At a loss with water in my hair

[Kivamaki]

I've been NW/SO for sometime now, which is fine, but I've recently had to start washing my hair about once every two weeks with Tgel due to psoriasis. But god damn my hair hates water no matter how I prepare it before and after. In the shower, I can barely run my hands through my hair because it's so...stuck together/matted/dry (even under water).

Just now I rinsed my hair, did an ACV rinse and towel dried my hair and wow, so much frizz and I can't even run my fingers through my hair without my breaking it all and it's insanely dry. And that's after I put coconut oil in while it was mildly damp. I've also tried waiting till it's dry, then coconut oil, but I can barely manage that. It's as if my hair retains the water but is still so dry and fragile.

This has gone on way before I started NW/SO, it's partially the reason I started it because I just couldn't handle the way water touched my hair. Does my hair need protein shampoo? Something with the porisity? I also have a shower head filter.


EDIT: Because I'm impatient I decided to try and clarify after reading a bunch of threads on it. I wet my hair, used 2 tsp of baking soda dissolved in 20oz of filtered water, dumped that over my hair, rinsed, used 2tsp of ACV in 20oz of filtered water over my hair. I get the same results. Extremely dry, can't run my fingers through my hair it's so...gummed with water. I can barely get my comb through without it getting stopped up, and ripping a bunch of hairs.

I got my hair damp, put a little coconut oil in it. Here's what I got: so damn gummed.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0veofkROHrXVXREUnVVNXlMTzlUSmZHS21YSTRKd29qc3ZZ/view?usp=sharing

[Aurum]

That would be very aggravating. What hair texture do you have? If you're naturally a curly, your hair just might be genetically predisposed to stickiness. Perhaps static is causing it to cling together, as you said you get bad frizziness. I'm not much of an expert on oils and products, sorry! Hopefully someone will come forward with a more definite answer. :)

[Kivamaki]

That would be very aggravating. What hair texture do you have? If you're naturally a curly, your hair just might be genetically predisposed to stickiness. I'm not much of an expert on oils and products, sorry! Hopefully someone will come forward with a more definite answer. :)

I have pretty fine and mostly straight hair. It does sort of wave/curl up but only at the ends. The rest is pure straight.

[Nadine <3]

If your ends are curling you're probably more curly than you think. The hair sticking to itself and then frizzing up when it's detangled sounds like curls to me. How are you washing right now? Maybe try out the curly girl method?

EDIT: When was the last time you clarified as well?

[Kivamaki]

If your ends are curling you're probably more curly than you think. The hair sticking to itself and then frizzing up when it's detangled sounds like curls to me. How are you washing right now? Maybe try out the curly girl method?

EDIT: When was the last time you clarified as well?

It's only maybe about half and inch that flips up. The rest is dead straight. Washing, I wet the hair, lather the Tgel, let it set, rinse it out, ACV rinse (leave in..5 minutes to 10), rinse out.

I don't know anything about clarifying.

[Nadine <3]

Hm, well generally flippy ends and frizz is sign that you have curly hair. I always thought I had straight, poofy, damaged stupid hair with flippy ends. It turned out that I actually have waves, but if I brush or comb it while it's wet, I get straight hair with frizz and poof. If I where you, I would try completely starting over and clarifying with a clarifying shampoo. I like vo5's, it's cheep and effective. Then since you need the tgel to treat you psoriasis, I would continue using it, but coat your length with conditioner before shampooing and using the tgel so it's protected. Then rince everything and condition again.

Just my two cents worth, I hope you find something that works for you.

[Kivamaki]

I suppose it is possible. Even as a child though my hair was straight as a nail. But things change I suppose?

I've tried to stay away from chemical shampoos for years, they don't like my hair too much (except this damn Tgel), so I researched Clarifying up on LHC and I may give that a whirl. Because I have used TONS of oils in my hair trying to remedy dryness, fly aways, etc. From Castor, Hemp Seed, Coconut, Jojoba, etc etc. So maybe I need to clarify. I was reading up on disolving baking soda to clarify, followed by a ACV rinse.

Should I just hop back in the shower to try and clarify, or wait a day/two?


EDIT: Because I'm impatient I decided to try and clarify after reading a bunch of threads on it. I wet my hair, used 2 tsp of baking soda dissolved in 20oz of filtered water, dumped that over my hair, rinsed, used 2tsp of ACV in 20oz of filtered water over my hair. I get the same results. Extremely dry, can't run my fingers through my hair it's so...gummed with water. I can barely get my comb through without it getting stopped up, and ripping a bunch of hairs.

I got my hair damp, put a little coconut oil in it. Here's what I got: so damn gummed.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0veofkROHrXVXREUnVVNXlMTzlUSmZHS21YSTRKd29qc3ZZ/view?usp=sharing

[Lyzelle]

I always thought I had extremely fine, dry, straight hair. I went to CO/No stripping chemicals and surprise, surprise...my hair is closer to medium thickness(although still fine enough to be weighed down easily) and actually has a good curl and whirl to it. Although I remember the same issues. Frizziness, dryness, squeaky clean hair that went flat, limp and greasy within an hour of washing. Never had bounce, always tangled fiercely, trying to rip a brush through my hair and ending up with more broken ends and frizziness. Ugh, it was terrible. I ended up not washing my hair for weeks as a teenager. I just kept it in a pony.

These days, I CO wash and only shampoo my hair maybe once every 2 weeks. Even then I use coconut oil before hand. 'Cones are my friend. And apparently bleach, because my ends are no where near as hard to deal with as my new virgin growth.

Even though I have mostly fine flippy wurly hair, I imagine if I didn't do anything with it I would end up with dreads.

[Kivamaki]

I can't say mine goes flat, or limp, and definitely not greasy within an hour, or near it. But I haven't used conditioner in years.

[Madora]

It sounds to me that your hair has a severe buildup problem. As you know, everything that gets on your strands, leaves a tiny trace behind. Over time, the traces multiply and you end up with cranky hair that is hard to get a comb through.

For buildup problems, the usual solution is to clarify, with a specially made clarifying shampoo. Neutrogena Anti-Residue Clarifying shampoo has received good reviews here from other LHCers.

You apply the Neutrogena straight out of the bottle and massage it all through your hair and scalp. I usually wait 5 minutes before I rinse it out. Please note: the Neutrogena is very strong and will strip everything off your strands, leaving your hair looking and feeling like hay..but that is what it is supposed to do. Once you have rinsed well (if you can stand itm, try finishing off with a rinse as cool as you can stand it. A cold rinse helps squeeze the last bit of shampoo from your hair and also helps close the cuticles which were opened by the warm water you used while shampooing. The next thing you need (right away) is a deep conditioning treatment to restore your hair to its original condition. Some people use a regular conditioning treatment, others use mineral oil (that's what I use). Rinse well after using.

It well may be that after this clarifying business your hair will be a bit frisky, but that is to be expected. To help tame the friskiness, try 2 drops of Mineral Oil (applied to your palms, not directly on your hair). Swish your palms through your hair several times until the oil sheen has about disappeared.

Hair, in time, will become cranky and limp/dank, unpleasant if it is not washed with shampoo. Shampoo cleanses. After shampooing, a little dab of conditioner helps to coat the strands and protect them.

To limit having to go thru all this often, limit what you put on your hair. Less is more works for your hair too.

Lastly, if you have trouble with flyaway and frizzies, then a drop or two of mineral oil helps to tame those. It is also a great moisturizer and detangler. It washes out easily in your next shampoo and leaves no after scent. It is also dead cheap and a bottle will last for years. If you do want to look into mineral oil, be sure to purchase a MO that contains ONLY the MO and a fragrance. Additives in MO make it less effective. Good luck. PS You may find this article on Understanding the Drying Capacities of Oil by former LHC member Ktani very helpful: http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2011/12/understanding-drying-capacity-of-oils.html Here is video tutorial by LHC member Heidi W, on how to oil your hair: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjVwPKMQDYk Good luck!

[Kivamaki]

It sounds to me that your hair has a severe buildup problem. As you know, everything that gets on your strands, leaves a tiny trace behind. Over time, the traces multiply and you end up with cranky hair that is hard to get a comb through.

For buildup problems, the usual solution is to clarify, with a specially made clarifying shampoo. Neutrogena Anti-Residue Clarifying shampoo has received good reviews here from other LHCers.

You apply the Neutrogena straight out of the bottle and massage it all through your hair and scalp. I usually wait 5 minutes before I rinse it out. Please note: the Neutrogena is very strong and will strip everything off your strands, leaving your hair looking and feeling like hay..but that is what it is supposed to do. Once you have rinsed well (if you can stand itm, try finishing off with a rinse as cool as you can stand it. A cold rinse helps squeeze the last bit of shampoo from your hair and also helps close the cuticles which were opened by the warm water you used while shampooing. The next thing you need (right away) is a deep conditioning treatment to restore your hair to its original condition. Some people use a regular conditioning treatment, others use mineral oil (that's what I use). Rinse well after using.

It well may be that after this clarifying business your hair will be a bit frisky, but that is to be expected. To help tame the friskiness, try 2 drops of Mineral Oil (applied to your palms, not directly on your hair). Swish your palms through your hair several times until the oil sheen has about disappeared.

Hair, in time, will become cranky and limp/dank, unpleasant if it is not washed with shampoo. Shampoo cleanses. After shampooing, a little dab of conditioner helps to coat the strands and protect them.

To limit having to go thru all this often, limit what you put on your hair. Less is more works for your hair too.

Lastly, if you have trouble with flyaway and frizzies, then a drop or two of mineral oil helps to tame those. It is also a great moisturizer and detangler. It washes out easily in your next shampoo and leaves no after scent. It is also dead cheap and a bottle will last for years. If you do want to look into mineral oil, be sure to purchase a MO that contains ONLY the MO and a fragrance. Additives in MO make it less effective. Good luck. PS You may find this article on Understanding the Drying Capacities of Oil by former LHC member Ktani very helpful: http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2011/12/understanding-drying-capacity-of-oils.html Here is video tutorial by LHC member Heidi W, on how to oil your hair: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjVwPKMQDYk Good luck!

Thanks for all the info.

Would I be able to replace the clarifying shampoo with another baking soda rinse if just one wasn't enough?

And for mineral oil as a deep conditioner after I use the shampoo (or bs), how do you deep condition, just spread through hair in shower and rinse off?

I was also under the impression mineral oil just coats your hair, and is relatively toxic and bad.

Thanks again. Great info.

[winship2]

Kivamaki, I'm sorry you're having to go through this. It must be INCREDIBLY frustrating. I have psoriasis also, though fortunately not on my scalp. Bad enough elsewhere on one's body :(

I would NOT use BS/ACV on temperamental, dry, breaking hair. I know some people are OK with it, but really, it's pretty harsh and I think that the Neutrogena Clarifying shampoo Madora recommended is a wiser choice. Many people here use mineral oil-- you need a tiny tiny tiny amount. It's known to protect moisture and help with slip and it won't build up. I love coconut oil and use it on my face and body but not on my hair. On my hair it builds up and makes it dry and tangly. I'm really picky about what I eat and drink, but the amount of mineral oil we're talking about here will be so much less exposure to anything that you get walking a block down a city street. Give the Neutrogena and mineral oil a try and see how they work. Be gentle, go slow, rinse thoroughly thoroughly thoroughly, then wrap in a soft towel to blot, stroke a little mineral oil over your ends, and let air dry.

I can't say strongly enough to not use BS/ACV if your hair is in bad shape! It may be "natural", but that doesn't mean it's a gentle choice for your injured hair and scalp.

[Madora]

Thanks for all the info.

Would I be able to replace the clarifying shampoo with another baking soda rinse if just one wasn't enough?

And for mineral oil as a deep conditioner after I use the shampoo (or bs), how do you deep condition, just spread through hair in shower and rinse off?

I was also under the impression mineral oil just coats your hair, and is relatively toxic and bad.

Thanks again. Great info.

You're welcome, Kivamaki.

For the sake of your hair, try and keep away from using baking soda because it is very harsh and getting the exact proportions of baking soda to water correct is kinda sketchy. And definitely you don't want to do a second baking soda attempt. The clarifying shampoos are formulated to deal with buildup exclusively...and yes, they are harsh too. Ideally, you should try to not use a lot of stuff on your hair, so that buildup doesn't occur as much. Be that as it may, clarify with Neutrogena Anti-Residue Clarifying shampoo once a month. Not more, because if you use NARCS a lot, you'll murder your hair.

Using mineral oil as a conditioner (instead of using a deep conditioning treatment) is easy peasy. You apply it to hair that is damp (not wet). BUT, you apply the MO from the bottle on to your hands, NOT directly from bottle to your hair. Depending on your hair's thickness and length, usually 2 drops of MO is enough for the conditioning treatment. How to do it: place 2 drops of mineral oil into a small receptacle (I use an old pill bottle cap). Take a q-tip (cotton baby swab), dip it in the MO and swish it around so that the swab is fully coated. Take the oily swab and dab it all over your hands--front/back/fingers/palms. Now, take both hands and pull them through all your hair. Do this 5 or 6 times until the oil sheen on your palms has disappeared.

Mineral oil is very lightweight, leaves no after scent, helps tame flyaways and frizzies, is a great detangler and moisturizer as well. For best results...hair should be clarified before using the MO...but it can be used on unclarified hair too. The reason I mention the need for clarifying first is that the clarifying process strips the hair of all junk on it, leaving it as natural as the day you were born. It is at its most optimum point for receiving the mineral oil that you put on it with your hands.

Your mineral oil should contain only MO and a fragrance because additives make MO less effective. Johnson and Johnson make a great baby oil...dead cheap (a bottle will last for years). Just be sure your J and J has only the MO and a fragrance (J and J makes 2 kinds of baby oil).

Mineral oil spreads like wildfire and leaves your hair soft, shiny and feeling wonderful. Be sure to use only 2 or 3 drops! Less is more when it comes to MO!

The following are interesting threads containing info on mineral oil, written by former LHC member KTANI. She worked in the hair industry and researched all facts.

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2010/01/setting-record-straight-about-safety-of.html

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2011/12/when-to-clarify-hair-and-with-what.html (deals with clarifying how tos)

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2011/12/mineral-oil-and-hair-care-and-skin.html (mo as moisturizer)

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2011/12/understanding-drying-capacity-of-oils.html (Understanding drying capacities of oil)

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/06/current-mineral-oil-safety-links-2012.html (Mineral oil safety 2012)

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/10/mineral-oil-and-dandruff-update-2012.html (mineral and dandruff 2012)

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/10/hair-and-build-up-and-moisture.html (regarding buildup and using mo to combat it)
http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/10/some-types-of-hair-damage-are.html
http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-skinny-details-on-mineral-oil-baby.html (all about MO aka baby oil)

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/11/uspbp-mineral-oil-and-uv-hair-damage.html

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/11/oil-and-hair-dye-colour-fade.html

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/11/using-oil-or-conditioner-as-pre-wash.html
http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/12/frequent-mineral-oil-email-topics.html

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2013/08/advantages-cosmetic-mineral-oil-has.html
http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2013/11/curly-hair-and-mineral-oil.html
http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2014/03/how-moisturizers-are-supposed-to-work.html

[Hootenanny]

Kivamaki, do you use conditioner when you shampoo? The reason I ask is that you don't mention it in your post. If you are not using it, I would suggest that you start. If I didn't use (a lot of) conditioner on the lengths of my hair, both before and after shampooing, I wouldn't be able to run my fingers through my hair either.

I also agree with everyone who says that you should try clarifying and chelating with a shampoo suited for this, and stop using the baking soda. Good luck! I really hope something works for you! :)

[lapushka]

I got my hair damp, put a little coconut oil in it. Here's what I got: so damn gummed.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0veofkROHrXVXREUnVVNXlMTzlUSmZHS21YSTRKd29qc3ZZ/view?usp=sharing

No that looks like pretty straight hair to me. Like 1a/b or so.
I hate to say it, but to me that looks good.

[Kivamaki]

You're welcome, Kivamaki.

For the sake of your hair, try and keep away from using baking soda because it is very harsh and getting the exact proportions of baking soda to water correct is kinda sketchy. And definitely you don't want to do a second baking soda attempt. The clarifying shampoos are formulated to deal with buildup exclusively...and yes, they are harsh too. Ideally, you should try to not use a lot of stuff on your hair, so that buildup doesn't occur as much. Be that as it may, clarify with Neutrogena Anti-Residue Clarifying shampoo once a month. Not more, because if you use NARCS a lot, you'll murder your hair.

Using mineral oil as a conditioner (instead of using a deep conditioning treatment) is easy peasy. You apply it to hair that is damp (not wet). BUT, you apply the MO from the bottle on to your hands, NOT directly from bottle to your hair. Depending on your hair's thickness and length, usually 2 drops of MO is enough for the conditioning treatment. How to do it: place 2 drops of mineral oil into a small receptacle (I use an old pill bottle cap). Take a q-tip (cotton baby swab), dip it in the MO and swish it around so that the swab is fully coated. Take the oily swab and dab it all over your hands--front/back/fingers/palms. Now, take both hands and pull them through all your hair. Do this 5 or 6 times until the oil sheen on your palms has disappeared.

Mineral oil is very lightweight, leaves no after scent, helps tame flyaways and frizzies, is a great detangler and moisturizer as well. For best results...hair should be clarified before using the MO...but it can be used on unclarified hair too. The reason I mention the need for clarifying first is that the clarifying process strips the hair of all junk on it, leaving it as natural as the day you were born. It is at its most optimum point for receiving the mineral oil that you put on it with your hands.

Your mineral oil should contain only MO and a fragrance because additives make MO less effective. Johnson and Johnson make a great baby oil...dead cheap (a bottle will last for years). Just be sure your J and J has only the MO and a fragrance (J and J makes 2 kinds of baby oil).

Mineral oil spreads like wildfire and leaves your hair soft, shiny and feeling wonderful. Be sure to use only 2 or 3 drops! Less is more when it comes to MO!

The following are interesting threads containing info on mineral oil, written by former LHC member KTANI. She worked in the hair industry and researched all facts.

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2010/01/setting-record-straight-about-safety-of.html

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2011/12/when-to-clarify-hair-and-with-what.html (deals with clarifying how tos)

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2011/12/mineral-oil-and-hair-care-and-skin.html (mo as moisturizer)

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2011/12/understanding-drying-capacity-of-oils.html (Understanding drying capacities of oil)

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/06/current-mineral-oil-safety-links-2012.html (Mineral oil safety 2012)

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/10/mineral-oil-and-dandruff-update-2012.html (mineral and dandruff 2012)

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/10/hair-and-build-up-and-moisture.html (regarding buildup and using mo to combat it)
http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/10/some-types-of-hair-damage-are.html
http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-skinny-details-on-mineral-oil-baby.html (all about MO aka baby oil)

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/11/uspbp-mineral-oil-and-uv-hair-damage.html

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/11/oil-and-hair-dye-colour-fade.html

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/11/using-oil-or-conditioner-as-pre-wash.html
http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2012/12/frequent-mineral-oil-email-topics.html

http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2013/08/advantages-cosmetic-mineral-oil-has.html
http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2013/11/curly-hair-and-mineral-oil.html
http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2014/03/how-moisturizers-are-supposed-to-work.html

I'll head to the store and pick up some of that clarifying shampoo and MO. Two questions though.

In your first post you said I need to immediately put the MO in after the shampoo and rinse well. So am I using the clarifying shampoo, rinse, 2 drops of MO, rinse, then dry with 2 more drops of MO?

Or is it shampoo, rinse, dry, 2 drops?

And for MO can I possibly get just straight Mineral oil instead of one with fragerance?

Such as
http://m.cvs.com/mt/www.cvs.com/shop/health-medicine/digestive-health/fiber-laxatives/cvs-mineral-oil-usp-skuid-152355?un_jtt_v_tabs=2

[lapushka]

I'll head to the store and pick up some of that clarifying shampoo and MO. Two questions though.

In your first post you said I need to immediately put the MO in after the shampoo and rinse well. So am I using the clarifying shampoo, rinse, 2 drops of MO, rinse, then dry with 2 more drops of MO?

Or is it shampoo, rinse, dry, 2 drops?

And for MO can I possibly get just straight Mineral oil instead of one with fragerance?

Such as
http://m.cvs.com/mt/www.cvs.com/shop/health-medicine/digestive-health/fiber-laxatives/cvs-mineral-oil-usp-skuid-152355?un_jtt_v_tabs=2

I think it's substituting your conditioner for MO. I personally don't do that. Still use my conditioners as normal, then apply the MO as a last step, as a leave-in if you will. Just 2 drops on damp hair, then let it dry. And don't do more to it.

[Nadine <3]

I definitely agree with those who said stay away from baking soda. Some people have good luck with that, but for me it was a disaster. I would get a good clarifying shampoo and use that. I also have to disagree with the mineral oil suggestion. Mineral oil can work great for a lot of people, but if you do have build up I think it would be smart to just wash it and condition before you start adding different leave ins you've never used before. Once you get the build up problem sorted out, then you can slowly try out new things, one at a time. That way you'll know exactly what's working for you, and whats not so great.

[Anje]

Fragrance free mineral oil should be done, if it works for you. (It doesn't do squat for me - my hair does better with oils of plant origin.)

Are you using a conditioner, though? Something beyond just ACV and oils? Not everyone can get by on only those. My hair certainly could not when it was more damaged and I tried various methods including WO. (It might be better able to these days, when even my ends have had gentle treatment since they sprouted, but I don't want to repeat some of those earlier "but it worked for all these people" disasters.) It might be worth trying on your length and ends, even if your scalp doesn't love it.

[Kivamaki]

Just bought the shampoo, johnsons baby oil and distilled water so ill give it a whirl.

[tigereye]

Baking soda :shudder: My hair sounds fairly similar to you in that I had pin-straight hair as a child, and if I went NW, I have no doubt my hair would look exactly like yours does in the picture. As it is, it turns that straight-with-flick-at-the-ends-way about a week after washing, despite starting wavy after air-drying post wash (it swings from about 2a straight after washing, to 1b a week after). My hair would probably be perfectly happy if I did NW, but allergens getting trapped in my hair make it difficult for my skin since I have some pretty bad allergies. I'd at least need water to wash the allergens out and stop it touching my neck or back if I'm wearing my hair down.
Thing is, baking soda was the single worst thing I ever tried on my hair. It made my hair like straw seemingly without removing any of the build-up at all, and leaving me with exactly what you described - weird, breakable, gummy hair. Shampooing without conditioning gives me similar results. If you're having to use T-gel shampoo, it's difficult to get away without conditioning if your hair is anything like mine.
Seriously, just go out and get a clarifying shampoo and a bottle of cone-free condish (so you don't just put the build-up straight back on in the same wash), use them and see if that can reset your hair.
I find MO is useful post-wash, but does diddly-squat if I don't actually condition after shampooing. Good luck getting fingers through my hair if I miss the conditioner.

[Kivamaki]

Just washed my hair with the clarifying shampoo, and after rinsing that out I had pretty much the same results. Could barely get my fingers through my hair under water (I let the shampoo sit for about 5 minutes). I didn't condition, because honestly I never have and I'm still trying to stay away from products. And If I understand..putting oil on your hair would have the same result? Anyhow, still in the shower I put 2-3 drops of the baby oil in my hair, let it sit for a minute and rinsed it out. Eh..better but not great. My hair is more weightless, but still couldn't get my fingers through my hair till I put about 2-3 more drops in it while it was damp. Even that was a challenge. It's drying right now and...looking pretty frizzy and dry. Will update when completely dry.

Update: Well my hair is dry and it's just one big weightless dry frizzy tangled mess (shoulder length hair), very brittle and dry. I tried a couple more drops of baby oil to no avail, still dry.



Baking soda :shudder: My hair sounds fairly similar to you in that I had pin-straight hair as a child, and if I went NW, I have no doubt my hair would look exactly like yours does in the picture. As it is, it turns that straight-with-flick-at-the-ends-way about a week after washing, despite starting wavy after air-drying post wash (it swings from about 2a straight after washing, to 1b a week after). My hair would probably be perfectly happy if I did NW, but allergens getting trapped in my hair make it difficult for my skin since I have some pretty bad allergies. I'd at least need water to wash the allergens out and stop it touching my neck or back if I'm wearing my hair down.
Thing is, baking soda was the single worst thing I ever tried on my hair. It made my hair like straw seemingly without removing any of the build-up at all, and leaving me with exactly what you described - weird, breakable, gummy hair. Shampooing without conditioning gives me similar results. If you're having to use T-gel shampoo, it's difficult to get away without conditioning if your hair is anything like mine.
Seriously, just go out and get a clarifying shampoo and a bottle of cone-free condish (so you don't just put the build-up straight back on in the same wash), use them and see if that can reset your hair.
I find MO is useful post-wash, but does diddly-squat if I don't actually condition after shampooing. Good luck getting fingers through my hair if I miss the conditioner.

Yeah I think the baking soda was a bad idea, ha! I've just never conditioned before, and I don't want it to be a habit since it's just awful stuff in it.

[tigereye]

Just washed my hair with the clarifying shampoo, and after rinsing that out I had pretty much the same results. Could barely get my fingers through my hair under water (I let the shampoo sit for about 5 minutes). I didn't condition, because honestly I never have and I'm still trying to stay away from products. And If I understand..putting oil on your hair would have the same result? Anyhow, still in the shower I put 2-3 drops of the baby oil in my hair, let it sit for a minute and rinsed it out. Eh..better but not great. My hair is more weightless, but still couldn't get my fingers through my hair till I put about 2-3 more drops in it while it was damp. Even that was a challenge. It's drying right now and...looking pretty frizzy and dry. Will update when completely dry.

Update: Well my hair is dry and it's just one big weightless dry frizzy tangled mess (shoulder length hair), very brittle and dry. I tried a couple more drops of baby oil to no avail, still dry.




Yeah I think the baking soda was a bad idea, ha! I've just never conditioned before, and I don't want it to be a habit since it's just awful stuff in it.

Do you mind if I ask what the "awful" stuff in conditioner is?

Brittle, dry, tangly mess sounds about right if you didn't use conditioner after clarifying. It's what my hair would do and ours seems pretty similar. No amount of oil would fix that if I did that to my hair. Believe me. I tried, and washed my hair with conditioner again pretty much the second it dried because there was no way I'd even manage to bun it in that state.
Even if you don't get into it as a habit, why not just try it once?

I will admit, I'm picky about my conditioner, but that's more out of allergen-avoidance, and interest in what's in stuff.

[veryhairyfairy]

<snip>



Yeah I think the baking soda was a bad idea, ha! I've just never conditioned before, and I don't want it to be a habit since it's just awful stuff in it.

I really didn't like putting parabens and all those other preservatives, dyes, and fragrances in my hair either, so I started making my own conditioner.

I bought some of this (http://www.lotioncrafter.com/lotioncrafter-btms.html) and have been making my own (WAY nicer) conditioner for a good while now. It's super easy and I love it, but just now looking at the ewg/skindeep database I see that cetearyl alcohol is a suspected environmental toxin. :(

I just remembered something that's completely totally natural and easy to make: Catnip tea!
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=476

I use a dilution of 1 teaspoon catnip to 1.25 cups of just boiled water, steeped covered for 5 hours, and it works wonderfully as a spray on leave in conditioner!

[Kivamaki]

I suppose I could could do ingredient list checks on them, but most are chemical based or no? Wouldnt oil be essentially the same? Just questioning because I don't know honestly.

[lapushka]

I suppose I could could do ingredient list checks on them, but most are chemical based or no? Wouldnt oil be essentially the same? Just questioning because I don't know honestly.

Might as well stick to WO or SO if you abhor all products. :)

[Kivamaki]

I probably will once I get my hair set right. With finding a conditioner should I just apply that in the shower, since I haven't added anything but baby oil, or clarify again.

[winship2]

Apply the conditioner and let it soak in for a few minutes.

To be frank, I think the prejudice you have against "products" is working against your stated goal. I personally disagree with you on the idea that products should be avoided if at all possible, but it's your hair and your life so you have to be comfortable. Know that if you clarify, especially with BS/ACV or with a second clarifying treatment after BS/ACV and don't use a conditioner your hair will be super dry and tangly. I think you might have been OK just putting on the mineral oil WHILE IT WAS WET AND NOT WASHING IT OUT, but maybe your hair needed something more intense after two clarifying treatments.

I know you've been on the NW/SO thread, but said that with your psoriasis you felt you had to go the T-Gel route from time to time. Were you able to SMP as much as necessary when you were doing NW/SO? If not, because of time or the flakiness of psoriasis or whatever, you may have to use T-Gel into the future. If you use the T-Gel, the benefits of it will come with a drawback, which is that you have to compensate for the relative harshness of a T-Gel type shampoo with a moisturizing treatment.

I don't envy you, and I don't mean to sounds unsympathetic at all, but I feel I should be direct and say that you may HAVE to use products, and if so they will not kill you or your hair. If you shampoo, with your hair in its current state, you must condition. Then use two drops MO and leave it in, don't wash it out. Try this routine for a month and see where you are at the end of it.

[tigereye]

I suppose I could could do ingredient list checks on them, but most are chemical based or no? Wouldnt oil be essentially the same? Just questioning because I don't know honestly.

Not necessarily. I've found a few that are plant-based through my interrogation of ingredient lists. It helps to know the sciencey names for stuff though. For example, butyrospermum is shea butter, butyris lac is buttermilk. If you really want to go natural, head for either health-food stores (but check ingredients) or etsy (again, ask for a full list - I always do for allergies anyway)

Secondly - please don't refer to them as chemicals - everything is a chemical, we are made up of chemicals. Water is a chemical, sugar (all of them) are chemicals. Plants are bundles of chemicals, and oils and extracts from them are also chemicals. They are natural chemicals. What you probably mean are synthetic chemicals. Even then, a lot of what you probably think are synthetic are actually just purified natural chemicals. One example is linalool - found in a lot of commercial hair products, is produced in about 200 different plant species including mint, catnip, coriander, lavender, sweet basil, cinnamon, rosewood, birch trees, citrus fruit and some fungi. It's one of the things your body can convert to vitamin E. Sodium PCA sounds like someone made it in a lab, but it's actually extracted by fermenting vegetables, coconut oil, algae and seaweed and is one of the best moisturising agents out there. We produce sodium PCA naturally in our own sebum too. Vegetable glycerine is what you get when you pressurise Palm, coconut, or other oils, with warm water. The glycerine moves out of the oil and into the water while the rest don't.
Being honest, though, I only know all this because I'm a pharmacology student with an interest in going on to do natural medicine.

Personally, I'd just hit-up etsy, or learn to make your own.

If you don't use conditioner with T-gel, then I'm afraid you're just going to have to put up with impossible, tangly, probably breaking hair. That, or go NW despite the psoriasis, which more than likely would just worsen the condition.

In the end, most conditioners aimed at the natural market have less synthetic chemicals than the T-gel shampoo itself has. If you're using one, you may as well bite the bullet and use the other. I use Naked Care, which is 97% natural, and good enough for me. It has polyquaternium-22 in it, but then, so does T-gel.

[spidermom]

For me, scalp health has priority over hair health. I have to use a medicated shampoo at least every other wash because of seborrheic dermatitis. Lately I'm using a shampoo with tea tree oil and mint; so far so good, but I'll go back to TGel or the prescription formula if I have to. If I try to go too long without washing, I get angry red and itchy bumps on my scalp. I can recommend using coconut oil to your length (not your scalp) the day or at least 1 hour before washing, diluting the shampoo in some water so that you get really good spread over your scalp with a squirt bottle, rinsing, then using conditioner while bending forward, hair falling toward feet, so that you can get conditioner on your hair but not your scalp. You can buy conditioners with all organic ingredients if you prefer that. There are a few alarmist web sites out there that can scare you out of using pretty much anything, but the reality is that for most of us there will be no problems.

Baking soda was so harsh on my hair that it almost matted together. I couldn't get my fingers or a comb through my hair for about 2 weeks unless I had wet hair full of conditioner. I think I did daily conditioner soaks during that period. It helped. Conditioners are wonderful for restoring manageability to dry hair.

[winship2]

I can recommend using coconut oil to your length (not your scalp) the day or at least 1 hour before washing, diluting the shampoo in some water so that you get really good spread over your scalp with a squirt bottle, rinsing, then using conditioner while bending forward, hair falling toward feet, so that you can get conditioner on your hair but not your scalp.

That's a really good point about using oil to protect the length. I always meant to incorporate that into my routine, but never remembered.

[lapushka]

The BS will be (will have been) far worse than any conditioner you may yet put on your hair. Do you really want to destroy delicate strands over not using products? It's something to consider.

[jeanniet]

I agree with everyone who's said that you're probably making your problem more difficult than it needs to be. Did you ever use the medicated products your dermatologist prescribed to you? Those would likely be more effective than the T-Gel, and possibly less harsh. If you need to continue using some kind of medicated shampoo to combat scalp issues (and those should take priority, because if your scalp goes really bad it could take a very long time to recover), you really aren't going to be able to do WO/SO. It takes longer than a couple of weeks for those to begin working, and every time you wash with medicated shampoo you're going to be setting yourself back to the beginning.

I would look for a conditioner with mostly natural ingredients, and try that. I think for the most part, oil is most effective used in conjunction with a conditioner, rather than as a substitute. Most conditioners are formulated to accomplish more than one thing (slip, detangling, moisture, etc.).

[tigereye]

I agree with everyone who's said that you're probably making your problem more difficult than it needs to be. Did you ever use the medicated products your dermatologist prescribed to you? Those would likely be more effective than the T-Gel, and possibly less harsh. If you need to continue using some kind of medicated shampoo to combat scalp issues (and those should take priority, because if your scalp goes really bad it could take a very long time to recover), you really aren't going to be able to do WO/SO. It takes longer than a couple of weeks for those to begin working, and every time you wash with medicated shampoo you're going to be setting yourself back to the beginning.

I would look for a conditioner with mostly natural ingredients, and try that. I think for the most part, oil is most effective used in conjunction with a conditioner, rather than as a substitute. Most conditioners are formulated to accomplish more than one thing (slip, detangling, moisture, etc.).

Here in the UK, T-gel is considered medicated, and one kind actually prescribed by dermatologists for skin conditions including psoriasis and sebboreic dermatitis.

[Madora]

I'll head to the store and pick up some of that clarifying shampoo and MO. Two questions though.

In your first post you said I need to immediately put the MO in after the shampoo and rinse well. So am I using the clarifying shampoo, rinse, 2 drops of MO, rinse, then dry with 2 more drops of MO?

Or is it shampoo, rinse, dry, 2 drops?

And for MO can I possibly get just straight Mineral oil instead of one with fragerance?

Such as
http://m.cvs.com/mt/www.cvs.com/shop/health-medicine/digestive-health/fiber-laxatives/cvs-mineral-oil-usp-skuid-152355?un_jtt_v_tabs=2

Sorry, I have no knowledge of the MO you linked to. I assume it would be all right, buy cannot vouch for it since I never used it.

The procedure for using mineral oil after clarifying with Neutrogena Anti-Residue Claryifying shampoo:

1) Rinse out all the scalp/hair with cool water.
2) Express as much water as you can from your hair (use your palms to gently push the water out of the strands)
3) Take the mineral oil, put in receptacle, soak the q-tip with the oil, dab the oil soaked swab all over your hands
4) Take both hands and run it through your damp hair several times until the oil sheen disappears from your hands.

Use only 2 to 3 drops of the mineral oil. You do not need to rinse it out. You can if you want to.

I've used MO in place of conditioner with good results...but I always shampoo my hair...at least once a month. I'm not a believer in WO/SO because I want my scalp clean, and I only get that when I use my GM Pink Crème shampoo (diluted with a bit of water).

And for the record, I used T Gel shampoo several times when I was much younger. No problems...but I always used conditioner after the T Gel!

[Catatafish]

tigereye

Secondly - please don't refer to them as chemicals
I dunno, I've heard some pretty bad things about dihydrogen monoxide! :P
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

Kivamaki
I really think your hair needs a good moisturising conditioner. If it is breaking and snapping like you say, you should really just put some conditioner on it.

If you are scared of commercially available products, think of it this way...
Your hair is dead. Once it is damaged it can't repair itself, you can only grow new hair. Any of the 'chemicals' you put on your hair aren't actually entering your body, they are just making the hair more manageable.

[Wildcat Diva]

You could try a fenugreek (methi) pack to try and gain slip. The catnip tea soak is a good idea too.

maybe marshmallow root also?

[ARG]

Conditioning hair is kind of vital to hair health* if you're going to wash it, whether its with T-Gel or something else.

When I want to go with a more natural, gentle cleanser/conditioner, I go to Nature's Gate (http://www.natures-gate.com) products. I would recommend you look into something like their Tea Tree and Blue Cyprus Soothing Conditioner (http://www.natures-gate.com/Shop/item?Product=42200019&category=237&WithLinks=1)(and even the shampoo).



*Disclaimer: YMMV, some people can get away without conditioning their hair in any way.

[lapushka]

[i]*Disclaimer: YMMV, some people can get away without conditioning their hair in any way.

I'd say (unless you oil beforehand), conditioning is pretty vital for very long hair to prevent tangles, especially after *especially* drying shampoos. I've yet to meet someone who can go without either oil or conditioner at very long lengths.

[ARG]

I definitely agree with you, Lapushka. Which is part of the reason I went back to cones; the longer my hair got, the more it needed conditioning and that "slip". OP's hair seems like it needs more moisture than they are willing to supply without the use of a conventional product.

It also seems odd to me that the OP is willing to use MO, which is a by-product of the petroleum industry, but shirks conventional conditioning agents as "chemicals" and bad.

[winship2]

It also seems odd to me that the OP is willing to use MO, which is a by-product of the petroleum industry, but shirks conventional conditioning agents as "chemicals" and bad.

You may have missed the early pages of this thread, where he expressed a lot of concern about MO but agreed to try it after several people encouraged him.

[ARG]

I did miss that, thanks Winship!

I guess in my mind I would have gone for a deep conditioner instead of the MO, but I understand that the OP was told to use that instead of a conventional conditioner.

When I clarify I condition, deep condition, then coconut oil, then usually a conventional serum over it. I probably go overboard, but that's what I find works for me and my hair. Clarifying and then MO I just don't see my hair reacting very well to it.

Good luck to the OP with finding something that works!

[Kivamaki]

Thanks all for the responses, going to head to the store to pick up some conditioner. Can anyone suggest a conditioner to find at the drug store?

Will look for Nature Gate while in there ^

[Nadine <3]

If you really want to go super natural, you could try egg yolks. I had good results with it, and I never needed conditioner. I ended with just a vinegar rinse.

EDITED to add, that I think you should still clarify with a good clarifying shampoo to restart your hair before trying anything new.

[jeanniet]

Here in the UK, T-gel is considered medicated, and one kind actually prescribed by dermatologists for skin conditions including psoriasis and sebboreic dermatitis.

I don't remember exactly, but in a previous thread the OP said he had prescribed products but didn't want to use them. Not sure if that included T-Gel or something else. Here in the US it's OTC.

[Kivamaki]

Considering I just did a bs rinse yesterday and used the clarifying shampoo today would that be too much if I did it again?

Just went to four stores and couldn't find the natures gate, will try at the organic store tomorrow.

[Hotrox]

I would do a quick shampoo, perhaps dilute it a little and only on the scalp, then use a heap tonne of conditioner. If you can't find Nature's Gate, just take a basic one. Leave it on in a steamy shower for a little while and try to comb your hair with it on. It's not going to produce miracles on the first shot but I imagine it would start to help.

Honestly, I can not imagine shampooing with t gel and a clarifying shampoo without conditioner, let alone the baking soda. My hair is crying just thinking about it.

ETA: just read that you did baking soda then clarified two days in a row, I think better just damp it down and condition. We want to put back moisture at this point, not strip out more.

[Kivamaki]

Found a generic conditioner in the house, CLEAR Scalp & Hair Total Conditioner. I conditioned twice, since my hair was hay before hand. It's better, but I keep trying to add baby oil to it and it does nothing to my hair. It's still just really dry and brittle. Tangled at the ends and just a mess.


I did a porosity test and found it is low porosity. Not sure how to get moisture in then.

[spidermom]

Sounds like you're on the right track!

[Kivamaki]

Still not sure how to get moisture in, it's just a wreck.

[spidermom]

Try the coconut oil to length before washing, then wash with diluted shampoo, rinse, conditioner to length, combing it through if you have a shower comb, then rinse. It might take some time to get the moisture back into your hair. Just keep working at it. Clarify about once every month or two; no more often than that.

[Kivamaki]

Try the coconut oil to length before washing, then wash with diluted shampoo, rinse, conditioner to length, combing it through if you have a shower comb, then rinse. It might take some time to get the moisture back into your hair. Just keep working at it. Clarify about once every month or two; no more often than that.

Is the Tgel okay to use for the shampoo? Unsure how to dilute.

[jeanniet]

If you did the float test for porosity, that's not reliable at all. Since your hair is dry and damaged, it's unlikely to be low porosity. Use conditioner, and be patient. It will take timie to improve.

[Kivamaki]

If you did the float test for porosity, that's not reliable at all. Since your hair is dry and damaged, it's unlikely to be low porosity. Use conditioner, and be patient. It will take timie to improve.

I did use the float test, is there a better one?

[tigereye]

Is the Tgel okay to use for the shampoo? Unsure how to dilute.

You just put a dollop of shampoo in a container and mix it with water. I do half shampo, half water, and shake it up in an old travel bottle. This way, I can mix up several washes-worth at once.
T-gel is harsh, but good for your scalp issues - I'd probably dilute it so it's a third shampoo, two thirds water, just because of the harshness. You want to avoid drying your hair out any more.
Leave the conditioner on for a few minutes. It'll take time before it gets the moisture back. Depending on what the humidity is like where you live, an SMT might help a bit.
Do you think mineral or coconut works for you better? Mineral oil works for me, but I prefer coconut as a leave-in (albeit, I haven't used either much as a leave in since getting my nightbloomings panacea).

ETA: a cold-water rinse at the end of a shower really helps to smooth down the cuticle a bit. Might help if your hair really is high porosity.

[lapushka]

Relax at this point and don't try to do everything allatonce. That's going to get you nowhere. Leave it alone for a few days (no washing if you can). Detangle with a wide-tooth comb prior to washing as best you can, then wash, and condition well. Then see what that did.

[furnival]

Still not sure how to get moisture in, it's just a wreck.
Next time you wash, slather loads of conditioner on then wrap your head in plastic wrap, put a hat on and leave it for an hour or two. Instant deep conditioning treatment. :)

[rusika1]

If you feel like you must do something, maybe try an SMT deep conditioning. mix 4 parts conditioner, 1 part honey and 1 part aloe vera gel--somebody said you can use the edible kind which should be available at the health food store. Microwave the mixture until warm--about 10 seconds--and apply to the length (not scalp) of your wet hair. Wrap it up in a plastic bag or shower cap, put a towel over that, then let it marinate for an hour or so. Don't shampoo it out, just rinse it out with water. And although this is the opposite of the usual advice, try VERY CAREFULLY combing your hair in the shower while wet and completely slathered with conditioner. Work on small sections, start at the bottom and work slowly, adding more conditioner if you meet any resistance. It's the only way I can detangle if I've done something dumb like wear my hair down.


Where do you live? not specifically, just which country. That will influence what product recommendations you get.

[Kherome]

Maybe your hair is just super dry from being NW. Maybe an actual wash followed by moisture conditioner would help?

[tigereye]

Relax at this point and don't try to do everything allatonce. That's going to get you nowhere. Leave it alone for a few days (no washing if you can). Detangle with a wide-tooth comb prior to washing as best you can, then wash, and condition well. Then see what that did.

To be honest, this is probably the best thing to do right now. If you're used to NW, your hair probably won't respond very well to every day washing. Leave it a couple of days, then try again.

[Kivamaki]

Thanks again for the responses. Such a hair noob. I put quite a decent amount of coconut oil on my hair this morning since it was pretty dry and puffed up, tangled and frizzy. It still is for the most part because some parts of my hair just wouldn't accept the coconut oil, like the frizzies and my ends. I kept oiling but no success. Seems to get instantly tangled after I comb to, never had that issue before I started NW/SO but who knows, I'm learning!


If you did the float test for porosity, that's not reliable at all. Since your hair is dry and damaged, it's unlikely to be low porosity. Use conditioner, and be patient. It will take timie to improve.

I suppose that's where I struggle on understanding. Because from what I read low porosity could by dry, brittle, tangled hair. Takes forever to get what in the shower, forever to dry. All thing my hair.


You just put a dollop of shampoo in a container and mix it with water. I do half shampo, half water, and shake it up in an old travel bottle. This way, I can mix up several washes-worth at once.
T-gel is harsh, but good for your scalp issues - I'd probably dilute it so it's a third shampoo, two thirds water, just because of the harshness. You want to avoid drying your hair out any more.
Leave the conditioner on for a few minutes. It'll take time before it gets the moisture back. Depending on what the humidity is like where you live, an SMT might help a bit.
Do you think mineral or coconut works for you better? Mineral oil works for me, but I prefer coconut as a leave-in (albeit, I haven't used either much as a leave in since getting my nightbloomings panacea).

ETA: a cold-water rinse at the end of a shower really helps to smooth down the cuticle a bit. Might help if your hair really is high porosity.

What is SMT? Well, the mineral didn't do a single thing when I applied it to wet or dry hair. I just put coconut oil on it with better results, but not much. There are parts of my hair that still refuse to accept the coconut oil and remain dry no matter how much I put on, especially my ends and the frizzies. You say you prefer coconut oil as a leave-in..wouldn't they both be a leave in if you're oiling your hair?


Relax at this point and don't try to do everything allatonce. That's going to get you nowhere. Leave it alone for a few days (no washing if you can). Detangle with a wide-tooth comb prior to washing as best you can, then wash, and condition well. Then see what that did.

I'll give it a few days to try and recoup, I just put coconut oil on with not much success. Do you suggest to keep using the Tgel or a standard shampoo?


If you feel like you must do something, maybe try an SMT deep conditioning. mix 4 parts conditioner, 1 part honey and 1 part aloe vera gel--somebody said you can use the edible kind which should be available at the health food store. Microwave the mixture until warm--about 10 seconds--and apply to the length (not scalp) of your wet hair. Wrap it up in a plastic bag or shower cap, put a towel over that, then let it marinate for an hour or so. Don't shampoo it out, just rinse it out with water. And although this is the opposite of the usual advice, try VERY CAREFULLY combing your hair in the shower while wet and completely slathered with conditioner. Work on small sections, start at the bottom and work slowly, adding more conditioner if you meet any resistance. It's the only way I can detangle if I've done something dumb like wear my hair down.

Where do you live? not specifically, just which country. That will influence what product recommendations you get.

I live in the USA. So, 4 parts, 1 part, what type of measurements?


Maybe your hair is just super dry from being NW. Maybe an actual wash followed by moisture conditioner would help?

Well I did that yesterday with the clarifying shampoo and the conditioned twice afterwards.

[tigereye]

What is SMT? Well, the mineral didn't do a single thing when I applied it to wet or dry hair. I just put coconut oil on it with better results, but not much. There are parts of my hair that still refuse to accept the coconut oil and remain dry no matter how much I put on, especially my ends and the frizzies. You say you prefer coconut oil as a leave-in..wouldn't they both be a leave in if you're oiling your hair?
Yes, I used them as a leave-in. I only meant that they both work, but coconut works better.
An SMT is what rusika described - conditioner, honey and aloe. How much you need depends on the length of your hair - I've only ever done it on hair that's waist-length or longer (because I was a kid last time my hair was shorter than that), and usually just eye-ball it by the amount of conditioner I think I'll need. If you need a measurement, try it in tablespoons - 4 conditioner, one honey, one aloe. Might be too much, but oh well.

[alishaxmarie]

Oil is not a moisturizing agent. Oil and water do not mix so how could oil add water (which is moisture) to your hair? You have to remove the mineral oil in order for the conditioning agents to do their thing since the point of MO is to seal moisture in after your hair is wet. This is why you've been advised to put the MO on damp hair only. However, once you use an oil to seal the moisture in, you're locking new moisture out which is how oil prevents the frizzies. You've been slathering MO and coconut oil onto dry hair since your last clarifying wash which is only further drying your hair out by locking out humidity.

I suggest that after your next shampoo (whether you use the T-gel or clarifying shampoo or some other shampoo, diluted or not), you condition (possibly even conditioning twice as per Lapushka's WCC method), then use some of your conditioner as a leave-in followed by either MO or coconut oil if your hair prefers that. You do not need to pre-poo with coconut oil at this point since you've essentially already done that anyways. To use your conditioner as a leave-in, you can choose to rinse most of the conditioner out (but not all of it) or you can add more conditioner to your hair before you hop out of the shower. The conditioner and oil will help to lock the moisture into your dry, brittle length which is why many people follow the LOC method, especially during winter. (P.S. a link to the WCC and LOC method threads can both be found in Lapushka's signature up-thread :) hth)

Since you have a scalp condition, avoid putting oils or conditioners on your scalp as that may aggravate your scalp further. The only exception would be essential oils known to benefit your particular scalp issue (you can google this, find a thread on it, or ask someone with more familiarity with EO's).

[lapushka]

I'll give it a few days to try and recoup, I just put coconut oil on with not much success. Do you suggest to keep using the Tgel or a standard shampoo?

If you have the T-gel for a reason, then use it.

[Kivamaki]

Just an update:

I've washed my hair a few more times with the Tgel, and conditioned twice, coconut oil on damp hair followed by baby oil. I'm not really getting anywhere with it. My hair still doesn't really get wet in the shower, half my hair is wet, half is like..dry frizzy pieces. And when it dries I have clumps that are still sorta damp but really dry. Really really dry. Also my ends are really tangly and dry, my hair is extremely straight until the last two inches or so that are like a ball of cat hair. But I have zero split ends. Even after a heavy amount of coconut oil it's very fragile and dry. Losing hope and shaving it is on my mind. What am I doing wrong?

Should I go back to sebum only?

(I'm still thinking low porosity maybe? I know the strand test isn't reliable)

[CousinItt]

Just an update:

I've washed my hair a few more times with the Tgel, and conditioned twice, coconut oil on damp hair followed by baby oil. I'm not really getting anywhere with it. My hair still doesn't really get wet in the shower, half my hair is wet, half is like..dry frizzy pieces. And when it dries I have clumps that are still sorta damp but really dry. Really really dry. Also my ends are really tangly and dry, my hair is extremely straight until the last two inches or so that are like a ball of cat hair. But I have zero split ends. Even after a heavy amount of coconut oil it's very fragile and dry. Losing hope and shaving it is on my mind. What am I doing wrong?

Should I go back to sebum only?

(I'm still thinking low porosity maybe? I know the strand test isn't reliable)

some things I learned from my hair that may or may not apply to yours - water temperature will affect your results. I used to use hot water and never had good hair using it. When I switch to tepid/cool water things improve.

i never found coconut oil to be good for preventing tangles and only somewhat effective for retaining moisture. Olive and sesame oils give better slip for detangling. Grapeseed functions similar to mineral oil (if you're seeking an alternative to MO).

if your hair isn't absorbing water due to low porosity, you might want to try damp bunning (if your hair is long enough, you put it in a bun while damp to allow time for water to absorb) or baggying if your hair is shorter (where you keep your damp hair under a shower cap or plastic bag to allow the water to absorb in the hair). I like damp bunning overnight with a small amount of mixed oils. My hair feels stronger and softer afterwards.

Chin up, you will find a solution to your problems - it just takes time and patience.

[memeow]

I think you're overdoing it on the oil. If your hair feels dry, don't add more oil to it--you only want to put oil in damp hair. Does your hair feel sticky? Waxy? It's very difficult for me to imagine dry hair in the shower, and the only way I can see this happening is if you have something on your hair, either oil or waxes left over from SO, that are keeping the water out. I really can't imagine hair without build-up acting that way.

What conditioner are you using? If it's that one you found in your house, I'm wondering if that's a conditioner intended for oily hair, rather than a moisturizer?

I have no idea what you mean when you describe hair that is "sorta damp but really dry".

So, if I were you, I would do another clarifying wash and really lather up the shampoo and work it into your length, as well as your scalp, particularly in the areas that seem to not get wet in the shower. I think you still have buildup there. Next, rinse it out and use a moisturizing conditioner. Seriously just pick up a bottle of v05 from the grocery store, it costs about $2. Work the conditioner into your hair slowly, and leave it for a few minutes. I usually finger-detangle at this stage, and if there isn't enough slip to get through my hair easily, add more conditioner. Rinse the conditioner out really really well, until your hair feels almost squeaky. When you get out of the shower, towel dry, but do not rub the towel in your hair. Instead, place it over your head and pat, firmly but gently, all around your head. You don't want to tangle your freshly detangled hair. Leave your hair alone and don't touch it until it's dry.

I suppose it is possible you have extra low porosity hair that somehow repels water, but I've really never heard of such a thing. Is there any chance you're leaving more conditioner and oil in your hair than you realize? For both coconut oil and mineral oil, less is really more. Adding more oil to dry hair will only dry it out more, and adding a thick layer of oil to wet hair may actually pull the moisture from the hair. You want a really thin layer of either, unless you're using it as a pre-poo treatment, which I wouldn't recommend for you.

If that doesn't work, hold off on washing it again until it's dirty.

[two_wheels]

It sounds like the coconut oil to me, too. I personally would shampoo it again and then use a conditioner. Not oil. They do different things. Then leave it to dry still with no oil. It might be a bit flyaway but I think it would be a good starting point.

Just to be clear- I would get the shampoo all over my hair and lather it, possibly even twice if buildup is still awful, rinse it, and then put a slippy conditioner on (with behentrimonium chloride if you don't like silicones, I think that's the slippy stuff?). Enough conditioner and you should be able to rake your fingers through your hair.

[Kivamaki]

some things I learned from my hair that may or may not apply to yours - water temperature will affect your results. I used to use hot water and never had good hair using it. When I switch to tepid/cool water things improve.

i never found coconut oil to be good for preventing tangles and only somewhat effective for retaining moisture. Olive and sesame oils give better slip for detangling. Grapeseed functions similar to mineral oil (if you're seeking an alternative to MO).

if your hair isn't absorbing water due to low porosity, you might want to try damp bunning (if your hair is long enough, you put it in a bun while damp to allow time for water to absorb) or baggying if your hair is shorter (where you keep your damp hair under a shower cap or plastic bag to allow the water to absorb in the hair). I like damp bunning overnight with a small amount of mixed oils. My hair feels stronger and softer afterwards.

Chin up, you will find a solution to your problems - it just takes time and patience.

I've messed around with water temps, and I don't see a difference really, warm seems to be better for me? Makes me again think of low porosity. Yeah I'm losing hope on the coconut oil, sometimes it works wonders and other times not a thing, and my regime will be the same. I may try olive oil when my hair dries. My hair is still pretty damp right now, and I put it in a top knot bun like you suggested, so hopefully that helps!


I think you're overdoing it on the oil. If your hair feels dry, don't add more oil to it--you only want to put oil in damp hair. Does your hair feel sticky? Waxy? It's very difficult for me to imagine dry hair in the shower, and the only way I can see this happening is if you have something on your hair, either oil or waxes left over from SO, that are keeping the water out. I really can't imagine hair without build-up acting that way.

What conditioner are you using? If it's that one you found in your house, I'm wondering if that's a conditioner intended for oily hair, rather than a moisturizer?

I have no idea what you mean when you describe hair that is "sorta damp but really dry".

So, if I were you, I would do another clarifying wash and really lather up the shampoo and work it into your length, as well as your scalp, particularly in the areas that seem to not get wet in the shower. I think you still have buildup there. Next, rinse it out and use a moisturizing conditioner. Seriously just pick up a bottle of v05 from the grocery store, it costs about $2. Work the conditioner into your hair slowly, and leave it for a few minutes. I usually finger-detangle at this stage, and if there isn't enough slip to get through my hair easily, add more conditioner. Rinse the conditioner out really really well, until your hair feels almost squeaky. When you get out of the shower, towel dry, but do not rub the towel in your hair. Instead, place it over your head and pat, firmly but gently, all around your head. You don't want to tangle your freshly detangled hair. Leave your hair alone and don't touch it until it's dry.

I suppose it is possible you have extra low porosity hair that somehow repels water, but I've really never heard of such a thing. Is there any chance you're leaving more conditioner and oil in your hair than you realize? For both coconut oil and mineral oil, less is really more. Adding more oil to dry hair will only dry it out more, and adding a thick layer of oil to wet hair may actually pull the moisture from the hair. You want a really thin layer of either, unless you're using it as a pre-poo treatment, which I wouldn't recommend for you.

If that doesn't work, hold off on washing it again until it's dirty.

If my hair is dry, what would I apply if not oil? If I use a pretty decent amount of conditioner. What I mean about my hair still being dry under water, is it's like my hair is repelling water, not absorbing it at all, just sits on top and feels dry underneath. (Even after clarifying). Oh and the conditioner I'm using is Clear Scalp and Hair Conditioner.

I just wet my hair again, used a clarifying shampoo, conditioned twice, and left some conditioner in. Pat dried using a tshirt, and I just put it in a top knot, Ends are looking pretty dry, but still really damp.


It sounds like the coconut oil to me, too. I personally would shampoo it again and then use a conditioner. Not oil. They do different things. Then leave it to dry still with no oil. It might be a bit flyaway but I think it would be a good starting point.


Just to be clear- I would get the shampoo all over my hair and lather it, possibly even twice if buildup is still awful, rinse it, and then put a slippy conditioner on (with behentrimonium chloride if you don't like silicones, I think that's the slippy stuff?). Enough conditioner and you should be able to rake your fingers through your hair.

Just clarified, conditioned twice, left some conditioner in afterwards, no oil. So, still damp. Will post back with results again.

[lunalocks]

Coconut oil leaves my hair feeling like straw. coconut oil is not for everyone.

I am one who uses catnip tea after shampooing and as a leave in and use 2 drops baby oil for the damp ends. Ends only. When I wash, I start with conditioner and that gets all the oil and residue out before I shampoo. So, you might want to try the conditioner first to get out all the oil.

You may want to try condition - wash with shampoo - condition, or just use conditioner only.

[tigereye]

Coconut oil leaves my hair feeling like straw. coconut oil is not for everyone.

I am one who uses catnip tea after shampooing and as a leave in and use 2 drops baby oil for the damp ends. Ends only. When I wash, I start with conditioner and that gets all the oil and residue out before I shampoo. So, you might want to try the conditioner first to get out all the oil.

You may want to try condition - wash with shampoo - condition, or just use conditioner only.

True that. Shampoo just will not remove oil for me at all. I need to let the conditioner soak, and detangle then before all the oil will wash out. Which is important because if the oil is still there, no moisture can get in.

[Kivamaki]

True that. Shampoo just will not remove oil for me at all. I need to let the conditioner soak, and detangle then before all the oil will wash out. Which is important because if the oil is still there, no moisture can get in.

I'll give this a shot in a couple days. Condition, shampoo, condition?

[CousinItt]

I have read a study that water can absorb into hair past all natural oils. I'm not totally sure if that also applies to mineral oil, but I think it's likely. My own hair would be a mass of dryness if that weren't the case, since I use oils and only teas or water to clean my hair. The oil only slows the process down - it slows moisture loss or acquisition, which is why damp bunning or baggying can help if oil is slowing down moisture absorption. In the better part of a year of WO and oils, I have yet to experience any irreversible build up. I really doubt it's the oils causing this.

Waxy substances, on the other hand, will completely block the absorption of water. I learned this when I water washed my hair in hot water, which rinsed away all the oily sebum and left behind the waxy. My hair was gummy and dry. It took multiple heavy applications oils in conjunction with washes using diluted dish soap to reset my hair.

[Kivamaki]

Since its still pretty dry and fly away right now, should I oil it? With olive oil instead of coconut. I tried a little bit this morning which helped but still brittle.

[molljo]

What's the water like where you live? Is it hard or soft? The reason clarifying alone might not be working is because there may be metals and minerals built up on your hair. I know that my hair, before chelating, could never seem to get enough moisture, no matter how much conditioner I piled on, even after clarifying. My hair was much like yours; it never seemed to get properly wet enough. I use a clarfiying/chelating combo shampoo, but since you already have a good clarifier, I would recommend getting a swimmer's shampoo (they contain good chelating ingredients). It's worth a shot.

[memeow]

Waxy substances, on the other hand, will completely block the absorption of water. I learned this when I water washed my hair in hot water, which rinsed away all the oily sebum and left behind the waxy. My hair was gummy and dry. It took multiple heavy applications oils in conjunction with washes using diluted dish soap to reset my hair.

Yeah, OP's description of his hair repelling water makes me think of wax too. Mineral oil generally washes off with water. Coconut oil can be a little harder to get off though.

Would clarifying shampoo not be able to get most wax off?

Kivamaki, for dryness I would use a leave-in conditioner. I know a lot of people here use normal conditioner as a leave-in, but I've found some conditioners tend to dry a little bit weird, so I think it depends on what you're using. If you get something specially formulated as a leave-in, it should be fine. You can also try spritzing with water, possibly followed by a very light application of oil. Just putting oil on dry hair will make it worse.

[tigereye]

I have read a study that water can absorb into hair past all natural oils. I'm not totally sure if that also applies to mineral oil, but I think it's likely. My own hair would be a mass of dryness if that weren't the case, since I use oils and only teas or water to clean my hair. The oil only slows the process down - it slows moisture loss or acquisition, which is why damp bunning or baggying can help if oil is slowing down moisture absorption. In the better part of a year of WO and oils, I have yet to experience any irreversible build up. I really doubt it's the oils causing this.

Waxy substances, on the other hand, will completely block the absorption of water. I learned this when I water washed my hair in hot water, which rinsed away all the oily sebum and left behind the waxy. My hair was gummy and dry. It took multiple heavy applications oils in conjunction with washes using diluted dish soap to reset my hair.

Not in my hair. Water will not penetrate my hair through oil or cones. My hair becomes ridiculously dry if I don't properly remove them. I suspect it depends on the hair type.
Coconut oil is always totally solid at room temperature in my flat, and if I use it in the winter would actually go solid in my hair from the cold weather, so I don't know if that contributes to its ability to act like a wax.

[tigereye]

Since its still pretty dry and fly away right now, should I oil it? With olive oil instead of coconut. I tried a little bit this morning which helped but still brittle.

No. Putting oil on dry hair will do nothing. Oil is for sealing in water in damphair, so adding it to dry hair will only perpetuate your problem. If you really must do something, dilute a teaspoon of conditioner in water, and spray it on. At least then you're actually adding some form of water. Otherwise, just leave it until wash day. (ie.do nothing, wear it up, detangle gently, wait it out) Trying to solve every issue by slathering on more and more oil isn't going to get you anywhere.
Fixing a moisture issue takes time. Reflexively doing more and more isn't going to do anything but make everyone frustrated.

[Kivamaki]

What's the water like where you live? Is it hard or soft? The reason clarifying alone might not be working is because there may be metals and minerals built up on your hair. I know that my hair, before chelating, could never seem to get enough moisture, no matter how much conditioner I piled on, even after clarifying. My hair was much like yours; it never seemed to get properly wet enough. I use a clarfiying/chelating combo shampoo, but since you already have a good clarifier, I would recommend getting a swimmer's shampoo (they contain good chelating ingredients). It's worth a shot.

It's city water so it's rough but I use a filtered shower head. What is chelating?

I can buy a leave in conditioner and try that. But I don't see how coating my hair with a conditioner resolves the issue of my hair not taking it moisture, unless I'm confused?

Edit: read up on chelating, which I've never done before, but I do have a filtered shower head, so...

[memeow]

A conditioner is an emulsion between water and some type of sealant, often oils or 'cones. If your hair is clean, it should be able to take moisture in, but spritzing it with water might not do very much, since it will just evaporate away before it has time to absorb into your hair. With a conditioner, the sealant holds the water next to your hair so that it doesn't evaporate so quickly, giving your hair time to absorb it. Most conditioners are formulated to wash off with mild detergent and water, so they shouldn't cause a ton of build-up, but you may want to avoid silicones since it is a concern.

Personally, if my hair is just a little dry I usually put it in a protective style and let it be until I wash it.

[tigereye]

A conditioner is an emulsion between water and some type of sealant, often oils or 'cones. If your hair is clean, it should be able to take moisture in, but spritzing it with water might not do very much, since it will just evaporate away before it has time to absorb into your hair. With a conditioner, the sealant holds the water next to your hair so that it doesn't evaporate so quickly, giving your hair time to absorb it. Most conditioners are formulated to wash off with mild detergent and water, so they shouldn't cause a ton of build-up, but you may want to avoid silicones since it is a concern.

Personally, if my hair is just a little dry I usually put it in a protective style and let it be until I wash it.

If you buy the spray-kind of leave-in, it usually doesn't have silicones.
Personally, I just mix a little regular conditioner with water if my hair needs it.

[spidermom]

All these differing opinions; your head must be spinning.

I would agree that if your hair isn't getting wet, then it probably has buildup, although it could be coarse. My husband's coarse hair seems to shed water, and it dries really fast. His hair thrives if he keeps it simple. He washes it when it gets dirty. That's it. If he wore it longer, it would probably benefit from rinse-out conditioner, too, but he keeps it very short.

Putting oil in my hair when it's dry is completely counter-productive to me. Oil attracts a lot of dust and lint to my hair and makes it tangle up. It's horrible. I think I might have told you this already; I can't remember. For me, the best time to oil is the night before I plan to wash it, or at least an hour before if I remember. I wait until the hair at my scalp gets oily, then I oil the length. Most of the oil comes out during the conditioning stage of my diluted shampoo then condition routine.

You might try conditioning first, massaging the conditioner into your hair thoroughly, combing through, rinsing, then washing (but don't mess your hair all around while washing because it will tangle), finishing with a cool rinse. That's it. No oil. No extra conditioner. It's o.k. to comb over your scalp while shampooing if you have issues with areas that never seem to get clean. Never try to comb through the length, though.

[LauraLongLocks]

Wow, so sorry you are having so much difficulty with your hair. I second what spidermom said about so many suggestions and having your head spin. Holy cow, this thread contains a lot of stuff in it!

I don't want to add to the cacophany of suggestions by adding my own, but wanted to encourage you. Keep your chin up. I'm sure you will find what works if you don't give up.

[AlexDig]

You've gotten some great ideas here but I was just wanted to chime in and say that I definitely have gone through something similar and it did take a while to correct so don't get too freaked out! But something that worked for me was a natural conditioner made out of mashed avocado, coconut milk, honey, and aloe Vera gel (all blended)...this type of mix is easy to customize for hair thickness and length and sounds like you like more natural stuff anyways. When I make it with more avocado and coconut milk in the mix, I use this is a pre shampoi deep conditioner but if I use less of them and more honey and aloe vera gel, I get a conditioner I can use after shampoo.

[CousinItt]

Just bumping the thread out of curiosity - have you made any headway with your hair problem?

[Kivamaki]

Thought I'd update.

I bought Joico chelating/clarifying shampoo along with the K-pak conditioner due to a lot of suggestions and incredible reviews. I keep hearing of you have dry brittle tangled broken hair try this, or this and etc. I get excited every time but to no avail.

After the chelating I conditioned twice. After I rinsed the conditioner out I could hardly run my fingers through my wet hair without ease or a snag. Air dried and was really puffy, dry, super brittle. I broken a ton of hair combing through it.

I've tried shampoo, conditioner, clarifying, chelating, every oil under the sun, mineral oil, water only, sebum only. Ive been washing a couple times a week the last couple weeks and conditioning hoping for improvement but it seems to be going down hill.

I'm leaning towards my hair has ungodly low porosity,since my skin loses moisture real easily too.
Thinking of buzzing my hair when I get home,but would like to avoid that since I buzzed my sideburns off ha. What am I missing?

[spidermom]

Try this. Get a wide-tooth comb that you can use in the bath/shower. Wash as usual. Then massage conditioner through your hair followed by combing through your hair with the wide tooth comb. Be careful; start at the bottom. After you can comb completely through, rinse. Don't mess hair all around, don't towel dry, don't comb again. Let it dry naturally. Post a picture.

[tigereye]

Thought I'd update.

I bought Joico chelating/clarifying shampoo along with the K-pak conditioner due to a lot of suggestions and incredible reviews. I keep hearing of you have dry brittle tangled broken hair try this, or this and etc. I get excited every time but to no avail.

After the chelating I conditioned twice. After I rinsed the conditioner out I could hardly run my fingers through my wet hair without ease or a snag. Air dried and was really puffy, dry, super brittle. I broken a ton of hair combing through it.

I've tried shampoo, conditioner, clarifying, chelating, every oil under the sun, mineral oil, water only, sebum only. Ive been washing a couple times a week the last couple weeks and conditioning hoping for improvement but it seems to be going down hill.

I'm leaning towards my hair has ungodly low porosity,since my skin loses moisture real easily too.
Thinking of buzzing my hair when I get home,but would like to avoid that since I buzzed my sideburns off ha. What am I missing?

The only thing I can think of is CO. It doesn't work for me, but I'm afraid I don't know what else to suggest.

Spidermoms suggestion is a good one. We need to see how your hair is like straight out of the shower, untouched.

[Kivamaki]

Try this. Get a wide-tooth comb that you can use in the bath/shower. Wash as usual. Then massage conditioner through your hair followed by combing through your hair with the wide tooth comb. Be careful; start at the bottom. After you can comb completely through, rinse. Don't mess hair all around, don't towel dry, don't comb again. Let it dry naturally. Post a picture.

This is what I do, I'll do it again when I get home. I don't towel dry but I use a tshirt to soak blott the water out. Should I do this or no?

[tigereye]

This is what I do, I'll do it again when I get home. I don't towel dry but I use a tshirt to soak blott the water out. Should I do this or no?

Id say not this time. Just let it hang dry and avoid touching it.

[Kivamaki]

Just got in, conditioned, combed through and let it sit. Rinsed in cold water and haven't touched it. Been roughly an hour and its still soaking.

Here was when I stepped out of the shower. if this offers anything.

http://i.imgur.com/Cn2Y6gE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/j75ivsz.jpg

EDIT

Not completely dry but this is what I have. SUPER dry and brittle.

http://i.imgur.com/RmtfNIF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/h62rOlX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8ylKLWK.jpg

[tigereye]

It's a little hard to see since there's no picture straight on from the back. However, I see waves/curls, and likely if it was less dry, it would be even more so.

I would normally suggest CO, but if you have to use the shampoo for the psoriasis, it's better not to. You might want to check out the curly-girl method of hair care, and alter it to include the shampoo for your scalp.

[spidermom]

It's definitely wavy. It seems that you've tried pretty much all the external fixes. How are you doing internally? Good diet? High quality fats and proteins? If you don't know, get an account at MyFitnessPal and log your food and drink intake for a few days, see how you're doing on dietary basics.

[Kivamaki]

Here is a back view. The rest of my hair is dead straight and always has been. It's just these ends are now getting tangly curly. I also only conditioned this time with those picture results I posted.

http://i.imgur.com/0VQhxaf.jpg

[tigereye]

Here is a back view. The rest of my hair is dead straight and always has been. It's just these ends are now getting tangly curly. I also only conditioned this time with those picture results I posted.

http://i.imgur.com/0VQhxaf.jpg

My hair turns 1a if I've not washed it in 8 days (which I regularly do). Doesn't mean that it is actually pin straight - it means the sebum was weighing it down (and my scalp is dry - I can go weeks without washing my hair and it never looks greasy, but it does get weighed down and loses its wave. Your ends are now wavy-curly because the clarifying stripped everything off it and left you with your natural hair pattern. Dry, and tangly, but still wavy.