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LongHairLesbian
December 9th, 2014, 02:26 PM
I already don't like King of Queens, but this episode really annoyed me. The main character acts so entitled and obnoxious about his wife's desire to wear her hair in a bun, as if she is required to look "sexy" for him all the time. He says that buns make a woman look like an uptight librarian, like an old woman, ugly and unfeminine. His wife couldn't look anything other than beautiful if she tried, and the bun looks very professional and comfortable to wear. Urg it's so irritating, even if you don't love it, it's her hair, and she's happy and comfortable with a bun. Do any of the folks here encounter attitudes like this, or have partners with similar opinions?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXXffkDb77Q

xsweetpotatox
December 9th, 2014, 02:37 PM
That video wasn't available in my country (the US), but here's a link that worked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGl2PDiqtZc.

That bun looks great on her! And, I mean, I understand him having preferences, but he's so rude about expressing them!

MsPharaohMoan
December 9th, 2014, 03:06 PM
I already don't like King of Queens, but this episode really annoyed me. The main character acts so entitled and obnoxious about his wife's desire to wear her hair in a bun, as if she is required to look "sexy" for him all the time. He says that buns make a woman look like an uptight librarian, like an old woman, ugly and unfeminine. His wife couldn't look anything other than beautiful if she tried, and the bun looks very professional and comfortable to wear. Urg it's so irritating, even if you don't love it, it's her hair, and she's happy and comfortable with a bun. Do any of the folks here encounter attitudes like this, or have partners with similar opinions?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXXffkDb77Q

Intervention thread! :D

Puffer Fish
December 9th, 2014, 03:11 PM
I used to watch that show sometimes since it was on when I got home from high school; it seems to be one of those shows where the following seems to occasionally be the plot: "women doing things that aren't exclusively for men's enjoyment? hilarious!!"
[/mini-rant]

Stiria
December 9th, 2014, 03:15 PM
Keep in mind that this is a very stupid show, with very stupid characters. Especially Doug is supposed to be an idiot, right?

I didn't watch the whole ting. Way too annoying!

Sarahlabyrinth
December 9th, 2014, 03:30 PM
I get those kind of remarks from my sister.

Stiria
December 9th, 2014, 03:43 PM
I get those kind of remarks from my sister.

:grouphug:

prankdemon
December 9th, 2014, 03:47 PM
I hated that show. Bun looks great on her. And funnily enough my SO prefers buns over wearing my hair down, though he never makes a point of it. ^^

Sarah, have you ever told your sister that her comments make you feel bad?

Madora
December 9th, 2014, 03:49 PM
Keep in mind that this is a very stupid show, with very stupid characters. Especially Doug is supposed to be an idiot, right?

I didn't watch the whole ting. Way too annoying!

An excellent critique, Stiria! Why waste electricity on something as insipid as that?!

As far as buns in general...yes, they do have a dowdy reputation to fight. Buns are associated with frustrated, uptight, mean ole librarians..or old school marms. Stereotyped, that's what they are. No one realizes that buns can look spectacular if done right. Look at Torrin Paige's Hawser bun! So many bun choices...but people are fixated on scraped back. mean old lady bun. They need their horizons expanded!

Sarahlabyrinth
December 9th, 2014, 03:51 PM
I hated that show. Bun looks great on her. And funnily enough my SO prefers buns over wearing my hair down, though he never makes a point of it. ^^

Sarah, have you ever told your sister that her comments make you feel bad?

Yes. She is convinced that she knows best what looks good on me.

wilderwein
December 9th, 2014, 03:59 PM
I once read an artcle wich actually mentioned that guys prefer women with hair up, becouse the neck is showing and it works kinda as a turn on for them! Wich makes sense! I dont believe tho that a man's preference on a female will be based on her hairstyle! i would agree if we talk about haircolor, but hairstyle its just a hairstyle! And if you actually like your gf wife etc you will like her either with her hair up or down! So without even know about that show I just believe that the author its so talantless wich makes him write stupid things only to complete new episodes.... like the new stupid meaningless songs wich talk about butts and stuff!

Stiria
December 9th, 2014, 04:17 PM
I once read an artcle wich actually mentioned that guys prefer women with hair up, becouse the neck is showing and it works kinda as a turn on for them! Wich makes sense!

I have heard several guys say so too. I guess the moral of the story is this: You can't please everyone, so wear your hair however you like.

wilderwein
December 9th, 2014, 04:22 PM
Stiria EXACTLY! and at least you will please the right people! If someone will judge based of your hairstyle then its not even worth it to try and please him by letting your hair down or putting them up!

gthlvrmx
December 9th, 2014, 04:23 PM
I actually love this show but I thought this episode was way over exaggerated. It was just a simple bun and Doug made a whole scene over it. It's just a bun.

Sarahlabyrinth
December 9th, 2014, 05:23 PM
It's funny isn't it, that you never hear negative remarks about ballerinas wearing buns...

AmberJewel
December 9th, 2014, 06:14 PM
^ I have the exact same problem with my mom. I love her, and she does give good advice at times, but she's convinced that buns are for very old ladies only.

teddygirl
December 9th, 2014, 06:57 PM
It's a tv show. All tv shows are quite exaggerated to make their point. I wouldn't get so upset about it. As someone else said, buns have a 'dowdy' reputation. I personally feel less attractive with my hair in a bun, because I prefer having it down.

LunaLuvsU
December 9th, 2014, 07:20 PM
Thats casual sexism for ya. Why they continue to allow crap like this on TV, or anywhere for that matter, baffles me.

DreamSheep
December 9th, 2014, 07:28 PM
Bit stupid honestly - especially as he does little for his own appearance.
Glad she stood up for herself at the start, bit sad she swayed at the end. And agreed, she looked fantastic with and without the bun.

Fortunately my boyfriend likes my hair up and down, he thinks it is very elegant up and very 'sexy' down

chen bao jun
December 9th, 2014, 07:52 PM
My husband doesn't like my hair in buns. I haven't seen that episode though I have seen the show before, I had no special feelings about it. (I don't like tv in general much). I feel that my husband has a right not to like my hair in buns and that it is flattering that he thinks my hair is beautiful and wants to see it. I do like to please him so am currently struggling with wearing my hair down sometimes which I don't feel like too much at the moment. but he does things for me too, like wear a beard which I love but he doesn't like.

chen bao jun
December 9th, 2014, 08:41 PM
I just saw the episode and retract previous post. Unbelievably obnoxious. ...

Lyv
December 10th, 2014, 03:45 AM
I don't watch the show and don't plan to watch the clip. I tend to think everything (that I've seen) from the show is obnoxious so I know it'll annoy me no matter what. My husband doesn't like buns at all. When I cut my hair and said I was going to grow it out he asked me to not wear it up all the time once it was long again. I didn't really mind him telling me he didn't like it, I have preferences for the way he wears his hair too.

CurlMonster
December 10th, 2014, 06:35 AM
I agree it was sexist. The guy seems to do little for his appearance and his wife clearly doesn't think his clothing etc looks good, but that's okay - however if he thinks she looks at all unattractive (which of course she doesn't, she's beautiful the whole time) then it's a big drama and he can't deal!

schnibbles
December 10th, 2014, 08:34 AM
I remember this episode! (I didn't even need to watch the clip :o ) Leah Remini is gorgeous and can wear anything she wants.

My husband does not like my hair in a bun at all. Which is basically how I wear it all the time now. At hip + it gets caught on everything. If we go out for drinks or to dinner I'll wear it down.
Last night we were watching TV and he took my hair stick out to look at it, and he goes "wow, you really do have a lot of hair. It's heavy too" :rolleyes: So I said "uumm... yeah and it gets into everything. This is why I wear it up most of the time. Get it?" I think the lightbulb came on. He sees my hair everyday but I don't think he really understands what it's like to have almost 3 feet of hair (which doesn't seem long to me at all) trying to strangle you. I feel like it was a Teachable Moment.
Here is a silly meme I made awhile ago:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee165/Buttercup_9/48419164_zpsf15177fa.jpg

chen bao jun
December 10th, 2014, 08:49 AM
The part I hated was when he didn't lose weight so decided she had to come along and look great. Also where he saw the guy looking at her button and turned her around to give a better view. I don't think anyone should use anyone else to build their own self esteem. Or anyway, I sure don't want to be used like that in a relationship. I am what you would call nice looking but worse, I have looks that are considered as a 'trophy ' by men in my ethnic group, and it's an awful feeling to be considered like a Porsche, not only because it's awful but what happens when you get a ding or when they put out the new model and you are outmoded? Definitely married hubby at least in part because he talks to me and considers me to be a person and not arm candy.

AmyBeth
December 10th, 2014, 10:22 AM
I think that old stereotypes die hard. When was the last time any of us saw an old lady with a bun, anyway? That is something I'll bet most of us don't really even see every day. Isn't the present stereotype that old ladies wear their hair in a blue helmet head hairstyle?:rolleyes: If we're really going to insist on "classifying" people, we should at least keep the classifications up to date (heavy sarcasm, folks).

pearlsandpinups
December 10th, 2014, 10:39 AM
I think that old stereotypes die hard. When was the last time any of us saw an old lady with a bun, anyway? That is something I'll bet most of us don't really even see every day. Isn't the present stereotype that old ladies wear their hair in a blue helmet head hairstyle?:rolleyes: If we're really going to insist on "classifying" people, we should at least keep the classifications up to date (heavy sarcasm, folks).

Exactly this! I get that the bun=old lady stereotype is not a new one, but I will never understand why it continues to persist when nowadays seeing an older lady with hair long enough TO put into a bun is very rare indeed! I thought we were all "supposed to chop our hair off after 30" anyway? :rolleyes: Hell, the old lady with a bun nowadays is practically a rebel! Definitely not an old marm!

MeowScat
December 10th, 2014, 11:35 AM
Thats casual sexism for ya. Why they continue to allow crap like this on TV, or anywhere for that matter, baffles me.


I've never heard that term before, but I like it! That's a good description of this.

Platzhalter
December 10th, 2014, 12:55 PM
Still remember King of Queens as "this weird Sitcom thing" that aired after my daily dose of anime as child on RTLII (German TV channel that has and had almost nothing worth watching). Never dared to actually watch... should be glad about that.

LadyCelestina
December 10th, 2014, 01:45 PM
that's actually not even sexist it's just so dumb...you know how they said she should also tape her breasts or something if she is going to wear her hair in a bun?? meaning that she might as well be less feminine = less sexual-feminine? Well what about long haired guys? What if she doesn't want to look sexy...Seriously I thought it was kind of funny till then but after it just made me feel nauseous so I shut down the window.

OrangeStripe
December 10th, 2014, 02:43 PM
The prejudice against buns is so weird, but I definitely don't think its as crazy and negative as that episode thinks it is. Every single time I see an episode of that I remember how awful and misogynistic it is :( Like so many of these cheap american sitcoms (everybody loves Raymond comes to mind as well) The guy is an ungrateful slob, and the woman is portrayed as mean and shrewish whenever they don't immediately give in to the man's latest stupid idea. I hate those shows so much! /end rant/

sarahthegemini
December 11th, 2014, 12:03 PM
I love King of Queens. And I remember this particular episode as being funny and silly. It's a sitcom - it's supposed to be ridiculous. Why get so worked up over a fictional character's fictional opinion? :-/

lauren_alia
December 11th, 2014, 03:00 PM
I love King of Queens. And I remember this particular episode as being funny and silly. It's a sitcom - it's supposed to be ridiculous. Why get so worked up over a fictional character's fictional opinion? :-/
I think it's more the attitude that the wife has to wear her hair how he wants it regardless of her feelings because that's what makes him happy, and ya know, his preferences are what really matters.... It is fiction, but the attitudes that are portrayed in popular media (movies, tv, music, etc.) influence people's own attitudes and views within the culture. It makes that kind of misogynistic entitlement seem acceptable. That's why it matters.

lapushka
December 11th, 2014, 03:06 PM
I already don't like King of Queens, but this episode really annoyed me. The main character acts so entitled and obnoxious about his wife's desire to wear her hair in a bun, as if she is required to look "sexy" for him all the time. He says that buns make a woman look like an uptight librarian, like an old woman, ugly and unfeminine. His wife couldn't look anything other than beautiful if she tried, and the bun looks very professional and comfortable to wear. Urg it's so irritating, even if you don't love it, it's her hair, and she's happy and comfortable with a bun. Do any of the folks here encounter attitudes like this, or have partners with similar opinions?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXXffkDb77Q

Oh that is such a lousy program in the first place! If that's their idea of comedy, boy what a low low standard. I'm not even taking it serious enough to discuss.

truepeacenik
December 11th, 2014, 06:40 PM
The prejudice against buns is so weird, but I definitely don't think its as crazy and negative as that episode thinks it is. Every single time I see an episode of that I remember how awful and misogynistic it is :( Like so many of these cheap american sitcoms (everybody loves Raymond comes to mind as well) The guy is an ungrateful slob, and the woman is portrayed as mean and shrewish whenever they don't immediately give in to the man's latest stupid idea. I hate those shows so much! /end rant/

I've gone through a lot of exposure to sitcoms since moving to a home with a TV.
My partner suggests that almost all US sitcoms are remakes of The Honeymooners.
Which tells me that it hasn't moved forward since the 1960s.

cat11
December 11th, 2014, 09:14 PM
mainstream american TV has tons of stupid misogynistic themes... I've learned to stay away from it if I don't want to feel depressed about the state of my country :/ Two and a half men is another horrible one. Ugh it makes me mentally cringe.

If you love somebody you just shouldn't give a hoot what they wear their hair like. I like everyone with long hair because..... then you can see their hair. You cant really see it like a mane if it's 1 inch long. It's so much different. To me its like you're missing a part of your body you naturally grow by chopping it off every few weeks... But I tell my SO no matter how they have their hair that they're handsome/beautiful/lovely/sexy. My philosphy with hair is encourage the good things and don't say anything if it isn't nice about the "bad".

edit:
Ok I have to keep ranting because this kind of thing just pisses me off so much. I loathe all the "casual sexism" as another poster said in this country so much. I went to see a "funny" movie one time and ended up crying because of how sexist it was while my boyfreind was laughing. (we're not together anymore...) I hate this type of thing and I hate how a lot of humor in this country is catered to macho-men. (which I'm saying specifically because not all men are like this and some hate it just as much because people assume they are and because it sucks just as much as racism or ageism or anything else)

I wear my hair in a bun all the time and yeah my boyfreind likes seeing it when it's down just like I like to see his hair because I like him and I like his hair, but he hs never said yo should wear it down more, I dont like it like that, ect ect. He compliments my buns and hair stuff and tells me it looks nice. He has long hair too and wears his hair in a messy bun most of the time too. It's just practical..... some people are retards who don't know how to think of others and put themselves in their shoes.


I agree it was sexist. The guy seems to do little for his appearance and his wife clearly doesn't think his clothing etc looks good, but that's okay - however if he thinks she looks at all unattractive (which of course she doesn't, she's beautiful the whole time) then it's a big drama and he can't deal!

RIGHT for real. Ugh. And its so important... because the looks of women are like status symbols for some of the neanderthals in our country (and elsewhere.) Immature ********. 50 yr old men who still act like they're 12 trying to prove their success to people. Some people blow my mind. If you cared about somebody why would you treat them like an object to be shown off.

I want to egg their studio now. I hate people. I hate how souless exucutives who could give a **** less about the world calculatingly profit off of encouraging this garbage.

....I guess Im done. *grumbles off*

sarahthegemini
December 12th, 2014, 06:34 AM
I think it's more the attitude that the wife has to wear her hair how he wants it regardless of her feelings because that's what makes him happy, and ya know, his preferences are what really matters.... It is fiction, but the attitudes that are portrayed in popular media (movies, tv, music, etc.) influence people's own attitudes and views within the culture. It makes that kind of misogynistic entitlement seem acceptable. That's why it matters.

I think people are reading far too much into it. It's as though people want to be offended. I think it's absolutely ridiculous to be quite honest to be up in arms about a situation that hasn't even happened in real life.

[Also, FYI, if anyone watched the show on a regular basis - which I do, so I don't appreciate the 'low standards' comments, get off your pedestal - you'll see that the wife in question does not bow to her husbands preferences a lot]

lapushka
December 12th, 2014, 06:55 AM
[Also, FYI, if anyone watched the show on a regular basis - which I do, so I don't appreciate the 'low standards' comments, get off your pedestal - you'll see that the wife in question does not bow to her husbands preferences a lot]

Excuse me, Miss? Was that directed at me?

sarahthegemini
December 12th, 2014, 10:17 AM
Excuse me, Miss? Was that directed at me?

Enough of the patronising. It was aimed at several.commentors on here, I didn't pay attention to usernames but I've looked back, and yes you were one that I was referring too.

lapushka
December 12th, 2014, 04:45 PM
Enough of the patronising. It was aimed at several.commentors on here, I didn't pay attention to usernames but I've looked back, and yes you were one that I was referring too.

:rolleyes: It won't hurt you to be a little kinder, you know? I'm at least twice, if not three times your age! Miss.

kaydana
December 12th, 2014, 05:34 PM
:rolleyes: It won't hurt you to be a little kinder, you know? I'm at least twice, if not three times your age! Miss.

Since when was that an excuse to talk to someone in such an obnoxiously patronising way?

AmberJewel
December 12th, 2014, 05:40 PM
:guns: Wow. I just drop by this thread occasionally to watch the fur fly. :slap: It's a tv show! I'd never watch it myself, but why get so worked up about it? It's not going to change the show or the people making it or the people watching it. Yes, the stupidity rubs me the wrong way. Hence the not-watching it. But I really don't see the point of getting on here to rip the face off of someone who has a different opinion than you, whether you watch the show or not.

meteor
December 12th, 2014, 05:50 PM
I have never seen this show before, but I decided to check out this video because of so many reactions and... maybe I've got tough skin or I didn't understand the show at all... but I am under the impression that it was explicitly making fun of the guy, not the woman, it presented "the man" like a silly, childish "ape", so to speak. The woman was clearly shown as this lovely, smart woman that she was, the leader and the only grown-up in their family, so I really don't see how it was sexist toward women. It presented the guys like a bunch of shallow losers, so I can sort of see how today's men might get offended by the show's stereotypes of men, if they even bothered to watch it, to be honest. Am I the only one who thinks that those jokes were clearly on the men? I really felt like the laughter in the background was at those guys and their crazy, outdated attitudes. However, I'm not American, so I could be misreading those jokes completely or just giving too much of a benefit of a doubt to the producers. :shrug:

Also, this somewhat annoying video is trying to be comedy, and I always assume that it's ridiculously hard for comedy to be 100% anodyne and safe, so I try not to take offense when none is meant.

pearlsandpinups
December 12th, 2014, 06:19 PM
I have never seen this show before, but I decided to check out this video because of so many reactions and... maybe I've got tough skin or I didn't understand the show at all... but I am under the impression that it was explicitly making fun of the guy, not the woman, it presented "the man" like a silly, childish "ape", so to speak. The woman was clearly shown as this lovely, smart woman that she was, the leader and the only grown-up in their family, so I really don't see how it was sexist toward women. It presented the guys like a bunch of shallow losers, so I can sort of see how today's men might get offended by the show's stereotypes of men, if they even bothered to watch it, to be honest. Am I the only one who thinks that those jokes were clearly on the men? I really felt like the laughter in the background was at those guys and their crazy, outdated attitudes. However, I'm not American, so I could be misreading those jokes completely or just giving too much of a benefit of a doubt to the producers. :shrug:

Also, this somewhat annoying video is trying to be comedy, and I always assume that it's ridiculously hard for comedy to be 100% anodyne and safe, so I try not to take offense when none is meant.

Agreed! I don't think silly sitcoms are something to get so worked up over. To be honest anyway, and this is just my experience, but I don't hear so much "bun hate" or long hair hate from men as I do women or media aimed at women. After all, it's typically women's magazines and editorials where you'll see columns ripping into female celebrities or making lists of "Things NOT to do With Your Hair After 40!!" (Most of which will usually include long long hair.) It's also usually women I hear ragging on other women's hair or saying what other women should or shouldn't do with their hair.

lauren_alia
December 12th, 2014, 07:24 PM
I think people are reading far too much into it. It's as though people want to be offended. I think it's absolutely ridiculous to be quite honest to be up in arms about a situation that hasn't even happened in real life.

[Also, FYI, if anyone watched the show on a regular basis - which I do, so I don't appreciate the 'low standards' comments, get off your pedestal - you'll see that the wife in question does not bow to her husbands preferences a lot]
I don't think I was "up in arms" about anything. Maybe it came across sounding angrier than I meant it, I don't know... I'm certainly not losing any sleep over a dumb TV show, and I would hope no one else is losing sleep over my opinion of said dumb TV show. I was simply trying to make the point that just because a show is fictional, and the characters are fictional doesn't mean it doesn't have any influence on the culture and the way people in that culture think and interact with each other. Not that I think King of Queens is super influential or anything, but I don't see why it's wrong to discuss the themes presented in the show.

Beckstar
December 12th, 2014, 09:23 PM
I like big buns and I cannot lie.... ;)

CousinItt
December 12th, 2014, 09:32 PM
I like big buns and I cannot lie.... ;)
I sing this often :D

Beckstar
December 12th, 2014, 09:36 PM
You other longhairs can't deny... :)

chen bao jun
December 12th, 2014, 09:45 PM
I do think modern TV puts men down much more than women. However, even if the guy was shown as clueless I didn't like this particular episode which I saw not so much as putting down women as putting down buns. I was so mad when she took her bun down after they showed that pic of the librarian who looked like no librarian I ever saw, ugly but with that stylish high bun. I did think the guy was a loser so he had to treat his wife like arm candy. I guess that s my problem with guys who like you for your looks they are LOSERS.
I am not running down people who like this (silly ) show because my husband loves it and loves a lot of silly TV shows and he is not silly, actually he is a genius literally. Has tested with an off the charts I Q. And is a great husband who works hard and treats me well. But he has a silly sense of humor. I say. He says I have no sense of humor. Oh, well.
back on subject, I have never in my life seen an old lady in a bun, even in the fifties and sixties all old ladies had short blue or dyed hair. Never seen a librarian in one either. Only ever see teenagers in messy buns. And back in the 1960s elegant young women wore chignons (usually with fake hair,no one had long hair). The last old lady who had a bun was probably Whistler 's mother. So what is it with this silly stereotype?

CousinItt
December 12th, 2014, 09:57 PM
You other longhairs can't deny... :)
that when a girl walks in with an itty-bitty stick
and a round bun in your face...

Beckstar
December 12th, 2014, 10:24 PM
You get bun envy

truepeacenik
December 13th, 2014, 01:37 AM
I think television over simplifies most relationships.
I also think men and women are put into rigid roles.

One sitcom I did watch from time to time based on access was Will and Grace.
That's throwing gay men into the mix, but the roles were still limiting.
Maybe that the only way producers think comedy can play.

I miss MASH. Now get off my lawn. ;)

lapushka
December 13th, 2014, 05:04 PM
Since when was that an excuse to talk to someone in such an obnoxiously patronising way?

Sorry, but I'm not being patronizing. :)

LongHairLesbian
December 13th, 2014, 07:54 PM
I would agree that it's a supposed to be a silly TV show, but the reason I paid any attention to it is that I do think it points to certain attitudes that are present in real life. A lot of people do see buns as frumpy and unattractive, and associate them with older women and/or librarians. Even if that stereotype doesn't really ring true, it still persists, and is annoying. Everyone is allowed their preferences, but I dislike how buns are instantly thought of as unattractive, or are even seen as a girl "not even trying", i.e. she can't be bothered to look good. I don't think that this show is the absolute worst thing I've ever laid my eyes on, and I never claimed that it was. But I highly dislike watching men act like boorish, entitled, shallow jerks, so I'm unlikely to find any of this show funny. That's my preference, and I'm really not interested in whether someone else likes King of Queens or not.
Side note, I really don't get why people post to a thread, in order to make insulting comments about the people who care to actually engage with the topic. It comes across as pretty nasty and mean spirited. If you think that people are getting worked up over nothing and are wasting their time, why would you bother wasting any of YOUR time on a thread you don't care about? No one is required to only care about the things you care about, so why not just participate in a thread you are interested in, and leave the ones you aren't interested in? :shrug:

Entangled
December 13th, 2014, 08:57 PM
Good point, LHL. In your original post, you did ask about the attitude displayed in the show, and asked for opinions. As for me, I'm young enough to not have encountered the "owning" aspect, though I do think that frumpy old lady comments aren't justified. I do think that both 'sides' of the argument here went a little overboard: some focused on their dislike for the show and its attitude, and in doing so insulted the character of those who watch it. On the other side, people insulted those posting their thoughts as overreacting, belittling them by implying that they were uptight and small minded. Such comments close discussions and open arguments. You asked for a discussion with that clip as a way to get people thinking, but I think some instead focused on the clip as the topic, rather than the evidence of the discussion.

As for me, I'm always a little bit amused and occasionally irritated when letting one's hair down is means they are free, whereas buns and confined hair wan they are hiding or confined. I guess I prefer Violet's transformation, in The Incredibles. She pulls her hair back in a much more practice fashion when she grows more comfortable. I guess what I'm saying is that you rarely see one one putting their hair up as a sign of empowerment. For me, that's what it was. So, when I see people acting like buns mean a person is not pretty or free or confident, it's mildly irritating. In today's culture, we're often told to throw away any rule or confinements in order to be free; I disagree with that argument. I value someone stepping up to responsibility as more valuable than flouting it in an age where rebellion is almost commonplace; similarly, I don't think letting one's hair down is all that impactful now, and putting it up rather than cutting/wearing it long and loose can be more freeing. For me, seeing someone put their hair up is just as freeing as the classic wiping off the make up. Choosing to wear a hairstyle that makes your life easier and makes you feel more attractive, or efficient, or comfortable, despite what others think is more freeing to me that taking it down and losing the 'fear of disapproval' or acceptance of societal standards. Hair should not be the defining characteristic of a person's worth.
So, yes, in a roundabout way, I have encountered this attitude. Wearingy hair up is empowering, and I don't want to take it down to appease others, who see it as sign of confinement, letting myself go, laziness, or lack of confidence to wear my hair down. There's nothing wrong with wearing it up or down, but I feel that we should be free to wear it how we wish, not because of how we feel others want it, but how it best fits our needs and circumstances.

DreamSheep
December 13th, 2014, 09:36 PM
Good point, LHL. In your original post, you did ask about the attitude displayed in the show, and asked for opinions. As for me, I'm young enough to not have encountered the "owning" aspect, though I do think that frumpy old lady comments aren't justified. I do think that both 'sides' of the argument here went a little overboard: some focused on their dislike for the show and its attitude, and in doing so insulted the character of those who watch it. On the other side, people insulted those posting their thoughts as overreacting, belittling them by implying that they were uptight and small minded. Such comments close discussions and open arguments. You asked for a discussion with that clip as a way to get people thinking, but I think some instead focused on the clip as the topic, rather than the evidence of the discussion.

As for me, I'm always a little bit amused and occasionally irritated when letting one's hair down is means they are free, whereas buns and confined hair wan they are hiding or confined. I guess I prefer Violet's transformation, in The Incredibles. She pulls her hair back in a much more practice fashion when she grows more comfortable. I guess what I'm saying is that you rarely see one one putting their hair up as a sign of empowerment. For me, that's what it was. So, when I see people acting like buns mean a person is not pretty or free or confident, it's mildly irritating. In today's culture, we're often told to throw away any rule or confinements in order to be free; I disagree with that argument. I value someone stepping up to responsibility as more valuable than flouting it in an age where rebellion is almost commonplace; similarly, I don't think letting one's hair down is all that impactful now, and putting it up rather than cutting/wearing it long and loose can be more freeing. For me, seeing someone put their hair up is just as freeing as the classic wiping off the make up. Choosing to wear a hairstyle that makes your life easier and makes you feel more attractive, or efficient, or comfortable, despite what others think is more freeing to me that taking it down and losing the 'fear of disapproval' or acceptance of societal standards. Hair should not be the defining characteristic of a person's worth.
So, yes, in a roundabout way, I have encountered this attitude. Wearingy hair up is empowering, and I don't want to take it down to appease others, who see it as sign of confinement, letting myself go, laziness, or lack of confidence to wear my hair down. There's nothing wrong with wearing it up or down, but I feel that we should be free to wear it how we wish, not because of how we feel others want it, but how it best fits our needs and circumstances.

I completely agree with you :)
I also like how you've phrased the putting one's hair back as feeling empowered - as this is how it feels like to me I guess (also the lady's bun is beautiful).
Two years ago I began to grow out my fringe/bangs, which I had had virtually all of my life because I was too shy to show my eyebrows and forehead (I now have officially diagnosed Tourette's, but before I didn't know why I was frowning all the time, and it was a way of hiding it).
Likewise, in a way I sometimes feel less attractive with no hair framing my face as I put it up, but when I do so it means I am comfortable with myself and don't mind the appearance of my face and its twitching. :)

sarahthegemini
December 14th, 2014, 12:55 PM
:rolleyes: It won't hurt you to be a little kinder, you know? I'm at least twice, if not three times your age! Miss.

And it wouldn't hurt you to stop being patronising. With all due respect, you need to stop thinking you know better purely because of your age.

sarahthegemini
December 14th, 2014, 12:57 PM
Sorry, but I'm not being patronizing. :)

Yes, Lapushka you are. Do me a favour? Stop responding to my posts on here, it's obvious that you like to argue with me and attempt to belittle me, which quite frankly I find tiresome.

Kina
December 14th, 2014, 01:16 PM
I completely agree with you :)
I also like how you've phrased the putting one's hair back as feeling empowered - as this is how it feels like to me I guess (also the lady's bun is beautiful).
Two years ago I began to grow out my fringe/bangs, which I had had virtually all of my life because I was too shy to show my eyebrows and forehead (I now have officially diagnosed Tourette's, but before I didn't know why I was frowning all the time, and it was a way of hiding it).
Likewise, in a way I sometimes feel less attractive with no hair framing my face as I put it up, but when I do so it means I am comfortable with myself and don't mind the appearance of my face and its twitching. :)

I agree as well. If you think about it, wearing your hair up is needed whenever you are doing something practical. Cooking, using power tools, being serious.

I think it's viewed as "serious business" when a woman puts her hair up, which to some people is threatening.

CousinItt
December 14th, 2014, 06:43 PM
I agree as well. If you think about it, wearing your hair up is needed whenever you are doing something practical. Cooking, using power tools, being serious.

I think it's viewed as "serious business" when a woman puts her hair up, which to some people is threatening.
I hadn't even thought of it like that. I like buns (and updos in general) even more now.

Islandgrrl
December 14th, 2014, 06:55 PM
I agree as well. If you think about it, wearing your hair up is needed whenever you are doing something practical. Cooking, using power tools, being serious.

I think it's viewed as "serious business" when a woman puts her hair up, which to some people is threatening.

I like that. Me woman. Serious woman! :silly:

Of course I wear my hair in a bun about 100% of the time. People think I'm fierce. If they only knew the truth!

chen bao jun
December 14th, 2014, 10:48 PM
I agree as well. If you think about it, wearing your hair up is needed whenever you are doing something practical. Cooking, using power tools, being serious.

I think it's viewed as "serious business" when a woman puts her hair up, which to some people is threatening.

I like this thought. Although I would doubt that anybody ever sees me as threatening (5 ft 3 and apparently I give off a cuddly vibe. At least I still get little old ladies pinching my cheeks and telling me I'm cute --at age 57.)

Undomiel
December 14th, 2014, 11:03 PM
What a garbage TV show. It was always the "last option" show I'd watch when nothing else was on and I had only a couple channels LOL (this is before I got rid of cable). I always thought it was annoying how Doug is an idiotic fool, basically broke and a slob yet he's married to this gorgeous woman and making more demands on her about her appearance. He should be thankful any woman gave him the time of day LOL!

Jennah
December 15th, 2014, 07:05 AM
I already don't like King of Queens, but this episode really annoyed me.

Ok, I watched the clip.

Boy, that show is so stupid! Ahhhhhh.....

Anyway, about the bun. I had the opposite reaction. I hated the woman´s standofish attitude: The bun is here to stay, like it or not! :luke:

It was obvious the husband was super turned off by it, hated it, and she wouldn´t even take it off to make love.

I mean, if the husband hates it, save it to go to work or something and please your husband and look the way he likes. :shrug:

Kina
December 15th, 2014, 07:11 AM
I like this thought. Although I would doubt that anybody ever sees me as threatening (5 ft 3 and apparently I give off a cuddly vibe. At least I still get little old ladies pinching my cheeks and telling me I'm cute --at age 57.)

I have the opposite experience, I'm 5.4and 3/4 on a good day, slender, but suffer from resting b*+ch face, people are afraid to approach me with my hair down. With my hair up, I might get arrested on general principles.

I've literally had people tell me that when I am angry, I appear to grow, lol, much like the hulk :D

chen bao jun
December 15th, 2014, 08:07 AM
I have the opposite experience, I'm 5.4and 3/4 on a good day, slender, but suffer from resting b*+ch face, people are afraid to approach me with my hair down. With my hair up, I might get arrested on general principles.

I've literally had people tell me that when I am angry, I appear to grow, lol, much like the hulk :D

This is funny. You are so sweet and good. Well, it must not just be height that makes people stereotype people. Seriously, I can't get people to take me seriously without a lot of trouble. Even with my hair peeled back and dressed very severely, when I threaten my students, they don't believe I will really fail them for not doing the work. And people s reaction to me when I get angry is usually something like, you're such a cute little munchkin, it's so cute when you get mad. I thought age would fix this but it hasn't. I remember my grandmother when she was in her 80 s everone wanted to pet her and stroke her hair and said she was so pretty and sweet, probably I'm doomed...
I don't even have dimples or anything. And you have curls too so it can't be that.

Kina
December 15th, 2014, 08:11 AM
awwww, thanks chen!

chen bao jun
December 15th, 2014, 08:31 AM
Ok, I watched the clip.

Boy, that show is so stupid! Ahhhhhh.....

Anyway, about the bun. I had the opposite reaction. I hated the woman´s standofish attitude: The bun is here to stay, like it or not! :luke:

It was obvious the husband was super turned off by it, hated it, and she wouldn´t even take it off to make love.

I mean, if the husband hates it, save it to go to work or something and please your husband and look the way he likes. :shrug:

I agree with this in general but when he said I can't lose weight so let me show you off at the reunion, I was annoyed. Wore my hair down this weekend and hubby was happy so he s fine with it being back up now. Marriage is compromise. He does keep the beard I love though he says it itches sometimes and he thinks it makes him look older, so I owe him.

Peggy E.
December 15th, 2014, 01:31 PM
remember, it is only a t.v. series and, though having never seen the show, there's a formula this type of show follows, in which characters such as this man, are meant to be on the ignorant, loud and outrageous side. it's the play off the savyer wife which is supposed to make it funny.

so, actually, by his saying the bun his wife is wearing is not appealing, attractive or does anything for her is actually an endorsement for the style. looks nice on her and that's what really matters - the audience has eyes, after all!

meteor
December 15th, 2014, 02:09 PM
remember, it is only a t.v. series and, though having never seen the show, there's a formula this type of show follows, in which characters such as this man, are meant to be on the ignorant, loud and outrageous side. it's the play off the savyer wife which is supposed to make it funny.

so, actually, by his saying the bun his wife is wearing is not appealing, attractive or does anything for her is actually an endorsement for the style. looks nice on her and that's what really matters - the audience has eyes, after all!

That's exactly how I read it too! :D
The husband was supposed to be foolish in his absurd bun hate. She look lovely, and she's funny too! :)

Freija
December 15th, 2014, 02:39 PM
Honestly, I had more of a problem with the whole, 'You remember how I was gonna lose 20lb for my reunion?'

'Yeah...?'

'Well that's not gonna happen, so I'm gonna need you to get your body just that much tighter, to make up for me.'

[with mild amusement, but no sarcasm] 'I will do my best.' [kiss]

I know she comes across as stronger/savvier later on in the episode, but in this scene - following the 'women can't drive' scene that sets up the whole episode (in which her husband is quite clearly and indisputably put in the right) - there isn't a second level to it; she isn't undermining him, just agreeing with him. The joke hasn't yet developed into 'wow, that man is an idiot, we're all actually siding with the wife and he just can't see it'. It's more along the lines of a masculine in-joke ('ha, yeah, we men are such lazy slobs - lucky we have cute women to make up for it').

Not Lynn Merely
December 17th, 2014, 10:11 PM
Honestly, I had more of a problem with the whole, 'You remember how I was gonna lose 20lb for my reunion?'

'Yeah...?'

'Well that's not gonna happen, so I'm gonna need you to get your body just that much tighter, to make up for me.'

[with mild amusement, but no sarcasm] 'I will do my best.' [kiss]

I know she comes across as stronger/savvier later on in the episode, but in this scene - following the 'women can't drive' scene that sets up the whole episode (in which her husband is quite clearly and indisputably put in the right) - there isn't a second level to it; she isn't undermining him, just agreeing with him. The joke hasn't yet developed into 'wow, that man is an idiot, we're all actually siding with the wife and he just can't see it'. It's more along the lines of a masculine in-joke ('ha, yeah, we men are such lazy slobs - lucky we have cute women to make up for it').

[Emphasis added]

That is because she doesn't take him seriously. I have seen a dozen episodes over the years, and he is consistently portrayed as the buffoon, and so she treats him like a child. If a child tells you "When I grow up, I'm gonna be a dinosaur!" you reply "of course you are, dear" with no sarcasm. *shrugs*

I will say that, as much as I like big buns (and there that song goes in my head again!), I do not like buns that are just connected at a small point to the head, the bee-butt bun (http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/d5/a7/9b/d5a79b95fbc44209ea5ae1a59cd1f332.jpg) (except, in the last pic where she wears it low, I find that pretty cute). I prefer that, for any bun, the point it joins to the head should be at close to or meeting the maximum width of the bun. So, a bun that looks like a little sphere just tangentially connected to the scalp (usually via hair tie) is a no-go, but one that is either flat against the scalp or mounded off of it (usually via pins or hairstick) is good. This is just my opinion and personal preference. I'm not sure if I prefer the non-bee-butt buns for appearance's sake or for perceived stability. I bring this up because the wife's buns (unless put up in a hurry) were the more non-bee-butt style (there has to be a better name for this!), while that of the "librarian" did appear to be a bee-butt style. Does anyone else share this preference or make this distinction?

Entangled
December 18th, 2014, 08:51 AM
I share the preference, though I don't distinguish between bee butt and flat for "librarian buns".

meteor
December 18th, 2014, 12:48 PM
It's funny: I've seen many, many librarians in my life, and many hairstyles: mostly ponytails, pixies and bobs, but sometimes something a bit more unusual, like rainbow hair and big, long dreads but I don't remember any buns! :hmm:
I've only seen librarians with buns on TV. :shrug:

GreenFairy
December 18th, 2014, 01:13 PM
i think buns can be pretty.. the intricate designs are lovely. However, I prefer hair long and not tied up in any form or fashion.

my boyfriend hates it when i wear a bun. He says "what's the point in having long hair if you just keep it up?". I keep my hair down most days and he agrees not to shave his beard.

Sunshineliz
December 18th, 2014, 03:07 PM
I had to get over this attitude even a bit from myself. Before I discovered here and hairsticks, I put my hair up in a bun with an elastic and bobbypins once(I was desperately trying to find different ways to put it up and out of the way). I looked in the mirror and freaked out a bit--"I'm an old lady!" Of course, in my case the gray hair didn't help. :p

But my hair is nearly constantly in a bun nowadays. First, I think a hairstick makes all the difference. Second, more younger people are wearing their hair up in buns. Third, an internal change of perspective made me decide I look nice regardless. And it irks me too much to get any work done with my hair down.

Halliday
December 18th, 2014, 03:15 PM
Have people ever considered that librarians actually tend to have the coolest personalities - there is nothing dowdy or boring about them :applause: