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Lavendersugar
May 4th, 2016, 10:12 AM
Great question, Lavendersugar! :D
It's hard to tell whether it's as damaging, because the damage was seen on different layers:
- all blow-dried tresses showed cuticle damage (and the higher the heat and the shorter the distance, the more damaging it was)
- only air-dried tresses (took 2 hours in their study) showed Cell-Membrane-Complex damage (bulging)

The researchers did not originally set out to show water damage, they designed the study to show heat damage from blow-drying, the CMC damage finding was unexpected, and they mentioned that further studies would be needed. (Still waiting on that ;) )

And they didn't use brushes or heat protection. The hair was in separate tresses (*not* attached to scalp, which produces sebum to coat hair) and washed daily, so that's not exactly representative of how hair is washed/dried necessarily.

They used five test groups:


- (c), (d), (e) showed surface damage, lifting and cracking (Scanning Electron Microscopy).

- (d), (e) showed cuticle damage, punched out cuticles (Transmission Electron Microscopy).

- No group showed cortex damage (TEM).

- (b) showed CMC damage (lipid TEM).

- (b), (c), (d), (e) showed decreased moisture content (moisture content analysis).

- (b), (c), (d), (e) showed color changes (lightness) after 30 treatments, possibly indicating damage.

- (b), (e) showed color changes (lightness) after 10 treatments, possibly indicating damage.

As you can see, everything (except leaving tresses untreated, of course) provided some soft of issues:
- blow-drying: cuticle, surface damage (the higher the temperature and the shorter the distance, the more pronounced the damage),
- air-drying: damage to the CMC and color change (high heat had that effect, as well)
- all forms of drying reduced moisture content and displayed color change (toward lightness).

And notice, how even using higher heat from closer distance for *shorter* period of time still resulted in more damage (cuticle, surface damage and color changes) vs. lower heat at greater distances but used for *longer*. So heat and distance possibly trumped time of exposure to heat source in this case (unless they designed the study to stop using high heat earlier just because the hair would be dry faster anyway)? :hmm:

Full study: Hair Shaft Damage from Heat and Drying Time of Hair Dryer - http://pmcc.web-t.cisti.nrc.ca/articlerender.cgi?accid=PMC3229938

ETA: Oops, sorry for the long OT :oops:

Thank you so much for your detailed response!!! It is very helpful.

Looks as if they also didn't condition the hair which I'm guessing would make a difference even if just a little bit.
Guess we are risking damage either way and need to make the best personal choice.

Going back to this topic given all the wonderful information provided, it would seem long duration treatments would break down hair protein since wetness is damaging. Given that is what causes the softness I personally will only do 20-30 minutes today.
Finally have time to do the treatment.
I will be using Suave Lilac & Lavender conditioner with Lily of the desert 99% aloe. No honey as my hair dislikes it plus the dry climate. I will be clarifying first with Kenra. I plan to allow my hair to hair dry after t-shirt drying before applying the treatment. Simply because my hair likes to hold water but I will still apply it will damp. :pray:

meteor
May 4th, 2016, 11:04 AM
Thank you so much for your detailed response!!! It is very helpful.

Looks as if they also didn't condition the hair which I'm guessing would make a difference even if just a little bit.
Guess we are risking damage either way and need to make the best personal choice.

Going back to this topic given all the wonderful information provided, it would seem long duration treatments would break down hair protein since wetness is damaging. Given that is what causes the softness I personally will only do 20-30 minutes today.
Finally have time to do the treatment.
I will be using Suave Lilac & Lavender conditioner with Lily of the desert 99% aloe. No honey as my hair dislikes it plus the dry climate. I will be clarifying first with Kenra. I plan to allow my hair to hair dry after t-shirt drying before applying the treatment. Simply because my hair likes to hold water but I will still apply it will damp. :pray:

Thanks a lot! :D And I definitely agree on conditioning. I bet it would be interesting to see the test re-performed on actual people with more representative hair routines like, for example, conditioner use. ;)

Oh yes, 20-30 mins is what I tend to do, too.
I really hope it will work out! :D And if it doesn't, one can usually play with ratios, experiment with additives, using SMT pre-wash, etc...
About honey... if the hair doesn't like it, there are other options: all sorts of syrups or molasses, for example... However, they work very similarly to honey (basically humectant action from sugar), so I don't know... :hmm:

Oh, and about pH further up-thread, that's a great point. :agree: I totally agree with Anje and just wanted to add another link on pH and hair's isoionic point changing and how it's important for conditioning: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2013/07/ph-and-your-hair-little-redox-to-make.html
I should add that, personally, I certainly wouldn't want to veer too far up or down from the optimal pH for hair (which can be damaging) just for the purpose of better absorption and adsorption of conditioning ingredients for one simple reason: I only want conditioning ingredients to add slip (without much build-up) and patch up cracks, not to deposit more. I'd much rather keep the hair in close to virgin condition than try to "lift", "get under" the cuticle just to deposit something conditioning (I hear these ideas sometimes on the subject of moisturizing low-porosity hair, but it seems a bit counter-productive to me, since I think keeping cuticle intact is pretty great, better than roughing it up just to patch-repair it later). It's the same principle that I think works with virgin hair that sometimes dislikes oil soaks or heavy conditioning and just likes to be clean or many folks with hair that's in excellent condition mention how their hair doesn't like protein - that's not a problem at all! :D Sometimes, less is more. ;)

samanthaa
May 4th, 2016, 12:34 PM
^ Those are interesting results, especially the part about the unexpected water damage results from air drying, but it makes me wonder how much hair type (thickness, I'm thinking, in particular) affects the effects of air drying. Obviously they didn't control for this, since they were setting out to study water damage. I know there are members here whose hair takes hours to dry. My hair, which is thin and fine, can dry in as little as an hour.

But anyway, to get back on topic, I SMT'd last night with fantastic results! I'm Sun-In'ing my hair to try and lighten my henna, so I followed up my first session with an SMT with coconut oil: 2 parts deep treatment mask, two parts conditioner, 1 part coconut oil, 1 part aloe vera gel, 1 part honey. I've never added coconut oil to an SMT before, so I don't know if my hair ended up so soft because of the coconut oil or because I let a full pot of water boil away for the hour while I let the SMT sit on my head. I was a bit scared by truepeacenik's disclaimer above that a dry climate can cause honey to draw the moisture out of your hair, and I was making dinner anyway, so why not?

The coconut oil rinsed out of my hair surprisingly easy. I didn't shampoo or anything, just rinsed the SMT out, and though my hair is a bit greasier than usual, it isn't the giant greaseball that I was worried about it becoming! And I'm sure the remaining coconut oil will continue to sink into my hair over the next few days.

Sarahm
May 4th, 2016, 03:11 PM
^ Those are interesting results, especially the part about the unexpected water damage results from air drying, but it makes me wonder how much hair type (thickness, I'm thinking, in particular) affects the effects of air drying. Obviously they didn't control for this, since they were setting out to study water damage. I know there are members here whose hair takes hours to dry. My hair, which is thin and fine, can dry in as little as an hour.

But anyway, to get back on topic, I SMT'd last night with fantastic results! I'm Sun-In'ing my hair to try and lighten my henna, so I followed up my first session with an SMT with coconut oil: 2 parts deep treatment mask, two parts conditioner, 1 part coconut oil, 1 part aloe vera gel, 1 part honey. I've never added coconut oil to an SMT before, so I don't know if my hair ended up so soft because of the coconut oil or because I let a full pot of water boil away for the hour while I let the SMT sit on my head. I was a bit scared by truepeacenik's disclaimer above that a dry climate can cause honey to draw the moisture out of your hair, and I was making dinner anyway, so why not?

The coconut oil rinsed out of my hair surprisingly easy. I didn't shampoo or anything, just rinsed the SMT out, and though my hair is a bit greasier than usual, it isn't the giant greaseball that I was worried about it becoming! And I'm sure the remaining coconut oil will continue to sink into my hair over the next few days.

In my case, conditioner is much more effective than shampoo at getting coconut oil out of my hair. I have no idea why, but other members have reported this too.

The pot of boiling water is actually a great idea! Thank you for the advice, I'll definitely try it :D

Oh, and how is the Sun-In working for you? From what I've heard, people get mixed results.

samanthaa
May 5th, 2016, 07:26 AM
In my case, conditioner is much more effective than shampoo at getting coconut oil out of my hair. I have no idea why, but other members have reported this too.

The pot of boiling water is actually a great idea! Thank you for the advice, I'll definitely try it :D

Oh, and how is the Sun-In working for you? From what I've heard, people get mixed results.

I agree about the conditioner! I often get oils out of my hair with a co-wash. I guess I was expecting it to stick around a bit more because I didn't add more conditioner to wash the SMT out. I let the conditioner in the SMT itself "wash" my hair.

It worked well! It definitely steamed up my kitchen windows :P

I've only done one application, two nights ago. It might be in my head at this point, but I think I got some lightening. Again, though, it could all be in my head. I'm following Nightshade's method nearly to the T, and I will post my results after I finish. I think it depends on your starting color. Mine is light brown, blonde as a child, and I'm trying to get back to the henna color that I got after my first application, so I have high hopes that it'll be doable!

Lavendersugar
May 5th, 2016, 05:26 PM
Ok so I did the treatment yesterday. Wow!!! Yes this will be done weekly now.

I didn't do anything as planned. I ended up clarifying with Kenra twice (I always do twice) then I let my hair sit in a t-shirt for about 10 mins. I mixed together Suave rainforest conditioner and Tropical solutions aloe. I liked the ingredients better than Lily of the desert that I intended to use. At this point I had not combed my hair. Removed the t-shirt and applied the mixed after removing as much moisture as possible. At first the mixture was a bit clumpy and wasn't rubbing in well. Then suddenly it started to smooth right on. Combed out my hair and put it into a high pony tail. Braided it and made a bun. Grabbed a hand towel and went on my usual walk. Thought I better have the towel for drips. As it turns out the dry climate prevented drips. Go figure, finally it comes on handy. And yes I went for a walk. I figure I'm the crazy lady people see daily in her bright colors and Birkenstocks so why not wet hair.
When I got back I jumped in the shower. Total time on was just under 30 minutes.
I rarely use leave-ins so I didn't use one yesterday. Detangling was a dream. As it air dried I couldn't help but touch it.

Loved this so much I ordered an Aloe spray for daily use called Real Aloe inc aloe Vera spray. If I don't like it then I'll try George's. As for the Tropical Solutions aloe gel, I think I'll stick with it until I use it up. Can't recall where I bought it from. Definitely sticking to Suave conditioner. Next time I'll probably stay home and cover the hair to see how that works.

This is my hair yesterday after it dried. Just finger combed.
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/lavendersugar/image_zps0lxmnssc.jpeg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/lavendersugar/media/image_zps0lxmnssc.jpeg.html)

henné
May 5th, 2016, 05:38 PM
Hey everyone! It's been about forever and a half since the last time I used SMT as I'm going hardcore no poo and don't even want to use any store-bought conditioner anymore ... The thing I wonder is - do you think it's possible to replace a conditioner with something more natural in smt? Has anyone ever tried it? ;) thanks!

GRU
May 5th, 2016, 08:20 PM
In my case, conditioner is much more effective than shampoo at getting coconut oil out of my hair. I have no idea why, but other members have reported this too.

I believe that conditioner works so well at getting oil out of hair because of the emulsifiers in it. Emulsifiers are meant to allow oil and water to mix together, whereas detergents are meant to split oil and water apart.

Anje
May 6th, 2016, 06:13 AM
Hey everyone! It's been about forever and a half since the last time I used SMT as I'm going hardcore no poo and don't even want to use any store-bought conditioner anymore ... The thing I wonder is - do you think it's possible to replace a conditioner with something more natural in smt? Has anyone ever tried it? ;) thanks!

My first thought is yogurt. Coconut cream or full fat canned coconut milk might work too, but they might be oily. I like the conditioning effects from the emulsifiers in commercial products, though, and I'm not sure what it would be like without those. If it doesn't work, I'd be tempted to buy something like btms-50 from a soapmaking supply and mix it in, in the recommended proportion.

samanthaa
May 6th, 2016, 09:56 AM
Hey everyone! It's been about forever and a half since the last time I used SMT as I'm going hardcore no poo and don't even want to use any store-bought conditioner anymore ... The thing I wonder is - do you think it's possible to replace a conditioner with something more natural in smt? Has anyone ever tried it? ;) thanks!

I was going to suggest coconut milk as well. Yogurt's also a good suggestion. Maybe a blended avocado or banana? Mayonnaise (or eggs)?

kittengirl
May 6th, 2016, 10:12 AM
When I tried this years ago my hair got crunchy from the aloe. Does anyone else have this issue or should I just give it another go? It's been about 5 years and I don't remember what conditioners I used back then.

Lavendersugar
May 6th, 2016, 10:23 AM
My first thought is yogurt. Coconut cream or full fat canned coconut milk might work too, but they might be oily. I like the conditioning effects from the emulsifiers in commercial products, though, and I'm not sure what it would be like without those. If it doesn't work, I'd be tempted to buy something like btms-50 from a soapmaking supply and mix it in, in the recommended proportion.

Coconut cream at least for me is oily so I use it before shampooing.


I was going to suggest coconut milk as well. Yogurt's also a good suggestion. Maybe a blended avocado or banana? Mayonnaise (or eggs)?

Avo is a good choice but may still need to extra extra rinse.


When I tried this years ago my hair got crunchy from the aloe. Does anyone else have this issue or should I just give it another go? It's been about 5 years and I don't remember what conditioners I used back then.

Maybe it was the type of aloe used. I posted my results on the page back and what products I used. It's day 3 and still very silky. I wash daily too.

henné
May 8th, 2016, 10:32 AM
My first thought is yogurt. Coconut cream or full fat canned coconut milk might work too, but they might be oily. I like the conditioning effects from the emulsifiers in commercial products, though, and I'm not sure what it would be like without those. If it doesn't work, I'd be tempted to buy something like btms-50 from a soapmaking supply and mix it in, in the recommended proportion.


I was going to suggest coconut milk as well. Yogurt's also a good suggestion. Maybe a blended avocado or banana? Mayonnaise (or eggs)?

Thank you ladies! I think I'll try it with some banana first and we'll see afterwards. I'll also check out some emulsifiers ...

Arctic
May 8th, 2016, 10:46 AM
I have been trying to make time for weekly SMT lately, and again did so today. I have been adding a drop of castor oil every now and then, this quantity doesn't seem to give me acne.

Vanilla
May 14th, 2016, 05:56 PM
When I tried this years ago my hair got crunchy from the aloe. Does anyone else have this issue or should I just give it another go? It's been about 5 years and I don't remember what conditioners I used back then.

Aloe makes my hair crunchy too. I usually just substitute vegetable glycerin and/or coconut oil for the aloe.

samanthaa
May 18th, 2016, 11:38 AM
I am continuing to have great results with an SMT + coconut oil. My hair looks so soft and shiny, I can't believe it!

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23051&d=1463592720

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23050&d=1463592719

Lavendersugar
May 19th, 2016, 10:17 AM
Looks very nice Samanthaa!!!


Yesterday I used a different Suave (Lavender & Liac which I love) and I got busy and left my SMT in for an hour. Results were not the same. It was less silky feeling.

I'll stick to 20 mins and the Rain Forest Suave.

meteor
May 19th, 2016, 02:39 PM
Samanthaa, that shine is amazing! :applause And that shade of red is simply incredible! Wow! :applause


When I tried this years ago my hair got crunchy from the aloe. Does anyone else have this issue or should I just give it another go? It's been about 5 years and I don't remember what conditioners I used back then.

I have those issues with aloe sometimes, so I replaced aloe with a bit more honey and oil. I do a modified SMT. :)

kittengirl
May 24th, 2016, 08:00 AM
I tried it again and my hair loves it! I accidentally bought clear aloe juice instead of gel but it seems to be working very well, just a hair runny. I've done it twice as my hair is severely dry and the 2nd time I realized I did 4 parts conditioner to 2 parts the other things but my hair is really nice this morning so it must have worked! How often can I do this? Can I do it twice a week when I wash? My hair is severely dry and breaking off at the ends.

Anje
May 24th, 2016, 10:45 AM
I tried it again and my hair loves it! I accidentally bought clear aloe juice instead of gel but it seems to be working very well, just a hair runny. I've done it twice as my hair is severely dry and the 2nd time I realized I did 4 parts conditioner to 2 parts the other things but my hair is really nice this morning so it must have worked! How often can I do this? Can I do it twice a week when I wash? My hair is severely dry and breaking off at the ends.

I think you can do it that frequently, so long as your hair doesn't get lank or stretchy. I wouldn't leave it on longer than 20-30 minutes if doing it frequently, because long periods of staying wet can cumulatively damage hair, but a few more frequent deep conditionings shouldn't hurt anything.

PixieP
May 26th, 2016, 07:59 AM
Ladies, any advice on how to heat the mixture if you do not own a microwave? Doubleboiler?

I'm sure it's mentioned in the thread somewhere but will freely admit today that I'm too lazy for digging.

Anje
May 26th, 2016, 11:50 AM
Doubleboiler should do just fine. The heat helps things penetrate a bit and it can inactivate any peroxide activity in the honey, but it isn't strictly necessary. :)

Arctic
May 26th, 2016, 12:06 PM
I never heat mine (I also don't have microwave oven). If I use shea butter, I might melt it with double boiling method. I think my head gives enough warmth, especially as SMT is covered with plastic bag and then a hat. But, since I've never heated it, I don't really know if I am missing out. I do love SMTs though.

GRU
May 26th, 2016, 02:25 PM
Ladies, any advice on how to heat the mixture if you do not own a microwave? Doubleboiler?

I'm sure it's mentioned in the thread somewhere but will freely admit today that I'm too lazy for digging.

You can also do a pseudo-doubleboiler. Put the SMT in a small container, then float that container in a larger container filled with hot water (from teakettle or from the sink).

PixieP
May 26th, 2016, 02:58 PM
Thank you ladies :) I have tried SMT some years before without warming it up, and it never mixed well and left me with big globs oof honey in my hair :P So I wanna heat it up and see if that works better. I see both my aloe and conditioner is on the recommended-list ^_^ (Jason, Aussie 3mm)

PixieP
May 27th, 2016, 01:02 PM
I put my mix in a glass jar (an old jam jar, lol), and then I put that in a plastic bowl that I'd filled with water from the tap, as hot as the tap would make it. That heated it just enough that everything mixed nicely! :)

samanthaa
June 15th, 2016, 11:00 AM
^ I've done the hot water bath before to melt my honey! I usually heat up the honey and aloe together, then after add the conditioner and mix.

So I experimentally used Aussie 3MM Moist in my SMT last week (I'm normally cone-free) and it made my hair super straight and rather dull. I should have known I wouldn't like the results, as I don't particularly care for Aussie 3MM Moist as a rinse-out either (I'm just trying to use it up and get it out of my shower at this point! I'm now using it to shave my legs lol).

So last night I went back to my SheaMoisture conditioner and did what I guess can be called a modified SMT. I added a tablespoon of olive oil (I've been adding coconut oil with great results, so I figured I'd try olive next) and substituted one part of the conditioner for one part cucumber! I ended up having to blend the cucumber with the aloe, conditioner, and olive oil because there simply wasn't enough of it for the blades to cut through, but in the end I got this nice whipped texture for my SMT!

My hair has regained its shine and feels very soft today, but I can't say I've noticed any marked difference in the results with the cucumber. I'm pleased with the olive oil, simply because it washed out very nicely without the use of any shampoo (I used the SMT as the cleanser), so I will definitely try that again, but I think I'll leave the cucumber out. I have tiny dried pieces of cucumber in my hair today :( (which, to be fair, probably would have come out with shampoo).

vampyyri
June 21st, 2016, 01:33 PM
I tried this two weekends ago, but it seems my hair didn't take well to the honey, and it ended up being a tangled sticky mess that got in my eyes. Maybe an even smaller amount of honey...? I did 1/4 cup honey, 1/4 cup aloe gel, and 1 cup of V05 Strawberry conditioner. It also made my roots a total greaseball, which also happened when I tried COwashing. Could I perhaps just apply the mixture to the length only? Not sure how that would work with it needing to be in a shower cap.

samanthaa
June 21st, 2016, 02:27 PM
^You could just bun your SMT'd length, leave the scalp dry, and slip the shower cap on over your whole head. I've also deep conditioned my length only by bunning it, tying a plastic baggie over the bun, and securing it with a scrunchie or octopus clip. This way your scalp would still be exposed, but you wouldn't get all of the heat trapped under the shower cap.

That's really strange that the honey was sticky for you. I've never had that problem. May a different kind of honey? I personally use a raw one that's nearly solid at room temperature.

vampyyri
June 21st, 2016, 02:39 PM
^You could just bun your SMT'd length, leave the scalp dry, and slip the shower cap on over your whole head. I've also deep conditioned my length only by bunning it, tying a plastic baggie over the bun, and securing it with a scrunchie or octopus clip. This way your scalp would still be exposed, but you wouldn't get all of the heat trapped under the shower cap.

That's really strange that the honey was sticky for you. I've never had that problem. May a different kind of honey? I personally use a raw one that's nearly solid at room temperature.

I think I will try this in the near future, because it made my length nice (abeit, a bit sticky), but I had to shampoo my scalp to kingdom come to get everything out!

I used a really large cheap honey that I got from a wholesale retailer... that could be it.

ETA: I just remembered, I went by cups, not 1/4 cups... 1 cup honey, 1 cup aloe, 4 cups conditioner. I have a sneaking suspicion that that may be it :doh:

school of fish
June 21st, 2016, 06:16 PM
ETA: I just remembered, I went by cups, not 1/4 cups... 1 cup honey, 1 cup aloe, 4 cups conditioner. I have a sneaking suspicion that that may be it :doh:

It could just be a matter of quantity like you stated above ^^

Your proportion is the same between the 1/4 cup and the full cup but that's just a whole lot of quantity for your length! When I make up my weekly SMT I'm using the same proportion but I'm making a 1/2 cup TOTAL :) I just measure in dessertspoonfuls - 8 spoons conditioner, 2 spoons honey, 2 spoons aloe. Same proportion, MUCH smaller amount :)

That 1/2c covers from about my ears down to my ends (I pair my SMT with hennaing my roots so I don't SMT all the way up to scalp), and my hair is TBL and average thickness (3-1/4" pony). The 1/2c is indeed a modest amount and I could probably pile on double that without problems, but I can't even imagine putting 6 cups of anything on my hair!

Lavendersugar
June 21st, 2016, 08:04 PM
I tried this two weekends ago, but it seems my hair didn't take well to the honey, and it ended up being a tangled sticky mess that got in my eyes. Maybe an even smaller amount of honey...? I did 1/4 cup honey, 1/4 cup aloe gel, and 1 cup of V05 Strawberry conditioner. It also made my roots a total greaseball, which also happened when I tried COwashing. Could I perhaps just apply the mixture to the length only? Not sure how that would work with it needing to be in a shower cap.

I can't use honey. My hair simply hates honey. My hair will get frizzy or sticky.

I also noticed my hair did not like the mixture left on longer than 20 mins. I use Suave Essentials (previously Naturals).

gthlvrmx
June 21st, 2016, 10:19 PM
I am not entirely happy with my SMT results. My ends are still dry. I thought the SMT would help give it some moisture, but I think my ends feel even a bit drier.

Horrorpops
June 22nd, 2016, 01:38 AM
gthlvrmx did you bun and then bag your hair or somehow keep the moisture in? I had bad effects first time I did an SMT because my ends were left out of my bun and I didn't put anything over my hair to keep in the moisture. I've heard the humectants in the mix can draw water out of the hair if the environment is drier than the hair! could this have been a problem for you? I felt like that's where I went wrong the first time :o

Similarly I also add some coconut or rosehip oil to my SMTs these days which my hair loves, maybe your ends would like a little oil as well?

Some stuff to consider anyways, sorry you're having troubles with dry ends they're the bane of my existence so I feel your pain! :)

samanthaa
June 22nd, 2016, 08:36 AM
I believe I mentioned this a few pages back but I'll mention it again, if you're in a dry environment (or even a moderate environment, like me) and don't have a humidifier: try boiling a pop of water openly on your stove top either immediately before or during your SMT application. My windows always fog up so I know there's humidity in the air! I got my best SMT results when I did it this way.

Also, I agree with school of fish; vampyyri, your hair is definitely thicker than mine, but I use 4 tablespoons of conditioner to 1 tablespoon of aloe vera and honey each. How even did you get six cups of anything into your hair??

gthlvrmx
June 22nd, 2016, 04:20 PM
gthlvrmx did you bun and then bag your hair or somehow keep the moisture in? I had bad effects first time I did an SMT because my ends were left out of my bun and I didn't put anything over my hair to keep in the moisture. I've heard the humectants in the mix can draw water out of the hair if the environment is drier than the hair! could this have been a problem for you? I felt like that's where I went wrong the first time :o

Similarly I also add some coconut or rosehip oil to my SMTs these days which my hair loves, maybe your ends would like a little oil as well?

Some stuff to consider anyways, sorry you're having troubles with dry ends they're the bane of my existence so I feel your pain! :)
I put on a shower cap but the elastic was loose so it didn't have a tight hold on my head. There were areas where the air could just go to my hair. I used coconut oil before the smt and my ends felt dry, and I used baby oil after the smt and my ends felt a bit better but still dry and actually a bit stiff.

I believe I mentioned this a few pages back but I'll mention it again, if you're in a dry environment (or even a moderate environment, like me) and don't have a humidifier: try boiling a pop of water openly on your stove top either immediately before or during your SMT application. My windows always fog up so I know there's humidity in the air! I got my best SMT results when I did it this way.

Also, I agree with school of fish; vampyyri, your hair is definitely thicker than mine, but I use 4 tablespoons of conditioner to 1 tablespoon of aloe vera and honey each. How even did you get six cups of anything into your hair??
You know what, I think both of you guys are right, the humectants sucked the moisture out of my hair. I had the window open the whole time and my shower cap was loose. I checked the dew point during the treatment and it was at 52 F but the humidity was 37 percent I think. I also didn't let the bathroom get all steamy and full of vapor.

vampyyri
June 22nd, 2016, 05:50 PM
It could just be a matter of quantity like you stated above ^^

Your proportion is the same between the 1/4 cup and the full cup but that's just a whole lot of quantity for your length! When I make up my weekly SMT I'm using the same proportion but I'm making a 1/2 cup TOTAL :) I just measure in dessertspoonfuls - 8 spoons conditioner, 2 spoons honey, 2 spoons aloe. Same proportion, MUCH smaller amount :)

That 1/2c covers from about my ears down to my ends (I pair my SMT with hennaing my roots so I don't SMT all the way up to scalp), and my hair is TBL and average thickness (3-1/4" pony). The 1/2c is indeed a modest amount and I could probably pile on double that without problems, but I can't even imagine putting 6 cups of anything on my hair!

Hahahaha WHOOPS xD :rolling:


I can't use honey. My hair simply hates honey. My hair will get frizzy or sticky.

I also noticed my hair did not like the mixture left on longer than 20 mins. I use Suave Essentials (previously Naturals).

I think my hair does too! I added honey to another deep treatment and my hair rebelled!



Also, I agree with school of fish; vampyyri, your hair is definitely thicker than mine, but I use 4 tablespoons of conditioner to 1 tablespoon of aloe vera and honey each. How even did you get six cups of anything into your hair??

It stayed in there somehow!! Minus the drippings down my shirt and face, that is! My ponytail measurement is about 3.5", so pretty close to being iii thickness hair! :lol:


I currently have a treatment in just the lengths of my hair with a concoction of 3 of my favorite silicone free conditioners and some aloe gel, it was about two handfuls. We shall see how this turns out!

miss_donya
June 24th, 2016, 05:19 PM
Has anyone tried garnier's ultimate blends (avocado and Shea) for this treatment? I feel like it might be super moisturizing :D

notnotevil
June 25th, 2016, 07:45 PM
Has anyone tried garnier's ultimate blends (avocado and Shea) for this treatment? I feel like it might be super moisturizing :D

Heyo good question! I live in Europe so we don't have Ultimate Blends line, but I read in a thread here (can't find it right now) that they're one and the same with Ultra Doux (it's supposed to be the European version of the line).
I've been using Ultra Doux: avocado oil and shea butter for 3 weeks and I'm eager to use it in SMT - it sounds good for it! Not coney and my hair likes it, so I expect it to be good.

miss_donya
June 26th, 2016, 11:26 AM
Heyo good question! I live in Europe so we don't have Ultimate Blends line, but I read in a thread here (can't find it right now) that they're one and the same with Ultra Doux (it's supposed to be the European version of the line).
I've been using Ultra Doux: avocado oil and shea butter for 3 weeks and I'm eager to use it in SMT - it sounds good for it! Not coney and my hair likes it, so I expect it to be good.

Actually, I'm also using the European version because that's the one we have where I live. Let me know how it goes if you try it!

vampyyri
June 26th, 2016, 02:14 PM
I've had an SMT in my hair for about 4 hours now while I did chores around the house. I basically used Shea Moisture's Shea Treatment, Nature's Gate Aloe Conditioner, Strawberry V05 conditioner, and aloe gel. I'm excited to see if having it on for this long will make a difference.

miss_donya
June 26th, 2016, 02:24 PM
Do let us know! :D

miss_donya
June 26th, 2016, 02:25 PM
Has anyone tried adding cocoa butter to the mixture?

vampyyri
June 26th, 2016, 05:24 PM
Do let us know! :D

I shampooed my scalp with a sulfate free shampoo to avoid the greasy roots, rinsed everything out, and followed it up with my usual conditioner. It came out super soft!!

notnotevil
June 26th, 2016, 05:41 PM
Actually, I'm also using the European version because that's the one we have where I live. Let me know how it goes if you try it!

I tried it today! :)

I was worried it might be too much for my length (1 part = 1 Tsp), but my hair held onto it.
This is my first SMT so I can't compare it to any other. But for a first time it went swimmingly. It was easier to mix once warmed up, no blotches (I used some runnier honey), applied it on freshly clarified (b/c I had been using conditioners with silicones a lot before this) damp hair, left it on for 5 hours. Washed it off and let it air dry - hair feels very silky and soft, my usually dry hair is significantly less dry (even the ends, which I thought were just too damaged to change).
It seems that the conditioner worked well for the SMT on me. :)

I have 1 thing to note, is that it took a bit more to wash it out than I expected (I had to go back to the shower and do a small CO and lots of rinsing with water, my guess is because of the honey).

Barefootgirl555
June 28th, 2016, 05:13 PM
I am looking forward to trying this for the first time. My hair is dry and porous.. for those with dry hair, does this method work better for you as a deep conditioning treatment than using just a hot coconut oil treatment? thanks`

miss_donya
June 29th, 2016, 02:30 AM
I prefer this to coconut oil. I get nice shine from the oil but this treat,net gives my hair softness and moisture

miss_donya
June 29th, 2016, 02:30 AM
*treatment

samanthaa
June 29th, 2016, 08:30 AM
I've been experimenting with add-ins in my SMTs lately. I've added cassia before and been very happy with the results, but last night was absolutely something else! I don't know if my hair responded better to the conditioners I used this time or what, but I've never had hair this soft, ever! And the shine! Holy cow.

I used 1 part pre-mixed cassia, 2 parts SheaMoisture Raw Shea Butter Deep Treatment Masque, 1 part Swanson Premium Argan Oil Conditioner (or the Biotin Conditioner with Silica?; I can't remember which one I opened; I think Argan), 1 part raw white honey, 1 part aloe vera gel.

I wish I could capture the shine on camera. This picture does not do it justice at all:

http://i.imgur.com/j7Xvnta.jpg

miss_donya
July 1st, 2016, 01:33 PM
It looks beautiful :o:o:o

vampyyri
July 1st, 2016, 07:36 PM
Brewed up yet another SMT, with a few changes:

Shea Moisture Shea Butter Treatment, Nature's Gate Aloe Conditioner, V05 Strawberry Conditioner, a dime sized amount of honey, 10 pumps of aloe gel, and enough strongly brewed chamomile tea to thin it out.

I just washed it out, and I'm not so sure about this one. My hair loves all of these things normally, minus the honey. I figured I would use a really small amount, but it seems my hair is slightly tangle prone. I currently have it up in a turbie twist to dry for a while, so we'll see...

Cailinls
July 2nd, 2016, 11:51 PM
So I tried my first SMT treatment a couple of weeks ago... I am hooked, astounded and SO grateful! My hair has/had lost all of its luster... which is truly tragic because I am a natural redhead and my hair would shine like copper in the sun. It was dull and dead looking and recently I kept it hidden under bandannas whenever I went out in the sun because the light just made it look dingy instead of shining. I do an overnight oil treatment (coconut and argan) on Sundays and then I work in SMT on Monday and leave it in for about an hour wrapped in a grocery bag and hot towel. Then I slowly rinse it out. (adding small amounts of water and working it through two or three times before rinsing out completely) I was amazed that the SMT removes the oil better than shampoo x 2! Every week it seems to get better and when I saw that shine I was hooked!

lithostoic
July 4th, 2016, 12:16 PM
Used aloe vera gel on my face last night and it feels great, can't wait to try it in my hair.

anou
July 4th, 2016, 02:13 PM
I really want to try an SMT. I don't cowash, so how do you guys do this? Shampoo first and then do the SMT? Or SMT and then shampoo it out?

Arctic
July 4th, 2016, 02:18 PM
Anou, I have done both! :) Which ever suits my schedule better.

littlestarface
July 4th, 2016, 02:25 PM
I've never shampood out a smt as per the OP


SMT Recipe
4 parts conditioner
1 part honey
1 part clear aloe gel

Heat in the microwave for a few seconds til it's warm, then apply to wet or dry hair (especially the ends). Cover hair with a shower cap/shopping bag/clingy food wrap/whatever, and let it sit for as long as you can stand it (30 minutes to overnight). Rinse out, do not shampoo. As it's just a moisturizing treatment there shouldn't be any need to wash it out, a rinse will be sufficient enough.

miss_donya
July 4th, 2016, 04:55 PM
Brewed up yet another SMT, with a few changes:

Shea Moisture Shea Butter Treatment, Nature's Gate Aloe Conditioner, V05 Strawberry Conditioner, a dime sized amount of honey, 10 pumps of aloe gel, and enough strongly brewed chamomile tea to thin it out.

I just washed it out, and I'm not so sure about this one. My hair loves all of these things normally, minus the honey. I figured I would use a really small amount, but it seems my hair is slightly tangle prone. I currently have it up in a turbie twist to dry for a while, so we'll see...

maybe it was the combination together? Have you tried the mix before without the honey? It could also be that your hair doesn't like honey.

miss_donya
July 4th, 2016, 04:57 PM
Anou, I haven't used it before shampoo. I use it as a deep conditioner, after shampooing ( if I shampoo).

lithostoic
July 10th, 2016, 12:26 AM
Can I use regular 'ol plastic bear jar honey? First timer, don't want to splurge in case my hair hates it.

Decoy24601
July 10th, 2016, 12:27 AM
Can I use regular 'ol plastic bear jar honey? First timer, don't want to splurge in case my hair hates it.

That's what I use and my hair seems to be fine with it. I've never tried using raw/unprocessed honey.

lithostoic
July 10th, 2016, 12:29 AM
Thanks Decoy ^-^

Decoy24601
July 10th, 2016, 12:39 AM
You're welcome lithostoic :o. Now that you mention it though, I'm really curious if raw honey would actually make any difference at all. I might have to buy some and try it out just to see what happens. I doubt it'll do anything different, but you've fed my curiosity.

Anje
July 10th, 2016, 03:56 PM
Can I use regular 'ol plastic bear jar honey? First timer, don't want to splurge in case my hair hates it.

Totally. I've even experimented with stuff like cheapo pancake syrup, and that works fine too.

leilan
July 10th, 2016, 04:28 PM
I've got a question about doing an SMT in high humidity. I live in Southern TX, and the humidity and dew point are regularly in the 60s-70s. I've done a basic SMT with honey, aloe vera and GVP Conditioning Balm (first ingredient: propylene glycol, a strong humectant). Is it possible that I'm overloading my hair with humectants and moisture in this high humidity?

lithostoic
July 10th, 2016, 04:44 PM
Idk leilan but if you're right then I'm boned. My area is 76% humidity right now and it hasn't even rained yet.

Decoy24601
July 10th, 2016, 06:29 PM
I've got a question about doing an SMT in high humidity. I live in Southern TX, and the humidity and dew point are regularly in the 60s-70s. I've done a basic SMT with honey, aloe vera and GVP Conditioning Balm (first ingredient: propylene glycol, a strong humectant). Is it possible that I'm overloading my hair with humectants and moisture in this high humidity?

I've done SMTs in 90+% humidity before and my hair still loves it, but I have low-porosity hair I think, so YMMV.

vampyyri
July 10th, 2016, 07:36 PM
maybe it was the combination together? Have you tried the mix before without the honey? It could also be that your hair doesn't like honey.

Without honey, my hair loves it! I've used honey in other ways like adding it to my conditioner for more slip, and it just sucks all the life out of my hair. As much as I want another item in my pantry to be a miracle worker, my hair and honey don't mix :shrug:

leilan
July 10th, 2016, 08:25 PM
I've done SMTs in 90+% humidity before and my hair still loves it, but I have low-porosity hair I think, so YMMV.

Thanks for the input! I think my hair is low-medium porosity, but since it's now constantly in a state of frizz, I wonder if the humidity plus humectants is just too much.

Decoy24601
July 10th, 2016, 08:38 PM
Thanks for the input! I think my hair is low-medium porosity, but since it's now constantly in a state of frizz, I wonder if the humidity plus humectants is just too much.

One user, I don't remember who, posted somewhere on here that they thought the reason why hair gets frizzy in humidity is because it has less moisture than the air around it, which causes it to frizz. So, going by that theory, more moisture should help keep the hair from frizzing in humidity. I notice that if my hair gets too dry it'll frizz more. I have no idea if that theory is correct at all, but I don't think high humidity should stop you from keeping your hair moisturized. I've heard some people have issues with putting too much aloe in their hair or other heavy humectants every day, but an SMT once every week or two should be fine. Using a few drops of penetrating oils like coconut oil could also help with the frizz.

You could also try keeping it on for less time.

lithostoic
July 11th, 2016, 12:24 PM
Currently doing my first ever SMT c: Smells great. Wish me luck!

leilan
July 11th, 2016, 12:52 PM
One user, I don't remember who, posted somewhere on here that they thought the reason why hair gets frizzy in humidity is because it has less moisture than the air around it, which causes it to frizz. So, going by that theory, more moisture should help keep the hair from frizzing in humidity. I notice that if my hair gets too dry it'll frizz more. I have no idea if that theory is correct at all, but I don't think high humidity should stop you from keeping your hair moisturized. I've heard some people have issues with putting too much aloe in their hair or other heavy humectants every day, but an SMT once every week or two should be fine. Using a few drops of penetrating oils like coconut oil could also help with the frizz.

You could also try keeping it on for less time.

You're probably right, if I do it infrequently it will probably be all right. I have been pre-oiling with coconut oil before washes, but haven't seen much improvement yet...

Good luck, lithostoic! Hope it goes well for you!

lithostoic
July 11th, 2016, 03:07 PM
Before and after c: Before had been combed every day for a few days, after is left to air dry with as little manipulation as possible (squeeze excess water out of hair, pat dry a little, shake head to let hair fall into place).

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13640726_1359876830695732_1338992685126550706_o.jp g?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13603420_1359876894029059_5060622532683416280_o.jp g?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9

What do you think? :D I've noticed body, wave definition, and softness. My frizz has settled into waveage. Usually, moisturizing treatments pull my hair straight, so this was a nice surprise. I think I can call solid 1c. I just needed to tame the frizz!

leilan
July 12th, 2016, 11:25 AM
lithostoic, your hair looks great! It looks like the SMT really helped, and it's awesome that it brought out some waves.

Ligeia Noire
July 12th, 2016, 05:44 PM
was reading lots about SMT but a little afraid about the honey and Aloe vera, once I live in a very dry climate.... maybe I will give it a go.

Katia_k
July 19th, 2016, 12:06 AM
So excited for my horrible summer class to be over so I can do a day of protein and SMT. Gonna try a different conditioner this time though, because the one I used the first time, while fabulous, is also really expensive so using half a cup at a time is not gonna be sustainable. I really hope it works as well with a less fab conditioner.

samanthaa
July 19th, 2016, 08:13 AM
Katia_k, you may find yourself surprised! Many people here use cheaper conditioners to great results.

Has anyone, maybe any vegans, substituted agave nectar for honey? I decided to buy the former instead of the latter yesterday at the grocery store and I'm planning to try it out tonight in my SMT!

meteor
July 19th, 2016, 12:04 PM
Has anyone, maybe any vegans, substituted agave nectar for honey? I decided to buy the former instead of the latter yesterday at the grocery store and I'm planning to try it out tonight in my SMT!

I haven't tried it specifically with agave nectar, but I often use any type of syrup instead of honey. It works like a charm. ;)

-Fern
July 19th, 2016, 06:25 PM
samanthaa - I have used molasses before and it worked fine.

I did want to chime in here to say that I made an SMT on Monday with an extra 1/2 tsp of jojoba oil and 1/2 tsp of Selkie. My hair turned out sooooo soft and shiny. But now I'm kicking myself for not trying just one at a time, because now I don't know what to attribute it to! :lol:

Johannah
July 20th, 2016, 03:56 AM
I haven't tried it specifically with agave nectar, but I often use any type of syrup instead of honey. It works like a charm. ;)

Syrup?? Isn't that waaaay to sticky?

Anje
July 20th, 2016, 07:49 AM
Syrup?? Isn't that waaaay to sticky?

When it's in, but so is honey. Once you rinse it, it comes out nicely (at least, if you kept it covered and moist) and it's probably the ingredient that makes this so effective at moisturizing.

meteor
July 20th, 2016, 10:03 AM
^ Oh yes! :agree: It's probably the humectant properties of sugar in it that work... but everything sugar-y is sticky too, it's fine after it's rinsed out though. :) Glycerin has similar effect.

samanthaa
July 20th, 2016, 11:33 AM
My SMT results with the agave nectar weren't nearly as impressive as they usually. HOWEVER, I'm not attributing this to the agave nectar per se.

I used the same conditioners that I posted here, from a recipe that I loved:


I've been experimenting with add-ins in my SMTs lately. I've added cassia before and been very happy with the results, but last night was absolutely something else! I don't know if my hair responded better to the conditioners I used this time or what, but I've never had hair this soft, ever! And the shine! Holy cow.

I used 1 part pre-mixed cassia, 2 parts SheaMoisture Raw Shea Butter Deep Treatment Masque, 1 part Swanson Premium Argan Oil Conditioner (or the Biotin Conditioner with Silica?; I can't remember which one I opened; I think Argan), 1 part raw white honey, 1 part aloe vera gel.

But this time 3 parts SheaMoisture Raw Shea Butter Deep Treatment Masque instead of 2, since I left the cassia out (also, I was mistaken, it was the Biotin Conditioner, not the Argan Oil one). I'm doing an experiment with argan oil right now, so I added 1 part argan to my SMT last night as well (I've had great results adding both coconut and olive oil to my SMTs, particularly coconut).

But as soon as I washed it out I knew that something was wrong. My hair didn't feel conditioned. I was a bit scared to comb it, and indeed I did have more tangles at the crown than usual. By the time my hair dried, the ends felt tangly. My hair was shiny, certainly, but not SOFT. Today, wearing it down, it hardly feels like I SMT'd.

Ehh so I don't know. Could it be the extra Deep Treatment Masque my hair didn't like (indeed it doesn't like the regular conditioner from that SheaMoisture line, which leaves it tangled)? The agave nectar? The argan oil? I don't know. I guess that's what I get for trying too many things at once.

miss_donya
July 20th, 2016, 01:28 PM
Maybe it was too much moisture ?

Decoy24601
July 24th, 2016, 09:09 PM
I have a SMT in my hair right now. Overloaded my hair with protein the past week, so I'm trying to get rid of that dry, rough, tacky, tangled feeling. I used some old conditioners I'm trying to use up plus Hello Hydration, so I'm curious to see how my hair feels after this.

ETA: After rinsing out my SMT I applied just a bit of MO to the length of my hair and rinsed that out with conditioner. My hair has a bit of an odd texture right now, similar to how it feels after using coconut oil on my hair. It's also taking much longer to dry, so I'll have to see how my hair is in the morning when it's fully dry.

vampyyri
July 27th, 2016, 11:12 AM
I kinda did a weird thing with a (sort of?) SMT. I wet my hair's length before bed, and put no cone conditioner and aloe through it. Then I braided it and wore it to bed without anything to keep the heat in other than my massive pile of blankets.

I woke up this morning and showered as usual, and my hair was really soft from leaving those two ingredients in overnight. Perhaps a bit too soft because it wants to explode out of the braided cinnabun that I put it in :lol:

miss_donya
July 28th, 2016, 07:22 AM
I have a SMT in my hair right now. Overloaded my hair with protein the past week, so I'm trying to get rid of that dry, rough, tacky, tangled feeling. I used some old conditioners I'm trying to use up plus Hello Hydration, so I'm curious to see how my hair feels after this.

ETA: After rinsing out my SMT I applied just a bit of MO to the length of my hair and rinsed that out with conditioner. My hair has a bit of an odd texture right now, similar to how it feels after using coconut oil on my hair. It's also taking much longer to dry, so I'll have to see how my hair is in the morning when it's fully dry.
Doesn't hello hydration contain cones? I think it's not recommended to use cones for SMTs


Also, does anyone know how fresh raw aloe gel would be in an SMT ? I just cut up some aloe leaves yesterday :)

samanthaa
July 28th, 2016, 07:33 AM
^ I'm sure fresh aloe vera gel would be awesome--no chemicals! I currently use this one from Mountain Rose Herbs (https://www.mountainroseherbs.com/products/aloe-vera-gel/profile) which is the closest one I've found to "pure" aloe, but I can't wait to finish it up and start using my aloe plant.

miss_donya
July 28th, 2016, 09:07 AM
^ I'm sure fresh aloe vera gel would be awesome--no chemicals! I currently use this one from Mountain Rose Herbs (https://www.mountainroseherbs.com/products/aloe-vera-gel/profile) which is the closest one I've found to "pure" aloe, but I can't wait to finish it up and start using my aloe plant.

I put the jelly like pieces in the blender to get a gel like consistency, but I was told by my friend that aloe Vera should be used immediately or it will lose potency. Is that true? I'm currently sitting with an SMT on my head so I'll report back to see if it worked well. I've also got some extra and we'll see if it's just as good next time. Has anybody noticed if SMTs help with split ends? I'm trying to stretch as much as I can before I need another one, usually I get splits two months after the trim; or just very velcro-ish hair that's ultra crunchy, but that was before I committed to LHC.

ETA: I've just done the SMT my hair is still drying up, so far so good. I will say though, I had tiny little pieces of aloe " skin" that I noticed right before I got out of the shower; they were quite difficult to rinse out, I got out of the shower after spending ages trying to get it out and brushed my hair with my wet brush and there were still pieces coming out. I think it will all come out with a boar bristle brush. I'll try to strain the aloe next time.

Decoy24601
July 28th, 2016, 01:26 PM
Doesn't hello hydration contain cones? I think it's not recommended to use cones for SMTs


Also, does anyone know how fresh raw aloe gel would be in an SMT ? I just cut up some aloe leaves yesterday :)

Yes, it does, and I don't see why cones would cause an issue unless you don't use cones. I have been using light cones in my SMT for a while now with no issues. It's hard to find cone-free conditioners that have anything in them that's moisturizing (as I found out when I did try to go cone-free here) where I live. Plus, HH is a lighter cone anyways. (bis-aminopropyl dimethicone, similar, but heavier in my opinion than amodimethicone). I'm 100% sure the odd texture I got after the SMT was from the MO and the fact that I used Pantene Ice Shine to get the SMT out of my hair (which has been making my hair feel odd when I try to use it).

There are other ingredients in cone-free conditioners that can cause even more buildup in some hair than some conditioners with cones, so :shrug: it works for me.

ETA: I think it's one of those YMMV things.

littlestarface
July 28th, 2016, 01:55 PM
Miss donya got it from the first page:

A few notes:
Conditioners work best when they have minimal protein. Many people also avoid conditioners with silicone compounds for this. (I haven't experimented with protein ones, so that's word-of-mouth. I think protein-containing conditioners are likely to give lumpy, blobby results.)* Wrong conditioner (see the above lists); cones seem to cause adverse effects, curdling and hard rinsing.

wispe
August 18th, 2016, 04:13 PM
I don't have aloe so I did a modified SMT instead. 1 part honey (Hilltop Gardens, pure raw), 1 part 3MM (strong, not moist... though next time I'll use moist), and 3 parts Hask argan oil repairing conditioner, since I had those on hand. It mixed up nice and smooth. Used after clarifying and left it on for 3 hours covered in a plastic shopping bag with a twist turban on top. My hair feels really nice! I didn't use any sort of oil or leave-in after (I usually do on my ends) and my hair feels super moisturized. Not frizzy and my ends feel really good. Will definitely repeat.

lithostoic
August 18th, 2016, 06:40 PM
Gonna do this again soon. I plan on using hair product on Saturday so next wash I'll clarify and smt after.

Phalaenopsis
August 23rd, 2016, 12:40 PM
I have it on my head right now. I followed it by the book. It did have a honey lightnening experiment that went wrong in the past, but the concoction I made there was made on purpose to get the peroxide to work. Never again, my hair was so dry. I just hope now, with warming it up for 10 seconds in the microwave, that it won't bleach my hair?

lithostoic
August 23rd, 2016, 02:50 PM
Did a modification using coconut oil in place of conditioner since my scalp hates that. Not impressed with the watery consistency (had to use a spoon to get it out the bowl) and the honey and avg formed little gooey balls. Next time I'll try the shea moisture deep treatment instead. Or if I really like the results from this one, I'll try separating the ingredients.

samanthaa
September 7th, 2016, 10:54 AM
Finally finally finally SMT'd! It's been, like, two months since my last one.

I ran out of aloe vera gel so I used two leaves from my aloe vera plant. It wasn't nearly enough to make up one full part, oh well. And now my plant is skint :(

Also added coconut oil because I love that stuff in an SMT.

Soft soft soft hair!

Wildcat Diva
September 10th, 2016, 05:01 PM
Reposting from my blog:

Today it's hot. 83F but could be worse. Dew point 71F. Humidity 70%

Backstory: SMT usually a fail because clumps... I can't get it to work. Today... Had success. Here are the details and pic results.

What I did:
I used an applicator bottle. Loved this option.
Added about an ounce of raw honey (bought at Whole Foods: "madhava: Organic Very Raw Honey, unfiltered 100%). Added a small amount of vegetable glycerin- about 3/4 teaspoon. Added about a tablespoon olive oil. Shook it up. Added about 2 tablespoons distilled water. Shook it.


Added conditioner: Kinky Curly Knot Today from Target. About 2-3 oz. Shook more. Added a little more distilled water to get it runnier.


At this point, I didn't want to add the aloe gel (insert sense of dread here), because KCKT conditioner is expensive and if it clumped up (like usual when I add aloe gel), I was gonna be pissed.).

So, I applied it like this, taking my time and squirting it all onto my dry scalp and hair, working it in with fingers.


When I got to the last 2 ounces or so of the mix (it was almost five oz at the start of application), I said screw it and added almost one ounce of Fruit of the Earth brand aloe gel. Shook it up and squirted it out in hand... no significant clumps, so I applied it to hair.

Left one hour under disposable plastic cap. Rinsed out very well. Lovely rinse out. No tangles (!!!). Hair felt a bit coated. I didn't care.
No additional leave in.
I think it's a win.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j386/janineevans/087AB50F-46AA-4C0D-B9A4-828912A81DEE_zpscreslwbs.png

Note: a little frizz is there, yes. It's ok. No leave in or oil here. I wanted to see what it would do.

Questions:

Is KCKT just a bad ass conditioner for this application or did I do something that made it not clump this time?

Did adding aloe last do anything to help it?

Did adding the other ingredients like the oils and water and glycerin help it to not clump?

What will happen if I heat it? Will it clump then?

For next time: Heat honey first. I'm a little scared it lightened things a tiny bit. Also. Try rose water. Try aloe juice. Next time use heat cap. Continue to use applicator bottle, that was awesome.

miss_donya
September 11th, 2016, 09:25 AM
I couldn’t get my hands on aloe vera gel for a while and I now stumbled upon some aloe vera juice, what ratios should I use when using the juice? Do I go with the basic 1 part aloe 1 part honey 4 parts conditioner recipe?

Arctic
September 11th, 2016, 10:32 AM
Liquid might make your mixture too runny and drippy, so I'd either use less of aloe juice than in the orginal recipe, or, maybe damped your hair with the juice, mix conditoner with honey and slather on your dampened hair. Maybe that would work.

Wildcat Diva
September 11th, 2016, 10:58 AM
I added quite a bit of distilled water to my applicator bottle to my mix. It worked fine once shook up and squirted onto dry hair.

Maybe 1 ounce.

Distilled water could be replaced with aloe juice.

I think I had about one oz of water, one oz of honey, 1/2 oz oils, and then the rest conditioner.

Lily_white
September 13th, 2016, 01:09 PM
I think I'm going to try doing an SMT for the first time after I clarify tomorrow.

Has anyone tried using a conditioner from Urtekram?

animetor7
September 14th, 2016, 07:39 PM
Has anyone used Herbal Essences Hello Hydration for the conditioner in the SMT? I'm thinking it would make for a very moisturizing deep condition.

RebekahE
September 14th, 2016, 08:06 PM
I haven't though now that you mention it, animetor, I may have to try it.

Next time I do an SMT I will have to mix up the aloe vera and conditioner and work that into my scalp and then add honey and work that into my length. My scalp protests with the honey and sheds more, yet my hair loves it.

Greenfire
September 22nd, 2016, 08:44 PM
I'm terrible at even using conditioner (I know!) but figure I better, cause my hair's starting to get extra tangly now that it's longer. Sooo... I decided to give this a try. I'm using One 'Only Argan Oil moisture repair conditioner, which smells fantastic on its own, but adding honey to it? OMG my entire house smells amazing. I didn't even really warm it up that much, just enough to mix the honey in. It SO far seems to be a good mix, we'll see how it washes out.

I'm going to try to sleep with it in, and rinse it in the morning.

But yeah, this stuff smells fantastic, hope it does as much for my hair as it's doing for my sense of smell!

littlestarface
September 23rd, 2016, 12:56 PM
I'm terrible at even using conditioner (I know!) but figure I better, cause my hair's starting to get extra tangly now that it's longer. Sooo... I decided to give this a try. I'm using One 'Only Argan Oil moisture repair conditioner, which smells fantastic on its own, but adding honey to it? OMG my entire house smells amazing. I didn't even really warm it up that much, just enough to mix the honey in. It SO far seems to be a good mix, we'll see how it washes out.

I'm going to try to sleep with it in, and rinse it in the morning.

But yeah, this stuff smells fantastic, hope it does as much for my hair as it's doing for my sense of smell!

Does it have cones in it?

Wildcat Diva
September 23rd, 2016, 01:29 PM
I tried KCKT again and it was a win again. It wasn't a fluke!

Lize
September 24th, 2016, 10:54 AM
Interestingly I have been an LHC member for ten years and never tried SMT. I was thinking about trying it for tomorrow's wash. Just have to buy some aloe vera gel.

JaneHathaway
September 24th, 2016, 01:22 PM
Newbie here, air drying after clarifying shampoo and gelatin protein treatment (without xanthan or other gum because the odds of finding it in this rural area are small) left on for only 3 minutes as it's my first time and I'm not sure how my hair will respond.

The protein treatment rinsed out with no problems and was followed with a 30-minute SMT. This had no aloe vera gel (again, rural area, haven't found it here) but I added a bit of olive oil. The SMT seems to have rinsed out well.

It's too soon to be sure of beneficial results, but I'm delighted that I don't seem to have goofed this up in an epic way.

Wildcat Diva
September 24th, 2016, 01:53 PM
For getting my hands on hard to find stuff at good prices, Amazon prime is my best friend.

If you have a wal-mart, you get the gel where the sunscreen is, or the aloe juice where the nutritional supplements are.

JaneHathaway
September 25th, 2016, 06:38 PM
Thanks for suggesting suppliers for ingredients. I'm happy with yesterday's results, even without aloe, but anxious to add it to the mix in my next treatment. I'll definitely be doing these again.

Red.
September 25th, 2016, 07:40 PM
I just did a SMT and wanted to share the products I used in case it's helpful to anyone else. My results were great! Very very soft and shiny looking hair. I used Sprouts brand clear aloe Vera gel, Sprouts brand Moisture conditioner. Also a Sprouts brand 100 percent raw honey. The conditioner is really good, better than I expected. I think I'll start using it on its own as well.

Greenfire
September 26th, 2016, 10:10 PM
Does it have cones in it?

yes it does, it has dimethicone, but it mixed really well, and applied well to the hair, and my hair has been fantastic all week. I haven't even washed it out yet! I normally wake up with tangles galore even when I bun or braid, unless I wear a scarf too, but this week my hair has been extra silky, and the scent is still slightly in my hair even so many days later, so I guess at least some of it penetrated well. (I didn't take pics yet, but am washing tomorrow so will see what it does after)

I'll have to try it without cones another time, cause if this is what you guys call a fail, I think the win would be unbelievable.

Robot Ninja
September 27th, 2016, 04:02 PM
Okay, so I've never done one of these but now I need to because of reasons. So rather than look through a 100-page thread, I'm going to hope one of you helpful people will answer my noob questions for me.

Has anyone tried this with Tresemme Perfectly Undone? If it's been tried and failed, I might have to be the Hello Hydration guinea pig.
I can't find plain aloe gel anywhere, only the stuff with lidocaine in it. Can I just use honey? Should I use twice the honey? Is there something else that is readily available that can be substituted for aloe gel?
Can I add oils? Should I? If yes, should I go with coconut oil or olive oil?

littlestarface
September 27th, 2016, 04:07 PM
Okay, so I've never done one of these but now I need to because of reasons. So rather than look through a 100-page thread, I'm going to hope one of you helpful people will answer my noob questions for me.

Has anyone tried this with Tresemme Perfectly Undone? If it's been tried and failed, I might have to be the Hello Hydration guinea pig.
I can't find plain aloe gel anywhere, only the stuff with lidocaine in it. Can I just use honey? Should I use twice the honey? Is there something else that is readily available that can be substituted for aloe gel?
Can I add oils? Should I? If yes, should I go with coconut oil or olive oil?

I don't usually do smt I make my own conditioner and honey mix and perfectly undone works great with honey so no worries there. You can put some oil but not too much and if you do I recommend abit of coconut oil if you do olive make sure it's little bit as that is heavier on hair.

littlestarface
September 27th, 2016, 04:18 PM
yes it does, it has dimethicone, but it mixed really well, and applied well to the hair, and my hair has been fantastic all week. I haven't even washed it out yet! I normally wake up with tangles galore even when I bun or braid, unless I wear a scarf too, but this week my hair has been extra silky, and the scent is still slightly in my hair even so many days later, so I guess at least some of it penetrated well. (I didn't take pics yet, but am washing tomorrow so will see what it does after)

I'll have to try it without cones another time, cause if this is what you guys call a fail, I think the win would be unbelievable.

Man I wish I could use this cuz that smell sounds like i'd love it but I can't use cones T_T

miss_donya
September 30th, 2016, 10:20 AM
Liquid might make your mixture too runny and drippy, so I'd either use less of aloe juice than in the orginal recipe, or, maybe damped your hair with the juice, mix conditoner with honey and slather on your dampened hair. Maybe that would work.
Thats an interesting suggestion ! I never thought about it, I actually don’t mind it being too runny if it won’t affect the conditioner’s results.
also,the juice that I have contains some sweetners, would that have an effect ?

mizukitty
September 30th, 2016, 09:16 PM
Would glycerin be an okay substitute for honey? I don't really want to waste my honey :P They're both humectants soooo...

animetor7
September 30th, 2016, 11:23 PM
Would glycerin be an okay substitute for honey? I don't really want to waste my honey :P They're both humectants soooo...

The potential problem here is that glycerin is often used as a protein treatment and protein can cause the SMT mixture to fail. You can try it, but personally I'd stick with just aloe vera and conditioner rather than use glycerine. You could try adding an oil if you want more moisturizing power. I like adding coconut oil to deep conditioning treatments best, but YMMV. :)

hayheadsbird
October 2nd, 2016, 12:13 PM
This might have been answered already, but see the lumpy curdlingbthat happens sometimes? Is this a cosmetic problem, or is it an actual issue? Accidentally over heated inthe microwave, and it's seriously curdled, to the point there's clear liquid, and white thick fine cream cheese like crumbly bits 😝

Do I need to try again, or is this okay to use?

littlestarface
October 2nd, 2016, 12:15 PM
This might have been answered already, but see the lumpy curdlingbthat happens sometimes? Is this a cosmetic problem, or is it an actual issue? Accidentally over heated inthe microwave, and it's seriously curdled, to the point there's clear liquid, and white thick fine cream cheese like crumbly bits ��

Do I need to try again, or is this okay to use?

Eww try again, I wouldn't use that on my hair lol.

littlestarface
October 2nd, 2016, 12:26 PM
I wanna do a smt so I bought this aloe gel. I hope it really is pure organic. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WRN3TBU/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1NBW8Q1QNL1ZA

hayheadsbird
October 2nd, 2016, 12:50 PM
Eww try again, I wouldn't use that on my hair lol.
Yup! Attempt 2 with a diff confuse worked a whole lot better!

mizukitty
October 2nd, 2016, 11:05 PM
The potential problem here is that glycerin is often used as a protein treatment and protein can cause the SMT mixture to fail. You can try it, but personally I'd stick with just aloe vera and conditioner rather than use glycerine. You could try adding an oil if you want more moisturizing power. I like adding coconut oil to deep conditioning treatments best, but YMMV. :)

Very interested in how glycerin is used as a protein treatment! I've never heard of this at all. Can happily report that glycerin used in 1/8 part rather than 1/4 gave me a creamy, dreamy treatment though.

animetor7
October 2nd, 2016, 11:30 PM
This might have been answered already, but see the lumpy curdlingbthat happens sometimes? Is this a cosmetic problem, or is it an actual issue? Accidentally over heated inthe microwave, and it's seriously curdled, to the point there's clear liquid, and white thick fine cream cheese like crumbly bits 😝

Do I need to try again, or is this okay to use?

I've used a lumpy SMT before. It worked, it was just a pain to rinse out.

TheaLee
October 3rd, 2016, 02:23 PM
Just started this for the first time! Shower cap on and I look like a chef.

I did use less conditioner than it says to, more like 2 parts, or 50%. Will report back with results.

samanthaa
October 4th, 2016, 11:01 AM
I did an SMT with castor oil (castor oil, olive oil, avocado oil blend) last night.

Note to self: do not do an SMT with castor oil. I never wash with shampoo following an SMT, so this one left my hair super oily/waxy feeling. I could feel it as I was rinsing it out in the shower but stubbornly refused to even co-wash.

Maybe it will absorb over the next few days.

TheaLee
October 4th, 2016, 08:54 PM
Well, my hair always curls when it's wet, but after the SMT was the first time they had staying power!!! I'm super excited bc usually a brush through really pulls out most of the wurl, but they must have retained enough moisture to spring back this time. My hair doesn't feel super different today, but I know something worked and maybe my hair needs to drink some more before I see the shinies.

The only advice I could give is to make sure to rinse around your baby hairs/hairline. I missed a spot and it dried there lol. But it came out very easily with a moist cloth so it was fine.

Shepherdess
October 5th, 2016, 11:11 PM
Well, my hair always curls when it's wet, but after the SMT was the first time they had staying power!!! I'm super excited bc usually a brush through really pulls out most of the wurl, but they must have retained enough moisture to spring back this time. My hair doesn't feel super different today, but I know something worked and maybe my hair needs to drink some more before I see the shinies.

The only advice I could give is to make sure to rinse around your baby hairs/hairline. I missed a spot and it dried there lol. But it came out very easily with a moist cloth so it was fine.

I have had this same thing happen with my hair when giving it a lot more moisture in my routine. I wasn't sure why it felt shorter and would bounce back up so easily after combing or stretching, so I bet what you described must be part of the reason! I suppose that for curly hair, more moisture must make it healthier! :)

animetor7
October 5th, 2016, 11:23 PM
I did an SMT with castor oil (castor oil, olive oil, avocado oil blend) last night.

Note to self: do not do an SMT with castor oil. I never wash with shampoo following an SMT, so this one left my hair super oily/waxy feeling. I could feel it as I was rinsing it out in the shower but stubbornly refused to even co-wash.

Maybe it will absorb over the next few days.

Sometimes that works for me. If I overdo the serum I use my hair will feel awful and stringy when it dries, but it eventually all absorbs. As long as I wear my hair up, I don't mind. :)

samanthaa
October 6th, 2016, 01:57 PM
^ animetor7, yep, same! By the next morning, it was already starting to feel better. I was a bit doubtful that an oil as heavy/sticky/waxy as castor oil would absorb, but low and behold!

I finally ordered more cassia so I can get back into doing cassia SMTs. Those were my favorite.

gthlvrmx
October 8th, 2016, 09:44 PM
Hello SMT people! I am wondering, how can you use a SMT as a cleansing method? Do you just go at it as a simple CO wash except after the scrubbing you leave it in under the cap for a while?

animetor7
October 8th, 2016, 11:50 PM
Hello SMT people! I am wondering, how can you use a SMT as a cleansing method? Do you just go at it as a simple CO wash except after the scrubbing you leave it in under the cap for a while?

Yup, you definitely can use it that way, the exact method is discussed here: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128&page=3&p=66716#post66716

gthlvrmx
October 9th, 2016, 12:06 AM
Yup, you definitely can use it that way, the exact method is discussed here: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128&page=3&p=66716#post66716

Alright! Thank you!

Obsidian
October 10th, 2016, 10:15 AM
After a few failed tries, I finally found a SMT mix that works really well for me. The first few times, all it did was leave my hair limp and coated feeling. I'm using VO5 kiwi and lime conditioner, its cone and protein free, a tiny bit of aloe and a bit extra raw honey.

Its nice to finally find a deep conditioner mix that doesn't weigh my hair down but leaves it soft and tangle free.

x3leesa
October 12th, 2016, 12:30 PM
^ animetor7, yep, same! By the next morning, it was already starting to feel better. I was a bit doubtful that an oil as heavy/sticky/waxy as castor oil would absorb, but low and behold!

I finally ordered more cassia so I can get back into doing cassia SMTs. Those were my favorite.

What kind of mix do you use when you do a cassia SMT? I'm still learning about using henna and cassia :). When you use the cassia SMTA does it deep moisturize your hair but also dye it? Thanks!

x3leesa
October 12th, 2016, 12:31 PM
Oops just SMT not smta lol. Replying on my phone with auto correct /:

samanthaa
October 13th, 2016, 09:03 AM
What kind of mix do you use when you do a cassia SMT? I'm still learning about using henna and cassia :). When you use the cassia SMTA does it deep moisturize your hair but also dye it? Thanks!

Quoting myself here from a while back:


I've been experimenting with add-ins in my SMTs lately. I've added cassia before and been very happy with the results, but last night was absolutely something else! I don't know if my hair responded better to the conditioners I used this time or what, but I've never had hair this soft, ever! And the shine! Holy cow.

I used 1 part pre-mixed cassia, 2 parts SheaMoisture Raw Shea Butter Deep Treatment Masque, 1 part Swanson Premium Argan Oil Conditioner (or the Biotin Conditioner with Silica?; I can't remember which one I opened; I think Argan), 1 part raw white honey, 1 part aloe vera gel.

I wish I could capture the shine on camera. This picture does not do it justice at all:

http://i.imgur.com/j7Xvnta.jpg

I pre-mix my cassia (usually with chamomile tea) and freeze any extra in ice cube trays to make defrosting easier. Tuesday night I did another cassia SMT, this time with 2 parts cassia, 2 parts conditioner, 1 part agave nectar, and 1 part aloe vera gel. Since the cassia is thicker/rougher/dryer than conditioner, I did find that I probably could have used another tablespoon or more of conditioner. I think it'll stick with two parts cassia next time but up the conditioner to 3 or even the full 4 parts.

Cassia has a yellow dye molecule that won't show up on any but the lightest of hair colors (gray/light blonde). It may enhance the golden tones of blonde hair. But the dye molecule in cassia is only temporary, and any color change (unlike with henna) will only last for a couple of weeks. I don't see any color change when I use cassia on my hair because it's so dark. The benefits of cassia for me are shine and heaviness (temporary thickening). It's my favorite hair treatment, personally!

x3leesa
October 13th, 2016, 06:08 PM
Quoting myself here from a while back:



I pre-mix my cassia (usually with chamomile tea) and freeze any extra in ice cube trays to make defrosting easier. Tuesday night I did another cassia SMT, this time with 2 parts cassia, 2 parts conditioner, 1 part agave nectar, and 1 part aloe vera gel. Since the cassia is thicker/rougher/dryer than conditioner, I did find that I probably could have used another tablespoon or more of conditioner. I think it'll stick with two parts cassia next time but up the conditioner to 3 or even the full 4 parts.

Cassia has a yellow dye molecule that won't show up on any but the lightest of hair colors (gray/light blonde). It may enhance the golden tones of blonde hair. But the dye molecule in cassia is only temporary, and any color change (unlike with henna) will only last for a couple of weeks. I don't see any color change when I use cassia on my hair because it's so dark. The benefits of cassia for me are shine and heaviness (temporary thickening). It's my favorite hair treatment, personally!

Thanks for the info!!! :D

x3leesa
October 14th, 2016, 05:01 PM
Just did my first SMT yesterday (without cassia). Used V05 Extra Body, some Walmart honey (not like raw or organic or anything) and the Fruit of the Earth Aloe Vera (it wasn't gel because it was really watery like juice but the container didn't say juice so idk lol). My hair was so much softer and less overdosed on protein. Before joining LHC I had super fried ends (I'm sure hot tools and dye contributed as well) but I thought buying an "anti breaking" shampoo would help my hair. Didn't know it was full of protein and I wasn't following up with any LOC or deep conditioning treatments! I plan on continuing with SMT every week so long as my hair likes it :laugh:

gthlvrmx
October 14th, 2016, 07:19 PM
Just did my first SMT yesterday (without cassia). Used V05 Extra Body, some Walmart honey (not like raw or organic or anything) and the Fruit of the Earth Aloe Vera (it wasn't gel because it was really watery like juice but the container didn't say juice so idk lol). My hair was so much softer and less overdosed on protein. Before joining LHC I had super fried ends (I'm sure hot tools and dye contributed as well) but I thought buying an "anti breaking" shampoo would help my hair. Didn't know it was full of protein and I wasn't following up with any LOC or deep conditioning treatments! I plan on continuing with SMT every week so long as my hair likes it :laugh:

Is there a way you can get the aloe vera gel instead of the juice? Or the fresh plant? You could grow it at home and always have fresh aloe flesh, then blend it in a blender, then mix the blended fleshy pulpy stuff with your honey and conditioner.

x3leesa
October 14th, 2016, 08:12 PM
Is there a way you can get the aloe vera gel instead of the juice? Or the fresh plant? You could grow it at home and always have fresh aloe flesh, then blend it in a blender, then mix the blended fleshy pulpy stuff with your honey and conditioner.

I didn't see the gel anywhere! Well I only went to Walmart lol so it's not like I looked around extensively. I thought I remembered reading the actual plant sometimes yielding bad results from the first page of this thread? :hmm: Do you suppose the real plant or gel would yield even softer hair results?

samanthaa
October 21st, 2016, 10:50 AM
I did a very, very heavy 24-hour coconut oil soak on my length Wednesday night into yesterday, and then on top of that, last night applied a pretty straight-forward SMT (meaning no cassia or oil additions) of 3 parts SheaMoisture Superfruit Complex masque, 1 part Swanson Premium Argan Oil Conditioner, 1 part aloe vera gel, and 1 part maple syrup. And I am so IMPRESSED. The SMT got all of the oil out of my hair. My hair was also so ridiculously soft that I actually slept with it down because I didn't want to risk ruining the softness with bun or braid waves.

The shine was also incredible, which I'm attributing to the coconut oil soak. I'm starting to accept that coconut oil really does work for me.

gthlvrmx
October 21st, 2016, 02:32 PM
I didn't see the gel anywhere! Well I only went to Walmart lol so it's not like I looked around extensively. I thought I remembered reading the actual plant sometimes yielding bad results from the first page of this thread? :hmm: Do you suppose the real plant or gel would yield even softer hair results?

As long as it has the real aloe plant in it, it should work as a humectant (which means, draw in moisture to itself and into the hair). Just check the ingredients for the liquid and see if there's anything that might not be satisfactory like alcohols and other unwanted ingredients. I use the leaf straight from the plant (I have literally taken a leaf, cut it, and massaged the inside all over my hair for a quick treatment) and I get good results. Personally, I feel getting it from the real plant would give better results just because it hasn't been "watered down" or diluted by so many other ingredients in the gel bottles or liquid bottles.

Rebeccalaurenxx
October 21st, 2016, 06:23 PM
My hair loved the SMT I did this week. At first I was doing it wrong, wrong products and my hair has build up! But I clarified, SMT for an hour, and then did a AVC rinse and man my hair feels AMAZING. Practically tangle free for 3 days which is a feat for me as my hair tends to turn into velcro by day 2 or 3, its now day 3 and I am oiling my ends since I will be co-washing tomorrow, but I look forward to doing this again because my hair feels amazing.

x3leesa
October 24th, 2016, 03:22 PM
Good to know, thanks! :D

GRU
October 26th, 2016, 04:24 PM
I didn't see the gel anywhere! Well I only went to Walmart lol so it's not like I looked around extensively.

At Walmart, the FOTE AVG is located where the "specialty" hand lotions are. Not the regular Jergen's / Lubriderm / Curel types, but the oddball stuff like Corn Husker's and Bag Balm. The oddball stuff us usually in its own section of the lotion aisle, and often down low to the ground so it's harder to see.

samanthaa
October 30th, 2016, 07:58 AM
I did what most people recommend when you start getting tangly, uncooperative ends: I clarified (yes, I even bought a clarifying shampoo [Avalon Organics Clarifying Lemon]--is it bad I've forgotten how to use liquid shampoo after years of shampoo bars?) and followed up with a standard SMT.

I should have used my holy grail conditioner, but instead I used one of my meh conditioners in an attempt to use it up (Desert Essence Coconut Conditioner) and the results were not fabulous. My hair was rather tangly after rinsing out the SMT, and though it feels okay today (the next day) I know how good it *could* be and I wish I'd used the other conditioner. I guess I'll try the "clarify reset" again in January when I trim.

Long_hair_bear
November 5th, 2016, 05:54 PM
what does everyone do if they have extra SMT after? Can you refrigerate it?

JaneHathaway
November 5th, 2016, 08:31 PM
what does everyone do if they have extra SMT after? Can you refrigerate it?

I used some that I'd refrigerated for 4 weeks and it was fine. In fact, next time I plan to make a double batch and save the extra.

Wildcat Diva
November 5th, 2016, 09:14 PM
I did this tonight again... same good results with KCKT...

gthlvrmx
November 7th, 2016, 01:58 PM
what does everyone do if they have extra SMT after? Can you refrigerate it?

I try using it all up all in one use because I have noticed that when I leave the SMT in the cup, even a little, it starts growing mold. It's not the honey that grows the mold, I think it's the plant that grows the mold.

Rebeccalaurenxx
November 7th, 2016, 03:25 PM
what does everyone do if they have extra SMT after? Can you refrigerate it?

I would not imagine you would need to refrigerate, the honey I use does not seem to require to be stuck in the fridge after opening so I assume the mix itself would not require it.


I try using it all up all in one use because I have noticed that when I leave the SMT in the cup, even a little, it starts growing mold. It's not the honey that grows the mold, I think it's the plant that grows the mold.

Hm. I pre mix mine and put it inside a glass jar and leave it at room temperature and it seems fine. I made a batch like 2 months ago and its still great.
It may be because I use a literal aloe gel and not direct from plant gel? I dont know. How are you storing it? I make sure its air tight and sealed, my room is pretty cool most days... Hm.

I think if you use aloe made with preservatives youll probably be ok.

gthlvrmx
November 7th, 2016, 10:25 PM
I would not imagine you would need to refrigerate, the honey I use does not seem to require to be stuck in the fridge after opening so I assume the mix itself would not require it.



Hm. I pre mix mine and put it inside a glass jar and leave it at room temperature and it seems fine. I made a batch like 2 months ago and its still great.
It may be because I use a literal aloe gel and not direct from plant gel? I dont know. How are you storing it? I make sure its air tight and sealed, my room is pretty cool most days... Hm.

I think if you use aloe made with preservatives youll probably be ok.

Yes it's most likely starting to create mold/fungus because it has no other preservatives like the gel does. I think I might have just left it in the mug in the bathroom. Most likely that's why it grew mold.

ElisabethS
November 29th, 2016, 11:51 AM
i only heat it to liquefy it again after it turned solid - it's old honey.

ElisabethS
November 29th, 2016, 11:53 AM
shoot........i thought this would attach right after a post i wanted to reply to. anyways.....it was in regards to why people heat the honey.

Sarahlabyrinth
December 2nd, 2016, 01:34 PM
Would it be ok to add a good dollop of mayonnaise to my SMT? I have some old stuff in the fridge I need to use up.

vampyyri
December 2nd, 2016, 02:01 PM
Would it be ok to add a good dollop of mayonnaise to my SMT? I have some old stuff in the fridge I need to use up.

I don't see why not... that's actually a really good idea! Mayo on it's own is really nice, so in an SMT, hmm

Curious to know how it turns out if you try it :D

Rebeccalaurenxx
December 2nd, 2016, 02:14 PM
Would it be ok to add a good dollop of mayonnaise to my SMT? I have some old stuff in the fridge I need to use up.

I add oil to my SMT sometimes so I think adding little things would be ok. I mean I have never added mayo myself but. Just make sure you keep an eye on it, i dont like mayo because its prone to just going bad and just does not smell good to me haha. YMMV like we always say!

Sarahlabyrinth
December 2nd, 2016, 02:53 PM
I will try it, then and let you know how it goes. I sometimes add a teaspoon of oil to my SMTs too ! :)

gthlvrmx
December 3rd, 2016, 06:47 PM
I will try it, then and let you know how it goes. I sometimes add a teaspoon of oil to my SMTs too ! :)
How did it go? Mayonaise usually has egg in it, which has protein, which supposedly doesn't work well in SMT's but who knows, it might work when it's in Mayonaise.

Sarahlabyrinth
December 4th, 2016, 03:01 AM
I tried it today in my SMT (one part) and also added about a teaspoon of almond oil. It worked wonderfully, made my hair so soft and silky and happy. I will keep it in my repertoire. I couldn't get a decent outside photo of it as it was windy here today (as always) but I did get a screenshot:

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/6fdbf066-38e2-4b25-a6a0-f4b57efb7a4b.png

lithostoic
December 4th, 2016, 06:24 AM
Will do this soon, after my microtrim. It's easier to see what needs to be trimmed when it's dry lol.

Lize
December 11th, 2016, 08:08 AM
Ten years since joining LHC and I am just trying to do an SMT for the first time. My hair has been terribly dry and static all winter so I hope this will give it some moisture. :)

Rebeccalaurenxx
December 12th, 2016, 05:24 PM
I tried it today in my SMT (one part) and also added about a teaspoon of almond oil. It worked wonderfully, made my hair so soft and silky and happy. I will keep it in my repertoire. I couldn't get a decent outside photo of it as it was windy here today (as always) but I did get a screenshot:

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/6fdbf066-38e2-4b25-a6a0-f4b57efb7a4b.png

It actually shocks me how much better SMT works with oil! I added olive oil to mine and used it as the second conditioner to my CWC and my hair has NEVER felt so nice. Went super light on the oils to seal and it was way better than using SMT as an actual deep treatment. Ohhhh boy. LOL. This might get expensive...

samanthaa
December 15th, 2016, 10:51 AM
Dang, Sarahlabyrinth, beautiful hair!

^ Agreed with the comments about adding oil to an SMT. I love adding coconut oil personally! My hair is always so soft and shiny.

Rebeccalaurenxx
December 15th, 2016, 02:12 PM
My hair actually prefers an SMT as a conditioner, and not a long term deep treatment. Which is funny.
I have suddenly found white "flakes" and residue in my hair and I think its from the SMT... aloe maybe? It never gave me problems before but suddenly I see them and usually pick them out of my ends.

Decoy24601
December 16th, 2016, 12:53 PM
I have a modified SMT in my hair right now :). I used my Mane N Tail conditioner, a little bit of my old LiveClean Hydrating conditioner, no aloe, honey, 1tsp glycerine, 1tsp each of jojoba and argan oil. My hair felt amazing while I was applying it, so I'm hopeful this will be nice!

gthlvrmx
December 16th, 2016, 10:54 PM
I have clarified my hair but it doesn't feel as dry as it used to when I would clarify after doing a SMT on it. Now to use regular shampoo and conditioner and see what happens with random SMT's here and there as needed. I feel like some doctor-scientist.

PixieP
December 17th, 2016, 02:15 PM
Schwarzkopf Bonacure Repair Rescue Deep treatment does NOT work for smt :rant: It's a protein treatment that my hair usually loves. This was my first time trying it in an SMT and this is how my hair looks after it has dried:

http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t503/misherusedai/06476288-9C3C-4BD9-843F-0D5C11BCBD70_zpsoybl3otq.jpg

And it has been rinsed very thoroughly! First I rinsed out my SMT, then I did an ACV rinse, and then I had conditioner in and rinsed so it shouldn't be any residue >:( It's a good thing I am planning to do my roots tomorrow so I already had planned to wash my hair then too. Otherwise I'd be really peeved now.

DawnTR
December 18th, 2016, 04:57 PM
Did this once without the aloe because I did it right after reading the thread about the AVG not actually containing much aloe. It was okay, but not amazing. I thought this time I would add the AVG and just see the difference. But I guess I was a bit out of it and didn't rinse my hair first and put it on dry hair! oops. It is on now, so I will see how it turns out in an hour...

I left it almost 1 1/2 hours and rinsed it out. Turned out well, feels good and looks good! Next time will definitely make sure my hair is wet or damp first though.

Wildcat Diva
December 18th, 2016, 07:15 PM
PixieP! OMG! Fricking clumps/curds. So been there.

I used the BLENDER with mine tonight.

Aloe Vera juice, honey, KCKT, glycerin, avacado oil.

It foamed up pretty good and got real creamy. Nice texture. I filled up the entire KCKT 8 oz bottle and then some was leftover too. I was using the bottle as an applicator of sorts. So I used about 6 oz total on my hair now, and I am about to rinse it out. There may be half a bottle left and I may put this on husband or kid's hair tomorrow. I'll put it in the fridge.

Rebeccalaurenxx
December 19th, 2016, 02:35 PM
Schwarzkopf Bonacure Repair Rescue Deep treatment does NOT work for smt :rant: It's a protein treatment that my hair usually loves. This was my first time trying it in an SMT and this is how my hair looks after it has dried:

http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t503/misherusedai/06476288-9C3C-4BD9-843F-0D5C11BCBD70_zpsoybl3otq.jpg

And it has been rinsed very thoroughly! First I rinsed out my SMT, then I did an ACV rinse, and then I had conditioner in and rinsed so it shouldn't be any residue >:( It's a good thing I am planning to do my roots tomorrow so I already had planned to wash my hair then too. Otherwise I'd be really peeved now.

I think its the aloe. I get the same results sometimes and I think its the aloe, I cant wait to run out of my SMT and remake with just condish + honey and oil. No aloe.
I think it will be better.

samanthaa
January 2nd, 2017, 10:24 AM
I clarified yesterday to kick off the new year and my hair is soooooo dry today. I might have to SMT tomorrow...even though I just SMT'd last Thursday! My ends were so tangled that I actually ended up braiding my hair, rinsing the tassel in the sink, and then conditioning it by itself. It feels much better now!

Wildcat Diva
January 2nd, 2017, 11:04 AM
I think I will blend up a big batch of SMT to be used throughout the week. My blend is very creamy but not super thick. I wet my hair and then add about 6 or so ounces of the blend. Let it sit, then finger detangle (easy at this point with the blend), then really rinse well. Me and eldest and husband could really use this treatment at least once a week.)

Yay moisturized ends!
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j386/janineevans/19EF530E-5510-4F6C-A8DB-904AF0EB34CE_zpsv96nmfrc.png

samanthaa
January 3rd, 2017, 07:29 AM
Your hair is so pretty, Wildcat Diva! The contrast is so striking of your dark hair against that white shirt.

Anshul585
January 3rd, 2017, 11:41 PM
Thanks SMT and Anje for sharing :)

I use this treatment with conditioner, lemon juice and coconut oil. Its good for me.

Rebeccalaurenxx
January 5th, 2017, 05:05 PM
Remade some SMT with no aloe. Added EVOO instead. I hope it doesn't leave curds again. I mixed really really well.

samanthaa
January 6th, 2017, 02:58 PM
Rebeccalaurenxx, I only get curds when I use a conditioner with protein. Does your conditioner have protein?

cailinbee
January 12th, 2017, 08:03 PM
Remade some SMT with no aloe. Added EVOO instead. I hope it doesn't leave curds again. I mixed really really well.

I just tried a pseudo-SMT with olive oil in place of Aloe. The conditioner was Trader Joe's tea tree -- my head felt very "minty," hehe. Worth it -- oh-my-gosh is my hair soft and gorgeous today. How did yours turn out?

Rebeccalaurenxx
January 12th, 2017, 08:34 PM
I just tried a pseudo-SMT with olive oil in place of Aloe. The conditioner was Trader Joe's tea tree -- my head felt very "minty," hehe. Worth it -- oh-my-gosh is my hair soft and gorgeous today. How did yours turn out?

I still havent used it yet! Im trying to use up all my old SMT before i start using new stuff.
should be able to use it in a few more washes.

Rebeccalaurenxx
January 12th, 2017, 09:09 PM
Rebeccalaurenxx, I only get curds when I use a conditioner with protein. Does your conditioner have protein?

Nope, im protein sensitive so i avoid them in my conditioners.

dvep
January 12th, 2017, 10:15 PM
When you guys sub oil for the AVG, do you use the same proportion as in the original recipe? Or are you beyond using the original proportions at this point?

Rebeccalaurenxx
January 12th, 2017, 10:19 PM
When you guys sub oil for the AVG, do you use the same proportion as in the original recipe? Or are you beyond using the original proportions at this point?

I use the same proportions, usually. so if i used 3 cups condish, 1 cup honey and 1 cup aloe, i now use 3 cups conditioner, 1 cup honey and 1 cup oil.

i make big batches.. heh

Wildcat Diva
January 14th, 2017, 10:37 PM
I eyeball it. Used molasses tonight. Boy is that messy. If only it would stain my hair darker he heh. But it won't.

nekosan
January 14th, 2017, 11:36 PM
Tried a SMT for the first time today, and my hair seems exactly the same as after a normal wash and condition. I guess my normal lazy routine is good enough for my hair. *shrug*

Wildcat Diva
January 15th, 2017, 07:20 AM
Yep. Maybe at this moment, your hair needs no moisture added. For me, I'm not able to have my hair stay balanced for any length of time.

However the level of drama in the results for me turn out with how much moisture was needed.

Seija
January 17th, 2017, 09:15 AM
I used SMT for the first time last week after my first henna and indigo 2 step (Did not realize how drying it was going to be - I also clarified for the first time before I put the henna on, so it could be a mixture of those things). I used SMT directly after henna& indigo, and then again the next day since my hair was still dry. The LOC method is what really helped my hair feel even more moisturized than it was prior to hennindigo. I won't shampoo without it now. I'm definitely going to give SMT another go when there's no dye involved just to see

Lavendersugar
January 17th, 2017, 11:07 AM
I used SMT for the first time last week after my first henna and indigo 2 step (Did not realize how drying it was going to be - I also clarified for the first time before I put the henna on, so it could be a mixture of those things). I used SMT directly after henna& indigo, and then again the next day since my hair was still dry. The LOC method is what really helped my hair feel even more moisturized than it was prior to hennindigo. I won't shampoo without it now. I'm definitely going to give SMT another go when there's no dye involved just to see

Henna packs into the hair and takes a few days to calm down. Doing any treatment during that time will not be effective. Also, what was your mix? I can not use honey on my hair. It will make my hair dry. My mix is aloe with conditioner warmed.

Seija
January 17th, 2017, 11:44 AM
Henna packs into the hair and takes a few days to calm down. Doing any treatment during that time will not be effective. Also, what was your mix? I can not use honey on my hair. It will make my hair dry. My mix is aloe with conditioner warmed.
I used 4 tbsp conditioner, 1 tbsp honey and 1 tbsp aloe.. I do have pretty dry hair to begin with, so maybe I'll skip on the honey next time and see if that's the problem

samanthaa
January 18th, 2017, 07:42 AM
Doubled my usual amount of SMT. 1/2 cup conditioner, 2 T aloe vera, 2 T maple syrup, 2 T coconut oil.

I've always had really good results using coconut oil as an equal amount to the aloe vera and maple syrup, but I think doubling it completely overwhelmed my hair. It's not super greasy, but it's definitely not not greasy today. My whole head has that "damp" look. Next time I will use 1 T coconut oil to 2 T each aloe vera and maple syrup. Luckily coconut oil absorbs well into my hair, so it'll get better over the next couple of days. Not worried about it.

Ophidian
January 18th, 2017, 09:59 PM
Clarified and did an SMT with 4 conditioner:1 honey:1 fresh aloe juice. My hair got halfway dry and I could already tell something was wrong. I think Barbie hair is the best way to describe the texture. Plastic-y, dry, frizzy, and lank. I am thinking this sounds like protein overload? I already know that my hair likes honey. Clarified again, left a protein-free conditioner on as long as I could, and did a final rinse with very dilute ACV.

Lessons learned: no protein for SMT's, and don't test drive new conditioners this way. On the plus side I think I really like the protein-free conditioner I ended up using for damage control (Desert Essence Coconut)

Sw33th34rt4my
January 20th, 2017, 09:54 AM
Did my first SMT today because my hair was seeming very dry. 4 parts A3MM (my usual deep conditioner), 1 part honey, 1 part aloe and a drizzle of olive oil. My hair is not happy. My ends for dry crunchy now and my hair is not as soft as it was before. I wonder what made it do that?

Arctic
January 20th, 2017, 10:05 AM
Did my first SMT today because my hair was seeming very dry. 4 parts A3MM (my usual deep conditioner), 1 part honey, 1 part aloe and a drizzle of olive oil. My hair is not happy. My ends for dry crunchy now and my hair is not as soft as it was before. I wonder what made it do that?

Did you clarify before?

If yes, your hair might not like one (or more) of the ingredients. Your hair might prefere different conditioner, too.

In any case, too bad your first experience with SMT was not success, but I hope you'll find a way to make it work!

Sw33th34rt4my
January 20th, 2017, 10:15 AM
Did you clarify before?

If yes, your hair might not like one (or more) of the ingredients. Your hair might prefere different conditioner, too.

In any case, too bad your first experience with SMT was not success, but I hope you'll find a way to make it work!

Yes, I did clarify first. I wonder if it was the honey or aloe that my hair didn't like?

vampyyri
January 20th, 2017, 10:44 AM
Yes, I did clarify first. I wonder if it was the honey or aloe that my hair didn't like?

Honey does that to my hair, try leaving out the honey next time around.

Arctic
January 20th, 2017, 10:50 AM
My hair loves honey, but I often change it to syrup because I need to use my syrup bottle up ha ha, and the effect is exactly as moisturising.

Sw33th34rt4my
January 20th, 2017, 11:00 AM
Thanks! I'll try it again next week!

Rebeccalaurenxx
January 20th, 2017, 01:18 PM
Im doing an indigo treatment on my hair right now so I think I will SMT afterward with my new mix since indigo makes my hair SUPER dry.

mayfaring
January 24th, 2017, 01:12 AM
I did my first SMT last weekend and my hair felt amazingly soft for a few days. My mixture produced white clumps that only showed up after I rinsed. I had to CWC again afterwards. It was my mistake for using Hello Hydration conditioner. I'm planning to try again this week with Aussie 3MM instead and see if it's better. They have the same silicone ingredient, but maybe the ratio will work better. I used about 3 parts conditioner, 1 part aloe, 1 part honey, and 1 part coconut oil. I plan to keep trying because the improvement in hair texture was fantastic. Fingers crossed.

Rebeccalaurenxx
January 24th, 2017, 01:18 AM
I did my first SMT last weekend and my hair felt amazingly soft for a few days. My mixture produced white clumps that only showed up after I rinsed. I had to CWC again afterwards. It was my mistake for using Hello Hydration conditioner. I'm planning to try again this week with Aussie 3MM instead and see if it's better. They have the same silicone ingredient, but maybe the ratio will work better. I used about 3 parts conditioner, 1 part aloe, 1 part honey, and 1 part coconut oil. I plan to keep trying because the improvement in hair texture was fantastic. Fingers crossed.

Its best to not use silicones at all.
But its the aloe, i got clumps too before and it stopped when i stopped putting aloe in it.

mayfaring
January 24th, 2017, 12:04 PM
Its best to not use silicones at all.
But its the aloe, i got clumps too before and it stopped when i stopped putting aloe in it.

Thank you for the advice. I'll pick up a cone free conditioner off the list and try that, as well as trying without the aloe.

school of fish
January 24th, 2017, 04:36 PM
Thank you for the advice. I'll pick up a cone free conditioner off the list and try that, as well as trying without the aloe.

Yep, seconding that aloe is likely the wildcard there on the lumps ;) For the record I've had success with silicones (light ones) in my SMT, but it's likely another one of those YMMV things - go for what feels right to you :)

Wildcat Diva
January 25th, 2017, 08:31 AM
Its best to not use silicones at all.
But its the aloe, i got clumps too before and it stopped when i stopped putting aloe in it.

A tip is that Aloe juice seems to work better for me. It seems the store bought cheap aloe gel I used to use is fake crap.

Rebeccalaurenxx
January 25th, 2017, 03:22 PM
A tip is that Aloe juice seems to work better for me. It seems the store bought cheap aloe gel I used to use is fake crap.

Ill give that a try if i ever end up making more batches.

vampyyri
February 28th, 2017, 08:48 AM
https://youtu.be/ShTcArMe7Bc?t=5m43s

Gosh do I feel super dumb now for suggesting torrin to try an SMT. I was the only one who suggested it, so it's kind of hard to not take this as a jab... (starts at 5:43)

Oh well. I'll keep doing them regardless. Perhaps it's something I shouldn't have suggested but instead done on my own youtube channel.

samanthaa
February 28th, 2017, 09:13 AM
^ I wouldn't take it as a jab. Enough people have done this treatment to know that honey DOES work, so her quick write-off of it comes seemingly from a place of ignorance (I'm not bashing her in any way by stating this; I don't watch her, so I'm not really familiar with her content/thoughts/beliefs, I'm just reiterating the fact that she probably wrote this treatment off immediately after seeing that it contained honey *the horror*).

And then she bashes "all natural" and basically calls the SMT "not scientific." There's plenty behind of science behind the way that humectants and moisture work with the hair (I wonder what she thinks of commercial products that contain honey and aloe). Also: you use whatever conditioner you want. It certainly does not have to be an "all-natural" conditioner. It doesn't have to be "chemical-free" ("I do not believe all chemicals are inherently evil," she says, suggesting that only "store-bought" products work...because "we live in 2017 and science and technology has come a long way." LOL yeah, okay, because commercialism and corporate greed also aren't things in 2017).

You literally take whatever conditioner you already enjoy and add a couple more ingredients to it to up its moisture absorption and retention. No one is suggesting she go pluck some leaves off a tree, grind it up with a mortar and pestle, and use that as a treatment.

I'm sorry. Her holier-than-thou attitude really bothered me here.

vampyyri
February 28th, 2017, 09:19 AM
^ I wouldn't take it as a jab. Enough people have done this treatment to know that honey DOES work, so her quick write-off of it comes seemingly from a place of ignorance (I'm not bashing her in any way by stating this; I don't watch her, so I'm not really familiar with her content/thoughts/beliefs, I'm just reiterating the fact that she probably wrote this treatment off immediately after seeing that it contained honey *the horror*).

And then she bashes "all natural" and basically calls the SMT "not scientific." There's plenty behind of science behind the way that humectants and moisture work with the hair (I wonder what she thinks of commercial products that contain honey and aloe). Also: you use whatever conditioner you want. It certainly does not have to be an "all-natural" conditioner. It doesn't have to be "chemical-free" ("I do not believe all chemicals are inherently evil," she says, suggesting that only "store-bought" products work...because "we live in 2017 and science and technology has come a long way." LOL yeah, okay, because commercialism and corporate greed also aren't things in 2017).

You literally take whatever conditioner you already enjoy and add a couple more ingredients to it to up its moisture absorption and retention. No one is suggesting she go pluck some leaves off a tree, grind it up with a mortar and pestle, and use that as a treatment.

I'm sorry. Her holier-than-thou attitude really bothered me here.

That's why I feel the jab in the first place for suggesting it... a simple private message could have sufficed, but 10 minutes of ranting directed towards me for suggesting it is a little uncalled for.

I agree with the rest of what you said as well. It's probably coming from a place of ignorance, and with everything in this world, it's a YMMV situation for if it works or not... but to shut down an idea without giving it a chance is off-putting.

littlestarface
February 28th, 2017, 09:38 AM
I don't see it as a jab just her explaining why she wont try it and probably never wants to be asked to try it again. She is entitled to her opinion and if she thinks its crap then more power to her to make a video explaining why, I mean it is her channel and she makes any vids she wants.

I do wonder how her hot conditioner experiment went?

Ophidian
February 28th, 2017, 05:39 PM
Did my first SMT today because my hair was seeming very dry. 4 parts A3MM (my usual deep conditioner), 1 part honey, 1 part aloe and a drizzle of olive oil. My hair is not happy. My ends for dry crunchy now and my hair is not as soft as it was before. I wonder what made it do that?

Lots of things that could cause this probably (needing to clarify and reaction to honey already mentioned) but I also wanted to say that I do not have good results doing SMT's with conditioners that contain protein (not sure if A3MM does or not?). Makes my hair feel stiff, snappy, and rough. A little extra moisture helps it get back back to normal though.

Hailwidis
March 1st, 2017, 05:06 AM
^ I wouldn't take it as a jab. Enough people have done this treatment to know that honey DOES work, so her quick write-off of it comes seemingly from a place of ignorance (I'm not bashing her in any way by stating this; I don't watch her, so I'm not really familiar with her content/thoughts/beliefs, I'm just reiterating the fact that she probably wrote this treatment off immediately after seeing that it contained honey *the horror*).

And then she bashes "all natural" and basically calls the SMT "not scientific." There's plenty behind of science behind the way that humectants and moisture work with the hair (I wonder what she thinks of commercial products that contain honey and aloe). Also: you use whatever conditioner you want. It certainly does not have to be an "all-natural" conditioner. It doesn't have to be "chemical-free" ("I do not believe all chemicals are inherently evil," she says, suggesting that only "store-bought" products work...because "we live in 2017 and science and technology has come a long way." LOL yeah, okay, because commercialism and corporate greed also aren't things in 2017).

You literally take whatever conditioner you already enjoy and add a couple more ingredients to it to up its moisture absorption and retention. No one is suggesting she go pluck some leaves off a tree, grind it up with a mortar and pestle, and use that as a treatment.

I'm sorry. Her holier-than-thou attitude really bothered me here.

I couldn't have said it better.

My first thought was: why does it have to be science vs nature? A combination of chemical and natural products can be doubly effective, and that's exactly what the SMT is: conditioner enhanced with a few natural ingredients. It's not like haircare is an either/or situation...

And I disagree with her stance. Modern/chemical-based cosmetics and cleaning products cannot generally be held as superior to old-fashioned/natural ones, and vice-versa. There's good and bad in both. There's nothing wrong with picking the best of each and determining what works best for you.

Let it slide vampyyri, her loss.

Ligeia Noire
March 2nd, 2017, 08:29 PM
Vampyrii a lot of people asked her to try that in the past when she tried the mayo remember? I was one of those, I actually thought it was a bit of ignorance on her part the explanation but then someone told her why it uses honey and aloe and she agreed and did an addendum, I love her channel, it brought me here and I do not think she was directing the comment at you but she needed to explain why she was not trying it because it is a very popular and highly demanded treatment, I have seen that being mentioned on the comment section of her videos a lot, I think that was why she felt the need to be thorough. Of course, it does not take away the ignorance about it which to me was the issue here, the success of the smt formula depends highly on the components and not so much on the heating process, like she thought because I myself only heat the honey, not the whole thing. She did not want to try it because she is not even aware of the properties of the honey and aloe, which is fine, you do not have to know these things.
Anyway, I am sure she meant no harm, if you follow her channel you know her persona, she is very straightforward but also a very sweet person and she has all the rights to prefer store bought products that are specifically made for that purpose too but as we all agree we should not dismiss something based on a wrong assumption, that was the problem i think. As you guys probably know I am in the middle I try all natural and also all kinky store stuff and some natural stuff sucks and some store stuff is awesome. Not all natural stuff is a holy grail and not all commercialized formulas are evil. An open mind and cautious approach is the key.

truepeacenik
March 3rd, 2017, 01:02 AM
You all,know that Torrin is a member here, nu?

Katia_k
March 5th, 2017, 04:02 PM
Looking for general ideas here, I'm using the generic version of the Biolage Conditioning Balm. I really liked the smell when I first bought it, and now feel really over-perfumed and gross-smelling when I use it. But it's freaking awesome in my SMT. I was going to try to use oils to help make the smell less chemical, but was afraid I'd end up with something super nasty. Has anyone paired oils with this conditioner and not made something stinky? Or should I just accept the smell for the crazy soft hair it gives me and shake it off.

(Seriously this stuff has my hair feeling better than it has in weeks I love this treatment!)

school of fish
March 5th, 2017, 06:04 PM
Looking for general ideas here, I'm using the generic version of the Biolage Conditioning Balm. I really liked the smell when I first bought it, and now feel really over-perfumed and gross-smelling when I use it. But it's freaking awesome in my SMT. I was going to try to use oils to help make the smell less chemical, but was afraid I'd end up with something super nasty. Has anyone paired oils with this conditioner and not made something stinky? Or should I just accept the smell for the crazy soft hair it gives me and shake it off.

(Seriously this stuff has my hair feeling better than it has in weeks I love this treatment!)

Perhaps try cutting it with another conditioner? I have an intolerably perfumed conditioner I'm using up in my weekly SMTs - I'm actually mixing it at a ratio of 1 part to 7 parts with my regular conditioner, and the scent is still overpowering once my hair's dry and until the next shampoo, *that's* how scented it is! :p

Maybe you wouldn't have to cut it as drastically as I do mine - 50/50 maybe? Hopefully still enough to reap the benefits but diluted enough to tamp down the overbearing scent? Just a thought :)

marvel-lover
March 18th, 2017, 10:32 AM
I'm thinking about trying this today; the problem is, I don't want to actually wash my hair until tomorrow because I have an in-service for work that requires me to get into the chlorinated water. I'm assuming doing this today won't make it damaging for me to be able to wash my hair tomorrow?

likelikepenny
March 18th, 2017, 02:30 PM
I'm thinking about trying this today; the problem is, I don't want to actually wash my hair until tomorrow because I have an in-service for work that requires me to get into the chlorinated water. I'm assuming doing this today won't make it damaging for me to be able to wash my hair tomorrow?

I don't think so, seeing as this is a moisture treatment. Kinda like cwc but more spread out.

pandabarrier
March 26th, 2017, 07:42 AM
I did a SMT yesterday, that I haven't done in a while, with Shea Moisture Deep Treatment Masque, fresh aloe vera and honey. I bought a huge aloe vera leaf at the grocery and got carried away while extracting the gel, so I ended up using 2 parts of aloe instead of 1.
Left it for 1 hour, rinsed out, followed with ACV rinse. The hair is soft!

SplitMends
March 28th, 2017, 02:59 PM
This sounds great - plan to try this weekend to help post-henna dry hair!

samanthaa
April 12th, 2017, 09:19 AM
Oh gosh I can't even remember the last time I did an SMT. It's been a while!

While I was in CT this weekend, I was having trouble with my hair feeling gunky (perhaps the water is softer at my parents' house?) after my wash with a shampoo bar, and I desperately took my dad's SLS dandruff shampoo to the length. Why do shampoos have dimethicone? WHY?

So last night I clarified just the ends and followed up with an SMT, but I think I forgot what my magical SMT ratio was because, while I've added coconut oil successfully in the past, this time it didn't wash out well at all. My hair is still super oily. 4 parts conditioner, 2 parts aloe vera gel, 1 part maple syrup, 1 part coconut oil.

Oh well. I will wear my hair up for the next couple of days and the coconut oil will hopefully soak in nicely. It does feel soft and tangle-free.

ragdoll193
April 12th, 2017, 05:58 PM
I just got back from the store getting the aloe for this. I hope it helps my hair that I am fairly certain the hairdresser fried. My first time going to her was lovely, but now my hair is choppy when it's straight and it's so so dry :(

Suze
April 17th, 2017, 04:00 AM
I am trying my first SMT tonight, so exiting. The only thing is.... the list of conditioners that seem to work best are not really available over here. I can buy the Aussie one here and the one from The Body Shop but conditioners from Elvive, Andrelon, Gliss Kur (that I hormally use aren't on the list), so I think I should just buy the Aussie one to be safe and then try others later. And can I just use any honey?

Aredhel
April 17th, 2017, 07:22 AM
I am trying my first SMT tonight, so exiting. The only thing is.... the list of conditioners that seem to work best are not really available over here. I can buy the Aussie one here and the one from The Body Shop but conditioners from Elvive, Andrelon, Gliss Kur (that I hormally use aren't on the list), so I think I should just buy the Aussie one to be safe and then try others later. And can I just use any honey?

YMMV for all the conditioners listed anyway; I think the common denominator is that these conditioners are cone-free and protein-free. The concensus seems to be that when people try an SMT with a coney or protein loaded conditioner, it yields undesirable results or the mixture has a weird consistency. As long as you use one without cones and minimal protein, you should be good. The organic conditioner I use isn't on this list either, but it works well. :)

I don't know about the honey personally, but I used an organic raw honey (from DH's uncle's bee farm) with great results. I noticed "bear-jar honey" on the list of good ingredients though, and they're a pretty commercial brand. :)

rouxlala
April 17th, 2017, 10:46 AM
Has anyone tried this on henna hair? Looking for treatments that don't strip the henna (seems like my oilings were doing this).

nekosan
April 17th, 2017, 10:56 AM
I've tried this once on my hennaed hair, and it didn't seem to do much. (Didn't strip the henna at all - there was no bleeding whatsoever - but it also didn't seem to make my hair softer/smoother/better either.) I figure this just means my normal routine works well for me!

Suze
April 17th, 2017, 12:28 PM
YMMV for all the conditioners listed anyway; I think the common denominator is that these conditioners are cone-free and protein-free. The concensus seems to be that when people try an SMT with a coney or protein loaded conditioner, it yields undesirable results or the mixture has a weird consistency. As long as you use one without cones and minimal protein, you should be good. The organic conditioner I use isn't on this list either, but it works well. :)

I don't know about the honey personally, but I used an organic raw honey (from DH's uncle's bee farm) with great results. I noticed "bear-jar honey" on the list of good ingredients though, and they're a pretty commercial brand. :)

Thank you so much. I bought the Aussie 3 Minute Miracle for now but will try with other conditioners aswell. I used acacia honey but I will try the raw organic honey as well. Thanks.

rouxlala
April 17th, 2017, 12:36 PM
I've tried this once on my hennaed hair, and it didn't seem to do much. (Didn't strip the henna at all - there was no bleeding whatsoever - but it also didn't seem to make my hair softer/smoother/better either.) I figure this just means my normal routine works well for me!

We don't have the same hair types, but I'm curious what your routine is.

Aredhel
April 17th, 2017, 12:41 PM
Thank you so much. I bought the Aussie 3 Minute Miracle for now but will try with other conditioners aswell. I used acacia honey but I will try the raw organic honey as well. Thanks.

Best way to figure out what works for you is to experiment! Let us know how it went! :)

nekosan
April 17th, 2017, 04:39 PM
We don't have the same hair types, but I'm curious what your routine is.

Pretty simple, i think?

CWC every other day:
* Apply conditioner from the elbows down and let that soak while i shower.
* Shampoo scalp, letting suds drip down the ends.
* Apply conditioner from elbows down, comb conditioner through hair, rinse.

Hair up in various buns during the day.
Sleep with hair loosely braided, covered in silk sleeping cap.

Henna roots when they bother me (every 3-8 weeks).

I've been experimening with applying the NightBlooming Pancea balm on the ends of my hair on the night before wash day.
I also have a mister bottle with water and a squirt of conditioner, that i can use if my hair is being unruly in the evening. (Also, sometimes i get lazy about washing on the weekends and it gets a bit tangly.)

Suze
April 18th, 2017, 03:25 AM
Best way to figure out what works for you is to experiment! Let us know how it went! :)

It worked great, it smelled awesome too. I left it in for 1,5 hours. My hair is a bit softer and even smoother but also slippery and I already have very slippery hair. I still like it and will use this again next time. Also, it felt really nice to pamper myself.

Suze
April 18th, 2017, 03:28 AM
Has anyone tried this on henna hair? Looking for treatments that don't strip the henna (seems like my oilings were doing this).

Couldn't you add henna to the mix and make it a SMT-hennagloss?

rouxlala
April 18th, 2017, 07:42 AM
Couldn't you add henna to the mix and make it a SMT-hennagloss?

Good question! I haven't done a henna gloss, yet. I'd be curious to know.

samanthaa
April 18th, 2017, 07:43 AM
Has anyone tried this on henna hair? Looking for treatments that don't strip the henna (seems like my oilings were doing this).

It will not strip BAQ henna. Very little strips henna. I wish oilings would strip mine lol

rouxlala
April 18th, 2017, 07:43 AM
Pretty simple, i think?

CWC every other day:
* Apply conditioner from the elbows down and let that soak while i shower.
* Shampoo scalp, letting suds drip down the ends.
* Apply conditioner from elbows down, comb conditioner through hair, rinse.

Hair up in various buns during the day.
Sleep with hair loosely braided, covered in silk sleeping cap.

Henna roots when they bother me (every 3-8 weeks).

I've been experimening with applying the NightBlooming Pancea balm on the ends of my hair on the night before wash day.
I also have a mister bottle with water and a squirt of conditioner, that i can use if my hair is being unruly in the evening. (Also, sometimes i get lazy about washing on the weekends and it gets a bit tangly.)

Thank you! I'm always super curious to know others' routines so I can get tips to develop my own. What is the purpose of sleeping in a cap? I keep hearing about this...

Aredhel
April 18th, 2017, 07:58 AM
It worked great, it smelled awesome too. I left it in for 1,5 hours. My hair is a bit softer and even smoother but also slippery and I already have very slippery hair. I still like it and will use this again next time. Also, it felt really nice to pamper myself.

Glad to hear it worked for you! :) Did you end up using organic honey? I'm too lazy to do it too frequently (apparently mixing 3 ingredients is a lot of work... lol), but the results are worth it.

nekosan
April 18th, 2017, 12:08 PM
Thank you! I'm always super curious to know others' routines so I can get tips to develop my own. What is the purpose of sleeping in a cap? I keep hearing about this...

Keeps the hair from getting tangled. It's pretty impressive, actually - when i take off the nightcap, my braids look just like when i made them. Without a nightcap, they've all fluffy and have bits of hair sticking out of them everywhere. Less friction on hair should mean less wear and tear and less breakage.

Many people sleep on a silk pillowcase for the same result. I started sleeping on an old towel on my pillowcase, changed nightly, for acne control, so the sleep-cap works better for me.

school of fish
April 18th, 2017, 02:01 PM
Has anyone tried this on henna hair? Looking for treatments that don't strip the henna (seems like my oilings were doing this).


Couldn't you add henna to the mix and make it a SMT-hennagloss?


Good question! I haven't done a henna gloss, yet. I'd be curious to know.

I've been SMTing my henna hair every week or two for a couple years now and no colour stripping :) Every week, or close to it, I henna my roots and SMT my length.

Actually, I've morphed my SMT into a henna gloss over time, bit by bit. I started by omitting the aloe in the SMT (because I suspected it wouldn't make any difference - it didn't), then I started adding a couple spoonfuls of my henna mix to the conditioner/honey, then recently I omitted the honey as well. So now that I'm down to just conditioner and henna, I guess I can't really call mine SMT anymore, haha!! But I had been doing the SMT thing for well over a year without henna added, and the colour never stripped out at all.

Btw, I started adding the henna in because I find it really makes my hair feel thicker and smoother, reducing tangles - it had nothing to do with colour boost. I've been hennaing my hair for over 10 years, so I believe I'm at a saturation level that can't be removed with anything other than scissors :p

rouxlala
April 18th, 2017, 08:52 PM
Thanks guys! So the purpose of a henna gloss is not really for color maintenance, but more for treatment?

Suze
April 22nd, 2017, 03:58 PM
Glad to hear it worked for you! :) Did you end up using organic honey? I'm too lazy to do it too frequently (apparently mixing 3 ingredients is a lot of work... lol), but the results are worth it.
I used organic honey but not the raw one because it is way more expensive.

I will do the SMT again tomorrow because I really love how my hair feels after it and I also think my ends look better, they didn't bother me as much.


Thanks guys! So the purpose of a henna gloss is not really for color maintenance, but more for treatment?

I do hennaglosses for treatment mostly but it also gives me a hint off colour.

pandabarrier
April 23rd, 2017, 09:54 AM
Yesterday I did SMT with 4 parts of TRESemmé Botanique Damage Recovery with Macadamia Oil con, 1 part of aloe vera juice, 1 part of honey, 2 parts of henna.
The mix blended well, but it was a bit runny because I used aloe juice, not gel (I don't want to hack my aloe plant until it grows bigger). But I didn't make enough 'batter' so I used Shea Moisture Superfruit Masque on my hair ends. Left it for 1 hour and a half and it still gave me a hint of color, which is great because I don't want huge color change and then the new growth will be very visible etc.
I don't mind the scent of the TRESemmé Botanique, but combined with the Superfruit Masque my hair smells too sweet. Glad I don't work today, the scent will be faint by tomorrow. :laugh:

PixieP
May 5th, 2017, 11:47 AM
Anje posted a recipe for a protein-loaded SMT on the forums somewhere a bit back, mixing gelatin in. I decided to try it out since my hair loves protein and it sounded awesome to be able to merge a 2-step process into a 1-step. I made way too much and didn't have the heart to throw it away, so I put it in the fridge. Forgot about it for two weeks XD but after two weeks it hadn't gone bad, and still did a great job :D The gelatin made it go firm, but I tipped it into a metal bowl that was standing in a bowl of warm water and stirred a little bit, and it went right back to the right consistency. So for me that's very cool to know, that I can pre-make SMTs and it'll survive for two weeks!

Anje
May 5th, 2017, 01:16 PM
Anje posted a recipe for a protein-loaded SMT on the forums somewhere a bit back, mixing gelatin in. I decided to try it out since my hair loves protein and it sounded awesome to be able to merge a 2-step process into a 1-step. I made way too much and didn't have the heart to throw it away, so I put it in the fridge. Forgot about it for two weeks XD but after two weeks it hadn't gone bad, and still did a great job :D The gelatin made it go firm, but I tipped it into a metal bowl that was standing in a bowl of warm water and stirred a little bit, and it went right back to the right consistency. So for me that's very cool to know, that I can pre-make SMTs and it'll survive for two weeks!

Cool, glad that worked! Did you use the recipe I posted, and did that work? (I totally just made that up on the spot, so I'm hoping the ratios were OK.) I'm mostly just posting to copy-paste that in here, for posterity or whatever. Adding gelatin is totally meteor's idea, by the way. :D


Probably the easiest thing is to do an SMT but add some gelatin to it. I've got a link to the SMT thread in my signature, but making up a recipe off the top of my head, it'd look something like this:

1 packet of gelatin, or about 2 tsp. (10ml, because we crazy Americans measure everything by volume. I think a packet is 7g?)
1/2 cup of hot water. Mix with the gelatin. (120 ml)
1/2 cup of your favorite conditioner (more if needed) (120 ml)
4 Tablespoons honey. Corn syrup, pancake syrup, and treacle work too, if you don't have honey around. (60 ml)
Maybe 1 Tablespoon olive oil, if your hair likes oils. (15 ml)

Mix them together, smear on hair (especially the bayalaged parts), wrap hair in plastic. Put on a warm hat or a towel if you can do so without cooking yourself. Leave it in for 30-45 minutes, or however long you veg out watching TV until the sticky drips are making you insane. Rinse it out, maybe condition again and comb if you think it needs it.

PixieP
May 6th, 2017, 03:37 AM
It got slightly too thin, but I also used a conditioner that is very light and runny, would work better with a more creamy one. I had aloe in there too as my hair loves aloe in an SMT so that might also have contributed to runniness for me. But it didn't drip much actually!

oatmeal1991
May 8th, 2017, 08:53 AM
Tried my first SMT last night, using 3MM, clarifying with Suave beforehand. I don't think my hair has EVER been this soft and shiny, especially my ends :cheer::happydance:

Suze
May 11th, 2017, 03:39 PM
Tried my first SMT last night, using 3MM, clarifying with Suave beforehand. I don't think my hair has EVER been this soft and shiny, especially my ends :cheer::happydance:
Yay! :cheer:

I was that happy after my first 3 SMT's too but I did one on tuesday and my scalp just hurts. Found out the conditioner I used (Aussie 3MM) has cones in it. My scalp has been unhappy again lately but I didn't know it was the SMT's. I feel stupid that I didn't check the ingredients I just figured it was cone free. Oops, well lesson learned. *off to find a new conditioner*

gthlvrmx
May 14th, 2017, 06:22 PM
I did a mini SMT on my last wash with just conditioner and honey. This time, I closed the window and didn't turn on the air suction thing. After applying my oil at the end and I let it try, it was one of the best SMT results I have ever had and I had very soft hair. Its still pretty soft to swipe my hands over after a few days.

Looks like it's true, watch out for those humectants when the environment around is dry.

jfg1987
May 29th, 2017, 02:36 PM
Okay, after buying some Lily of the Desert aloe gel and letting it sit around for 7 months I'm finally going to try this thing! I'm going to use Tresemme Perfectly Undone conditioner; it's not on the list but it doesn't have cones or protein (I think? Def no comes at least) so here goes nothing!

Edit: So I did the SMT, left it in for a little over an hour and rinsed out. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to put all the usual leave in stuff in my hair after the SMT so I did LOC on the ends only and put a little bit of leave in on my scalp. There is definitely a difference in my hair but there's buildup on my scalp. I did put the SMT on top of my head and then the leave in, next time I'll lessen that substantially and not even bother with a leave in after that. I think I'll still do LOC for the ends though. Aside from an itchy scalp from time to time hair is very bouncy and not weighed down.

I have some SMT left over and I put it in the fridge, can I reuse it? Do I reheat it?

WildandSeawhite
June 1st, 2017, 10:08 AM
I did my first SMT yesterday, and my hair is delightfully soft! :happydance:

I used 1 tbsp of my Terax Crema conditioner, 1 1/2 tsp of raw unfiltered local honey, and 1 1/2 tsp of Lily of the Desert aloe vera gel, heated in the microwave for 10 seconds. I used all of it on my freshly washed hair and covered with a shower cap. I watched an episode of Downton Abbey (did anyone else feel a little sad when Lady Mary chopped off all her beautiful, long hair in season 5?? :boohoo:) and then rinsed and finished with my normal styling routine.

Here is a photo, next day, after it dried mostly down and was braided at bedtime and slept on.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/YIgRNJ.jpg

I lose some of my natural wave pattern from the bedtime braid, but it's not weighted in product. It's very very soft today.

Katia_k
June 3rd, 2017, 01:17 AM
I know this is in this thread somewhere, but I can't find it back...

I have 100 grams of cassia sitting around, and was thinking of mixing some into my SMT. Most often, when I see this, people have made the full 100 grams, and then mixed in the conditioner and stuff. Has anyone done this by just adding a few tablespoons of powder to their SMT? Did it do anything? Was it effective, or would I be better off waiting and doing a full cassia treatment + conditioner?

Again, sorry to ask a repeat question...this thread is huge.

Kandy
June 9th, 2017, 08:29 AM
As an alternative to microwaving the whole thing, wouldn't nuking the honey for 30-60 seconds to neutralize the peroxide provide enough heat to warm the rest of the formula?

reilly0167
June 12th, 2017, 12:01 PM
I know this is in this thread somewhere, but I can't find it back...

I have 100 grams of cassia sitting around, and was thinking of mixing some into my SMT. Most often, when I see this, people have made the full 100 grams, and then mixed in the conditioner and stuff. Has anyone done this by just adding a few tablespoons of powder to their SMT? Did it do anything? Was it effective, or would I be better off waiting and doing a full cassia treatment + conditioner?

Again, sorry to ask a repeat question...this thread is huge.
Sounds to me like a cassia gloss, couldnt hurt in trying it out in a smt. Lots of people use cassia and mix conditioner in it. I believe theres a thread cassia gloss.

Jo Ann
June 25th, 2017, 08:51 PM
Is it just my luck or has anyone else had a problem finding a conditioner that works well with an SMT?

I've tried VO5's Strawberries and Cream...I ended up with small curds (got most of them out with a fine-tooth comb), tangles galore and my hair seemed thicker, but felt dry! I couldn't reach my oils fast enough! :taz:

I got better results with Mane and Tail--at least I wasn't running for oil after I rinsed it out! Hair seemed thicker, and shiner, but still a bit rough to the touch...and still had tangles :(

I got some Aussie Mega Moist to try with the after-the-next batch (still have another application to try with Mane and Tail :confused: Better to use up the old before trying the new).

I HAVE found that, even if I'm not getting the results I want, the experiments seem to work well as a CO wash, so I'm not losing out completely on the products that don't work. I'm just going down Anje's list on the first post until I find what works for me. I'm used to using coney products, maybe non-coney products aren't working as well for me?