips and tricks! :D There are certainly effective ways of keeping splits at bay even on the finest of hair!
Best of luck and happy growing, Majorane! :cheer:
MiamiPineapple
January 13th, 2015, 06:46 AM
I grew out very damaged hair to almost hip. I only trimmed about .5 inches a year with a few micro trims. I think the key is to wear it up in a bun until you reach your goal. This not only better for your hair but it keeps you from inspecting for splits all day which you tend to do when your hair is down. When I wear my hair down, I always think after a few days "gosh I need a trim" but when it's up I don't notice any of it. You CAN grow out damage and grow your hair long without continuing to chop it all off. The secret for me was wearing it up, CO washing, little bit of oil on the ends. Good luck!
MeowScat
January 13th, 2015, 07:08 AM
I've been at your stage many times, APL forever, then BSL, then back to APL. Ugh, frustrating, hated it. My best advice is to put the scissors down and put your hair up 24 / 7. I know it sounds like, "well, no duh", but it really works.
I've been wearing mine in a bun on top of my head for a few years and it has grown like a weed. I detangle it in the bent at waist, hair hanging in front of me position and I rebun it in that position. It's held with one stick and it doesn't rub on the pillow or couch, plus it's not in the way, ever. When I wear buns on the back of my head, I get so many tangles. Plus, I don't have that annoying bun bump to rest on when I drive or watch TV.
I also don't look at the length in the mirror often. So, when I do look at it, it's a pleasant surprise instead of a daily let down.
I've never noticed splits traveling all the way up, but I've had some bad splits go up 5 inches or so. Wear it down to air dry and to S & D. Other than that, put it up in a bun...and don't trim for, minimum, a year. It can be a hard habit to break. Your hair is going to split, it'll just split a lot less if it's contained.
Read the No Trim Challenge thread for encouragement, too.
I wish you oodles and oodles of patience and I hope you keep us updated. I always enjoy your posts so much. :blossom:
Annalouise
January 13th, 2015, 08:51 AM
I agree with others here that you should set a goal length like maybe mid back or somewhere that would make you feel better about gaining length. And then trim to improve the condition of your hair once you reach a goal for yourself. Otherwise you will likely get discouraged and give up.
Stellaaa
January 13th, 2015, 09:10 AM
When I saw the title of the thread I thought it was about damage from planes, trains and automobiles - which I have experienced.
IME, splits can travel, and you might find one or two hairs split from end to tip. One or two, out of what 100,000? When I was in university I did a LOT of microscope work. WHen I got bored with looking at my prof's rock thin sections I would stick random things under the 'scope, including my hair. Saw some scary things!!
I'll add my voice to the chorus here telling you to put it up and forget about it. If you wear glasses, take them off before you inspect your hair :lol: That's what I do. And 'cones. Fear not the 'cones.
Majorane
January 13th, 2015, 10:06 AM
And oil as a pre-poo? Have you tried that?
Well, yes, although I admit: not regulairly. I haven't seen much benefits, but I was pretty discouraged with all the this-doesn't-work-eithers, so I might have thrown in the pre-poo towel too early. I shall be a better girl, and try pre-pooing :)
Hm, I grew with damage and slowly trimmed. I never had patience with S&D.
The splits travelled but not far... When I was at waist there was a couple of inches of really dry and tangly ends but only a few splits. This was manageable with some TLC.
However, my hair is not all that fine, more medium. Well, I would be fine with gettong at waist and then having to chop off a few cm, I could survice that! Glad to know you could still grow with damage :flower:
[QUOTE=meteor;2917729]Yay, dearest Majorane! So great to see you back on TLHC! :D Hey, I wasn't under my rock for that long...? Hug to you too, sweet Meteor!
I think that splits don't have to travel up, otherwise most folks who never cut hair (e.g. for cultural reasons) would go practically bald from never trimming/S&Ding and damage traveling upwards unchecked.
From personal experience, my splits didn't travel up on my hair, they would just stay put until the next blow (mechanical or chemical), and many other people report the same, but I know this is very individual. And fine hair is more prone to splitting easily, and F hair type is possibly more likely to see damage traveling up. Since you want to grow it out further, why not join the "No trimming 2015" challenge (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=126267) while regularly S&Ding those splits? :) I was actually thinking of doing that, and then see what needs to be whacked off at the end of 2015. But, I read so often that people say 'cut out that damage! Splits do travel!'. Noe, normally I just do my own thing, but since that obviously isn't working quite like I want it too, I now go by the Moral Compass of LHC.... but it's sometimes very contradictionary, or against what I observe. Like travelling splits! Minen't seem to travel, but.... I'm a hair noob.
Realistically, since you have some old bleach damage, it's normal to see many split ends on fine, silky hair. Don't despair, but do cut out all possible offenders. So, for example, you mention splits/damage around your ears and yet you wear snaggly earrings - I'd suggest replacing them with some non-snaggly earrings or even not wearing them for a while? Yeah no wait, poor choice of words. I have tossed out all the really snavgy ones. What I mean is that my hair sometimes snags on almost all kinds of earrings. Even the small pearl ones for instance, that lay close to my ear. It's because my hair is fine and feisty. You are right in saying I could prevent damage around the ear area if I sopped wearing earrings, but... no. I don't want to live without my earrings, I love my hair but I love my earrings too. *shame*
Also, do you sleep on silk/satin? If not, I strongly recommend getting a silky pillowcase and/or sleep cap to protect your hair.
And be very, very mindful of how you comb and brush (if you even need it). If you do brush (not all people can!), make sure it's the right brush for your hair and your technique is correct and, of course, that your hair is already detangled. I'd caution against excessive combing/brushing and manipulation. I recommend the lowest manipulation updos too - e.g. LWB, braided bun.
Guilty. I am a good comber (as in, I comb very little and veeeery gently with my marvellous EiA combs) but I bun too often and I don't always use my satin pilowcase... I do sleep with a high bun so only my nape gets a beating while sleeping, and those are fried anyway. I should really get another sati pillowcase. Again, shame.
Have you checked your S&D scissors? If it feels like you are getting suspiciously many splits post-trims, then there's a good chance that they are dull and cause more splits long-term. Make sure they are super-sharp and used on hair and hair only. Also, when you S&D, it's important to cut absolutely perpendicular to hair growth in a clean straight line.
Muha! Something I do right! Muha.
So your hair loves silicones? Then use them, girl! ;) I bet if you reintroduce some silicone serums, you'll see a difference! That protective coat and slip might be just the thing you need to get your hair from splitting as you are growing to greater lengths.
Oh, and since your ends suffered from bleach, I'm even more confident suggesting cones: they are pretty useful for growing long hair, especially if there is previous damage to be "buffered" and have added slip.
I don't know if I've seen the previous post you mentioned (maybe I missed it), but here is something that could be of help:
Conditioning ingredients that penetrate hair (virgin vs. damaged): http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/10/deep-conditioning-what-ingredients-in.html
Porous ends need more intense conditioning than the rest of hair, so I would suggest pre-poo oiling, since you don't like oils as leave-in. Here is a great post on how to make pre-poo oils work for almost any hair: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/03/oil-pre-shampoo-or-pre-wash.html
Also, you say that deep conditioning doesn't do much for you, but it may be that the results are cumulative. I'd say, experiment with doing deep conditioning treatments for a month or two and see if your split ends are developing less often than before. (And yes, there is an LHC thread for that too! - http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=127171)
I really hope more fineys will jump on this thread with their tips and tricks! :D There are certainly effective ways of keeping splits at bay even on the finest of hair!
Best of luck and happy growing, Majorane! :cheer: Is there anything you don't know? Do you have all these pages bookmarked? I have food for reading for at least a week! Thanks, Meteor, you are a wealth of information as always. I have indeed given up on the no-cone and no-SLS thing, it just does not work! Cones are great.
I grew out very damaged hair to almost hip. :cheer:
I only trimmed about .5 inches a year with a few micro trims. I think the key is to wear it up in a bun until you reach your goal. This not only better for your hair but it keeps you from inspecting for splits all day which you tend to do when your hair is down.Ehm...
When I wear my hair down, I always think after a few days "gosh I need a trim" but when it's up I don't notice any of it. You CAN grow out damage and grow your hair long without continuing to chop it all off. The secret for me was wearing it up, CO washing, little bit of oil on the ends. Good luck! Thank you! Indeed, the more I wear it down the more I get discouraged with the damage. Especially after a few days when I need a wash, I get all cranky at th splits. Le sigh...
(end of part 1....)
Majorane
January 13th, 2015, 10:07 AM
Part 2!
I've been at your stage many times, APL forever, then BSL, then back to APL. Ugh, frustrating, hated it. My best advice is to put the scissors down and put your hair up 24 / 7. I know it sounds like, "well, no duh", but it really works. Well I am very glad I'm not the only one that got suck in the APL-BSL abyss! It's not that my hair doesn't grow. It grows just fine, but I keep wanting to have it perfect before I continue and it doesn't get better!
I've been wearing mine in a bun on top of my head for a few years and it has grown like a weed. I detangle it in the bent at waist, hair hanging in front of me position and I rebun it in that position. It's held with one stick and it doesn't rub on the pillow or couch, plus it's not in the way, ever. When I wear buns on the back of my head, I get so many tangles. Plus, I don't have that annoying bun bump to rest on when I drive or watch TV.
I also don't look at the length in the mirror often. So, when I do look at it, it's a pleasant surprise instead of a daily let down.
I've never noticed splits traveling all the way up, but I've had some bad splits go up 5 inches or so. Wear it down to air dry and to S & D. Other than that, put it up in a bun...and don't trim for, minimum, a year. It can be a hard habit to break. Your hair is going to split, it'll just split a lot less if it's contained.
Read the No Trim Challenge thread for encouragement, too.
I wish you oodles and oodles of patience and I hope you keep us updated. I always enjoy your posts so much. :blossom: Oh, wow, thank you very much for your kind words! :flowers: You seem to be coming from th same place I am now, yu say a lot of things I habitually do that I shouldn't. Especially the trimming. I' not scissor happy at all any more, but it IS hard to say no, no trims, even though the ends are dry and it has been a half year since the last dusting. So hard! And I should get even better at keping it up, even though I am getting less bad at it.
When I saw the title of the thread I thought it was about damage from planes, trains and automobiles - which I have experienced. Eh, oh, sorry.... If it helps I work with boats, and a lot of damage happens during work, so technically this is sort of eh... wait, no. Sorry for the dissapointment, bt feel fee to rant about travel related damage!
IME, splits can travel, and you might find one or two hairs split from end to tip. One or two, out of what 100,000? When I was in university I did a LOT of microscope work. WHen I got bored with looking at my prof's rock thin sections I would stick random things under the 'scope, including my hair. Saw some scary things!!
I'll add my voice to the chorus here telling you to put it up and forget about it. If you wear glasses, take them off before you inspect your hair :lol: That's what I do. And 'cones. Fear not the 'cones. I fI take off my glasses I can't even SEE my hair, with -8. That's a good thing in a bad thing then, I guess :D
Thanks so much for the in-depth replies, everyone! Very, very much appreciated and all have been read and wil take 'em to heart. I know there are so many threads like this, where basically everyone has to chorus all the old LHC wisdom, and I try not to add to the pool of threads like that but I am at such an AARGH stage right now. And, at least, I'm glad that it's not a given that splits travel and that I HAVE to cut 'em all out. I don't think mine do much more than stay split and be a pain, and I have studied them intensively. But since I have read so often that splits need to go before going down further....
La sighe! I'll have some reading to do. Thanks heaps, dear friends. :)
Johannah
January 13th, 2015, 11:02 AM
Majorane, my hair doesn't like anything as well (SMT, deep conditioning, masks, oils as leave-ins, ...) but it really likes pre-poo oiling when I leave it overnight and use the right oils. Some oils do nothing for my hair (olive oil, almond oil, ...) and others work amazing (avocado oil and macadamia nut oil). Maybe a little trip to De Tuinen might help :p
truepeacenik
January 13th, 2015, 11:11 AM
Glasses can cause damage! Watch those hinges.
Use the coney serums, especially at your nape. If something works, use it.
Piggy always suggested a cone that began with ami-. Seems they wash out better and don't cause the crispy build up.
What I have to do in my destruction zone (TB to classic) is ignore it. It is going to split. I S&D occasionally but have to let it be.
Chromis
January 13th, 2015, 11:12 AM
I say put it up and sail on! Grow, grow, grow!
I had to grow mine out from scratch and pretty much just tried to keep from having unintentional mullet until chin-shoulder-ish and then grew straight on. I didn't trim it up until just past BSL. My strategy, which worked great until knee length, is to grow to an inch or so *past* my next goal. Then trim after that. I did some S&D in between, but not until BSL.
You see the trouble for me and my own misbehaving hair strands, is that BSL is where I start to unlock all the best updos and when my nape hairs and such stay in them the best too. Growing to a little bit beyond your goal spots I found ideal because then you don't have that thing where you reach your goal only to freak out over the hemline and land up cutting back and then being slightly miffed that you aren't at goal anymore.
Nowadays, my hair grows so slow and I had a big shed a few years ago, that it just keeps staying at or near knee as I wait for it to thicken back up....and wait, and wait....I fear I might actually be near terminal! Still, perhaps I will get a mystery growth spurt as others have :D
gwenalyn
January 13th, 2015, 11:59 AM
Also, strangely I got the most support for this problem IRL from my uncle. He is around 50, has beautiful long grey curls, and a lot of mechanical damage from his work, so we complained about our splits last weekend over a cup of coffee. My family mai be weird, but at least they "get" hairproblems.
I love this!
fine hair is more prone to splitting easily, and F hair type is possibly more likely to see damage traveling up.
(derail?) I see this opinion a lot on these boards--does anyone have a good source for it? It's counter to my own experience as a finey. I only get one or two splits at a time, and my ends have been permed and bleached three times over.
Advice: I *do*, however, oil my ends with coconut oil. I know you said products don't seem to work, but I doubled my time between trims using coconut oil. Maybe you could try that? To keep from getting the greasies, make sure to keep the oil only at the ends! Even brushing/finger combing post-oiling will make my roots greasy. Alternatively, oil up the ends overnight right before you shampoo, so nobody sees the greasy hair.
Bambi
January 14th, 2015, 12:25 AM
I have fine hair aswell and the only oil it likes is olive oil and....honey! My hair loves honey, makes it soft and manageable, otherwise I'll vote for the coney serums too. I've been wearing my hair up a lot the last year and now, almost at waist, I seem to be able to keep it in a braid w/o much fuss from my hair(it has a lot of opinions)...hahahaha!
Sometimes it feels like our fine hair is quite "snobby" :).
SkyChild
January 14th, 2015, 03:45 AM
I don't have fine hair but I can't tell the difference between splits and normal hair so I'd go with putting it up more, growing away and just do what you can to get rid of splits (S and D)
I think your splits are just something you may have to live with, so at least keep growing instead of always chopping back which is clearly making you unhappy
Chocowalnut
January 14th, 2015, 05:04 AM
I've been having the same problem. I never used to have a big problem with split ends when my hair was damaged, but now that it's the healthiest it's ever been the ends have been spltting and breaking off like crazy.. it makes no sense. I know how you feel since I just trimmed like an inch a few months ago and have been S&D'ing but the splits and white dots just come back. Good luck and I'd say just keep growing, S&D when you can, and avoid mechanical damage as much as possible.. that's what I'm doing.
lapushka
January 14th, 2015, 08:15 AM
I've not read through this thread completely, but I say micro-trim, and S&D what you can. If there's so much damage that you need to S&D about half of it, don't do it, because you'll get significant thinning (ask me how I know). Rather go for the tiny trim every month then instead. Good luck!
RapunzelKat
January 14th, 2015, 10:44 AM
(derail?) I see this opinion a lot on these boards--does anyone have a good source for it? It's counter to my own experience as a finey. I only get one or two splits at a time, and my ends have been permed and bleached three times over.
Advice: I *do*, however, oil my ends with coconut oil. I know you said products don't seem to work, but I doubled my time between trims using coconut oil. Maybe you could try that? To keep from getting the greasies, make sure to keep the oil only at the ends! Even brushing/finger combing post-oiling will make my roots greasy. Alternatively, oil up the ends overnight right before you shampoo, so nobody sees the greasy hair.
Personal experience and reading others' personal experience on the thin/fine hair thread. :) There's a great deal of variance though - for instance I can BBB but many fine hairs find that this shreds their hair. Are you certain you're a true finey? If so that's some sturdy hair you've got! :D
Majorane, why not split the difference? Trim half your growth monthly or every other month. That way you remove damage and get to gain some length. Personal experience: splits and damage in my hair eventually cause damage to the other, healthy hairs, primarily because of tangles.
gwenalyn
January 14th, 2015, 11:15 AM
Personal experience and reading others' personal experience on the thin/fine hair thread. :) There's a great deal of variance though - for instance I can BBB but many fine hairs find that this shreds their hair. Are you certain you're a true finey? If so that's some sturdy hair you've got! :D
Lucky me? Haha. I'm quite sure I have fine hair, though I've never measured with a micrometer or anything. Hairdressers have always said so, shed hairs are invisible (until enough of them build up on the bathroom floor to look gross, ew). Perhaps not babyfine or anything, just fine. I've read through the entire thin/fine hair thread (yes, it took a long time!). It's possible, because I'm half-Asian, that my cuticle is more sturdy or something. I think I read something a while ago about Asian hair having a different cuticle pattern.
RapunzelKat
January 14th, 2015, 11:31 AM
Lucky me? Haha. I'm quite sure I have fine hair, though I've never measured with a micrometer or anything. Hairdressers have always said so, shed hairs are invisible (until enough of them build up on the bathroom floor to look gross, ew). Perhaps not babyfine or anything, just fine. I've read through the entire thin/fine hair thread (yes, it took a long time!). It's possible, because I'm half-Asian, that my cuticle is more sturdy or something. I think I read something a while ago about Asian hair having a different cuticle pattern.
Yep, that's fine hair all right - I have the same invisibility issue. :)
Interesting about the different cuticle pattern - I'm sure that could make a difference! Makes the hair more resilient than average maybe.
Aaanyways, end derailment:lol:
meteor
January 14th, 2015, 12:18 PM
Yes, gwenalyn, I agree with RapunzelKat that it's mostly based on personal experiences of people reporting splits, which is why I can't state it confidently. :) I wish there was research into this, though.
Also, in case you are interested, I saw this quick post by JC from Natural Haven Bloom where she took a poll about the connection between split ends and fineness of hair: http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2011/09/fine-hair-is-more-prone-to-split-ends.html
Old bleach damage was mentioned in Majorane's original post, and I think that prior damage can be very much responsible for the occurrence of split ends. And I would think that finer hair strands don't tolerate keratin loss (that happens due bleach) as well as thicker hair strands, because the thicker the strand is, the easier it is for it to preserve its structural integrity through damaging practices.
(Sorry for the slight derail, guys. :flower:)
Oh, and I love everybody's recommendations, especially putting hair up and forgetting about it and experimentation with oils on ends and pre-poos. :D
Nadine <3
January 14th, 2015, 12:50 PM
I have this problem too. My fine hair splits and I've come to realize there isn't a whole lot I can do to stop it. I do deep treatments, give it protein, moisture, oiling, combing it out with a wide toothed comb, wearing it in buns and braids to protect it, sleeping on silk...it still splits and I still get white dots and breakage.
I trimmed and maintained at APL for most of 2014. 2015, I'm not trimming it I'm just putting it up and growing. We'll see what I end up with in 2016!
Majorane
January 14th, 2015, 02:09 PM
I love this!
Haha, yeah, my family is pretty cool hair wise. My dad used to be a longhair too, back when he still had hair. And my parents always made sure that no matter how little money there was, we had neat and tidy hair and snazzy haircuts, because important. With henna and no blowdryers. Muha.
(derail?)
Actually, I find the derails very informative, so derail away, and besides I'm the queen of off-topic anyway.
My strategy, which worked great until knee length,
THIS SOUNDS SO IMPRESSIVE like 'oh, well, this used to work until way back, when I reached knee *said in offhand manner* unlike what I have to do now, at 3 inch on the floor' GAH knee length what do you DO with so much hair and how many decennia will it cost me to go near that?! Afgstgkeifhfbsks!! (but sad that you're reaching term, or have shed related stalls :( )
Well, that ole bleach idea definately was a disaster, that's for sure. It just ate my hair. And I used good bleach too, expensive stuff, not the cheapo supermarket croop :( Melted my hair clear away, it did. It's probably indeed because of thinner hair having less keratine, physically. My brother has coarser hair and he used to whiten his hair with the most horrible stuffs and never a meep from him. Although, I'm wondering if I'm a true finey. My hairs are very visible when shed. But they also feel very silky instead of cotton-y, and are fragile and slippery... and I don't know many people with finer hair than I have. (Yeah I touch other peoples hair. But with permission, and usually while giving a head rub. Hair is cool.)
From what I read, the consensus is: Bun it up (okayokay I'm really working on that, especially cutting back the rebunning) and just let the splits live until they get dusted or S&Dt....? Great, I needed to hear that! I AM going to mix some coco oil and olive and argan oil for my prepoo tonight. Maybe also shea? Nah, that's so heavy.
And also, seriously, thanks for all the replies, and the recognitions. I feel like a bit of a failure sometimes for having so many splits (except on the bleach parts, that was calculated.) but it's goor to know that to some extend, it's inevitable with some hairflavours.
Bon, on to the prepoo mixing!! :flower:
Edit:last minute question! Bambi, HOW do you use honey on your hair? And do you nuke it first, against the bleach??
Majorane
January 14th, 2015, 02:23 PM
.....aaaaand half of my pre-poo will be post-poo friday, and cat-poo tomorrow. I was securing my pre-pood braid and smicksmack, along came the fat Bengal, and gone was my leftover oil mix. She doesn't have any split hairs, maybe I should have taken a sip pre-poo too.
Chromis
January 14th, 2015, 02:35 PM
.....aaaaand half of my pre-poo will be post-poo friday, and cat-poo tomorrow. I was securing my pre-pood braid and smicksmack, along came the fat Bengal, and gone was my leftover oil mix. She doesn't have any split hairs, maybe I should have taken a sip pre-poo too.
At least it wasn't post-poo? :couch:
Majorane
January 14th, 2015, 02:36 PM
At least it wasn't post-poo? :couch:
Ooooh, I've had that in my hair, too. Kitten enema gone wrong. A lot worse than quail poop, I'm afraid.....
Bambi
January 14th, 2015, 02:57 PM
Either I put the honey in a mixture with olive oil and conditioner, or I put it directly on my hair, dividing it in sections:). I also use it as a facial mask:). Make sure to get organic honey if you're going to try.
gwenalyn
January 14th, 2015, 03:02 PM
Also, in case you are interested, I saw this quick post by JC from Natural Haven Bloom where she took a poll about the connection between split ends and fineness of hair: http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2011/09/fine-hair-is-more-prone-to-split-ends.html
Ah, interesting! Thanks!
meteor
January 14th, 2015, 03:07 PM
.....aaaaand half of my pre-poo will be post-poo friday, and cat-poo tomorrow. I was securing my pre-pood braid and smicksmack, along came the fat Bengal, and gone was my leftover oil mix. She doesn't have any split hairs, maybe I should have taken a sip pre-poo too.
:spitting: Oh my! I knew that Majorane's thread will get hilarious very quickly! :lol:
And I'll never look at my pre-poo treatments the same way again!:bigeyes:
Chromis
January 14th, 2015, 03:49 PM
Ooooh, I've had that in my hair, too. Kitten enema gone wrong. A lot worse than quail poop, I'm afraid.....
I dunno, I've smelled cats and I've smelled quail...and the quail make up for small size with higher concentration! :tbear:
Zebra Fish
January 15th, 2015, 02:08 AM
Hmmm... I really don't think I can add anything that wasn't already said.
All in all, I'd say wear it up and let i grow till some acceptable length, and then microtrim for some thickness if needed, and then go on. At least, that's me^^
Zebra Fish
January 15th, 2015, 02:35 AM
Ooooh, I've had that in my hair, too. Kitten enema gone wrong. A lot worse than quail poop, I'm afraid.....
I'm not gonna comment on all the stuff in my hair xD
Zebra Fish
January 15th, 2015, 02:37 AM
Either I put the honey in a mixture with olive oil and conditioner, or I put it directly on my hair, dividing it in sections:). I also use it as a facial mask:). Make sure to get organic honey if you're going to try.
Just one question, and I'll stop spamming this thread :o
Raw honey just out of the jar and in your hair? Or? (coz I have no idea how would I do that)
Bambi
January 15th, 2015, 04:34 AM
Just one question, and I'll stop spamming this thread :o
Raw honey just out of the jar and in your hair? Or? (coz I have no idea how would I do that)
Yes, either straight from the jar or from a bowl if i mix it:). It feels quite weird in the start but one gets used to it:D. Just make sure you do it over the sink or it can get messy and sticky, nothing a little water can't fix but it saves you some cleaning hahaha! I feel sorry for my DBF and everything he has to put up with, from facial clay-masks to oils, ACV and honey.....how I love him:).
Zebra Fish
January 17th, 2015, 06:26 AM
Yes, either straight from the jar or from a bowl if i mix it:). It feels quite weird in the start but one gets used to it:D. Just make sure you do it over the sink or it can get messy and sticky, nothing a little water can't fix but it saves you some cleaning hahaha! I feel sorry for my DBF and everything he has to put up with, from facial clay-masks to oils, ACV and honey.....how I love him:).
Trying this atm. I feel all sticky :p Is there a thread for this maybe, so I stop hijacking Majorane's topic?
MissMoppet
January 17th, 2015, 07:35 AM
I don't know if this product will work for you or not, but I swear by Curly Hair Solutions Treatment Shampoo. It was key to getting my hair in shape years ago when I first started using it. I used to have to go for frequent trims to get rid of split ends, but I never have any anymore. Seriously, not ONE. I have random hairs sticking out from my hair length due to new hairs growing in, but not one of them has a split or any kind of damage either. I noticed the change when I started using this treatment shampoo. I think you have to have a certain hair type for it to work though. I was talking to my old hair dresser (the person who came up with it) and he said that it does wonders for some people's hair, and others it doesn't suit. He has a Silk Shampoo which might be better for those for whom the Treatment Shampoo doesn't produce the desired results. I think the Treatment Shampoo works for finer, lower porosity hair types.
My hair does not seem to like oils, too much protein quickly makes it horrible, it gets weighed down easily with product. It loves when I mix some honey into my conditioner, and the Olive Oil Conditioners I use work magic on my hair.
Dunno if this stuff would help you, but it is magic for my hair. :)
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