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Edelweiss
December 13th, 2014, 03:00 AM
I wondered the same thing, as the last time I tried SMT my hair was still not clean and it felt really weird.

I guess it just depends on people right ?

I had so good results the first time I tried that I want to do it again but I'm scare my hair doesn't need it and I don't really know how to be sure of that

Brattina88
December 21st, 2014, 12:06 PM
This is the second time I've done a SMT and I think I got it right this time! The first time I did it I wasn't impressed and wondered what all the fuss was about, or what I'd done wrong.
So, I decided to try again... Contrary to the 'normal' recipe I used Vo5 Strawberries and crime which says has soy milk protien... I used Walmart brand honey and Aloe from a live plant. I LOVE how my hair turned out, the smell is soooo yummy and my hair feels amazing now that it's dry. Definitely a keeper for my routine!!! :D day after hair is still amazing! Yaaay for hair success :) thank you SMT!! Now my mom wants me to do hers :p

Halliday
December 21st, 2014, 01:03 PM
Actually need to try an smt :knit:

rusika1
January 4th, 2015, 02:56 PM
So I've tried this 3 1/2 times and liked the results although I hate chopping up my poor aloe plant, and the perfume in the bottled version stayed in my hair through multiple washings. I found this stuff (http://www.amazon.com/HANASIA-ALOE-HONEY-TEA-1x35-3OZ/dp/B006QYOEMO) today (for $8, not $25!) and bought it to try. It contains aloe ggel, fructose, sugar, honey. citric acid and natural flavor. I'll report back after I use it.

Angelair
January 8th, 2015, 07:30 AM
It's been a while since I last did the SMT treatment. It's frigid out today, my hair feels dry, and i'm staying home with the kids, soooo - took a leaf of my aloe plant, split in half and scooped out all the juice and pulp, added the same amount of honey, nuked for 10 seconds, and added my Nature's Gate aloe vera moisturizing conditioner. It's sitting on my head now, under a plastic wrap and turbie towel....I remember how soft and moisturized my hair was last time i did the treatment - using the FOTE aloe and VO5 condish, wonder how the results will compare this time! It feels like such a treat in this cold, dry weather :knit:

Lavenderhaze
January 8th, 2015, 12:58 PM
I've been adding a tablespoon or so of aloe vera gel (Lily of the desert) brand from the health food store to my suave Coconut conditioner when I co-wash. Stick it up in a clip while I'm doing other shower type things.
It makes my extremely damaged hair feel moist and look shiny, and actually look and feel like hair again. Really like it.

Angelair
January 8th, 2015, 01:30 PM
I'm so happy with how this treatment turned out today - my hair feels and looks great, soft shiny and my dry, damaged ends even look nice. I gotta do this more often :)

Monsterkitti
January 10th, 2015, 08:32 AM
I decided I needed a pamper day as feeling bit under the weather so did SMT for first time in months, must do them more often! Followed up with a caffeine rinse and a shea/coconut leave in on the ends, my hair is feeling lovely now :)

elizk
January 23rd, 2015, 12:31 AM
I just got a Mastex heat cap and I am trying my very first ever SMT in about five minutes.

I will report back but I am sooooo excited. It's like Christmas all over again!

I made the exact original recipe - one cup conditioner (Garnier Hydro something), 1/4 cup honey (regular clover honey from Von's) and clear aloe vera gel from CVS (I think it's their brand - nothing fancy at any rate). So that's a cup and a half of SMT. I have waist length hair but I doubt it will take that much. I assume it will keep for a week or so? Seems as though it would.

Anyway - thanks to you lovely ladies and your wonderful suggestions, I'm off on a hair adventure!

JustPam
January 23rd, 2015, 03:52 AM
I have scheduled my first SMT for this weekend, wondering whether to go and buy a specific conditioner for it since neither of the ones I have are on the list.

elizk
January 25th, 2015, 10:16 PM
My results - I tried this on Thursday night (three days ago). I made the classic recipe using Garnier Nutrisse Hydra Recharge conditioner, generic honey and generic clear aloe vera gel.

I warmed the honey in the microwave for ten seconds. I let it cool for a couple of minutes. Then I whisked in the aloe vera gel, then whisked in the conditioner 1/4 cup at a time. It ended up with a thick, creamy consistency. I washed my hair with a clarifying shampoo, towel-dried it then slathered on the SMT, worked it in and combed it through with a wide tooth shower comb.

I had some trouble getting it to stay tucked in under the heat cap's second inner cap. I pre-heated the Mastex and tried to get my hair to stay in place on top of my head under the clear cap with only partial success. I put the hot over-cap on anyway, knowing some of my hair had slid down low on the back. It doesn't get heat there but I didn't want to use metal bobby pins with a heat cap. I'll have to work on this method.

So I cooked it for an hour (and watched a tv show) and then rinsed and rinsed and rinsed - finishing with a cold rinse. My hair didn't seem that great at first. It took a long time to dry and while it was shiny it wasn't all that soft. Then the next day - WOW. Sleek, soft, shiny, more slip than Crisco on the kitchen floor. It's amazing. It feels nice today, too. I'm going to wash and condition as normal tomorrow - I can't wait to see how it holds.

Again, many, many thanks to the lovely ladies at LHC. Your success with your own hair is so encouraging to those of us just getting started with long hair care.

Now I'm going to have to venture into the world of extra-roomy (and pricey!) hair clips. The ones I have are woefully inadequate. I never know when they're going to pop open and they squeeze my hair so tight I think it must be damaging.

elizk
January 25th, 2015, 10:17 PM
My results - I tried this on Thursday night (three days ago). I made the classic recipe using Garnier Nutrisse Hydra Recharge conditioner, generic honey and generic clear aloe vera gel.

I warmed the honey in the microwave for ten seconds. I let it cool for a couple of minutes. Then I whisked in the aloe vera gel, then whisked in the conditioner 1/4 cup at a time. It ended up with a thick, creamy consistency. I washed my hair with a clarifying shampoo, towel-dried it then slathered on the SMT, worked it in and combed it through with a wide tooth shower comb.

I had some trouble getting it to stay tucked in under the heat cap's second inner cap. I pre-heated the Mastex and tried to get my hair to stay in place on top of my head under the clear cap with only partial success. I put the hot over-cap on anyway, knowing some of my hair had slid down low on the back. It doesn't get heat there but I didn't want to use metal bobby pins with a heat cap. I'll have to work on this method.

So I cooked it for an hour (and watched a tv show) and then rinsed and rinsed and rinsed - finishing with a cold rinse. My hair didn't seem that great at first. It took a long time to dry and while it was shiny it wasn't all that soft. Then the next day - WOW. Sleek, soft, shiny, more slip than Crisco on the kitchen floor. It's amazing. It feels nice today, too. I'm going to wash and condition as normal tomorrow - I can't wait to see how it holds.

Again, many, many thanks to the lovely ladies at LHC. Your success with your own hair is so encouraging to those of us just getting started with long hair care.

Now I'm going to have to venture into the world of extra-roomy (and pricey!) hair clips. The ones I have are woefully inadequate. I never know when they're going to pop open and they squeeze my hair so tight I think it must be damaging.

JustPam
January 26th, 2015, 03:32 AM
I done mine last night, I ended up just using my usual Tresemme Naturals condish and it mixed quite well, although I did forget to microwave it before I went in the shower and just warmed it up by sitting the bowl in hot water in the bathroom sink. I used 4 Tbsp conditioner, 1 Tbsp honey and 1 Tbsp Lifeplan aloe vera gel and that covered my hair quite thickly, I then slapped it all flat to my head, put on a shower cap and then put my turbie wrap on. I only ended up leaving it on for 45 mins because I had to go out but it did make a difference in my ends. Will do another in a couple of weeks or so and try and leave it on for a few hours.

lapushka
January 26th, 2015, 07:07 AM
I'm wondering what it'll do if you change up the recipe a bit, like conditioner / AV gel / and a natural oil or a few drops of mineral oil. Hmm...

Wildcat Diva
January 26th, 2015, 07:26 AM
I don't think mineral oil would be good for a DT. I'd pick olive or coconut.

I'm frustrated because whatever additives are in my FOTE clear aloe gel will not mix with any conditioners without curding. Even SKR Vo5.

slynr
January 26th, 2015, 08:03 AM
I've had curding issues too with several conditioner tried. I use same aloe. Frustrating!

Anje
January 26th, 2015, 08:26 AM
Just curious, does it curdle if you don't microwave it? I recall that I was messing around with that once upon a time, but I don't remember my results. XD

Anje
January 26th, 2015, 08:26 AM
Just curious, does it curdle if you don't microwave it? I recall that I was messing around with that once upon a time, but I don't remember my results. XD

lapushka
January 26th, 2015, 08:42 AM
I used to use AV gel (the gel kind for sunburns) and that didn't curdle. Maybe it's the AV gel?

JustPam
January 26th, 2015, 08:56 AM
I'm wondering what it'll do if you change up the recipe a bit, like conditioner / AV gel / and a natural oil or a few drops of mineral oil. Hmm...

I might add a spot of jojoba oil next time, my hair likes it as a leave-in, I just wanted to try the original recipe first. I also have a bottle of castor oil that's not getting used much.

Wildcat Diva
January 26th, 2015, 11:07 AM
Just curious, does it curdle if you don't microwave it? I recall that I was messing around with that once upon a time, but I don't remember my results. XD

Yes it does. Like if I take cold conditioner and mix in the aloe in my hand, it curdles and makes clumps that I don't want to put into my hair. Sigh.

FallingDarkness
January 26th, 2015, 11:50 AM
Do people use this as the first "C" in CWC? Because I consistently CWC and was wondering if I could use SMT all over my hair for an hour before I wash it out, shampoo, and then condition again. And what people's experience was with that.
I use VO5's moisture conditioner products, and whenever I feel the need to use cones I use Aussie's 3MM, but that's maybe once every two months or so. If that helps.

meteor
January 26th, 2015, 12:53 PM
I'm wondering what it'll do if you change up the recipe a bit, like conditioner / AV gel / and a natural oil or a few drops of mineral oil. Hmm...

I always modify my "SMT" by adding oil (about a tbsp), and I often add gelatin + hot water to turn it into both a strengthening and moisturizing pack. ;)
I love the honey + oil combination (humectants + occlusives in one application are super-moisturizing), and my SMTs always come out nicer with some oil(s) in the mix.
I skip AVG, to be honest, because I have trouble finding commercial AVG without the kinds of additives I like to avoid.


Do people use this as the first "C" in CWC? Because I consistently CWC and was wondering if I could use SMT all over my hair for an hour before I wash it out, shampoo, and then condition again. And what people's experience was with that.

I prefer SMT post-shampoo for results, but pre-shampoo for ease of application.

Basically, humectants wash out very easily from my hair, so I prefer them in my second "C" rather than the first one. However, concoctions with honey can be super-drippy on wet hair, so some may prefer the convenience of applying SMT pre-poo.

FallingDarkness
January 26th, 2015, 04:10 PM
I prefer SMT post-shampoo for results, but pre-shampoo for ease of application.

Basically, humectants wash out very easily from my hair, so I prefer them in my second "C" rather than the first one. However, concoctions with honey can be super-drippy on wet hair, so some may prefer the convenience of applying SMT pre-poo.

Hmm, thanks!
I'll probably do it pre-poo more often because my hair takes FOREVER to dry, so it's hard to find a time when I can wash my hair and have it all dry by the time I need to leave my house/put it up/go to sleep etc. The idea of washing my hair, then doing an SMT for an hour, then rinsing it out AGAIN sounds really time consuming. Also, I'd have a mop of wet hair. :P
On a day when I'm doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING I'll for sures try it out post-poo.
Post Poo. LOL.

Olympias7
January 26th, 2015, 06:51 PM
FallingDarkness, I usually do mine pre-shampoo. I modify it with a little jojoba or argan oil and really saturate my scalp (massage it in) as well as the ends and length. I *have* to use shampoo to wash out the honey, coconut oil, other oil. If I don't, I end up with a greasy scalp. That's just my method, which gives me good results. I am sure that other methods/modifications work for other people.

JustPam
January 27th, 2015, 02:33 AM
FallingDarkness you could see if it works as a CO wash for you?

FallingDarkness
January 27th, 2015, 10:24 PM
Olympias7, Do you wet your hair before you apply the SMT? Thanks for the advice, I'm gonna add some coconut oil to the mix in my SMT tomorrow and so I want to know about your experiences. :P

JustPam, does it normally work as a CO wash for you? Our hair types are similarish... I'd really like to start CO washing though, and CO washing with SMT sounds pretty dang fantastic.

JustPam
January 28th, 2015, 06:33 AM
JustPam, does it normally work as a CO wash for you? Our hair types are similarish... I'd really like to start CO washing though, and CO washing with SMT sounds pretty dang fantastic.

I've never actually tried a CO wash myself yet to know if it works, I'm up for the experiment though. My ends would probably love it, scalp is a bit iffy, think I have mild SD so it might not work too great as a frequent method for me if I do.

Anje
January 28th, 2015, 03:03 PM
FWIW, it works as a CO wash for me. But my scalp is generally perfectly happy with CO. (It's slightly less happy with me leaving conditioner on it for a long treatment, but I can work with that.)

Olympias7
January 28th, 2015, 04:28 PM
FallingDarkness - I apply the SMT on dry hair. I use a cotton ball to apply it to my scalp area by putting in along my part and the moving sections of hair over, making another part and applying it there until I have my whole head done. Then I use my fingers to apply it to the ends and length of my hair (I really try to saturate the ends). I do a scalp massage for a few minutes and then put my hair up. I keep it in for an hour and then wash it out with shampoo. For me, it takes 2 rounds of shampoo to get all the oils out. Then I condition as normal. Good luck!!!

-Fern
February 16th, 2015, 01:10 PM
meteor - Thanks for the feedback about leaving out the aloe vera... I can't seem to find any at my local store that doesn't also have alcohol in it and don't want to go on an epic quest for it just this moment. I will try the way you do it. =)

ETA - :happydance: I applied this slightly modified SMT to the bottom four inches of my hair, and the ends drank it up. They are no longer crunchy and look just like the rest of my hair! :happydance:

Avis
February 26th, 2015, 04:36 PM
I'm going to try my first SMT this Saturday since I accidentally found some AVG without dye or alcohol. There were little 2 oz bottles of it in the travel size aisle at Target. I think I'll try it as a DC, then maybe try modifying it or using it as a C in WCC or CWC.

Avis
February 28th, 2015, 01:03 PM
My hair is still wet but I think it worked really well! It was a little chunky (I'm pretty sure it was the aloe that made it chunky) but it wasn't difficult to wash out, so I don't mind the chunks. I used V05 Passion Fruit Smoothie conditioner, Fruit of the Earth aloe gel and some locally sourced honey. It felt like silk after I washed it. I'm going to have to add this to my routine! Maybe not a weekly thing, but I'll experiment.

IndyAndy
March 2nd, 2015, 08:47 AM
Okay I waded thru the first 20 pages of this thread but I am super impatient. So my question is this: I don't have a microwave, is it possible to heat this mixture on the stove top? has anyone tried?

Anje
March 2nd, 2015, 09:08 AM
Okay I waded thru the first 20 pages of this thread but I am super impatient. So my question is this: I don't have a microwave, is it possible to heat this mixture on the stove top? has anyone tried?

I'd either do a double-boiler (metal bowl in a pot with water underneath, so it steams the bottom of the bowl) or just use it cold. The heat might help a little, but if you wad your hair up next to your head, it'll get pretty warm anyway. Just leave it on a little longer, maybe put a hat or warm towel over your shower cap, and call it good enough. :)

IndyAndy
March 2nd, 2015, 09:11 AM
I'd either do a double-boiler (metal bowl in a pot with water underneath, so it steams the bottom of the bowl) or just use it cold. The heat might help a little, but if you wad your hair up next to your head, it'll get pretty warm anyway. Just leave it on a little longer, maybe put a hat or warm towel over your shower cap, and call it good enough. :)

Thank you! I just came across the other posts early in the thread that mentioned using a double boiler as well :P

JustPam
March 2nd, 2015, 09:43 AM
I forgot to microwave mine before I got in the shower so I just sat the bowl in some hot tap water (which in my house is VERY hot) while I shampoo'd and stuff and it was nice and warm by the time I was ready to apply it.

kidari
March 2nd, 2015, 04:47 PM
SMT has been saving my over-proteined hair. I was continuing to use strengthening and repairing hair care products from the days I was nursing my bleached hair back to health and it's made my hair crunchy and brittle.

Has anyone ever made a big batch at once? How long do you think it keeps for?

kidari
March 2nd, 2015, 04:48 PM
Thank you! I just came across the other posts early in the thread that mentioned using a double boiler as well :P

Try using it in a double boiler and then mixing it with an electric hand mixer- it's so fun!

Auni
March 12th, 2015, 07:03 AM
So I did my first SMT yesterday. Used Biologe conditioning balm, FOTE clear aloe, and organic honey. Microwaved it for 10 seconds, it was nice and warm, not hot. Washed my hair with cone free poo, and applied it. After I rinsed it out, I had all these white, "globs" in my hair! My hair felt great and it was moisturized, but all these white things were everywhere! I grabbed one, and it was like pieces of shredded paper, they didn't disintigrate, and they reminded me of soft feathery plastic! Has anyone experienced this? What do you think happened?

JustPam
March 12th, 2015, 07:42 AM
Auni its probably something in the conditioner, try using a different one next time and see if it fixes it. There's a list of conditioners in the first post that work well, and also ones that don't.

StellaKatherine
March 12th, 2015, 07:44 AM
I get my aloe vera from the plant. Got 2 aloe plants from the frocery store. They do not need much of attention. Grow very well, just need to remember to not over water as this plants die from too much of water :D Anyway, cut the amount needed and use in the treatment. Easy, and 100% natural :D

Auni
March 12th, 2015, 09:56 AM
I checked the list and biologe was on the Good list:confused:

Anje
March 12th, 2015, 11:11 AM
Ugh, the dreaded SMT curds!

My personal hypothesis is that they've got something to do with heating aloe gel too much, but I really don't know. I've gotten them a time or two myself, often using the same products that worked well before, and they're a PIA! I've had luck waiting til my hair is dry and brushing out the remnants, and my hair still feels super-moisturized even when I get them, though.

Auni
March 12th, 2015, 02:33 PM
Ugh, the dreaded SMT curds!

My personal hypothesis is that they've got something to do with heating aloe gel too much, but I really don't know. I've gotten them a time or two myself, often using the same products that worked well before, and they're a PIA! I've had luck waiting til my hair is dry and brushing out the remnants, and my hair still feels super-moisturized even when I get them, though.

SMT curds:laugh: Ok, so I'll give it another go, but I really didn't heat it that much:confused:. Maybe I'll add the aloe after I heat the others? Anyways, yeah they came out pretty well once dry

Avis
March 14th, 2015, 03:04 PM
I fixed the aloe gel clumps by heating the honey and gel first to get it nice and smooth. No more clumps (not to be confused with SMT curds haha). I also added about 1/8 part of coconut oil, just because. My hair is still pretty damp, but it feels great.

yogagirl
March 15th, 2015, 07:46 PM
Hmmm I did my first SMT today and it wasn't a huge success unfortunately. I used Joico Smooth Cure (sulfate and cone free, ETA: correction, it actually has amodimethicone) condish, blackstrap molasses and aloe gel from whole foods (Lily of the desert). I warmed it gently in a hot tap water bath/double boiler type setup, though it didn't get very hot, just warm. I did cover my hair with a plastic bag, but is probably only left it in for 15 mins max while I was in the shower.

I used Joico chelating shampoo first, then SMT. My hair is dry and strawy, esp the ends. I've only ever had this strawy feeling once which was the only other time I've tried a clarifying shampoo (about a month ago). I got it back to somewhat normal with lots of coney conditioner, but I feel like it was still a bit drier than usual. Now I feel a bit stupid for clarifying again... My reasoning was that maybe it needed chelating and not just clarifying, because we have very hard water here, but I'm now thinking this was a bad idea. My hair has never felt so dry :(

What would you try next? Just keep doing my regular routine of wash and coney condish? I normally alternate between coney and non coney to keep my hair from getting too slippery.

Another try at SMT, leaving it on longer and/or a different recipe?

My hair is a cone-aholic, so maybe do a deep treatment with my coney condish?

BrendaLoan
March 15th, 2015, 08:03 PM
Hmmm I did my first SMT today and it wasn't a huge success unfortunately. I used Joico Smooth Cure (sulfate and cone free) condish, blackstrap molasses and aloe gel from whole foods (Lily of the desert). I warmed it gently in a hot tap water bath/double boiler type setup, though it didn't get very hot, just warm. I did cover my hair with a plastic bag, but is probably only left it in for 15 mins max while I was in the shower.

I used Joico chelating shampoo first, then SMT. My hair is dry and strawy, esp the ends. I've only ever had this strawy feeling once which was the only other time I've tried a clarifying shampoo (about a month ago). I got it back to somewhat normal with lots of coney conditioner, but I feel like it was still a bit drier than usual. Now I feel a bit stupid for clarifying again... My reasoning was that maybe it needed chelating and not just clarifying, because we have very hard water here, but I'm now thinking this was a bad idea. My hair has never felt so dry :(

What would you try next? Just keep doing my regular routine of wash and coney condish? I normally alternate between coney and non coney to keep my hair from getting too slippery.

Another try at SMT, leaving it on longer and/or a different recipe?

My hair is a cone-aholic, so maybe do a deep treatment with my coney condish?

This has happened to me a few times, and I still cant tell what the reason was (the aloe plant? maybe a different conditioner?) Anyway, I'm just writing to let you know that (at least in my case) the dry hair feeling gets much better as the days go by, and hair gets back to normal after a few days, so I think you shouldn't worry abour that :flower:

Alexandra.
March 16th, 2015, 08:24 AM
Here's a tip. Heat the honey first maybe at least 30 seconds, then add the aloe gel, stir and heat again like maybe 20 seconds more, then I let it cool a few minutes before adding the condish. This way it won't be as likely to curdle the condish, which happened to me the first time and I got curds. Epic fail! .....

My hair loves the SMT, my hair is extremely soft and shiny and silky. I have done one every week recently, even using as kind of as a CO wash. ......




Well, I dream of soft and silky but have pretty much run out of patience will everything I have tried! Will try SMT one more time with another conditioner specifically bought from the 'good list' and then give up. Stiff, tangled hair. Horrible, horrible texture! Like if I do a CO wash only worse. Like if I use coconut oil only much worse.

Varied the microwave times, point of adding conditioner, amount of conditioner, etc. Checked and rechecked good quality ingredients. Always Saran wrapped, always well rinsed, in fact got back in shower just to be certain after hair simply wasn't dry after two hours. Feel like I am doing more damage to myself looking for good stuff than just leaving well alone. Feeling pretty down about it!

I henna roots every three or four weeks, full head once a year or so. Use Argan oil from Primark lightly when wet. Lots of hair fall. Oily as hell at roots after one day, dry as bone elsewhere.

My hair wouldn't go much below bra strap length for years - satin pillows, sleep with hair up did the trick. Then micro trimming and SO gave another boost and I am finally at top of hip. Trimmed from V to U slowly to thicken ends. Want classic SO MUCH!

So.....Will try try a beer rinse next week, then nettles in spring but after that am going to quit everything homemade, natural or otherwise and stick with whatever I like the smell of from the pound store, which was my usual uncomplicated hair care approach. So disappointed.

yogagirl
March 16th, 2015, 09:46 AM
Brenda, thank you. I will give it a few days and go from there. I put it up for now and am avoiding handling/brushing until i get some slip back into it.

Alexandra, I'm with you. SMT also gave me stiff, tangled hair. I've only tried once, but I don't know if I want to try again. I've been doing pretty well on my standard shampoo and condition routine, so I think I'll stick to that for now.

And congrats on getting past BSL with your new routine, that's very exciting!

BrendaLoan
March 24th, 2015, 02:15 PM
Staying at home today, with a bag in my head (so sexy! :eyebrows:) My hair will aprecciate some pampering :) I mixed the ingredients with a hand blender and got a thick, homogeneous cream that smells delicious

ETA: Success! :) Shiny soft hair, yay! I can't stop touching it

Camee
March 24th, 2015, 10:22 PM
I'm doing my very first SMT (despite being a member here for ages many years ago). I've managed to score the place to myself and I'm parked with a soft dryer hood on top of my glad wrap and SMT hair. I applied to dry hair, and depending on results, thinking of trialling a wet/damp application later this week if needed. I'll report back!

gthlvrmx
April 2nd, 2015, 10:19 PM
I have a question, what kind of honey can you use for your hair for a SMT? What brand and what store can you find it in?

Sarahlabyrinth
April 3rd, 2015, 12:09 AM
Are you supposed to use this on wet or dry hair? Also do you use it on clean or dirty hair?

JustPam
April 3rd, 2015, 02:44 AM
Are you supposed to use this on wet or dry hair? Also do you use it on clean or dirty hair?

I shampoo my hair first (with SLS because I use cones) and let it half dry, it's too difficult to spread evenly on totally dry hair and wet hair ends up being too heavy and dribbly to sit with for ages.

Arctic
April 3rd, 2015, 01:41 PM
I have a question, what kind of honey can you use for your hair for a SMT? What brand and what store can you find it in?

Any type. :) If you are worried it's lightening effect, you can heat the honey first.

If, for ethical or practical reasons you can't get use it, you can change honey for any type of sugar (syrups might be easiest to use). All kinds of sugars, honey included, are mositurizing and also humectants.

I don't know where in your country you can get honey, here it is sold in every store. But I have read that in USA products sold as honey are not always honey at all (or only contain little bit of honey), so if you do want real 100% honey, be careful about the ingredients!

Arctic
April 3rd, 2015, 01:43 PM
Are you supposed to use this on wet or dry hair? Also do you use it on clean or dirty hair?

In the end I don't think it matters. Use as you use your other deep treatments, or test different ways. My own deep treatments are usually put on pre-shampoo on slightly moistened (but otherwise dry/not clean) hair, as a pre-poo treatment. It just suits my daily schedules best that way.

cocoahair
April 3rd, 2015, 04:01 PM
Had an SMT disaster last night lol. used fruit of the loom aloe and organic honey by Stinger. But i don't think that was the problem...I used Shea Moisture as my conditioner and I had horrible clumps lol Oh well :hmm:

gthlvrmx
April 3rd, 2015, 05:42 PM
Any type. :) If you are worried it's lightening effect, you can heat the honey first.

If, for ethical or practical reasons you can't get use it, you can change honey for any type of sugar (syrups might be easiest to use). All kinds of sugars, honey included, are mositurizing and also humectants.

I don't know where in your country you can get honey, here it is sold in every store. But I have read that in USA products sold as honey are not always honey at all (or only contain little bit of honey), so if you do want real 100% honey, be careful about the ingredients!

Thank you so much for your response! I bought some honey from a farm store nearby, its supposedly raw honey from their bee farm. :)

gthlvrmx
April 7th, 2015, 07:23 PM
Can I still use a ACV rinse and leave it in my hair after I do a SMT? Would that cause any problems?

Sarahlabyrinth
April 7th, 2015, 07:28 PM
Can I still use a ACV rinse and leave it in my hair after I do a SMT? Would that cause any problems?

Vinegar rinses left in have never harmed my hair after any treatments I have done. I have the rinse well diluted of course.

gthlvrmx
April 7th, 2015, 07:33 PM
Vinegar rinses left in have never harmed my hair after any treatments I have done. I have the rinse well diluted of course.

Oh ok I am glad someone else does it! That's what I shall do then, off to give my hair it's first SMT! I will report back when it's done.

gthlvrmx
April 8th, 2015, 12:40 PM
OK I finished my SMT last night. I oiled my hair with baby oil afterwards and my hair feels softer than usual! I do like the results! I feel if I had left the SMT on longer, I would have even softer hair but that's ok! I needed to exercise! I feel as if the SMT removed the coated feeling on my hair that made my hair stick together a little bit (build up maybe?). I don't know if it really got rid of the build up, I doubt it, but it did make my hair softer. I am certain I will try this again another time.

gthlvrmx
April 8th, 2015, 01:19 PM
I have a question, is the honey used for a SMT damaging to hair due to the peroxide? I heated the honey for 30 seconds to kill the enzyme but I got worried that is not enough time to kill the peroxide in it. I really do not want to get damage from this. Will microwaving it for EXACTLY 30 seconds really kill the enzyme/peroxide in it or do you have to go over 30 seconds to get that desired no-peroxide result?

JustPam
April 9th, 2015, 03:22 AM
I have a question, is the honey used for a SMT damaging to hair due to the peroxide? I heated the honey for 30 seconds to kill the enzyme but I got worried that is not enough time to kill the peroxide in it. I really do not want to get damage from this. Will microwaving it for EXACTLY 30 seconds really kill the enzyme/peroxide in it or do you have to go over 30 seconds to get that desired no-peroxide result?

I think you are being a bit overcautious here, the average H202 content of honey is only 1mmol/l, 1 mole is about 34 grams so 1 millimole is 34mg, per litre. I'd guess you are using maybe a tbsp of honey in your mix? Woo, maths time!

1 tbsp = 15ml = 0.015l

34mg x 0.015 = 0.51mg

So a possible 0.5mg of H2O2 in your mix, even if you didn't deactivate ANY of that it wouldn't put so much as a dent in your hair, plus you have the aloe and conditioner in there to counter any drying/damaging effects.

For comparison, if you coloured your hair with 5 vol developer (the weakest and only used for darkening, not lifting), thats 1.5% H2O2 (15ml/l = ~15g/l), you'd probably use 50ml, 15g x 0.05 = 0.75g = 750mg

750 / 0.5 = 1500

So you are using 1500 times less H2O2 than the weakest peroxide dye if you don't heat the honey at all, plus super-conditioning at the same time, I think you'll be fine.

P.s. thanks for the maths and chemistry exercise :D

Arctic
April 9th, 2015, 01:58 PM
Well over the years I've seen people reporting damaged hair from honey, but I'm not familar/can't remember the details.

I don't know how long your should heat it. I never heat mine and haven't see damage.

Syrups and other sugars are a good option for honey in SMT.

Anje
April 9th, 2015, 02:03 PM
Well over the years I've seen people reporting damaged hair from honey, but I'm not familar/can't remember the details.

I don't know how long your should heat it. I never heat mine and haven't see damage.

Syrups and other sugars are a good option for honey in SMT.
I think most of the people who reported honey damage had been actively trying to lighten their hair. The ratios are fairly different: an SMT is 1/6th honey (give or take), whereas honey lightening recipes are more like 1/2 or 2/3 honey, right? I've not seen any reports that I can think of, of SMTs causing lightening.

But yes, I can report that molasses and corn syrup work just fine in SMTs, without any risk of lightening at all.

Arctic
April 9th, 2015, 02:06 PM
You are probably right, those cases have been honey lihgtening and not SMTing.

gthlvrmx
April 10th, 2015, 03:26 PM
I think you are being a bit overcautious here, the average H202 content of honey is only 1mmol/l, 1 mole is about 34 grams so 1 millimole is 34mg, per litre. I'd guess you are using maybe a tbsp of honey in your mix? Woo, maths time!

1 tbsp = 15ml = 0.015l

34mg x 0.015 = 0.51mg

So a possible 0.5mg of H2O2 in your mix, even if you didn't deactivate ANY of that it wouldn't put so much as a dent in your hair, plus you have the aloe and conditioner in there to counter any drying/damaging effects.

For comparison, if you coloured your hair with 5 vol developer (the weakest and only used for darkening, not lifting), thats 1.5% H2O2 (15ml/l = ~15g/l), you'd probably use 50ml, 15g x 0.05 = 0.75g = 750mg

750 / 0.5 = 1500

So you are using 1500 times less H2O2 than the weakest peroxide dye if you don't heat the honey at all, plus super-conditioning at the same time, I think you'll be fine.

P.s. thanks for the maths and chemistry exercise :D
Thank you for that! I used 1 tablespoon of honey yes. I appreciate the math and chemistry you did there :p

Well over the years I've seen people reporting damaged hair from honey, but I'm not familar/can't remember the details.

I don't know how long your should heat it. I never heat mine and haven't see damage.

Syrups and other sugars are a good option for honey in SMT.
I think it's alright then if you haven't gotten damage. Thanks!

yogagirl
April 11th, 2015, 10:40 AM
Hmmm I did my first SMT today and it wasn't a huge success unfortunately. I used Joico Smooth Cure (sulfate and cone free, ETA: correction, it actually has amodimethicone) condish, blackstrap molasses and aloe gel from whole foods (Lily of the desert). I warmed it gently in a hot tap water bath/double boiler type setup, though it didn't get very hot, just warm. I did cover my hair with a plastic bag, but is probably only left it in for 15 mins max while I was in the shower.

I used Joico chelating shampoo first, then SMT. My hair is dry and strawy, esp the ends. I've only ever had this strawy feeling once which was the only other time I've tried a clarifying shampoo (about a month ago). I got it back to somewhat normal with lots of coney conditioner, but I feel like it was still a bit drier than usual. Now I feel a bit stupid for clarifying again... My reasoning was that maybe it needed chelating and not just clarifying, because we have very hard water here, but I'm now thinking this was a bad idea. My hair has never felt so dry :(

What would you try next? Just keep doing my regular routine of wash and coney condish? I normally alternate between coney and non coney to keep my hair from getting too slippery.

Another try at SMT, leaving it on longer and/or a different recipe?

My hair is a cone-aholic, so maybe do a deep treatment with my coney condish?


This has happened to me a few times, and I still cant tell what the reason was (the aloe plant? maybe a different conditioner?) Anyway, I'm just writing to let you know that (at least in my case) the dry hair feeling gets much better as the days go by, and hair gets back to normal after a few days, so I think you shouldn't worry abour that :flower:

I noticed I never did a follow-up. My first SMT left my hair super dry and straw-y... for about 1.5 days. Then all of a sudden my hair turned into a slippery, mega-moisturized pile of "touch me" hair! It was the strangest thing! Exactly like BrendaLoan said it would be. There was another post in this thread describing this (though I can't find it right now), so it seems like it is not uncommon.

BTW, the next few times I washed my hair after SMT, I got a very similar effect. For 1.5 days after the wash, my hair felt just ok. Then SUPER moisturized again! It was so odd. It's been about 4 weeks now and the effect is wearing off. It might be time for another try soon. Does anybody have an idea how I could modify the recipe to prevent those first 2 days of straw-y hair? I'm worried about damage when it feels like that.

Less aloe? Less honey? Less of both? Could the amodimethicone in the conditioner be at fault by blocking the humectant's access to humidity? :confused:

poli
April 15th, 2015, 12:29 PM
I did this second time. First was ok, but today it's Super!
Ends feel exactly like the rest of my hair. This is rare.
I did warm it much more than before. Nice, soft, silky hair :cheese:

Akville
April 17th, 2015, 01:32 AM
I've got very strange result.. it didn't feel moisturized at all.. kind of dried and stripped.. I kept it the whole night it was the worst night in my life :DDD couldn't sleep a thing..
will try another time maybe with more luck..

Akville
April 17th, 2015, 01:32 AM
I've got very strange result.. it didn't feel moisturized at all.. kind of dried and stripped.. I kept it the whole night it was the worst night in my life :DDD couldn't sleep a thing..
will try another time maybe with more luck..

yogagirl
April 18th, 2015, 04:12 PM
If you look at the previous page, I also got a similar result. However after about 1.5 days my hair magically got super silky, sleek and moisturized. It's the strangest thing. At least two others have posted about the same effect. Hope it will be the same for you!

gthlvrmx
April 21st, 2015, 01:16 PM
I just did my 3rd ever SMT and the results were great! It seems like my hair gets softer after a vinegar rinse and then the oiling at the end gives me the best softness. I am happy it came out softer than last time.

cat11
April 25th, 2015, 11:26 AM
Just did my first real SMT last night!! Before I just used conditioner and aloe. On a reccomendation from another thread, (forgive me for not finding out who said it and crediting them) I tried it with agave nectar to replace the honey (afraid of lightening.) Its very easy to over condition my hair, so I didnt put it on for as long as some. I mixed tressemme naturals silicone free conditioner with fruit of the earth aloe and honey tree brand blue agave nectar. I didn't heat it, but my hair was heated from the shower and I used a shower cap. I left it on for 15-20 minutes while I shaved and stuff. It worked great!!!! I love it. Ill try it heated and for longer times next. I also want to try a wash-protein-smt 3 step some time soon.

The agave nectar is more liquidy and less sticky than honey too, it worked great!

Hairkay
April 25th, 2015, 12:10 PM
Anyone ever had an SMT without using shop bought and manufactured conditioner?

hinabelle
April 25th, 2015, 05:23 PM
I used a fresh aloe leaf and creamed honey, and my mixture turned pink before I put the
conditioner in!!! What the heck? :confused: Is that normal?

divinedobbie
April 26th, 2015, 05:20 PM
I used a fresh aloe leaf and creamed honey, and my mixture turned pink before I put the
conditioner in!!! What the heck? :confused: Is that normal?

:hmm: I've used fresh aloe leaf gel and honey (can't remember if it was creamed but probably, since that's the one we buy most often) and it didn't turn pink as far as I remember. I'm pretty sure I would've remembered if it had!

meteor
April 26th, 2015, 05:48 PM
I used a fresh aloe leaf and creamed honey, and my mixture turned pink before I put the
conditioner in!!! What the heck? :confused: Is that normal?

I haven't used fresh aloe from aloe leaf in SMT, but sometimes when I used fresh aloe gel from the plant on my skin I noticed that the scraped off leaf would get pinkish/reddish staining and the gel did a little bit, too.
Apparently, it's normal for aloe plants to have those kinds of color changes, at least that's what almighty Google seems to suggest. ;)

mssummerrose
April 26th, 2015, 08:48 PM
Just put on my first SMT (got some on my phone, too). I plan to sleep with it overnight. We will see what happens! It was much more runny than expected. Made quite a mess!

Katlette
April 28th, 2015, 08:33 AM
I did my first ever SMT this morning.

I used Dr.Organic Pomegranate conditioner*, Holland and Barrett's clear aloe vera gel, and some squeezy runny honey. I don't have a microwave, so I heated the mixture by placing the bowl in hot water. The consistency was nice: thick, smooth, no lumps.

I coated my length from ears down and massaged what I had left on my hands into my scalp-hair. I kept it on for 90 minutes under a plastic bag and scarf.

It took quite some time to rinse out, and even after that there were a few white flakes still in my hair. I suspect my plastic bag failed to keep it moist enough, maybe? The flakes came out easily enough once I brushed my hair, and then my length looked lovely! Really soft, really smooth, just I hoped for!

My scalp, though, looks awful. Despite genuinely rinsing for ages, it feels like it's coated in gel! I realise my roots don't need as much moisture as my length and ends do, which is why I put so little on my head in the first place. What bemuses me is that I cannot rinse it off. I'm wondering if a clarifying shampoo would be best. I'd try a mermaid soak, but don't have a bath...

I haven't read all of the thread, so I don't know if anyone else does this, but from now on I'll do this on the length from ears down only.

Positive note: this gives me a good excuse to try out a scalp-only wash!

*I'm a bit confused about this conditioner - the bottle says it's vegan, but the ingredients list hydrolyzed milk protein. In either case, the protein is quite far down the list so I expect it wouldn't matter.

hinabelle
April 28th, 2015, 06:02 PM
meteor, thank you so much! I also forgot to microwave it so there were big aloe chunks that
didn't make it into my hair. I think my SMT was primarily honey/conditioner, hehe :) I'll have to
give it another go when my SO's mother takes another leaf from her aloe plant. The only aloe gel
around here commercially comes in huge bottles that are pretty expensive. :rolleyes:

rosalinda
April 29th, 2015, 12:57 PM
I already posted this in deep conditioning but thought it might be better here.. by the way, Katlette, what's the brand of that 'vegan' conditioner with the milk in it? You should totally complain!!

I tried my first SMT a couple days ago.

I used Alberto Balmsan Coconut (basically British version of Suave Tropical I think), some clear aloe vera gel (Holland and Barrett), and agave syrup as a vegan alternative to honey.

I mixed it a bit, put it in the microwave, mixed more - it was very curdled and sort of lumpy (rather than chunky), as bit like wall paper paste.

I applied it anyway because I thought it might still be okay and didn't want to waste my ingredients.

Applied it to wet hair, put shower cap on, wrapped in towel, went to bed. Didn't enjoy sleeping with it, I slept but the sleep was of a poor quality, having the gloop on my head kinda made my neck feel shivery and my head feel uncomfortable. I dunno - wouldn't sleep with it again.

Showered in the morning to rinse it out.

Result - hair does feel good and sleek. Went outside without wearing hair up and it had so much slip I didn't have the usual tangles to contend with. Don't know if this means it's coated a bit. Scalp hair feels clean (it isn't greasy) but it feels a bit weighed down, like it's going to get greasier earlier than usual. So far it's still feeling good though!

All in all, I do think it did some good but would rather try again with a different conditioner and not over night.

Katlette
April 30th, 2015, 04:33 AM
Follow-up on my SMT: my hair went curlier the next day! My natural slight wave pattern looked stronger, and there were even a few ends and bits near my face that were attempting spirals. I quite like that, but I don't know what that's a sign of. I think I'll do an SMT the night before if I'm planning on wearing my hair down.


I already posted this in deep conditioning but thought it might be better here.. by the way, Katlette, what's the brand of that 'vegan' conditioner with the milk in it? You should totally complain!!

I've just sent them an email! I checked their website and there it's just listed as vegetarian rather than vegan, so might just be that my batch was wrongly labeled, but still. Definitely not okay. Have to say, it did alert me to how much I trust what companies put on their labels.

ETA: I got a response about the conditioner. It is indeed vegan! They removed milk from the product but not from the ingredients list.

divinedobbie
April 30th, 2015, 09:47 PM
After trying four different variations of the SMT, I think my hair's just having none of the humectants and it's getting really rough.

gthlvrmx
April 30th, 2015, 09:56 PM
After trying four different variations of the SMT, I think my hair's just having none of the humectants and it's getting really rough.

Is it too dry in your area? What's the issue with the humectants? The good dew point temperature for humectants to work well is from 45-60F. If it's below that when you try the SMT, you could risk having moisture being sucked out of your hair. If you use a shower cap or stay in a steamy shower, there should be enough moisture for the humectants to work properly, especially if you do it when the dew point is just right for humectants.

divinedobbie
April 30th, 2015, 10:11 PM
Is it too dry in your area? What's the issue with the humectants? The good dew point temperature for humectants to work well is from 45-60F. If it's below that when you try the SMT, you could risk having moisture being sucked out of your hair. If you use a shower cap or stay in a steamy shower, there should be enough moisture for the humectants to work properly, especially if you do it when the dew point is just right for humectants.

The dew point always seems to hang around 20-30F here. I've tried both with a shower cap and steaming up a whole bathroom and sitting there in an hour and it still made my hair feel rough, especially when it was wet. When it dried, it felt fine, but I got more breakage than usual.

gthlvrmx
April 30th, 2015, 10:39 PM
The dew point always seems to hang around 20-30F here. I've tried both with a shower cap and steaming up a whole bathroom and sitting there in an hour and it still made my hair feel rough, especially when it was wet. When it dried, it felt fine, but I got more breakage than usual.

20-30 F is too dry for humectants then, maybe that's the reason why it's not working well. That's just the humectants part though. Have you looked into what conditioner you're using? Conditioners build up over time and maybe you need a good clarifying before trying the SMT. Have you tried a vinegar rinse right after you rinse out the SMT? I tried that and it made my hair softer.

Nadine <3
April 30th, 2015, 11:02 PM
The dew point always seems to hang around 20-30F here. I've tried both with a shower cap and steaming up a whole bathroom and sitting there in an hour and it still made my hair feel rough, especially when it was wet. When it dried, it felt fine, but I got more breakage than usual.

My hair reacted like that to aloe so now I use an oil in the mix instead. Usually a mix of coconut and olive. I get super soft hair this way, maybe try it? :)

divinedobbie
May 1st, 2015, 01:24 AM
My hair reacted like that to aloe so now I use an oil in the mix instead. Usually a mix of coconut and olive. I get super soft hair this way, maybe try it? :)

That sounds nice :) My hair thus far has always felt soft after oiling. The one thing it actually doesnt hate :rolleyes: Do you use conditioner, honey, and oil then?

meteor
May 1st, 2015, 02:44 PM
My hair reacted like that to aloe so now I use an oil in the mix instead. Usually a mix of coconut and olive. I get super soft hair this way, maybe try it? :)

I do this too. Love it! Sometimes, I'll add a bit of gelatin to the mix, as well, for a protein pack.
My main reasoning for doing it this way is because it's hard to find pure aloe (it needs to be stabilized in a commercial product and they all come with a bunch of additives) and the one from plant is kind of difficult to work with anyway.
Also humectants play nicely with occlusives like oils, and a good moisturizing treatment should have both, IMHO.

Arctic
May 1st, 2015, 02:50 PM
After trying four different variations of the SMT, I think my hair's just having none of the humectants and it's getting really rough.

Oh no :( I'm at my wits end, and can't figure out anything else to suggest :( Damp bunning maybe? My hair is always soft after that. We might have somewhat similar hairtypes statistically.

Sorry to push this, but a small trim would probably do wonders, as well as wearing it up.


ETA: One thing about aloe: My hair seems to be fine with it when the aloe gel is diluted, but not when I use it straight. I can mix it with conditioner, but it doesn't seem to do much. BUT, if I want to use it as is on my lenght, I dilute it with water first. It somehow becomes a completely different stuff! Makes my hair super moisturized and soft.

Nadine <3
May 1st, 2015, 04:22 PM
That sounds nice :) My hair thus far has always felt soft after oiling. The one thing it actually doesnt hate :rolleyes: Do you use conditioner, honey, and oil then?

Yup! I just heat up the oil in the microwave and stir it in to the conditioner and add honey. I don't heat up the honey when I do an SMT because I would love if it lightened my hair, but it that's something you want to avoid, go ahead and microwave it. :toast:

Glynis72
May 1st, 2015, 06:49 PM
I just did my first SMT last night. I used Mane N' Tail conditioner, local honey and Lily of the Desert aloe. I heated it baby bottle style and CO washed before applying. I was late getting home, so only sat about 40 mins. My hair feels amazing! This is my new favorite! I had some leftover so I washed my daughter's hair with it and the bath water made her skin so soft! Her 2c/F/i hair loved it. Easiest detangling for both of us!

rosalinda
May 6th, 2015, 02:19 PM
ETA: I got a response about the conditioner. It is indeed vegan! They removed milk from the product but not from the ingredients list.

Ah, well that's good! Well done for chasing up! Had they realised their error before you pointed it out?

Katlette
May 6th, 2015, 02:44 PM
Ah, well that's good! Well done for chasing up! Had they realised their error before you pointed it out?

Yes, they had. Their label printer had accidentally used the old ingredients list on the new bottles and a small batch of bottles made it out before they noticed, but no new bottles are being made with the wrong ingredients :)


I did another SMT last weekend. My hair colour needed some freshening up, so I replaced half the conditioner with some veggie dye. It worked really nicely! I think I might dye my hair like this more often.

Nebulae
May 6th, 2015, 03:00 PM
I did another SMT last weekend. My hair colour needed some freshening up, so I replaced half the conditioner with some veggie dye. It worked really nicely! I think I might dye my hair like this more often.

I had this idea not too long ago, and was thinking about asking on this thread if anyone had tried this. Good to hear it worked well for you, I will try it the next time I dye! :)

Saproxylic
May 10th, 2015, 01:04 PM
I did my first one today using Babe 100% aloe (which is anything but 100% aloe, has 3 cm long ingredient list including dimethicone but that's all I had at home in sample sized packets and dishing out 12 euros for a tube of aloe gel not knowing if this works was a bit steep) honey and my usual Mediceuticals Vitatin conditioner. Did not heat the whole mix in the microwave but instead warmed it up with hairdryer through plastic wrap once it was already in my hair, left for an hour. So far liking the results. Super smooth, a little bit weighted and super slippery hair, but I will give the final judgement after I see how it behaves after sleeping on it and out in the elements!

Madeleine13
May 31st, 2015, 10:21 AM
Has anyone done this and found it has actually helped their hair grow?

Ilenora
May 31st, 2015, 11:09 PM
I just did my first SMT and really like the results :) Soft shiny hair - it did not impart any extra slip or help my tangles though. I used Uni Organics cone- and sulphate-free conditioner, Mill Creek 99% aloe vera gel, and regular honey. I put it all in a bowl and put that bowl in a small pot filled with a little boiling water and stirred it to a smooth, rather wet consistency. I left it on for an hour and a half with a plastic bag on and a scarf over that. My hair felt veeeery sleek as I was rinsing it out but it dried to a light, fluffy texture.

How often should one do this? Monthly?

Anje
June 1st, 2015, 07:42 AM
Has anyone done this and found it has actually helped their hair grow?
Hair grows on its own. Treatments are just so it stays as nice as possible so you don't get mad at it and so it doesn't break off. ;)

I just did my first SMT and really like the results :) Soft shiny hair - it did not impart any extra slip or help my tangles though. I used Uni Organics cone- and sulphate-free conditioner, Mill Creek 99% aloe vera gel, and regular honey. I put it all in a bowl and put that bowl in a small pot filled with a little boiling water and stirred it to a smooth, rather wet consistency. I left it on for an hour and a half with a plastic bag on and a scarf over that. My hair felt veeeery sleek as I was rinsing it out but it dried to a light, fluffy texture.

How often should one do this? Monthly?
Glad you like the results, even if it doesn't give you the slip you hoped for. Maybe adding some protein would help in your case. I've had good luck occasionally adding a few ml of soy sauce (I'll bet tamari works too) to the smt mix. Also heard that some folks just like rinsing a bit of soy sauce dissolved in water through their hair and leaving it for a few minutes before rinsing it out.

How often? I wouldn't do more than weekly unless you're dealing with real dryness or protein overload. Otherwise, when it seems like it'd help/when the mood strikes. (You can tell I don't do this stuff on any sort of schedule!)

missrandie
June 1st, 2015, 12:17 PM
I finally bought the goods to do an SMT, and also a clarifying shampoo!

I have some Texas honey, and bought Lily of the Desert aloe Vera, and Suave Ocean Breeze conditioner. For my clarifier, I got Pantene clarifying shampoo.

Now, I will be able to "turn it off and back on again." :o

JustPam
June 4th, 2015, 09:09 AM
Oh I am well overdue one of these, I've hardly had any time to pamper myself lately. This weekend I think I'll indulge in a long bath with a cider and an SMT :D

missrandie
June 4th, 2015, 09:14 AM
I'm back to say that I am now an SMT believer! Holy happy hair, Batman! my little bent ends are no longer so bent, and it feels like I have, well, airy hair! it's floatingly soft.

cat11
June 6th, 2015, 06:14 AM
I did a somewhat modified SMT last night to balance my protein treatment with moisture. I used one packet of Hask Keratin Protein treatment, added some Biolage Hydrasource to it, plus aloe and agave nectar (what I use for the sugar portion in place of honey- keeps the mixture slippy too).. It turned out very well! It's also worth mentioning that I used ROO with sunflower oil before I did it after I clarified and sealed the ends with a couple drops when I was done. My hair just eats moisture, especially my damaged ends...

gthlvrmx
June 25th, 2015, 11:42 PM
What is the reason for heating up the mixture? Wouldn't the extra warmth of the mixture cause heat damage to the hair?

Arctic
June 26th, 2015, 02:03 AM
If it so hot you suspect it's damaging, then it's way too hot. If your skin says it's confortably warm, it shouldn't damage hair. Usually when people talk about heat damage, they have used heat styling tools, especially the iron types. Maybe someone can come up with a more precise temp that is considered safe (Meteor?).

The idea is to warm the mixture, I guess deep treatments are traditionally warmed up (or used under hooded dryer) to help with penetrating to the hair fibres or something. I have to say I don't know all the reasons. I never do it though, I think having the goop sit on my hair, in body temperature, under shower cap and beanie, will warm it up enough.

meteor
June 26th, 2015, 01:15 PM
What is the reason for heating up the mixture? Wouldn't the extra warmth of the mixture cause heat damage to the hair?

I think there are a couple of reasons for that:

1) To deactivate the peroxide in honey, to avoid potential hair lightening effect. (IMHO, it shouldn't be a huge concern, since honey contains only tiny amounts of peroxide, and unless you leave it on for a very long time, do it regularly and keep the pH range of the mixture appropriate, it probably won't lighten). More on honey lightening procedure and the recipes can be found here: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=148

2) To help the mixture penetrate the hair better. It's pretty clear that the warmer the mixture is, the faster it can spread and penetrate the hair.


If it so hot you suspect it's damaging, then it's way too hot. If your skin says it's confortably warm, it shouldn't damage hair. Usually when people talk about heat damage, they have used heat styling tools, especially the iron types. Maybe someone can come up with a more precise temp that is considered safe (Meteor?).


Don't know about masks/treatments, but for blow-drying, the studies I've looked at seem to point to 50℃ as a probable cut-off point for acceptable temperature, as far as I can tell...

For details, you could check out these studies:
A hysteresis in heat dried hair - by Crawford R., Robbins C. R., J. Soc. Cosmet. Chem., 32, 27 - 36 (Jan/Feb 1981) - http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc1...027-p00036.pdf
Their conclusion:
"Heat drying will increase the tendency of hair to acquire a static charge during combing and this charge buildup seems to be related to the heat drying hysteresis. Heat drying can also produce a short term decrease in fiber stiffness. This decrease in fiber stiffness is related to the action of heat on the fibers, but it is not related to the hysteresis. Heat drying at moderate temperature has no effect on the tensile properties, although small changes in the tensile properties were detected in hair dried at very high temperature."

Gamez-Garcia M. The cracking of human hair cuticles by cyclical thermal stresses. J Cosmet Sci. 1998;49:141 :
“In this figure it can be seen that temperatures lower than 50℃ do not increase the average number of cracks already present in unexposed hair, while temperatures higher than 95℃ lead rather to hair surface and bulk distortion. It is quite plausible, thus, that temperatures lower than 65℃ do not produce the critical rate of water evaporation needed for the top part of the cuticles to contract and become rigid, while temperatures higher than 85℃ might soften the cuticle proteins, releasing, thereby, the mechanical stresses by viscous flow.” - from p. 148 Journal of Cosmetic Science, http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc1...141-p00153.pdf


That's for blow-drying. I have no idea about hair treatments though. :hmm:

For example, I know that steamers are popular in hair care, but I've never seen any research to show that they are beneficial. :shrug: My guess is, if steaming hair has been a popular thing for generations, there might be something to it, but it could also be just placebo effect or a marketing trick to sell hair steamers.
Steamed hair does temporarily become softer (just like any steamed fiber - e.g. clothing - would), but whether or not it's a good thing for hair's integrity and overall quality in the long run... I really don't know. If somebody knows about this, please share with us. :flower:

floraflowerpowe
June 28th, 2015, 01:30 PM
I did this treatment today and it made my hair incredibly soft. I only used conditioner and honey and afterwards I put a few drops of grapeseed oil in my hair. I will do this more often for sure! It's even better than any regular hair mask :)

Dschineh
July 1st, 2015, 11:01 AM
Thank you so much for sharing this great recipe! I've already did this treatment several times now and every single time I'm surprised how shiny and soft my hair can be :)

missrandie
July 1st, 2015, 11:13 AM
I was going to use my new nukeable heating cap for this today, bit my hair just doesn't feel like it needs it yet. Oh well... good problem to have :)

JustPam
July 2nd, 2015, 03:31 AM
I used some of my leftover SMT from last time as normal conditioner last night, ends are a bit less brittle feeling than they have been recently :)

gthlvrmx
July 11th, 2015, 07:04 PM
If it so hot you suspect it's damaging, then it's way too hot. If your skin says it's confortably warm, it shouldn't damage hair. Usually when people talk about heat damage, they have used heat styling tools, especially the iron types. Maybe someone can come up with a more precise temp that is considered safe (Meteor?).

The idea is to warm the mixture, I guess deep treatments are traditionally warmed up (or used under hooded dryer) to help with penetrating to the hair fibres or something. I have to say I don't know all the reasons. I never do it though, I think having the goop sit on my hair, in body temperature, under shower cap and beanie, will warm it up enough.


I think there are a couple of reasons for that:

1) To deactivate the peroxide in honey, to avoid potential hair lightening effect. (IMHO, it shouldn't be a huge concern, since honey contains only tiny amounts of peroxide, and unless you leave it on for a very long time, do it regularly and keep the pH range of the mixture appropriate, it probably won't lighten). More on honey lightening procedure and the recipes can be found here: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=148

2) To help the mixture penetrate the hair better. It's pretty clear that the warmer the mixture is, the faster it can spread and penetrate the hair.



Don't know about masks/treatments, but for blow-drying, the studies I've looked at seem to point to 50℃ as a probable cut-off point for acceptable temperature, as far as I can tell...

For details, you could check out these studies:
A hysteresis in heat dried hair - by Crawford R., Robbins C. R., J. Soc. Cosmet. Chem., 32, 27 - 36 (Jan/Feb 1981) - http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc1...027-p00036.pdf
Their conclusion:
"Heat drying will increase the tendency of hair to acquire a static charge during combing and this charge buildup seems to be related to the heat drying hysteresis. Heat drying can also produce a short term decrease in fiber stiffness. This decrease in fiber stiffness is related to the action of heat on the fibers, but it is not related to the hysteresis. Heat drying at moderate temperature has no effect on the tensile properties, although small changes in the tensile properties were detected in hair dried at very high temperature."

Gamez-Garcia M. The cracking of human hair cuticles by cyclical thermal stresses. J Cosmet Sci. 1998;49:141 :
“In this figure it can be seen that temperatures lower than 50℃ do not increase the average number of cracks already present in unexposed hair, while temperatures higher than 95℃ lead rather to hair surface and bulk distortion. It is quite plausible, thus, that temperatures lower than 65℃ do not produce the critical rate of water evaporation needed for the top part of the cuticles to contract and become rigid, while temperatures higher than 85℃ might soften the cuticle proteins, releasing, thereby, the mechanical stresses by viscous flow.” - from p. 148 Journal of Cosmetic Science, http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc1...141-p00153.pdf


That's for blow-drying. I have no idea about hair treatments though. :hmm:

For example, I know that steamers are popular in hair care, but I've never seen any research to show that they are beneficial. :shrug: My guess is, if steaming hair has been a popular thing for generations, there might be something to it, but it could also be just placebo effect or a marketing trick to sell hair steamers.
Steamed hair does temporarily become softer (just like any steamed fiber - e.g. clothing - would), but whether or not it's a good thing for hair's integrity and overall quality in the long run... I really don't know. If somebody knows about this, please share with us. :flower:

Thank you guys! Good information. I heat my honey for around 35 seconds and then mix it with the aloe and conditioner. The honey comes out with bubbles straight from the microwave, so I know it's really hot but I don't use it on my hair until it cools down. I just thought of what happened recently. I opened the car door and sat inside after the car was sitting in the afternoon sun. I could smell burnt hair so I moved out of the car to wait for the car to let out the heat. If only I knew exactly how hot it was in there...I assumed my arm hair was the one that smelled like burnt hair and not the hair on my head.

I clarified and chelated my hair today so I have a SMT on my hair. I have never tried an SMT with freshly chelated hair so maybe it will feel different?

Tristania
July 11th, 2015, 07:08 PM
Well, this is quite possibly the best things I've discovered since wide-toothed combs and coconut oil. I'm officially addicted to SMT.

Kiiruna
July 13th, 2015, 02:34 AM
SMT addicted here too! I use it every now and then. It makes my hair feel so... well, moisturized and soft - however it doesn't make my ends any less tangly. Using a coneish conditioner after SMT makes my ends more slippery and easier to detangle.

Lolino
July 16th, 2015, 09:05 AM
My hair is sooo happy, I think I'm an addict too now. I can't seem to find plain aloe vera gel/juice here, but my conditioner has aloe vera juice as the top ingredient, so I'd say it evens things out. Honestly, my hair feels like it does when I use super-uber-coney serum on it but without the crunchy ends, I highly approve. A new SMT-worshipper has been born!

Arctic
July 16th, 2015, 09:11 AM
My hair is sooo happy, I think I'm an addict too now. I can't seem to find plain aloe vera gel/juice here, but my conditioner has aloe vera juice as the top ingredient, so I'd say it evens things out. Honestly, my hair feels like it does when I use super-uber-coney serum on it but without the crunchy ends, I highly approve. A new SMT-worshipper has been born!

To my understanding 100% aloe gel doesn't exist - other than right out of a plant. But aloe juices, those can be 100%, often meant for drinking. They go bad pretty soon though, but in my experience are much better moisturizers than comercial gels.

Lolino
July 16th, 2015, 10:03 AM
To my understanding 100% aloe gel doesn't exist - other than right out of a plant. But aloe juices, those can be 100%, often meant for drinking. They go bad pretty soon though, but in my experience are much better moisturizers than comercial gels.

Oh yes, I meant it's more, they seem to either come loaded into shampoo/lotion/etc. or the juice is full of sugar, conservatives and for some reason, grape flavour :D So it's been a bit tricky. I'm keeping an eye out though, because I had a bottle once and it was amazing for sunburns, but I lost it.

kidso
July 24th, 2015, 03:19 PM
I will try an SMT treatment for the first time tonight. I will use 4 parts conditioner (Mane & Tail), 1 part aloe gel, 1/2 part honey, and 1/2 part coconut oil. I plan on leaving it in overnight and will water rinse it out in the morning.

kidso
July 24th, 2015, 09:25 PM
I now have the SMT treatment on my head incubating under the shower cap. It felt so wonderful going into my hair, I hope it gives good results. I did have more hair shed than normal working the treatment into my scalp and gently combing it through with a wide tooth comb. Does anyone else notice a greater than average hair shed when working an SMT treatment into their hair?

Arctic
July 25th, 2015, 03:07 AM
I now have the SMT treatment on my head incubating under the shower cap. It felt so wonderful going into my hair, I hope it gives good results. I did have more hair shed than normal working the treatment into my scalp and gently combing it through with a wide tooth comb. Does anyone else notice a greater than average hair shed when working an SMT treatment into their hair?

It's not really meant to be put on your scalp, just like any other hair conditioning treatment wouldn't. Yes some people do apply to scalp too, but many find they get oily hair or worse, hair fall or irritated scalps if they would do that.

To answer your question, yes many people experience more shedding if they put things like conditioner or oil to their scalps. No-one really knows why.

-Fern
July 25th, 2015, 06:16 AM
I guess I'm a little bit late to give you advice on this, but I also would not leave it in overnight. 2 hours seems to be about perfect for me... more than that and it just gets harder to wash out. But, as always, YMMV.

kidso
July 25th, 2015, 07:29 AM
Just took a hot shower and thoroughly rinsed the SMT out of my hair. My initial evaluation is...OMG, my hair feels so soft and smooth! I took a wide toothed comb through it and only had a couple of sheds. I will let it air dry, brush it out, take a photo for comparison, and put it back up in a bun. Right now, I think I am a fan. The final determinant will be the after photo!

kidso
July 25th, 2015, 08:03 PM
Wore my hair in a LWB all day and it is still nice and soft. Am still well pleased with my SMT results. I will monitor my hair, but plan on doing another one in two weeks, minus the Fructis oil laden shampoo that my hair did not like.

gthlvrmx
July 25th, 2015, 08:10 PM
Just took a hot shower and thoroughly rinsed the SMT out of my hair. My initial evaluation is...OMG, my hair feels so soft and smooth! I took a wide toothed comb through it and only had a couple of sheds. I will let it air dry, brush it out, take a photo for comparison, and put it back up in a bun. Right now, I think I am a fan. The final determinant will be the after photo!

I am glad you liked your results! I love how soft my hair gets from SMT's.

excitedmom
July 26th, 2015, 01:27 AM
I was about to asl.. is fructis shampooo|conditioner ok for SMT or CO washes????
And is it ok to do just CO and not shampoo in general ??

Anje
July 26th, 2015, 08:11 AM
You'll want to use conditioner for this, not a 2-in-1 or anything like that.

It's definitely OK to CO and I usually consider an SMT to be a CO wash if I put it on my scalp.

Hope that helps.

diddiedaisy
July 29th, 2015, 11:15 AM
I've read quite a bit of this thread but I'm a bit confused about the honey. I have some cheap honey in the cupboard which isn't raw or organic. Can I use it? I looked in the supermarket today and all the jars just say honey on the ingredients list. I'm very confused and quite possibly stupid :/

meteor
July 29th, 2015, 11:24 AM
I've read quite a bit of this thread but I'm a bit confused about the honey. I have some cheap honey in the cupboard which isn't raw or organic. Can I use it? I looked in the supermarket today and all the jars just say honey on the ingredients list. I'm very confused and quite possibly stupid :/

Oh, please don't worry about it. :flower: Any honey is good for the SMT! :thumbsup:

It's different for honey lightening techniques, because for honey lightening, you preferably want raw honey with the highest peroxide level (to lighten hair). But for the SMT, you want the humectant action of honey, which comes from its sugar content, so any honey will do. Lots of people are allergic to honey or can't use honey because they are vegan, so they use things like corn syrups, other syrups, molasses, etc in their SMT, instead of honey. HTH! :flower:

diddiedaisy
July 29th, 2015, 11:37 AM
Oh, please don't worry about it. :flower: Any honey is good for the SMT! :thumbsup:

It's different for honey lightening techniques, because for honey lightening, you preferably want raw honey with the highest peroxide level (to lighten hair). But for the SMT, you want the humectant action of honey, which comes from its sugar content, so any honey will do. Lots of people are allergic to honey or can't use honey because they are vegan, so they use things like corn syrups, other syrups, molasses, etc in their SMT, instead of honey. HTH! :flower:

Thankyou for the super quick answer :)

scrivener827
July 30th, 2015, 10:21 AM
So I just did my first SMT, and overall my hair seems soft and healthy, but it is also a bit greasy/stringy and feels very heavy. I suspect it is either because I added a little coconut oil, or maybe I didn't rinse it out well enough. Or both. In any case, my ends look hydrated and happy, which was my main goal, so I think it'll all be good. Next time I will leave the oil out and maybe try a different conditioner. Has anyone else had their hair come out oily? Do you think an ACV rinse would help at all? Thanks!

ETA: After a few hours, much of the excess oil seems to have absorbed into my hair. It still seems a little stringier than normal, but it looks okay and does not feel so greasy to the touch anymore.

LongCurlyTress
July 31st, 2015, 05:26 PM
This is a fantastic summary of SMT how to do it and what to use! Thanks for posting this Anje! ;)

meteor
August 1st, 2015, 08:24 AM
Thankyou for the super quick answer :)

Diddiedaisy, you are very welcome! :flowers: I really hope SMT or modified SMT will work for you! :D


So I just did my first SMT, and overall my hair seems soft and healthy, but it is also a bit greasy/stringy and feels very heavy. I suspect it is either because I added a little coconut oil, or maybe I didn't rinse it out well enough. Or both. In any case, my ends look hydrated and happy, which was my main goal, so I think it'll all be good. Next time I will leave the oil out and maybe try a different conditioner. Has anyone else had their hair come out oily? Do you think an ACV rinse would help at all? Thanks!

ETA: After a few hours, much of the excess oil seems to have absorbed into my hair. It still seems a little stringier than normal, but it looks okay and does not feel so greasy to the touch anymore.

scrivener827, I had the same problem every time I combined oil and honey and didn't wash it out well. Oil + honey is best for very dry hair... or else, it's best to use it as a pre-poo and to wash it out pretty thoroughly. I'd do this rarely, as a moisture booster only, certainly not every wash. :) Don't worry, it will get less greasy soon as the effect wears off after every wash. :flower:

scrivener827
August 1st, 2015, 08:59 AM
Thanks, meteor. I figured in the future I will either leave the oil out or use it as a pre-poo treatment instead.

diddiedaisy
August 2nd, 2015, 12:40 PM
I did my first smt a couple of days ago. I used hello hydration and honey, I didn't have any aloe Vera gel but I had it on order. I didn't notice any difference to my hair, but now my aloes here I'll try again later in the week to see if I get better results.

excitedmom
August 5th, 2015, 10:53 AM
You'll want to use conditioner for this, not a 2-in-1 or anything like that.

It's definitely OK to CO and I usually consider an SMT to be a CO wash if I put it on my scalp.

Hope that helps.

Thanks !!

So ANY condish will work here? Dove, fructis, suave......

Madame J
August 5th, 2015, 11:07 AM
Thanks !!

So ANY condish will work here? Dove, fructis, suave......

Your mileage may vary. At the beginning of the thread, there is a list of conditioners that have been documented, either to work well for some people, or that have documented negative effects. Note that some conditioners appear in both lists. So what works for one person will not work for another, necessarily.

So, yes, you can try any conditioner you want for the conditioner portion of your SMT. But that is not a guarantee that it will be the best conditioner for you. If you have an issue, it's best to check out what issues people have had throughout the thread and see if maybe there's a way you could fix it (switch to 'cone-free, for example, or use a conditioner with a different consistency).

wilderwein
August 9th, 2015, 10:05 AM
Guys a quick question: can we use aloe Vera directly from the plant?

Anje
August 11th, 2015, 12:49 PM
Guys a quick question: can we use aloe Vera directly from the plant?
Sure. I haven't, but I've heard it works quite well.

meteor
August 11th, 2015, 01:08 PM
Guys a quick question: can we use aloe Vera directly from the plant?

Yes, you can do it, but don't be surprised if it turns sort of pink/brownish red, it's totally normal for aloe plant. :) And if you scrape off the gel too close to the plant's skin, you might get slight fibery bits with slightly different texture that can result in a bit of flakiness, so I would suggest not scraping too close to skin, just squeeze out the gel, if that makes sense. :flower: Commercial aloe gels, obviously, don't have this issue because of stabilization methods used.
Personally, I prefer using fresh plant gel on skin (since it's easy to wash off skin, regardless of any texture issues). :)

gthlvrmx
August 11th, 2015, 02:20 PM
Guys a quick question: can we use aloe Vera directly from the plant?

Yes. I use aloe Vera fresh from our plant and freeze the leftover. You have to use a blender to get the most of the pulp/gel of the plant. It turns into this liquidy thing that you can use for your hair.

wilderwein
August 11th, 2015, 03:01 PM
Yes, you can do it, but don't be surprisved if it turns sort of pink/brownish red, it's totally normal for aloe plant. :) And if you scrape off the gel too close to the plant's skin, you might get slight fibery bits with slightly different texture that can result in a bit of flakiness, so I would suggest not scraping too close to skin, just squeeze out the gel, if that makes sense. :flower: ..........


Yes. I use aloe Vera fresh from our plant and freeze the leftover. You have to use a blender to get the most of the pulp/gel of the plant. It turns into this liquidy thing that you can use for your hair.


Sure. I haven't, but I've heard it works quite well.

Oh thank you so much guys! I'll make sure to blend it well without the residues. I have many aloe Vera plants and Im in a mood to use them :lol:

pahbee
August 31st, 2015, 09:40 PM
Hey guys! I was recommended to do a SMT by this thread so I'm really happy so see this! :)

I have the Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly, and I saw this brand under both categories of "reported to work well" and "problematic". Has anyone used it with success?
The ingredients:
organic aloe vera barbadensis leaf juice (gel), carbomer (thickener), certified organic aloe vera juice (gel) concentrate, organic aloe vera barbadensis leaf polysaccharide (aloesorb tm) , tocopheryl acetate (vitamin e), retinyl palmitate (vitamin a), ascorbic acid (vitamin c), disodium EDTA (preservative), caprylyl glycol (emollient), penoxyethanol (preservative), sorbic acid (preservative)

I'm guessing that it doesn't matter if you use raw or regular grocery store bought honey right? ;)

Twinkletoes21
August 31st, 2015, 09:44 PM
I can't wait to try my very first SMT! I've been using henna (with lemon juice) for a year or two and my curly hair is very dry. I'll be following this thread for tips.

meteor
September 1st, 2015, 10:47 AM
Hey guys! I was recommended to do a SMT by this thread so I'm really happy so see this! :)

I have the Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly, and I saw this brand under both categories of "reported to work well" and "problematic". Has anyone used it with success?
The ingredients:
organic aloe vera barbadensis leaf juice (gel), carbomer (thickener), certified organic aloe vera juice (gel) concentrate, organic aloe vera barbadensis leaf polysaccharide (aloesorb tm) , tocopheryl acetate (vitamin e), retinyl palmitate (vitamin a), ascorbic acid (vitamin c), disodium EDTA (preservative), caprylyl glycol (emollient), penoxyethanol (preservative), sorbic acid (preservative)

I'm guessing that it doesn't matter if you use raw or regular grocery store bought honey right? ;)

That aloe product looks pretty good to me. :)
Yes, regular grocery honey works just fine, it's the humectant action of the honey that is useful in the SMT, so any honey and even things like syrups and molasses work well. Microwave it for a few seconds if you worry about the tiny amount of peroxide, present in raw honey (heat deactivates it).
(Raw honey is useful for honey lightening (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=148) though)

Arctic
September 2nd, 2015, 02:32 PM
Do you guys actually measure the ingredients? :D

I have to say I never have, I am by nature more of those "approxomately" types than "exactly" types, ha ha. The SMT always works never the less. Today I did a bit different mixture. It was same quantity (didn't measure) of honey/syrup and conditioner with a smidgen of shea butter and small squirt of aloe. I've never used both honey and syrup before at the same time, and never used so much honey/syrup in relation to conditioner and aloe. Aloe I usually don't use lot, or at all, probably less than in the original recipe when I do use it. I heated the honey and syrup, shea, until shea was melted. The added the other stuff.

Anyway, my hair came out extra super silky and nice feeling today! I had clarified before the SMT and then let the treatment sit for an hour under a shower cap.

I think I will continue in the future to ramp up the honey and/or syrup content in relations to other ingredients, I really liked it. BTW I remember someone sometime asked if using syrup in SMT is sticky in hair, but it isn't, when mixed with conditioner. Not even at higher quantity.

And shea, I love it! It's the only oil or butter I have ever tried that doesn't give me an instant acne, so even though I usually avoid all oils/butters probably 98% of the time, I occasionally brave to use shea. (It does give me acne on prolonged use, but rare, occasional uses have been fine for my skin, yay!)

DollyDagger
September 2nd, 2015, 02:39 PM
Do you guys actually measure the ingredients? :D I have to say I never have, I am by nature more of those "approxomately" types than "exactly" types, ha ha. The SMT always works never the less. Today I did a bit different mixture. It was same quantity (didn't measure) honey/syrup and conditioner with a smidgen of shea butter and squirt of aloe. I've never used both honey and syrup before, and never used so much in relation to conditioner and aloe. Aloe I usually don't use lot, probably less than in the original recipe. I heated the honey and syrup and shea, until shea was melted. The added the other stuff.

Anyway, my hair came out extra super silky and nice feeling today! I had clarified before the SMT and then let the treatment sit for an hour under shower cap.

I think I will in the future ramp up the honey and/or syrup content in relations to other ingredients, I really liked it. BTW I remember someone sometime asked if using syrup in SMT is sticky in hair, but it isn't, when mixed with conditioner. Not even on the higher quantity.

And shea, I love it! It's the only oil or butter I have ever tried that doesn't give me an instant acne, so even though I usually avoid all oils/butters probably 98% of the time, I occasionally brave to use shea. (It does give me acne on prolonged use, but rare, occasional uses have been fine for my skin, yay!)



Shea is amazing. It's actually been helping to fade some hypo pigmentation for me!
When you say syrup do you mean maple syrup? or corn syrup ...? or which?
Im glad it turned out so well for you! My last one with "yes to carrots" condish I didnt like the results much.
With SMT.. I do measure :) if Im doing my own concoction I just wing it.

Arctic
September 2nd, 2015, 02:50 PM
Dolly I used sugar beet syrup (the dark variety), that's a local syrup type here and most often used in Finland. (I also used Finnish brand of conditioner, I often don't bother to mention it as we only have handful of Finns here, and I am sure they have all heared my fav conditioner :D )

It'd be interesting to know how many actually do measure these ingredients!


Ooh, I didn't know shea could do that, pretty amazing! So many suffer from hyper pigmentation.

DollyDagger
September 2nd, 2015, 02:59 PM
Dolly I used sugar beet syrup (the dark variety), that's a local syrup type here and most often used in Finland. (I also used Finnish brand of conditioner, I often don't bother to mention it as we only have handful of Finns here, and I am sure they have all heared my fav conditioner :D )

It'd be interesting to know how many actually do measure these ingredients!


Ooh, I didn't know shea could do that, pretty amazing! So many suffer from hyper pigmentation.

Yes for me it heals up and fades red marks from after youve had a pimple.

Oh I see sugar beet syrup...gotcha thnx :)

maborosi
September 6th, 2015, 04:47 PM
Hey, SMT guys, do you all ever add SMT as the conditioner into a henna or cassia gloss? I'm doing a cassia treatment, love the strength, but the dryness can be a pain to deal with. I love SMT, so I thought I might use SMT instead of just conditioner in my recipe this time around and see how it goes.

Asha
September 7th, 2015, 12:27 PM
About to do my first smt! Maborosi I have often wondered the same thing but I also haven't read every page here.

Nebulae
September 7th, 2015, 12:39 PM
Hey, SMT guys, do you all ever add SMT as the conditioner into a henna or cassia gloss? I'm doing a cassia treatment, love the strength, but the dryness can be a pain to deal with. I love SMT, so I thought I might use SMT instead of just conditioner in my recipe this time around and see how it goes.

I have! Or more like I added cassia to my SMT :) it's been a real long time ago since I did but I really loved the results.

scrivener827
September 8th, 2015, 12:27 PM
Thanks for the idea! I have a bunch of cassia I bought to use in various quantities in henna strand tests, but didn't end up using it for my all over application since I went with one of Nightblooming's henna mixes that has cassia in it already. So I'm now sitting here with my hair all wrapped up in an SMT + cassia and a bit of oil. I'm planning on leaving it on for an hour or two as a pre-wash treatment. I'm interested to see whether I will notice any difference with the cassia added. I didn't use a ton. Maybe a tablespoon or so in the amount it took to saturate my fine textured, medium-thin, just past bra strap length hair.

Nebulae
September 9th, 2015, 11:50 PM
I remember now and I did 1 part cassia in my SMT. It's somewhere back in this thread. I had a much better result with the cassia than with the regular SMT. :) My hair gets weighed down easily so that is probably the explanation!

hinabelle
September 12th, 2015, 01:37 PM
Is microwaving the mix necessary for hair? I've basically been SMTing with each ingredient separate
rather than mixed, sans honey. But I have some honey finally, so I'm wondering if I don't microwave
the honey will it be too sticky? I don't microwave my aloe gel and it's fine.

Nebulae
September 13th, 2015, 01:58 AM
Is microwaving the mix necessary for hair? I've basically been SMTing with each ingredient separate
rather than mixed, sans honey. But I have some honey finally, so I'm wondering if I don't microwave
the honey will it be too sticky? I don't microwave my aloe gel and it's fine.

Microwaving the honey is just to kill the small amounts of peroxide that honey contains if you don't want to risk a lightening effect. I've done it both with and without heating the honey and never noticed a difference but others have seen a lightening effect from just that small amount, so as usual YMMV. Heating it also makes it easier to mix especially if you use a solid honey. I also think some people heat the entire mix because it's more pleasant to apply something warm/skin temp than cold to your head, and heat can help it sink in. :)

gthlvrmx
September 13th, 2015, 03:51 PM
Is microwaving the mix necessary for hair? I've basically been SMTing with each ingredient separate
rather than mixed, sans honey. But I have some honey finally, so I'm wondering if I don't microwave
the honey will it be too sticky? I don't microwave my aloe gel and it's fine.

It's not necessary if you don't mind the chance for the honey lightening effects. When honey is at colder temperatures, it gets thicker and not like liquid like when you microwave it or heat it up.

Mammasaurusrex
September 15th, 2015, 06:54 AM
Im going to do this later today for the first time. Im excited! Im going to use Aussie 3MM since thats what Ive got laying around. Do any of you use shampoo before you do this? Or is this in place of the shampoo?

liabobia
September 16th, 2015, 11:23 AM
Tried this with Sea Mineral treatment from OGX, plus a small amount of olive oil and it worked great! Did it again yesterday with Paul Mitchell The Detangler and it sucked and my hair is dry and knotty.

Pearly~91
September 20th, 2015, 08:12 PM
I just used this last night, and my hair is amazingly soft! I actually sorta used Ursula’s Mega-Moisturizing Oil-SMT-Aloe Wash, my only complaint is that I didn't make enough of the SMT in the first batch and had to stop and make more. It's been at least 2 years since the last time I tried it so I had forgotten how great it is. I'll have to remember to repeat sooner this time :D

Ava Ruu
September 21st, 2015, 02:08 PM
I tried this for the first time today. My hair has been tangling a lot lately and I hoped that this might help. Afterwards my hair was easy to comb through but right now it feels like the treatment was too heavy. My hair feels coated and kinds of damp even though it is (or should be) dry. My hair is also split into these little strands, like I had just combed it with a fine tooth comb.

I think that I'll need to find something lighter for the future.

Arctic
September 21st, 2015, 03:20 PM
Im going to do this later today for the first time. Im excited! Im going to use Aussie 3MM since thats what Ive got laying around. Do any of you use shampoo before you do this? Or is this in place of the shampoo?

I always shampoo first and don't put this treatment near my scalp (because my scalp is sensitive to conditioner).

meteor
September 22nd, 2015, 06:38 PM
I tried this for the first time today. My hair has been tangling a lot lately and I hoped that this might help. Afterwards my hair was easy to comb through but right now it feels like the treatment was too heavy. My hair feels coated and kinds of damp even though it is (or should be) dry. My hair is also split into these little strands, like I had just combed it with a fine tooth comb.

I think that I'll need to find something lighter for the future.

Maybe it's too heavy for you, or maybe you could work for you better applied before shampooing, as a pre-poo? :) Or you could experiment with using less honey or using a lighter conditioner, for example? :) It's a pretty intense moisturizing treatment, I find.

lunasea
September 22nd, 2015, 06:52 PM
I tried this for the first time today. My hair has been tangling a lot lately and I hoped that this might help. Afterwards my hair was easy to comb through but right now it feels like the treatment was too heavy. My hair feels coated and kinds of damp even though it is (or should be) dry. My hair is also split into these little strands, like I had just combed it with a fine tooth comb.

I think that I'll need to find something lighter for the future.

My hair does this if I don't get it all out.

Ava Ruu
September 23rd, 2015, 05:23 AM
Thanks for the suggestions, meteor and lunasea! I tried to rinse it out very well, but it is possible that there is something left. The pre-poo treatment sounds good. Maybe I could do that while in sauna? I wonder if the heat would affect it somehow.

Arctic
September 23rd, 2015, 08:58 AM
Thanks for the suggestions, meteor and lunasea! I tried to rinse it out very well, but it is possible that there is something left. The pre-poo treatment sounds good. Maybe I could do that while in sauna? I wonder if the heat would affect it somehow.

I often do my deep treatments as pre-poo, simply because it's easier for me not having to hop into the shower twice.

I think sauna would only be beneficial, deep treatments are often recommended to be used in warmth, be it a hooded drier, under showercap and beanie or towel turban, in steamy bathroom... so I bet sauna is perfect for this; just cover your hair with something so the heat isn't drying the SMT or harming your hair (depending how hot you like your sauna experiences, :D). SMT might start to drip more in the heat, but shower hats and covering your hair should help with it. Honey and aloe at least are great for skin too, so shouldn't be a problem if they melt.

meteor
September 23rd, 2015, 11:02 AM
^ I agree. :agree: I think especially steaming and wet saunas can make the treatment more effective, because it's rich in humectants (honey and aloe and probably some humectants in conditioner), which will help draw moisture and hold onto moisture from the air. If the sauna is dry, definitely cover the hair with a shower cap or two and towel to prevent drying out. :)
Applying heat to SMT made my hair feel noticeably softer but, I must admit, it was easier to end up with greasier hair, as well.

Arctic
September 23rd, 2015, 11:20 AM
Finnish saunas, especially the electric ones (versus wood burning types) tend to be rather dry.

lunasea
September 23rd, 2015, 10:03 PM
I always do SMT pre-poo, sorry I didn't mention that. I like the idea of a sauna with it. I usually warm it in the microwave for a bit and slap a shower cap on my head to keep it warm for as long as possible so I'm all for keeping it warm.

Ava Ruu
September 25th, 2015, 03:44 AM
Yes, the sauna I usually go to is rather dry, but not super hot, I think. It's good to know that you think that the heat might help. I think I need to experiment a bit with the ratios of the mixture, too.

hinabelle
September 25th, 2015, 06:51 PM
Nebulae and gthlvrmx, thank you much for your responses! I forgot I posted here,
so sorry for the late answer :p

Mammasaurusrex
September 28th, 2015, 01:24 PM
I did this treatment for the first time today! 1/4 of a cup of Aussie 3mm, 1/8 aloe vera (the clear kind) and 1/8 of honey. I heated it up in the microwave, applied it to freshly washed hair, and wrapped in a microfiber hair wrap for two hours. I rinsed it out thoroughly with water and finished it off with an acv rinse. My hair is still wet but feels so soft and Im not sure if its because I didnt rinse it out well enough or what. So far from what I can tell my hair feels clean and soft so Im happy! If I like the results I will make a blog post about it tonight. Question: Does anyone know if this helps aid in hair growth? Im going to continue doing it regardless of whether it helps hair growth but it might be a nice bonus if it did :)

meteor
September 28th, 2015, 01:54 PM
I did this treatment for the first time today! 1/4 of a cup of Aussie 3mm, 1/8 aloe vera (the clear kind) and 1/8 of honey. I heated it up in the microwave, applied it to freshly washed hair, and wrapped in a microfiber hair wrap for two hours. I rinsed it out thoroughly with water and finished it off with an acv rinse. My hair is still wet but feels so soft and Im not sure if its because I didnt rinse it out well enough or what. So far from what I can tell my hair feels clean and soft so Im happy! If I like the results I will make a blog post about it tonight. Question: Does anyone know if this helps aid in hair growth? Im going to continue doing it regardless of whether it helps hair growth but it might be a nice bonus if it did :)

Awesome results! :applause I think overall softness and increased moisture retention is what this treatment is famous for. :) And if at any point it becomes too much (e.g. increased greasiness or lankness), you can always do this less frequently. I don't think it's supposed to help with increased hair growth, but honey and aloe vera are excellent for promoting scalp health (which is important for healthy growth): honey has a mild anti-bacterial effect and both aloe and honey are good moisturizers and have anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidant properties.
On aloe vera: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14664546; https://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/aloe
On honey: http://www.esciencecentral.org/journals/honey-and-its-anti-inflammatory-anti-bacterial-and-anti-oxidant-2327-5146.1000132.pdf

LegoCaltrops
September 30th, 2015, 03:04 PM
I have a question - on the list of conditiiners, aloe gels etc, & tips, it says to avoid gels with alcohol in. Does that mean it's also a good idea to avoid conditioners with alcohol in as well? Only I've been looking through the list of recommended conditioners, and not many seem to be available easily in the UK. Of the ones that are, it looks like the current formulations /UK formulations contain ingredients that aren't recommended, eg the J/A/S/O/N Jojoba one has dimethicone & protein. A number of the Aubrey organics ones look ok but a lot have coconut alcohol as a primary ingredient.

I don't use silicones on my hair at all, which kind of cuts the options down.

So is it all just a bit trial & error? I think I've found a range of conditioners which may work, if natural alcohol isn't an issue.

meteor
September 30th, 2015, 03:23 PM
^ Hmm, "coconut alcohol as a primary ingredient" sounds a bit like it could be one of those fatty alcohols (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_alcohol), which are actually moisturizing (e.g. cetyl alcohol, stearyl alcohol..).

Could you please list the exact names of those ingredients? :) They might be perfectly good moisturizers.
But if it's the drying alcohol kind (usually listed as "alcohol denat.", "SD alcohol", "ethanol", "isopropyl", "methanol" or "ethyl alcohol"...) it should still be OK to use in small amounts in well-formulated formulas, because alcohol is used as a solvent, penetration-enhancing ingredient (for other, usually more emollient ingredients) and a preservative. Basically, it should be offset with enough emollient ingredients to be moisturizing, if the product is well-formulated.

Anje
September 30th, 2015, 03:23 PM
Some of the aloe gels we have around here have volatile alcohols like isopropyl alcohol in them -- it's cooling for sunburn, I suppose, but it's drying for hair. That's the sort of thing you want to avoid. Things like the cetearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol, and stearyl alcohol in conditioner aren't at all drying and are perfectly acceptable to use. I'm not 100% sure I know what the **** "coconut alcohol" is, probably lauryl alcohol, which I'd guess is a bit light on the conditioning but shouldn't be awful.

Silicones in the UK formulations of conditioners that aren't in the US formulations is a known issue, and a really stupid one if you ask me. I have several silicones I prefer to avoid, so it would drive me nuts.

Edana ni Emer
September 30th, 2015, 10:22 PM
Does anyone think that adding a tablespoon or so of apple cider vinegar might be good in this? Or would it be better to save that for a post-conditioning rinse?

Arctic
October 1st, 2015, 06:22 AM
Does anyone think that adding a tablespoon or so of apple cider vinegar might be good in this? Or would it be better to save that for a post-conditioning rinse?

I think you'll have to try it; some people for example leave their vinegar rinse on their hair with no ill effects. But I think you could try a smaller amounth of it, maybe half a tea spoon or even less (ofcourse depends too how big batch you are making). I used to use very strong vinegar pre-shampoo treatmetns and rinses, and my hair liked them. But these days (I have had a hair type change in between) my hair gets poofy and my wiry hairs get super wiry from strong rinses, so based on my own experiences this is something that is very individual and might be hair type related. I haven't tried vinegar on SMTs, but basically in theory it could work (though based on my other vinegar experiences I would fear it would make my own hair wirier feeling). I don't know much about hair porosity, but it's possible that if your hair is of less porous type, vinegar with its acid might prevent moisture and other goodies from entering your hair, maybe? If this would be the case, a final rinse might be better. On the other hand the conditioner itself you are going to use is most likely pH balance (=acidic on the same level hair itself is), so a) there is acidic components never the less and b) vinegar might not be needed.

LegoCaltrops
October 1st, 2015, 07:37 AM
I can't copy the ingredients list, for some reason... but the ones I'm referring to are cetyl alcohol (from coconuts), & alcohol denat. (38b, lavender). It also lists milk protein as an ingredient.

Other than that it looks really good. On another part of the website it explains about each ingredient. It says that they use the alcohol denat. as an antiseptic in preference to isopropyl alcohol, which is harsh & drying.

meteor
October 1st, 2015, 04:57 PM
Does anyone think that adding a tablespoon or so of apple cider vinegar might be good in this? Or would it be better to save that for a post-conditioning rinse?

I've done that with slightly unpredictable results - sometimes smoother hair, other times frizzier... I think it's because different conditioners have different pH. I agree with Arctic, you might need to experiment to see for yourself if you like it. :agree: A lot will depend on the kind of water where you live.


I can't copy the ingredients list, for some reason... but the ones I'm referring to are cetyl alcohol (from coconuts), & alcohol denat. (38b, lavender). It also lists milk protein as an ingredient.

Other than that it looks really good. On another part of the website it explains about each ingredient. It says that they use the alcohol denat. as an antiseptic in preference to isopropyl alcohol, which is harsh & drying.

cetyl alcohol - moisturizing
alcohol denat. - drying (but if it's listed low on the ingredients list and is also offset nicely with emollient, moisturizing ingredients like oils, if it's a well-formulated product, it should be OK).

Since we don't know the % of ingredients used, I think I'd just try the product and see if it agrees with your hair. But that's just me :lol: , I like experimenting. :stirpot:

Edana ni Emer
October 1st, 2015, 05:40 PM
Since I'm trying it with a new conditioner, I decided on just the standards. Sadly, it curdled. :-(

meteor
October 2nd, 2015, 10:15 AM
^ Hmm, I've had a few of my mixes curdle, as well (I think it was the aloe), but the treatment worked just fine. I'm not sure, but I think curdles shouldn't really affect the performance, should they? :hmm:

Anje
October 2nd, 2015, 11:32 AM
The curdles are a pain to rinse but I don't think they're bad otherwise.

I also suspect it's the aloe, and I think it MIGHT be that it gets too hot sometimes. I've had better luck adding it after I nuked the other ingredients and stirred them up a bit. I suppose I should test it directly sometime and nuke a bunch of aloe gel....

Alien Girl
October 8th, 2015, 03:49 PM
About to rinse out my SMT :) I have an aloe plant so I just gathered my own aloe gel. I mixed in the aloe AFTER heating the conditioner+honey. The consistency is funny :P Like sticky egg white!

Alien Girl
October 8th, 2015, 05:39 PM
Did a DIY protein treatment (egg, banana, oil, mayo) then SMT right after. My hair actually feels somewhat like human hair right now :3

I'm glad I have my own aloe plant so I can do SMT pretty much anytime. It was super easy to incorporate into hair.

gthlvrmx
October 8th, 2015, 06:41 PM
Did a DIY protein treatment (egg, banana, oil, mayo) then SMT right after. My hair actually feels somewhat like human hair right now :3

I'm glad I have my own aloe plant so I can do SMT pretty much anytime. It was super easy to incorporate into hair.

Having an aloe vera plant is nice. I get mine from my plant usually and put the gel/pulp into a blender so that I can use it on my hair. It turns into liquid after being blended.

Zesty
October 11th, 2015, 07:17 AM
I've got an SMT on my hair right now. My ends felt a little dry for my liking, though my hair overall was nice and tangle free. (Probably shouldn't mess with a good thing, but I haven't done a DT in a while.)

I ALWAYS get little white flecks in mine though. Maybe because I microwave the honey by itself first? I want to destroy its lightening properties but maybe it makes the mixture too hot. But I tried letting the microwaved honey cool down before mixing and microwaving again, and still. :shrug: And this happens with all kinds of conditioners, even though I'm careful not to use anything with protein or silicones.

meteor
October 11th, 2015, 07:42 AM
I ALWAYS get little white flecks in mine though. Maybe because I microwave the honey by itself first? I want to destroy its lightening properties but maybe it makes the mixture too hot. But I tried letting the microwaved honey cool down before mixing and microwaving again, and still. :shrug: And this happens with all kinds of conditioners, even though I'm careful not to use anything with protein or silicones.

I don't get white flecks stuck to hair when I skip aloe altogether. I think it could be the fibers in the fresh aloe gel from plants or some of the additives in commercial gels that might have something to do with it, maybe? :hmm:
I just use more honey and add a bit of oil to SMTs now to avoid texture issues. :)

Zesty
October 11th, 2015, 08:05 AM
I don't get white flecks stuck to hair when I skip aloe altogether. I think it could be the fibers in the fresh aloe gel from plants or some of the additives in commercial gels that might have something to do with it, maybe? :hmm:
I just use more honey and add a bit of oil to SMTs now to avoid texture issues. :)

I will definitely try honey only (maybe next weekend?) and see if that fixes the problem. And maybe add some oil in the future if that works out. Thanks!

Arctic
October 11th, 2015, 08:05 AM
I have never had flakes or any other unpleasantness issues.

I have always been using ESI brand aloe vera gel, (ESI Aloe Vera Pure Gel), and I think it could be added to the list of aloe gels reported good. (The next time I am buying aloe gel I am planning trying a different brand - I hope it will work as well as the trusted ESI.)

I also usually don't heat honey (or the mixture), and the few times I have heated the honey it's been on a double boiling method, not microwaving. I have used several different brands of honey over the years, all work the same (some are just easier to work with because they are more runny).

But most of the time I use syrup (from sugar beets, a dark type usually) instead of honey. Same wonderful results. The only difference is when it comes to scalp: honey would be more scalp friendly to me, than syrup, and since I like to apply my deep treaments higher up (although not on scalp), some of the mixture might get in touch with my skin. But yeah, most of the time syrup it is.

I have used numerous conditioners over the years too, and never ever had any kind of curdling (sp?) or flaking. I usually tend to buy silicone and protein free conditioners and am drawn to more "eco" type brands and Finnish brands, so they often are not something most of the members here have access to or use.

-Fern
October 11th, 2015, 10:04 AM
I only got the aloe curds once, from heating it in the microwave. They didn't do any harm, just annoying to wash out. But since then I don't heat the mixture at all... instead I heat a towel that I wrap around my bagged head (http://pad1.whstatic.com/images/thumb/6/6a/Recycle-Old-Plastic-Bags-Step-12Bullet2.jpg/670px-Recycle-Old-Plastic-Bags-Step-12Bullet2.jpg).

I use a kitchen hand towel, get it thoroughly wet and wring it out, then pop it in the microwave for about 1 minute. It will be *very* hot and steaming when you take it out. I unfold it to let the steam escape for about five to ten seconds before wrapping it on my head and securing the ends of the towel with a ponytail elastic. Once the towel cools, take it off and pop it in the microwave for another 20 to 30 seconds. Usually no need to re-wet it. Repeat as needed.

meteor
October 11th, 2015, 07:27 PM
I will definitely try honey only (maybe next weekend?) and see if that fixes the problem. And maybe add some oil in the future if that works out. Thanks!

Zesty, I really hope it works! :D I should mention that if you do add some oil, I'd err on the side of using too little rather than too much. :flower: Oil & honey combination is super-moisturizing and can give greasy results on hair that isn't really dry.
(For example, I like combining oil & honey when my hair is super-dry and I do it as a pre-poo, to make sure I really wash it out properly.)

missrandie
October 11th, 2015, 11:16 PM
My hair was feeling funky and dry at the ends, so I did my SMT today with my homemade microwaveable heat cap. I love that dang thing!

Hair now feels happy again, though I can tell that my ends still aren't entirely happy. Maybe Im just too used to fresh cut ends.

-Fern
November 27th, 2015, 10:39 AM
I never was into Black Friday, so I was planning on just staying home, knitting & watching a few DVD's... So no better time to do a DT! Making a modified SMT today with 4 parts conditioner, 2 parts honey, and a few drops of Samhain spell oil for aromatherapy.

Long_hair_bear
November 30th, 2015, 08:48 AM
SMT in! hopefully itll help with the knots...... :slap:

lillielil
November 30th, 2015, 02:59 PM
I'm thinking about giving this a try. Any particular warnings or modifications for oily hair? I did read through the thread but it is entirely possible that I missed something in nearly 2000 posts.

Arctic
November 30th, 2015, 03:09 PM
I'm thinking about giving this a try. Any particular warnings or modifications for oily hair? I did read through the thread but it is entirely possible that I missed something in nearly 2000 posts.

I have oily hair, and I like to do this as a pre-poo treatment (usually use a normal, rinse-out conditioner quickly after the shampoo). I also don't usually add any oils on the mix - it's not in the original recipe but many do add some oil. If I do add oils once in a blue moon, it just very little (shea butter, melted).

When I apply, I try to put it as high towards roots as possible, but so that it's not touching my scalp.

I never really measure the ingredients, nor heat the mixture. If I heat something, it would be honey/syrup and/or shea butter, if used. I would heat them in double boiling method to just warm enough that they become more liquid. I never heat other ingredients, the heat from my head is enough. And like I already hinted, I often switch the honey to syrup (sugar beet syrup, but all sugary ingredients work for this recipe).


Good luck - I've never had anything but good experiences with this one.

JadedByEntropy
December 6th, 2015, 12:55 PM
I have super dry hair and this worked for me. I didn't leave it on very long, and only had syrup to work with, but it did help. I laughed at myself the entire time, but i'm convinced. It still acts like its dry so i'll have to leave it longer, but its also not oily although i also had oils in it because i couldn't stand the thought of leaving it in my hair and had to shampoo xD

Sarahlabyrinth
December 6th, 2015, 12:59 PM
The last couple I did the mixture curdled. I used it anyway, but it was annoying. Is it because I heated the mix in the microwave?

How do I stop it curdling?

school of fish
December 6th, 2015, 03:24 PM
The last couple I did the mixture curdled. I used it anyway, but it was annoying. Is it because I heated the mix in the microwave?

How do I stop it curdling?

The only times I had any lumps/curdling issues with my smt were when I heated the honey and/or the aloe too much. I also had issues with the mix becoming too runny at the same time - runny and with curdled lumps... yes I still used it and it worked perfectly fine, just wasn't particularly *aesthetic*, haha!

What I do now that gives me consistent success is heat the honey in the microwave for 10sec, then mix in the aloe and microwave it another 10sec, then mix in the conditioner and call it good. I'm using the classic recipe and proportions - 4 parts conditioner, 1 part honey, 1 part aloe. No curdling ever since, good consistency, quick and reliable. I'm all about the quick and reliable with hair treatments ;)

Hope that helps!

Sarahlabyrinth
December 6th, 2015, 03:27 PM
The only times I had any lumps/curdling issues with my smt were when I heated the honey and/or the aloe too much. I also had issues with the mix becoming too runny at the same time - runny and with curdled lumps... yes I still used it and it worked perfectly fine, just wasn't particularly *aesthetic*, haha!

What I do now that gives me consistent success is heat the honey in the microwave for 10sec, then mix in the aloe and microwave it another 10sec, then mix in the conditioner and call it good. I'm using the classic recipe and proportions - 4 parts conditioner, 1 part honey, 1 part aloe. No curdling ever since, good consistency, quick and reliable. I'm all about the quick and reliable with hair treatments ;)

Hope that helps!

It does! I will write those steps down in my little hair recipe book ;) Thank you!

school of fish
December 6th, 2015, 03:39 PM
It does! I will write those steps down in my little hair recipe book ;) Thank you!

Wonderful! I have to say, I've watched your hair journey for a while and am quite in awe of your mane, it's amazing! It feels very strange to be offering advice to a longtime member who has such inspiration hair!

Sarahlabyrinth
December 6th, 2015, 03:43 PM
Wonderful! I have to say, I've watched your hair journey for a while and am quite in awe of your mane, it's amazing! It feels very strange to be offering advice to a longtime member who has such inspiration hair!

Gosh thanks! :) But there is so much amazing hair here and many people whose hair is just amazing. And your hair is the hair I can only dream of because I have always wanted dark sleek hair and mine won't - do that. We always want what we don't have.

school of fish
December 6th, 2015, 03:53 PM
Gosh thanks! :) But there is so much amazing hair here and many people whose hair is just amazing. And your hair is the hair I can only dream of because I have always wanted dark sleek hair and mine won't - do that. We always want what we don't have.

Oh goodness thank you - I actually always wanted hair just like Chaka Khan's but there's no way that's happening for me, haha!!

Agreed, there are many many inspirations on this forum and it's a pleasure to enjoy the variety :D

Sarahlabyrinth
December 21st, 2015, 12:32 PM
This does make my hair feel so lovely. So how often is it ok to do this? Would every 4 washes be too often? And would you use it on dirty hair or clean hair?

AnnaBell
December 21st, 2015, 10:25 PM
I just washed my hair, and then applied a SMT, so what do I do while I wait with SMT on my head? Visit this thread!

We were out of honey, so I used molasses. This'll be my first time subbing out honey, so we'll see how it goes.

school of fish
December 22nd, 2015, 10:22 AM
This does make my hair feel so lovely. So how often is it ok to do this? Would every 4 washes be too often? And would you use it on dirty hair or clean hair?

I'm a daily washer (s&c twice a week, co all the other days) and I do an SMT every week, no problems. I can do less often I'm sure but my hair really seems to benefit from consistency of routine, and I do my roots henna weekly anyway, so it's just convenient for me. Any more often I'm sure wouldn't take any hurt but would only get in the way of my life, haha!

I don't think every 4 washes should pose a problem for you - try it and see! If I understand correctly it's a lot easier to overload on protein than on moisture - I'm sure there are exceptions but for most part I think over-SMTing is more likely to just be ineffective rather than damaging :)

You can do it either on dirty or clean hair - try both ways and see what works best for you. There isn't one *right* way, but there might be one right way for *you* :) A great many of my own successful methods are focused on convenience as much as anything... ;) If it's convenient I'll do it, but if it's a pain in the @$$ I'll just end up resenting it - I'm too old to let my haircare take over my life, despite the volume of stuff I may write about it on this board ;)

morrigan*
December 23rd, 2015, 01:48 AM
:snip: I don't think every 4 washes should pose a problem for you - try it and see! If I understand correctly it's a lot easier to overload on protein than on moisture - I'm sure there are exceptions but for most part I think over-SMTing is more likely to just be ineffective rather than damaging :) :snip:

I'm such a exception, for me it's very easy to overload moisture, but not protein. I need to do regular protein treatments if not my hair is too lanky.

school of fish
December 23rd, 2015, 08:35 AM
I'm such a exception, for me it's very easy to overload moisture, but not protein. I need to do regular protein treatments if not my hair is too lanky.

Oh for sure, we're all different and there's no one treatment or product or method that will work for everyone :)

If only there was... it would all be so effortless! Haha!!

meteor
December 23rd, 2015, 08:59 AM
This does make my hair feel so lovely. So how often is it ok to do this? Would every 4 washes be too often? And would you use it on dirty hair or clean hair?

Sure, why not? :D I'd do the treatment your hair loves until the law of diminishing returns kicks in, then I'd rotate to something else....
Sometimes a moisture treatment like that can get counter-productive if over-used in the long run, but it's so easy to see the signs: e.g. lank, greasy-feeling hair with no volume or bounce... Then you can just temporarily rotate to something less moisturizing, maybe with proteins, panthenol and other "volumizing" ingredients. Easy fix. :)

morrigan*
December 23rd, 2015, 10:15 AM
Oh for sure, we're all different and there's no one treatment or product or method that will work for everyone :)

If only there was... it would all be so effortless! Haha!!

I know, it would be easy peasy eh :D

Also is good to keep in mind hair can change, especially if you experience hormonal change, or you grow out dyed hair. So some things might not work in long run.

khryz
December 26th, 2015, 02:09 AM
I'm sitting in my SMT now. I didn't look at the clock when I stepped out of the bathroom, I was more eager to run back to LHC :lol:

It's wash day, so I poo-ed, did a scalp pack treatment, and then SMT-ed. I think it's been 30 minutes, and it's dripping down my neck, so I'm not sure how long more I can sit in it. I'm using Lolane Natura Hair treatment. It's not technically a hair conditioner, I know, but I use it as one anyway and has worked well for me. I bought fresh aloe vera from the supermarket and used it, plus some raw honey that's been sitting around. I don't like eating honey, so why not wear it.

I got a curd-like texture after I heated it up 5 seconds in the microwave. But it was back to a nice smooth consistency when I stirred it again. Glided on really nicely. Will report how it works on my dry ends in a while! Doubt I can stand the dripping much longer.

Arctic
December 26th, 2015, 05:33 AM
I did a mini SMT yesterday, letting it sit for only about 5 minutes. I used syrup again, like I do most of the time (sugar beet syrup). Hair feels nice, after being clarified, rinced with acids (that doesn't sound right, lol!) and SMTed.

khryz
December 27th, 2015, 08:01 AM
I love the SMT treatment. I have to say though, my conditioner was already doing very well, so I'm not sure if it was the addition or aloe vera + honey, or just leaving it in longer than gave it the extra oomph. I still have very dry ends today, even though my hair smells really good. I'm thinking those ends probably need a protein treatment more than anything else.

Dixie Derelict
January 5th, 2016, 03:11 PM
Hmm. .. Are we still continuing this thread? Cause I'm a newbie who doesn't say much yet- but I definitely want to add my voice to the chorus of 'hallelujah 's!' for this amazing goo! It's easy to make, cheap to use, and makes your hair feel, look, and smell GREAT! Just needed to say that, before the thread goes. ..

Sarahlabyrinth
January 5th, 2016, 04:09 PM
Oh I don't think this thread will be going anywhere:) Yes, SMT's are great - my hair loves them. Oh, and DD, welcome to the LHC!

moontree
January 6th, 2016, 02:40 PM
I just tried my first SMT today and WOW I am a convert. My ends were looking thin and crunchy and snarly for the past few weeks and now they are, I don't know, defined yet fluffy.
I took a picture, I hope that is okay to post - I just love the results so much!

Before (3 days ago):

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/Keyake/0103161433_zpsztnaxt59.jpg

After!!
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/Keyake/2016-01-06_zpstocgtwdt.jpg

bunneh.
January 7th, 2016, 09:27 AM
Wow, moontree those are some amazing results! :D Your hair looks great!

Anje
January 7th, 2016, 10:53 AM
Pictures are great, moontree, and your results look fabulous!

papayatree
January 7th, 2016, 03:41 PM
Impressive Results Moontree The second one looks so much better than the first one.

Dixie Derelict
January 7th, 2016, 03:59 PM
Thank you! Your hair INSPIRES me: maybe, if I'm very diligent at following the good advice I find on LHC,I can have hair as lovely as yours some day! If I stay with it, I believe my healthy ,properly cared for hair, would look a great deal like yours!

Dixie Derelict
January 7th, 2016, 04:18 PM
I don't even know how to post properly yet! Lol I meant that last for Sarahlabyrinth,in particular.

Sarahlabyrinth
January 7th, 2016, 04:49 PM
Thank you! Your hair INSPIRES me: maybe, if I'm very diligent at following the good advice I find on LHC,I can have hair as lovely as yours some day! If I stay with it, I believe my healthy ,properly cared for hair, would look a great deal like yours!


I don't even know how to post properly yet! Lol I meant that last for Sarahlabyrinth,in particular.

Oh, thank you :) When I first joined here I used to wonder if I would ever get a glorious mane like so many on here. I am still working on it. You will, with patience, gentleness and enjoying your hair along the way.

moontree
January 7th, 2016, 09:34 PM
Thank you bunneh, Anje! I think I will be adding this to the rotation of things I can do for my hair. Thank you too papayatree, I was just lucky I had taken a picture so recently to compare.

Salwety
January 30th, 2016, 01:06 AM
I have a super dry hair. No matter how much products I use it is a matter of hours and it will vanish, even with the LOC method, it loses the softness and shine by day 2.
I have never added honey to my hair .... never ! I want to give this method a try. May be this week. Wish me luck :cool:

Salwety
January 30th, 2016, 01:07 AM
Sorry double post

Dommydomdom
February 6th, 2016, 07:27 AM
Hi all! Would like to try this sometime in the future, but I have some Qs (I apologize if they have been asked/answered in the past :flower: )

Would this mess with a WO routine? (i.e. would I have to start the process all over again and go through transition)

How would I go about making this treatment without conditioner?

Will doing a WO wash beforehand be enough to clean my hair as is suggested?

Thanks in advance!!!!! :toast:

spirals
March 5th, 2016, 10:55 PM
I thought I'd add my :twocents: to this old thread. I just did an SMT for the first time ever. Immediately after rinsing it felt so much better. I did it on dry hair for only 15 minutes (trying to get to bed at a decent hour). I couldn't find clear aloe at the store I was in and I don't keep honey on hand, so I opted for the generic of Banana Boat and glycerin. So I guess it's my version of SMT. I'm just happy it seems to have worked. I won't know until tomorrow morning how good it is. I'm going to let it dry overnight in a hair net.

Llama
April 24th, 2016, 03:00 PM
Anyone know how long SMT will keep? I have had mine in the fridge for about a month. Should I go ahead and make a new batch?

Sarahlabyrinth
April 24th, 2016, 03:02 PM
Anyone know how long SMT will keep? I have had mine in the fridge for about a month. Should I go ahead and make a new batch?

As long as it still looks and smells ok, I would use it.

Llama
April 24th, 2016, 03:14 PM
Thanks, Sarahlabyrinth :)

Horrorpops
April 25th, 2016, 08:55 AM
I normally try to do an SMT or coconut oiling once a week at least as a deep treatment. My hair goes through stages where one will give better results thannthe other, and then all of a sudden that reverses! :) at the moment I am doing a combination of both but I love how sweet smelling and soft SMTs make my hair.

Currently I've been leaving the aloe out and adding in a little cinnamon for the smell. It's just glorious and I swear works 100x better than expensive hair masks I used to buy.

samanthaa
April 25th, 2016, 02:18 PM
As long as it still looks and smells ok, I would use it.

Agreed. All three ingredients on their own should be stable. Honey never goes bad. Your conditioner probably won't go bad for a year or so (that's a conservative guess). Aloe vera definitely has the shortest shelf life, but I keep mine refrigerated at all times anyway since I have a brand without preservatives. It's been in the fridge since December, I think, and it's perfectly fine.

LongCurlyTress
April 28th, 2016, 10:28 AM
This technique looks so great... I should give it a try. ;)

Lavendersugar
April 29th, 2016, 09:44 AM
Going to give this a try soon. Looks like I will need to pick up some V05. Only have Suave and Pantene at the moment and Giovanni smooth as silk.
My hair is dying for moisture lately. Living in a dry area doesn't help.

Was thinking about clarifying then towel drying and applying the mixture. Anyone try this with good results?

Anje
April 29th, 2016, 02:49 PM
Going to give this a try soon. Looks like I will need to pick up some V05. Only have Suave and Pantene at the moment and Giovanni smooth as silk.
My hair is dying for moisture lately. Living in a dry area doesn't help.

Was thinking about clarifying then towel drying and applying the mixture. Anyone try this with good results?

I've done it with Suave with good success. (I keep trying all these fancy conditioners, and ultimately, I like my Suave!) And it should be good after clarifying, since you probably need a bit of extra moisture anyway. :D

Sarahlabyrinth
April 29th, 2016, 03:13 PM
I'm sitting here with the gloop on my washed hair right now :p

I always add a teaspoon of oil to mine, usually EVOO, but today I have chosen to use sweet almond oil.

I also did an overnight pree-poo heavy oiling with sweet almond oil as I haven't done one for a while. And I clarified my hair this morning.

Here's to nice hair for my monthly length shot later today :)

Lavendersugar
April 29th, 2016, 06:38 PM
I've done it with Suave with good success. (I keep trying all these fancy conditioners, and ultimately, I like my Suave!) And it should be good after clarifying, since you probably need a bit of extra moisture anyway. :D


Thank you, Good to know. In the past I've not really cared for VO5, hair feels coated. Now my hair loves it up some Suave. Think I will try this Sunday if we have nothing to do.

Horrorpops
April 30th, 2016, 09:28 AM
I've done it with Suave with good success. (I keep trying all these fancy conditioners, and ultimately, I like my Suave!) And it should be good after clarifying, since you probably need a bit of extra moisture anyway. :D

Yes second this I always try to do an SMT + oil after clarifying - it's the only thing that remotely helps reduce the dryness :o

truepeacenik
April 30th, 2016, 10:20 AM
Going to give this a try soon. Looks like I will need to pick up some V05. Only have Suave and Pantene at the moment and Giovanni smooth as silk.
My hair is dying for moisture lately. Living in a dry area doesn't help.

Was thinking about clarifying then towel drying and applying the mixture. Anyone try this with good results?

Suggestion from a former desert denizen, if you live where there isn't a lot of humidity, create some (steamy bathroom, hot tub area, what have you) or skip the honey.
Honey is a humectant; it takes moisture from one substance and moves it to a less moist substance. If the humidity is low, honey will move moisture from your hair to the air.

I would run a humidifier in the bathroom, use SMT while smoking in a hot bath.

Lavendersugar
May 1st, 2016, 10:09 PM
Suggestion from a former desert denizen, if you live where there isn't a lot of humidity, create some (steamy bathroom, hot tub area, what have you) or skip the honey.
Honey is a humectant; it takes moisture from one substance and moves it to a less moist substance. If the humidity is low, honey will move moisture from your hair to the air.

I would run a humidifier in the bathroom, use SMT while smoking in a hot bath.


Thank you ! I had plan to omit the honey because my hair does not like it. I wish I could create a steamy room but our bathroom does not have a door. Will see if can figure something else out. Maybe steam with a towel over my head and a sink.

Daydreamer.
May 3rd, 2016, 03:25 AM
Could you do the SMT without heating everything up? Also, can you use glycerin instead of honey?

Horrorpops
May 3rd, 2016, 05:29 AM
Could you do the SMT without heating everything up? Also, can you use glycerin instead of honey?

You sure can, I do without heating it all the time. I think heating it is meant to primarily stop the honey from reacting and producing hydrogen peroxide and causing hair lightening. I've never got any hair lightening or perceivable damage from an SMT so I don't bother.

As for glycerine I can't see why not but I've never done it.

Now I also have a question:
How long can you leave it on? I've never tried an overnight treatment but was wondering if anyone has tried this or has an experience with it? I've personally noticed more benefits from a 3+hr soak compared to a 30min soak so I was wondering if that correlation continues or whether there is a ceiling. Thanks! :o

Anje
May 3rd, 2016, 01:22 PM
Now I also have a question:
How long can you leave it on? I've never tried an overnight treatment but was wondering if anyone has tried this or has an experience with it? I've personally noticed more benefits from a 3+hr soak compared to a 30min soak so I was wondering if that correlation continues or whether there is a ceiling. Thanks! :o

I personally wouldn't leave it in that long. Then again, I also don't want to henna overnight. My scalp doesn't like being wet for terribly long, or it starts to feel weird, and I know I'd never be able to sleep with stuff on my head. I've done maybe an hour or so, before the drips got to me.

This is relevant reading, though: http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/10/deep-conditioning-effect-of-time-and.html

meteor
May 3rd, 2016, 01:45 PM
How long can you leave it on? I've never tried an overnight treatment but was wondering if anyone has tried this or has an experience with it? I've personally noticed more benefits from a 3+hr soak compared to a 30min soak so I was wondering if that correlation continues or whether there is a ceiling. Thanks! :o

That's such a great question. :D

And I agree with Anje on this. :agree: That Natural Haven Bloom post is great. :)

I know you mentioned that you notice more benefits from a 3+ hour soak, but is that benefit softness and malleability, or is it something else? :) I know I definitely get much softer hair with more plasticity from long conditioning soaks, but I'm not too sure if it's always necessarily a good thing due to nature of hair fiber. :hmm:
Generally speaking, I'm not into very long soaks for comfort reasons and also for scalp health and potential hygral fatigue concerns.
But I'd love to hear more opinions and experiences on this. :D

Some interesting articles on this:
Hair Swelling in Water: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2013/07/hair-swelling-in-water.html

Swollen hair has several problems. One is that swelling increases pressure and pressure tends to strain tissues. Strain after strain weakens hair over time. Swollen hair's increased girth means that the cuticles stand out - as though you glued tiny shingles on a balloon and then blew it up. That allows water into areas which should be protected by the cuticle. Swollen hair gains weight as well as girth. This causes it to either express its curliest version of itself if the curl is strong (then the curls lose definition to poufy frizz), or go limp when curls are present but not strong relative to the weight of the fiber+water.

Swelling and loss of proteins:
The area just beneath the hair's protective cuticle layers or "endocuticle" of hair may be the area most prone to swelling. It is also loaded with water-soluble, polar -therefore water-attracting- amino acids. It is covered by the membrane-like exocuticle and the sebum from your scalp, both of which provide water and chemical resistance, but both of which are also subject to chemical and physical degradation. In other words, when you get your hair wet, you lose amino acids (protein) from your hair.

Hair Shaft Damage from Heat and Drying Time of Hair Dryer: http://pmcc.web-t.cisti.nrc.ca/articlerender.cgi?accid=PMC3229938
Bulging in the intercellular lipid layers of the cell-membrane-complex from being water-logged: http://pmcc.web-t.cisti.nrc.ca/articlerender.cgi?accid=PMC3229938&rendertype=figure&id=F5

It took over 2 h to dry the hair tress completely under ambient conditions. The hair shaft swells when in contact with water, as does the delta-layer of the CMC. The delta-layer is the sole route through which water diffuses into hair, and so we speculate that the CMC could be damaged when it is in contact with water for prolonged periods. Longer contact with water might be more harmful to the CMC compared to temperature of hair drying.
[...]
It is conceivable that a long lasting wet stage is as harmful as a high drying temperature (and may be even more dangerous to the CMC).
Further evaluation about contact time with water or wet environment and hair damage is needed.

Anje
May 3rd, 2016, 02:14 PM
It is worth mentioning that one of the articles that Natural Haven Bloom post cited (the 1992 one) did indicate increasing cationic surfactant adsorption at lower pH for longer periods of time, though overall adsorption was lower at low pH than at high pH. Not that I suggest you deep condition at a high pH. It's more like adding vinegar to your treatment will decrease the effects, sort of thing.

Lavendersugar
May 3rd, 2016, 05:53 PM
That's such a great question. :D

And I agree with Anje on this. :agree: That Natural Haven Bloom post is great. :)

I know you mentioned that you notice more benefits from a 3+ hour soak, but is that benefit softness and malleability, or is it something else? :) I know I definitely get much softer hair with more plasticity from long conditioning soaks, but I'm not too sure if it's always necessarily a good thing due to nature of hair fiber. :hmm:
Generally speaking, I'm not into very long soaks for comfort reasons and also for scalp health and potential hygral fatigue concerns.
But I'd love to hear more opinions and experiences on this. :D

Some interesting articles on this:
Hair Swelling in Water: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2013/07/hair-swelling-in-water.html


Hair Shaft Damage from Heat and Drying Time of Hair Dryer: http://pmcc.web-t.cisti.nrc.ca/articlerender.cgi?accid=PMC3229938
Bulging in the intercellular lipid layers of the cell-membrane-complex from being water-logged: http://pmcc.web-t.cisti.nrc.ca/articlerender.cgi?accid=PMC3229938&rendertype=figure&id=F5

To go a bit off topic here but does that mean air drying is thought to be just as damaging as blow drying?
I know there was some study that found blow drying on low temp x amount of distance from hair was better than air drying. I just shrugged it off as it depending on what you do while blow drying. For example needing to use a brush or more products like heat protection.

To stay on topic, I am doing this treatment tomorrow as it is my clarifying day. I'm oddly excited as I dislike doing treatments.

Horrorpops
May 3rd, 2016, 07:58 PM
Oh thanks so much Anje and Meteor for your comprehensive answers! :o Thats good to know! Basically I am happy to sit with a deep conditioning treatment on my head for a few hours, but didn't want to go to the hassle of a longer soak if it wasn't beneficial to my hair at all! Especially because I've heard a few anecdotal tales of overnight conditionings being really good for dry hair etc, but I've never been able to find anything more concrete. And while I don't get any scalp itchies from a wet scalp the dripping and general mess is a bit of a hassle!

Meteor - exactly, the main benefits being more 'moisturised' softer hair - especially at the ends which tend to feel a little dry. That's a very good point, I hadn't considered the effects of prolonged water exposure and hair shaft swelling and the effects on the cuticles or protein loss!

Anje - that blog you've shared is great! That's exactly what I was wondering - if there was a plateau to absorption and/or the benefits of conditioner after a set period of time. Also it's interesting and good to know about the effects of pH. Give me a second: I just need to quickly go and add some oven cleaner to my conditioner :laugh: (kidding!!)
I've never experimented with vinegar etc because I still have memories from when I was little of my mum rinsing my hair with vinegar and trying to go to bed with that vinegary smell on my hair - it quite put me off the whole process!

Overall, I guess I might just stick with shorter soaks. You've saved me a lot of mess and hassle so many thanks to both of you! :flower:

meteor
May 4th, 2016, 09:27 AM
To go a bit off topic here but does that mean air drying is thought to be just as damaging as blow drying?
I know there was some study that found blow drying on low temp x amount of distance from hair was better than air drying. I just shrugged it off as it depending on what you do while blow drying. For example needing to use a brush or more products like heat protection.
Great question, Lavendersugar! :D
It's hard to tell whether it's as damaging, because the damage was seen on different layers:
- all blow-dried tresses showed cuticle damage (and the higher the heat and the shorter the distance, the more damaging it was)
- only air-dried tresses (took 2 hours in their study) showed Cell-Membrane-Complex damage (bulging)

The researchers did not originally set out to show water damage, they designed the study to show heat damage from blow-drying, the CMC damage finding was unexpected, and they mentioned that further studies would be needed. (Still waiting on that ;) )

And they didn't use brushes or heat protection. The hair was in separate tresses (*not* attached to scalp, which produces sebum to coat hair) and washed daily, so that's not exactly representative of how hair is washed/dried necessarily.

They used five test groups:

(a) no treatment,
(b) shampooing and drying without using a hair dryer (room temperature, 20℃),
(c) shampooing and drying with a hair dryer for 60 seconds at a distance of 15 cm (47℃),
(d) shampooing and drying with a hair dryer for 30 seconds at a distance of 10 cm (61℃), and
(e) shampooing and drying with a hair dryer for 15 seconds at a distance of 5 cm (95℃)

- (c), (d), (e) showed surface damage, lifting and cracking (Scanning Electron Microscopy).

- (d), (e) showed cuticle damage, punched out cuticles (Transmission Electron Microscopy).

- No group showed cortex damage (TEM).

- (b) showed CMC damage (lipid TEM).

- (b), (c), (d), (e) showed decreased moisture content (moisture content analysis).

- (b), (c), (d), (e) showed color changes (lightness) after 30 treatments, possibly indicating damage.

- (b), (e) showed color changes (lightness) after 10 treatments, possibly indicating damage.

As you can see, everything (except leaving tresses untreated, of course) provided some soft of issues:
- blow-drying: cuticle, surface damage (the higher the temperature and the shorter the distance, the more pronounced the damage),
- air-drying: damage to the CMC and color change (high heat had that effect, as well)
- all forms of drying reduced moisture content and displayed color change (toward lightness).

And notice, how even using higher heat from closer distance for *shorter* period of time still resulted in more damage (cuticle, surface damage and color changes) vs. lower heat at greater distances but used for *longer*. So heat and distance possibly trumped time of exposure to heat source in this case (unless they designed the study to stop using high heat earlier just because the hair would be dry faster anyway)? :hmm:

Full study: Hair Shaft Damage from Heat and Drying Time of Hair Dryer - http://pmcc.web-t.cisti.nrc.ca/articlerender.cgi?accid=PMC3229938

ETA: Oops, sorry for the long OT :oops: