Desperate for manageability and adding water soluble silicones to conditioner

[pinchbeck]

Through reading about water soluble silicones it occurred to me adding them to my hair products might be easier than trying to find a product that contains them. Below are water soluble silicones I've come across. If there are more, please add them to this thread:



Any Silicone with PEG as a prefix

Dimethicone Copolyol

Hydrolyzed wheat protein (Hydroxypropyl Polysiloxane)

Lauryl Methicone Copolyol

Cyclomethicone


Daily detangling creates mechanical damage. Would adding one of the above ingredients to my conditioner help? I live in a hard water area and do clarify with Abba's Detox Shampoo (contains EDTA so doubles as a chelating product I think). My hair is virgin, gets oiled (without oil my hair snaps when combing), and doesn't come into contact with heat styling tools.

Which cone would be the best choice? At what percent should it be added to have the best effectiveness? I am leaning toward cyclomethicone and will order it online.

[meteor]

I'll be watching this thread. Sounds like an interesting experiment.

I wish I could be of help, but I'm not a chemist and I really wouldn't mess with formulations too much, not so much because it's dangerous, but mostly because all that trial and error with different types of cones, proportions, stability issues... would probably end up being a lot more expensive than just finding the products that work.
(I do like adding oils, silk/keratin proteins and other goodies to conditioner, but I don't add silicones, as they can be found in many cheap products already.)

[Panth]

I wouldn't go about adding things to commercial products. You are liable to upset the pH balance and there may be adverse reactions between the ingredients and the stuff you add, which may may the ingredients not work properly. Why not just get a good conditioner with water-soluble 'cones in? I use L'Oreal Elvive 5 Restore conditioner, which has PEG-cones in.

(Also, hydrolysed wheat protein is not a 'cone. It's protein. Dimethicone copolyol is not necessarily water soluble, depending on how it is modified (http://www.tightlycurly.com/ingredients/dimethicone_copolyol). Cyclomethicone is not water soluble either, though it slowly evaporates (http://jillipoo.blogspot.co.uk/2009/09/silicones-polyquats-and-soap.html) so supposedly does not build up. Also, just because a product contains EDTA doesn't mean that it's chelating. The concentration matters. Low-concentration EDTA is often used as a stabiliser and is found in many cosmetics for this reason. It isn't clarifying at that concentration, though.)

[pinchbeck]

^^ Great info! Thanks for the clarification. I didn't think hydrolysed wheat protein was a cone but included it because it was part of a list someone had written that I copied & pasted. I also read that cylomethicone evaporates - but then it occurred to me just now if it evaporates does it mean its ability to smooth the hair cuticle is compromised?

Are all commercial products ph balanced? It would be nice to find a commercial product that doesn't contain any quaternaries along with a water soluble cone that I do want!. Quats don't work in my hair. I will look into L'Oreal's ingredients.

[Jac]

One of my HG conditioners is Garnier Fructis Hydra Recharge Conditioner. It's got one water soluble silicone: Lauryl PEG/PPG-18/18 Methicone. I use it as a rinse out and as a leave in. As a leave in it works great, I get a light 'cone effect without worrying about build up. Stops my dry, dye-damaged ends from turning to velcro, haha. If you can find it in your area I'd definitely recommend giving it a try.

I definitely feel your pain tho, its hard to find products with only water soluble silicones and no other heavier cones mixed in. :(

[Panth]

^^ Great info! Thanks for the clarification. I didn't think hydrolysed wheat protein was a cone but included it because it was part of a list someone had written that I copied & pasted. I also read that cylomethicone evaporates - but then it occurred to me just now if it evaporates does it mean its ability to smooth the hair cuticle is compromised?

Are all commercial products ph balanced? It would be nice to find a commercial product that doesn't contain any quaternaries along with a water soluble cone that I do want!. Quats don't work in my hair. I will look into L'Oreal's ingredients.

Some people on the internet do write rubbish, though. ;) It's best to check several sources to weed out the stupid.

I'm not sure how quickly cycolmethicone evaporates. Presumably the point is that you're supposed to apply it regularly. However, LHC "regularly" and the rest of the world's "regularly" are not exactly the same thing!

Yes. All commercial products except shampoo bars are of a pH that is good for scalp and hair ("pH balanced" is a marketing phrase that doesn't really mean anything - what is important is the actual pH, i.e. acidity or alkalinity). Shampoo bars, like all soap, are alkaline and for this reason many people think they're actually quite bad for hair. You may like to read these lists of the pH of shampoos (http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/02/ph-of-shampoo-ultimate-list.html), pH of conditioners (http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/02/ph-of-conditioners.html) and pH of leave-ins (http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/03/ph-of-leave-in-conditioners-and-styling.html).

[pinchbeck]

Some people on the internet do write rubbish, though. ;) It's best to check several sources to weed out the stupid.

It seems the person who wrote "Hydrolyzed wheat protein (hydroxypropyl polysiloxane)" was correct that this is a cone as she didn't write the hydrolized wheat protein by itself. I've done further reading on this and found out. Good to know - links below:

https://www.nenonatural.com/hair-blog/-water-soluble-vs-non-soluble-silicones-found-in-hair-products

http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=55058

[pinchbeck]

Double post. It's my computer - not me!

[Halliday]

I'll be watching this thread. Sounds like an interesting experiment.

I wish I could be of help, but I'm not a chemist and I really wouldn't mess with formulations too much, not so much because it's dangerous, but mostly because all that trial and error with different types of cones, proportions, stability issues... would probably end up being a lot more expensive than just finding the products that work.
(I do like adding oils, silk/keratin proteins and other goodies to conditioner, but I don't add silicones, as they can be found in many cheap products already.)

Yep. I would probably be such a fail at this. I'm awful at chemistry anyway.