Starting afresh

[hikarilu]

Hello,

I'm just back from the hairdresser... I chopped 15cm on a whim because i was frustrated. I had massive breakage and a big shed these past 2 months or so.
I don't understand what i did wrong except from shampooing everyday...
I use sulfate free shampoo and can't untangle (tangle teezer) my very fine hair without a cony condish.
I oil my hair every night before a shampoo... Is it possible to oil too much? my hair looks better when i oil the night before my shampoo...
I sleep with a braid and try to have my hair up as much as possible but i grow my hair because i like how i look when it's done so i'm still not ready to put it up all the time.

Any idea on what i can try to prevent breakage now i chopped this much ? I don't wanna make the same mistakes again..

Thanks and sorry for the bad english :-)

[Taliara]

Hey Hik,

Do you use much heat on your hair? and do you brush it when it's wet? Those are the main things I found (other than dye) that contributed to a lot of breakage for me. I can't speak too much with regards to the oil front as I only oil the ends of my hair once every 2 weeks or so.

I also only ever shampoo my scalp and the condition the lengths, not sure if this differs to your routine but it may help if it does :)

[hikarilu]

Hey Taliara, thanks for your answer :)
I don't use any heating tools but i wonder if i should air dry on the cool setting in winter?
I brush it when it's not dry yet but still a bit damp. My hair is veeery tangle prone and i can't look presentable with tangled hair at work.

I do the same shampoo and condish routine than you since i get the greasies very easily :-)

[Kherome]

Well brushing at all is bad, but when damp is worse, wearing down causes friction damage, and no, you shouldn't blow dry it on any setting. You have pretty much the same hair type as I do. Any blow drying will be bad regardless of temp. My hair will not tolerate it so I'm guessing yours is much the same. You really need to stop daily washing because that not only dries it (and then you put cones on it and seal moisture out) but it also adds friction damage. So, you'll have to make some sacrifices if you want to not repeat your cut today. I sympathize. It's not an easy hair type to have.

[Kherome]

Also, I highly recommend investing in a chelating shampoo (NOT clarifying) and using it. I've found my hair doesn't do well unless I keep it free of mineral build up and such and that may have been part of your issue too.

[Taliara]

I would agree to try and avoid using heat. I'm currently weining myself off heat at the moment and it's making a massive difference.

If you can avoid brushing it while it is damp that's also a big bonus. I try to focus on using a very wide toothed comb when I brush mine. I'm slowly trying to avoid brushing it at all when it's damp but I know how difficult that can be when you've gone from always brushing it.

I'm still working on the not washing it everyday but I really struggle with this one as I love how my hair feels after a wash :x but Kherome is correct and it will help avoid the breakage!

[hikarilu]

Well brushing at all is bad, but when damp is worse, wearing down causes friction damage, and no, you shouldn't blow dry it on any setting. You have pretty much the same hair type as I do. Any blow drying will be bad regardless of temp. My hair will not tolerate it so I'm guessing yours is much the same. You really need to stop daily washing because that not only dries it (and then you put cones on it and seal moisture out) but it also adds friction damage. So, you'll have to make some sacrifices if you want to not repeat your cut today. I sympathize. It's not an easy hair type to have.

Thanks for the advice :-)
I guess I'll make an effort on the washing everyday thing starting today.
Do you find detangling when damp with my fingers and/or with a wide tooth comb okay?

Do you have a chelating shampoo to suggest to me? I can't find this kind of thing around here so if I'm trying it I'm gonna have to buy it online anyway...

[hikarilu]

I would agree to try and avoid using heat. I'm currently weining myself off heat at the moment and it's making a massive difference.

If you can avoid brushing it while it is damp that's also a big bonus. I try to focus on using a very wide toothed comb when I brush mine. I'm slowly trying to avoid brushing it at all when it's damp but I know how difficult that can be when you've gone from always brushing it.

I'm still working on the not washing it everyday but I really struggle with this one as I love how my hair feels after a wash :x but Kherome is correct and it will help avoid the breakage!


I feel so icky too when i don't wash everyday !!! Nasty, right?
I don't use heat at all, but i'm afraid going out on winter (it's not cold here but there is a lot of wind...I live by the seaside) with wet hair may harm it...

[gustavonut]

Maybe you need a better shampoo as well. And I agree to stay away from cones the best you can, I have a hard time doing that.
Also, finger combing very gently should work, just don't touch your hair too much or it will get greasy faster. I didn't comb my hair for a couple days and it is thicker and much nicer than usual.
Try an ACV rinse, that always helps me when I get lots of build-up.
Annnnd... Don't use a hair dryer ever if possible. I stand a foot away from a fan for a bit and that helps me. Also, if your hair gets tangled from sleeping with it down, then try a French braid or a braid that you think will hold. It helped me a lot with the bed-head.
Good luck!

[hikarilu]

Maybe you need a better shampoo as well. And I agree to stay away from cones the best you can, I have a hard time doing that.
Also, finger combing very gently should work, just don't touch your hair too much or it will get greasy faster. I didn't comb my hair for a couple days and it is thicker and much nicer than usual.
Try an ACV rinse, that always helps me when I get lots of build-up.
Annnnd... Don't use a hair dryer ever if possible. I stand a foot away from a fan for a bit and that helps me. Also, if your hair gets tangled from sleeping with it down, then try a French braid or a braid that you think will hold. It helped me a lot with the bed-head.
Good luck!

Thanks :)

What do you mean by a better shampoo?

[Kherome]

I feel so icky too when i don't wash everyday !!! Nasty, right?
I don't use heat at all, but i'm afraid going out on winter (it's not cold here but there is a lot of wind...I live by the seaside) with wet hair may harm it...

It is hardly nasty. There are plenty of people on this board who NEVER wash their hair, at all. They aren't nasty.

As for chelating shampoos I like L'anza the best.

[hikarilu]

It is hardly nasty. There are plenty of people on this board who NEVER wash their hair, at all. They aren't nasty.

As for chelating shampoos I like L'anza the best.

I know that. The feeling is nasty, not the fact ;)

Thanks, i'll look into it :)

[torrilin]

Your English is better than my French :). No way can I even think how to write your post in French.

For me, up was easy to get used to because I am both lazy and I have sensitive skin. If my hair is loose it tickles my skin and makes me itch. Ew. Up means less fussing and itching, and I am not fond of either. I tend to prefer braids to buns... this is a style thing, and other folks prefer buns. Whichever you like best, use that. There aren't a lot of work situations where a neat updo is unacceptable. Even one extra day of updo a week at work can go a long way towards helping your hair.

I got by fine for years with daily washing. It is drying, no question. Rather than trying to cut back on the frequency of washes, I'd look at two things: leave in conditioner and gentler wash methods. I started out as a kid washing every inch of my hair with lots of sodium laureth sulfate shampoo, so not exactly the mildest method. And I'd pile it on my hair and scrub! It worked out ok for me because I was addicted to leave in conditioner. Leave in conditioners really help with detangling. This is a great and glorious addiction that I strongly recommend trying, especially for fine or very curly hair. Many "regular" conditioners can be used as a leave in (and a good leave in can be used on wet hair, no problem, and they pretty much all will work fine as a rinse out). Try your regular stuff that way, and see how it works for you. If it works, great. If it doesn't... you're washing your hair again tomorrow, so it's not like the mistake will last long.

For gentler methods, I'd start by just shampooing your scalp. Experiment with that, see how it works out for you. For me, it led to a LOT less tangles (obviously, given the terrible methods I'd started out with).

If scalp washes work out well, try diluting your regular shampoo. The old saying "the dose makes the poison" is very true. Lots of things are fine in small doses and a problem in big ones. And well, diluting your shampoo is cheap too. No fancy new products to buy, and it makes your regular stuff last ridiculously long. If a shampoo is drying, that means it contains strong detergents. Diluting it means you're using less detergent each time, and that will be less drying than the straight up version.

I don't think cones in your conditioner are automatically a problem. Some cones are water soluble, others aren't. If the silicones worry, you, read up on the exact ones in your favorite. Wikipedia tends to be a really good starting place for basic chemistry stuff like this. If the French version is lacking, we can try to puzzle out the English. Part of why it's such a good starting place is because the bibliography tends to be awesome and filled with the original research.

Like Kherome, my hair doesn't tolerate blow drying. I don't think it's an automatic bad thing... some posters do very well with it. For me tho, it's a no-no. It leads to tangles, and tangles lead nowhere good.

For detangling, I do like a curly person, and I detangle in the shower with a wide tooth comb or finger combing and a lot of conditioner. My lot is WAY less than a super-curly would use, but it's still plenty. Then once my hair is detangled, I don't mess with it. If I leave it to air dry down, it can look pretty freaky and tangled at some stages of drying. In reality tho, it's not tangled, it's just wet. The apparent tangles go away when it's dry all the way... which can take a solid 8-12 hours for me, so I tend not to wear my hair loose much :P. Fine hair can really hang on to water. My solution is to just braid or bun my hair while it's wet, and get on with my life. (this can be potentially damaging too... everything you can possibly think of to do to your hair, including sit absolutely still, can damage it. the idea is to find compromises that fit YOUR life.)

I don't know how hair care products are marketed in France... in the US often leave in conditioner is considered a "black" thing, so it can be hard to find. Really it's a hair thing. If you're having a hard time finding a conditioner meant for leave in use, just keep experimenting with regular conditioners. That's what I did as a kid whenever the brand I liked stopped making my favorite conditioner. Experimenting for a small bottle or three of conditioner won't ruin your hair. You get used to keeping track of what ingredients work well for you, so it gets faster to find a new one when you need it.

[gustavonut]

Thanks for the advice :-)
I guess I'll make an effort on the washing everyday thing starting today.
Do you find detangling when damp with my fingers and/or with a wide tooth comb okay?

Do you have a chelating shampoo to suggest to me? I can't find this kind of thing around here so if I'm trying it I'm gonna have to buy it online anyway...

I use ACV for chelating. It works for me, and I have really hard water.
And yes of course, as long as you are gentle :) I started finger combing recently and it's improved the waviness and thickness a lot. And if you can find a wooden wide tooth comb, and I mean REALLY wide, you will get the same effect and it's a lot gentler for your hair.

[MsPharaohMoan]

Hey Taliara, thanks for your answer :)
I don't use any heating tools but i wonder if i should air dry on the cool setting in winter?
I brush it when it's not dry yet but still a bit damp. My hair is veeery tangle prone and i can't look presentable with tangled hair at work.

I do the same shampoo and condish routine than you since i get the greasies very easily :-)

Ah hah! Do you wear your hair down throughout the day? Little things will get you - resting your head on your headrest, trapping hairs between you and chairs, heck, even just turning your head side to side can cause friction (and tangles for me) on the under layer of your hair, especially with an unforgiving fabric. I suggest learning a few buns and trying to up the time your hair is up. Also keep in mind the bleach damage, you want to be extra careful with your ends while you're growing that out.

From my own experience:
BSL was a strange place for me. That part of my back isn't very sensitive so I couldn't always tell the difference in lengths or when hair grew. Hair was very mysterious back then. I found I had to be extra conscious of my ends so I knew if I would rub up against them (I wore my hair down at this length).

[Sparklylady82]

Does your shampoo and/or conditioner contain any protein ingrediants? I believe protein can make hair really tangly if your hair doesn't like it...Just another idea. If your hair is wet and very tangly even combing could break it.

[gustavonut]

Thanks :)

What do you mean by a better shampoo?

As in a shampoo that your hair likes. You could consider cowashing, or try shampoo bars? Good luck!

[TSwan]

I know it sounds weird...but that's basically what my hair was like when it was over moisturized.
I tried 101 different moisturizing products, from natural to super coney, and nothing helped.
I actually needed protein (as opposite as it sounds).
Would that help?