Long vs. Short Hair

[GreenFairy]

http://youtu.be/IWdsoC7qRZ8

My social science experiment/experience.

[GreenFairy]

i shaved my head bald when i was 20 and was treated much differently. Check out the video to find out.

[lisamira]

Interesting video. :) I've never shaved my head or had really short hair, but I do notice when I had chin length hair I was treated differently than I am now, with midback length hair. Especially with regards to how often people call me pretty or flirt with me.

[lapushka]

When I was a student, I had shaved to half an inch long hair and found that I was treated differently by my professors, especially during a heated debate in class and when discussing this one on one after. My fellow students (long hair, often pale blonde) got sympathy, I got anger. Maybe it's because I never gave in; possibility.

[thefreakingmoon]

I haven't had short-short hair since I was a child, so I can't say I have any personal experience with these differences based on hair, but I am not surprised to hear about it at all. It's a little sad that such a small thing can cause such a big difference in how people are treated, you'd think most places/people would have moved on from making judgements based on hair length of all things.

[lazuliblue]

The straight/gay thing definitely rings true.

[QMacrocarpa]

Interesting, thanks for sharing. My high school short-hair (not shaved) experience was somewhat different. What happened to me is the world at large seemed to read me as male. So, strangers didn't think "dangerous transgressive woman," they thought "boy." I entered a phase of big bold earrings around then, I suppose to try to counteract the "boy-ness", but with only indifferent success. I remember chit-chat with strangers on the city bus more than once ending up at "Are you a boy or a girl?" I grew my hair out as fast as I could.

[GreenFairy]

I'm happy to hear I'm not the only one who has experienced life differently because of looks.

[Pseudoavatar]

Interesting, thanks for sharing. My high school short-hair (not shaved) experience was somewhat different. What happened to me is the world at large seemed to read me as male. So, strangers didn't think "dangerous transgressive woman," they thought "boy." I entered a phase of big bold earrings around then, I suppose to try to counteract the "boy-ness", but with only indifferent success. I remember chit-chat with strangers on the city bus more than once ending up at "Are you a boy or a girl?" I grew my hair out as fast as I could.

That's interesting - I had really short hair when I was 15-16 (almost a pixie cut, except shaped much worse... *sigh*) but to be honest that didn't seem to affect how I got treated, or my social 'status'. Except that one boyfriend probably broke up with me because of it (I had mid-length hair when we started dating and he didn't like it when I cut it short, we broke up 2 weeks later). But interestingly enough, when I had hair extensions right after the short hair (when I was 17) older men started paying much more attention to me than before. But I think the long hair just made me look more mature or something.

I wonder if the difference in attitudes depends on the culture, general style (feminine, or masculine clothes) of the person etc.?

[GreenFairy]

I think once you're past pixie things change drastically. I was treated differently with a pixie compared to now but the difference isn't overwhelming like it is with a shaved head... that's why i made the distinction in the video (miley cyrus vs. sinead o'connor).

[chen bao jun]

Yeah, in our society, short hair means male, long means female. EverY society distinguishes between sexes some way. When little boys wore dresses pre pampers, they were not the same dresses as little girls wore. It may change so that a lot of women wear short hair and men long but there will be some differentiation. Because otherwise people can't tell who they can mate with so that they procreate. You may personally not think about this and most people don't consciously but nature works it out so you do it unconsciously and thus humans survive as a group. Studying it is fine, complaining about it is pointless, it's how it is.

[GreenFairy]

I'm confused. Are you saying I'm complaining about the way I was treated or are you referring to people in general?

I think it's a bit antiquated to think we must follow these rules in gender distinction.

[chen bao jun]

In general, it is pointless to complain about something that will not change. Although it may be fun. I like to complain when the weather is bad, for instance. I can't say I am surprised that it snows in winter in the temperate climes though. I am surprised that anyone finds it surprising that males and females of the mating age, find ways to distinguish male from female in societies where one is forced (because of the weather) to wear clothes.

I don't know who you mean by 'we'. You are perfectly free to make it unclear what gender you are by not following our particular society 's unwritten rules. So is anyone else. However, the vast majority of people are never going to do this, because they want to mate, and most want to reproduce sooner or later. That, in the end, is what it's all about, and that is not going to change, though the means of signaling gender can change, and have changed many times. Calling it antiquated is pointless.

It is seen not only in humans but in 99% of the animal kingdom, too. That would be an interesting comparison. How we do it in different societies at different times, distinguish the sexes, as compared to how animals do it. Comparing a cavaliers hair to a lions mane or a peacocks feathers.

What's really interesting is how in western society over time, such very masculine things as red high heeled shoes or flashy jewelry became feminine. And why it is that Stacy, Shirley, and even now Leslie have become exclusively female names, as well as Brooke, Taylor and others that were either masculine or unisex a generation ago.

In other words, the fact that men and women distinguish themselves from each other is not news, but the ways in which they manage to keep doing it are fascinating.

Hope you get a good grade, five years is a long time to work on one project.

[GreenFairy]

Im not complaining. I'm not sure why you believe this to be true. these are merely observations. I'm fascinated with different human experiences.

& yes, always an A.

[Alun]

Yeah, in our society, short hair means male, long means female. EverY society distinguishes between sexes some way. When little boys wore dresses pre pampers, they were not the same dresses as little girls wore. It may change so that a lot of women wear short hair and men long but there will be some differentiation. Because otherwise people can't tell who they can mate with so that they procreate. You may personally not think about this and most people don't consciously but nature works it out so you do it unconsciously and thus humans survive as a group. Studying it is fine, complaining about it is pointless, it's how it is.

That's a hilarious concept. I think if it really worked that way we would have huge problems.

[chen bao jun]

Im not complaining. I'm not sure why you believe this to be true. these are merely observations. I'm fascinated with different human experiences.

& yes, always an A.

So am I. Humans are fascinating.

I don't know another way to point out that I am not accusing you of complaining sorry t h at is unclear. I thought your video was interesting that's why I bothered to drop in discuss it. With something of another point of view. I don't like to bother to talk to people when we totally have the same opinions, it's boring. Your video got me interested, that's why I popped in but clearly the interest is coming across as criticism. I don't agree with you but it's not meant as critical.

Alun, I don't know what you me a n, sorry.

[JadedByEntropy]

In general, it is pointless to complain about something that will not change. Although it may be fun. I like to complain when the weather is bad, for instance. I can't say I am surprised that it snows in winter in the temperate climes though. I am surprised that anyone finds it surprising that males and females of the mating age, find ways to distinguish male from female in societies where one is forced (because of the weather) to wear clothes.

I don't know who you mean by 'we'. You are perfectly free to make it unclear what gender you are by not following our particular society 's unwritten rules. So is anyone else. However, the vast majority of people are never going to do this, because they want to mate, and most want to reproduce sooner or later. That, in the end, is what it's all about, and that is not going to change, though the means of signaling gender can change, and have changed many times. Calling it antiquated is pointless.

It is seen not only in humans but in 99% of the animal kingdom, too. That would be an interesting comparison. How we do it in different societies at different times, distinguish the sexes, as compared to how animals do it. Comparing a cavaliers hair to a lions mane or a peacocks feathers.

What's really interesting is how in western society over time, such very masculine things as red high heeled shoes or flashy jewelry became feminine. And why it is that Stacy, Shirley, and even now Leslie have become exclusively female names, as well as Brooke, Taylor and others that were either masculine or unisex a generation ago.

In other words, the fact that men and women distinguish themselves from each other is not news, but the ways in which they manage to keep doing it are fascinating.

Hope you get a good grade, five years is a long time to work on one project.

I love that. Children do little more than try to belong to social groups they think are important. The more exaggerated and specific a trait is to a 'woman' the more desperate a young maturing girl is to have the same. Like you said, its a reproductive trait we have. I think there is nothing wrong with it as long as it is safe. I know when i dyed my hair purple in highschool i was trying to stick out [and become part of the punk group haha] and accurately predicted i become unwanted by the blond-chasing-boys...and it worked. They left me alone. I joined the group i wanted to be in. Two points for predictable human behavior.

Now what exactly those boys thought differently about me- i dont know.
We should always treat others with respect...but i was asking for that particular group to shun me. I chose a behavior that had consequences, and believe [maybe archaically, but it is proven true by generations of observations] all behaviors have consequences.

[almorin]

An interesting study along these lines: http://repository.wcsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1072&context=ssj

[chen bao jun]

Thanks JadedByEntropy, I was beginning to think I had totally failed to communicate son that I could be understood (which has been known to happen). This is just how most people are, in my opinion, we are wired that w a y. But of course, being human, not peacocks or lions, we don't operate only on instinct and we can even play with what human instincts are, as you did with your purple hair.

It's interesting to think about. I have a friend who's very conservative about nudity. We are both deeply religious people, but I am not shocked in the same way, spent too uch of my youth in museums with my uncles who are artists looking at every kind of nude from Greek statues to Picasso ladies with geometric body parts with interesting color schemes. .. Anyway. My friend had to have a lot of nurses in her home to help with a sick family member. Most were African, from the west coast area. In these cultures the girls go around with exposed breasts once they mature. My friend was shocked by some of the photos from back home that the nurses showed (especially because they all were also deeply christian, same beliefs, but really different cultural context ). So she asked, why this custom, because she was shocked but isn't a judgmental person, but curious and wants to know. The nurses reply: but how else couple the girls get married? They'd never marry if the young men don't see what they have. Married women apparently start cover it up, to signal not available any more. When she told me about it she was laughing, saying well, it actually does make sense when you think about it, on the most basic level. . I agreed with her that we aren't that far from that, necessarily. We would like to think we are. But it's not so.

I don't think we'll ever change from the most basic level with survival things, good as we might get with disguising them for our self respect or whatever. Mating is a survival thing for a group. We can afford for some of us to not be interested in it. Hey, in my religion, people were honored for their chastity, or not mating for at least a thousand years. However, unless most make a different choice, you end up like the shakers and just leave behind some beautiful chairs. Maybe that's worth it. It was their choice. But most people are going to want to mate, which means making yourself attractive to the opposite sex, which means their knowing that you ARE the opposite sex. I just think the hair thing in our society has been one way this has been done for a couple of centuries. May be changing now, lots of men out there with long hair and women with short, but I do notice that a beard generally goes with the man bun and that earrings and a lot of makeup go with the pixies unless the person is seriously and intentionally trying to l e t others know they are not in the game, for whatever reason, permanently or temporarily. And people look for these cues, I think, it's embarrassing to be rejected so if they think you're signaling disinterest they will leave you a lone. As with purple h a ir...

[almorin]

Interestingly, one of my friends who shaved her head completely (as in, just skin) found that some guys thought she was more attractive, mostly because of what it 'signaled' to them: a rule-bending, interesting, intelligent person who might just have a wee bit of a naughty side. She said she was hit on way more often after just a short amount of hair grew back in (maybe a 1/4").

Having dyed my hair bright red, dark brown/red, dark brown, bleach blonde, and gone with my natural mousy blonde, as well as having it at many lengths during these phases, it was astonishing to me what a difference it made with first impressions. My very long + bright red hair, surprisingly, was better received than the short/bleach blonde. In the former case, the long hair probably seemed more conservative and balanced out the fact that it was bright (fire engine) red, so I may have seemed mysterious and maybe edgy, but feminine. The short/bleach blonde hair seemed to make people think I was a boisterous airhead. Dark brown a-line bob: totally serious.

[almorin]

Albeit, it shouldn't be astonishing that that was the case: socialization, and reaction against socialization, and reaction against immature reactions against socialization :) are inescapable parts of living in human societies.

[almorin]

(not saying that all reactions against socialization are immature, just that some of them are, and some people who've been there and done that will react badly to it)

[chen bao jun]

It often amuses me no end, almorin, the things that younger people assume will shock me, a person who grew up in the 1960s and 1970s, in NYC, both in some very tough slums and going to school in the Village. Just because I now am a middle aged, soft spoken lady with a bun, they stereotype me as someone who has led a sheltered life--can you believe it?

[almorin]

It often amuses me no end, almorin, the things that younger people assume will shock me, a person who grew up in the 1960s and 1970s, in NYC, both in some very tough slums and going to school in the Village. Just because I now am a middle aged, soft spoken lady with a bun, they stereotype me as someone who has led a sheltered life--can you believe it?


Yep :). What's really astonishing is the things a lot of people think will be astonishing/shocking!

[almorin]

And I continue to be astonished that I'm astonished at some of the things people think are astonishing! :)

[GreenFairy]

not shocking in the least, but interesting.