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CitrusGirrl
December 17th, 2014, 05:05 PM
Hi there -

My partner has TBL hair which I would say is 3a/m/ii or iii (will measure when I next see him!). The length is pretty dry and he says he can only brush it when it's wet as otherwise it poofs up dramatically (I'd love to see this in person, haha!). This means it's often really knotty although he is starting to have it braided more to keep that down.

I have totally different hair (1b) and so don't feel in a position to give him advice so was wondering if you guys could offer up some starting points? How would you look after very long curly hair that's dry from about the shoulders down and can't be brushed loads?

He currently uses a nylon bristle brush and whatever shampoos and conditioners he ends up with at the shop. Only brushes whilst it's wet after washing, but has recently started working through coconut oil before he washes after he saw the difference it made to my hair (best advice EVER from this forum!). I think that's making a little difference already :) He washes it approximately every other day (I can't see him doing this less often so no shampoo is probably not an option). He doesn't trim it and is growing it to terminal length. Growth is currently very slow.

Any advice on brushing, washing, moisturising and growing such hair would be greatly appreciated! What's worked for you, curlies? :)

Many thanks, Hannah

p.s. I can totally get a picture if that helps.

jeanniet
December 17th, 2014, 05:25 PM
If you don't think he'd try conditioner only, see if he will dilute his shampoo heavily, and then condition twice. Type 3 hair needs a lot of moisture, and maybe if he starts to see an improvement, he'll consider doing at least some conditioner washes. He definitely shouldn't be detangling dry, or in between washes, but if he's using a brush he should make sure his hair is loaded with condtioner and there's no pulling involved (I use a Denman brush with conditioner to detangle, no problem). The main thing is getting enough moisture in and keeping it in. He may want to try leaving a little of his regular conditioner in, too.

A picture is alway helpful!

CitrusGirrl
December 17th, 2014, 05:39 PM
Thank you so much! He has actually tried leaving conditioner in a few times recently so I'll ask him how it felt then. That would make my hair sticky and dull which is why my advice is not worth much to him, haha! I'll talk to him about diluting shampoo or trying conditioner only. Luckily he's really into having long hair and wants to learn how to look after it better. Detangling while it's got conditioner on is a great suggestion. When I see him brush his hair after a shower it looks like it might be quite elastic. He certainly gets a lot of breakage and I couldn't bear to be so rough with mine, but he's been thinking that's the best time to get the tangles out.

He's over tomorrow so I can get a picture then, hopefully. His hair is gorgeous already but I am enjoying the prospect of it getting even more gorgeous, so thank you for your help!

lauren_alia
December 17th, 2014, 08:31 PM
I would suggest a wide tooth comb over a brush (though I've never tried a Denman brush). And definitely some kind of leave-in conditioner to dengle with when wet. I like Kinky Curly Knot Today leave-in/detangler. It provides good slip for detangling and soaks into my hair really well and doesn't leave it greasy or weighed down or anything.

Jennah
December 18th, 2014, 06:51 AM
Any advice on brushing, washing, moisturising and growing such hair would be greatly appreciated! What's worked for you, curlies? :)


I have the same type as your partner. When the hair is wet after the shower I apply coconut oil and it makes it really soft (not before the shower although that might help too) and when the hair is dry I apply this Oil Repair cream (pic (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ocyNNxqOoro/UZWaBRZBrVI/AAAAAAAAAMA/kqziiODhelw/s1600/DSCF2680.JPG)) or any similar repair one. I donīt put regular conditioner because itīll make my hair sticky I think too. Those dry right off and make the hair really silky.

CurlyGrace
December 18th, 2014, 07:36 AM
Hey, I've got curls too! I second lauren_alia on that he should definitely stop brushing and switch to using a wide tooth comb - less breakage, damage, and overall more curl definition/less frizz to :) Kinky Curly Knot Today is a great one, and maybe he could try some SheaMoisture products too. I don't know if he is, but he should also try washing his hair less frequently - at the most, every other day - as that will help to retain moisture and softness in the curls. Using sulfate-free and silicone-free shampoos and conditioners is also a wonderful idea. Hope that helps!

CurlyGrace
December 18th, 2014, 07:38 AM
^^oops I meant "at the least" not "at the most". Every other day is like the bare minimum for me, I go longer than that usually.

LadyCelestina
December 18th, 2014, 09:21 AM
I have a similar hairtype (see stats),boyfriend has similar hairtype (same as me only thinner and finer).

If your partner wants to brush his hair while dry without poofing up,I'd suggest a boar bristle brush.It requires a bit of careful finger detangling (for me,bf's hair is easily combed) but smooths the hair really well.Also helps distribute sebum which makes hair feel silkier.

Does he use heat or dye?
Also,does he use shampoo on the whole length or just the roots?
Both mine and bf's hair does better with any heavier conditioning being done while in the shower,and minimum leave in - mostly oil and silicone serum type products.

Grow might be slow if he doesn't wear buns due to wear and tear on the ends.And he should also take his time detangling the hair,not rip through knots etc.Easier said than done :lol:

CitrusGirrl
December 18th, 2014, 09:56 AM
Thanks for all your answers! I know I've mentioned combing to him before but I don't remember what he said. I'll get back to you about that later. It hurts my eyes to watch him brush his hair though! And he always says he has no idea how he has any hair left with how much comes out when he brushes.

He never dyes or uses heat or any other products on his hair, definitely.

The gist so far is then:
- wash less if he is willing to, with sulfate/silicone free shampoo
- comb or use a bristle brush, and be gentle!
- leave conditioner in, or oil his hair instead of it and leave that in

Thanks, guys :)

jeanniet
December 18th, 2014, 12:26 PM
If he's a 3, he shouldn't be using a BBB. Wavies can get away with it, but if he's a 3 (spirals rather than S-waves), it will break up the curls and cause frizz and pouf. And make sure he's only detangling in the shower. No manipulating hair dry.

Quixii
December 18th, 2014, 12:49 PM
He might try going cone and sulfate free. Not everybody sees a difference/positive difference after doing so, but it might help.

Personally, I could never get on with combing. I love my wood bristle, ball-tip-less brush.

Does he wear his hair up at all?

CitrusGirrl
December 18th, 2014, 04:32 PM
Thank you for all of your advice, lovelies! He's really pro keeping things simple so is going to go for spacing out his washes more, using coconut oil afterwards and leaving it in, and trying out a BBB to see if it helps at all.

We took a picture and though it's not done with the proper hairtyping thing of only finger combing, I am wondering if he's maybe a 2c and not a 3a. Any hints on deciding this for sure?

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u38/citrusgirrl/DSC_0559.jpg

jeanniet
December 18th, 2014, 04:55 PM
Really, it doesn't matter that much except that the more curl, the more added moisture helps. I do see spiraling, though, which is more 3 (2 is S-waves). With the clumping I see (you want to encourage that; it will help with tangles), I'd really suggest not combing or brushing dry at all. Minimal rinsing of conditioner, too, so a bit is left in. It won't make his hair sticky. Curly hair will absorb an amazing amount.

Freija
December 19th, 2014, 06:16 AM
Quixii, sorry to jump in, but do you use your brush on wet hair/in the shower? I don't get on with combing either, and I only finger-detangle my hair when it's wet at the moment, but I've used a wooden quill brush on dry hair in the past and would love to be able to use something similar on wet hair. : )

Hotrox
December 19th, 2014, 07:21 AM
What nice hair your man has :)

Similar stats to mine and what works for me is normal shampoo and conditioner, alternating between a moisturizing one and one with proteins. Sometimes CWC and sometimes WCC. Only combing once with a wide tooth comb when wet and using a little amount of conditioner as a leave in. Air dry without fussing at it too much and Never Ever let a brush touch my hair!! A little gel helps define and stop the poof.

LadyCelestina
December 19th, 2014, 07:36 AM
If he's a 3, he shouldn't be using a BBB. Wavies can get away with it, but if he's a 3 (spirals rather than S-waves), it will break up the curls and cause frizz and pouf. And make sure he's only detangling in the shower. No manipulating hair dry.

Here goes nothing :D I wanted to point something out but realized it's not necessary since OP's bf prefers detangling in the shower already :lol:

ETA:But just out of curiosity,jeanniet,I remember you telling me on some curly hair thread a long time ago (I hope I don't look weird for remembering it),that you successfully did CG on hip length hair I think?.How come it didn't tangle for you in between washes? Did you re-wet everyday? Or just have non-tangly hair by nature?

Halliday
December 19th, 2014, 07:42 AM
He could try a wide tooth comb, but leaving some conditioner in his hair when it's wet is amazing for dry curls, I really recommend he tries that.

Halliday
December 19th, 2014, 07:43 AM
He looks more 2c btw, his hair is gorgeous!

jeanniet
December 19th, 2014, 10:43 AM
Here goes nothing :D I wanted to point something out but realized it's not necessary since OP's bf prefers detangling in the shower already :lol:

ETA:But just out of curiosity,jeanniet,I remember you telling me on some curly hair thread a long time ago (I hope I don't look weird for remembering it),that you successfully did CG on hip length hair I think?.How come it didn't tangle for you in between washes? Did you re-wet everyday? Or just have non-tangly hair by nature?


It's always worthwhile repeating, I think. I'm actually quite flattered you remember, although not quite accurately. ;) It took me a long, long time to realize I'm actually type 3 and not type 2 (c). All my life, I was always told I had wavy hair, so I brushed and combed as though it was, and just thought I had "frizzy, pouffy" hair. When I was growing it out, I did all the "correct" LHC/George Michael things I was supposed to--I brushed daily, I detangled twice a day (yes, gently and carefully)--but without the results I thought I was supposed to get. At every length, I had constant tangles, whether up, down, or freshly detangled. And then I started thinking, and reading, and looking at my son's hair (who is a solid 3b with amazing curls), and thought, "Hmmm, maybe I'm curlier than I thought." At that point I'd cut back from hip to about BSL or so, and that's when I started fiddling with CG. Then I trimmed some more, and finally I cut back to shoulder because I decided I wanted to go full-on CG and see where it led me. About six months later, because the more moisture and less manipulating, the more curling, I was at a solid 3a/3b. Although not as nice as my son's hair, lol.

So that's why I'm always telling people they might be curlier than they think, and to stop combing/brushing dry, or suggesting they try CO or whatever, because I know it's possible to comb and brush a lot of the curl out of your hair if you don't actually know you're curly. It won't necessarily look great, but it's possible. Right now I'm considering growing my hair out to maybe APL. Probably not longer than that. It takes too long to dry, and that drives me crazy--it was the main reason I started cutting in the first place. As it is, I do some drying with a diffuser and it still takes a good 6 hours or more at shoulder! So no, I didn't do CG at hip, and I definitely didn't have tangle-free hair then! Now, with CG, I have zero tangles, and I only "detangle" when I wash, so about every 3 days. Just goes to show that working with hair type and not against it is a lot easier.

CitrusGirrl
December 19th, 2014, 02:42 PM
oooo, what's CG? He tried minimal shampoo followed by coconut oil gently combed through today. Definitely less damage with combing. He says he's pretty happy to stick with that for a week or two and then check progress, so I will up date soon.

His hair is gorgeous isn't it? :D Thanks so much for your help.

Madora
December 19th, 2014, 04:54 PM
I'm not a curly, but for the sake of your friend's hair, ditch the brush and use a wide tooth comb. Also, HOW you use the comb is very important. Because curly hair is prone to damage if not handled gently, try detangling in small strips, working from the bottom, little by little, until you reach the roots. If you're concerned that the detangled hair will get mixed in with the untangled hair, clip the detangled hair with a one piece clip to keep it out of the way. Also, if possible, try wearing the hair up to minimize the possibilities of tangles. If that doesn't appeal to him, then try and detangle at least twice a day and not leave detangling until night, when you are tired.

Quixii
December 19th, 2014, 05:12 PM
Quixii, sorry to jump in, but do you use your brush on wet hair/in the shower? I don't get on with combing either, and I only finger-detangle my hair when it's wet at the moment, but I've used a wooden quill brush on dry hair in the past and would love to be able to use something similar on wet hair. : )
Yeah, I use mine on dry hair right before I shower and wet hair right after I shower, and I finger detangle when it's loaded down with conditioner in the shower.

lapushka
December 19th, 2014, 05:18 PM
oooo, what's CG? He tried minimal shampoo followed by coconut oil gently combed through today. Definitely less damage with combing. He says he's pretty happy to stick with that for a week or two and then check progress, so I will up date soon.

His hair is gorgeous isn't it? :D Thanks so much for your help.

CG = Curly Girl method:
http://www.wikihow.com/Follow-the-Curly-Girl-Method-for-Curly-Hair

jeanniet
December 19th, 2014, 06:36 PM
I should clarify that when I say CG, I really mean more "curly hair techniques" and not strict CG. Through experimentation, I put together a routine that's a mix of CG and TightlyCurly. But the main ideas are:

1) Either COing or using a sulfate-free shampoo (and even that doesn't work for everyone, because scalp issues may require sulfates), and avoiding cones that build up (although this doesn't matter to some)

2) Either not rinsing conditioner all the way out or adding some back in after rinsing

3) Only detangling in the shower, hair loaded with conditioner

4) Airdrying, or avoiding high heat

5) Not brushing or combing outside of the shower; that is, not on dry hair, to avoid disturbing the curl pattern (some will brush right before a shower)

The two biggest caveats in general are using plenty of conditioner and not brushing/combing when dry. When you detangle wet, it allows the clumps to reform after and then dry in their natural pattern, which helps to avoid tangling. When you detangle dry, you break up the clumps and they don't reform properly, which leads to constant tangles, no matter how much you detangle. Keep the curls intact, and tangling will be significantly reduced, even if you only detangle every three days (or even longer). It may sound counterintuitive, and it's not how you would handle straighter hair, but it works for curls.

vega
December 19th, 2014, 06:53 PM
Thank you for all of your advice, lovelies! He's really pro keeping things simple so is going to go for spacing out his washes more, using coconut oil afterwards and leaving it in, and trying out a BBB to see if it helps at all.

We took a picture and though it's not done with the proper hairtyping thing of only finger combing, I am wondering if he's maybe a 2c and not a 3a. Any hints on deciding this for sure?

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u38/citrusgirrl/DSC_0559.jpg

I love her hair it's pretty

CitrusGirrl
December 20th, 2014, 02:47 AM
Jeanne, thank you so much for the summary, that's really helpful :) It's so different than looking after straight hair but he really wants to get good at it so I'm helping all I can via you guys!

tigereye
December 20th, 2014, 04:54 AM
Just putting it out there again: not everybody does well with a comb. One of my friends is a 3c, with waist-length tight ringlets. A comb dry still breaks up her curls into poofy frizz, and combing in the shower is a nightmare for her because she can't find a waterproof comb without sharp seams (which seem to cause her a lot of damage) and other combs (eg. Wooden ones) degrade and snap over time with the repeated water exposure. On the other hand, brushing gently in sections with conditioner-soaked wet hair works perfectly for her and she gets no tangles when dry. She uses a Denman too.

Of course I'm barely wavy, so I can use a comb just fine, but it's not the same for everyone.

CitrusGirrl
December 20th, 2014, 09:36 AM
He's very research-based so will be keeping an eye on the effect of each method very carefully, don't worry. He did find my comb good yesterday though and has borrowed it to see how it goes.

Beborani
December 20th, 2014, 10:55 AM
I took a double take as that is my hair if left alone. Jeanniet has great advice. Detangling on hair like is is about removing sheds and then let the hair do its thing, not to ensure no two strand stick to each other! So encouraging clumping and waiting until wash day to let sheds fall out--for me they fall out in the shower with conditioner--is the way to go.

Annalouise
December 20th, 2014, 12:21 PM
I should clarify that when I say CG, I really mean more "curly hair techniques" and not strict CG. Through experimentation, I put together a routine that's a mix of CG and TightlyCurly. But the main ideas are:

1) Either COing or using a sulfate-free shampoo (and even that doesn't work for everyone, because scalp issues may require sulfates), and avoiding cones that build up (although this doesn't matter to some)

2) Either not rinsing conditioner all the way out or adding some back in after rinsing

3) Only detangling in the shower, hair loaded with conditioner

4) Airdrying, or avoiding high heat

5) Not brushing or combing outside of the shower; that is, not on dry hair, to avoid disturbing the curl pattern (some will brush right before a shower)

The two biggest caveats in general are using plenty of conditioner and not brushing/combing when dry. When you detangle wet, it allows the clumps to reform after and then dry in their natural pattern, which helps to avoid tangling. When you detangle dry, you break up the clumps and they don't reform properly, which leads to constant tangles, no matter how much you detangle. Keep the curls intact, and tangling will be significantly reduced, even if you only detangle every three days (or even longer). It may sound counterintuitive, and it's not how you would handle straighter hair, but it works for curls.

Hi Jeanniet- do you think this routine you reference is applicable to 2C hair? :) It's the direction I'm heading in to minimize shedding
by minimizing mechanical manipulation.

jeanniet
December 20th, 2014, 10:56 PM
Hi Jeanniet- do you think this routine you reference is applicable to 2C hair? :) It's the direction I'm heading in to minimize shedding
by minimizing mechanical manipulation.

I think it would be worthwhile trying it out, with some adjustments. If the products you're currently using work for you, keep using them. So if you're not COing now, keep using whatever shampoo you like, although maybe dilute it a bit. And I don't think I'd use added leave in, because your hair doesn't need to be weighed down. But try not rinsing your conditioner all the way out after you detangle--leave enough in so your hair still feels slick. Then lightly squeeze or pat with a towel to remove water. I scrunch and then plop with a flour sack towel, but that was after some experimentation to see what worked best. Give it two weeks, and see if there's a difference for you. It took a good three to six months for my curls to really form, but I could tell things were getting better within a couple weeks. I honestly can't say that you'll develop more curl, but it's a distinct possibility.

And just for you: a pic of my hair after three days of sleeping on it, exposure to rain and wind, NO detangling, and basically ignoring it because I just finished finals and have been busy getting ready for Christmas and having family here. Looks pretty tangled and frizzed up and even a little matted, right? The reason I'm posting such a ratty picture is because I just finished washing my hair, and I was very careful to keep my fingers out of it so that I could count for you exactly how long it took to run my brush through it: 5 seconds. After three days of not doing any kind of detangling, I had no tangles at all. That's because the curls hold together, and although they might frizz up some, they don't tangle. Granted, my hair is shorter (although there's about 4" of shrinkage), but until I started this routine I always had tangles, no matter the length. So enjoy my ratty hair pic!

http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu150/edmjt63/df309321-cc8b-4d81-bb1c-2f9dc92d44dc.jpg

Annalouise
December 21st, 2014, 08:19 AM
Jeanniet-
I'm sorry, I realized my question was kindof dumb because the OP's boyfriend's hair is 2c-3a so of course this would work on a 2c.:doh:

Wow, I can't believe you can run a brush through your hair in 5 seconds!!???
Your curls are amazing by the way. They look terrific.:D

Annalouise
December 21st, 2014, 09:51 AM
I would suggest a wide tooth comb over a brush (though I've never tried a Denman brush). And definitely some kind of leave-in conditioner to dengle with when wet. I like Kinky Curly Knot Today leave-in/detangler. It provides good slip for detangling and soaks into my hair really well and doesn't leave it greasy or weighed down or anything.

I was wondering if you could tell me what the KCKT leave in smells like? Is it a lingering smell that stays on the hair?


Hey, I've got curls too! I second lauren_alia on that he should definitely stop brushing and switch to using a wide tooth comb - less breakage, damage, and overall more curl definition/less frizz to :) Kinky Curly Knot Today is a great one, and maybe he could try some SheaMoisture products too. I don't know if he is, but he should also try washing his hair less frequently - at the most, every other day - as that will help to retain moisture and softness in the curls. Using sulfate-free and silicone-free shampoos and conditioners is also a wonderful idea. Hope that helps!

What SheaMoisture products do you like the most? And could you also tell me if the KCKT has a strong smell and do you find that it lingers on your hair?

lauren_alia
December 21st, 2014, 02:36 PM
I was wondering if you could tell me what the KCKT leave in smells like? Is it a lingering smell that stays on the hair?
It's got a kind of tropical fruity smell. The first ingredient is mango extract, so maybe it's mango I smell, but it also lists "natural fragrance." The smell dissipates pretty quickly actually. I wish it did linger because I really like the scent, but it doesn't. :shrug:

jeanniet
December 21st, 2014, 03:30 PM
Jeanniet-
I'm sorry, I realized my question was kindof dumb because the OP's boyfriend's hair is 2c-3a so of course this would work on a 2c.:doh:

Wow, I can't believe you can run a brush through your hair in 5 seconds!!???
Your curls are amazing by the way. They look terrific.:D

Not a dumb question at all. Hair does vary within hair type, so it's really a pretty good question. As I said, with you having fine/thin hair, I'd use a really light touch as you figure things out. You don't want to weigh your hair down with too much. I actually think Shea Moisture products would be too much for you. CurlyGrace has pretty tight curls. The KCKT might be a better choice. It's a great detangler, for sure. Smells nice, tropical and fruity.

Annalouise
December 21st, 2014, 04:07 PM
It's got a kind of tropical fruity smell. The first ingredient is mango extract, so maybe it's mango I smell, but it also lists "natural fragrance." The smell dissipates pretty quickly actually. I wish it did linger because I really like the scent, but it doesn't. :shrug:

Ok, that's good if it dissipates quickly for me, because I don't like having smelly hair.:)


Not a dumb question at all. Hair does vary within hair type, so it's really a pretty good question. As I said, with you having fine/thin hair, I'd use a really light touch as you figure things out. You don't want to weigh your hair down with too much. I actually think Shea Moisture products would be too much for you. CurlyGrace has pretty tight curls. The KCKT might be a better choice. It's a great detangler, for sure. Smells nice, tropical and fruity.

Thanks for the warning. I was thinking about trying SheaMoisture products but I didn't buy them because I know they are for curlier hair than mine and I didn't know if it would work on me. And it costs about 10$ a bottle so I didn't want to waste money.
I'll probably try the KCKT in the future. I've had it on my 'wish list' at iherb for awhile now. That and some 'hair vitamins'.:p
Yes you are right, my fine thin hair gets weighed down in a second. So I'll have to find the right products.

jeanniet
December 21st, 2014, 04:44 PM
Ok, that's good if it dissipates quickly for me, because I don't like having smelly hair.:)



Thanks for the warning. I was thinking about trying SheaMoisture products but I didn't buy them because I know they are for curlier hair than mine and I didn't know if it would work on me. And it costs about 10$ a bottle so I didn't want to waste money.
I'll probably try the KCKT in the future. I've had it on my 'wish list' at iherb for awhile now. That and some 'hair vitamins'.:p
Yes you are right, my fine thin hair gets weighed down in a second. So I'll have to find the right products.

It's really all experimentation, so try not to get frustrated. It took me about six months to figure out a basic routine. I hope you find that detangling in the shower is gentler on your hair. And thank you for the compliment; it's very sweet of you. BTW, I've gotten far more compliments on my hair in 18ish months of a curly routine than I did in a lifetime of trying to tame it.

Annalouise
December 21st, 2014, 05:06 PM
It's really all experimentation, so try not to get frustrated. It took me about six months to figure out a basic routine. I hope you find that detangling in the shower is gentler on your hair. And thank you for the compliment; it's very sweet of you. BTW, I've gotten far more compliments on my hair in 18ish months of a curly routine than I did in a lifetime of trying to tame it.

I can believe it! Curls are so pretty. And you're welcome! Thank YOU for helping me to get curlier hair!

I HAVE to tell you about my experience today. After shampooing my scalp (I use a gentle soap based shampoo, I use Aubrey Organics products for DRY hair) I SLATHERED conditioner on my head from root to tip....SLATHERED! Then I combed it with a detangling shower comb. When I got out of the shower I didn't use a towel and I plopped my hair in a t-shirt. Then I scrunched my hair with the t-shirt. I didn't use ANY leave in. And I didn't even leave conditioner in my hair (I forgot). WELL...OH MY GOD! I have curls popping out of my head ABOVE my eyebrows!! Way up there!

I can't believe how curly my hair is from doing that ONE shower routine! OH MY GOODNESS! AMAZING difference.

Wow. This is going to be an interesting experiment.:D

CitrusGirrl
December 21st, 2014, 05:46 PM
I'm loving reading your updates guys, thank you!

Daniel reports that his hair is much softer but a little greasy at the top. I think he worked coconut oil into the canopy and the length so this probably just means he should just do the length. He's keeping it braided at all times to keep tangles down too.

Thanks again for your help. I'll be telling him all about the CG routine when I see him for Christmas :-)

jeanniet
December 21st, 2014, 05:58 PM
I can believe it! Curls are so pretty. And you're welcome! Thank YOU for helping me to get curlier hair!

I HAVE to tell you about my experience today. After shampooing my scalp (I use a gentle soap based shampoo, I use Aubrey Organics products for DRY hair) I SLATHERED conditioner on my head from root to tip....SLATHERED! Then I combed it with a detangling shower comb. When I got out of the shower I didn't use a towel and I plopped my hair in a t-shirt. Then I scrunched my hair with the t-shirt. I didn't use ANY leave in. And I didn't even leave conditioner in my hair (I forgot). WELL...OH MY GOD! I have curls popping out of my head ABOVE my eyebrows!! Way up there!

I can't believe how curly my hair is from doing that ONE shower routine! OH MY GOODNESS! AMAZING difference.

Wow. This is going to be an interesting experiment.:D

Sounds like you're curlier than you thought! Welcome to the world of the formerly deluded. ;) You don't have to leave any conditioner in if you think this works for you. In your case, I'd say leave in is very optional and should be minimal at best. And please post a pic if you get a chance.

lapushka
December 21st, 2014, 05:59 PM
And just for you: a pic of my hair after three days of sleeping on it, exposure to rain and wind, NO detangling, and basically ignoring it because I just finished finals and have been busy getting ready for Christmas and having family here. Looks pretty tangled and frizzed up and even a little matted, right? The reason I'm posting such a ratty picture is because I just finished washing my hair, and I was very careful to keep my fingers out of it so that I could count for you exactly how long it took to run my brush through it: 5 seconds. After three days of not doing any kind of detangling, I had no tangles at all. That's because the curls hold together, and although they might frizz up some, they don't tangle. Granted, my hair is shorter (although there's about 4" of shrinkage), but until I started this routine I always had tangles, no matter the length. So enjoy my ratty hair pic!

http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu150/edmjt63/df309321-cc8b-4d81-bb1c-2f9dc92d44dc.jpg

Jeanniet, that really is wonderful! Gorgeous head of curls! :D

jeanniet
December 21st, 2014, 06:04 PM
I can believe it! Curls are so pretty. And you're welcome! Thank YOU for helping me to get curlier hair!

I HAVE to tell you about my experience today. After shampooing my scalp (I use a gentle soap based shampoo, I use Aubrey Organics products for DRY hair) I SLATHERED conditioner on my head from root to tip....SLATHERED! Then I combed it with a detangling shower comb. When I got out of the shower I didn't use a towel and I plopped my hair in a t-shirt. Then I scrunched my hair with the t-shirt. I didn't use ANY leave in. And I didn't even leave conditioner in my hair (I forgot). WELL...OH MY GOD! I have curls popping out of my head ABOVE my eyebrows!! Way up there!

I can't believe how curly my hair is from doing that ONE shower routine! OH MY GOODNESS! AMAZING difference.

Wow. This is going to be an interesting experiment.:D

Sounds like you're curlier than you thought! Welcome to the world of the formerly deluded. ;) You don't have to leave any conditioner in if you think this works for you. In your case, I'd say leave in is very optional and should be minimal at best. And please post a pic if you get a chance.

Annalouise
December 21st, 2014, 07:30 PM
Jeanniet, I don't have any leave-in at present, but if I'm lucky I think Santa might bring me some.:D

Here is a picture after 1 curly girl attempt:
sorry to OP- I'm not trying to hyjack your thread honest....I hope you don't mind me posting my results here...:)
I think after I get some leave in or gel it might even get better. You can see I need some leave-in on my head where
it is still quite frizzy.

picture removed.

jeanniet
December 21st, 2014, 09:01 PM
Jeanniet, that really is wonderful! Gorgeous head of curls! :D

Haha, thanks, I think it looks pretty bad, but that's about as bad as it gets.

Annalouise, I wasn't very clear. By "leave in" I simply meant "conditioner you leave in," and not necessarily something officially labeled "leave in." I don't think it really matters. My products:

Suave Naturals Tropical Coconut (washing and refreshing in the morning)
Suave Naturals Everlasting Sunshine (leave in)
LA Looks Gel (Wet Look or Sport)
distilled water

I wash with the Tropical Coconut, scrubbing my scalp a bit with my fingers. Rinse. Flip head over (I learned this by trial and error; it helps my curls clump better and reduces frizz) and rake/scrunch about a tablespoon of Everlasting Sunshine (I have quite a lot of hair). Brush through with Denman. Rake/scrunch about a tablespoon of gel. Then I scrunch gently with a flour sack towel and plop. I plop partly to remove excess water, and partly to keep my hair contained while I get dressed. Then I take out the plop, diffuse upside down for a few minutes, turn upright and clip my roots a bit for lift (I use claw clips--because my hair is heavy, my roots go flat without clipping) and diffuse a couple more minutes. In all, I probably diffuse 5-10 minutes--I hate drying my hair and can hardly stand doing it that long, but it seems to help my hair dry faster overall. Then I just let it air dry the rest of the way, or sleep on it overnight. When it's more or less dry, I flip my head over, shake it a bit, and flip back. It sounds like it takes a long time, but start to finish, from getting ready to shower to finishing diffusing only takes 30 minutes. On days I don't wash I just run a little conditioner/water over my hair, flip over and shake to fluff it up, and that's it.

This wouldn't all be appropriate for you, Annalouise. I just wrote it out as an example that might be helpful, so you and the OP can see that it doesn't have to be complicated (I know it looks complicated, lol, but it's really not). It's really just wash-leave in-gel-plop-diffuse.

CitrusGirrl
December 22nd, 2014, 01:48 AM
This is definitely not a thread hijack, it's all relevant :-) And I'm enjoying learning about all your lovely curly heads!

LadyCelestina
December 22nd, 2014, 07:08 AM
jeanniet,thank you.Yes I remember some pretty crazy things,but that is because I feel anxious when posting in threads especially in reply to someone :lol: This forum is actually pretty amazing as posting there is just so comfortable.Not to get off topic.
Yes I must have misinterpreted what you said,I think it was something along the lines that your routine at hip took as much time as it does now so I just sort of assumed you did CG at hip :lol: I'm sorry.

LadyCelestina
December 22nd, 2014, 09:23 AM
I read back some pages and well,feel a bit sad about my hair right now since it just doesn't fit the standard care,and feel like I shouldn't give advice to people because of that .I did all this you described until around APL or BSL,in fact if someone would be looking at old posts of mine,it would be just echoing the cg book.Then it just stopped working.So it's not like I'm new to CG and not willing to accept a different haircare approach- I tried it and it didn't work... past a certain point.

Annalouise
December 22nd, 2014, 10:44 AM
Jeanniet - thanks! That is not complicated I don't think. It's easier than combing and brushing all the time.
This morning I spritzed my hair with rose water and scrunched it and it helped activate the curls after sleeping.
I'm losing much less hair and that is the critical thing for me.:)
I'm going to try your tip of scrunching upside down.

Did you lose more hair when you were combing and brushing your hair dry? I wonder if curly or wurly hair is more prone to being pulled out with brushing?

CitrusGirrl- good thread anyways, I'm glad you asked these questions. Let us know how your boyfriend progresses too. I didn't say this yet but he has gorgeous hair. So thick and black! I love black hair.

jeanniet
December 22nd, 2014, 02:19 PM
I read back some pages and well,feel a bit sad about my hair right now since it just doesn't fit the standard care,and feel like I shouldn't give advice to people because of that .I did all this you described until around APL or BSL,in fact if someone would be looking at old posts of mine,it would be just echoing the cg book.Then it just stopped working.So it's not like I'm new to CG and not willing to accept a different haircare approach- I tried it and it didn't work... past a certain point.

I don't think there's a standard that works for everyone! So if you have ideas, especially if it's something different, it may be helpful to someone. I went through a lot of trial and error before I started figuring things out, and even now I'm still trying to perfect and streamline. There are also changes with length. I'm sure I'd have to change things quite a bit if I was back around waist. I'm growing out a couple more inches, so I have more options to put it up, but I doubt I'll grow much longer. My biggest complaint about long hair was how long it took to dry, and I'm just not interested in dealing with constantly wet hair again. It's bad enough now, but at least if I wash in the morning I can expect it to be dry in the early afternoon.


Jeanniet - thanks! That is not complicated I don't think. It's easier than combing and brushing all the time.
This morning I spritzed my hair with rose water and scrunched it and it helped activate the curls after sleeping.
I'm losing much less hair and that is the critical thing for me.:)
I'm going to try your tip of scrunching upside down.

Did you lose more hair when you were combing and brushing your hair dry? I wonder if curly or wurly hair is more prone to being pulled out with brushing?

CitrusGirrl- good thread anyways, I'm glad you asked these questions. Let us know how your boyfriend progresses too. I didn't say this yet but he has gorgeous hair. So thick and black! I love black hair.

I lost a ton more hair combing and brushing dry, and also when using shampoo. Right now I get a little wad of hair in the shower, but that's only every few days. I used to get an equivalent amount daily, easily, and probably more. I think most of it was more due to the shampoo, though. Shampoo doesn't agree with my scalp at all. But some was probably also breaking, and just more pulling/manipulating.

lapushka
December 22nd, 2014, 04:11 PM
Haha, thanks, I think it looks pretty bad, but that's about as bad as it gets.

It looks pretty good to me, especially for being day 3 hair!!! (You should see mine on day 3! :lol:)

jeanniet
December 22nd, 2014, 05:03 PM
I dunno. Probably looks worse from the front. :p A lot of curlies also wet and restyle every day, but I don't want to deal with wet hair daily and I sure don't want to have to dry it daily either. A little dampness is OK because it dries within an hour. So I compromise and live with some frizz. I also find that lots of curl will kind of cover up frizz, or that at least it's less noticeable. When we went on a cruise to Alaska this summer--lots of drizzle and wind--I just brought conditioner and gel, no dryer, and figured if my hair looked like hell I'd put a Buff on most of the time. About five or six days in, and my hair was really pouffy and wild--a woman came up and told me it looked great, and then as she walked away with her friend I heard her comment on how awesome my hair was. It was such a great feeling, not just because I thought it looked pretty messy, but because all my life no one has really ever told me that, unless I was straight from the stylist with my hair blown out. So it just about made my year.

Annalouise
December 22nd, 2014, 05:45 PM
....

I lost a ton more hair combing and brushing dry, and also when using shampoo. Right now I get a little wad of hair in the shower, but that's only every few days. I used to get an equivalent amount daily, easily, and probably more. I think most of it was more due to the shampoo, though. Shampoo doesn't agree with my scalp at all. But some was probably also breaking, and just more pulling/manipulating.

Interesting that shampoo also made you shed more. So you don't have to use shampoo at all? You just CO all the time? Don't you get buildup?

jeanniet
December 22nd, 2014, 06:52 PM
I use a sulfate-free shampoo maybe every four months, and then I usually do a chelating shampoo once a year or so. Otherwise no, I don't shampoo. I really don't seem to get buildup, but I think the trick is to find products that work with your hair. Some ingredients cause me big buildup problems--mostly cones--so I avoid those.

LadyCelestina
December 23rd, 2014, 05:17 AM
I don't think there's a standard that works for everyone! So if you have ideas, especially if it's something different, it may be helpful to someone. I went through a lot of trial and error before I started figuring things out, and even now I'm still trying to perfect and streamline. There are also changes with length. I'm sure I'd have to change things quite a bit if I was back around waist. I'm growing out a couple more inches, so I have more options to put it up, but I doubt I'll grow much longer. My biggest complaint about long hair was how long it took to dry, and I'm just not interested in dealing with constantly wet hair again. It's bad enough now, but at least if I wash in the morning I can expect it to be dry in the early afternoon.


(will post then resize)
Thanks for cheering me up about it! Your hair is going to be very beautiful in updo's,I really like updo's where it's really apparent that the hair is curly :flower:.And yes drying the hair is super annoying,especially if you don't want to mess up the curls and it's winter.

I took a pic which illustrates the effects I get with BBB that make me think for some curl types,it might give an effect of smoothing rather than frizz.Of course,some of the difference is due to lighting,but a lot of it is the BBB.

This is basically day 1 hair,washed in the evening and let out of sleep braid in the morning.You can see defined curls and some frizz popping out of them.If I left it like this for days,they would frizz within these clumps.
http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab50/Celestial-flight/winterhair_zps386bd67a.jpg (http://s848.photobucket.com/user/Celestial-flight/media/winterhair_zps386bd67a.jpg.html)

This is my hair today,washed on Sunday.You can see some fluff from the brushing,but overall it looks pretty okay.The BBB picks up sebum and moves it down the hair.If I did this straight after a wash,I would probably get a lot more fluff and less shine,since I'd have little sebum to pick up.Sebum is a gross word.
http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab50/Celestial-flight/PC230184_zps97c21be7.jpg?t=1419246609

Annalouise
December 23rd, 2014, 08:50 AM
LadyCelestina - to die for hair! Lovely. Do you only brush your hair on day 2 or 3 when it is more oily?
Why did cg method stop working or you?

LadyCelestina
December 23rd, 2014, 10:47 AM
Thank you,that so nice :flower: ,yes I don't typically brush straight after a wash because my hair is detangled,not oily and has defined curls which I like to keep until it's time to braid it :lol:

I had a really long reply,but deleted it.It was a gradual process of me modifying so many things in the routine that it was no longer CG. They are mostly related to length and laziness. I had tangles so I learned how to detangle. I had scalp issues so I took some steps to clear them up.I had sticky hair from leave in so I changed what I used as a leave in.I had trouble managing my gelled hair (putting it up and such) so I stopped using gel. I had hair that took ages to dry so I learned how to shorten the time it took to dry.

Annalouise
December 23rd, 2014, 11:50 AM
Thank you,that so nice :flower: ,yes I don't typically brush straight after a wash because my hair is detangled,not oily and has defined curls which I like to keep until it's time to braid it :lol:

I had a really long reply,but deleted it.It was a gradual process of me modifying so many things in the routine that it was no longer CG. They are mostly related to length and laziness. I had tangles so I learned how to detangle. I had scalp issues so I took some steps to clear them up.I had sticky hair from leave in so I changed what I used as a leave in.I had trouble managing my gelled hair (putting it up and such) so I stopped using gel. I had hair that took ages to dry so I learned how to shorten the time it took to dry.

You deleted your long reply! Waaaa..lol:p
I can understand why your hair would take a long time to airdry. And if you live in a cold climate one can't be walking around with wet and damp hair all the time or you will get sick.
I was wondering, did you return to shampoo due to scalp issues?
Your hair looks like it would be difficult to detangle with a comb dry.

Annalouise
December 23rd, 2014, 11:53 AM
double post..oops

LadyCelestina
December 23rd, 2014, 02:12 PM
Hehe I spent nearly half an hour on it,then decided it's just a bunch of complaints and should be re-phrased into something more elegant :lol:

I don't remember why I started using shampoo again,but I definitely had scalp issues when I co-washed only,I just ... let them.Maybe they didn't even seem like issues to me back then.

I don't detangle with a comb,I finger detangle,then carefully run a comb through detangled hair (maybe :P sometimes I don't bother,especially since my wooden comb is currently not home xD).Combs for me are for detecting small knots,not detangling.
I have never timed how long I spend detangling my hair everyday,but if I'm carefully detangling dry everyday (or so) and wearing my hair up,my shower time is 20 minutes,whereas if I wait till wash to deal with the knots it can go up to an hour,broken hair,and lots of frustration.
There definitely are people who can go days without needing to detangle their hair,but if you need to detangle between washes,and can do so without having massive frizz,then why not.You'll likely cause more damage detangling knotted hair in the shower than you would detangling dry in between washes - if you're careful with it.

Of course if you have really tangled hair it's better to detangle it in the shower with plenty of conditioner as soon as possible.

MINAKO
December 23rd, 2014, 04:25 PM
two things... lay off the brush and find the right kind of comb to use on wet or damp hair and oil, oil, oil! either heavily once a week or a lightly on a daily basis.
i dont wanna jump to the conclusion that nobody with curly or wavy hair should use shampoo and go full on CG, but sulphate free and dilluted sure would be a good idea. otherwise it really just depends on finding the right product to ensure moisture levels and keeping the friction low. it all adds up at the end of the day. tho i often think guys with long hair prevent alot of damage simply by playing less with it. thats the spirit, haha.

Annalouise
December 23rd, 2014, 04:40 PM
Lady Celestina-
Hey, what's wrong with complaining? I do it all the time!:p (According to my husband anyways).:D
Your hair is so thick I can see why you get a lot of tangles. That must be difficult. Tangles are very frustrating.
I'm definitely getting a lot less now that I'm slathering my hair with conditioner.
I'm a bit reluctant to do CO only because I like a really clean scalp with no residue on it. I find I get an itchy scalp very easily.
Even when I put conditioner on my head I don't swish it around so that it penetrates to my scalp.
And I use a diluted soap based cleanser so that's ok. I would NEVER use sulphates. They have destroyed my hair in the past. Split end city!

LadyCelestina
December 24th, 2014, 03:08 AM
Nothings wrong with complaining, but I complain so often I worry some day,someone will reply with a detailed response to my complaints xD So I try not to :D
My hair is not that thick really,there are people with much thicker hair on this forum.I think my hair tangles due to having different textures,since most tangles are located in places where they meet.
Adequate conditioning definitely helps with tangles.If you can dig up posts by Firefox or meteor somewhere,there's some good info on what kind of conditioner you should choose,just a completely off topic tip since it helped me a lot when picking stuff at the drugstore :lol:

I have little experience with shedding so I am afraid I can't say anything :/ There are people who don't CO and do the CG method...One thing you can do is scalp washing with your length tucked away,rinsing,then conditioning the length.

Halliday
December 24th, 2014, 03:57 AM
Lady Celestina, your hair is beautiful!

LadyCelestina
December 24th, 2014, 09:45 AM
Lady Celestina, your hair is beautiful!
Thank you :flower:

Annalouise
December 24th, 2014, 11:06 AM
Nothings wrong with complaining, but I complain so often I worry some day,someone will reply with a detailed response to my complaints xD So I try not to :D
My hair is not that thick really,there are people with much thicker hair on this forum.I think my hair tangles due to having different textures,since most tangles are located in places where they meet.
Adequate conditioning definitely helps with tangles.If you can dig up posts by Firefox or meteor somewhere,there's some good info on what kind of conditioner you should choose,just a completely off topic tip since it helped me a lot when picking stuff at the drugstore :lol:

I have little experience with shedding so I am afraid I can't say anything :/ There are people who don't CO and do the CG method...One thing you can do is scalp washing with your length tucked away,rinsing,then conditioning the length.

Ok, I'll check out their posts. Thanks! It's an experiment at this point. My hair is so fine and thin that conditioner will easily weigh it down.
So we'll have to see how this works out. Perhaps a volumizing or lightweight conditioner would be the best.

CitrusGirrl
December 26th, 2014, 02:13 PM
So a week in and it seems that leaving coconut oil in its too heavy for his hair. It sort of felt dry and greasy at the same time, weirdly. Today he has tried oiling first, then minimal shampoo and then lots of conditioner only semi washed out. Then he let me put it in a three braid style inspired by Ragnar Lothbrok from Vikings *swoon*