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Wildcat Diva
August 22nd, 2013, 08:21 PM
Microwave the honey for about
25 seconds first, then let it cool. I add the aloe then
and warm it about 15 seconds more, then add the condish.

Temme
August 23rd, 2013, 03:42 PM
ejking2, that's interesting, I tried to research it but didn't find anything about protein integrity loss. I did find a lot saying that most conditioners don't really penetrate the hair, only coat it, so it doesn't help to leave it on for for than a few minutes. I don't think I'd make a whole moisturizing concoction and only leave it on for a few minutes though. I might go with 30. Thanks for the advice!

Temme
September 5th, 2013, 08:14 AM
So I did my first SMT a couple days ago. I really liked it. I followed the set proportions of conditioner, aloe, and honey. I used GVP Conditioning Balm, which is Sally's' knock-off version of Biolage Conditioning Balm. When I first put it in the microwave, I set it for 15 seconds because I wanted to play it safe and not end up with bleached hair. Well, it turned to the consistency of water. I had to mix up a whole 'nother SMT, and put it in for 10 seconds this time, which worked fine. I left it on for half an hour.

When my hair dried, it looked nice, but I wasn't really all that impressed. It still looked a little frizzy. But when I slept on it and combed it the next morning, it looked really good! I wore it down that day, and my hair didn't get frizzy! Usually my hair will look all nice in the morning and frizz out an hour into the day. It must be those humectants. It was also quite a bit shinier than usual. Overall, my hair hasn't looked this good and stayed this good throughout the day in a long time. I will be using this again.

maborosi
September 14th, 2013, 12:29 PM
I did my first SMT last night, not really sure of what to expect. I heated up my mix in the microwave for about 10 seconds, then applied it to freshly washed, very lightly conditioned hair. I cling wrapped it and left it on overnight.
I woke up and rinsed it out with cool water.

OMG. This is now going to be my new weekly deep conditioning treatment because WOW. My hair is soft, shiny shiny shiny, and full of life. Literally no tangles, and my hair is sleek and -gorgeous-!!

~maborosi~

cooklaezo13
September 15th, 2013, 07:13 PM
I like to use about a dime-sized amount of SMT in my hair as a leave-in. It controls frizz without weighing it down.

maborosi
September 17th, 2013, 10:58 PM
Does anyone here do full-head treatments often? I'm doing my second one in a few days because I was so happy with the results for my first one, it seems like my results stuck around but I'd love to surprise my DBF!! :)

The effect is definitely lasting- the initial crazy shine went away slightly after 2 days I'd say, but the softness and tangle-free effect has stayed strong.

~maborosi~

Crumpet
September 18th, 2013, 07:50 PM
I've been doing SMTs every week or two with no problems. See what your hair likes and go for it!

HintOfMint
September 19th, 2013, 10:10 PM
I had forgotten how great SMTs are! I did a modified one the other day (no aloe, and I add a touch of coconut oil), and day-um! My ends are ridiculously soft and my hair just feels... lush, for lack of a better term. Very soft and full.

I should add that I didn't really do this as a sit-around-the-house deep treatment, I used it the way I use regular conditioner.

TheLuckyLurker
September 30th, 2013, 03:19 PM
Okay, I have a couple questions. How much do I make? I want to be sure I have enough to do all my hair, so I don't think a few spoons would work. But I don't want to make too much either. I don't really like the heating-up step, so I'd probably skip that. And I'm going to substitute olive oil for the honey, since my hair doesn't like humectants. Since there'd be no honey and no heat, could I make a large 'master batch' and dip into it as needed?

Also, since this thread is so helpful and often-referenced, can I lobby for a mos to Sticky it? Or pin it, or however you make it so that it's always at the top?

Anje
October 1st, 2013, 08:19 AM
Okay, I have a couple questions. How much do I make? I want to be sure I have enough to do all my hair, so I don't think a few spoons would work.

Also, since this thread is so helpful and often-referenced, can I lobby for a mos to Sticky it? Or pin it, or however you make it so that it's always at the top?
Well, I've got some 2-Tbsp scoops that came with my cannister set that I tend to use as a unit. That gives about 3/4 cup, which is a bit much for my hair (especially if I'm starting with damp hair), but probably isn't bad for someone with a bit more thickness than me. It's a decent starting place, though there's nothing wrong with just eyeballing it, either.

With regards to stickies, I guess there was a bit of a sticky purge a while back. I wouldn't be opposed to it (or more likely, a stickied thread with links), but I'll bounce it off the other mods first, since I'm new to the green-name business.

HintOfMint
October 6th, 2013, 04:34 PM
Thought I'd share a tweak I made to my SMT, don't know if this has already been tried (the abbreviation for Apple Cider Vinegar is too short to show up in a thread search).

I omitted the aloe as always because my hair doesn't do well with it, and added a capful of ACV. It ended up being amazing! My hair has never ever been this soft in my life.

Khristopher
October 8th, 2013, 01:34 PM
I omitted the aloe as always because my hair doesn't do well with it, and added a capful of ACV. It ended up being amazing! My hair has never ever been this soft in my life.

ACV? Never thought that! But doesn't it make the SMT too liquid? I'll try it next time!

HintOfMint
October 8th, 2013, 01:58 PM
ACV? Never thought that! But doesn't it make the SMT too liquid? I'll try it next time!

No, I just add a capful or two which ends up being less than a teaspoon, so it doesn't make it runny at all. Of course this depends on how much conditioner and honey you use relative to the ACV. I also don't heat up the conditioner or honey so no part of it is really that liquidy.

ETA: I also apply my SMT as I would a regular conditioner, so this is in the shower after I've washed my hair. Then I do my bodywash and shave my legs to let it marinate as long as possible. Then I turn the water back on and rinse it out.

ErinLeigh
October 30th, 2013, 12:34 AM
I just tried this.
Used 1 part Fruit of the Earth Clear AVG., 1 part regular store bought honey, 4 parts Generic Biolage, dash of coconut oil, dash of olive oil.
Washed hair and rinsed 1 cap of white vinegar in 2 cups water, applied to wet hair (next time will remember to towel dry, not wring)
covered in shower cap and left on 2 hours.
rinsed well and bunned to dry.

my hair has been snapping off a lot due to a recent keratin treatment that FRIED my hair. I mean zig zag texture on many pieces type fried. I have protein overload. I can pull a test hair and it snaps instantly. I had to cut from almost BSL to CBL and will be maintaining for a year at this length until the damage is cut off.
Right now my hair feels a lot more moisturized so I plan on doing this weekly.
Will also be mixing coconut and olive oil as a pre poo once a week just for added protection. I am hoping to report back in a month with better hair. Wish me luck.

ErinLeigh
October 30th, 2013, 12:42 AM
i forgot to add i did not heat mixture. I do not think there is enough honey to lighten plus I read heating destroys the benefits of the honey. I mixed mine up in tupperware and brought it into shower to keep mess to a minimum.
the reason for the vinegar rinse was I have hard water and wanted hair clarified so the hair shaft could really absorb the ingredients and not have to fight to penetrate thru buildup. Since I will do this treatment weekly I will be clarifying weekly to I imagine. My results were too good to mess with the process :)

ErinLeigh
October 30th, 2013, 12:48 AM
Also, I noticed the heat from the shower was enough to gt my mix a good consistency . I mixed with a plastic teaspoon and the steam from my shower gave me a perfect batter to apply to hair. No curds or lumps. Hope this helps some who are having issue with clumping.

Wildcat Diva
October 30th, 2013, 06:57 AM
Thanks ErinLeigh. It sounds like you had a good experiment. I know that when I've had "the curds" or clumps, it didn't seem to have anything to do with stirring the mixture. The clumping is from some change in the conditioner that happens either when the mixture is heated or some other ingredient added to my mix. I've read others replies that it may be related to something in the conditioner that causes that reaction, emugulaters (sp?). Anyhow, it's great that your mix seemed to work perfectly.

slynr
October 30th, 2013, 07:18 AM
I always have problems with clumps no matter what conditioner I use. Wonder what I am doing wrong?

Wildcat Diva
October 30th, 2013, 08:13 AM
Is there something in your aloe vera, any added ingredient, a preservative maybe? Take out the aloe and mix everything else up first and see what happens.

Also I found one time that letting the honey and aloe cool first helped before adding conditioner, but maybe that was a coincidence.

slynr
October 30th, 2013, 08:16 AM
Thats a good idea Wildcat Diva. I am going to try some troubleshooting. I havent done a treatment in a while because its such a pain getting those little flecks out of my hair:)

Wildcat Diva
October 30th, 2013, 09:06 AM
Yeah I know. When it happened to me I just tried to rinse like the dickens, but it didn't really get them out. Just had to let the hair dry and then they came out all right with a little picking and fluffing. Not my hair's best moment.

suta
November 3rd, 2013, 12:55 AM
I'm new and am looking forward to trying this. Thanks for all the wonderful tips and I formation.

SouthernSweetie
November 6th, 2013, 05:32 PM
I'm planning to try this treatment very soon! I got the (clear) ;)Aloe Vera gel from CVS, and I hope my conditioner cooperates! I'll make sure I post my results afterward! Anyone tried this with Biotera Moisture Conditioner?
Thanks! ;)

IDreamOfGinger
November 7th, 2013, 12:37 PM
I tried this last night. I used Aussie Moist conditioner because I have 2 huge bottles I'm trying to use up, aloe vera juice instead of gel as I already had some, and honey. I left it in overnight after clarifying my hair and it feels so soft. It's amazing.

Becky9679
November 8th, 2013, 11:21 AM
For some reason which escapes me I've never attempted an SMT before. Henndigo tends to be my conditioning treatment but since that's only every 6 weeks I could probably use something in-between. I'm a CO washer and use aloe regularly so I have plenty of both to hand.

One question (though I'm sure this has been answered at some point in the past) - I'm a vegan so I can't use the honey. Does the treatment work well without it or is there something else that vegans should substitute?

Lyv
November 8th, 2013, 11:56 AM
For some reason which escapes me I've never attempted an SMT before. Henndigo tends to be my conditioning treatment but since that's only every 6 weeks I could probably use something in-between. I'm a CO washer and use aloe regularly so I have plenty of both to hand.

One question (though I'm sure this has been answered at some point in the past) - I'm a vegan so I can't use the honey. Does the treatment work well without it or is there something else that vegans should substitute?

I think I read once that someone replaced the honey with molasses. I've never done it but maybe it's worth looking into.

Anje
November 8th, 2013, 12:43 PM
For some reason which escapes me I've never attempted an SMT before. Henndigo tends to be my conditioning treatment but since that's only every 6 weeks I could probably use something in-between. I'm a CO washer and use aloe regularly so I have plenty of both to hand.

One question (though I'm sure this has been answered at some point in the past) - I'm a vegan so I can't use the honey. Does the treatment work well without it or is there something else that vegans should substitute?
I've taken to doing it with corn syrup, and it works just fine. No risk of it changing your hair color either.

DarkCurls
November 9th, 2013, 12:43 PM
Well, before yesterday I hadn't tried a "real" SMT. I'd only done it with conditioner + honey, and had ended up with sticky, not-really-mindblowing results. But I've had aloe gel on hand since I tried it while dealing with humidity this summer, I had honey on the shelf next to it, and I haven't had the time to do a single DT since I started classes so yesterday I thought, why not?

I put more than 1 part honey, and I added some almond oil and coconut oil. The texture was a bit lumpy but it was better after being warmed up a bit. Heated in the microwave, applied to dry hair, let sit for a couple hours, and rinsed out with water. My hair is amazingly soft today! It was an excellent detangler and I can't get over the feel of my hair right now.

I thought there was too much hype around this treatment... but actually, I really like it.

Becky9679
November 10th, 2013, 12:29 AM
Thanks Lyv and Anje, I will try one of those out asap!

r00ski
November 10th, 2013, 02:21 AM
Does applying the SMT with heat help?

And may I leave it in overnight for extra benefits or will that not make much difference?

swearnsue
November 11th, 2013, 07:16 PM
I finally tried this SMT thing after reading about it for 2 years. I mixed Suave coconut conditioner, some AO Honeysuckle Rose conditioner(just a bit), aloe vera gel, honey, and a bit of my hair oil mix (castor, rosemary, olive, clary sage).

I covered it with a grocery bag, a towel and warmed with a heating pad for an hour. I was surprised that it rinsed out and didn't need shampoo! My hair is still damp, but it sure smells good!

I'll know tomorrow what benefits, if any, I get from the SMT treatment.

SThr
November 14th, 2013, 09:33 PM
I did an SMT with Lily of the Desert Aloe Gel and had a horrible reaction to it. I did spot tests and it was the LitD Aloe that did it, it was the drinkable kind. I think it might have been the Potassium Sorbate they put in it to inhibit mold.

Magalo
November 15th, 2013, 08:33 AM
Ah! My aloe vera plant died last spring (rotten from the bottom, all the intact leaves fell out!) and I kept the gel (in the freezer) "just in case" I need it. Look like I found that to do with it. I'm gonna buy a cone-free conditionner today, and try this tomorrow.

I'm wondering, what the purpose of the honey in this recipe? I thought honey contains peroxide and will bleach/dry hair.

Anje
November 15th, 2013, 02:09 PM
The honey's hugely moisturizing as a humectant. IMO, it does way more than the aloe does in that regard. If you don't want to risk lightening, though, I've had good luck with a number of sugary syrups. Molasses, pancake syrup, corn syrup, and honey I can all personally vouch for. I know others have reported good luck with real maple syrup, but that's too precious around here to put on hair.

Magalo
November 15th, 2013, 05:09 PM
I have it on my head now. I did it with honey, I didn't know it was a humectant, I was just wondering why we should use honey. Aaah, maple syrup, I'm from Quebec where a lot of it is produced (my step dad has a couple of sugar maple trees and he makes some every year!), but I don't have any now... we're too far away from spring, ah! I already ate all of it. :) I'm definetly gonna try it with maple syrup next spring.

I'm not gonna keep it overnight... maybe an hour or two. I'll report with the result! My hair is totally protein overloaded now and it REALLY need moisture, hope it's gonna help!

Anje
November 15th, 2013, 05:45 PM
It should. I've used repeated SMTs to counter protein overload before, and it was effectively the only thing that worked. 30-60 minutes is about my limit for putting up with the sticky drips anyway, and I think you get most of your benefit within that period.

sourgrl
November 17th, 2013, 02:31 PM
A cold night at my son's football game sucked the moisture from my hair Friday so I decided to try my first SMT last night. Heated the honey in the microwave for 10 seconds, added the aloe, mixed, added the conditioner, mixed and applied. Bagged my head and applied heat using a heating pad for an hour. Jumped in the shower and shampooed, conditioned, and oiled as usual. Hair feels like new! Was a little concerned it wouldn't agree with my humectant phobic hair but it worked great. Only complaint I have is my own fault: I don't love the smell of the conditioner I used. I've been smelling it all day. Ugh!! Got to find a sent I love for my next SMT..

Dowzey
November 17th, 2013, 04:29 PM
I did this, but used the wrong aloe gel (FOTE). My hair is fine but my scalp is unhappy.

Anje
November 17th, 2013, 04:55 PM
FotE isn't generally seen as bad, though if your scalp has different ideas about any ingredient....

Wildcat Diva
November 17th, 2013, 06:13 PM
I think something in my Aloe gel mixed with the conditioner is the culprit for the curds. I think I have the wrong aloe, and since I have several different tubes laying around, it explains why I don't have this result every time, since I do not pay attention to which aloe I grab.

GRU
November 17th, 2013, 08:42 PM
I did this, but used the wrong aloe gel (FOTE). My hair is fine but my scalp is unhappy.

I use FotE every time with no problems at all... but it's the clear kind with the blue lid from the lotion shelving. They also make the green-colored kind from the sunburn / sunscreen shelving. That's the "wrong" kind (the green one).

Dowzey
November 18th, 2013, 02:21 AM
I use FotE every time with no problems at all... but it's the clear kind with the blue lid from the lotion shelving. They also make the green-colored kind from the sunburn / sunscreen shelving. That's the "wrong" kind (the green one).

I have the blue one but it still says it's for sunburn (amongst others). After i got painful bumps on my scalp I did research and I found some threads saying it could be the 'thriethanolamine'. Never had a reaction to normal aloe. I should have researched first before I put it on my head. But the weird pimple things should disappear soon and zijn i will try SMT again with different aloe.

Magalo
November 18th, 2013, 06:35 AM
So... I did two hours of SMT, and a 30 min with the leftovers the morning after, and wow!! I couldn't stop touching my braid tassel all day long, my ends are very damaged by heat and chemicals and they're usually so rough (like horse hair!!) and it was SOOOO soft! I can't believe it!! I'll definetly do this again. I can't wait to take a picture to compare to my dry/protein overloaded hair in my last length shot.

I used Tresemme Naturals conditionner (no cones), real aloe vera and regular honey. :)

GRU
November 18th, 2013, 08:36 PM
I have the blue one but it still says it's for sunburn (amongst others). After i got painful bumps on my scalp I did research and I found some threads saying it could be the 'thriethanolamine'. Never had a reaction to normal aloe. I should have researched first before I put it on my head. But the weird pimple things should disappear soon and zijn i will try SMT again with different aloe.

Just to be clear, this is the one you used and had a reaction to?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Fruit-Of-The-Earth-Aloe-Vera-Gel-12-oz/10314797

ludwig20
November 18th, 2013, 09:24 PM
I've heard that honey can lighten your hair. Has anyone experienced that with SMT?

tbonita
November 18th, 2013, 11:59 PM
I've heard that honey can lighten your hair. Has anyone experienced that with SMT?

I've done countless SMTs without heating it (said to kill the natural peroxide in the honey) with no lightening on my hennaed hair. I also throw some EVOO in there sometimes for super-softness :)

You can nuke it to be on the safe side!

Anje
November 19th, 2013, 08:27 AM
I've heard that honey can lighten your hair. Has anyone experienced that with SMT?
It takes quite a lot of honey to get that to a noticeable extent, in my understanding. As in, your solution has to be somewhere in the area of 75-90% honey, and that honey can't have been pasteurized. But as I've stated numerous times, I've had luck with a wide variety of sugary syrups, so you can always use something else if the possibility of lightening is unthinkable.

alishaxmarie
November 19th, 2013, 03:46 PM
So I did my first SMT yesterday (I let it sit all night) and my hair is still so soft! :) I also mixed up a batch for one of my roommates who I'm trying to brainwash, I mean teach about hair care so she can grow hers out healthier (her hair grows soso fast but her ends could use a little trimming). She rinsed first and her hair is thinner and finer than mine so she noticed the results first. She was really happy/excited about the softness and I guess the 'cones in her conditioner sealed her splits because she said she couldn't find a single one! I consider this mission a success, so maybe I've found someone to come over to the hairy side ;) haha.

Wildcat Diva
November 19th, 2013, 11:16 PM
I just checked my product hoard and apparently I bought a crap ton of that CVS aloe that is likely the curd culprit. One bottle is huge with a pump. Well, maybe it will soothe my skin this winter. It's not going in my hair, hummmmmph!

ludwig20
November 20th, 2013, 05:00 PM
Thank you for the responses, tbonita and anje! I used a bit of honey (heated for a few seconds) with Tresemme Naturals moisturizing conditioner. I should have left it on longer but my hair has more body and bounce. : )

SouthernSweetie
November 20th, 2013, 08:21 PM
I tried an SMT yesterday, and it made my hair soooo frizzy and dry!!! /: I used Mane&Tail Conditoner, Cloverleaf Honey, and Aloe(clear stuff with no additives except Vit D).
I have only used Mane&Tail a few times, and I'm beginning to think my hair hates protein, but then again maybe it was the honey. I left it on for about 2 hours without heat with a plastic bag tied on my head and my Turbie Twist on top of that. Idk what happened. Maybe I should try a different conditioner, or maybe no honey? Hmm. What do y'all think?
P.S.:: When I say frizzy and dry...I mean... badddd frizzy and my ends looked DEAD! :justy:

GRU
November 20th, 2013, 08:25 PM
I tried an SMT yesterday, and it made my hair soooo frizzy and dry!!! /: I used Mane&Tail Conditoner, Cloverleaf Honey, and Aloe(clear stuff with no additives except Vit D).
I have only used Mane&Tail a few times, and I'm beginning to think my hair hates protein, but then again maybe it was the honey. I left it on for about 2 hours without heat with a plastic bag tied on my head and my Turbie Twist on top of that. Idk what happened. Maybe I should try a different conditioner, or maybe no honey? Hmm. What do y'all think?
P.S.:: When I say frizzy and dry...I mean... badddd frizzy and my ends looked DEAD! :justy:

Dry and frizzy sounds like protein overload to me. Ditch the Mane & Tail for a while, and get a moisturizing conditioner and repeat the SMT.

SouthernSweetie
November 20th, 2013, 09:25 PM
I had a feeling one of the pro LHCer's would say that, but I wanted to make sure. Thanks for the input GRU. Tomorrow I will start experimenting with something different! Haha. :stirpot:

GRU
November 22nd, 2013, 10:20 AM
I had a feeling one of the pro LHCer's would say that, but I wanted to make sure. Thanks for the input GRU. Tomorrow I will start experimenting with something different! Haha. :stirpot:

Mane & Tail has a LONG reputation of causing protein build-up. I remember back in the early 90s when a hairdresser told me that over-use could make your hair brittle because of the extreme protein content.

MandyBeth
November 22nd, 2013, 11:01 AM
Yeah, I only used M&T on Minion for 3, maybe 4 uses? And her hair was BAD. I mean, breaking from being excessively stripped by dish soap, then allowed to mat up. And she's a 3C extreme curly. I just know the first 2 or 3 were good, the final one pushed her into protein overload. I tossed the conditioner when we moved since we'd cut off the extreme damage by then that needed a protein round every so often.

Dowzey
November 22nd, 2013, 02:42 PM
@GRU
Same brand, same colour, but its a squeeze bottle and looks a little different.

SouthernSweetie
November 22nd, 2013, 03:54 PM
Well, last night I did a CO-wash with just Dove conditioner and some aloe gel then I put a bunchhhh of just the intensive repair conditioner all over, wrapped my hair up in a plastic bag, wrapped my turbie twist on top of it, and left it over night. Let's just say I've gotten some improvement, but its still not the same. :hmm: Anyone think olive oil would do some good?

sourgrl
November 22nd, 2013, 04:41 PM
Southernsweetie, my hair hates suave conditioners. Picked some up a few weeks ago to use as the first conditioner in CWC and my hair rebelled. But used it in my first SMT and my hair loved it. If you havent already, check out the list at the very beginning of this thread of conditioners that are said to work well in a SMT.

alishaxmarie
November 22nd, 2013, 04:43 PM
I tried an SMT yesterday, and it made my hair soooo frizzy and dry!!! /: I used Mane&Tail Conditoner, Cloverleaf Honey, and Aloe(clear stuff with no additives except Vit D).
I have only used Mane&Tail a few times, and I'm beginning to think my hair hates protein, but then again maybe it was the honey. I left it on for about 2 hours without heat with a plastic bag tied on my head and my Turbie Twist on top of that. Idk what happened. Maybe I should try a different conditioner, or maybe no honey? Hmm. What do y'all think?
P.S.:: When I say frizzy and dry...I mean... badddd frizzy and my ends looked DEAD! :justy:

Did you apply to wet hair or dry hair? I've heard that a lot of Mane 'n Tail users suffer from protein buildup but when I checked the ingredients of my bottle, I see tons of humectants and a few oils. Can someone please list which are proteins? I even looked up a list of proteins and humectants on Curly Nikki (http://www.curlynikki.com/2009/01/proteins-humectants-and-conesoh-my.html).

GRU
November 22nd, 2013, 06:12 PM
Did you apply to wet hair or dry hair? I've heard that a lot of Mane 'n Tail users suffer from protein buildup but when I checked the ingredients of my bottle, I see tons of humectants and a few oils. Can someone please list which are proteins? I even looked up a list of proteins and humectants on Curly Nikki (http://www.curlynikki.com/2009/01/proteins-humectants-and-conesoh-my.html).

This is a pretty obvious one: Hydrolyzed Protein

SouthernSweetie
November 22nd, 2013, 06:59 PM
Sourgrl: That's funny that you said look at the list because I bought the Mane&Tail for that very reason. I had no idea it was going to react that way! I used Dove the second time (it has cones, which are said to not work as well) and it worked better! Haha. I plan to look for another one especially for SMT, but right this second I'm doing an olive oil treatment for the first time. Praying it works well!:pray:

alishaxmarie
November 24th, 2013, 12:18 AM
This is a pretty obvious one: Hydrolyzed Protein

On my bottle, the only hydrolyzed ingredient is hydrolyzed collagen which is listed as a humectant on the link I provided, not as a protein.

Anje
November 24th, 2013, 12:44 PM
Well, collagen's a protein. Not sure where the confusion lies. ?

GRU
November 25th, 2013, 07:08 AM
On my bottle, the only hydrolyzed ingredient is hydrolyzed collagen which is listed as a humectant on the link I provided, not as a protein.

The link you posted is an article that used info from this link (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/ingredients-commonly-found-in-hair-care-products) (you'll see the reference at the bottom of your linked article). When you go to the original source of the info, you'll see that "hydrolyzed collagen" is listed as BOTH a humectant and a protein. The article you posted is not a complete listing; I recommend replacing that link with the one I just posted, so you have a more accurate reference list.

Basically, hydrolyzed ANYthing in conditioner is a protein of some sort or another. Mane & Tail has been known to cause protein overload since at least the early 1990s, and while the formula may have been tweaked a bit here and there along the way, it still contains a significant amount of protein. It's not a bad product, just one that can cause problems for those whose hair is protein sensitive or prone to protein overload.

alishaxmarie
November 26th, 2013, 08:45 AM
The link you posted is an article that used info from this link (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/ingredients-commonly-found-in-hair-care-products) (you'll see the reference at the bottom of your linked article). When you go to the original source of the info, you'll see that "hydrolyzed collagen" is listed as BOTH a humectant and a protein. The article you posted is not a complete listing; I recommend replacing that link with the one I just posted, so you have a more accurate reference list.

Basically, hydrolyzed ANYthing in conditioner is a protein of some sort or another. Mane & Tail has been known to cause protein overload since at least the early 1990s, and while the formula may have been tweaked a bit here and there along the way, it still contains a significant amount of protein. It's not a bad product, just one that can cause problems for those whose hair is protein sensitive or prone to protein overload.

Thank you for understanding what I meant! I was wondering if it was classified as a humectant because the elasticity provided by collagen (all I could think of was botox so I considered colagen its own thing rather than a protein, prior to google at least). I knew a lot of people had protein issues with Mane 'n Tail but I was having trouble isolating the proteins in the ingredients since none were the proteins I was used to seeing (I always manage to find proteins clearly listed as such). As for the link, I must have never scrolled far enough to see the sources; I'm usually good with that kind of thing though. So far, I'm doing fine with the Mane 'n Tail, but are there proteins in the Suave Tropical Coconut that everyone seems to love so much for CO washing? I thought there was (and I've seen posts stating that there are indeed proteins in it) before I bought some but I think they changed the ingredients (or the way they listed them) since the last time I read them so I'm having an issue pinpointing the proteins (nothing is labeled as a protein or as being hydrolyzed, can "extracts" be proteins?).

Valkyriejae
November 26th, 2013, 12:59 PM
SMT newbie with an aloe question here!
I want to do an SMT, but the local stores do not seem to carry pure aloe - it's always *mostly* pure, but with some preservatives.
So, my question is - do any of you use like 98% pure aloe and if so, what other ingredients do you consider allowable?

Anje
November 26th, 2013, 03:01 PM
98% aloe is probably fine. The goal is generally to avoid the ones with painkillers in them like benzocaine, and the ones with alcohols (ethanol, isoproanol, etc) in them.

GRU
November 29th, 2013, 12:12 AM
So far, I'm doing fine with the Mane 'n Tail, but are there proteins in the Suave Tropical Coconut that everyone seems to love so much for CO washing? I thought there was (and I've seen posts stating that there are indeed proteins in it) before I bought some but I think they changed the ingredients (or the way they listed them) since the last time I read them so I'm having an issue pinpointing the proteins (nothing is labeled as a protein or as being hydrolyzed, can "extracts" be proteins?).

I took this ingredient list of the Suave Naturals Tropical Coconut, and the only protein I see is Silk Amino Acid:

Water (Aqua), Cetearyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Fragrance (Parfum), Distearyldimonium Chloride, Disodium EDTA, Glycerin, 2 Bromo 2 Nitropropane 3, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Propylene Glycol, Silk Amino Acid, Honey/Mel, Nettle (Urtica Dioica) Extract, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Extract, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Extract


That being said, I use SNTC almost exclusively with no protein build-up/overload issues. I'm going to guess that the protein content is relatively small, based on the fact that it's listed after preservatives (the "-olinone" items are both preservatives).

But everyone's hair reacts differently -- what works great for me won't necessarily work well for someone else, and someone else's Holy Grail Product might turn me into Medusa's uglier twin sister! :lol: The nice thing about Suave Naturals, if it doesn't work, you're not out much money, because the products are dirt-cheap! ;)

GRU
November 29th, 2013, 12:14 AM
SMT newbie with an aloe question here!
I want to do an SMT, but the local stores do not seem to carry pure aloe - it's always *mostly* pure, but with some preservatives.
So, my question is - do any of you use like 98% pure aloe and if so, what other ingredients do you consider allowable?

I'm with Anje on this -- you're fine with preservatives. Your aloe would get really nasty, really quickly if they didn't add some preservatives in the mix! shudder:

Anje
November 29th, 2013, 02:58 PM
That being said, I use SNTC almost exclusively with no protein build-up/overload issues. I'm going to guess that the protein content is relatively small, based on the fact that it's listed after preservatives (the "-olinone" items are both preservatives).

But everyone's hair reacts differently -- what works great for me won't necessarily work well for someone else, and someone else's Holy Grail Product might turn me into Medusa's uglier twin sister! :lol: The nice thing about Suave Naturals, if it doesn't work, you're not out much money, because the products are dirt-cheap! ;)
Isn't that the truth! I had to try the SNTC because it was so many people's holy grail CO product. I didn't even finish half a bottle of it before having nightmare protein buildup problems, to the extent where I could not detangle as fast as the tangles formed. (Took me at least a week and a useless trim before I figured out that it was extreme protein problems, too.)

So you live, learn, and eventually get that just because everyone else is raving about a product doesn't mean it will work for you. And the corollary, that just because you hate it doesn't mean it's universally bad.

Almendra
November 29th, 2013, 04:00 PM
I tried this the last week and it was pretty well. I mix two differents conditioners. Is that ok? . Both were the same brand (Argentinian) and have no cones and proteins.
These are the ingredients :

Biferdil Bio-moisturizing conditioner:
Water, Cetearyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Sodium PCA, Daucus Carota & Triticum Vulgare & Aesculus Hippocastanum & Fucus Vesiculosus, Sesamus Indicum Extracts, Fragance, Methyl Paraben, Propyl Paraben, Citric Acid, FD&C Yellow 6, D&C Red 33, Butyphenyl Methyl Propional.

Biferdil Vitamin Enriched Lighweight Conditioner:
Water, Cetearyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Fragance, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Tocopheryl Acetate, Panthenol, Citrid Acid.

What do you think?

Unfortunately, I don't know when I'm going to try it again since I use real aloe and my plant isn' too big now, I'm afraid to kill it :p I'm not sure ifI can get this in a can here.

GRU
November 29th, 2013, 04:51 PM
So you live, learn, and eventually get that just because everyone else is raving about a product doesn't mean it will work for you. And the corollary, that just because you hate it doesn't mean it's universally bad.

I wish more people would realize this, particularly the corollary. I can't say it enough here, and I don't think a week goes by that I don't say it in one thread or another: Everyone's hair and scalp are unique, and you'll never know until you try. Even "hair twins" can have completely different outcomes from the exact same products.

MandyBeth
November 29th, 2013, 09:53 PM
SNTC is great on both girlies here, but a diabolical nightmare on me.

Hair twin - I go by how your hair behaves, not looks. You can change the appearance easily enough, but if your hair hates any protein, you won't like a lookalike care if they can't get enough protein.

bunzfan
November 30th, 2013, 11:40 AM
I tried SMT twice it is just too heavy the day after my hair is all greasy and stringy so i gave up its a shame as so many love it, i have far better results with oil soaks.

sarahthegemini
November 30th, 2013, 01:06 PM
I never got super fantastic results, just okay results. It's not worth it for me.

running-girl
December 1st, 2013, 09:55 AM
I've been using this treatment for over a year and love the results1 I have learned to omit the aloe as that tends to make my hair crunchy. I also tend to pre-treat with almond oil on the bottom 3 inches of hair... end up with lots of softness!

TrapperCreekD
December 9th, 2013, 02:00 PM
A couple questions while I'm waiting for my FOTE aloe to arrive:

Has anyone used raw honey in their mixes? I'm a *little* worried about the stickiness. Also, can SMTs be used as a pre-'poo/wash, or would that totally defeat the purpose?

ErinLeigh
December 9th, 2013, 06:03 PM
A couple questions while I'm waiting for my FOTE aloe to arrive:

Has anyone used raw honey in their mixes? I'm a *little* worried about the stickiness. Also, can SMTs be used as a pre-'poo/wash, or would that totally defeat the purpose?

I have used store bought regular honey and used raw honey. Both work well. I was worried as well but once I mixed the raw with the conditioner the water in the conditioner seemed to make it a good consistancy.
I have had good results using Generic Biolage Hydrating Balm. Its nice and thick and seems to hold the honey well.
I do this in the shower. I pre mix in a tupperware and place lid on and bring into shower. I wash with Suave Daily clarify then step away from shower stream, towel blot hair and apply damp, put shower cap on and finish shower.. I leave on only 10 minutes and get excellent results.

ErinLeigh
December 9th, 2013, 06:06 PM
I have read of people using caramel treatments as pre poos often so I imagine the SMT would be a fine prepoo. Since shampoo can be drying it wouldn't hurt to have a good moisture base first.
I do it after shampoo however just so hair is moisturized and ready for sealing oil.

TrapperCreekD
December 12th, 2013, 06:41 PM
I use Suave DC, too. :) Can't wait for my aloe so I can try this! Yesterday was wash day so it'll be a few days before I can report back with my results.

tbonita
December 12th, 2013, 10:36 PM
I have used store bought regular honey and used raw honey. Both work well. I was worried as well but once I mixed the raw with the conditioner the water in the conditioner seemed to make it a good consistancy.
I have had good results using Generic Biolage Hydrating Balm. Its nice and thick and seems to hold the honey well.
I do this in the shower. I pre mix in a tupperware and place lid on and bring into shower. I wash with Suave Daily clarify then step away from shower stream, towel blot hair and apply damp, put shower cap on and finish shower.. I leave on only 10 minutes and get excellent results.

I looove the GVP balm in my SMTs!! And for many other reasons.. Haha. It's a great conditioner. My hair likes LOTS of honey in it :)

Almendra
December 13th, 2013, 07:18 AM
Is it bad if I left the treatment for more than 24 hours? Tomorrow is my wash day and I put the treatment today because my hair is too dry. I massage my scalp, wet my length (I put the treatment only there), bun it and put it in saran wrap.

tbonita
December 13th, 2013, 07:36 AM
Is it bad if I left the treatment for more than 24 hours? Tomorrow is my wash day and I put the treatment today because my hair is too dry. I massage my scalp, wet my length (I put the treatment only there), bun it and put it in saran wrap.
I know they say you can over-moisturize hair, but mine would be very happy if I did that! I think it'd only be a problem if you have real soft, mushy, protein-deficient hair in the first place. Normal to dry hair should be fine! I've left mine in for probably 18.

Almendra
December 13th, 2013, 10:24 AM
I know they say you can over-moisturize hair, but mine would be very happy if I did that! I think it'd only be a problem if you have real soft, mushy, protein-deficient hair in the first place. Normal to dry hair should be fine! I've left mine in for probably 18.

I always oiled a lot my hair and I usually didn't care much about product with proteins (I used it without problem). I clarify twice a month and it's seems ok. In the past month I've been feel my hair very week and crunchy, never thought it could be for the oils or proteins. Also, I recently read that coconut oil (which I use frecuently) can attach proteins I you use products with some of them.
I tried just for being bored the SMT and it work very well (only two hours in my hair).
Now I'm trying to avoid protein a little and I'm being careful with my oils, because I know that if my hair is really dry, oils cannot be very helpful... Am I right?

I did this strand test (http://www.examiner.com/article/stopping-hair-breakage-moisture-vs-protein-the-strand-test) to be sure... and according to this I need moisturize my hair :/
So... what do you think?

Anje
December 13th, 2013, 11:14 AM
Honestly, after a half hour or so, even with a warm treatment, you start to get into the point of diminishing returns. My scalp wouldn't be particularly happy about sitting damp for 24 hours anyway, so I wouldn't do it. YMMV.

ETA: Great discussion of this, with references. (http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/10/deep-conditioning-effect-of-time-and.html)

tbonita
December 13th, 2013, 01:56 PM
I always oiled a lot my hair and I usually didn't care much about product with proteins (I used it without problem). I clarify twice a month and it's seems ok. In the past month I've been feel my hair very week and crunchy, never thought it could be for the oils or proteins. Also, I recently read that coconut oil (which I use frecuently) can attach proteins I you use products with some of them.
I tried just for being bored the SMT and it work very well (only two hours in my hair).
Now I'm trying to avoid protein a little and I'm being careful with my oils, because I know that if my hair is really dry, oils cannot be very helpful... Am I right?

I did this strand test (http://www.examiner.com/article/stopping-hair-breakage-moisture-vs-protein-the-strand-test) to be sure... and according to this I need moisturize my hair :/
So... what do you think?
I can use all oils except coconut, which causes that weird protein thing in my hair. I created a thread on this last month how coconut oil was breaking my hair off! I couldn't believe it. But if you're really protein sensitive like I am other oils should be able to be used without a problem (jojoba, argan etc) and moisture (SMTs) is your best friend right now.

Almendra
December 14th, 2013, 10:39 AM
Finally I wash it out after a couple of hours. It's very hot in here, so I'm close to the fan all day, and even with the wrapped bun, I didn't want to the mix dry in my hair.
Anje thanks for the link, very interesting :)

Naiadryade
December 16th, 2013, 05:55 PM
I did my first real SMT last Wednesday! Well, with a couple tiny modifications... There were a few drops of coconut oil in it because I made it in a just-emptied jar of the stuff. I've found that it emulsifies well in my conditioner though. Also the (raw) honey I used has been infused with sage. I heated only the honey and coconut oil in a jar in a bowl of hot water, then added the AVG (Lily of the Desert) and conditioner (Shea Moisture Deep Treatment Masque). I also added about 1 part water to help it go a little farther because my hair is a crazy sponge.

I applied this after washing my hair, then sat in a 160-170 degree F sauna for about an hour--including breaks to go outside, for which I put a hat over my shower cap. Then I rinsed and rinsed and rinsed, and then I ended with a cold rinse. I went to bed with still-half-damp hair inside my sleep cap.

In the morning, my hair was quite soft, albeit a little tanglier than it usually is after a wash. It seemed *almost* sticky, so I wonder if it was the honey, though I did rinse a whole lot. Anyway, a light oiling made it a lot less tangly, and it was super soft and I was totally in love with the feeling of my hair that day--and for a couple days after.

I call that success!

biogirl87
December 16th, 2013, 06:40 PM
I always oiled a lot my hair and I usually didn't care much about product with proteins (I used it without problem). I clarify twice a month and it's seems ok. In the past month I've been feel my hair very week and crunchy, never thought it could be for the oils or proteins. Also, I recently read that coconut oil (which I use frecuently) can attach proteins I you use products with some of them.
I tried just for being bored the SMT and it work very well (only two hours in my hair).
Now I'm trying to avoid protein a little and I'm being careful with my oils, because I know that if my hair is really dry, oils cannot be very helpful... Am I right?

I did this strand test (http://www.examiner.com/article/stopping-hair-breakage-moisture-vs-protein-the-strand-test) to be sure... and according to this I need moisturize my hair :/
So... what do you think?Almendra, I would not rely on using a single strand of hair for this test. On a normal day, with normal routine, no single strand in your hair would be subjected to this much stress. It is better to use a lock of your hair (or at least the hairs that come out when you shower) for this. When I would a strand test using a single strand, it snaps almost immediately which would you to think that my hair has enough protein but it does fine with protein in shampoos and conditioners.

Naiadryade
December 16th, 2013, 08:20 PM
Almendra, I would not rely on using a single strand of hair for this test. On a normal day, with normal routine, no single strand in your hair would be subjected to this much stress. It is better to use a lock of your hair (or at least the hairs that come out when you shower) for this. When I would a strand test using a single strand, it snaps almost immediately which would you to think that my hair has enough protein but it does fine with protein in shampoos and conditioners.

I concur. You take a single stick--easy to snap in half with a flick of your wrist. Bundle it together with 20 similar sticks, though, and you're going to have a real hard time breaking them! Similar principle. spreading the burden of mechanical stress.

Almendra
December 17th, 2013, 06:14 AM
Almendra, I would not rely on using a single strand of hair for this test. On a normal day, with normal routine, no single strand in your hair would be subjected to this much stress. It is better to use a lock of your hair (or at least the hairs that come out when you shower) for this. When I would a strand test using a single strand, it snaps almost immediately which would you to think that my hair has enough protein but it does fine with protein in shampoos and conditioners.

Make sense, I'm going to try it this way :)

TrapperCreekD
December 18th, 2013, 12:48 PM
Fresh out of the shower and impatiently waiting for my hair to dry so I can see the results!

I clarified first since my hair was feeling a little off, gooped the SMT on my length and put it up (forgot the shower cap!) for ten minutes or so while I went about the rest of the shower routine, rinsed, blotted out excess water, and scrunched in some AVG.

I used V05's Kiwi Lime - I though I spotted a few white bits but ran the comb through it as I rinsed and didn't any afterward.

TrapperCreekD
December 18th, 2013, 07:50 PM
Hair's slightly damp in a few spots from being in a bun, but it feels as silky as an oil treatment, so first SMT was a success! :) Frizz wasn't gone but I think it made a dent in it - maybe I'll have better results leaving it in longer and regular washes instead of BS clarifying washes.

Is it just me or does anyone else's hair dry a little faster after doing a SMT?

moniquerenaud
December 23rd, 2013, 08:24 PM
So do i shampoo my hair first and then use it as I would a normal conditioner, or do I do it before shampooing and shampoo it out?

moniquerenaud
December 23rd, 2013, 08:28 PM
Also, since it says you apply the SMT to your scalp, will this make my hair greasy? I don't usually put conditioner on my scalp

biogirl87
December 23rd, 2013, 10:23 PM
So do i shampoo my hair first and then use it as I would a normal conditioner, or do I do it before shampooing and shampoo it out?Monique, I think most people usually do it before they wash their hair. I am not sure if they do it before shampooing or not.

Andeee
December 24th, 2013, 12:29 AM
Monique, I think most people usually do it before they wash their hair. I am not sure if they do it before shampooing or not.
I was under the impression that you wash your hair first. That's how I did it when I did it for the first time last week.

If you wash your hair after then your destroying all the moisture you just put in there, right?

Honey, aloe, and conditioner all are water soluble and rinse out really easily--just rinse a bit longer than you normally would with just conditioner. Also, it's fine to stay away from your scalp, that's how I'm trying to do it next time.

biogirl87
December 24th, 2013, 12:38 AM
I was under the impression that you wash your hair first. That's how I did it when I did it for the first time last week.

If you wash your hair after then your destroying all the moisture you just put in there, right?

Honey, aloe, and conditioner all are water soluble and rinse out really easily--just rinse a bit longer than you normally would with just conditioner. Also, it's fine to stay away from your scalp, that's how I'm trying to do it next time.Andeee, you may be right about this. I have not done SMT for my hair and I do not know if I will ever do it. With the number of hairs that come out in the shower when I am rinsing out the conditioner after shampoo and condition during my previous normal washes, I think SMT would lead to about an inch loss in thickness of my hair.

Andeee
December 24th, 2013, 01:06 AM
Andeee, you may be right about this. I have not done SMT for my hair and I do not know if I will ever do it. With the number of hairs that come out in the shower when I am rinsing out the conditioner after shampoo and condition during my previous normal washes, I think SMT would lead to about an inch loss in thickness of my hair.
Are you sure it's anything to worry about? Are you stretching washes at the moment? The way I see it, it's normal to lose about 50 to 70 strands a day or so. When you stretch washes and also don't brush loads the hairs that have naturally shed don't always fall out all the way until you wash your hair. This is normal and new hairs are coming in. The SMT just replaces your normal conditioning you'd be doing anyway and it's really gentle. It made my hair so soft and full and the curls and waves were really fat and pretty.

biogirl87
December 24th, 2013, 02:31 AM
Are you sure it's anything to worry about? Are you stretching washes at the moment? The way I see it, it's normal to lose about 50 to 70 strands a day or so. When you stretch washes and also don't brush loads the hairs that have naturally shed don't always fall out all the way until you wash your hair. This is normal and new hairs are coming in. The SMT just replaces your normal conditioning you'd be doing anyway and it's really gentle. It made my hair so soft and full and the curls and waves were really fat and pretty.Andeee, I am fairly sure. I am trying to keep my washes at no more often than every five days and would like to stretch them out to every seven days. I typically have 40-45 hairs come out in the shower when I am rinsing out shampoo and normally get about 85 hairs come out in the shower when I do the shampoo and condition (basically get almost the same number of hairs come out when I am rinsing out the conditioner as when I am rinsing out the shampoo) and this is after I brush my hair every morning and night, so the hairs that would normally come out during the day have a chance to do so. I really cannot afford to have more hairs come out in the shower than the number I currently have, so I tend to choose my washing method based on what is going to make the least number of hairs come out in the shower when I am washing my hair. It is kind of sad because when I typically use conditioner I get wavier hair, but the number of hairs that come out when I am conditioning my hair in the shower just freaks me enough that I am almost hesitate going back to using conditioning (since mineral oil does not seem to be helping the detangling process much). :(

Andeee
December 24th, 2013, 03:48 AM
Hmm. What if instead of conditioning while in the shower you applied conditioner (or even an SMT) to your wet freshly washed hair when you get out of the shower. Avoid the scalp, start it maybe an inch or two down. Then gently rinse under the tap without getting your scalp and roots wet again?

biogirl87
December 24th, 2013, 03:56 AM
Hmm. What if instead of conditioning while in the shower you applied conditioner (or even an SMT) to your wet freshly washed hair when you get out of the shower. Avoid the scalp, start it maybe an inch or two down. Then gently rinse under the tap without getting your scalp and roots wet again?Andee, thank you. I actually never put conditioner on my scalp even when I was using conditioning. I think the length of my hair loves moisture it gets from conditioner but does not love conditioner, if that makes sense. I have stopped using conditioner ever since I finished up the old bottles of conditioner I had (it has probably been about a month since I have stopped using conditioner) and a couple of weeks ago I went back to sulfates and I have yet to see any dryness in my hair (thought I try to put a little bit of mineral oil into my hair when it is damp to seal the moisture in). Part of me want to not go back to using conditioner just yet and see how long it takes for my hair to start feeling the need for conditioner. I remember when I was in my teenage years I rarely used conditioner and my hair seemed without it. I have a theory that the only people who need to condition their hair after shampooing are those who have high porosity hair or who have chemical damage in their hair. I think I have low to medium porosity hair.

Andeee
December 24th, 2013, 03:58 AM
That makes sense--I think I have high porosity hair--I hope you find a routine that works well for you!

biogirl87
December 24th, 2013, 04:04 AM
That makes sense--I think I have high porosity hair--I hope you find a routine that works well for you!Andeee, thank you. I hope I find a routine that works too. I think at some point if I decide to grow out my hair again I may try to stick to doing what I am doing now with my hair and see how long it will grow.

moniquerenaud
December 24th, 2013, 02:09 PM
So I did this with TREsemme naturals conditioner (cone free) and lily of the desert aloe an honey. My hair did not turn out anything special, in fact there's more fly always than normal. Thoughts?

Anje
December 24th, 2013, 02:53 PM
FWIW, I tend to use an SMT to replace a CO wash.

moniquerenaud
December 24th, 2013, 09:15 PM
Ok the day has gone by an I've decided I'm in love with SMT �� my hair is back to the silky smoothness it used to have when I used cones! Thank you snowy moon!!

Cederin
December 30th, 2013, 10:59 AM
I just did a very successful SMT! And also this is my first post here :)

I've been CO'ing since July but never got to try this treatment out since I never got my hands on aloe gel.
I used 4 parts conditioner (Mix between TRESemmé Naturals and a swedish brand with avocado oil, all cone-free)
One part of 99,6% Clear aloe gel (brand unknown)
One part of fair trade honey, a blend of honey collected from sunflower, wild eucalyptus and orange flowers.
+ about half a teaspoon of coconut oil wich my hair usually loves in treatments

I mixed all ingredients, microwaved it until it was warm (not hot), applied to wet hair that had been deep-cleansed
with shampoo after a hairdresser recently used cones in my hair. Left it on for 1 hour under a plastic bag.
When I rinsed my hair I felt on the top of my head where my fringe is was a bit over-conditioned (my fringe gets easily greasy)
so I applied my regular CO-wash and rinsed a long time. My hair felt very tangly when it was wet and I was afraid the treatment didn't work.
Now it has dried and it feels really smooth and soft, easy to comb, shiny and just lovely! Thanks Snowy for this great idea.

Nebulae
December 30th, 2013, 01:39 PM
So I tried the original SMT recipe a while ago but it was way too moisturizing for my hair. Personally I have better results mixing cassia into the SMT, about 1.5 parts is the most I've added yet. I mix the powder with water first, to make it muddy but quite solid. I did my cassia version a couple days ago, but I didn't get as much of a "cassia-effect" (more volume, and coarser feeling hair) to my hair as I have previously, so I will keep on tweaking the recipe to find the perfect balance. Next time I think I will try with 2 parts cassia and only 3 parts conditioner. Still using 1 part each of honey and aloe. I think I need to find the perfect time to leave it on for as well, I hope for 1 hour but maybe I need more..

ETA: Welcome/Välkommen, Cederin! :flower:

Marika
January 1st, 2014, 07:53 AM
Does it make a difference what kind of honey is used in SMT? I have quite thick organic honey at home but I'm wondering would 'basic' more processed honey actually work better.

ETA: Nevermind, I read some honey comments a couple of pages back. I guess it shouldn't make that much difference.

GRU
January 1st, 2014, 10:08 AM
I have quite thick organic honey at home but I'm wondering would 'basic' more processed honey actually work better.


Totally off topic to the SMT, but just wanted to point out that there technically is no such thing as "organic honey". Because bees forage for their food for miles away from their hive, there is no way to control what they have touched, so there is no way to guarantee that the bees didn't come into contact with any chemicals.

The only way to guarantee truly organic honey would be to have the bees confined to a greenhouse with a double or triple air lock to ensure that nothing from outside got in and vice versa, and even then I'm not sure how well the hive would survive.

I spent New Year's Eve with a friend who is a bee enthusiast, and somehow this exact topic came up in conversation last night! LOL


We now return you to your regularly scheduled SMT programming!

Andeee
January 1st, 2014, 10:13 AM
I guess I'd rather have honey from 'free range' bees rather than bees that have been locked up in an organic green house! :) I'm assuming people are referring to what I've seen labeled as 'raw honey' in the health food shops.

GRU
January 1st, 2014, 12:06 PM
I guess I'd rather have honey from 'free range' bees rather than bees that have been locked up in an organic green house! :) I'm assuming people are referring to what I've seen labeled as 'raw honey' in the health food shops.

Raw honey sounds about right. :)

My friend is a HUGE bee advocate (she gives informational seminars to school groups and Girl Scout troops and such, and she does "bee rescue missions" when people have a swarm on their property, etc.) and she's also an organic gardener (she has chickens to eat the bugs in the garden, and she has donkeys to protect her chickens from coyotes, etc.), and she gets SO protective over her "babies"!

We were talking about some processed cheese that my kid was eating (the kind that comes in a spray bottle) and how it said it was made with "real cheese" and we joked about how it was probably a single drop of "real cheese" in an entire can filled with chemical stuff, and that morphed right over into how most honey purchased in a grocery store isn't even actually honey and then that morphed right into "organic" honey labeling. I have to say, I learned more about bees in a 15-minute convo with my friend than I'd learned in 4+ decades of living on this planet! :lol:

WoolSweater
January 3rd, 2014, 06:11 PM
Maybe this has been addressed but I don't want to read 162 pages of commentary, but I am doing my first SMT and am losing a lot of hair! Is this normal? Hair was falling all over my counter top, floor and arms while I was trying to put plastic around my hair. I'm kind of nervous about how much I'll lose when washing this stuff out. Also, my first attempt curdled like mad when I heated it up a tiny bit, so I'm doing the treatment without warming it up. Is that going to dramatically alter my results or anything? Again, if this was addressed before, sorry, but don't want to read alll the pages. Thanks!

Anje
January 3rd, 2014, 08:38 PM
Some people shed a lot when they have conditioner on their scalps. I'd guess you're one of them. I wouldn't freak out (heck, I shed more, but still successfully CO washed for ages), but in the future you might be happier applying it to your length and mostly keeping it off your scalp.

Heating probably isn't going to make a big difference. It can speed the effects of conditioning when the stuff is warm, but you are welcome to adapt as you see fit.

Naturel
January 3rd, 2014, 09:53 PM
I will try this on my next wash, looking forward to it.

alexis917
January 5th, 2014, 05:48 PM
I avoided trying this with honey for so long because I was apprehensive about the possibility of lightening, but finally caved. No color difference, yay!
Also- success with VO5 Healthful Green Tea conditioner! I'd had clumps in the past from other VO5s (Shea Cashmere), so this was exciting!

Weewah
January 23rd, 2014, 06:37 AM
Ugh... Just did SMT for the first time and it left chunks behind in my hair. How should I go about getting them out of my hair? I'm tempted to grab the clarifying shampoo but maybe there's a better way? I tried to rinse as thoroughly as possible. I used eco bee farms raw honey, clear aloe gel from cvs, and VO5 Kiwi Lime.

GRU
January 23rd, 2014, 11:36 AM
Ugh... Just did SMT for the first time and it left chunks behind in my hair. How should I go about getting them out of my hair? I'm tempted to grab the clarifying shampoo but maybe there's a better way? I tried to rinse as thoroughly as possible. I used eco bee farms raw honey, clear aloe gel from cvs, and VO5 Kiwi Lime.

You should be able to CO-wash them out. Just brush or comb the conditioner and water through your hair to encourage the chunks to leave. (I dilute my conditioner and brush with a Tangle Teezer and it generates a decent amount of foam/suds... I think the presence of the bubbles helps to life debris up and away from the scalp so they are easier to rinse away.)

Wildcat Diva
January 25th, 2014, 06:49 PM
I had to let mine dry and then brush them out.

I'll reference again an apt IMessage screenshot from last year...
http://imageshack.us/a/img11/7302/f8h.png

Saryn Jumail
January 27th, 2014, 11:30 AM
Just did this with Shea Moisture Raw Shea Butter Restorative conditioner and it was pretty clumpy. The conditioner didn't want to blend in with the rest of the ingredients. But it all rinsed out fine.

ErinLeigh
January 27th, 2014, 03:15 PM
I have never had any clumping issues using the GVP Generic Biolage Conditioner. Something about the consistancy makes it perfect for SMTs. It glides right out of hair. Also mixes well with both raw and regular honey. I did have clumping using VO5 and other conditioners.
I now only use the generic Biolage for SMTs.

Wildcat Diva
January 28th, 2014, 10:06 PM
I think I might have conditioned (hahaha) myself to hate the smell of the VO5's free me freesia because of a horrifying SMT clumping incident. Now when I smell it, I cringe. It might have been some bogus aloe vera gel I had by mistake though!

cat11
January 31st, 2014, 01:11 PM
Just did my first SMT today using fruit of the earth aloe and Palmer's olive oil formula conditioner with honey. I microwaved for 15secs. I used a spoonful for each "part" and coated my hair with it exept for the roots after I cowashed, left for 30 mins and then rinsed with cool water.

Not completely dry yet, but so far so good! Roots are pretty much dry (always dry before my ends...I find this odd) and they arent greasy so i take that as a sign the treatment it going to turn out nice and moist without being too heavy. Ends are very clumped into curls/waves which is a good thing :)

edit: 7 hrs later its 85% dry and it looks really great and moisturized w/o crunch so I would definately add Palmers Olive Oil Formula to the list of good conditioners :)

Long_hair_bear
February 2nd, 2014, 08:43 PM
In the hubby and I's hair now with VO5 Strawberry. Results later!

cat11
February 3rd, 2014, 10:30 AM
I didn't heed everybody's advice enough about rinsing this really really well. Im so trained to barely rinse my regular conditioner I thought i should still "feel" this in there. After wearing for a day or so my hair was really greasy feeling and I had to wash it early because I hate feeling like I have extra conditioner in my hair. I'm 95% sure this was entirely my fault ...

so lesson learned: RINSE ALOT!!

cat11
February 3rd, 2014, 10:30 AM
double post. sorry.

redredrobin
February 4th, 2014, 04:47 AM
Can an SMT go on dry hair, and cover it up for warmth, before getting in the shower?
I'm currently using it as a prepoo while in the shower. (SMT on for as long as possible, shampoo, conditioner).
My hair feels a lot nicer afterwards, thanks so much to Snowymoon for the recipe :)

Long_hair_bear
February 4th, 2014, 09:32 AM
I used it on both my hubby and I's dry hair and it came out beautifully! :)

redredrobin
February 5th, 2014, 11:09 AM
I used it on both my hubby and I's dry hair and it came out beautifully! :)

Thanks. I can't be bothered to get in and out of the shower in winter time so will try this next time.

velorutionista
February 6th, 2014, 06:08 PM
I've got my first batch of SMT soaking into my hair now! Used Nature's Gate Awapuhi conditioner and Walgreen's aloe and it did get a bit clumpy when I heated it (the aloe has lots of other stuff in the ingredients list besides aloe gel...booo...but it's what I had!). Here's hoping it gets all the stupid winter static tamed down!

ETA:

OK, FWIW, I'm not a fan of the Walgreen's aloe gel...it clumped up when I rinsed the goo out, and my hair still smells strongly of it this morning (morning after the treatment). I left the treatment in for an hour last night and then rinsed it out and slept in a damp bun, and my hair feels kind of lightly crispy this morning.

milque
February 11th, 2014, 06:39 AM
I am going to try this for the first time with Green People Daily Aloe Conditioner after clarifying. Will post back with results! :D

ETA: Ok, I just did it. I clarified with Neutrogena Anti-Residue, then did the SMT for 2 hours with Green People condish, which doesn't have cones or protein. Results are not as great as I expect. In fact, my hair is kinda dry and frizzy, not moisturised as one would expect. The conditioner that I used was kinda runny, so maybe that's not moisturising enough?

Any thoughts?

bunzfan
February 18th, 2014, 08:54 AM
Ive tried this at least twice in the past and my hair felt very weighed down normally it can take any conditioner, so i'm wondering if my conditioner added to it is too thick is it better with a runny conditioner?? this time i watered my conditioner down as its very thick and im just putting it on the length previously put it on the scalp hair too.

My hair has gone very angry and snarly looking so clarified and will be leaving this on a hour (think i've be over doing the protein)

LMB
February 20th, 2014, 04:44 PM
I tried this tonight and had somewhat good results.
I have been occasionally using a honey shampoo from LUSH and noticed that my hair was lovely and soft when I used this so thought I'd give SMT a go.
I used a cone-free natural conditioner (natural something from Boots) Holland and Barrett pure Aloe gel and some manuka honey I had at home.
I did this at night on unwashed hair (I am a daily morning washer and i'm not a fan of experimenting with something before I have to go to work) so thought I would just try it out knowing I can wash in the morning if it went drastically wrong!
I got a good consistency and it felt nice on, had no problems with lumps, or curdling when I rinsed it out, although i didn't rinse as well as I should have and the hair at my neck feels a little coated, but that it to be expected, the rest of my hair feels nice and soft.

I already use aloe at the weekends when I do full CG, and obviously my hair seems to like the honey so I think that adding a few drops of honey to my CO at the weekends might work best for me but will do this as a nice treatment every so often.

LadyCelestina
March 4th, 2014, 07:51 AM
Anybody tried preparing the SMT mixture and storing it in the fridge?

VJG
March 19th, 2014, 01:12 PM
Along with coconut oil and sulfate-free-anything, I am going to have to add SMT to one of the many LHCer beloved tricks that my hair simply does not like. It gives me extremely crunchy ends each time I've tried it, no matter how much I rinse or what conditioner I use. Alas. Trying to baby my hair this morning resulted in needing to wash it all over again this afternoon, which was more counterproductive than anything else.

VJG
March 19th, 2014, 01:29 PM
Ive tried this at least twice in the past and my hair felt very weighed down normally it can take any conditioner, so i'm wondering if my conditioner added to it is too thick is it better with a runny conditioner?? this time i watered my conditioner down as its very thick and im just putting it on the length previously put it on the scalp hair too.

My hair has gone very angry and snarly looking so clarified and will be leaving this on a hour (think i've be over doing the protein)

I used Everyday Coconut today, which is very thin. Still wasn't a good match for my hair.

Anje
March 19th, 2014, 08:31 PM
Along with coconut oil and sulfate-free-anything, I am going to have to add SMT to one of the many LHCer beloved tricks that my hair simply does not like. It gives me extremely crunchy ends each time I've tried it, no matter how much I rinse or what conditioner I use. Alas. Trying to baby my hair this morning resulted in needing to wash it all over again this afternoon, which was more counterproductive than anything else.Sorry it's not working for you, though it definitely happens. The SMT is a humectant-heavy recipe, which isn't for everyone, even if it is a magic bullet for some of us.

By the way, don't let anyone tell you differently. I've kept up with several things that ate my hair alive because other LHCers loved it and swore up and down that it should work for everyone. It didn't end well. Listen to your body, your hair, and accept that it is going to assert its uniqueness occasionally. :)

alishaxmarie
March 20th, 2014, 10:13 AM
I have clear aloe that is Publix brand (it's a grocery store for those of you who don't have one nearby) and it's labeled as being soothing. I was mainly wondering about the alcohol it has since I'm pretty sure it's a very drying one, but here's all the ingredients:

Water, Alcohol Denat., Glycerin, Carbomer, Triethanolamine, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice Powder, Methylparaben, and Imidazolidinyl Urea.

Having typed that out I finally noticed that the aloe portion is made from a powder..! I find that extremely weird but this was the only clear aloe my mom found in the store and I certainly can't take it back now, nor do I sunburn (except on very very rare occasions) so it'll take me forever to use if it's a bad choice for SMT's :(

Anje
March 20th, 2014, 10:23 AM
I don't think I'd go for that one, Alishaxmarie.

Lydialove
March 24th, 2014, 03:11 PM
Since I have the house to myself for a couple of hours, I thought I'd go ahead and try my first SMT. Suave green apple, honey and aloe from the plant... since that's what I have on hand.

I don't know if my hair really needs a moisture treatment right now or not - but I want to do something nice for myself today. Here's hoping this actually turns out to be a nice thing!

Lydialove
March 25th, 2014, 12:54 AM
Well, it's certainly turned out soft and slippery! I think my hair will appreciate the occaisional SMT.

However, my head is wreathed in green apple stinkum. I like perfume but I'm picky about it and get a little headachy from some products. Looks like I'm going to have to find a fragrance-free conditioner to keep on hand.

It was pretty funny when my husband came home after I did the treatment. He walked up to me, stopped and looked confused, and then leaned forward to sniff my hair.

Irishrain
April 2nd, 2014, 12:12 PM
Herbal Essence Smooth collection conditioner went all clumpy on me with this treatment recipe. Maybe I missed that one on the 'bad' list. Back to the drawing board.

SunlightShines
April 6th, 2014, 07:30 AM
I'm giving this a try using Suave Rainforest Fresh, Clover Honey and fresh Aloe from my patio garden. It mixed together smoothly, but as I'm sitting here I can feel it (kind of watery) dripping out the back of the turbie and running down my neck. Hopefully this will help my dry hair. Every since I did a protein treatment a couple of weeks ago my hair has been feeling really thirsty. So far nothing has enough moisture to last all day. It will start out feeling great but by the end of the day it's crunchy again.

SunlightShines
April 6th, 2014, 10:35 AM
I think I messed it up by not clarifying first. My hair felt even worse after rinsing it out. It was like straw and I shed double the amount I normally do. So, I did a clarifying shampoo and my normal deep conditioner and letting it have a rest. I'll have to try this again another weekend after I've gotten my hair back to normal. Maybe I've been oiling too much or the Rosemary rinses aren't agreeing with it.

eva888
April 23rd, 2014, 09:09 AM
Okay so I just did my first SMT: Urtekram Aloe Vera Conditioner (Danish organic), Aloe Vera 99 gel, & organic honey.

I did it after an oil pre-poo, clarifying shampoo, then protein treatment. A lot of stuff for one day but my hair needed it! Putting this stuff on it didn't feel that great. Maybe worse than my regular conditioner. Even when I was rinsing it out my hair felt stiff and all tangled, but then I grabbed maybe a tablespoon of conditioner to CO and VOILA! my hair felt like magic! The rest of my rinse my hair felt so silky it was like there was not even touching my hands. Wow!

I will definitely be doing this twice a week or as needed. Even where my previous bleachings destroyed my hair along my hairline it is feeling amazing - like real hair! I might post a picture if the difference is really obvious, but it feels like I have a new head of hair! So happy! :)

meteor
April 23rd, 2014, 11:31 AM
Wow, that's great, Eva888! :D I'm glad this hair pampering session resulted in awesome hair!
Oil pre-poo, clarifying shampoo, protein treatment, SMT sounds like a lot of work, but it's totally worth it for bleached and wavy hair, which tends to do really well with deep treatments!

milque
April 28th, 2014, 01:27 PM
I tried it again with a "good" conditioner - Matrix Biolage Conditioning Balm. Results are still underwhelming. My hair feels quite rough and tangly once dried. :/

Maybe my hair doesn't agree with the amount of aloe vera gel? I'm going to put less in next time.

Anje
April 28th, 2014, 01:36 PM
It might not be for you, but I'd actually suggest swapping out the honey for a different sugar (light corn syrup, molasses, etc.) before giving up. I've heard and noticed myself that sometimes honey can be a bit weird.

eva888
April 29th, 2014, 01:34 PM
Today I did an SMT with gelatin added to it so I could do a protein/moisture 2-in-1. My roots are a little bit crunchy, but otherwise it worked really well. My roots are the healthiest part of my hair so they are the part that also needs protein the least.

I have no frizz even though I didn't use any product after my leave-in! :cheese: Usually I use gel or some kind of styling cream to tame the frizzies.

White
May 11th, 2014, 10:59 AM
I tried it a couple of days ago, and I am thrilled! Love, love, love it. My hair is even shinier than before, wonderful! I told ALL my friends interested in haircare about this, I;m still waiting to here back from them as well.

Just wanted to ask, do I have to mix it up every time, or can I make more and store it? Will it go bad or something?

meteor
May 11th, 2014, 03:27 PM
White, I wouldn't keep it longer than a week. The preservatives in the conditioner are diluted by the addition of honey and aloe.

White
May 11th, 2014, 08:56 PM
Thank you, meteor. :blossom:

turquoisedays
May 20th, 2014, 10:16 AM
I started using this as a deep conditioner/leave in as I exercise at the gym, while wearing a baseball cap or large headband over my head and a braided bun. I wash it out after my workout (typically an hour long). It works amazingly well!

meteor
May 20th, 2014, 10:31 AM
I started using this as a deep conditioner/leave in as I exercise at the gym, while wearing a baseball cap or large headband over my head and a braided bun. I wash it out after my workout (typically an hour long). It works amazingly well!
Cool idea! :) It never stops surprising me how much better any treatment works if we use some moderate heat on it. Any conditioner can be turned into a deep treatment this way.

meteor
May 22nd, 2014, 02:34 PM
Guys, does anybody else get issues with tangles from SMT? I really like the shine I get, but if I use straight conditioner or conditioner + oil, I get significantly better slip than using conditioner + honey/aloe. Do humectants (honey, aloe) make tangles worse sometimes?

tbonita
May 22nd, 2014, 04:16 PM
I'm going to be doing this tonight post-henna. I've been doing a lot of herbal treatments lately And my hair could use a moisture kick! I have cheap suave/vo5's, but I may use my GVP Biolage balm. Thoughts?

turtleann
June 2nd, 2014, 11:07 AM
I did my first SMT last night and it turned out really well. My hair has been dry and tangly lately (not sure why) and it feels much better today!
I read a bunch of pages on this thread, but not all- so I apologize if this question has been addressed already. When I tried CO, I had increased shedding to the point where my hair looks visibly thinner- yikes! I won't try that again. Because I had that problem with CO, I was reluctant to leave the SMT on for a long time, although ideally I'd like to try it overnight. Yesterday I waited about an hour before ring, and didn't notice any shedding when I rinsed.
Has anyone experienced increased shedding during SMT or do you think I have nothing to worry about?

Anje
June 2nd, 2014, 03:30 PM
I read a bunch of pages on this thread, but not all- so I apologize if this question has been addressed already. When I tried CO, I had increased shedding to the point where my hair looks visibly thinner- yikes! I won't try that again. Because I had that problem with CO, I was reluctant to leave the SMT on for a long time, although ideally I'd like to try it overnight.
Honestly, you get diminishing returns leaving a deep treatment on for longer than about half an hour. (http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/10/deep-conditioning-effect-of-time-and.html) I personally wouldn't bother leaving it in overnight even if CO did not cause increased shedding for you.

turtleann
June 2nd, 2014, 04:06 PM
Honestly, you get diminishing returns leaving a deep treatment on for longer than about half an hour. (http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/10/deep-conditioning-effect-of-time-and.html) I personally wouldn't bother leaving it in overnight even if CO did not cause increased shedding for you.

Thank you! That article was a really thoughtful and relevant recommendation. I love science!

twiglet
June 2nd, 2014, 04:22 PM
Just did my first SMT. Wow. My hair is so much softer (and I'd thought it was soft already) and my ends! They feel almost as silky as just after a hair trim when you've had splits for too long and you finally have healthy ends again :heartbeat I guess this means I can postpone the trim I've been planning on!

ErinLeigh
June 6th, 2014, 01:12 AM
I found out recently the GVP Generic Biolage is the old pre 2010 version, not the one currently sold by Biolage. The generic has the goldenseal in the mix. I wonder if that makes a differnce as for me the GVP is a perfect mix for SMTs.
I am going to try a SMT this weekend with my new Briogeo deep conditioner and see what happens. This one has protein in it but it makes hair so silky I have a feeling it may be a good combo for me. I also found Burt Bess Deep Conditioner works well too as a mix.

StellaKatherine
July 2nd, 2014, 03:47 AM
Oh I need to try this one! Unfortunantly can't do it with this washing as need to be ready to go in couple of hours.. but next time for sure!

StellaKatherine
July 2nd, 2014, 04:49 AM
Hahaha I decided to just try it :) Kinda curious to see the result of my hard work on my hair.
1. Had the lenght of my hair coconut oiled over the night
2. In the morning made a mixture of coconut, olive, avocado, castor oils and added egg yolk and honey. Put all over my head and left under the shower cap for an hour
3. Did my first WCC and as a second conditioning made this deep treatment for about 20 min.

I think I shed little more than usually in shower.... Now just waiting for my hair to dry and see how all of this will affect my hair :) Hair did feel super soft and silky in shower though :)

Medievalmaniac
July 2nd, 2014, 06:36 AM
I've noticed that my last few SMTs haven't been delivering the goods the way they used to. I have always used the VO5 line of conditioners for these; have they changed their formula? Has anyone else noticed a difference in his/her VO5 SMTs over the past several months?

mariakatija
July 10th, 2014, 08:00 PM
I just did a SMT after a protein treatment and my hair is silky soft! This is THE way to moisturize hair.

milque
July 25th, 2014, 10:27 AM
After a few attempts at the SMT that didn't impress me, I finally tried it with molasses like Anje suggested. My hair has been so unmanageably dry the past few weeks and I was desperate! I am so glad I gave SMT another go! I used Curl Junkie Curl Rehab as the conditioner, and left it on for 2 hours. I also clarified beforehand. Even while rinsing out my hair felt lovely. Now that it's 90% dry, my hair feels moisturized and oh so soft! My ends were horrible before I did it, all rough, tangly, breaking and full of split ends. Now they're soft and refreshed. I love it!

I don't know if it's the molasses or conditioner that makes the difference, but I hope it's the molasses. I had to buy Curl Rehab online and it cost me a bomb to get it shipped to the UK!

Akville
July 25th, 2014, 11:58 AM
hi

do you think I could use this as a pre poo method? put it at night and leave it and shampoo in the morning??

meteor
July 25th, 2014, 12:16 PM
hi

do you think I could use this as a pre poo method? put it at night and leave it and shampoo in the morning??

Oh yeah! I find it's best as a pre-poo on damp hair, because there is less chance that sticky honey will be dripping all over the way it does if you use it as a conditioning step on wet hair.
However, if you want to sleep in it, it might be uncomfortable... make sure you wrap your head with plastic very securely. I think it will work like an intense "baggy method" or "greenhouse" method. Should be very moisturizing for dried-out, fried hair.

leilani
July 25th, 2014, 04:50 PM
Overnight conditioner? I think hair doesn't like to be wet so long, and anything more than thirty minutes is a bit overkill. Plus, honey on pillow= sticky gross bed.

Anje
July 25th, 2014, 07:47 PM
Overnight conditioner? I think hair doesn't like to be wet so long, and anything more than thirty minutes is a bit overkill. Plus, honey on pillow= sticky gross bed.

That would be my take... I think about 30 minutes of warm conditioner is enough to give just about all the benefits, and SMTs are drippy! But my scalp doesn't like being kept soggy for extended periods, so I've got a good excuse not to do any overnight conditioning (or hennaing), ever.


I don't know if it's the molasses or conditioner that makes the difference, but I hope it's the molasses. I had to buy Curl Rehab online and it cost me a bomb to get it shipped to the UK!
In my experience, sometimes treatments with honey leave hair feeling sort of rough. I don't know how else to describe it. I've heard it attributed to there being excessive pollen in the honey -- maybe that's it? In any case, all the sugary syrups I've tried work nicely, though the smell of fakey buttery mapley pancake syrup on my head was really odd. :lol: All things being equal, I'd probably recommend molasses or corn syrup over honey, just to decrease the variability in people's experiences.

ETA: Oh, I'm pretty sure molasses and treacle are the same thing, if treacle's easier to find in the UK!

GRU
July 28th, 2014, 06:30 PM
FWIW, unless you're buying raw honey directly from a local beekeeper, the chances of there being ANY pollen in your store-bought honey (in the USA) is practically zero.

I'm another that has used molasses with good effect. Ditto with honey, but I prefer to eat my honey rather than wear it. ;)

schatten
July 31st, 2014, 02:14 AM
If I can finde Aloe Vera Gel in a store today, I will try SMT soon! :)

schatten
July 31st, 2014, 02:17 AM
Sorry for the typo, I cannot edit posts yet...

StellaKatherine
July 31st, 2014, 03:41 AM
I have aloe vera plant at home, so I use it. Going to make a deep treatment today :joy:

polishrose
August 7th, 2014, 02:29 AM
I'm wondering whether this will help my poor hair at all. It's bleached and has been dyed and bleached for years and I wasn't looking after it very well so it's in terrible condition. :( The ends are crispy and frizzy and that's after I had 2 inches cut off that were just split ends. :(

StellaKatherine
August 7th, 2014, 05:33 AM
I'm wondering whether this will help my poor hair at all. It's bleached and has been dyed and bleached for years and I wasn't looking after it very well so it's in terrible condition. :( The ends are crispy and frizzy and that's after I had 2 inches cut off that were just split ends. :(

My sisters hair was really damaged and burned! I did couple of over night treatment with coconut oil applied all over her hair and then SMT after after shampoo and her hair looks amazing compared to what it looked like before! So I would say definitely try it out!

meteor
August 7th, 2014, 08:22 AM
I'm wondering whether this will help my poor hair at all. It's bleached and has been dyed and bleached for years and I wasn't looking after it very well so it's in terrible condition. :( The ends are crispy and frizzy and that's after I had 2 inches cut off that were just split ends. :(

I agree with StellaKatherine!

Also, please remember that bleached, damaged hair is inherently porous, meaning that it has chips in its compromised keratin structure and therefore has problems holding onto water, so humectants like honey and aloe vera (in SMTs) can really help.

The focus of hair care for porous hair should be temporarily reducing porosity by oiling with penetrative oils (pre-poo, leave-in) and patch repairing agents like hydrolyzed proteins, 18-mea and occlusives like sealing oils, ceramides and maybe even some waxes.

My Number 1 tip for all chemically processed hair is pre-wash oilings because they really help with high porosity issues.

Here is a very good quick article on what ingredient agents penetrate virgin vs. damaged hair:
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/10/deep-conditioning-what-ingredients-in.html
"Natural Hair - No Processing
-water
-hydrolysed wheat protein
-coconut oil
-cetrimonium bromide
-caffeine
-panthenol

Bleached Hair, Relaxed Hair or Damaged Hair (i.e cuticle damage)
- everything in the unprocessed natural hair list above
-some amino acids enhanced by being in a creamy conditioner (arginine, glycine, glutamic acid, phenylalanine, histidine)
-artificial peptides (similar to hydrolysed protein)
-some silicones or amodimethicones
-hydrolysed palm oil
-18MEA"

And here is a great read on managing hair porosity: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/03/managing-elasticity-and-porosity-in-hair.html

And how to make pre-poos work for your hair: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/03/oil-pre-shampoo-or-pre-wash.html

Good luck! :D

Anje
August 7th, 2014, 11:49 AM
I'm wondering whether this will help my poor hair at all. It's bleached and has been dyed and bleached for years and I wasn't looking after it very well so it's in terrible condition. :( The ends are crispy and frizzy and that's after I had 2 inches cut off that were just split ends. :(

It might, but often hair that's been bleached and generally is fried benefits from protein, too. If you want to do that intensively, a good option for a home recipe is based on gelatin (http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/p/recipes-and-projects.html). Follow it up with a treatment like the SMT to make sure your hair doesn't feel stiff afterward. For a little protein but a less intensive treatment, dumping a bit (maybe a Tablespoon?) of low-sodium soy sauce into the SMT mix isn't half bad. :)

polishrose
August 9th, 2014, 01:53 AM
Thank you all. I went ahead and tried it and the results were ok but not spectacular and then I realised that my aloe Vera gel had alcohol in it. I bought new gel yesterday so I will try this again. I also did this on 2 of my daughters hair and it turned out beautifully. Softy shiny yummy smelling hair. My hair didn't seem to hold on to the smell when I did it.

Meteor I always thought porous hair was a good thing as it would absorb more but obviously I now know I was wrong. I live in a very hard water area. Would that be affecting my hair too ? How often should I do the smt? My hair is tangly even after wcc method. For the smt I plan to use honey,gel,coconut conditioner and a nettle conditioner. Neither have cones in. The coconut one is by Schwarzkopf and has glycerine in. Are those good choices? I have other conditioners at home- herbal essence hello hydration,god renewing argan oil conditioner,Jason aloe Vera,Aussie 3mm colour mate,Schwarzkopf total repair and l'oreal elvive curl control.

I bought some coconut oil and did put it on my ends last night. Not sure how much I should be using as they get a bit stuff and greasy this morning and had to be washed. I don't shampoo the ends just the scalp.

meteor
August 9th, 2014, 10:59 AM
Polishrose, yes, low porosity hair is pretty much what grows from our scalp when the hair is undamaged and virgin. It's good that it keeps some integrity, so it won't be easily damaged by external conditions and treatments. For example, low porosity hair doesn't take to dye or styling too well, it doesn't frizz up as soon as there is more humidity in the air... it keeps its integrity pretty well... but it's not a bad thing at all!
When the hair is damaged, it becomes porous, due to some chips in the hair cuticle (and sometimes even in cortex), letting more stuff in and out, losing moisture faster, becoming less manageable and more sensitive to humidity (or lack thereof) and rough treatment.

You mentioned hard water: it's very important and can reduce the effectiveness of hair treatments you do. You might benefit from getting a chelating / "swimmers" shampoo, which helps remove mineral build-up from hair. Also diluted citric/vinegar rinses post-wash are a good thing to keep the effects of hard water at bay.

Honestly, with conditioner choices, it's too hard for me to judge (too many ingredients to consider) - but why not go by how your hair feels? For an SMT, no-cones are preferable, because they won't block the moisture of humectants from working to the max. But other than SMTs, I'd happily use cones! I can't personally recommend avoiding all cones to people with bleached hair. Bleached hair needs all the help it can get from the excellent detangling and slip that cones provide. As long as you use clarifying shampoo sometimes, the build-up from cones will be removed.

With oils, use VERY little, it's easy to overdo it. If it feels stiff and heavy, you've probably used too much but it's easy to remove it with conditioner wash or shampoo wash.
One fingernail amount of oil is enough for my thick, TBL hair as a leave-in. For pre-poo oiling, I use a couple tablespoons... but for shorter, finer hair, I'd use a lot less.

Best of luck! :D And let me know if you have more questions! :flower:

leilani
August 14th, 2014, 01:29 AM
tablespoon of soy sauce into an SMT is a good thing! At least for my hair!

StellaKatherine
August 14th, 2014, 02:18 AM
I was thinking of trying out and mix coconut milk with SMT :) I have some at home, so why not try it out :stirpot:

meteor
August 14th, 2014, 09:05 AM
tablespoon of soy sauce into an SMT is a good thing! At least for my hair!

Sounds great!
I haven't tried SMT+soy sauce, but I've tried a similar natural protein treatment: SMT+gelatin. It's GREAT! I also saw some LHC-ers (curlies with chemically treated hair) reporting excellent results from this.
I think SMT + protein generally works very well, because protein treatments tend to require major moisturizing conditioners in order to avoid any brittleness/stiffness... which is provided by SMT! :)

Sarden
August 17th, 2014, 03:24 PM
I did my first SMT on Friday. I have to say, it didn't go all that well - after my hair dried it was horrid... Very greasy and tangled. I figured I hadn't rinsed it out well enough. As it happened, the recipe I made up made two lots so I had half left over so the next day I gave a light shampoo, then repeated the SMT making sure I rinsed the crap out of it and.... YAY, success! My hair felt wonderful, really shiny and soft. The recipe I used was;

4 tbsp 3mm (loaded with cones I know, but my hair likes it
1 tbsp Aldi clear honey
1 tbsp fruit of the earth aloe

QuillEnchanted
August 18th, 2014, 01:54 PM
I really want to give this treatment a try, and my ends (nearing tailbone now) could certainly use it.

I'm hesitant though. Any time I have used conditioner like this and let it sit on the hair, no matter how much I rinse, my hair comes out greasy. I've tried protein, cones, cone free, protein free, you name it. If conditioner touches my scalp, the hair ends up not oily but greasy, fresh after the wash.

My hair hates: coconut oil, proteins, conditioner on the scalp
My hair loves: amodimethicone...

I've got coarse, straight, tailbone length hair (super low porosity, as that seems to affect how it reacts to things).

Any advice from others working with similar hair?

Santi
August 20th, 2014, 07:15 PM
I love this treatment! I didn't realize it originated from LHC. I got it from naturallycurly.com. I make it w/ aloe vera juice. Thank you Snowymoon!

GRU
August 23rd, 2014, 12:22 PM
I really want to give this treatment a try, and my ends (nearing tailbone now) could certainly use it.

I'm hesitant though. Any time I have used conditioner like this and let it sit on the hair, no matter how much I rinse, my hair comes out greasy. I've tried protein, cones, cone free, protein free, you name it. If conditioner touches my scalp, the hair ends up not oily but greasy, fresh after the wash.

My hair hates: coconut oil, proteins, conditioner on the scalp
My hair loves: amodimethicone...

I've got coarse, straight, tailbone length hair (super low porosity, as that seems to affect how it reacts to things).

Any advice from others working with similar hair?

Why not just leave your scalp-region hair untouched by the SMT .... just apply it to your length?

maegalcarwen
August 24th, 2014, 03:23 PM
I did my first SMT and my hair ( and I ) love(s) it! Softness, curls and shine! I was never able to achieve this before:) Also discovered that I am more curly than I though:p
I used:
- 300ml silicone free conditioner ( Syoss silicone free)
- about 2 tbsp coconut oil
- about 2 tbsp honey
- about 3-4 tbsp fresh aloe vera (3 middle leaves)
- about 1 tbsp of this oil (http://www.violey.com/images/produkte/500x500s/8906020510104.jpg)
I mixed everything together, warmed it up in the microwave, and left it on for about 4 hours under a shower cap and a hair turban. CO washed afterwards and air dried.

Look at the results!
http://postimg.org/image/bywl7yntf/

QuillEnchanted
August 25th, 2014, 09:02 AM
@Gru: that's what I ended up doing. I was debating working it into all of my hair, but thought I'd better test the waters first...


Did my first SMT last night!
When I rinsed it out, my hair felt super dry, which was strange. Once my hair had dried fully though, it was incredibly silky! I'm loving the results on the length and I think I may work it into the scalp next time as well, because the aloe seems to counter the greasy effect conditioner normally leaves me with. I normally finish washing with a cone conditioner, so my hair is feeling very light today, comparatively. We'll see how it holds up over the week.

SO is growing out his hair as well and is just almost hitting shoulder length and he wanted to try it as well, so why not? It left his hair softer than usual and a bit on the fluffy side. Definitely moisturized.

The recipe I used was:
4TB Live Clean invigorating conditioner (the only silicone free one I could find after looking through 3 stores! Grrr...)
1TB local unpasteurized honey
1TB fruit of the earth clear aloe gel.

There were little clear bits in the mixture, which looked like clumps of aloe, but I was careful in the rinsing out, so they didn't cause any problems.

Athena61
September 8th, 2014, 07:09 AM
Good morning. Not sure if I can get a quick response here from anybody but would appreciate it if I did. My situation and question: I am still trying to repair the damage from lightening my hair so I usually do a protein treatment once a week. To start with I normally do a heavy oiling with coconut oil and leave it on for several hours then wash with conditioner mixed with small amount of shampoo. I then rapply protein treatment and leave on 10 minutes then rinse, and follow with conditioner.

In order to incorporate a protein treatment in to a routine I was wondering if the following would work: CO, rinse, protein treatment, rinse, SMT (on wet hair), rinse. ??

Anje
September 8th, 2014, 10:49 AM
That sounds do-able to me. What are you using as a protein treatment? :)

Athena61
September 8th, 2014, 11:22 AM
Hi Anje. I'm using a Bumble and Bumble product called Mending Masque. I'm not a fan of these types of products anymore as I realize how much better natural can be. It lists the following ingredients:
Pantethine: repair, strengthening, moisture, protection
A lipid blend (consisting of Linoleic Acid, Cholesterol, Squalane, Phospholipids and Barley and Wheat Germ Extracts): moisture replenishment, hydration, strengthening, softness, smoothness, shine, resilience
Creatine: conditioning, energy-promotion
Panthenol (Pro-Vitamin B5): moisture balance, promotes healthy hair
Phytantriol: heat damage and flyaway protection, hydration, moisture

Anyway, I went ahead using my original steps listed above. I've rinsed it out and am letting it air dry. I've had tremendous success with deep conditioning treatments with weekly coconut oil so the SMT would be a bonus :)

Athena61
September 8th, 2014, 11:23 AM
I'll post later today after my hair dries on how it feels and looks following this treatment. Thanks for your response.

Anje
September 8th, 2014, 11:46 AM
Hope it works well for you. I'm not sure it's going to do much as a protein treatment (it might, but "barley and wheat germ extracts" could mean anything). :)

If you find yourself needing something stronger, I've heard only good things about treatments based on gelatin. Here's a simple but effective one. (http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2014/04/gelatin-protein-treatment-recipe-update.html)

meteor
September 8th, 2014, 12:18 PM
Good morning. Not sure if I can get a quick response here from anybody but would appreciate it if I did. My situation and question: I am still trying to repair the damage from lightening my hair so I usually do a protein treatment once a week. To start with I normally do a heavy oiling with coconut oil and leave it on for several hours then wash with conditioner mixed with small amount of shampoo. I then rapply protein treatment and leave on 10 minutes then rinse, and follow with conditioner.

In order to incorporate a protein treatment in to a routine I was wondering if the following would work: CO, rinse, protein treatment, rinse, SMT (on wet hair), rinse. ??

Sounds great! I'd recommend experimenting with combining protein treatment with SMT, just to see if you can successfully streamline the routine and cut down on wet manipulation. The thing is protein can be somewhat drying, but SMT fixes that right up, so the order I'd follow would be:
- pre-poo oiling
- wash
- SMT + protein treatment
- rinse (optional)
So I'd recommend experimenting with blending your honey/aloe/other stuff into your Bumble and Bumble mending masque and see how that works. :D
Good luck! :flower:

leilani
September 8th, 2014, 12:30 PM
I actually read that conditioner and protein can compete with each other in their quest for patch repair, so it's better to clarify everything off, protein, and then a heavy conditioning treatment.

I do overnight coconut oil, clarify, protein mask for five minutes (gelatin), then a warm SMT for awhile, or just gobs of conditioner fo4 two minutes.

meteor
September 8th, 2014, 12:37 PM
Hope it works well for you. I'm not sure it's going to do much as a protein treatment (it might, but "barley and wheat germ extracts" could mean anything). :)

If you find yourself needing something stronger, I've heard only good things about treatments based on gelatin. Here's a simple but effective one. (http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2014/04/gelatin-protein-treatment-recipe-update.html)

It's not a bad protein treatment (I've bolded hydrolyzed proteins below, and there might be more that I didn't identify), but it mostly relies on silicones. Looks like it should be a good masque for masking damage on chemically treated hair.
I agree about gelatin treatment, it's great! I like to dilute a Knox packet (1 tbsp) of gelatin in half-a-cup of hot water, add honey/aloe for more humectant action, oils, if you like them, and conditioner for ease of distribution. This is basically a modified, protein-rich SMT. :)

Bumble and Bumble Mending Masque ingredients:
Water, Cetearyl Alcohol, Dimethicone, Distearyldimonium Chloride, Cetyl Esters, Hordeum Vulgare (Barley) Extract\Extrait D'Orge, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein PG-Propyl Silanetriol, Panthenol*, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Triticum Vulgare (Wheat) Germ Extract, Hydrolyzed Wheat Starch, Stearalkonium Chloride, Creatine, Behentrimonium Chloride, Pantethine, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Cholesterol, Linoleic Acid, PPG-3 Benzyl Ether Myristate, Squalane, Adenosine Phosphate, Phospholipids, Phytantriol, Panthenyl Ethyl Ether, Cetrimonium Chloride, Tocopheryl Acetate, Disodium Cocoamphodiacetate, Citric Acid, Phenoxyethanol, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Linalool, Limonene, Fragrance (Parfum) , Pro-Vitamin *B5.

meteor
September 8th, 2014, 12:40 PM
I actually read that conditioner and protein can compete with each other in their quest for patch repair, so it's better to clarify everything off, protein, and then a heavy conditioning treatment.

I do overnight coconut oil, clarify, protein mask for five minutes (gelatin), then a warm SMT for awhile, or just gobs of conditioner fo4 two minutes.

I'm curious about this. I don't know how they compete with each other... but I guess results would show. :) Did you see an improvement when you used pure protein, followed by SMT/conditioner vs. protein mixed into SMT? :)

leilani
September 8th, 2014, 04:44 PM
Absolutely. Read the concept on sciencey hair blog. Only time I really could get a big effect was after clarifying everything off, then going for the gelatin without any conditioner until after I rinsed it out

meteor
September 8th, 2014, 05:35 PM
Oh yes, everything goes better on freshly clarified hair, that's true. :)

Rhoward
September 8th, 2014, 10:15 PM
Just did my fortnightly SMT and had no honey in the house! But I did have glycerine so I used that in place of the honey. Hair is just as lovely after treatment, maybe not as shiny? But if you're out of honey I can definitely recommend glycerine! :o

meteor
September 8th, 2014, 10:24 PM
Glycerine definitely works well! :thumbsup: And so do molasses and different syrups. They are all effective humectants. Also, these are safer options for people who are worried about potential lightening from honey.

Rhoward
September 8th, 2014, 10:33 PM
Thank you I didn't know about molasses, I don't think I get any lightening when I use honey, but because I hendigo I do have paranoia every time that it's going to eat my indigo so will definitely get some molasses!

Athena61
September 9th, 2014, 10:00 AM
Thanks for the replies. I was just now able to connect up to read them.
I did the SMT yesterday following the B&B protein masque. Results ended up almost incredible. The reason I say almost is that it was a bit fuzzy. I had to use a styler set on the lowest setting possible to smooth it out. I hesitate to have to do that as I do believe styling tools can be very harmful. And I know this because anything more than a quick pass on low will leave the tips on my most vulnerable areas crunchy. Afterwards I don't believe my hair has ever felt as luxurious.

Anyway, I am not a fan of these types of commercial products anymore. Thanks to this site I know better. Alas, if I had only done my due diligence ahead of time I would have never ever had my beautiful thick long wavy dark hair lifted in preparation for letting all those silvers shine. All I can do is wait it out, continue to baby my hair.

I am very interested in changing up my protein treatment. I know my hair still needs it because of the gummy mushy feeling while it's wet. It's come a long ways but still necessary. I just wish I could resolve the frizzy hair when I air it dry. So...I'll be working at trying to figure that out.

Thank you everyone, past and present for your contributions to this site.

Athena61
September 9th, 2014, 10:09 AM
I agree about gelatin treatment, it's great! I like to dilute a Knox packet (1 tbsp) of gelatin in half-a-cup of hot water, add honey/aloe for more humectant action, oils, if you like them, and conditioner for ease of distribution. This is basically a modified, protein-rich SMT. :)



May I ask you to specify quantities of honey/aloe and conditioner to add to the gelatin? This is all so new to me. I have shoulder length hair. Somewhat thick. Thank you.

meteor
September 9th, 2014, 10:53 AM
May I ask you to specify quantities of honey/aloe and conditioner to add to the gelatin? This is all so new to me. I have shoulder length hair. Somewhat thick. Thank you.

Hard for me to judge. If your hair is non-virgin (bleached/dyed/permed/relaxed/accumulated heat damage), or if it's textured (wavy/curly), you can probably benefit from gelatin (or any other hydrolyzed protein), but if it's all virgin, you might not need it at all. For shoulder-length, I'd use very little - maybe 1/2 teaspoon of gelatin. 1/2 - 1 teaspoon of honey should be enough. If your hair likes humectants, use more honey/aloe. And mix that in as much water and conditioner as you normally use to cover all hair.
Honestly, it's very individual, because we all use different amounts of conditioner. To be safe, I'd start with very little gelatin and increase the amount if you like the results. If the hair becomes hard/dry/wiry/difficult to comb, you've either used too much gelatin, kept it in hair too long or didn't wash it off well enough. But if that happens, you just need to lay off protein for a while and use moisturizing conditioners.

Here is what Science-y Hair Blog says about concentrations:
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2012/07/gelatin-hair-protein-treatment-faqs.html
"If you use a whole packet of Knox gelatine (2 1/2 teaspoons, 0.25 ounces or 7.2 grams) in 1/4 cup (60 ml) water that is 12% protein. Which is a lot. And this is only if your finished product is 1/4 cup, including anything else you add.
2 1/2 teaspoons gelatine in 1/3 cup water is 9% protein.
1 1/4 teaspoons gelatine (half a packet of Knox) in 1/4 cup water is 6% protein
2 1/2 teaspoons gelatine in 1/2 cup water is also 6% protein.

Protein additives for hair products are usually recommended at a use rate of 2-5%. If the protein in your conditioner is listed before the preservatives, it is probably around 1-2%. If it is listed after the preservatives, it is probably at a concentration of 1% or less. Bear in mind that not all proteins behave the same in all hair types. Different proteins work better with different hair."

Athena61
September 9th, 2014, 11:50 AM
Meteor, thanks for the very helpful info. My hair was damaged when it was lifted to lighter brown/blond. However my hair was also very wavy, especially underneath. After reading your response I'm also hearing wavy/curly hair can also feel wirey after a protein treatment. It kinda feels like a conundrum for me. I know it was badly damaged, plus it feels gummy when wet, indicating need for protein. But maybe it was wirey because of the waves? I know when I air dry my hair no longer has these nice waves like it did prior to the bleaching. I used to be able to air dry my hair with some fly aways.

meteor
September 9th, 2014, 12:17 PM
Athena61, my hair is also wavy and I have old bleached highlights at the bottom and yes the wave pattern there is not the same as my virgin-hair - that's what damage does! Bleach removes some of the hair proteins, so your hair has compromised structure in some parts and just doesn't look/lay the same way.
For porous/damaged hair, I really recommend focusing on conditioning ingredients like penetrating oils, hydrolyzed proteins, artificial peptides, panthenol, 18-mea, ceramides, silicones to mask and patch-repair damage and provide slip.
Please protect your ends with leave-ins with oils and hydrolyzed proteins, use a good quality detangling tool and sleep on smooth surface (silk/satin pillowcases/scarves/sleepcaps are helpful for keeping cuticles smooth and preventing mechanical damage).

I highly recommend these articles:
Conditioning ingredients that penetrate hair: http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/10/deep-conditioning-what-ingredients-in.html
How to make pre-poo oils work for you: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/03/oil-pre-shampoo-or-pre-wash.html
Managing hair elasticity and porosity: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/03/managing-elasticity-and-porosity-in-hair.html
Details about protein: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2013/09/more-about-protein.html

Athena61
September 9th, 2014, 03:58 PM
Thanks, Meteor. I've read through the articles you listed. I am doing the pre-oiling with coconut oil. Next step is switching to gelatin to see if my hair responds. Wish it were so easy to just list the types of ingredients desired and out pops up a list if which product to use. You've been very helpful.

Athena61
September 9th, 2014, 04:03 PM
Meteor, Going back and reviewing your comment on the B&B Masque, I agree it hits on some of the ingredients you recommended for my hair issues. Maybe adding some gelatin to this masque might be a good idea.

meteor
September 10th, 2014, 03:08 PM
I really hope it works for you, Athena61! :D Silicones (dimethicone) are really high up on the list of ingredients, which might prevent gelatin and SMT from giving you maximum results, but I personally never bother to avoid silicones. I really hope your deep treatment will work out very well for you! :D

Athena61
September 10th, 2014, 04:47 PM
Meteor, thanks. SMT and Foxes Shea butter treatment have been nothing short of a miracle. In light of what u mentioned above about the cones may not be providing max benefit I'm going to skip the BB Masque and go straight to the gelatin recipe. I am still awing over how good my hair feels and how much shine I'm seeing.

I will need to address my current hair color at some point. The toner that was put on to help with my silver/gray transition is too golden. My stylist has put a Demi permanent cooler tone over it but it's faded back to the warm tone. I'm nervous about changing it as I don't want anymore damage or chemicals but current color looks all wrong.

meteor
September 10th, 2014, 05:38 PM
Anthena61, if it's brassiness that bothers you, then I recommend acidic rinses with either white vinegar or lemon juice (both highly diluted, of course). They can remove some mineral/metal deposits that create brassiness in bleach blondes. Also, chelating (labelled "swimmers'") shampoos help with that.
I find that honey helps, too. Either in honey rinses or SMTs or downright honey lightening sessions.

And of course, commercial toners and "purple" shampoos are great for removing brassiness... but don't overdo them - they tend to be pretty drying on hair!

Athena61
September 11th, 2014, 08:25 AM
Anthena61, if it's brassiness that bothers you, then I recommend acidic rinses with either white vinegar or lemon juice (both highly diluted, of course). They can remove some mineral/metal deposits that create brassiness in bleach blondes. Also, chelating (labelled "swimmers'") shampoos help with that.
I find that honey helps, too. Either in honey rinses or SMTs or downright honey lightening sessions.

And of course, commercial toners and "purple" shampoos are great for removing brassiness... but don't overdo them - they tend to be pretty drying on hair!

Meteor, again a wealth of information. Just to further advance my learning, please tell me what ACV might do to my hair. And I'd wondered about purple shampoos and when they might start to become appropriate from the standpoint of my silvers (1.5 outgrowth) vs: the majority of my hair still being brassy colored blond/light brown (warm). I assumed my silvers were not long enough yet. Thanks so much for your help. Very much appreciated.

JustPam
September 11th, 2014, 08:52 AM
I have tried purple/silver shampoos (both cheap and salon brands) on the mid blonde dyed part of my hair and it didn't really make much of a difference, they are only recommended for very light blonde hair really. The only thing that made a bit of a difference for me was this (http://www.boots.com/en/Scott-Cornwall-Colour-Restore-Cool-Ash-Hair-Toner-100ml_1262298/), which I left on for 1 hour (directions say 25 minutes) but it faded a few weeks later anyway.

Athena61
September 11th, 2014, 10:23 AM
JustPam, it sounds similar to the toner my hairstylist has used in the past. The original toner used (which was a permanent dye) was in the warm tones. It ended up looking orangey. (My hair was badly damaged with huge amounts of breakage after the initial bleaching.) After trying to live with the warm tone for 1 month she ended up putting an Demi permanent ash toner over the warm toner. It's just not holding and I'm a bit worried about having it toned to a permanent ash tone because of the process and further potential damage. My final goal is to grow out to virgin.

meteor
September 11th, 2014, 10:28 AM
Meteor, again a wealth of information. Just to further advance my learning, please tell me what ACV might do to my hair. And I'd wondered about purple shampoos and when they might start to become appropriate from the standpoint of my silvers (1.5 outgrowth) vs: the majority of my hair still being brassy colored blond/light brown (warm). I assumed my silvers were not long enough yet. Thanks so much for your help. Very much appreciated.

ACV is just a type of acidic rinse, to lower the ph and remove some light mineral build-up. ACV is not recommended for blondes, especially if you already have the brassiness problem. ACV, even when you dilute it very well, can leave a reddish tint, I was surprised how fast it happened on my hair! So for blondes, what's recommended instead is simple white vinegar or lemon juice (it can make your hair a bit lighter). Don't forget that they can be drying, and you always must dilute heavily: I use a teaspoon per 2 cups of water, for example. Lemon juice is more acidic so dilute it more heavily than vinegar. I like adding some honey to my rinses and conditioners, as it's both moisturizing (a humectant) and I feel like it makes my highlights pop and look a bit lighter.

If the brassiness is a serious and recurring issue, why not ask a hairdresser for product recommendations? There are lots of toners out there to choose from, but once you find the right one for your shade, you should be good to go. :)

Also, here are a couple of threads with good ideas that you might find interesting:
Bottle Blonde Grows Long - http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=21256 and
Hair Care and Colour Tips for Bottle Blondes - http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=61322

meteor
September 11th, 2014, 10:33 AM
JustPam, it sounds similar to the toner my hairstylist has used in the past. The original toner used (which was a permanent dye) was in the warm tones. It ended up looking orangey. (My hair was badly damaged with huge amounts of breakage after the initial bleaching.) After trying to live with the warm tone for 1 month she ended up putting an Demi permanent ash toner over the warm toner. It's just not holding and I'm a bit worried about having it toned to a permanent ash tone because of the process and further potential damage. My final goal is to grow out to virgin.

If you want to grow out to virgin, then why not ask your hairdresser to match your hair color to your roots, maybe with a combination of highlights and lowlights to blend in? I think it can make growing out process a lot easier.

Athena61
September 11th, 2014, 10:51 AM
If you want to grow out to virgin, then why not ask your hairdresser to match your hair color to your roots, maybe with a combination of highlights and lowlights to blend in? I think it can make growing out process a lot easier.

Meteor, my natural hair color is now about 75-80% silver with the remaining base being brunet. We originally thought this warm honey color would help. I've had the cool toner applied twice, with highlights. The first time was over the top of my virgin roots. It was supposed to be Demi permanent but it really did cover my grays and I swear my silvers during that session are still slightly hidden and thus delaying the process. My gut feeling is to just tough it out and go cold turkey...no more coloring. Take care of my hair and get it healthy, keep a cute cut. But the other side of me longs for a pretty color again.

meteor
September 11th, 2014, 04:04 PM
Athena61, I think there are a few useful threads on the LHC about how to grow out silvers after dyes. Also, there is an ongoing Growing out Bleach/Dye thread which might give you some inspiration.
I also heard hairdressers say that balayage highlighting technique is good for working around silvers because you can strategically place painted-on highlights/lowlights to make the look more blended.
There are many different ways you could approach this, and it's up to you and to your taste. :flower:

Athena61
September 12th, 2014, 01:50 PM
Thanks, Meteor. Lots of great information. I feel like I may have high jacked this thread for which I apologize. I will say the Balayage treatment looks promising. Much more interesting then what I've got going on. Lastly, thanks for the heads up on the white vinegar being my appropriate to my situation. I was all set to use ACV.

Winter Fox
September 19th, 2014, 10:19 AM
I just did my first SMT and the results are overwhelming! Due to a henna treatment the day before my hair was overloaded with protein (I normally stay away of any protein because it makes my hair fizzy and dry) .Last night I mixed my favourite Alverde Conditioner with honey and plain aloe vera juice, warmed it a little bit until the honey melted and put it on my wet lenghts. Then I braided my hair, wrapped it in a towel and slept like that. Today I washed my hair with shampoo and then let it air dry.
After I combed it first I was like :disbelief This couldn't be my hair! It was (and still is) extremely smooth, silky and moistured! I know that that's the reason we're doing SMT but my hair being deeply moisturized is something I've never ever accomplished before in all my hairy history.
So I just wanted to say thanks! Thank you for sharing this simple but incredible recipe with us :flower:

meteor
September 19th, 2014, 11:48 AM
That sounds great, Winter Fox! I'm so happy for your awesome results! :D
SMT is just perfect when it's timed well (especially after strengthening treatments and in the right humidity/dew-points). :)

Just an idea: if you need to repeat your henna treatments, maybe it would be a good idea to experiment with omitting the proteins, since you notice that dryness? The thing is, henna tends to bind to hair keratin and be strengthening but somewhat drying initially, and protein can have that effect too, so using them together might intensify that effect.

Winter Fox
September 19th, 2014, 01:10 PM
Thanks meteor :D
The problem is that there's only one henna brand available in my local store - and that contains proteins. :( I already tought about changing the henna brand I'm using but somehow hesitate to buy henna online. For the moment it's ok because I'm only doing my roots but my (formerly bleached and not treated very well) lenghts need a good amount of care and SMT seems just perfect :)

meteor
September 19th, 2014, 01:23 PM
Oh, now I get it! :D Since protein is pre-mixed in the henna mix, what you are doing is perfect! :thumbsup:
Strengthening treatments followed up with moisturizing SMT and possibly a couple drops of oil are really great for hair! :)

kelseyxface
September 25th, 2014, 02:03 PM
Currently sitting with SMT n my hair <3 Did a knox protein treatment, washed it out, and slathered on the conditioner. I used aloe gel straight from the leaf - I hope that doesn't effect anything! I mixed it with shea moisture for kids conditioner and saw raw honey <3 I am so excited to see how my hair looks. My hair loves both honey and the conditioner I bought, but I have no clue how it will react to the aloe juice, and with all it's favorites mixed together. I can't wait to rinse this out. ^.^

bexcalo
September 27th, 2014, 10:51 AM
I have decided to try this treatment out as well although i think i may have over heated it as it looked like it has curdled? Also it is very runny is this normal? I slapped it on anyway and am currently waiting to let it take effect. I am only going to leave it on for about an hour so will see how this one is. I used 3MM by aussie and holland and barrets aloe vera gel

kelseyxface
September 28th, 2014, 01:17 AM
My hair feels AMAZING!!! I'm sure half of it is because of the protein, though (my bleached hair needed it BAD.) but I know my hair also LOVES deep conditioning treatments like this <3 My hair feels like silk - slips right through my fingers. Super shiny, too. I did a varied method of the SMT treatment:
I used a double boiler (boil water, place empty head proof bowl on top)
Added raw honey until melted
Used raw aloe straight from the leaf (heads up - please blend it before using it. I thought I could melt the aloe in the double boiler, alas that was not the case. :()
Removed from heat and added Shea Moisture carrot and mango conditioner.
And the original post is right, no sticky feeling from the honey after I rinsed it out! My hair felt clean and happy. (: Good luck to others out there!

Chiaroscuro
September 28th, 2014, 07:51 AM
Just washed out my first SMT:
SMT Recipe
4 parts conditioner
1 part honey
1 part clear aloe gel

Hair looks shiny and feels soft. It washed out easily except it left tiny little white strings and balls behind almost like organic plant fiber. I used one of the recommended aloes with an old, trusted conditioner that wasn't on the list, so maybe that's the problem. Maybe I did something wrong, but I won't attempt to tweak the recipe. Since my hair is locked, I just can't afford to mess with stuff that doesn't wash out completely. No, I won't try this again, but I'm happy to see all the others who had great results.
******
I've cooled down a bit after I did this two days ago. I spent a day picking out flakes, and I'm still finding them, but I really am impressed by the shine and silkiness. I may give it one last try with a Giovanni conditioner.

bexcalo
September 28th, 2014, 08:25 AM
I do like the feel of my hair after i did the SMT its smooth and silky although i did have to use another conditioner to help rinse it out due to the curdling thing. I think next time i will mix it differently but will try again as i do like the feel

sumidha
October 1st, 2014, 11:31 AM
I just realized that I've never added to the chorus of 'omg this stuff is amazing' on this thread... SMT's are my magic bullet of hair care. I got back from a 3 week desert camping trip a while ago and was absolutely ready to cut off four or five inches of hair, it was so frazzled, limp, dry and build up-y (totally a word) from the crappy conditioner I had with me. I could not figure out what was wrong, thinking the alkaline desert dust had permanently killed my hair until I realized how long it had been since I did an SMT + protein treatment. $1.99 for supplies, fifteen minutes with the stuff on my hair, and the problem is solved! So happy to have my hair back to normal, I can actually run a brush through it again, and probably only need to cut off like an inch of the worst damage at the bottom, instead of fantasizing about chopping it all off at hip again! :D

I've never tried the recipe with aloe before, it's just not something I ever have around the house, but my hair seems to love it anyways with just honey, coconut oil and conditioner. Plus this time two spoonfuls of gelatin dissolved in a little hot water, for protein. Take that fancy expensive repairing conditioners!

Edelweiss
October 8th, 2014, 06:58 AM
Just tried SMT for the first time ! It's on my hair right now, so excited to see the results.

For a first time what would you advice ? To leave it only 30 minutes or more ?

Because some people apparently lose hair if conditioner stays on their scalp for too long, so I don't wanna take the risk.

I already lost some hair while applying it but I guess it's normal, I always lose a lot of hair

White tea
October 18th, 2014, 05:40 AM
Hi! Is there anyone who could help me a bit? I used SMT for 3 times now on wet hair ( I left on for maybe an hour ? ) and I think my end are a bit more dry and brittle than it was before :((( What am I doing wrong? ( My aloe vera gel is clear, I have a conefree keratin conditioner, the honey is just...average honey I guess ? ) Thank you!

meteor
October 18th, 2014, 12:56 PM
Hi! Is there anyone who could help me a bit? I used SMT for 3 times now on wet hair ( I left on for maybe an hour ? ) and I think my end are a bit more dry and brittle than it was before :((( What am I doing wrong? ( My aloe vera gel is clear, I have a conefree keratin conditioner, the honey is just...average honey I guess ? ) Thank you!

How does your hair react to this conditioner on its own? You say it's cone-free and keratin-based... that could contribute to dry/brittle feeling if used too frequently. Why not add oils to this to increase the slip? SMT + oils works very well. Or you could rotate the conditioners you use in your SMT treatments: say, once a month protein-based strengthening conditioner, other times moisturizing conditioner?
Also, aloe vera gel from a tube could contain some problematic ingredients (check the ingredients list), and don't be afraid to skip/replace AVG or honey if you see that your treatment works better without.

White tea
October 19th, 2014, 04:43 PM
Ooo I didn't know that it's not recommended to use keratin based cond. too often :o I was suspicious about the conditioner too, bc it's a new one, I never used keratin conditioners before but I read about this one very good feedback so I thought I give it a try :) Okay, so I'm gonna get another cond. for the SMT and see what's happening :) If it's not changing I'm adding oils too ? Is this sounds good? :/ ( I use SMT before every hairwash which is in every 4-5 days. )
Thank you for your help :3

meteor
October 20th, 2014, 05:05 PM
White tea, I guess a lot depends on how high up the keratin is on the ingredients list. Some protein treatments are very strong, so using them so often might lead to build-up, but it's nothing that simple rotation or clarifying can't fix. Hydrolyzed keratin is great for damaged hair, but virgin hair can feel dry/coated if you use too much.
Maybe a strong treatment with keratin and SMT is just a bit too much to do every 4-5 days? :) See if product rotation helps. ;)

Hibernis
October 27th, 2014, 09:19 AM
My hair got crispy, breaking everywhere, and I think SMT just saved it. I had been putting it off because finding fragrance free anything is a PITA, but here are two fragrance free conditioners that work well:

Desert Essentials Fragrance Free Conditioner (http://www.amazon.com/Desert-Essence-Pure-Conditioner-Fragrance/dp/B0017QSW92)
Trader Joes' Tea Tree Tingle Conditioner (it's $3.99 in the store!)

Desert Essentials has one protein ingredient, and it worked well. (DolphinPrincess - this might answer your question a bit) It took my hair from crispy and breaking to manageable and I only used the SMT mix as a conditioner. I left it in for about 5 minutes after washing. Stuck it in a shower cap and let the water heat it up. Rinsed it out. Air dried. Awesome.

Trader Joe's has no protein, and made my hair SUPER soft. It defined the heck out of my curls. I used it as a co-wash about 3 days after I used the last of my Desert Essentials conditioner as described above. I left it in about 5 minutes. I also added a little more honey and aloe to the mix this time. My hair didn't feel much better when wet, so I added a small amount of oil (3 drops) to the ends of my hair. I'll keep using this as a co-wash and see how my hair feels about it.

Both times I used local honey and aloe gel straight from the plant.

I'm a happy longhair. :)

alishaxmarie
October 27th, 2014, 03:50 PM
Hi! Is there anyone who could help me a bit? I used SMT for 3 times now on wet hair ( I left on for maybe an hour ? ) and I think my end are a bit more dry and brittle than it was before :((( What am I doing wrong? ( My aloe vera gel is clear, I have a conefree keratin conditioner, the honey is just...average honey I guess ? ) Thank you!

Also check the ingredients in your aloe in case there's a really strong alcohol in it that could contribute to dryness. Or, your hair could just dislike humectants like aloe and honey. Also, what is the weather like where you live? Maybe the atmosphere was too dry? Humectants pull water towards themselves so if the air is dry then they will pull the moisture from your hair instead. Just things to consider if the problem wasn't protein build-up.

Catatafish
November 10th, 2014, 08:10 PM
I thought I'd share something I did the other day. I knew that I had been getting too much protein, and my hair was becoming brittle. I was too lazy (and I didn't have honey or aloe vera gel to hand), so I did a modified version of the SMT. It worked really well for me. My hair was really soft and tangled far less afterwards.

I just mixed one part vegetable glycerine to 8 parts Pantene conditioner, and did a WCC, the second C normal Pantene. I'm doing this again tomorrow morning, and will keep it in my rotation. It is so easy, and I've never had such a dramatic difference in my hair before.

I know I must get around to doing a proper SMT at some point, but I thought I'd post this here in case anyone has some glycerine knocking around.

lady mechanic
November 13th, 2014, 08:36 PM
Trying smt for the first time right now! Can't wait to see the results!

bunzfan
November 16th, 2014, 07:58 AM
Haven't done a smt in oooh ages, I felt it needed the moisture left on three hours rinsed out over the bath but, by morning my ends felt dry and tacky so rinsed again I had obviously missed some as it felt a bit slimy in the shower.


Once dry applied a tiny amount of oil and wow it feels so healthy!! Might do this as a weekly overnight treatment as with working I don't get the time but I could wash out the next day .

Winter Fox
November 17th, 2014, 10:24 AM
I did an SMT just yesterday and tried a new conditioner - it turned out awesome! My hair has never felt so nice :cool:
In the past few weeks I found out that my hair likes a ratio of 4 parts conditioner, 1 part aloe vera juice and 2 parts honey the most.
If I use less honey my hair isn't moistured enough. Also the effect depends a lot on the conditioner used. My favorite atm is the Alterra Pomegranate & Aloe Vera :D

elocin9911
November 20th, 2014, 11:45 PM
Will this work with thin hair that holds oils almost too well? My hair is naturally a little dry, but for some reason holds onto oils really strongly. Will this make my hair look greasy if I do it right? Or am I just worrying for nothing?

Anje
November 21st, 2014, 07:08 AM
Using a light conditioner that doesn't make your hair look oily, as well as not adding oil to the recipe, should avoid that. All the same, you might do better rinsing extra well. (Some conditioners marketed as "natural" are oil-heavy. Probably not good choices for people prone to over-oiled hair, IMO.)

I use some Suave conditioner for the base, and I've also got fine hair that is easy to over-oil.

RainbowBowser
December 7th, 2014, 04:51 AM
So I made too much SMT: what do I do with it? I can't justify a waste of a good thing. I plastic wrapped the cup I used and left it. But then I wondered how long does an SMT keep? Having this considered I have a perfect bottle for SMT-making.
If this has been asked before I'm sorry, I didnt want to go through the 100+ pages for an answer.

sumidha
December 7th, 2014, 12:15 PM
RainbowBowser Stick it in the fridge and it should last for at least a week.

I don't use aloe in mine, just honey and coconut oil, and have mixed big batches and left it sitting in the shower for at least a month without any problems, but it kind of depends on where your personal threshold for 'it might go bad' is.

Elly May
December 8th, 2014, 10:58 AM
I feel pretty! Oh, so pretty!

Oh. My. Goodness. I just tried this for the first time. Wow. My hair is so soft and shiny...and even feels thicker. I am a full 1b today, which translates "I've got CURLS!!!!" Being on a very tight budget, I used honey from the discount grocery store, Suave Naturals Aloe and Waterlily (limited selection at Walmart and I couldn't find the ones recommended in the OP), and Fruit of the Earth 100% Aloe Vera Gel (all Walmart carried that wasn't blue or green.) I put it on dry hair (avoiding the scalp) for 30 minutes, shampooed my roots only (sulfate free Aveeno) and rinsed thoroughly. I am so pleased with the results.

HOW OFTEN CAN I DO THIS???"? (Sorry, didn't want to read 1,800 posts to see if I can find the answer...) I stretch washes to 5 days, CO my length and use the Aveeno on my scalp only. Any advice?

Anje
December 8th, 2014, 02:48 PM
I feel pretty! Oh, so pretty!

Oh. My. Goodness. I just tried this for the first time. Wow. My hair is so soft and shiny...and even feels thicker. I am a full 1b today, which translates "I've got CURLS!!!!" Being on a very tight budget, I used honey from the discount grocery store, Suave Naturals Aloe and Waterlily (limited selection at Walmart and I couldn't find the ones recommended in the OP), and Fruit of the Earth 100% Aloe Vera Gel (all Walmart carried that wasn't blue or green.) I put it on dry hair (avoiding the scalp) for 30 minutes, shampooed my roots only (sulfate free Aveeno) and rinsed thoroughly. I am so pleased with the results.

HOW OFTEN CAN I DO THIS???"? (Sorry, didn't want to read 1,800 posts to see if I can find the answer...) I stretch washes to 5 days, CO my length and use the Aveeno on my scalp only. Any advice?
You're using EXACTLY the same stuff I typically use. (Sometimes I further cheap out and use white corn syrup -- honey is yummy!)

Your question is also the same as my husband's. I made him SMT once and he sat there looking like an annoyed cat with the stuff on his head. :demon: BUT once he rinsed it out.... he was thrilled and wanted to know how frequently he could repeat the treatment. :spitting:

How often you can do it probably depends to some degree on hair health and what it likes. I've heard of a few people using it to CO with when their hair was really dry, and I've done the same when recovering from protein overload. I'd guess that every week or two is more than enough for most people. In any case, if your hair starts feeling stretchy, it's time to cut back on it. :)

Elly May
December 12th, 2014, 05:56 PM
ANJE, thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I will definitely try this again. Thanks for the information. I had to laugh at the description of your husband--we have cats and the picture in my head amused me....

Blessings.