Scalp issues and sulfate shampoo vs natural alternatives

[chelsea89ms]

Hi, so I have been dealing with scalp issues for a wile now but recently it has become worse

I haven't used sulfate shampoo since I found lhc, my hair was very damaged then. I would S&C daily, heat style at least 5x a week, use dyes monthly and detangle with a plastic tip brush (not gently) :shake: of course now it's obvious why hair wouldn't grow past shoulder.

For 2-3 years (after finding lhc) I co washed and my hair showed lots of improvement( I also stoped all of my bad habits and started using oils on my ends). However my scalp was always dry and itchy and eventually I got flakes, so I clarified and started using poo bars. This worked fantastically and I continued using them until a few months ago. I have always had a dry itchy scalp and stretching washes seamed to help so I experimented with water only, for almost a month...My hair was lovely however it made my scalp very angry. It is very itchy, flakey, irritated and sore not to mention I have some painful scalp acne(gross I know), the only time I ever had scalp acne is when I was using oil on my scalp to help with the dryness.

Last weekend I bought a sulfate free poo(organix) I diluted it and my scalp was the same very itchy and irritated and my hair felt like staw. I was afraid to use sulfates because its been so long and I was afraid it would dry my hair out, but after searching lhc I picked some head and shoulders for dry scalp. Yesterday I diluted it in a cup of water, and conditioned the length only. Today my scalp is a million times better,no itchies and the flakes have calmed down a lot , also my hair isn't dry at all :) I hope this stuff will clear up the acne, I'm thinking I with shampoo again in two days then once weekly. I don't know if it was the brands I used or if my hair just had buildup, but I used both sulfate free and sulfate shampoos the same way and the later was less drying. The h&s diluted was even as gentle as my poo bars, I hope it continues to be at least :)

Does anyone else have this problem with sulfate free poos? Also has anyone else had this problem with your scalp? How long does it take to heal and what do you use?

[Madora]

I haven't a clue but would strongly recommend that if your scalp acts up again, to make an appointment with a dermatologist and see if he/she can get to the heart of the problem. Good luck!

[chelsea89ms]

I definitely will, thank you Madora!

[mamaherrera]

I have been having better luck now that I use Nizoral (which is sulfate) I too, thought I was going to have a major shed or something from going back to sulfates after years of sulfate free, but it seems to be ok, happier, I think, although I get more oily now as my scalp has to readjust to getting stripped twice a week, but I hope to eventually go back down to once a week, and maybe less, but at least to get itchies and flakes under control, although I always have flakes, how much is normal just dead shed skin?? I think we should all have some of this no?? I don't know, but I always have flakes come up if I scratch my head. I stay away from oil and don't dilute my sulfate-free poos anymore, so I ensure my scalp gets clean. good luck!

[chelsea89ms]

I'm not really sure how much would be considered normal but those who don't wash every day must see some sort of flaking from the skin shedding the old cells:confused:. I have always had some flaking after scritching or scratching. lately it's more excessive, like dandruff even after a wash. But I have been scratching a lot with a horn comb tho.. Good luck to you too :) I hope it works out for you!!

[Panth]

You say you had worst problems with WO and with sulphate-free shampoo, and also with putting oil on your scalp. My best guess would be that you have a tendency towards yeast infections on the scalp. The yeast feeds on oils (both natural ones applied and the body's own sweat and sebum), so any routine that puts or leaves oil on the scalp would result in yeast growth and itchiness. There are several people (e.g. lapushka) who have this issue and who use sulphate-containing shampoos for precisely that reason - they cleanse the oil away, and thus keep the yeast infection controlled. In this case, sulphate-containing shampoos are better than the alternative (an unhappy, itchy, painful and shedding scalp).

Another possibility is that you may have a sensitivity to something in the Organix shampoo. Lots of sulphate-free products are crammed full of essential oils and herbal extracts (because they're aimed at the "natural" brigade), but these can cause irritation and/or allergic reactions.

[Phalaenopsis]

Just so you know, Organix is not really sulfatefree. It has a derivative of sulfates and it makes my scalp itchy and angry too.

[LadyStrange]

I actually had sort of the same problem when I used Organix/OGX. I bought the argan oil shampoo and conditioner and have been using it for the past 3 months or so and it made my hair pretty soft and lovely, but for some reason, my scalp really started hating it- I was getting flaky and kinda blegh. I'm not sure if it was something in the shampoo/conditioner that my hair disagreed with, but something totally fried my ends; I ended up having to hack off around 3 inches in order to bring it under some semblance of control. I don't think it's the argan oil itself in there that's upsetting bc I use argan oil outside of the shampoo and conditioner without any other problems. A couple days ago, I went back to using my Tresemme and my scalp is way happier already, and my hair feels a lot more happy than with the Organix. Perhaps it is my destiny to be forever using sulphate shampoos. :p

[mamaherrera]

I don't want to rob this thread or anything, but Panth I have a question that I've asked before. With people like us with these tendencies, I see you mention again that the yeast feeds off even our own sweat. in these times, winter, dry. . . etc. I exercise daily and I sweat on my scalp daily. so I'm in this predicament, of washing every day (drying/irritating scalp) or shampooing daily to keep sweat off. how do I find that perfect balance so I'm not constantly irritating yeast or SD with water but also not overloading it with sweat.

[tigereye]

I don't want to rob this thread or anything, but Panth I have a question that I've asked before. With people like us with these tendencies, I see you mention again that the yeast feeds off even our own sweat. in these times, winter, dry. . . etc. I exercise daily and I sweat on my scalp daily. so I'm in this predicament, of washing every day (drying/irritating scalp) or shampooing daily to keep sweat off. how do I find that perfect balance so I'm not constantly irritating yeast or SD with water but also not overloading it with sweat.

I don't know if it would work for you, since I don't have yeast-scalp issues (just as well, since Im allergic to SLS), but whe I go sailing, I find a quick rinse in fresh-water when I come on-shore helps immensely to remove most of the salt from sweat and the sea from my hair. However, I'm not sure if that would be just as irritating for you.

[lapushka]

You say you had worst problems with WO and with sulphate-free shampoo, and also with putting oil on your scalp. My best guess would be that you have a tendency towards yeast infections on the scalp. The yeast feeds on oils (both natural ones applied and the body's own sweat and sebum), so any routine that puts or leaves oil on the scalp would result in yeast growth and itchiness. There are several people (e.g. lapushka) who have this issue and who use sulphate-containing shampoos for precisely that reason - they cleanse the oil away, and thus keep the yeast infection controlled. In this case, sulphate-containing shampoos are better than the alternative (an unhappy, itchy, painful and shedding scalp).

Another possibility is that you may have a sensitivity to something in the Organix shampoo. Lots of sulphate-free products are crammed full of essential oils and herbal extracts (because they're aimed at the "natural" brigade), but these can cause irritation and/or allergic reactions.

I can't put oil on my scalp, and need the harsh cleanse of a sulfate shampoo, because I suffer from something called SD or Seborrheic Dermatitis. Its signs are flaking (usually but not always bigger flakes). Sometimes it's just an itchy red patch with tiny flakes. If it breaks out, I need my Nizoral shampoo and it clears it right up.

Thanks for thinking of me, Panth! ;)

[Halliday]

I know that Selsun Blue is meant to be a very good shampoo for irritated scalps; you could give that a go.

[Halliday]

OH wait I forgot to add: Organix contains dimethicone in their shampoos so that may be the reason; many people don't get on with that brand.

[ExpectoPatronum]

I don't think I have SD (maybe a very mild case), but like lapushka, I've found sulfate shampoos to keep my scalp the happiest. Everything else usually left my scalp itchy and flakey after a while. I haven't had that problem since switching back to sulfates.

[whiterabbit]

When you condition, do you use anything with cones? I'm asking because I have noticed other posts that mention sulfate free shampoos not being able to take the cones out at the next wash and they build up. This may be why the sulfates work again? I may be wrong, just a thought.

[Panth]

I don't want to rob this thread or anything, but Panth I have a question that I've asked before. With people like us with these tendencies, I see you mention again that the yeast feeds off even our own sweat. in these times, winter, dry. . . etc. I exercise daily and I sweat on my scalp daily. so I'm in this predicament, of washing every day (drying/irritating scalp) or shampooing daily to keep sweat off. how do I find that perfect balance so I'm not constantly irritating yeast or SD with water but also not overloading it with sweat.

You've asked it before and I've answered it before. You just have to experiment to see what's best for you. However, as lapuskha said, you don't need to use shampoo to remove sweat, particularly if you wash immediately post-exercise. A water-only rinse would more than suffice. Some people who're prone to seborrheic dermatitis also cannot tolerate having wet scalp hair for long periods of time, so you may also want to try using a hairdryer on cool, at least for the first few inches of hair.

[jeanniet]

I'm not really sure how much would be considered normal but those who don't wash every day must see some sort of flaking from the skin shedding the old cells:confused:. I have always had some flaking after scritching or scratching. lately it's more excessive, like dandruff even after a wash. But I have been scratching a lot with a horn comb tho.. Good luck to you too :) I hope it works out for you!!

I don't think that's necessarily the case, or at least not enough to notice. I always had some flaking with shampoo, even sulfate-free, but not with CO (not saying CO is best for everyone, just for me). If I scritch with my fingernails, I really don't see anything--and I used to scritch all the time when I first went totally CO because I couldn't believe I wasn't flaking, lol. So that's kind of my test; if I can scritch and not see any flaking, I'm good. :D The same is true for using shampoo, too, whichever works best.

[Zwaluw]

I have an itchy scalp as well. I tried using sulfates again, but for me that caused a ton of stinging and the itch stayed. I've been diluting my sulfate-free shampoo with honey and that helps for me. There's still occasional itches but nothing annoying or bothering. And my scalp feels a lot happier to me.

I think it's a matter of trying things out and seeing what makes you comfortable. Lots of luck!

[chelsea89ms]

Hi, thanks for all your answers!

It is possible that the organix just made my scap conditions worse, I should have just clarified after the WO. I have pretty sensitive skin to things like brass, nickel, some body washes like bath and body works and face washes that have salicylic acid. Those things will usually give me a rash that is ether a big bumpy spot or many little spots that itch like crazy. I don't see any rashes on my scalp and the acne is painful rather than itchy, they are all near my hairline four above my ears on the side and near the temple and a smaller one in the back above my neck. I'm not really sure if the scalp would react differently than the rest of the skin when it comes to irritants.

I'm really concerned about it being yeast or SD, if it flairs up again I'm going to my doctor. Today my scalp is the same not itchy but still some flakes when I scratch under my nails. I think I'm going to go ahead and shampoo tonight with the full strength to see if it helps clear things up. I will also be doing some research on SD and yeast to get a better understanding of what they are.

[Panth]

If it is suspected SD, your doctor will recommend 2% ketoconazole shampoo (aka Nizoral), used exactly as per the directions without diluting. If you use that for a bottle worth and it fixes the problem, then it was SD. Simple.

If it was SD and you keep getting bouts, there is stuff you can to to help prevent the yeast from overgrowing. Mostly: use strong (e.g. SLS) shampoo, don't stretch washes too much, don't put oil on your scalp or leave your scalp sweaty, don't leave your scalp damp for long periods of time, treat bouts promptly with Nizoral. Not everyone needs all of those to prevent recurrences, so you will need to experiment a bit to optimise your routine for your hair/scalp.

[JenniferMN]

A few months ago, I had a really itchy scalp and the itching led to hair loss. Like you, I also had some flakes whenever I scratched at my scalp. I remember thinking it was really weird, because I'd never had dandruff before. I'm not really sure what caused it, maybe it was the season changing from winter to spring, or it may have been that I started braiding my hair wet and then going to sleep like that (although I'd always gone to bed with my hair wet..). The itchiness persisted for 6 months. During that time I switched to a non-sulfate shampoo, hoping it would help. It didn't lessen or worsen my itchy scalp, at least not that I remember.

Looking back on it now, 6 months seems like such a long time, but I never got it checked out! I was convinced that I could take care of the problem myself. In October when my Mom was out shopping she saw Nizoral, read the description, and thought it might help, so she bought it. The problem cleared up within two weeks of use (I used it for 2 more weeks though, because that's what the instructions said and I wanted to make sure I solved the problem).

Now, my scalp is a lot better! :) The itchies stayed away all of November. Earlier this month, my scalp started to get a bit itchy again, so I used some Nizoral and it hasn't been itchy since! I wash every two days with a non-sulfate shampoo (Herbal Glo Thin/Fine Shampoo).

Sorry if that was long. :P I'm not really good at giving advice (I'm still a Newbie, though I've been lurking around for a month or two), but I think you should keep using the sulfate shampoo if that's what's making your scalp happy. :) After the problem is cleared up, you can try going back to 'poo bars, but if your scalp starts getting itchy again use sulfates. Whatever happens, good luck!!

[lapushka]

A few months ago, I had a really itchy scalp and the itching led to hair loss. Like you, I also had some flakes whenever I scratched at my scalp. I remember thinking it was really weird, because I'd never had dandruff before. I'm not really sure what caused it, maybe it was the season changing from winter to spring, or it may have been that I started braiding my hair wet and then going to sleep like that (although I'd always gone to bed with my hair wet..). The itchiness persisted for 6 months. During that time I switched to a non-sulfate shampoo, hoping it would help. It didn't lessen or worsen my itchy scalp, at least not that I remember.

Looking back on it now, 6 months seems like such a long time, but I never got it checked out! I was convinced that I could take care of the problem myself. In October when my Mom was out shopping she saw Nizoral, read the description, and thought it might help, so she bought it. The problem cleared up within two weeks of use (I used it for 2 more weeks though, because that's what the instructions said and I wanted to make sure I solved the problem).

Now, my scalp is a lot better! :) The itchies stayed away all of November. Earlier this month, my scalp started to get a bit itchy again, so I used some Nizoral and it hasn't been itchy since! I wash every two days with a non-sulfate shampoo (Herbal Glo Thin/Fine Shampoo).

Sorry if that was long. :P I'm not really good at giving advice (I'm still a Newbie, though I've been lurking around for a month or two), but I think you should keep using the sulfate shampoo if that's what's making your scalp happy. :) After the problem is cleared up, you can try going back to 'poo bars, but if your scalp starts getting itchy again use sulfates. Whatever happens, good luck!!

If Nizoral helps, then no doubt you have seborrheic dermatitis (SD). In that case I wouldn't go to sleep with wet hair (esp. not braided and/or bunched up in one spot). It makes it worse. You need to dry the scalp properly (I use a blow dryer). I have SD too. It's no laughing matter. You need to take proper care of your hair and scalp if you don't want continuous bouts of SD.

[JenniferMN]

Yes, I wash my hair earlier now so that by the time I go to bed it's completely dry. I don't blow dry it, it's thin so it luckily doesn't take too long to dry.

Do you have any other tips for SD? I think not oiling the scalp, right? Do you use Nizoral once a month or just when it starts getting itchy again?

[lapushka]

Do you have any other tips for SD? I think not oiling the scalp, right? Do you use Nizoral once a month or just when it starts getting itchy again?

Not oiling is one thing. The other thing I find that keeps my SD at bay is washing with a harsh sulfate shampoo. And I stretched my washes to once a week, longer is impossible or I get bouts of SD again. And sometimes there's just no holding it back. There it'll be. And then I need to bust out the Nizoral again. But otherwise, a strong sulfate shampoo does the trick, pretty much!

[Panth]

Yes, I wash my hair earlier now so that by the time I go to bed it's completely dry. I don't blow dry it, it's thin so it luckily doesn't take too long to dry.

Do you have any other tips for SD? I think not oiling the scalp, right? Do you use Nizoral once a month or just when it starts getting itchy again?

I only use Nizoral when I get a bout of SD (i.e. itching, scales). However, some people do use it once a month or so once things are back under control, just to keep everything happy. IIRC, the instructions on the bottle recommend that. Some people need it, some people don't.

[evelynmosby]

Looking for a natural alternative: I've been using 9:1 water to honey mixture pour int in spray bottle, spray on scalp massage in, wrap head in plastic wrap, top off with a winter hat, let it sit for 3 hours then rinse thoroughly. It's worked great! I'm so happy with the results! My dandruff was oily and when I scratched I'd end up with oily thick gunk under my nails, now it's virtually gone. I'm starting to love my hair.

[chelsea89ms]

JenniferMN, that's so wonderful you found something that works to make your scalp happy! Thanks for sharing your story you never know who it may help :) I definitely plan to continue using the H&S, my scalp is so much better! Good luck to you too and welcome to lhc!!


I shampooed again yesterday with the full strength H&S shampoo and my scalp is much better today :) I don't have any flakes or itchies, the acne is starting to heal and is not as sore. After doing some research I think I may have had ether dandruff or some buildup on my scalp that caused the itching and flakes, going water only probably caused the acne because of the buildup and my failure to properly scritch/clean my scalp. I'm going to continue using the H&S whenever I feel my scalp needs it. If for some reason it stops working I'm going to try the Nizoral shampoo to see if that helps.

I hope everyone who is having scalp problems is able to find something that works!! :cheese::cheese::cheese:

[luvnaz]

Looking for a natural alternative: I've been using 9:1 water to honey mixture pour int in spray bottle, spray on scalp massage in, wrap head in plastic wrap, top off with a winter hat, let it sit for 3 hours then rinse thoroughly. It's worked great! I'm so happy with the results! My dandruff was oily and when I scratched I'd end up with oily thick gunk under my nails, now it's virtually gone. I'm starting to love my hair.

I'm going to have to give honey a try. I've been having scalp dryness and itchiness for YEARS! I have tried so many things...every type of dandruff & SD shampoo, no SLS, shampoo bars (which are my favorite and keep the itchiness away, but have to ordered online and the shipping is expensive so I can't really afford shampoo bars until they stock them at the store). I've tried store bought natural soaps and they leave a terrible buildup so maybe I'll try an ACV rinse? But honey sounds like it would be natural & soothing. There is a natural beauty bar I use that is nice, but expensive too. But worth it I think!

I think my problem started with coloring my hair for years with store bought colorant & using Tresseme shampoo & conditioner. It seemed to have a lot of SLS. The nape of my neck is visibly red, bumpy, and sore!

While my hair is wet is when the itch is really bad! So I think I do have SD and will try Nizoral again!

[luvnaz]

Looking for a natural alternative: I've been using 9:1 water to honey mixture pour int in spray bottle, spray on scalp massage in, wrap head in plastic wrap, top off with a winter hat, let it sit for 3 hours then rinse thoroughly. It's worked great! I'm so happy with the results! My dandruff was oily and when I scratched I'd end up with oily thick gunk under my nails, now it's virtually gone. I'm starting to love my hair.

I'm going to have to give honey a try. I've been having scalp dryness and itchiness for YEARS! I have tried so many things...every type of dandruff & SD shampoo, no SLS, shampoo bars (which are my favorite and keep the itchiness away, but have to ordered online and the shipping is expensive so I can't really afford shampoo bars until they stock them at the store). I've tried store bought natural soaps and they leave a terrible buildup so maybe I'll try an ACV rinse? But honey sounds like it would be natural & soothing. There is a natural beauty bar I use that is nice, but expensive too. But worth it I think!

I think my problem started with coloring my hair for years with store bought colorant & using Tresseme shampoo & conditioner. It seemed to have a lot of SLS. The nape of my neck is visibly red, bumpy, and sore!

While my hair is wet is when the itch is really bad! So I think I do have SD and will try Nizoral again!

[Panth]

I'm going to have to give honey a try. I've been having scalp dryness and itchiness for YEARS! I have tried so many things...every type of dandruff & SD shampoo, no SLS, shampoo bars (which are my favorite and keep the itchiness away, but have to ordered online and the shipping is expensive so I can't really afford shampoo bars until they stock them at the store). I've tried store bought natural soaps and they leave a terrible buildup so maybe I'll try an ACV rinse? But honey sounds like it would be natural & soothing. There is a natural beauty bar I use that is nice, but expensive too. But worth it I think!

I think my problem started with coloring my hair for years with store bought colorant & using Tresseme shampoo & conditioner. It seemed to have a lot of SLS. The nape of my neck is visibly red, bumpy, and sore!

While my hair is wet is when the itch is really bad! So I think I do have SD and will try Nizoral again!

The honey will only work if you have a dry scalp condition (e.g. xerosis, eczema) as it's essentially moisturising (due to being a humectant). If you have SD then I'd expect honey would make things worse by giving more food for the yeast.

[lapushka]

The nape of my neck is visibly red, bumpy, and sore!

While my hair is wet is when the itch is really bad! So I think I do have SD and will try Nizoral again!

That sure sounds like SD to me. When my SD acts up, it's red, itchy and flaky.
Don't let anything else touch your scalp and do *only* the Nizoral.

[Jonquil]

Nizoral is great for itchy/flaky scalp issues. Ever since I went sulfate free about a year ago I get small itchy, bumpy, red areas on my scalp every few months. Not sure if it's SD, but Nizoral calms everything down immediately.

[lapushka]

Nizoral is great for itchy/flaky scalp issues. Ever since I went sulfate free about a year ago I get small itchy, bumpy, red areas on my scalp every few months. Not sure if it's SD, but Nizoral calms everything down immediately.

Nizoral is a sulfate shampoo, though. That's why I keep my routine strictly sulfates, and the harsher ones at that; it seems to keep my SD at bay quite fine.

[epinglette]

i have had FIERCELY resistant scalp irritation and thick, thick flaking that i spent years (i'm talking 2008-2015) bouncing between remedies trying to control. i'd get relief for maybe a month or two before things coming apart again, even prescription remedies. over a month ago i started applying a thick solution of monistat 4% cream + water to my scalp when wet immediately after a shower, and after 2-3 applications my itching + flaking stopped. i'm actually home for the holidays and didn't bring my applicator bottle with me, so i've missed a week of applications, and still no symptoms! i do still use sulfate + 'cone products (although i'd love to wean myself off in the coming new year!)

[Panth]

i have had FIERCELY resistant scalp irritation and thick, thick flaking that i spent years (i'm talking 2008-2015) bouncing between remedies trying to control. i'd get relief for maybe a month or two before things coming apart again, even prescription remedies. over a month ago i started applying a thick solution of monistat 4% cream + water to my scalp when wet immediately after a shower, and after 2-3 applications my itching + flaking stopped. i'm actually home for the holidays and didn't bring my applicator bottle with me, so i've missed a week of applications, and still no symptoms! i do still use sulfate + 'cone products (although i'd love to wean myself off in the coming new year!)

That also sounds like SD. Monistat is an antifungal. Have you tried an antifungal that is actually formulated for the scalp, e.g. Nizoral?

[luvnaz]

About a month ago I wrote a post on this topic and I have been using Nizoral ever since. My scalp itch and red bumps and flakes have gotten so much better and I am so happy for some relief! I also think it is helping that I dry my hair right away instead of letting it air dry like I used to as someone suggested. I rarely have to use my salicylic acid cream for psoriasis anymore! So thanks for these tips. I may still try the honey.

[yahirwaO.o]

Oh my..... so many things, I havent used shampoo for almost half a year and the last time was using organix which was just fine.

So hands down for the only natural thing that cleans my hair so well, no flakes whatsoever.... Egg washing mixed with things that come normaly as deep conditioners!!!!

Reading this and the complication that comes looking for the right commercial thing makes me relief to have finally found my own panacea..

So the thing I can only tell you is keep trying but not the point that ur scalp gets angry.... ull get eventually to something that makes you and your hair happy!!!! :o

[chelsea89ms]

About a month ago I wrote a post on this topic and I have been using Nizoral ever since. My scalp itch and red bumps and flakes have gotten so much better and I am so happy for some relief! I also think it is helping that I dry my hair right away instead of letting it air dry like I used to as someone suggested. I rarely have to use my salicylic acid cream for psoriasis anymore! So thanks for these tips. I may still try the honey.

Thats wonderful that you found something that works for you! Hopefully someone who knows more about these thing will step in, I know things like oils are bad for SD but I'm unsure about honey... You should check out the support thread before you try anything new to make sure things don't flair up again. :grouphug:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=54045

[lapushka]

About a month ago I wrote a post on this topic and I have been using Nizoral ever since. My scalp itch and red bumps and flakes have gotten so much better and I am so happy for some relief! I also think it is helping that I dry my hair right away instead of letting it air dry like I used to as someone suggested. I rarely have to use my salicylic acid cream for psoriasis anymore! So thanks for these tips. I may still try the honey.

I'm glad it helps! Just keep it up, and don't start experimenting because that could nix all your progress. Research the honey well. :)