Wavies - detangling wet or dry? Also - thin ends.

[Sarahlabyrinth]

I usually detangle every morning on dry hair with my Madora comb. However, no matter how carefully or slowly I go, I invariably hear at least 10 hairs snap off. So this morning I decided to spritz my hair with water and detangle. I heard no hairs snap and detangling was so much easier. So how do YOU guys do it? Damp or dry, or only in the shower covered in conditioner? This is obviously affecting my ends!!!

My ends are so thin(can barely be seen in the photo but they do reach the bottom blue stripe if you look carefully) as to be pretty much not there, not just an inch or two of thinness but at least 5 or 6 inches up from the hemline.... I need a method of detangling which doesn't involve breaking hairs.

So, with my truly deplorable ends, would you start micro trimming to thicken them up or just do a big chop? Or baby it along until Classic and then begin microtrimming to thicken it up, as was my original plan?

Last year my thickness ended at APL, however it has now moved down as far as just about at BSL so at least that's a good thing.... It seems to be breaking where the old brown dye begins, there is obviously a weaker zone there.

Here's a tell - all photo which explains what I am talking about. Help, advice/opinions please?

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF6310.jpg

[Beckstar]

I'm not a wavy but I am a curly and wet hair, with conditioner or a detangling spray. Dry hairs are hard to separate and more prone to breakage with combing. Damp or wet hair with a leave-in or oil will let a comb glide through much easier without the friction of dry hair.

If it were my hair I would probably cut to BSL or a few inches below so from the ends to thicken it up.... do the ends get tangled and break easily? I think your hair looks really good so far.

[memeow]

I detangle dry hair, slowly, but I also use both mineral oil and a coney cream on my hair when it's wet and finger detangle. I think the cones really help with detangling breakage but I know not everyone likes to use them.

[lapushka]

If water helps you, then use it. :flower:

My hair is only combed/brushed once a week, on wash day, before a wash. After a wash it's combed only once, after it comes out of the turbie and before styling products are applied. For the rest of the week it's pretty much left alone - it works. The waves loosen up as the week goes on, and the tangles obviously do too. So I'm not complaining.

[allierat]

My hair is wavy and I detangle it wet and dry. I detangle wet when I wash then leave it alone for a day or sometimes two. After that I detangle dry as my hair gets too tangled to wait for the next wash. The only time I had breakage was when my hair was very dry and I was detangling roughly with a brush, now I condition well, use oils as a leave in and detangle very gently with a good comb and I don't seem to have any issues (but then my hair is currently not as long as yours). Personally I would do a big chop now.

[sourgrl]

I comb the length wet after working my leave in through it but before I seal with oil. Other wise I can't get through the knots. Dry hair is finger combed only, except the roots. I comb the roots only to prevent scalp cleavage :)

[Robot Ninja]

I can't comb my wet hair, it just tangles back up as I'm combing. I detangle with a shower comb while it's damp, after applying a bit of coconut oil, and also oiling my comb. I also detangle in the morning and before bed, just a quick pass with the comb if I've been wearing my hair up as it tends not to tangle much, but if it's down I have to actually detangle before bed and finger-comb throughout the day. I never comb in the shower, since I will just have to comb again after I take off the turban.

If that were my hair I'd probably chop all or most of the damaged hair. You have a very clear demarcation line between nice, thick hair and thin ends.

[Sarahlabyrinth]

I can't comb my wet hair, it just tangles back up as I'm combing. I detangle with a shower comb while it's damp, after applying a bit of coconut oil, and also oiling my comb. I also detangle in the morning and before bed, just a quick pass with the comb if I've been wearing my hair up as it tends not to tangle much, but if it's down I have to actually detangle before bed and finger-comb throughout the day. I never comb in the shower, since I will just have to comb again after I take off the turban.

If that were my hair I'd probably chop all or most of the damaged hair. You have a very clear demarcation line between nice, thick hair and thin ends.

I know that I SHOULD just do a big chop back to BSL, but the thought of doing that after 2.5 years of TLC and careful attention is almost too much to bear...:(:( It just feels like my hair is betraying all the care and attention I put into it. (sob) I love the feeling of it at TBL in the shower soooo much.
It would mean I lose a whole year's growth. Plus, how would I know the same thing wouldn't happen again?

The only thing different I have been doing this past few months is using a BBB, and inverted brushing. I wouldn't have thought that could cause damage. And detangling when dry. Really, by now, it SHOULD be nice and thick right to the ends..... What am I doing wrong?

[Ceridwen Iris]

If it were me, I'd cut back to BSL as well but that is because length is secondary to me over having hair that is manageable and that I like the look of. If a fairy came along and said it would give me knee lengths wisps, I simply wouldn't take it and I happily hack inches off my hair when I feel it gets too thin.

But it is clear that this is not at all how you feel and that your length is very important to you. The only thing I can suggest is that you try to embrace what your hair is, rather than what you want it to be. I had decades of frustration with my hair, wishing it was fine and/or curly and once I understood it and realised it wasn't going to be otherwise, I could be a lot happier. You might find that, below mud back is always going to be very wispy on you. That might just be your hair and it isn't a reflection on your work and care at all.

[fiðrildi]

I know that I SHOULD just do a big chop back to BSL, but the thought of doing that after 2.5 years of TLC and careful attention is almost too much to bear...:(:( It just feels like my hair is betraying all the care and attention I put into it. (sob) I love the feeling of it at TBL in the shower soooo much.
It would mean I lose a whole year's growth. Plus, how would I know the same thing wouldn't happen again?

The only thing different I have been doing this past few months is using a BBB, and inverted brushing. I wouldn't have thought that could cause damage. And detangling when dry. Really, by now, it SHOULD be nice and thick right to the ends..... What am I doing wrong?

Maybe you could chop to waist length? That way your hair would still feel long, and you would get rid of most of the damage. I would definitely go for the chop, and then maintain with micro trims. You'll gain back your length slowly, but your hair will be much healthier, which IMO is way more important than length :flower:

I'm a wavy, and I try to brush once a week: just before washing my hair, with a TT, and while it's heavily coconut-oiled. In the shower, while my hair is coated with conditioner, I detangle again with a wide-toothed wooden comb.
I have noticed that BBB causes a lot of damage in my fragile ends, so I'm using it very ocassionally. If I need to detangle my hair during the week, I fingercomb.
My fingers are definitely the best comb I've ever tried :wink:

[DreamSheep]

If I brush my hair, I always do so when dry (with my TT) - as my hair definitely dislikes being detangled wet (although it did like this a lot when it was much shorter), though I do ensure my hair has no tangles in the shower with my fingers.

However, like lapushka, I tend to hold off brushing unless I'm really stressed. I like to try and preserve my wave pattern (because an exciting discovery of longer hair is that I have lil' waves!), and I know brushing and handling contributes to my split ends.
However, if I'm feeling stressed and fidgety, I will fiddle with my hair and brush it regardless.

I say Sarah, whatever works best for your hair:) I do know many people find wet hair easier to manage and style, so the water spritzing may be your perfect solution!

[rowie]

Awww hugs! I'm a little past hip now, sorry my siggie is not updated yet. I also practice the hardcore GM method. I can see it's working since your hair is less wavy now with that pic you just showed. On a daily average it takes me over an hour just to detangle my hair. If my hair is feeling dry, I simply use four drops of mineral oil. I treat my hair like fine lace which is why it takes me over an hour. Here is my routine

1) gently finger comb, making sure to treat the hair like expensive lace
2) detangle with a wide tooth wooden comb
3) gently run a rat tail comb or a very fine comb to test if I've thoroughly detangle my hair, if I fail this than I revert back to step one and so on.

I also don't comb like how generally people comb. I comb the opposite direction of the comb so that it doesn't snag my hair as bad as if I were to hold the comb at the conventional position. Pretty much I hold the comb upside down and comb down the length as gently as possible. Maybe I'll add a step by step combing technique with pics at the back to basics thread as a pre updo preparation thing. Still, I think for me I have to do it this way because my hair is so coarse like horse texture that I'd be prone to more damage cause I sometimes don't trust my hands on a day when I'm on a rush. :lol:

[patchoulilove]

Perhaps do nothing and keep your hair up until you get to a length where you are comfortable trimming up to TBL. How's your daily nutrition? Change in products or old-standbys formula? You don't have to answer these here, just some probing questions for your own reflection.

I share your length supersedes breakage/thinness approach and I'm currently swearing by jojoba oil to my wavies in between washes with special attention to my frazzled ends; more frequent s&d; and braids or low nape bun.

Instead of stressing to much, I'm focusing on the things I can actively do to help with my nutrition and eating more fats to help hydrate and nourish from the inside.

Keep growing. Slowly your thickness will catch up. If you are concerned about other areas impacting the breakage (like health issues) and/or interested in Microtrim how-to, get in touch with Emichee.

For what it's worth, I detangle wet with kinky curly knot today for the greatest ease. Also increasing s&d has helped to halt some of the tangles and dreaded snap that comes with them.

:blossom:
patchoulilove

[patchoulilove]

The only thing different I have been doing this past few months is using a BBB, and inverted brushing. I wouldn't have thought that could cause damage. And detangling when dry. Really, by now, it SHOULD be nice and thick right to the ends..... What am I doing wrong?

Perhaps try thoroughly saturating your ends with an oil of your choice before you BBB. That way as you work the natural sebum down from your roots to nourish as much of your canopy as you can, your fragile ends will have extra protection. To avoid excess oil from the ends reaching your roots, you can swipe the BBB over a clean dry wash cloth before returning to your roots.

Just some ideas. Be sure to gently comb well before BBB. Also I have a tendency to "guide" the BBB with my free hand supporting the underside of the canopy mirroring where the brush is on the hair. Hard to explain in writing, but it's just an additional step to help the BBB smooth across the hair in a controlled way to help me avoid brushing too fast/ breakage.

:blossom:
patchoulilove

[Sarahlabyrinth]

My nutrition, water intake and exercise levels are excellent. I can only think that changing dye colour on my hair somehow caused a weak area in the hair shaft, as it looks as if that is where the hairs are breaking off/combined with a shed early last year combining to cause great ickness..... My length is useful for updos however and I would miss it I'm sure if I did a big chop. My SO says "Why worry about your ends, as you wear your hair up all the time and no-one can see them anyway?" But we all know it's not that simple.... Also I can't imagine having it any shorter than tailbone length as a minimum...

I do comb really gently and BBB with my free hand supporting the under canopy too. Where's the hair magic fairy when you need her?

Any more ideas, anyone?

[rowie]

Well I'm glad detangling hair wet works well for a lot of people in here. For some reason, I'm so paranoid about detangling or combing my hair wet because I was told by so many people that hair is at its weakest when it's wet. That is why I wait for my hair to dry almost 90% before I even attempt to detangle my hair. I also wash my hair once a month because I personally find I loose a lot of hair more than if I just collect my daily hair shed. Saralabyrinth i also make sure my hair is thoroughly detangled before I even use the bbb. I test my hair for any tangles with my rat tail fine tooth comb after I had thoroughly detangleed my hair and then that is when I proceed with my bbb. Mineral oil really helps and a little goes a long way for me. What I am thinking about doing is putting some silk drops only in my ends so that I don't have to run my bbb all the way, but it's only a thought I'm still thinking about doing.

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Rowie, this is also why I have hesitated to detangle damp hair (except once a week after washing, which I have always done.) Though it is when I detangle dry that I find snags. I do always detangle thoroughly before BBBing though and I do use mineral oil (a couple of drops) on my hair, also a smidgen of coconut oil on my ends.

I am wondering whether I should give up detangling every day, except for the root area so that it looks good in an updo and just reduce the daily handling on the length.

I have also just had a health check at the doctors' and all hormone levels are normal. Everything else checkable is normal also. I am not taking any medication. I am having a decent amount of protein and some fats every day.

[Sparklylady82]

If what you are currently doing is causing breakage.try something new. It seems that dangling while wet is a better option since you don't hear the snapping that way. I would do a big trim (as much as you can handle) and then microtrim monthly. I read a story on here where one of the member's microtrimmed theit hair after some health issues and it helped so much. Maybe someone who know s what I'm talking about can share the thread or link. Anyway, your hair is gorgeous!

[Crystawni]

I usually detangle every morning on dry hair with my Madora comb. However, no matter how carefully or slowly I go, I invariably hear at least 10 hairs snap off. So this morning I decided to spritz my hair with water and detangle. I heard no hairs snap and detangling was so much easier. So how do YOU guys do it? Damp or dry, or only in the shower covered in conditioner? This is obviously affecting my ends!!!

My ends are so thin(can barely be seen in the photo but they do reach the bottom blue stripe if you look carefully) as to be pretty much not there, not just an inch or two of thinness but at least 5 or 6 inches up from the hemline.... I need a method of detangling which doesn't involve breaking hairs.

So, with my truly deplorable ends, would you start micro trimming to thicken them up or just do a big chop? Or baby it along until Classic and then begin microtrimming to thicken it up, as was my original plan?

Last year my thickness ended at APL, however it has now moved down as far as just about at BSL so at least that's a good thing.... It seems to be breaking where the old brown dye begins, there is obviously a weaker zone there.

Here's a tell - all photo which explains what I am talking about. Help, advice/opinions please?

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF6310.jpg

Oh, ((hugs))! I would imagine it could be from dye damage, as you said. As for your hemline now, I find my wispy hair left out of my bun around my face tangles more, and is prone to knots. Does that seem to happen with your ends? If so, maybe there's safety in numbers (a thicker hemline). Kind of like one stick easier to snap than a bunch.

It's hit or miss whether I detangle my hair after a shower. My hair gets gently dried with a towel, then left in a turbie for a while. When it's let loose, I leave it alone unless I'm in a rush to dry it. That's when I'll use my old detangling comb like this one, but black (http://www.chempro.com.au/epages/shop.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/shop/Products/9310460021455) to separate the clumps so airdrying is quicker. Actually, I use this when it's dry, too. It has a wavy profile near the handle, which lines up at the tips. And if I want to bring my hair together a bit, this simple, light bamboo brush (http://www2.woolworthsonline.com.au/Shop/ProductDetails?Stockcode=261871&name=woolworths-select-hair-brush-pad-bamboo) is my fave. I use coconut oil on my length and ends pre-wash, and Argan oil post wash on dry hair. Each morning I use my comb or brush on dry hair to neaten it up (I wear my hair in a braid at night, so don't have many tangles to deal with), with neither causing any snaps or drag. I only use my TT-knockoff or BBB when looking to sleek back my hair for an updo, or as a final brush-over after detangling. And I use my old afro comb (hair pick) from the 80s when I want to retain the curls with less frizz.

[Sarahlabyrinth]

If I dampen it and let it dry without touching it, it looks like this:

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF6312.jpg


I just wonder whether daily BBBing is too much for my fine, fragile hair.

[KittyBird]

I would either micro-trim or just keep it up until I reach my goal. I definitely wouldn't do a big chop :)

As for detangling, I have the same problem. I always snap some hairs when I detangle dry. Damp isn't much better, but I get no snapping when I detangle wet in the shower. I use lots of conditioner and comb under running water. I try to limit dry combing nowadays, simply because it's so difficult to avoid breakage. My ends are pretty damaged too, so that doesn't make detangling any easier.

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Thank you Kittybird - I may try this myself. Certainly micro-trimming couldn't hurt and at least I would maintain length too. No one can see my ends in updos and the thickness is slowly but surely moving down my length. BSL would just feel so short to me now.

[Federica]

I usually don't use combs at all.
I finger detangle very carefully only when my hair is totally dry, dividing my hair in small sections, and when all the tangles are gone I brush with a BBB and braid it.
I don't get many tangles having it braided all day, and I find that using a paranda is much more protective to the ends.
We have a very similar wave pattern and I personally don't like fairytales so much on myself, more because FTE require a lot of effort to maintain them healthy and I always end up with breakage and small pieces of hair in the sink.
If I had your hair, for my personal preference, I would cut back to hip and then micro trim monthly half of my growth, which is what I'm actually doing to get rid of layers and avoid FTE.
But I think your hair is lovely the way it is, and I would cut it just because I find a blunt hem much more manageable.

[zift]

I detangle both wet and dry but I don't hear any snapping probably due to the coarse hair texture. What I experience with dry tangling is the comb getting stuck and not moving so I have to take it out of my hair and start again. I saw that the split ends generally appear where the comb gets stuck so I try not to detangle with dry hair I just slightly arrange the waves with my fingers. I recommend a thorough S&D session before doing something drastic like chopping so much of your beautiful hair. If you still keep having problems maybe do a microtrim.

[lapushka]

The only thing different I have been doing this past few months is using a BBB, and inverted brushing. I wouldn't have thought that could cause damage. And detangling when dry. Really, by now, it SHOULD be nice and thick right to the ends..... What am I doing wrong?

For a wavy? I'd stop using a BBB. That's fine if you're a 1, but for other textures... not so much.

I'd not start microtrimming before reaching the TBL by Christmas - challenge. ;)

[Wosie]

I'm 2a-ish and I actually promised myself last night not to use a BBB anymore (unless I want to smooth down an updo). I know it works swell for some people, but not for me. It creates bad frizz and scratches my sensitive scalp. I certainly don't need more frizz, I'm already the queen of frizz. :o Some people just don't do well with BBBs, I'd advise for you to not use it for a while and see it the situation improves. :blossom: Also, micro-trimming is king. :)

[veryhairyfairy]

If I dampen it and let it dry without touching it, it looks like this:

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF6312.jpg


I just wonder whether daily BBBing is too much for my fine, fragile hair.
Most likely, yes. :agree:

I got a LOT of breakage when I tried to use a BBB for a few months. I often wonder if my own ends would be as thin now if I hadn't experimented with it.
My theory is that when some of us have damaged hair, the extra friction and pulling and manipulation of BBB brushing is too much and just pulls those hair off at the weakest point.

As for detangling wet vs dry:
I snap hairs when I detangle dry, too, and I've never had a problem with detangling wet. When combing my hair I always have a spray bottle of water for styling and detangling purposes.

And PS, don't feel too bad about your ends, I'm in the same boat and I'm just going to maintain at TBL for a year. It's very useful for bunning, and I love the way it feels on my skin! :)

[Catatafish]

I also think you should stop using your BBB. Each time you manipulate your hair there is a chance you might damage it, and maybe the BBB just isn't suited to your hair type. I know some people on this forum love it, and I can't really comment because I've never tried it, but I've never understood how brushing your hair more can be good for it.

[Knifegill]

I have somewhat medium-to-coarse hair and I dry brush gently with a wooden, wide-toothed bamboo brush once every few days before I wash. No sounds of tearing, just a few catchy spots that I gently work through. My hair isn't prone to tangling at this point, though, it's still pretty short.

Like Rowie, I tilt the teeth upward so that any catching resolves in the hair sliding off the teeth instead of something having to break. Once I know there are no tangles, I hit my scalp and run the length with teeth aimed downward.


You hair looks really good above those wispy ends, though. I don't think you're doing anything wrong, the line of damage seems evidence of some singular catastrophe, like the brown dyeing you spoke of. Much like a ridge in a snail's shell, the record of some event shows on your hair.

f it was my hair - and it's not - but if it were, I would try to take off all the damaged/different-looking ends.

[OrganicJewel]

As a wavy, I could not use the BBB. It damaged my hair. It made my waves poofy and frizzy and dry. If you sense it is the BBB that’s damaging your hair, I’d stop using it.

I never detangle dry. If I did my hair would break. I detangle in the shower with loads of conditioner, that way the comb slips through and the tangles are nice and loose. If I waited until my hair was nearly dry to detangle, I would have a rat’s nest to comb out and would surely damage my hair, no matter how gentle I was.

I think it depends on what your hair is like. If it sounds like mine, try detangling in the shower with conditioner. If it doesn’t tangle much, then you can keep detangling dry, but why when you say you’re hearing your hair snap?

I understand not wanting to cut off a lot, and in the second photo your ends look better, not as dry or frizzy. Why not cut off two or so inches and then micro trim once a month? It might be just what you need to keep growing towards your goal, while feeling better about your ends because that’s sure to thicken them some.

[OrganicJewel]

As a wavy, I could not use the BBB. It damaged my hair. It made my waves poofy and frizzy and dry. If you sense it is the BBB that’s damaging your hair, I’d stop using it.

I never detangle dry. If I did my hair would break. I detangle in the shower with loads of conditioner, that way the comb slips through and the tangles are nice and loose. If I waited until my hair was nearly dry to detangle, I would have a rat’s nest to comb out and would surely damage my hair, no matter how gentle I was.

I think it depends on what your hair is like. If it sounds like mine, try detangling in the shower with conditioner. If it doesn’t tangle much, then you can keep detangling dry, but why when you say you’re hearing your hair snap?

I understand not wanting to cut off a lot, and in the second photo your ends look better, not as dry or frizzy. Why not cut off two or so inches and then micro trim once a month? It might be just what you need to keep growing towards your goal, while feeling better about your ends because that’s sure to thicken them some.

[nikolette]

Rowie, this is also why I have hesitated to detangle damp hair (except once a week after washing, which I have always done.) Though it is when I detangle dry that I find snags. I do always detangle thoroughly before BBBing though and I do use mineral oil (a couple of drops) on my hair, also a smidgen of coconut oil on my ends.

I am wondering whether I should give up detangling every day, except for the root area so that it looks good in an updo and just reduce the daily handling on the length.

I have also just had a health check at the doctors' and all hormone levels are normal. Everything else checkable is normal also. I am not taking any medication. I am having a decent amount of protein and some fats every day.

Personally I was in the same place. I heard to stay away from manipulating your hair when wet but I would find attempting to detangle hair while dry would lead to massive breakage and I can't bear the sound of my hair snapping! I would look into my sink and there would be all these bits of hair ends that had broken off :(

My personal method is to detangle while in the shower with my hair soaked in conditioner (Im currently in a cone or no-cone dilemma for this part). When I want to detangle in between washes, I spritz my hair with a water bottle to dampen it and then spray a little dangler and work through it that way. Then I braid and keep in a braid until dry. It gives nice waves and doesn't as lot in controlling frizz.

[maskedrose]

I also think you should give up the BBB. Based on what you've said, I think the brown dye is most likely to blame - some of us simply have hair that cannot handle dye/bleach damage once it passes waist. I did a large chop from hip to BSL earlier this year for that reason. It sucked, and I've been missing the length...but it was only a year's worth of growth and my ends are WAY thicker and nearing waist.

[cathair]

I would ditch the comb. I stopped using a comb and I've honestly found I don't need it, I can do a good enough job with my fingers. I pretty much never hear a hair snap when I detangle with my fingers as I can feel exactly what I am doing and how much force I am using, which I can't with a comb.

I don't think your ends look deplorable at all, just natural. I am willing to bet they are pretty healthy too, just not blunt. I wouldn't do a big chop, that would be a huge loss cutting back to BSL. If you are really unhappy, microtrim until you feel better.

I am a bit frightened of detangling wet, for the same reasons as above. Hair has been shown to be weakest when wet. I would only detangle wet in the shower with hair totally saturated in conditioner, with fingers. I do that, and finger detangle once every day. Finger detangling breaks up my waves less too and takes much less time than I imagined to get all the tangles out. I would try it and see if you miss your comb. If you do you can always go back :) Good luck!

[Sarahlabyrinth]

It may be that fineys just can't use BBBs daily...if at all. Well, it's a lesson well learned. I will grow until the end of the year to reach TBL stretched, then micro trim to gain thickness. BTW, I still don't have white dots or split ends. Strange.

[Aderyn]

I haven't done very well with a BBB either and we have a similar hair type.

I don't have an issue detangling my dry hair, though I only detangle 2 or 3 times a week on hair that is at least a few days past the last wash day.

I detangle my hair in the shower, when it's full of conditioner, but I don't use a comb - just my fingers. Using a comb when my hair is wet just.. doesn't work, to say the least.

[spidermom]

I already know how you feel about your length, so grow on and enjoy. I use a coney serum after washing because it makes combing my hair so much easier. I seldom feel/hear a snap. I also use coconut oil before I wash because I think it makes my hair stronger and smoother.

I seldom use a BBB because I always got the feeling that is shredded my hair. Maybe not, but that's how it feels.

[ghost]

I mostly detangle my hair when it's wet, using my tangle teezer or a wide toothed comb. If it really needs a good brushing when it's dry, I use the tangle teezer only -nothing else. My hair is about as wavy as yours, OP :)

Also my ends are in a similar state. I don't like the idea of a big chop, so I've started wearing it braided all the time. I can still see the length, and the ends are held together that way so they don't look as flyaway and wispy. I'm doing microtrims so I can continue to slowly grow and gain thickness -a long path for sure, but much easier for me to deal with than a big chop.
I also color my hair. Roots only, and I need to stick to using a semi-permanent instead of permanent color.

[Annalouise]

Hi Sarahlabyrinth
Your hair is similar to mine and I am very curious to know why your hair thinned out because I have similar issues with my hair thinning out past mid back.
Hmmm... its a mystery to me at this point. Since I don't dye my hair, and it thins out, I am wondering if it was the hair dye for you or some other reason.
Did you experience a major hair shedding period? And if so do you know what caused the shedding?
I would hazard to guess that your hair thinning was due to a shedding event.
But it is a mystery to me. I've never made it to waist length because I have not figured out yet how to retain thickness from mid back to waist.

As for a BBB I only use it before washing my hair when my hair is oily. And then I only use the BBB after detangling the hair. But I do think that brushing with a BBB with your head upsidedown is good for the hair follicles and that is why I do it. I don't do it for another reason but for scalp purposes.
I think its true that hair comes from the scalp. And the thinning comes from the scalp also. And I believe the issues are related to the health of the scalp. There are many women with very long lengths who dye their hair.

Finally, I have noticed a lot more new growth since starting to practice brushing my hair upsidedown with a BBB. I started that about one year ago consistently. And I have about 6 inches of new growth. So I think it is due to the BBB.

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Hi Sarahlabyrinth
Your hair is similar to mine and I am very curious to know why your hair thinned out because I have similar issues with my hair thinning out past mid back.
Hmmm... its a mystery to me at this point. Since I don't dye my hair, and it thins out, I am wondering if it was the hair dye for you or some other reason.
Did you experience a major hair shedding period? And if so do you know what caused the shedding?
I would hazard to guess that your hair thinning was due to a shedding event.
But it is a mystery to me. I've never made it to waist length because I have not figured out yet how to retain thickness from mid back to waist.

As for a BBB I only use it before washing my hair when my hair is oily. And then I only use the BBB after detangling the hair. But I do think that brushing with a BBB with your head upsidedown is good for the hair follicles and that is why I do it. I don't do it for another reason but for scalp purposes.
I think its true that hair comes from the scalp. And the thinning comes from the scalp also. And I believe the issues are related to the health of the scalp. There are many women with very long lengths who dye their hair.

Finally, I have noticed a lot more new growth since starting to practice brushing my hair upsidedown with a BBB. I started that about one year ago consistently. And I have about 6 inches of new growth. So I think it is due to the BBB.


Annalouise, I did have a major shed in March of last year due to leaving my husband in January, moving across the country, finding new work and accommodation, etc. It was all very stressful with solicitors etc, plus someone running into my car and needing major repairs to that as well. I lost almost an inch in circumference in March (the shedding began 3 months after the separation/move). That certainly did affect the thickness of my ends, and majorly so. However, it seems that in the last couple of months (since I began daily inverted BBB brushing) the ends have lost more thickness.

The hair at the nape and down a little further has regained its usual thickness and for that I am very grateful. That thickness is moving downwards, too. I am sure that with time and micro-trimming I will regain thickness on my ends and am confident also that I will be able to grow to longer lengths. It is just a matter of finding out what works for me and doesn't damage my hair. It is a shame that inverted BBB brushing could be causing damage, because it feels so wonderful on my scalp.

I know that dye does cause damage to hair and it may be that as a finey, my fine strands cannot cope with the damage/length combination.(though I do dye roots only) Only further time will tell.

There are those who think my hair looks fine as it is, however on myself I do much prefer blunt, thick ends rather than fairytale ends.

[Annalouise]

Annalouise, I did have a major shed in March of last year due to leaving my husband in January, moving across the country, finding new work and accommodation, etc. It was all very stressful with solicitors etc, plus someone running into my car and needing major repairs to that as well. I lost almost an inch in circumference in March (the shedding began 3 months after the separation/move). That certainly did affect the thickness of my ends, and majorly so. However, it seems that in the last couple of months (since I began daily inverted BBB brushing) the ends have lost more thickness.

The hair at the nape and down a little further has regained its usual thickness and for that I am very grateful. That thickness is moving downwards, too. I am sure that with time and micro-trimming I will regain thickness on my ends and am confident also that I will be able to grow to longer lengths. It is just a matter of finding out what works for me and doesn't damage my hair. It is a shame that inverted BBB brushing could be causing damage, because it feels so wonderful on my scalp.

I know that dye does cause damage to hair and it may be that as a finey, my fine strands cannot cope with the damage/length combination.(though I do dye roots only) Only further time will tell.

There are those who think my hair looks fine as it is, however on myself I do much prefer blunt, thick ends rather than fairytale ends.

This is what I think, gathering your information: You had a major shed in March and lost thickness, then you say a couple months ago you started using a bbb and noticed the ends getting even thinner so this is my hypothesis: When you had the major shed your ends got thin. Now, the reason why your thin ends are getting thinner after starting with the bbb is because when you have few hairs at the longest length, and you shed, it will be more noticeable on the ends where the hair was thin already. So I think you are noticing the shedding at the ends, whereas you cannot tell the difference with your thicker hair.
I say this because you admitted that you are getting thickness at the nape of the neck while doing upside down brushing with a bbb. So that means it is stimulating new growth. And even though you might lose a few more hairs doing the brushing, you are only noticing that on your thin ends.

Do you know how many hairs you lose per day without brushing, and how many hairs you loose a day with brushing?

I'm sorry to hear about your stressful event.

[Catatafish]

If you miss the feeling on your scalp you could use a tangle teaser instead. I sometimes comb my hair, then flip my hair over, or lie on the bed with my hair hanging off of it, and use the tangle teaser to give myself a scalp massage of sorts. Since the hair is already detangled, and I'm only using the TT on my scalp and the hair quite close to it, I don't think it causes much damage. The hair near you scalp is newer and should be less prone to breakage than your ends anyways. So no need to miss out on the nice scalp feelings. I find it quite relaxing myself.

Or you could use one of those special scalp massagers, or a snag free wooden brush. I used a wooden brush for a while as well. The TT feels better though. Don't use a knock-off though, they are not as gentle apparently.

[Crystawni]

Yup, like Catatafish, I use my TT, or my bamboo brush which has thicker, wider-spaced bristles than any other brush I've ever used. Both are nice and light, so no extra pressure on the hair shafts, either. And I tend not to drag the brush through to the lengths and ends. Those scalp brushings feel soooo nice! My BBB makes my hair flat with a poof at the end, and really doesn't get through my hair as well, or as quickly (less manipulation) as the bamboo brush does.

[Sarahlabyrinth]

This is what I think, gathering your information: You had a major shed in March and lost thickness, then you say a couple months ago you started using a bbb and noticed the ends getting even thinner so this is my hypothesis: When you had the major shed your ends got thin. Now, the reason why your thin ends are getting thinner after starting with the bbb is because when you have few hairs at the longest length, and you shed, it will be more noticeable on the ends where the hair was thin already. So I think you are noticing the shedding at the ends, whereas you cannot tell the difference with your thicker hair.
I say this because you admitted that you are getting thickness at the nape of the neck while doing upside down brushing with a bbb. So that means it is stimulating new growth. And even though you might lose a few more hairs doing the brushing, you are only noticing that on your thin ends.

Do you know how many hairs you lose per day without brushing, and how many hairs you loose a day with brushing?

I'm sorry to hear about your stressful event.

That's an interesting point, Annelouise. By the way, my life has turned from a nightmare into amazingly wonderful, so it has reversed itself in a most amazing way :).

I have not measured how much hair I lose either with or without brushing but it is not an amount out of the ordinary for me, not anything that would make me sit up and notice, that's for sure.

I guess I could continue the inverted brushing but not go all the way to the ends of my hair.

Or - I could just do an inverted scalp massage daily.
Or - I could use my lovely bamboo brush (feels so wonderful on my scalp) and just use that to massage with, not to brush with.

Good ideas, Catatafish and Crystawni.

I don't really see how you could just fingercomb hair and get all the tangles out that way, or would you just not worry about trying to get a comb through until next wash day, and put up with tangly ends in the meantime. Also, for those who fingercomb, do you still use a comb or brush on the scalp hair to make presentable updos and prevent hair cleavage?

[Madora]

I usually detangle every morning on dry hair with my Madora comb. However, no matter how carefully or slowly I go, I invariably hear at least 10 hairs snap off. So this morning I decided to spritz my hair with water and detangle. I heard no hairs snap and detangling was so much easier. So how do YOU guys do it? Damp or dry, or only in the shower covered in conditioner? This is obviously affecting my ends!!!

My ends are so thin(can barely be seen in the photo but they do reach the bottom blue stripe if you look carefully) as to be pretty much not there, not just an inch or two of thinness but at least 5 or 6 inches up from the hemline.... I need a method of detangling which doesn't involve breaking hairs.

So, with my truly deplorable ends, would you start micro trimming to thicken them up or just do a big chop? Or baby it along until Classic and then begin microtrimming to thicken it up, as was my original plan?

Last year my thickness ended at APL, however it has now moved down as far as just about at BSL so at least that's a good thing.... It seems to be breaking where the old brown dye begins, there is obviously a weaker zone there.

Here's a tell - all photo which explains what I am talking about. Help, advice/opinions please?

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF6310.jpg

You can baby those ends if you like but frankly, once you have the GM treatment..and trim, those whispies will be a thing of the past.

Personally, I'd just cut off 2 inches now and then baby the rest and see how you do.

As far as detangling, yes, always when damp...but after I have added the 4 or 5 drops of mineral oil. Also, HOW you detangle can make a huge difference in how many strands you loose.

So, what I do is try and center part my hair while it is wet, remove as much of the moisture as I can, add the MO drops, then I part my hair and clip one section away for the time being.

Then I work on the other section in this way:

Begin at the very front of the face..just above the eyebrow..carve a very THIN section of hair from the center part down to the neck. By "Thin" I mean pencil thin. Start detangling from the ends, combing gently up the strands in small increments until you reach the roots.

Carve out another thin section of hair from the center part down to neck, and repeat.
Repeat for all the rest of the hair, taking special pains once you reach back of the ear (lots of snarls tend to lurk there)
Once all hair has been detangled, braid loosely and hold w/clip

Repeat on the other side.

Everything detangled? Then if weather ok, go outdoors and "fan the strands" (or do it indoors, near a portable heater).

Gentle detangling relies on detangling in SMALL sections on damp hair (at least for me it does)!

[Madora]

If you want to go easy on the brushing, then ease off...but not completely! Brush 20 strokes every day in the upside down position, but ONLY after you have completely and thoroughly detangled your hair with a wide tooth comb. Since you have very fine hair, you might want to double check the tangles with a fine tooth comb as well (AFTER you've used a wide tooth comb first).

And by all that is holy...be sure to detangle EVERY BLOOMIN' DAY! And use a COMB because the comb's tines can go through the densest part of your hair easily and you do not miss anything.

I have no idea of how you have been brushing...how much you have been brushing (how many strokes), how you are holding the brush when you brush, etc.

You must remember to GO SLOWLY when brushing.

Perhaps you are doing these things all ready. But really, brushing is only as good as the detangling that precedes it! And the detangling of very fine hair is going to take extra patience if you really want to do a proper job!

I'd really just get rid of all those long shaggy ones and concentrate on having a healthy, thick blunt hairline. Good luck!

[Sarahlabyrinth]

I took a couple more photos tonight and think my hair does look better in these ones. I will still start a trimming schedule next year, though - I got such a fright those other couple of photos!

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF6323.jpg

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF6325.jpg

[veryhairyfairy]

Oh yeah, that's not bad at all!
Mine look about the same, and they're quite presentable when styled right.

Sounds like you've figured out a plan of action, and we can hang out and compare ends in the microtrimming thread next year! :)

[Annalouise]

Sarahlabyrinth- you've got good length and thickness down to your waist. I think that you could trim and have an even hemline and it wouldn't even seem like you lost much length. Lucky for you you have iii hair so a thick hemline is no problem for you. I think you should follow Madora's instructions on brushing because I did and it has helped me. My hair is in better condition now than in was before I used to brush. Before brushing my hair was drier.

Madora-thanks for your instructions. You are the one that taught me how to brush with a bbb and I have kept up with it but I have gotten lazy. So thanks for the reminder to brush daily and take the time to detangle daily.

[Annalouise]

You can baby those ends if you like but frankly, once you have the GM treatment..and trim, those whispies will be a thing of the past.

Personally, I'd just cut off 2 inches now and then baby the rest and see how you do.

As far as detangling, yes, always when damp...but after I have added the 4 or 5 drops of mineral oil. Also, HOW you detangle can make a huge difference in how many strands you loose.

So, what I do is try and center part my hair while it is wet, remove as much of the moisture as I can, add the MO drops, then I part my hair and clip one section away for the time being.

Then I work on the other section in this way:

Begin at the very front of the face..just above the eyebrow..carve a very THIN section of hair from the center part down to the neck. By "Thin" I mean pencil thin. Start detangling from the ends, combing gently up the strands in small increments until you reach the roots.

Carve out another thin section of hair from the center part down to neck, and repeat.
Repeat for all the rest of the hair, taking special pains once you reach back of the ear (lots of snarls tend to lurk there)
Once all hair has been detangled, braid loosely and hold w/clip

Repeat on the other side.

Everything detangled? Then if weather ok, go outdoors and "fan the strands" (or do it indoors, near a portable heater).

Gentle detangling relies on detangling in SMALL sections on damp hair (at least for me it does)!

These are great instructions! Wow, I have been detangling in the WRONG Way...hahaha. Thanks again Madora!!!!

[diddiedaisy]

I'm a fine wavy with thin shed ends and I only comb wet/damp hair after I've applied either a serum or oil. I use a wide toothed comb and will glide through with ease. If I don't put anything on it I encounter knots that have the stubbornness of a mule. I won't suggest chopping the fairies off as I won't chop mine off yet until I get to a certain length. Good luck and I hope you find something that works for you.

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Thank you indeed, Madora for your detailed instructions. I do detangle very carefully,(lightly spritzed with water seems to work best for me) and generally use my BBB for about 20 strokes for inverted brushing, gently on my scalp. I will continue with that because it does feel so delightful, however I may just brush the scalp area of hair, lightly and not take the brush down to the very ends. I figure my ends need the least manipulation possible. At least until they get into better condition/thickness.

[Madora]

Thank you indeed, Madora for your detailed instructions. I do detangle very carefully,(lightly spritzed with water seems to work best for me) and generally use my BBB for about 20 strokes for inverted brushing, gently on my scalp. I will continue with that because it does feel so delightful, however I may just brush the scalp area of hair, lightly and not take the brush down to the very ends. I figure my ends need the least manipulation possible. At least until they get into better condition/thickness.

Whatever you find helps your hair, go for it, Sarahlabyrinth. May I suggest that after you brush your 20 strokes..just the scalp area (which, frankly, I don't know how you are going to do w/o getting your brush mooshed with hair) then use a wide tooth comb to gently go down all the hair once more, to be sure there are no tangles. To be on the safe side, I'd follow that with a gentle once over with a fine tooth comb so you are SURE you have gotten ALL the snarls out. It must take the patience of a saint to deal with such delicate hair!

[Madora]

These are great instructions! Wow, I have been detangling in the WRONG Way...hahaha. Thanks again Madora!!!!

My pleasure, Annalouise! I know some LHCers might say "Good grief, why so picky? Why so tedious, this detangling business...but truly, if you want beautiful hair, you have GOT to take the pains...get up early...reserve the time...SOMETHING..so that you have enough time to do this "tedious" detangling ritual. And in time, your hair will reap what you sow! The more gentle you are, the more your hair will prosper, the less damage you will see (assuming you are doing everything else correctly - staying away from unfriendly hair practices...yada yada!

I'm so glad to read you are having good success with your brushing, Annalouise! Makes me happy!

[Madora]

I took a couple more photos tonight and think my hair does look better in these ones. I will still start a trimming schedule next year, though - I got such a fright those other couple of photos!

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF6323.jpg

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF6325.jpg

Oh, what lovely, lovely photos, Sarahlabyrinth! The potential for your hair to look like a million dollars is so THERE! Your glorious color kills me every time I see it! Burnished gold, on a lighter spectrum! I love it!

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Madora, you give me such hope :) That lovely colour you see is DYE, and next year I will gradually begin ushering in the silvers, so then it will be silver and gold! :) I want all virgin at-least-classic length hair by the time I am 60! That gives me 10 years to get my hair sorted. Nothing like a long term hair plan, right? :)

[Madora]

Madora, you give me such hope :) That lovely colour you see is DYE, and next year I will gradually begin ushering in the silvers, so then it will be silver and gold! :) I want all virgin at-least-classic length hair by the time I am 60! That gives me 10 years to get my hair sorted. Nothing like a long term hair plan, right? :)

Oh, I'm sure you will reach your all virgin at least classic length hair goal by the time you are sixty!! Silver threads among the gold..sounds gorgeous!

[Elizabeth E]

My hair is 2A wavy and I've tried different methods. When I wait for the hair to dry before detangling, I don't get as much shedding, but it causes my waves to go out and by day 2 it's one huge ball of frizz.
Usually after washing, I leave my hair in a towel for a while so it's not quite that damp anymore, then divide in two sections and start from the bottom with a wide-toothed comb. Not only does it curl better when it dries, but it is much smoother and the tiny hair around my temples are tamed. Those few extra hairs I lose are worth it.

[AutobotsAttack]

I’ve actually completely stopped detangling my hair out of the shower wet or dry.

I have hair so fine that it is the exact same texture of a cotton bud in a flower.

I only detangle once under the running water in the shower. Once I get out, I gently separate with my fingers, and let it air dry with my ceiling fan on the highest setting. It will fluff up again simply because that’s what it does though. But I’m able to get most the shed hairs out without breakage.

I think I commented one time explaining I was in a similar situation with hairs breaking regardless of how I detangle unless it’s under running water.

I’ve noticed, for extremely fine hair, combs, brushes, or picks sometimes cause more harm than good.

Can I ask if your hair displays any of these characteristics?:

•It naturally webs or forms a cross like pattern when separated before detangling?
•your hair is relatively light weight despite its length?

My hair is so fine to the point where it naturally webs up when damp. Not to be confused with tangles. It’s more just my hair going in whatever direction it pleases from being very fine textured. Kind of resembles the webbed fibers of cotton.

Concerning how light my hair is, picture this: even at the length my hair is now, it is still virtually weightless when sopping wet, and put up in a bun.

I only ask because sometimes there’s nothing wrong with your hair per say, that’s just it’s nature. The best way I’ve been able to retain more length since the beginning of this year is ditching brushes and combs altogether except for a detangling shower comb in the shower.

If you’re patient enough, or have time set aside to finger detangle the majority of your hair, I think your ends and longer lengths will definitely thank you for that.

My hair is just about at TBL and it’s thinning out much like yours are too from the same thing. And since January of this year, after switching to mainly finger detangling, the thin spot I have had been thickening up and it’s also been traveling down as well.

I think when you finger detangle as you air dry, your hair will slowly start to separate a lot more than mine does.

Let me know if any of this helps Sarah. I mainly just said all of this for the future times when you’re trying to mitigate any of this happening again.

If you’re comfortable with slowly trimming I’d say that’s your best bet. Since I like you hair at its length, and you take lovely photos all of the time!

[Sarahlabyrinth]

I’ve actually completely stopped detangling my hair out of the shower wet or dry.

I have hair so fine that it is the exact same texture of a cotton bud in a flower.

I only detangle once under the running water in the shower. Once I get out, I gently separate with my fingers, and let it air dry with my ceiling fan on the highest setting. It will fluff up again simply because that’s what it does though. But I’m able to get most the shed hairs out without breakage.

I think I commented one time explaining I was in a similar situation with hairs breaking regardless of how I detangle unless it’s under running water.

I’ve noticed, for extremely fine hair, combs, brushes, or picks sometimes cause more harm than good.

Can I ask if your hair displays any of these characteristics?:

•It naturally webs or forms a cross like pattern when separated before detangling?
•your hair is relatively light weight despite its length?

My hair is so fine to the point where it naturally webs up when damp. Not to be confused with tangles. It’s more just my hair going in whatever direction it pleases from being very fine textured. Kind of resembles the webbed fibers of cotton.

Concerning how light my hair is, picture this: even at the length my hair is now, it is still virtually weightless when sopping wet, and put up in a bun.

I only ask because sometimes there’s nothing wrong with your hair per say, that’s just it’s nature. The best way I’ve been able to retain more length since the beginning of this year is ditching brushes and combs altogether except for a detangling shower comb in the shower.

If you’re patient enough, or have time set aside to finger detangle the majority of your hair, I think your ends and longer lengths will definitely thank you for that.

My hair is just about at TBL and it’s thinning out much like yours are too from the same thing. And since January of this year, after switching to mainly finger detangling, the thin spot I have had been thickening up and it’s also been traveling down as well.

I think when you finger detangle as you air dry, your hair will slowly start to separate a lot more than mine does.

Let me know if any of this helps Sarah. I mainly just said all of this for the future times when you’re trying to mitigate any of this happening again.

If you’re comfortable with slowly trimming I’d say that’s your best bet. Since I like you hair at its length, and you take lovely photos all of the time!

Thanks for your detailed reply, AutobotsAttack. My hair is cobwebby, yes and does seem light for the length. These days I generally use a wide toothed comb to detangle and I also have an Elite Pro detangling brush given to me by a friend, which does a wonderful job. As always I go slowly and gently and detangling isn't a problem these days. Finger detangling also works well, but combing is quicker, I find.

I am micro trimming too, which is helping with my ends :)

[AutobotsAttack]

Thanks for your detailed reply, AutobotsAttack. My hair is cobwebby, yes and does seem light for the length. These days I generally use a wide toothed comb to detangle and I also have an Elite Pro detangling brush given to me by a friend, which does a wonderful job. As always I go slowly and gently and detangling isn't a problem these days. Finger detangling also works well, but combing is quicker, I find.

I am micro trimming too, which is helping with my ends :)

I’m glad you’ve got things that still work. Perhaps it’s a need just continuing to be cautious. Whenever I go to wash my hair I try to funnel all of my focus on my hair. You know, not being in my phone, or eating, or watching tv. Kind of hum to myself to get the focus engine flowing and all that. Sometimes I get rushy and don’t take my time.

But since your hair tends to cobweb I think that’s where the snagging and snapping tends to happen. Maybe sectioning will help too? Maybe four sections?

[queenbee1]

i vote for microtrimming.

[Sarahlabyrinth]

I’m glad you’ve got things that still work. Perhaps it’s a need just continuing to be cautious. Whenever I go to wash my hair I try to funnel all of my focus on my hair. You know, not being in my phone, or eating, or watching tv. Kind of hum to myself to get the focus engine flowing and all that. Sometimes I get rushy and don’t take my time.

But since your hair tends to cobweb I think that’s where the snagging and snapping tends to happen. Maybe sectioning will help too? Maybe four sections?

It becomes more cobwebby if I try to section it, but since detangling takes less than five minutes, I don't find it a problem any more :)

Plus I think I am gentler with it now than I used to be.

[Milady_DeWinter]

I detangle wet in the shower with my tangle Teezer for curly/thick hair, and dry with a wide tooth horn comb or with my fingers :)

[Stray_mind]

I detangle my hair when it's almost dry. I am using my fingers for that. I usually just finger comb in the morning, unless i need to use dry shampoo