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piscesbaby
November 28th, 2014, 11:59 AM
Hi ladies,

Please let me know if you think brushing is damaging to hair. I want to adapt a style that involves daily brushing. If you would like an idea what style and technique I'm talking about, this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcDURNf7yaI) may help. Do you think brushing my hair to "stretch" it into waves will lead to breakage? Thanks!

lapushka
November 28th, 2014, 12:17 PM
My hair isn't brushed daily, only weekly, right before a wash, and my hair is detangled first with a wide-tooth comb, which is key! Never use a brush for detangling purposes, always use a wide-tooth comb first.

Also, if you have curly hair, please look up the "curly girl method" and never dry-brush. Only comb and brush in the shower, coated with conditioner.

Panth
November 28th, 2014, 12:31 PM
As far as I'm aware, the only time brushing is recommended is by advocates of the George Michael method, who believe that daily brushing distributes sebum along the hair, conditioning it. There, brushing is not used to detangle - you use a wide-toothed comb to do that before brushing.

The George Michael method is very much not recommended for curly hair, particularly hair in the 4a/4b/4c range. It breaks up the curl pattern, resulting in hair that is very, very tangle-prone.

I agree with lapushka - you're better off looking at a method, like the Curly Girl method, that is specifically designed for curly hair.

Madora
November 28th, 2014, 02:22 PM
Hi ladies,

Please let me know if you think brushing is damaging to hair. I want to adapt a style that involves daily brushing. If you would like an idea what style and technique I'm talking about, this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcDURNf7yaI) may help. Do you think brushing my hair to "stretch" it into waves will lead to breakage? Thanks!

Most of those hairbrushes in that video link made me cringe. Reinforced boar bristle is not pure boar bristle! Two of the brushes had way two many rows! Too many rows means a devil of a time getting that brush through your hair.

If your hair is very curly, then stick with a wide tooth comb. You CAN brush very curly hair with a boar bristle brush! It all depends on: 1) how you detangle your hair with a wide tooth comb BEFORE you brush, 2) the type of boar bristle brush you use (they are NOT all the same!) and 3) HOW YOU USE THE BRUSH!

If you have curly hair, your hair is curly before AND AFTER you use the brush! You just have to manipulate it a little to bring back the wave pattern. You don't kill waves by brushing your hair!

If you do not have the patience for brushing, then stick with using - daily - a wide tooth comb, with no seams or sharp edges. Keep it squeaky clean too. Good luck!

gthlvrmx
November 28th, 2014, 02:32 PM
My hair isn't brushed daily, only weekly, right before a wash, and my hair is detangled first with a wide-tooth comb, which is key! Never use a brush for detangling purposes, always use a wide-tooth comb first.

Also, if you have curly hair, please look up the "curly girl method" and never dry-brush. Only comb and brush in the shower, coated with conditioner.

I thought it was not good to brush your hair while it's wet? Isn't it better to brush your hair when it's dry?

lapushka
November 28th, 2014, 02:36 PM
I thought it was not good to brush your hair while it's wet? Isn't it better to brush your hair when it's dry?

For wavies and curlies, no. That's a whole nother world. Look up "curly girl method" on Google.

Madora
November 28th, 2014, 03:11 PM
I thought it was not good to brush your hair while it's wet? Isn't it better to brush your hair when it's dry?

For the sake of your hair, never brush it when it is WET! It is weakest when it is wet and therefore you will damage it when you brush it wet! Don't do it!

lapushka
November 28th, 2014, 03:15 PM
For the sake of your hair, never brush it when it is WET! It is weakest when it is wet and therefore you will damage it when you brush it wet! Don't do it!

Madora, sorry, but you do know that the curly girl method exists, right? :)

piscesbaby
November 28th, 2014, 04:38 PM
My hair isn't brushed daily, only weekly, right before a wash, and my hair is detangled first with a wide-tooth comb, which is key! Never use a brush for detangling purposes, always use a wide-tooth comb first.

Also, if you have curly hair, please look up the "curly girl method" and never dry-brush. Only comb and brush in the shower, coated with conditioner.

Thanks for your response! With the 360waves method you are supposed to make sure to have product in your hair prior to brushing it down and then you have to put on a tight scarf while it dries, to prevent shrinkage. I looked at the curly girl method. I might try combing my conditioner-coated hair down in the shower and then tying it down with a scarf so that it dries in the wave pattern instead of coiling all the way up. Maybe a brush isn't really necessary.

piscesbaby
November 28th, 2014, 04:38 PM
This makes me nervous!!! I will try the wave method with a comb first and see if that gives me decent results. Thanks.

lapushka
November 28th, 2014, 04:52 PM
This makes me nervous!!! I will try the wave method with a comb first and see if that gives me decent results. Thanks.

Don't let it make you nervous. Curlies have been combing, and brushing in the shower (when slick with conditioner) for ages.
Sometimes straight-haired gals don't get this type of thing. ;)

ChloeDharma
November 28th, 2014, 04:53 PM
I've heard of something called wrapping the hair. You kind of use your head like a giant roller and wrap it around your head so it dries straight. I've never done it myself but it's meant to be quite good.

I do have a brush that I can use on my hair before it dries but it has very smooth wooden pins, personally I still leave brushing it until it has dried and NEVER use my BBB on it unless there is no hint of dampness.

lapushka
November 28th, 2014, 05:02 PM
I do have a brush that I can use on my hair before it dries but it has very smooth wooden pins, personally I still leave brushing it until it has dried and NEVER use my BBB on it unless there is no hint of dampness.

No BBB were never meant to be used wet. I'm talking Denman brushes and Tangle Teezers, especially made for such purpose.

cat11
November 28th, 2014, 05:23 PM
Madora, sorry, but you do know that the curly girl method exists, right? :)

I know this.comment wasn't meant for me but I.wanted to.clarify you're supposed to comb in the shower, not brush. technically in cg method no brush should touch your hair, just comb.

speaking fragrantsnowm experience having curly hair, though not as curly as yours, I detangle.my hair with a wide tooth comb and.then.follow with a oiled sandalwood brush to make it wavy and smooth and manageable. I don't like leaving my hair stuck together in curls. I find it easier.to.manage and keep tangle free this way with all the strands smoothed out and going down. it definately does break up the curls into.waves. however I doubt this.would be quite as effective.for your hair type... I'd recommend stretching it via braids or stretching and.bobby pinning it around your head. I.learned how to.do that as a no.heat straightening.method from a black girls video on YouTube. I only mention she's black because you appear to be so you'd have somewhat similar hair. I'll try to fish it up!!!

jeanniet
November 28th, 2014, 05:30 PM
Most of those hairbrushes in that video link made me cringe. Reinforced boar bristle is not pure boar bristle! Two of the brushes had way two many rows! Too many rows means a devil of a time getting that brush through your hair.

If your hair is very curly, then stick with a wide tooth comb. You CAN brush very curly hair with a boar bristle brush! It all depends on: 1) how you detangle your hair with a wide tooth comb BEFORE you brush, 2) the type of boar bristle brush you use (they are NOT all the same!) and 3) HOW YOU USE THE BRUSH!

If you have curly hair, your hair is curly before AND AFTER you use the brush! You just have to manipulate it a little to bring back the wave pattern. You don't kill waves by brushing your hair!

If you do not have the patience for brushing, then stick with using - daily - a wide tooth comb, with no seams or sharp edges. Keep it squeaky clean too. Good luck!

This is really not accurate information for type 3 or 4 hair, especially not type 4. Brushing is possible, but really only feasible before a wash. There's no way to manipulate the curl pattern back after that kind of brushing without rewetting. Detangling daily is pointless, because for one thing, detangling curly hair dry leads to more tangles, not less, and is also likely to cause more breakage.


For the sake of your hair, never brush it when it is WET! It is weakest when it is wet and therefore you will damage it when you brush it wet! Don't do it!

Not necessarily true for curly hair. I use a brush wet, and in fact the only time my hair is ever detangled is wet, with a brush. It's in far better shape now than it ever was with daily dry detangling. There is no stretching or breakage when the hair is coated with conditioner, and it's much, much easier.

OP, I'm not sure about this particular method. I'd be hesitant to try it daily, and I'd be very careful trying it at all. Just be sensitive to how it feels.

jeanniet
November 28th, 2014, 05:33 PM
I know this.comment wasn't meant for me but I.wanted to.clarify you're supposed to comb in the shower, not brush. technically in cg method no brush should touch your hair, just comb.

speaking fragrantsnowm experience having curly hair, though not as curly as yours, I detangle.my hair with a wide tooth comb and.then.follow with a oiled sandalwood brush to make it wavy and smooth and manageable. I don't like leaving my hair stuck together in curls. I find it easier.to.manage and keep tangle free this way with all the strands smoothed out and going down. it definately does break up the curls into.waves. however I doubt this.would be quite as effective.for your hair type... I'd recommend stretching it via braids or stretching and.bobby pinning it around your head. I.learned how to.do that as a no.heat straightening.method from a black girls video on YouTube. I only mention she's black because you appear to be so you'd have somewhat similar hair. I'll try to fish it up!!!


It's pretty common for type 3 and 4 to brush wet. It's not strictly CG, but it works for a lot of people. I get more effectlve, faster detangling with a Denman brush than with either fingers or a comb, and it clumps my curls better, too.

gthlvrmx
November 28th, 2014, 05:42 PM
For wavies and curlies, no. That's a whole nother world. Look up "curly girl method" on Google.
I'm looking it up right now but i can't seem to find information about brushing yet. I always read on here on LHC that hair is weakest when wet which is why it is best to brush your hair dry with a BBB.

For the sake of your hair, never brush it when it is WET! It is weakest when it is wet and therefore you will damage it when you brush it wet! Don't do it!

Yes that's what i first read online! That's why i avoid brushing my hair when wet. I don't really care about keeping my curly hair curly right now i don't mind the poof it's so short anyways. But ill look into the curly girl method more to see what Lapushka is talking about because, Madora, i thought brushing your hair when wet was damaging!

lapushka
November 28th, 2014, 05:54 PM
I'm looking it up right now but i can't seem to find information about brushing yet. I always read on here on LHC that hair is weakest when wet which is why it is best to brush your hair dry with a BBB.


Yes that's what i first read online! That's why i avoid brushing my hair when wet. I don't really care about keeping my curly hair curly right now i don't mind the poof it's so short anyways. But ill look into the curly girl method more to see what Lapushka is talking about because, Madora, i thought brushing your hair when wet was damaging!

Please read what jeanniet wrote above. :)

gthlvrmx
November 28th, 2014, 05:57 PM
Please read what jeanniet wrote above. :)

OK I did. So is it ok to brush my hair when full of conditioner with my BBB?

Madora
November 28th, 2014, 06:05 PM
I'm looking it up right now but i can't seem to find information about brushing yet. I always read on here on LHC that hair is weakest when wet which is why it is best to brush your hair dry with a BBB.


Yes that's what i first read online! That's why i avoid brushing my hair when wet. I don't really care about keeping my curly hair curly right now i don't mind the poof it's so short anyways. But ill look into the curly girl method more to see what Lapushka is talking about because, Madora, i thought brushing your hair when wet was damaging!

Gthlvrmx, I want to be sure I am not misinterpreting your statement "I always read on here on LHC that hair is weakest when wet which is why it is best to brush your hair dry with a BBB!

Au contraire! I never advocated anything like that! You brush your hair when, and only AFTER, it is all dry! You don't brush it to help it along in the drying process! That's awful!

I have absolutely nothing against using a wide tooth COMB in the shower when detangling hair, as long as the hair is covered in conditioner...or in my case, with drops of mineral oil. Even though the hair is coated with a protectant, you should still be very gentle handling that comb!

And I still stand by my statement, which Dr. Micael put in very large capital letters in his book "NEVER, NEVER BRUSH YOUR HAIR WHITE IT'S WET! He then explains "All hair has some elasticity to it--in fact, hair can stretch from one eighth to one sixth of its length, but fortunately [I]dry[I] hair can also shrink back. This isn't the case when the hair is wet. In a wet stage that stretched-out hair acts rather like an overstretched old rubber band. And you know what happens to worn out rubber bands. They snap. Forget the brush after shampooing; instead, use a wide tortoise-shell comb to smooth and untangle your hair."

Madora
November 28th, 2014, 06:06 PM
OK I did. So is it ok to brush my hair when full of conditioner with my BBB? No, ditch the brush until your hair is all dry! Use a wide tooth comb to deal with your hair when it is full of conditioner. All that stuff isn't good for your brush anyway!

Madora
November 28th, 2014, 06:09 PM
I know this.comment wasn't meant for me but I.wanted to.clarify you're supposed to comb in the shower, not brush. technically in cg method no brush should touch your hair, just comb.

speaking fragrantsnowm experience having curly hair, though not as curly as yours, I detangle.my hair with a wide tooth comb and.then.follow with a oiled sandalwood brush to make it wavy and smooth and manageable. I don't like leaving my hair stuck together in curls. I find it easier.to.manage and keep tangle free this way with all the strands smoothed out and going down. it definately does break up the curls into.waves. however I doubt this.would be quite as effective.for your hair type... I'd recommend stretching it via braids or stretching and.bobby pinning it around your head. I.learned how to.do that as a no.heat straightening.method from a black girls video on YouTube. I only mention she's black because you appear to be so you'd have somewhat similar hair. I'll try to fish it up!!!

Thank you for that clarification, cat11! Sure makes a lot more sense than brushing while the hair is wet! I do just that myself...use a comb to detangle while my hair is wet, with several drops of mineral oil in my hair to help with the detangling process. I've been doing it for years with no problems. It is all in how you use the comb, and how gentle you are with the detangling!

gthlvrmx
November 28th, 2014, 06:25 PM
Gthlvrmx, I want to be sure I am not misinterpreting your statement "I always read on here on LHC that hair is weakest when wet which is why it is best to brush your hair dry with a BBB!

Au contraire! I never advocated anything like that! You brush your hair when, and only AFTER, it is all dry! You don't brush it to help it along in the drying process! That's awful!

I have absolutely nothing against using a wide tooth COMB in the shower when detangling hair, as long as the hair is covered in conditioner...or in my case, with drops of mineral oil. Even though the hair is coated with a protectant, you should still be very gentle handling that comb!

And I still stand by my statement, which Dr. Micael put in very large capital letters in his book "NEVER, NEVER BRUSH YOUR HAIR WHITE IT'S WET! He then explains "All hair has some elasticity to it--in fact, hair can stretch from one eighth to one sixth of its length, but fortunately [I]dry[I] hair can also shrink back. This isn't the case when the hair is wet. In a wet stage that stretched-out hair acts rather like an overstretched old rubber band. And you know what happens to worn out rubber bands. They snap. Forget the brush after shampooing; instead, use a wide tortoise-shell comb to smooth and untangle your hair."
Oh my bad! I meant to say "I always read on here on LHC that hair is weakest when wet which is why it is best to brush your hair WHEN IT IS DRY with a BBB!" I wouldn't use a brush to help my hair with the drying process XD

No, ditch the brush until your hair is all dry! Use a wide tooth comb to deal with your hair when it is full of conditioner. All that stuff isn't good for your brush anyway!
OK thank you! I like that explanation from Dr. Micael.

Madora
November 28th, 2014, 06:36 PM
Oh my bad! I meant to say "I always read on here on LHC that hair is weakest when wet which is why it is best to brush your hair WHEN IT IS DRY with a BBB!" I wouldn't use a brush to help my hair with the drying process XD

OK thank you! I like that explanation from Dr. Micael. Thank God, you do not use a brush to help the drying process along, gthlvrmx! Are you tryin' ta give ole Madora a heart attack:)

gthlvrmx
November 28th, 2014, 06:44 PM
Thank God, you do not use a brush to help the drying process along, gthlvrmx! Are you tryin' ta give ole Madora a heart attack:)

Jajaja sorry about that! No i'm not trying to give you a heart attack that would be horrible!

ChloeDharma
November 28th, 2014, 08:03 PM
No BBB were never meant to be used wet. I'm talking Denman brushes and Tangle Teezers, especially made for such purpose.

I can see some of the denman ones being used that way as some have quite widely spaces bristles. I used to have an excellent two row comb from the body shop that was great for combing through conditioner back when I was a curly but sadly it got lost some years ago.

Wow all this controversy over brushing, it strikes me that like many things YMMV. At least we all seem to agree that wet brushing with a BBB is a bad idea!

GetMeToWaist
November 29th, 2014, 01:12 AM
GRU brushes her hair wet with a TT when coated in conditioner. Probably depends on your hairtype. I am 2b/2c and i use a wide tooth comb in the shower. I only brush my hair right before i wash it.

vega
November 29th, 2014, 02:42 AM
Hi guys I'm about to cry I experimented with my bbb using wide tooth comb first to detangle and after using bbb and it matted my hair given me a a massive dreadlock knot resulting in me cutting an inch off, making my hair journey longer should I just accept I'm never going to have long hair due to have curlyhair

Panth
November 29th, 2014, 02:49 AM
If your hair is very curly, then stick with a wide tooth comb. You CAN brush very curly hair with a boar bristle brush! It all depends on: 1) how you detangle your hair with a wide tooth comb BEFORE you brush, 2) the type of boar bristle brush you use (they are NOT all the same!) and 3) HOW YOU USE THE BRUSH!

If you have curly hair, your hair is curly before AND AFTER you use the brush! You just have to manipulate it a little to bring back the wave pattern. You don't kill waves by brushing your hair!

Ummmmm... 4a hair is not "waves". Have you seen this thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=7003)? There is absolutely no way that dry brushing, never mind dry brushing with a BBB, is appropriate for curly (3 or 4) hair.

Panth
November 29th, 2014, 02:52 AM
Hi guys I'm about to cry I experimented with my bbb using wide tooth comb first to detangle and after using bbb and it matted my hair given me a a massive dreadlock knot resulting in me cutting an inch off, making my hair journey longer should I just accept I'm never going to have long hair due to have curlyhair

*hugs* That's really upsetting, but please don't give up. Curly hair most definitely can become long. You just need to treat it like curly hair, not try to use straight-haired methods (e.g. using BBBs) on it. Have you read about the Curly Girl method?

vega
November 29th, 2014, 02:56 AM
*hugs* That's really upsetting, but please don't give up. Curly hair most definitely can become long. You just need to treat it like curly hair, not try to use straight-haired methods (e.g. using BBBs) on it. Have you read about the Curly Girl method?
Hi panth thanks for your hug x I have been doing curly girl for past 2 years an has been good but there has been so much hype over bbb and I think that's only for straight hairs ,I had to give my self a light trim feye method and my ends feel so much better, I've been noticing breakage in my hair the last few weeks so I think I was due for trim as my curly hair is delicate I think I'm not going to grow my hair overly long anymore as it just seems impossible and unmanagable

Panth
November 29th, 2014, 03:27 AM
Hi panth thanks for your hug x I have been doing curly girl for past 2 years an has been good but there has been so much hype over bbb and I think that's only for straight hairs ,I had to give my self a light trim feye method and my ends feel so much better, I've been noticing breakage in my hair the last few weeks so I think I was due for trim as my curly hair is delicate I think I'm not going to grow my hair overly long anymore as it just seems impossible and unmanagable

Unfortunately, the BBB / George Michael method is based on Victorian haircare - care that was practiced by and adapted for predominantly white, European ladies who were probably a 2c at maximum. Curls almost universally cannot be treated like straight hair, although waves can often get away with it.

I'd suggest you always check the hairtype of the person recommending methods before you follow their advice. People with C/iii hair can wear their hair loose with rather more impunity than someone with F/i hair. Likewise, a person with i hair quite probably might not realise that someone with iii hair is unlikely to be able to do a single, unsectioned bun before waist. The same is true of 1s/2s giving advice to 3s/4s - it's well-meaning but 3/4 hair is just not going to respond in the same way as 1/2 hair.

I bet you could get some good advice on the Wurly and Curly thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=369). Please don't give up hope.

Madora
November 29th, 2014, 03:43 AM
Hi panth thanks for your hug x I have been doing curly girl for past 2 years an has been good but there has been so much hype over bbb and I think that's only for straight hairs ,I had to give my self a light trim feye method and my ends feel so much better, I've been noticing breakage in my hair the last few weeks so I think I was due for trim as my curly hair is delicate I think I'm not going to grow my hair overly long anymore as it just seems impossible and unmanagable

Vega, since you have noticed breakage in your hair in the LAST TWO WEEKS (capitalized for emphasis, only, I am not shouting, thank you) what have you been doing to your hair in those 2 weeks? Have you been treating it differently? Using different products/hair tools?

I am sorry you had that large snarl and had to cut. The next time snarls happen (and they will), try putting a drop of mineral oil on the snarl. Then, hold the snarl/strands horizontally (not vertically, as that only tightens the snarl/mat) and use your fingers to gently undo the snarl. Work both sides of the snarl, not just one side.

As for growing long: it is true that very long lengths are usually those people who have straight, wavy, moderately wavy, or very wavy hair. You rarely see long haired curlies...but they ARE out there!

Because of the structure of their hair tight curlies have very delicate hair. It breaks easily. Thus caring for it is difficult and you have to have LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of patience!

Frankly, judging from your comments, you don't. I'm apologize if that is harsh..but that's how I see it. You must realize that growing hair - of any type - is a question of patience and TIME...Years spent in coddling it and protecting it. It's all in the mindset...how much time and effort you are willing to devote to that ultimate goal of long hair.

I know you are disappointed that you just can't grow it long, but short hair can be just as beautiful as long hair. I've seen several examples here, and in real life too. It all boils down to how much attention to detail you want to do, how patient you are, and how your hair responds to your hair care regimen. Good luck!

sarahthegemini
November 29th, 2014, 03:56 AM
Most of those hairbrushes in that video link made me cringe. Reinforced boar bristle is not pure boar bristle! Two of the brushes had way two many rows! Too many rows means a devil of a time getting that brush through your hair.

If your hair is very curly, then stick with a wide tooth comb. You CAN brush very curly hair with a boar bristle brush! It all depends on: 1) how you detangle your hair with a wide tooth comb BEFORE you brush, 2) the type of boar bristle brush you use (they are NOT all the same!) and 3) HOW YOU USE THE BRUSH!

If you have curly hair, your hair is curly before AND AFTER you use the brush! You just have to manipulate it a little to bring back the wave pattern. You don't kill waves by brushing your hair!

If you do not have the patience for brushing, then stick with using - daily - a wide tooth comb, with no seams or sharp edges. Keep it squeaky clean too. Good luck!


For the sake of your hair, never brush it when it is WET! It is weakest when it is wet and therefore you will damage it when you brush it wet! Don't do it!

Madora, please stop preaching your hair care practices. Whilst they may work for you, it simply isn't suitable for curly hair. And stop relying on George Michael who evidently had no clue how to treat anything other than straight hair.

OP - I would not recommend brushing daily with your hair type unless your hair is wet and covered in conditioner I wouldn't let a brush go near it.

M.McDonough
November 29th, 2014, 04:34 AM
I personally seldom brush my hair. I just run my fingers through my hair because it really ticks me off when some hair gets tangled in the comb

ChloeDharma
November 29th, 2014, 07:58 AM
Hi panth thanks for your hug x I have been doing curly girl for past 2 years an has been good but there has been so much hype over bbb and I think that's only for straight hairs ,I had to give my self a light trim feye method and my ends feel so much better, I've been noticing breakage in my hair the last few weeks so I think I was due for trim as my curly hair is delicate I think I'm not going to grow my hair overly long anymore as it just seems impossible and unmanagable

This makes me sad. A BBB is not essential to grow long hair, it works for some of us but as you have found, it doesn't work for everyone. There are other ways to stimulate your scalp like massage which also can move sebum down the lengh somewhat. I hope you take this lesson as just a learning curve and continue to grow the hair you want, as long as you have a long enough anagen phase to get to the length you want then it absolutely IS possible!

Annalouise
November 29th, 2014, 08:53 AM
I have Fine 2b hair and I can attest to Madora's detangling and bbb methods. I will say that it has brought me quite a bit of new growth combined with stopping the use of chemicals on my scalp.

The key which Madora always emphasizes and its HARD to learn this is the PATIENCE and the SLOWNESS of the process. It takes TIME.
Sometimes it takes me 30 min to detangle before I can use a bbb.

This is not for the impatient soul. I had to LEARN to be slow and patient. When I get impatient and I start to pull the bbb through my hair QUICKLY it will just get snagged and caught. (and I don't have the optimal bbb so that doesn't help either).

If you are using the CORRECT tools, and IF you are using the technique slowly and diligently it DOES work.

But I think people just want a quick fix. The quick dumping of a ton of product on their hair. That is fine, but in the old days people didn't have a ton of product to buy in the first place. Yet they grew extraordinary lengths of healthy hair.

It takes TIME and patience. :blossom:

Annalouise
November 29th, 2014, 09:02 AM
Unfortunately, the BBB / George Michael method is based on Victorian haircare - care that was practiced by and adapted for predominantly white, European ladies who were probably a 2c at maximum. Curls almost universally cannot be treated like straight hair, although waves can often get away with it.

I'd suggest you always check the hairtype of the person recommending methods before you follow their advice. People with C/iii hair can wear their hair loose with rather more impunity than someone with F/i hair. Likewise, a person with i hair quite probably might not realise that someone with iii hair is unlikely to be able to do a single, unsectioned bun before waist. The same is true of 1s/2s giving advice to 3s/4s - it's well-meaning but 3/4 hair is just not going to respond in the same way as 1/2 hair.

I bet you could get some good advice on the Wurly and Curly thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=369). Please don't give up hope.

Panth, I gotta say I love your posts! I have learned quite a bit from your posts. But still, its funny when you say Europeans don't have curly hair!? What!? I know a ton of white European descendants who have EXTREMELY curly hair, African American CURLY hair. Haven't you ever seen white people with curly hair???? Seriously?
I do love your posts don't take this the wrong way.:p

Panth
November 29th, 2014, 10:03 AM
Panth, I gotta say I love your posts! I have learned quite a bit from your posts. But still, its funny when you say Europeans don't have curly hair!? What!? I know a ton of white European descendants who have EXTREMELY curly hair, African American CURLY hair. Haven't you ever seen white people with curly hair???? Seriously?
I do love your posts don't take this the wrong way.:p

Thank you! Nice to know my natural waffly nature is good for something. :p

And yeah, there are some people with 100% European heritage and 3 or 4 hair. Definitely happens, particularly with some colours (e.g. redheads). It's fairly uncommon, though, even now in modern Western society where the taboo on mixed-race sex/marriage is mostly gone. What I meant to say was: the vast majority of women in the late 1800s and early 1900s who practiced the BBB technique had hair of 1a-2c texture. (And I bet the few that had 3a-4c texture and tried the BBB technique had some serious floof and tangles, just like now.) :)

lacefrost
November 29th, 2014, 10:13 AM
Hi ladies,

Please let me know if you think brushing is damaging to hair. I want to adapt a style that involves daily brushing. If you would like an idea what style and technique I'm talking about, this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcDURNf7yaI) may help. Do you think brushing my hair to "stretch" it into waves will lead to breakage? Thanks!

Considering the length of your hair, you could do that and it wouldn't be terrible. You just want to make sure your hair is damp with product and that you are brushing very gently. I've never seen anyone's hair make perfect 360 waves like that though so if your hair doesn't turn out like that, it might just be your hair type. It looks like his hair type could be 3c/4a and fine, which is not the hair type you have listed. My boyfriend can get waves on top of his head but the sides and back just curl too tightly. It's also a function of hair length, so if your hair is too long or too short, it might not happen. It says that you want to grow your hair to be 60cm. So considering that average rate of growth is 1.27cm a month, it won't be long before your hair is too long to have waves. I would say you'd be better off trying to find cute TWA styles cause that's the length you'll be at shortly.

lapushka
November 29th, 2014, 10:21 AM
OK I did. So is it ok to brush my hair when full of conditioner with my BBB?

No never use a BBB wet! Use any other brush, like a Denman or Tangle Teezer.

lapushka
November 29th, 2014, 10:23 AM
I have Fine 2b hair and I can attest to Madora's detangling and bbb methods. I will say that it has brought me quite a bit of new growth combined with stopping the use of chemicals on my scalp.

The key which Madora always emphasizes and its HARD to learn this is the PATIENCE and the SLOWNESS of the process. It takes TIME.
Sometimes it takes me 30 min to detangle before I can use a bbb.

This is not for the impatient soul. I had to LEARN to be slow and patient. When I get impatient and I start to pull the bbb through my hair QUICKLY it will just get snagged and caught. (and I don't have the optimal bbb so that doesn't help either).

If you are using the CORRECT tools, and IF you are using the technique slowly and diligently it DOES work.

But I think people just want a quick fix. The quick dumping of a ton of product on their hair. That is fine, but in the old days people didn't have a ton of product to buy in the first place. Yet they grew extraordinary lengths of healthy hair.

It takes TIME and patience. :blossom:

I'm sorry but with my texture, this does *nothing* for me. And I doubt that there are many curlies who benefit from BB brushing much, esp. if they still want to preserve their curls and that's exactly what it's all about with wet brushing!

They are just different techniques, and you have to know when to use which one. They both have their time and place, and you have to figure it out for yourself. You can't just go around announcing to everyone that wet brushing can't happen - sorry, but come on!

Madora
November 29th, 2014, 10:47 AM
I'm sorry but with my texture, this does *nothing* for me. And I doubt that there are many curlies who benefit from BB brushing much, esp. if they still want to preserve their curls and that's exactly what it's all about with wet brushing!

They are just different techniques, and you have to know when to use which one. They both have their time and place, and you have to figure it out for yourself. You can't just go around announcing to everyone that wet brushing can't happen - sorry, but come on!

It strikes me as common sense that A) everyone knows that curly/wurly hair is very delicate and needs to be handled gently and slowly if you don't want to ruin it. If Dr. George Michael, a well respected expert in the science of long hair care, who has seen more types of heads of hair than most of us will ever see, says in his book - in capital letters - NEVER, NEVER BRUSH YOUR HAIR WHILE IT'S WET, don't you think he has had the experience to make this claim? Therefore B) it would seem highly damaging to use a brush, of any kind, on delicate curly/wurly hair -- or any type of hair - when it was wet. Common sense! You don't want to use a damaging tool on hair that is already delicate!

Use a wide tooth comb and NOT a brush when shampooing or conditioning. It just makes sense to be as gentle as possible during these sessions...and a wide tooth comb is the tool to use..if you want to do it gently.

jeanniet
November 29th, 2014, 11:30 AM
Don't use a BBB on wet hair. But a BBB should be used seldom to never on type 3/4 hair. Curly hair doesn't benefit from that kind of brushing.

Dr. Michael was not a curly hair expert. It's pretty clear that he didn't care for it and didn't know how to handle it. His standard styling was to roller set hair, all hair, regardless of type. Believe it or not, plenty of people with curly hair want it curly. A roller set is not going to accomplish that.

It's also obvious that many of those Victorian ladies with very long hair had type 2 or even 3, maybe 4 hair. Look at the pictures. You can see how it fluffs out at the bottom--that's classic wavy/curly hair brushed out. It's less obvious than with shorter hair because length and weight will help pull out waves and curls, but it's pretty clear that not all that hair is type 1.

So again, it is possible to brush to detangle curly hair, while wet, while soaked with conditioner. Not with a BBB, but with something like a TT or Denman. Many curlies do. Terri LaFlesh does, and she's about at TBL. I don't use a comb because it pulls my hair more than a brush and doesn't detangle or remove shed hair as well.

Bottom line, curly hair needs to be approached differently than straight hair. Dr. Michael's techniques may work for straight to slightly wavy hair. They really aren't appropriate for truly curly hair. And it seems common sense to me that, if someone has figured out how to simply and easily maintain their curly hair, that what they do does indeed work. There are many, MANY curlies out there who changed technique and have healthier hair that looks the way it's supposed to look.

AnnaLouise, again, you're talking about wavy hair--mid-wavy hair--NOT curly hair. The closer you move to type 3, the less these techniques will work. That's why so many curlies are unhappy with their hair until they figure it out, because they're trying to do what everyone else does. What Dr. Michael said to do. And it does. not. work.

piscesbaby
November 29th, 2014, 12:38 PM
All I know is, I am willing to do whatever my hair needs me to do!!! But I don't know what that is haha!!! Anyway I decided to NOT to brush my hair, wet or dry. Here's what my hair did this morning, after a wash, deep condition, rinse, leave-in conditioner and a spritz of oil mist.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/RqaXfJnZUR4gyNBnyQ1oVoHGQuat-bPh4-dM780JXbo=s196-p-no

DragonAngel
November 29th, 2014, 12:57 PM
since we are banging on and on about boar bristle brushes can someone please send a link for where I can buy a suitable bbb for thick wavy hair ? There are so many choices and not sure if they are even pure, have suitable rows, suitable shape etc etc. I don't want to waste my money and have to buy another brush after finding out the one I bought is UNsuitable.
:p

sarahthegemini
November 29th, 2014, 01:19 PM
It strikes me as common sense that A) everyone knows that curly/wurly hair is very delicate and needs to be handled gently and slowly if you don't want to ruin it. If Dr. George Michael, a well respected expert in the science of long hair care, who has seen more types of heads of hair than most of us will ever see, says in his book - in capital letters - NEVER, NEVER BRUSH YOUR HAIR WHILE IT'S WET, don't you think he has had the experience to make this claim? Therefore B) it would seem highly damaging to use a brush, of any kind, on delicate curly/wurly hair -- or any type of hair - when it was wet. Common sense! You don't want to use a damaging tool on hair that is already delicate!

Use a wide tooth comb and NOT a brush when shampooing or conditioning. It just makes sense to be as gentle as possible during these sessions...and a wide tooth comb is the tool to use..if you want to do it gently.

He is not 'an expert in the science of hair care' He is a glorified hairdresser who, I'll repeat, had not a clue how curly hair should be treated. Please stop treating his preaching as gospel.

two_wheels
November 29th, 2014, 01:27 PM
since we are banging on and on about boar bristle brushes can someone please send a link for where I can buy a suitable bbb for thick wavy hair ? There are so many choices and not sure if they are even pure, have suitable rows, suitable shape etc etc. I don't want to waste my money and have to buy another brush after finding out the one I bought is UNsuitable.
:p

I think they have Kent ones in Boots.

They do make my wavy hair rather floofy so I'd try it before bed the first time if you are set on buying one. The triangle head calms down by morning :)

If I were wavier than I am (2a) I probably wouldn't bother to be honest. I would never detangle with one. They are good for turning mild waves into the big Hollywood type waves, rather than little tentacles if you see what I mean. And they feel nice. If someone made me choose between my wide tooth comb and my mason pearson bbb, I'd pick the comb every time. It's indispensable. Having both is nice though.

I don't want to tread on anyone's toes but I think the wet brushing thing might be a disagreement on terminology. Some people (ok, me in the past) do use a bristle brush on wet hair. I got so much breakage from that. I personally would only use a comb now, but I can see why some people use tangle teezers or denmans, they seem like a grey area in between. Just check your ends and if you hear snapping, whatever you do, stop! :)

ChloeDharma
November 29th, 2014, 01:52 PM
I think it's also worth considering that denman brushes vary and though some have quills that are tightly packed together others are more widely spaced apart. I can see how these could be used to brush hair smothered in conditioner as they do not really drag the hair like a brush with more tightly packed quills would. I agree with two_wheels in that this may be more an issue about what people think of when they visualise a brush. There are so many out there with a variety of tensions created on the shaft. Lapushka I think specified that brushes like a BBB would not be suitable and I also think that it would be rude to tell people who have success using this method that they are wrong and it doesn't work. If it's working for them then surely that resolves the matter?

I'm struggling to remember for sure what the point of this thread was now but wasn't the OP looking for a way to straighten their hair? Maybe there are some thoughts on this that might help them?

spirals
November 29th, 2014, 02:10 PM
Curly hair isn't always delicate. Mine is somewhat coarse. My ends are damaged and thin from coloring, though. I do brush my hair because I like to have a change of pace from the curls. I use a brush with plastic non-tipped bristles that are spaced somewhat wide apart. I always use detangler to do so. I have a wide-toothed comb, but it only works on my wet hair, so I use the brush on dry hair. I use my BBB on my detangled hair, and I lightly spray the brush with oil if I need an oil application. I do get some damage from brushing, but I accept that because I like the big waves. I wear it curly on wash day because I air-dry and that's my default for the day.

DragonAngel, I got one at Sally Beauty. It has short BB tufts and longer nylon non-tipped bristles. It works really well for me. I have a loooot of hair. Found it: http://www.sallybeauty.com/boar-brush/SBS-217525,default,pd.html

lapushka
November 29th, 2014, 02:56 PM
All I know is, I am willing to do whatever my hair needs me to do!!! But I don't know what that is haha!!! Anyway I decided to NOT to brush my hair, wet or dry. Here's what my hair did this morning, after a wash, deep condition, rinse, leave-in conditioner and a spritz of oil mist.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/RqaXfJnZUR4gyNBnyQ1oVoHGQuat-bPh4-dM780JXbo=s196-p-no

Not brushing it at all is always an option. But you need to detangle somehow. Take a look at this site. If this woman's hair doesn't inspire you, then I don't know what will. ;) She wet brushes, BTW.
http://www.tightlycurly.com/welcome

lapushka
November 29th, 2014, 02:57 PM
Don't use a BBB on wet hair. But a BBB should be used seldom to never on type 3/4 hair. Curly hair doesn't benefit from that kind of brushing.

Dr. Michael was not a curly hair expert. It's pretty clear that he didn't care for it and didn't know how to handle it. His standard styling was to roller set hair, all hair, regardless of type. Believe it or not, plenty of people with curly hair want it curly. A roller set is not going to accomplish that.

It's also obvious that many of those Victorian ladies with very long hair had type 2 or even 3, maybe 4 hair. Look at the pictures. You can see how it fluffs out at the bottom--that's classic wavy/curly hair brushed out. It's less obvious than with shorter hair because length and weight will help pull out waves and curls, but it's pretty clear that not all that hair is type 1.

So again, it is possible to brush to detangle curly hair, while wet, while soaked with conditioner. Not with a BBB, but with something like a TT or Denman. Many curlies do. Terri LaFlesh does, and she's about at TBL. I don't use a comb because it pulls my hair more than a brush and doesn't detangle or remove shed hair as well.

Bottom line, curly hair needs to be approached differently than straight hair. Dr. Michael's techniques may work for straight to slightly wavy hair. They really aren't appropriate for truly curly hair. And it seems common sense to me that, if someone has figured out how to simply and easily maintain their curly hair, that what they do does indeed work. There are many, MANY curlies out there who changed technique and have healthier hair that looks the way it's supposed to look.

AnnaLouise, again, you're talking about wavy hair--mid-wavy hair--NOT curly hair. The closer you move to type 3, the less these techniques will work. That's why so many curlies are unhappy with their hair until they figure it out, because they're trying to do what everyone else does. What Dr. Michael said to do. And it does. not. work.

I fully agree with jeanniet. Madora, please say something like YMMV if you ever talk about dry brushing only again. It's not the be all and end all!

Madora
November 29th, 2014, 03:08 PM
I fully agree with jeanniet. Madora, please say something like YMMV if you ever talk about dry brushing only again. It's not the be all and end all!

Lapushka, do I ever tell you how to word your posts? Have the courtesy not to tell me how to word mine. I assume that the readers here on LHC are intelligent enough to draw their own conclusions. No where in Dr. Michael's book does he warn people with curly hair not to brush. If you find my posts untenable, then put me on ignore.

DarleneH
November 29th, 2014, 03:19 PM
I found my copy of "Curly Girl Handbook" today and flipped through it. I read all the suggested methods for the different curl types, and every time when applying conditioner she said to use your fingers to detangle. She didn't mention brushes in those sections at all, and I will have to go back and read the whole book to see if she mentions brushes anywhere else. I will try to find time to do that to see if gives any helpful info here.

lapushka
November 29th, 2014, 03:29 PM
Lapushka, do I ever tell you how to word your posts? Have the courtesy not to tell me how to word mine. I assume that the readers here on LHC are intelligent enough to draw their own conclusions. No where in Dr. Michael's book does he warn people with curly hair not to brush. If you find my posts untenable, then put me on ignore.

I think you're overreacting just a tad now. YMMV is a common courtesy. Nobody preaches on LHC, but yet you seem to want to do it constantly, taking George Michael's words for gospel. That upsets not only me, I'm betting.

jeanniet
November 29th, 2014, 04:19 PM
Brushing while wet to detangle curly hair isn't CG; it's a tightly curly method (Terri LaFlesh).

It's really somewhat insulting to keep hearing that you're doing something HORRIBLE to your hair, especially when it's based on advice from someone who clearly dealt with a different hair type.

Anje
November 29th, 2014, 04:20 PM
Mod hat on:
OK folks, let's keep this civil and not keep calling each other out.

We don't all have the same hair or the same scalps - it's only logical that what works for some people won't universally work for everyone. Likewise, most or all of us give advice based on what we've found to work really well for us personally, and it's reasonable to do so. That's one of the reasons we display hair type data with user info: people are more likely to find suggestions useful from hair types that are more like their own. That's ok.

lapushka
November 29th, 2014, 04:27 PM
Brushing while wet to detangle curly hair isn't CG; it's a tightly curly method (Terri LaFlesh).

It's really somewhat insulting to keep hearing that you're doing something HORRIBLE to your hair, especially when it's based on advice from someone who clearly dealt with a different hair type.

Teri LaFlesh really has gorgeous hair! And if her hair hasn't proven that wet brushing works for curlies, then I don't know what does prove that it's not harmful. YMMV. As always.

I used to use a BBB, but I ditched it when I wanted my waves to come out, and started using my Tangle Teezer mostly (I also have a Denman but I don't use it that often). I don't wet brush, but I wet comb. And I know that wet brushing exists and is a thing. I don't close my eyes off to it.

two_wheels
November 29th, 2014, 04:29 PM
Her hair is indeed jawdroppingly amazing :agape:

jeanniet
November 29th, 2014, 04:42 PM
In general I think wet brushing is done more often by higher 3s and 4s, and less so by 3a types. I just happened to find that it works much better for my hair, for whatever reason. BTW, my stylist (a curly hair specialist who is amazingly good at cutting curly hair) wasn't happy with the idea of my brushing wet either, so I promised to try comb/fingers again. Tried it, looked like crap, went back to the brush. Last time I saw her, I told her I was still brushing and she said my hair looked so good I should just keep doing whatever was working. YMMV.

Annalouise
November 29th, 2014, 07:14 PM
I just want to say one more thing. I hear ya'll and I respect your opinions because we're all trying to find the 'holy grail' of hair care.

But here's the thing, growing up I had a friend, a Jewish girl, she has AMAZING THICK CURLY hair. I was just a small child but when I went to her house to play I always had to wait and wait for her to be finished her grooming. Her mother would BRUSH her curls for it seemed like an eternity. I was a stupid tomboy kid who's mother never groomed anything except to cut my hair short. She said "IT"S TOO TANGLY!!!"
and out come the scissors.

This girlfriend of mine had the most amazing thick head of curls I EVER saw on a white kid and her mother was sooo diligent in brushing her hair.

So I'm just saying: Don't say that because you have type 3/4 curls you shouldn't brush your hair because ... its not true.

And here's the other thing, how can a man, who's entire LIFE work is built on growing long hair....how can he NOT have treated curly haired girls??? He has salons in American and Europe and you're telling me he just told the curly girls to get on out because he had nothing for them?! C'mon people.

Let's be reasonable. Obviously his hair care routine worked or he wouldn't have been able to make a career out of it.

jeanniet
November 29th, 2014, 10:51 PM
I didn't say he didn't treat curly hair. I said he didn't know how to handle it--as curly hair. Roller setting curly hair to make it wavy isn't treating it as curly.

People do brush curly hair dry. In general, you have better results if you don't.

Sarahlabyrinth
November 30th, 2014, 03:30 AM
I am not sure how Mr. Michael would have treated very curly hair, he certainly does not talk about it much in his book. Surely though, he must have handled/treated it though.

DarleneH
November 30th, 2014, 05:02 AM
Yeah, all the experts (Teri LaFlesh, Lorraine Massey, George Michael) whose opinions we look to don't even agree.

lapushka
November 30th, 2014, 05:19 AM
Yeah, all the experts (Teri LaFlesh, Lorraine Massey, George Michael) whose opinions we look to don't even agree.

That's why we generally don't preach, and say YMMV. Usually. ;) I forget too, you know. ;)

Elly May
November 30th, 2014, 05:34 AM
Sorry for my ignorance, but what does YMMV mean? Thanks!

GetMeToWaist
November 30th, 2014, 05:38 AM
Sorry for my ignorance, but what does YMMV mean? Thanks!

i was wondering that too.

ETA: just looked it up. it means your mileage may vary.

GetMeToWaist
November 30th, 2014, 05:40 AM
Not brushing it at all is always an option. But you need to detangle somehow. Take a look at this site. If this woman's hair doesn't inspire you, then I don't know what will. ;) She wet brushes, BTW.
http://www.tightlycurly.com/welcome

her hair afterwards :popcorn::happydance::applause

DragonAngel
November 30th, 2014, 06:37 AM
Curly hair isn't always delicate. Mine is somewhat coarse. My ends are damaged and thin from coloring, though. I do brush my hair because I like to have a change of pace from the curls. I use a brush with plastic non-tipped bristles that are spaced somewhat wide apart. I always use detangler to do so. I have a wide-toothed comb, but it only works on my wet hair, so I use the brush on dry hair. I use my BBB on my detangled hair, and I lightly spray the brush with oil if I need an oil application. I do get some damage from brushing, but I accept that because I like the big waves. I wear it curly on wash day because I air-dry and that's my default for the day.

DragonAngel, I got one at Sally Beauty. It has short BB tufts and longer nylon non-tipped bristles. It works really well for me. I have a loooot of hair. Found it: http://www.sallybeauty.com/boar-brush/SBS-217525,default,pd.html

ah thanks, I have a brush already with longer nylon tipped bristles. But Sally products is worth a look thankyou x

jeanniet
November 30th, 2014, 01:39 PM
Yeah, all the experts (Teri LaFlesh, Lorraine Massey, George Michael) whose opinions we look to don't even agree.

The curly hair gurus really aren't all that far apart. Their advice is generally pretty similar with a few variations, but it all more or less boils down to more moisture, being careful with ingredients, wet detangling, leave in, etc. TightlyCurly is also targeted at a more specific hair type than CG. But it's not at all like George Michael's, of course. Their approach is meant to bring out curls, his is really meant to suppress them into waves at most.

lapushka
November 30th, 2014, 04:37 PM
The curly hair gurus really aren't all that far apart. Their advice is generally pretty similar with a few variations, but it all more or less boils down to more moisture, being careful with ingredients, wet detangling, leave in, etc. TightlyCurly is also targeted at a more specific hair type than CG. But it's not at all like George Michael's, of course. Their approach is meant to bring out curls, his is really meant to suppress them into waves at most.

Yes, and anyone that knows me knows I'm not much into suppressing my wavy texture. A lot of that happened in my teens and twenties. It took until my thirties for the waves to properly form and come out. So if I can prevent the same kind of frustration for a fellow wavy/curly, then you can be sure I'm fighting that battle!

CurlyCap
November 30th, 2014, 10:26 PM
Piscesbaby:

1. Please join the kinky4 (and maybe even the Type 3) threads and introduce yourself. While I love LHC and it's my chosen hair forum, despite many of the other online options, there is a lot to be said about discussing your hair with people who understand your hair type. Curly hair, especially Type 4 hair, is in many ways an entirely different world of hair care and it can be confusing at first, especially when you don't see it heavily represented on a hair board. But we'll take good care of you! Come over and play.

(Kinky 4s) http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=1881
(Type 3s) http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=96338

2. Remember that 'wavecaps/doorags with boar bristle brushing' is a hairdo essentially designed for shorter hair. So using that method to attempt to "tame" your hair won't work when your hair gets much longer than 1cm. As lacefrost said, you will be quickly in the land of a TWA. As your hair grows longer, the name of the game is going to be learning how to co-wash your hair and detangle it, while preventing the shrinkage from your hair texture causing your hair to retangle DURING your detangling process. We can talk about this at length in either of the above threads, but basically it's going to be a long convo about learning to cowash and detangle your hair in twists/sections.

As for the rest:
I'm another to vote that curly hair is best detangled wet while full of conditioner. For very curly hair, a BBB is at best a styling tool to create a smooth canopy for certain updos. Dry brushing is possible, but it ultimately breaks the curls and should be thought of more as a scalp massage than as a styling approach. It pains me every time I hear people argue variations of "if it works for straight hair, it must be the gospel truth" because I truly believe that mentality is why so many curlies out there are walking around unhappy with frizzy, dry hair.

lapushka
December 1st, 2014, 04:42 AM
As for the rest:
I'm another to vote that curly hair is best detangled wet while full of conditioner. For very curly hair, a BBB is at best a styling tool to create a smooth canopy for certain updos. Dry brushing is possible, but it ultimately breaks the curls and should be thought of more as a scalp massage than as a styling approach. It pains me every time I hear people argue variations of "if it works for straight hair, it must be the gospel truth" because I truly believe that mentality is why so many curlies out there are walking around unhappy with frizzy, dry hair.

Quoted for Truth!

meteor
December 1st, 2014, 03:41 PM
I find detangling method to be a pretty individual choice, because way too much depends on your hair's structure, thickness, resilience...
Personally, I can handle a brush only as a final polishing/smoothing/styling tool - so it's pretty unnecessary for me, and I don't use it. But I have to use fingers or a wide-tooth comb.
I know some people who find fingers and combs too rough, but brushes have enough give and elasticity to them, so they prefer brushes.

No matter what the price, reputation, reviews, other people say, pay close attention only to how your hair responds to that tool. If you hear any snapped hairs, see that hair gets "stuck" to the brush/comb and it gets difficult to detangle, if you get static, of if it otherwise feels uncomfortable, it's not the best tool for you. I think once you find the right comb/brush for your hair, you really feel and even see the difference right away - ideally, it really should glide through hair like butter.

As for your original question about the straightening effect of brushes, I suspect it wouldn't work so well on 4a-c curls, because it can result in poof where the curl pattern is broken up. Instead, I'd look into something like wrapping damp stretched hair in silk scarf, caterpillar braids, wrapping hair around the head overnight (while also sleeping on silk satin) and other heatless straightening methods out there... Some products (heavy on silicones and oils, usually) can help a tiny bit, too.

jeanniet
December 1st, 2014, 04:13 PM
Piscesbaby:

1. Please join the kinky4 (and maybe even the Type 3) threads and introduce yourself. While I love LHC and it's my chosen hair forum, despite many of the other online options, there is a lot to be said about discussing your hair with people who understand your hair type. Curly hair, especially Type 4 hair, is in many ways an entirely different world of hair care and it can be confusing at first, especially when you don't see it heavily represented on a hair board. But we'll take good care of you! Come over and play.

(Kinky 4s) http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=1881
(Type 3s) http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=96338

2. Remember that 'wavecaps/doorags with boar bristle brushing' is a hairdo essentially designed for shorter hair. So using that method to attempt to "tame" your hair won't work when your hair gets much longer than 1cm. As lacefrost said, you will be quickly in the land of a TWA. As your hair grows longer, the name of the game is going to be learning how to co-wash your hair and detangle it, while preventing the shrinkage from your hair texture causing your hair to retangle DURING your detangling process. We can talk about this at length in either of the above threads, but basically it's going to be a long convo about learning to cowash and detangle your hair in twists/sections.

As for the rest:
I'm another to vote that curly hair is best detangled wet while full of conditioner. For very curly hair, a BBB is at best a styling tool to create a smooth canopy for certain updos. Dry brushing is possible, but it ultimately breaks the curls and should be thought of more as a scalp massage than as a styling approach. It pains me every time I hear people argue variations of "if it works for straight hair, it must be the gospel truth" because I truly believe that mentality is why so many curlies out there are walking around unhappy with frizzy, dry hair.

Excellent post, thank you.

vega
December 2nd, 2014, 03:19 AM
Hi guys I know there has been hype over bbb brushes but if you have curly hair steer away from bbb, it's damaging makes hair frizzy and matted, people embracing bbb have straight hair and don't understand curly hair good luck yall

Siowiel
December 2nd, 2014, 03:59 AM
Well, even I with straight hair use a brush (also a bbb) sparingly, before washing to remove loose hairs or to get a smooth finish for certain updos. The amount of brushing sometimes recommended here would give me split ends with no end, my hair is too thin and fragile for extensive brushing. If I want a scalp massage, I use my fingers.

Dewdrop
December 2nd, 2014, 04:06 AM
I might be totally evil (muhaha) but I always brush my hair when it's wet. I don't have any damage except for the last 0,5 cm because I do it very, very gently. In my experience the bigger the brush the better, mine is a huge square paddle one. I think that's because a lot of hair is slowly and gently pulled to where it should be, and that way you don't tighten any knots accidentally. Ofc when there's a huge snarl I patiently pull out every single hair one by one until it's gone, sometimes leaving a few fairyknots out, but that's acceptable imo. But for detangling purposes I use a brush. with a comb I always end up breaking a ton of hair.
Now this might not go for curlies, my hair is straight as a pin, but it was just to show that wet brushing isn't the endboss of evilness. if I wait until its dry to detangle the knots will have 'dried in' and damaged the hair that way,.. but it could not work for everyone obviously!

veryhairyfairy
December 2nd, 2014, 05:41 AM
Well, even I with straight hair use a brush (also a bbb) sparingly, before washing to remove loose hairs or to get a smooth finish for certain updos. The amount of brushing sometimes recommended here would give me split ends with no end, my hair is too thin and fragile for extensive brushing. If I want a scalp massage, I use my fingers.

I had the same experience with my wonderful (and high-quality) BBB. :( It felt nice, and gave my roots nice shine, but it broke my hair so thoroughly that it was obvious less than a week after I started using it daily.
(I think my week of George Michael's BBB technique is the reason my ends got so thin so fast)

I also spent my entire life until last year detangling my wet hair with a brush like this. (http://www.goody.com/~/media/Images/Products/Style/GelousGrip_cushionbrush_Detail.ashx) After using a wide tooth comb only for the last year, I tried using my Denman brush to detangle last wash and I felt no difference in terms of hair pulling, knots forming, and sheds coming out.
The only reason I don't really like wet brushing anymore is because it seems to pull every little bit of baby wave my hair can muster... but it does leave it nice and detangled. :)

meteor
December 2nd, 2014, 10:31 AM
Well, even I with straight hair use a brush (also a bbb) sparingly, before washing to remove loose hairs or to get a smooth finish for certain updos. The amount of brushing sometimes recommended here would give me split ends with no end, my hair is too thin and fragile for extensive brushing. If I want a scalp massage, I use my fingers.

Sowiel and veryhairylady, I'm in the same camp as you. :) When I dropped brushing, it was obviously good for my hair, because I stopped developing new split ends. I used to have to trim splits every 3-6 months, but now I only trim to even out the uneven growth every 1-3 years. Sure, I like to oil my hair now and then and I wear hair up, but dropping a tool that was causing me mechanical damage was probably an important factor there. I could probably still use a very soft brush as a massager or polisher on detangled, oiled hair, but it's too fussy for me.
If you get splits rather frequently and/or get some breakage (bulb-less hairs during brushing), reconsider your tools and how you use them and analyze all sources of damage your hair might be suffering from.

Wosie
December 2nd, 2014, 10:52 AM
Sowiel and veryhairylady, I'm in the same camp as you. :) When I dropped brushing, it was obviously good for my hair, because I stopped developing new split ends. I used to have to trim splits every 3-6 months, but now I only trim to even out the uneven growth every 1-3 years. Sure, I like to oil my hair now and then and I wear hair up, but dropping a tool that was causing me mechanical damage was probably an important factor there. I could probably still use a very soft brush as a massager or polisher on detangled, oiled hair, but it's too fussy for me.
If you get splits rather frequently and/or get some breakage (bulb-less hairs during brushing), reconsider your tools and how you use them and analyze all sources of damage your hair might be suffering from.

How do you detangle these days, by fingercombing or with a comb (if so, which kind)? I'm trying my best to lay off my brushing habits (...my favourite one is a ball-tipped vent brush), but it ain't easy.

rowie
December 2nd, 2014, 11:55 AM
I think for people with really curly hair, than the curly girl method is a good option. I have 1c-2c mixed texture and the curly girl method does not work for me because only the wavy texture would get defined well while some of my straight hairs will look limp. The curly girl method looks hideous on me because I definitely see all all my textures very well. It looks like someone took a curling iron on my hair and didn't finish my entire head because all the waves and some curls clump together while all my straight hairs under my canopy hang straight. Not a good look to have well defined waves and curls and then see straight hairs mixed in. Plus I don't like all the junk I'd put in my hair. It's disgusting for me because I work in a dusty environment and to have gels and a bunch of stuff only catches more dust on my hair and makes the dust stay in my hair making it a dust magnet. With the curly girl method I find I have to wash my hair everyday! I don't know how people can tolerate washing long hair everyday or many times a week because I personally feel like whenever I wash my hair, it's the most damaging sensation I get with seeing so many hairs break and snap no matter how careful I am. Which is why I wash my hair once a month because I'm too paranoid.

Since I like to wash my hair once a month I really have to have a very simple routine as you can get. I do use a bbb brush when my hair is dry because I'm dependent on it cleaning only my scalp from debris, lint or anything dirty it catches from the environment. I will only brush my hair with a bbb to clean the scalp and spread my sebum midway down the length. I find my ends are fragile and so instead I'll oil my ends with mineral oil whenever it feels or gets dry. I don't brush my entire length with a bbb just for clarification. I think if you have wavy hair you can go either way. I find my hair does get straighter and tamed with a bbb brush, but then again that could be because I already have some straight haired mixed into my multi textured hair. I wear my hair up everyday and so texture is no longer a concern for me.

meteor
December 2nd, 2014, 03:22 PM
How do you detangle these days, by fingercombing or with a comb (if so, which kind)? I'm trying my best to lay off my brushing habits (...my favourite one is a ball-tipped vent brush), but it ain't easy.

Yes, I finger-comb and use a wide-tooth comb. I use an Afro pick on damp hair, but mostly just the Body Shop Comb (http://www.thebodyshop.co.uk/bath-body-care/haircare/detangling-comb.aspx).
Just look for something seamless and try to see it in a shop before buying to get an idea of the size and texture. And I'd rather err on the side of wider teeth than narrower.
I think lots of LHCers like Eternally in Amber (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=124892) etsy shop and Hairsense (http://hairsense.com/bone_combs.php), too.

It was easy for me to lay off brushing simply because my hair feels better right away with a wide-tooth comb. But I know there are people who truly get much better results with brushes. The brushes I used (granted, not good quality) always got sucked into my hair's spidery "tentacles", so to speak. They would often get tangled in hair or something, kind of like velcro or those styling round bristle brushes. But my hair is dense and dryish, which could be a contributing factor there.
Choosing detangling tools is pretty individual and should probably be customized to your own hair. Choose the one that gets you the least snapping, friction, tangling and other problems.

ARG
December 2nd, 2014, 06:20 PM
Meteor (or anyone else knowledgeable in this), does a handle-less comb affect the combing at all? The comb I use has a handle and I really like it, but I notice a lot of LHCer's tend to go with the Body Shop comb, which has no handle. I know Madora emphasizes on comb grip, but I can't really say I see a difference except in lack of control, which is why I prefer to finger comb.

meteor
December 2nd, 2014, 06:57 PM
Meteor (or anyone else knowledgeable in this), does a handle-less comb affect the combing at all? The comb I use has a handle and I really like it, but I notice a lot of LHCer's tend to go with the Body Shop comb, which has no handle. I know Madora emphasizes on comb grip, but I can't really say I see a difference except in lack of control, which is why I prefer to finger comb.

ARG, just like you, I didn't see a major difference between having a handle or not. If you are gentle and stop immediately when you feel resistance / a tug on some tangle, you'll be safe. I prefer having no handle simply because it makes the comb portable.
I think it can make a difference if the comb or brush is too small or too large for your hand, which is also why I recommend buying in a local store or at least paying good attention to measurements given online.

ARG
December 2nd, 2014, 08:10 PM
ARG, just like you, I didn't see a major difference between having a handle or not. If you are gentle and stop immediately when you feel resistance / a tug on some tangle, you'll be safe. I prefer having no handle simply because it makes the comb portable.
I think it can make a difference if the comb or brush is too small or too large for your hand, which is also why I recommend buying in a local store or at least paying good attention to measurements given online.

Thank you! I find finger combing much more gentle than combing to detangle. Less manipulation and a greater handle on how bad the tangle is.

Madora
December 2nd, 2014, 10:06 PM
ARG, just like you, I didn't see a major difference between having a handle or not. If you are gentle and stop immediately when you feel resistance / a tug on some tangle, you'll be safe. I prefer having no handle simply because it makes the comb portable.
I think it can make a difference if the comb or brush is too small or too large for your hand, which is also why I recommend buying in a local store or at least paying good attention to measurements given online.

Excellent post, meteor! Yes! Gentleness and patience are everything when it comes to combing...whether your hair is straight as a stick or you have very curly hair.

As for the comb issue: I've used several and liked them all. Currently, I'm using a very small (no handle) "Maria" faux tortoiseshell comb with very large spaces between the tines. I've also used a relatively unwieldly shower comb from Sally's Beauty Supply that works fine. The other comb I love is my new Speert handmade comb (faux tortoisehell) from Switzerland. I've had 3 Speert combs over the decades and they are fabulous. All hand made, slightly bendy. Quality combs with a "Q". Most of my combs have had handles, but I find that I'm really enjoying the small "Maria" comb a lot!

EbonyCurls
November 23rd, 2015, 06:42 PM
I'd like to weigh in on the brush vs no brush, wet vs dry...based on my personal experience as a 3b waist length curly (TB straight...which is never).

I have been brushing my curly hair for the last year and it is the best thing I could have ever done, and I'm down right PISSED that I never did it consistently (or correctly) during my nearly 10 year hair journey.

WHY I DO IT: To detangle and style.
Updos + curly hair (for me) = HUGE knots when taken down. The cause of this is twisting and braiding already curly hair, invites knots squared. Also, I tend to do my updos on the 3rd and 4th day and when curly hair drops strands it doesn't fall off the head like with straight hair. It sits, and it waits. And it collects and winds around the hair still attached. Brushing has allowed me to gently remove these fallen strands, and smooths my texture, making my updos not only look neater and hold tighter, but it also minimizes the knotting while it's in an updo.

WHAT I USE: A boar bristle brush. Simply because it's what I have and I haven't had any problems

WET or DRY?: Dry ALWAYS dry....NEVER EVER evereverever wet. My hair is very elastic when wet and even just the slightest pull creates a permanently kinked half curly half straight funky hair when dry.

METHOD: Before I brush, I wet the bottom 6 inches of hair and sometimes will use small amount of oil or conditioner, and will wear it in a bun overnight (if brushing in morning), or during the day (if brushing at night). This softens and moisturizes the ends of my hair. When it's time brush, I only brush 2-3 inch sections at a time, brushing from the ends up very gently. In the beginning I was worried about breakage and so I would brush over a white paper towel. ZERO and I mean ZERO broken pieces. Just a few long strands on the paper towel and the brush caught most of the dead hairs. I was sold after that. I find that it is faster, gentler, and better for collecting dead hairs while prepping my hair for updo or wash. I still use my pearson rake comb on my wet hair in the shower and when applying product after, but the rake and even my fingers never came close to what brushing has done for my hair. Taking down updos is a breeze now and detangling is actually enjoyable.