don't know what to do with hair..always ends up dry and tangly

[Enrapture]

Hello!

I've been on a natural hair journey quite a while (2-3 years) and since then I've tried to grow out my hair. With no success. I never use any heat, no sulphates. But it always ends up dry, tangly, frizzy and i need to cut it off. And the cycle never ends. It is the same length since I started growing it out.

Yesterday I cut it from waist length to barely BSL. It was a mess - it kept getting frizzy , it was nowhere near soft. I'm quite disappointed that my hair grows very slow and when it finally grows the same length it was before cutting it, I need to cut it again, because it takes such a long time that it gets damaged by that time. I has grown about 2.5 inches since March. :( I've tried biotin, silica. I eat healthy(paleo) and still nothing makes it grow faster.

I'm gonna be trying WO from now on. Do you have any suggestions with oils or rinses that I can do with the WO? Or what should I do/ not do?

[Clarkie]

Hello!

I've been on a natural hair journey quite a while (2-3 years) and since then I've tried to grow out my hair. With no success. I never use any heat, no sulphates. But it always ends up dry, tangly, frizzy and i need to cut it off. And the cycle never ends. It is the same length since I started growing it out.

Yesterday I cut it from waist length to barely BSL. It was a mess - it kept getting frizzy , it was nowhere near soft. I'm quite disappointed that my hair grows very slow and when it finally grows the same length it was before cutting it, I need to cut it again, because it takes such a long time that it gets damaged by that time. I has grown about 2.5 inches since March. :( I've tried biotin, silica. I eat healthy(paleo) and still nothing makes it grow faster.

I'm gonna be trying WO from now on. Do you have any suggestions with oils or rinses that I can do with the WO? Or what should I do/ not do?

Have you tried oiling the ends at all? I've found that this has made a huge difference in the texture of my hair. I've used coconut oil, baby oil and Orofluido which is a combination of argan, cyperus and linseed oil.
I oil the bottom 2-3 inches of my hair 3-4 times a week at bedtime. By morning the oil has soaked in. My hair is soft, smooth and I have no splits. I CO wash once or twice a week.
I don't know anything about WO but I'm sure you'll find loads of good advice here.
Good luck, it must be so frustrating to have to chop after growing for so long.

[Aurum]

It does sound like your hair would appreciate some oiling, especially if you live in a dry climate. It's amazing what a difference moisture can make.
Concerning the frizzy, tangly issue... Do you do any kind of protective styles to keep your hair from tangling? I know wind can wreak havoc on hair that isn't secured. Even simple braiding can keep your strands protected from the elements and from each other.

[spidermom]

Frizzy hair often means that you're brushing out and disturbing the wave pattern. Try using nothing but a wide-toothed comb while you have conditioner in your hair.

Oiling before washing is a good practice also, but if you're doing WO that might end up being way too much oil since you won't be washing the natural oil away. I wouldn't be able to stand that, personally. I need to have fresh, clean hair at least once or twice a week. Oily hair makes my scalp itch.

[Chromis]

When my hair gets tangly and dry like that usually a stronger acidic rinse than I normally use really helps. I like to do a mix of apple cider vinegar and citric acid. Other people use special clarifying or chelating shampoos to take care of mineral build up.

I am a fan of oiling too, but if oiling isn't enough, usually my super hard water is the culprit!

[fairy_hair]

Mine does too sometimes :\ Whenever my hair feels dry and tangly, I use a little olive oil on my ends :) also, have you tried using a boar bristle brush? I use one, and since I got it, my ends have really improved :)

[lapushka]

Before trying all sorts of different washing methods, I'd first maybe try to get off the natural boat. Natural isn't always better, and if you've been struggling with that for years, my gosh, I'd have tried something different product-wise a long long time ago.

[meteor]

My hunch is that tangly, dry hair could be due to build-up. I think it's actually pretty easy to develop build-up with "natural" hair-care products (they tend to contain lots of herbal extracts that can build up), especially since you don't use sulfates.

I'd clarify and use a moisturizing treatment like SMT + oils.
If you have hard water build-up, use a chelating/swimmers shampoo once in a while and/or an acidic rinse.

[burny]

for the problem of "I grow it for 6-10 months, and then have to cut all the growth off" problem. How often do you trim/S&D? if your ends are damaged, it's pretty important to get them trimmed up, or the damage will spread up the hair(damage spreads faster than it forms). S&D is surely the way to go if you want to get as much length as possible in a short time frame, but trimming can work just as well(but doesn't get length quite as quickly, since trim will cut ALL the hairs, not just the damaged ones).

If on the other hand, it is just frizzy/tangly, and not damaged: then I would suggest that using a tiny bit of oil(I use coconut myself), can help reduce frizzyness a lot(I have 35" length 6" ponytail, and have been using about a teaspoon per 2-3weeks). If you use more, and let it soak in for 2-20hours before a wash, it can help protect your hair from water/minerals/etc. as you wash it. As others have suggested(but I have no experience with it myself), 'build-up' on the hair can cause the strands to stick together more, I wouldn't expect that a 2" trim would 'fix' that though, so I would guess it's frizzy/damage.

[terryn]

I am curious as to what you have been doing, before switching to wo? I am a natural everything enthusiast as sticking to use less processed products has made a huge positive difference for me. I am sorry this has been happening to your hair, but I agree wit everyone else that step 1 is likely oiling and seeing where that gets you.

[Enrapture]

Thank you everyone for responses!
I will definitely try oiling. I did more hot oil treatments in the past, but I never liked them, as they were hard to get out of my hair.
I have a question - what would be the best oil to do oiling? And should I do it on wet hair/dry, before or after shower?

lapushka - before all this I used cones and sulphates and my hair was in an even worse condition. It has been a lot better since then.

burny - I used to S&D quite a lot, but stopped. I think I will start doing it again!

terryn - I used low poo, cone free conditioners, then I started washing hair with only conditioner (homemade), but then i switched to Indian washing herbs, but they were pain to wash out. So I think WO would be good for me as I don't want to use any products anymore.

[lapushka]

lapushka - before all this I used cones and sulphates and my hair was in an even worse condition. It has been a lot better since then.

Why not try LOC, to keep in moisture right after you wash. You put a leave-in on, a few drops of oil or a serum and gel/cream for styling (but that's optional).

[Johannah]

Thank you everyone for responses!
I will definitely try oiling. I did more hot oil treatments in the past, but I never liked them, as they were hard to get out of my hair.
I have a question - what would be the best oil to do oiling? And should I do it on wet hair/dry, before or after shower?

lapushka - before all this I used cones and sulphates and my hair was in an even worse condition. It has been a lot better since then.

burny - I used to S&D quite a lot, but stopped. I think I will start doing it again!

terryn - I used low poo, cone free conditioners, then I started washing hair with only conditioner (homemade), but then i switched to Indian washing herbs, but they were pain to wash out. So I think WO would be good for me as I don't want to use any products anymore.

Coconut oil is a good oil to start with. Most people like this oil. I use it on dry hair, from ears down and leave it overnight. If I use shampoo, I can't wash everything out but when I use CO, my hair is really clean AND soft. Maybe this is something to try.

[LadyCelestina]

coco betaine in sulfate free shampoo can remove cones,so if you suffer from rough frizzy but not damaged hair,they might be the answer.

Do you know your porosity? Do you wear your hair down often?

[LadyCelestina]

Oh I don't know if you can salvage truly dry hair by doing hardcore WO :( Water is quite drying.

[Enrapture]

coco betaine in sulfate free shampoo can remove cones,so if you suffer from rough frizzy but not damaged hair,they might be the answer. Do you know your porosity? Do you wear your hair down often?
I don't know my porosity. Sometimes it acts like low (squeaking test) and doesn't soak up the products. But sometimes as high, especially in damp weather.

Oh I don't know if you can salvage truly dry hair by doing hardcore WO :( Water is quite drying.
I don't really want to return to shampoo, because I can never find any good one and if I use shampoo, I need a conditioner, which I too have problem finding.And I don't want to really use any commercial products. :(

Coconut oil is a good oil to start with.
Thanks! I'll try it.

[Gertrude]

Many natural and sulphate free shampoos are actually a good deal less mild chemically than conventional formulas. I posted this before, so forgive the repetition, but I was devoted to sulphate free and natural despite getting contact dermatitis more than once.

My friend is a bio chemist and often demonstrates simple science in the school our children attend.She used testing strips for PH and acid levels on different shampoos including my natural ones at a playdate and the natural ones were much harsher than the more mainstream shampoos. Which was her hunch about my natural shampoo not being so good for me.

Cleaning happens with micelles, and micelles are formed from a combination of ingredients and detergents. The more restricted the formula the less kind the micelles are. A very wide formulation containing some SLS with other detergents is milder.

There's a lot of mis-information on detergents in the natural sphere. Like that betaines are helpless and mild. In some formulations they are, in others they can absolutely strip oil like sodium lauryl sulphate.

The cosy sounding Sodium Coco-Sulphate is in Urtekram and Attitude and lots of natural formulations. It's sligthly less refined sodium lauryl sulphate but has the same chemical number. A regular formula with sodium laureth sulphate is going to be much gentler.

The frizz could be wave pattern being disrupted by brushing or severe dryness. In which case you need to find kinder products and keep an open mind about what kind to get.

[lapushka]

Many natural and sulphate free shampoos are actually a good deal less mild chemically than conventional formulas. I posted this before, so forgive the repetition, but I was devoted to sulphate free and natural despite getting contact dermatitis more than once.

My friend is a bio chemist and often demonstrates simple science in the school our children attend.She used testing strips for PH and acid levels on different shampoos including my natural ones at a playdate and the natural ones were much harsher than the more mainstream shampoos. Which was her hunch about my natural shampoo not being so good for me.

Cleaning happens with micelles, and micelles are formed from a combination of ingredients and detergents. The more restricted the formula the less kind the micelles are. A very wide formulation containing some SLS with other detergents is milder.

There's a lot of mis-information on detergents in the natural sphere. Like that betaines are helpless and mild. In some formulations they are, in others they can absolutely strip oil like sodium lauryl sulphate.

The cosy sounding Sodium Coco-Sulphate is in Urtekram and Attitude and lots of natural formulations. It's sligthly less refined sodium lauryl sulphate but has the same chemical number. A regular formula with sodium laureth sulphate is going to be much gentler.

The frizz could be wave pattern being disrupted by brushing or severe dryness. In which case you need to find kinder products and keep an open mind about what kind to get.

This is very helpful information. Thanks for posting! :D

[Enrapture]

Many natural and sulphate free shampoos are actually a good deal less mild chemically than conventional formulas. I posted this before, so forgive the repetition, but I was devoted to sulphate free and natural despite getting contact dermatitis more than once.

My friend is a bio chemist and often demonstrates simple science in the school our children attend.She used testing strips for PH and acid levels on different shampoos including my natural ones at a playdate and the natural ones were much harsher than the more mainstream shampoos. Which was her hunch about my natural shampoo not being so good for me.

Cleaning happens with micelles, and micelles are formed from a combination of ingredients and detergents. The more restricted the formula the less kind the micelles are. A very wide formulation containing some SLS with other detergents is milder.

There's a lot of mis-information on detergents in the natural sphere. Like that betaines are helpless and mild. In some formulations they are, in others they can absolutely strip oil like sodium lauryl sulphate.

The cosy sounding Sodium Coco-Sulphate is in Urtekram and Attitude and lots of natural formulations. It's sligthly less refined sodium lauryl sulphate but has the same chemical number. A regular formula with sodium laureth sulphate is going to be much gentler.

The frizz could be wave pattern being disrupted by brushing or severe dryness. In which case you need to find kinder products and keep an open mind about what kind to get.

Very interesting information. Now I don't even know what to do. Should I do WO or just use shampoo (but then again, how do I know if it's mild/gentle? :confused:)

[Carolyn]

If I were you I'd try to get over the thought that only "natural" is better and it's going to cure your dry hair. I would suggest no brushing, wide tooth comb only. Oil your ends and bun your hair. Don't wear it down often. I would do a clarifying shampoo and then do a deep conditioning with a heavy moisturizing conditioner. Do it with a heat cap if you can. Have you tried CO washing? Have you tried diluting your shampoo and only washing your scalp? Conditioner is your friend.

[spidermom]

There is a WO thread floating around out there. If you want to go that route, you will find a lot of information there.

Interestingly, conditioner removes oil better than shampoo does. I wait until the hair at my scalp gets oily, then I oil my length with coconut oil and braid for overnight. Then I wash my scalp with diluted shampoo, apply conditioner over the oil, and let it rest while I do all the other things I need to do in the shower or bath. Then I massage/finger-comb the hair with conditioner in it while I rinse, and the oil almost always comes out. Occasionally when it's very hot, it's harder to get the oil out, but I wear my hair bunned or braided until it's time to wash it again, and the oil always comes out then. Sometimes while it's wet, it feels like there is still too much oil on my hair, but by the time it's dry, it's clean and soft and silky.

If you haven't clarified in awhile, get some clarifying shampoo and give your hair a good wash. Do this even if you're going to try WO. That and baking soda is the only way to get rid of buildup, and baking soda is very harsh and can dry your hair out even more than it already is. Sometimes clarifying is like a miracle because it's the buildup that is making your hair feel dried out.

As Carolyn suggested, follow clarifying with a conditioning treatment.

[Enrapture]

If I were you I'd try to get over the thought that only "natural" is better and it's going to cure your dry hair. I would suggest no brushing, wide tooth comb only. Oil your ends and bun your hair. Don't wear it down often. I would do a clarifying shampoo and then do a deep conditioning with a heavy moisturizing conditioner. Do it with a heat cap if you can. Have you tried CO washing? Have you tried diluting your shampoo and only washing your scalp? Conditioner is your friend.

I have tried CO washing, but I could never find any good conditioner and stopped. I think i might give it a try again and if it doesn't work i will do WO. Only need to find one now.

[Horrorpops]

Gertrude what interesting info about the different shampoo options!! Its funny because I always found a low SLS shampoo a bit gentler than natural shampoos I have tried.. maybe this is why! Definitely helps me relieve my sulphate guilt!!

[lapushka]

I always wondered why my scalp reacted about the same to my harsher cleansers (sls & sles, such as Pantene, Herbal Essences) as my Urtekram shampoo.

[Madora]

Here is a video tutorial by LHC's own Heidi W, on how to oil your hair https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjVwPKMQDYk
Have you tried gentle upside down daily massage to stimulate your follicles to greater growth? Be sure and detangle your hair before and after the massage. use your fingerpads, never your nails.

As far as shampooing, use something gentle (dilute it a bit with water). You cannot have healthy hair unless your scalp is clean. Only wash when your hair needs it!
Keep your hair detangled and up in protective styles.
If you are not a curly, then I recommend daily brushing, with a pure boar bristle brush, for keeping your hair clean, healthy and soft and shiny.
Water Only does not cleanse the hair.
If you want to use oil, then I recommend mineral oil (baby oil). Use only 2 drops (applied to your palms, never from the bottle to your scalp).
MO helps tame the frizzies, leaves no afterscent, washes out easily in the next shampoo. It is also very lightweight. Great detangler, too! Works best on hair that has been clarified first, but you can also use it on slightly damp hair. Use sparingly! I use it for detangling.

[Anje]

Oh I don't know if you can salvage truly dry hair by doing hardcore WO :( Water is quite drying.
This is my thinking. I did 8 months of WO and ended up stopping largely because my ends were drying out too much with it. The oils I was applying and the oils from my scalp weren't sufficient to take care of my ends.

So here's what I'd suggest:
Start by clarifying your hair. Shampoo all the way to the ends (usually you want to concentrate shampoo on your scalp and just let what runs down get your ends) using something like an SLS shampoo, full strength. This will help get any buildup off, but it's for occasional use only because it can be too harsh to do constantly.

Follow it up with an SMT, which is a moisturizing treatment that works well for a lot of people. There's a link in my signature for that. Leave it in for about 30 minutes, then just rinse it out.

-------

How are you wearing your hair most days? I often see people with bad ends below APL or BSLish who wear their hair down consistently -- my best guess is that leaning against it in chairs and the like is often the major cause for this. Updos that tuck the ends deep inside, held with something hair-friendly, are usually your best option for great ends, but they don't show off the length much.

[ErinLeigh]

It sounds like you hair is dry and most likely has buildup from the Indian Herbs.
I would suggest a chelating wash (in case you have hard water) or at least a clarifying wash.
I would follow that wash with a really good deep conditioner and let sit 30 minutes under a shower cap.
Rinse about 90% of the conditioner out and then squeeze out excess water. Once hair is not soaking wet add an oil to help seal in the moisture. A pea size or 2 depending on length. Rub it between palm to get it warmed up glide down the canopy and ends in a praying hands motion. Any washes the rest of week..use conditioner to co wash and re seal. After a week or 2 things should start to feel better if dryness is the cause. You can then sort out how often you want to shampoo from there or figure out your routine. I just think excluding dryness as a problem first would help.

Since frizz is also a reported problem..do not comb/brush it during the drying process. This should help also.
Once dry you add a little shea butter/coconut oil to smooth any frizzies if you have them.

Just my suggestion but I do understand not wanting to use products.
If you are thinking of going WO, it would still be best to clarify first for a fresh slate.