Is there a rating system to define damage/splits/white dots?

[LauraLongLocks]

It seems as though our descriptions of our hair damage/splits/white dots are subjective. Does anyone know of a definitive rating system?

If not, why don't we create one? That would be fun!

I don't have experience with bleach/dye/heat damage really, so I don't know how that relates to splits and white dots. With splits and white dots, you could literally take a number of strands and count how many you see in that number. Then you could take that number and assign a rating based on how severe it is. Does chemical and heat damage cause splits and white dots primarily, or is there some other sort of visible-to-naked-eye damage that could be used to rate the severity of it?

What would be some good rating categories for splits and white dots? How about these?

Shave your head, it's that bad (nothing worth saving)!

Very severe, get a big chop (need to lose several inches to gain any headway on it).

Severe, trim aggressively (meaning all hair growth every month or more).

High, trim frequently (meaning around half your hair growth every month or two).

Moderate, trim regularly (meaning a quarterly trim schedule should keep up on those splits just fine).

Mild, no trim needed right now, but check again in 6 months or so.

None (what the heck is your secret, we all want to know!?!).


Each of these proposed ratings could have a corresponding letter or number to indicate severity instead of my goofy descriptions. How many damaged vs healthy hair ends I really don't know how to classify. If you take a handful of 50 strands of hair in at least three places on your head and then count, say 10,7, and 13 splits on each chunk, respectively, how damaged is that?

Any thoughts on this?

[Sarahlabyrinth]

This all sounds reaaally complicated, do you think we really need a rating system?

[LauraLongLocks]

I think it would be similar to the hair typing system. Having a hair typing system helps people to define their texture, thickness, and volume in terms everyone can understand. Having a damage rating system would help a lot when someone posts that their hair is SOOOO damaged. Well, just how damaged is that?

[Rushli]

It could be really complicated or it could be helpful. A lot of people post asking if they should chop their hair, so some sort of guide of when s&d is enough and when a trim is in order could be great. Really anything requiring a chop either is because your hair is falling out in clumps or personally you don't want to deal with treating and maintaining damaged hair.

Not that I could be of any help creating it since I would rate at as a "none" :P

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Me too, Rushli. Don't quite know how that happens.

[LauraLongLocks]

Maybe the rating system should exclude advice, but I wanted to give an idea of severity in my proposed descriptions so that it would translate to every reader in some sort of definitive terminology.

I also think, after reviewing my OP that 6 ratings is too many. If there is to be any rating system at all, it should be limited to 3-5 categories, with "none" being one of them.

I don't know, it's just so often that I see a post where someone says their hair is damaged and they are trimming it out slowly, or they want to know if they should do a big chop. I just thought if there was a rating system, it would be easier to understand just how damaged their hair is. Counting splits would be a fairly straightforward way to rate hair damage.

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Yes, it could be that a system with 3 or 4 categories would work. People could hair type and damage type their hair.

[LauraLongLocks]

Yes, four categories - none, mild, moderate, severe. How many splits per strands would go into each category? Instructions would best include taking at least three sections from different parts of the head and then averaging them, I think, but what do you think?

[Rushli]

I don't know, it's just so often that I see a post where someone says their hair is damaged and they are trimming it out slowly, or they want to know if they should do a big chop. I just thought if there was a rating system, it would be easier to understand just how damaged their hair is. Counting splits would be a fairly straightforward way to rate hair damage.

I like definition and categories, so deep inside I want to join you on your quest. I just don't have any experience to help. Would you just go by number of splits or by percentage?

[LauraLongLocks]

I would go by number of splits vs number of strands, which is percentage. Defining it this way would help the mathematically challenged to figure out how much damage they have more easily than looking at their hair and guessing the percent. Also, choosing hair from at least three sections on the head gives a more accurate percentage than just taking hair from one part of the head.

[LauraLongLocks]

How many splits per 150 strands (three sections of 50) is mild? Moderate? Severe?

[LauraLongLocks]

If half or more of the hair is split, could we all agree that is severe?

How about 1/3rd of the hair? That still seems severe to me.

I think 1/4th of the hair being split would be the high end of the moderate damage range.

1/10th to 1/8th as splits seems mild to me.

What do you think?

[Larki]

I think this is a brilliant, very helpful idea, LLL!

[Madora]

One thing makes me wonder how equalizing the ratings system would be, for as you know, some folks use cones, which make the hair appear much better than it truly is (in some cases). So their hair would be "camouflaged", for lack of a better description, as opposed to someone who did not use cones and whose hair looks more damaged. I think in order for the results to be on an even footing, all participants should be cone free.

[LauraLongLocks]

I think this is a brilliant, very helpful idea, LLL! Thank you. Still trying to formulate something that seems intelligent here. :)


One thing makes me wonder how equalizing the ratings system would be, for as you know, some folks use cones, which make the hair appear much better than it truly is (in some cases). So their hair would be "camouflaged", for lack of a better description, as opposed to someone who did not use cones and whose hair looks more damaged. I think in order for the results to be on an even footing, all participants should be cone free.

Even as a dedicated cone user, I have to say you are probably right. So, just one clarify wash with shampoo is all that would be needed, right? Just like we do with hair typing to define curl pattern, really. Does it need to be a clarifying specific shampoo, or just one that contains SLS or SLES, followed with a no-cone conditioner (if desired)?

What do you think of my estimations of damage in relation to severity?

[CurlyCap]

Just chiming in to remind that not all damage is splits. A person can have severe heat damage and chemical damage, but also frequently cut their hair and so appear split-free.

In my case, my hair almost never splits, so I trim based on velcro ends.

So if such a rating system was devised, I think there would be a lot of postings like "My hair has no splits, but is breaking and won't curl! Please help!" Lol, it is the LHC way.

Edited to be productive instead of just critical:
I'd list categories of damage:
Splits
Chemical damage (porosity, bleaching, perming)
Heat damage
Moisture disregulation (overly dry, over hydrated)
Etc (please recommend more categories)

Then I'd place people in categories based on how many TYPES of damage they have. A person with just splits likely needs to just get a good trim and learn how to detangle safely. A person with splits and chemical damage needs to learn how to protect what hair they have while new hair grows in, knowing the ends will be very fragile. People with many categories of damage may need to consider starting fresh with a pixie or trimming/maintaining if their ultimate goal is long hair.

[LauraLongLocks]

Just chiming in to remind that not all damage is splits. A person can have severe heat damage and chemical damage, but also frequently cut their hair and so appear split-free.

In my case, my hair almost never splits, so I trim based on velcro ends.

So if such a rating system was devised, I think there would be a lot of postings like "My hair has no splits, but is breaking and won't curl! Please help!" Lol, it is the LHC way.

Edited to be productive instead of just critical:
I'd list categories of damage:
Splits
Chemical damage (porosity, bleaching, perming)
Heat damage
Moisture disregulation (overly dry, over hydrated)
Etc (please recommend more categories)

Then I'd place people in categories based on how many TYPES of damage they have. A person with just splits likely needs to just get a good trim and learn how to detangle safely. A person with splits and chemical damage needs to learn how to protect what hair they have while new hair grows in, knowing the ends will be very fragile. People with many categories of damage may need to consider starting fresh with a pixie or trimming/maintaining if their ultimate goal is long hair.

Thank you for your input. In my OP I did say I am unfamiliar with any types of damage aside from splits, so I was looking for more input on that and you have given it. How can you define the severity of the non-split sort of damage?

[neko_kawaii]

There is also the matter of WHERE the splits are to take into consideration. Some people literally just find splits at the very ends. Others find splits all over the place. Sometimes that can indicate a particular type of mechanical damage that may be avoidable such as glasses, rubbing on collars, trapped under straps, rubbing on chairs, ponytail or braid hair tie damage.

[Rushli]

It seems like under each category, there could be descriptions which can help the person know how much of that damage there is of that type. Mechanical damage would be one more category.

[gustavonut]

Mind=blown
That would just change everything in my opinion. And I agree with Rushii, even though it's a long process, but it would help everyone out.
I think it's an awesome idea. :toast:

[Phexlyn]

I really like this idea, but I think it would be more productive to have a sort of catalog of questions than a typing system. Damage is just too individual and there are too many types to fit into a single system (but you may prove me wrong).

As others have pointed out, we need a more general picture of the damaged hair. Is it chemical damage, mechanical damage, which kind, where on the head and hair shaft, how much, when did it first occur, which other problems there are etc. etc.

I also think that whether hair is "dry", "porous", "velcro" and such highly depends on where you're coming from, i.e. your hairtype and previous experience. Dry hair may look and feel a bit different on a straight and fine head as opposed to a thick and coarse head - but I'm not entirely sure, because I've only had this one head of hair all my life... :lol:

[GetMeToWaist]

People that are abysmal at math/logic like me will probably pass on this system, it is quite complicated!

[Panth]

IMO, it sounds like your system is simultaneously far too complicated and far, far too arbitrary. I'm quite sure there's no evidence for whether 30% of ends having splits is functionally more similar to having 20% of them split or 40% of them split.

You're making up a classification system that relies on absolutely no evidence. If it's simply used to classify, then that's just making an added complication (and confusion) for no reason other than for the OP (and contributors) to have a fun project. If it's used to target advice to people (especially drastic, irreversible advice like major trims), then that has a massive potential for disseminating bad, harmful and non-scientific advice based on purely invented ... rubbish.

How would you feel if someone chopped off all their hair, not because they needed to but because they (or someone who advised them) took your project a bit too seriously?

[LauraLongLocks]

Good points, everyone. Thank you for your criticisms and your advice. To those who are telling me this is too complicated, I say, it hasn't been formulated yet. I'm brainstorming. Throwing ideas out there and asking for more ideas to be contributed. So, please withhold any judgements on this until it actually comes to fruition, IF it comes to fruition.

I don't know how to define damage in terms that can be understood by everyone. The photo idea might be a really good way to start thinking about this. I, for example, have no understanding of what velcro ends are, but I have plenty of experience with splits. Splits are objective and countable, too, whereas some of these other descriptions are too subjective for me to understand what they mean. Maybe if I had photos of velcro ends, or a very good description, or both of these I would understand it. What does chemical damage look like? What does heat damage look like? Does anyone have any really great photos and descriptions to help define these terms?

[LauraLongLocks]

Just went back and reread your post, Phexlyn. I think the catalog of questions is probably a good idea, because it is so easy to be subjective... maybe like a multiple choice type of questionnaire? My split counting could be a part of that, as one of the questions. The questions could be divided up by category. Most of us know what kind of damage we have, meaning we know if we used heat tools or dyed our hair. So, there could be a questionnaire for each type of damage possibly. Just throwing out ideas. Don't throw rocks back at me, please, folks.

[Phexlyn]

I'm glad you like the idea, LauraLongLocks, and I think we're off to a good start ;)
Splits should definitely be included, though not necessarily by counting. I'd see this "system" more as a guide to understanding one's own hair better and less as a strict "folder" system.

[Rushli]

I'd see this "system" more as a guide to understanding one's own hair better and less as a strict "folder" system.

I really like this concept base. Understand ones hair! I have come across some good technical info about hair as I have read many things on here, but it would be great to have a one stop shop so to speak.

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Well, from the dyeing point of view, you could have a category for dye - multiple all over applications and dye - single all over application followed by roots only from then on.

[trolleypup]

I'll add another dimension or two to the project: splits and damage suitable for S&D only; evaluating splits and damage in fairytaled or terminal length hair...

[LauraLongLocks]

Keep the ideas coming. I think this brainstorming session is a really great launchpad.

The idea of understanding one's hair is a really good approach. I like that.

Sarah, with dye damage, what does it actually do to the hair that can be seen without a microscope? I'm completely unfamiliar with this.

Trolleypup, if you are pointing out that fairytaled or terminal length hair does not equal damage, of course. That is true. But how would this information relate to damage? I guess I'm not seeing the relationship. And when you say splits and damage suitable for S&D only, do you mean S&D as opposed to a full trim or chop?

[Sarahlabyrinth]

I think it damages the cuticle, affects the way the hair retains moisture. Dyed hair can be dry and brittle and the more you dye the worse the damage can be.
Not that I'm any expert on it.

[LauraLongLocks]

Brittle, meaning it would break off, maybe with warning splits, maybe without? I wonder if there is a way to determine the severity of the brittleness. How easily it breaks, for instance? I'm going to bed now, but will be dreaming about brittle hair (just hopefully it's not a nightmare where all my own hair breaks off, lol).

[trolleypup]

Trolleypup, if you are pointing out that fairytaled or terminal length hair does not equal damage, of course. That is true. But how would this information relate to damage? I guess I'm not seeing the relationship. And when you say splits and damage suitable for S&D only, do you mean S&D as opposed to a full trim or chop?
Accumulated damage from years of wear and tear, and what one is willing to put up with.

For tairytaled or terminal hair, splits and dots occur throughout the length of the hair, so trims are unuseful as a method of removing damage. FWIW, my longest two hairs are in good condition, but the next few have visible damage...probably 50% of my last couple inches have some kind of damage, but when I move away from hairs that are much younger than 8 years, the percentage drops vastly.

[Panth]

Accumulated damage from years of wear and tear, and what one is willing to put up with.

This is kinda what I was alluding to - there can be no one system, because there is no carbon-copy person to apply it to.

Some people are incredibly concerned about a particular sort of aesthetics and will not tolerate one visible split (or, indeed, often fairytale ends of any sort). Others are perfectly happy to have 100% of their ends split, provided it's not making their lives difficult via tangles.

Also, nearly 100% splits on the very ends of knee or ankle length hair is a very, very different thing to nearly 100% splits on shoulder/collarbone-length hair. The former is not that unexpected, particularly on fine or otherwise easily damaged hair. It is almost certainly not a symptom of poor haircare or, indeed, any sort of avoidable damage.

[Phexlyn]

Also, nearly 100% splits on the very ends of knee or ankle length hair is a very, very different thing to nearly 100% splits on shoulder/collarbone-length hair. The former is not that unexpected, particularly on fine or otherwise easily damaged hair. It is almost certainly not a symptom of poor haircare or, indeed, any sort of avoidable damage.
I agree. "Damage" can be a very relative category in these cases!

[ChrissieM]

Maybe a poll would be helpful; people could say what kind of damage they think they have and explain in the thread if they feel it is mild, moderate, whatever. You might get more input on damage types and how people perceive their damage.

Personally I have BCL hair that is starting to taper and fairytail a bit. Someone might look at it from afar and think "oh, thin ends, must be damaged" when in reality I have very few splits and no other issues. The taper is just because I haven't trimmed since March 2013 and I had a postpartum shed in that time as well that is starting to fill back in. I'm sure some people might think my hair is damaged, but I don't feel that way so that is more important than a rating.

[LauraLongLocks]

Accumulated damage from years of wear and tear, and what one is willing to put up with.
Thank you for clarifying.


This is kinda what I was alluding to - there can be no one system, because there is no carbon-copy person to apply it to.

Some people are incredibly concerned about a particular sort of aesthetics and will not tolerate one visible split (or, indeed, often fairytale ends of any sort). Others are perfectly happy to have 100% of their ends split, provided it's not making their lives difficult via tangles.

Also, nearly 100% splits on the very ends of knee or ankle length hair is a very, very different thing to nearly 100% splits on shoulder/collarbone-length hair. The former is not that unexpected, particularly on fine or otherwise easily damaged hair. It is almost certainly not a symptom of poor haircare or, indeed, any sort of avoidable damage.

This is why I believe the damage rating should be independent of the advice given. I only put my goofy advice in the OP to lend some understanding of what I am trying to accomplish, but I see that I confused people. For instance, if I had more than 1/3rd of my hair ending in splits, I would aggressively trim to get rid of them. That's not what every person would do, though. A lot of people would keep babying the ends and try to hang on to that hair as long as possible. So, the percent of splits is the same, but what to do with that information varies from person to person.


I agree. "Damage" can be a very relative category in these cases!

Precisely the reason I want to have a rating system. When someone posts that they have so much damage what exactly does that mean? Do they have heat, chemical, or wear and tear damage? What is the severity of the damage? Is it more than half their hair? Is it just in one area of their hair? Is the hair breaking off and splitting, or just breaking off, or is it not breaking off but just feels or looks like a different texture? Is it less shiny than the person wants? For each person, these are mostly subjective descriptions. My aim is to have some sort of way to know what exactly we're talking about in a post, and I think the catalog of questions is probably going to be the best way to do this. Identifying the problem is all I'm trying to do with this. I'm not trying to say what the advice should be to any given person, because it is so individual. I'm just trying to learn what the issue is in as clear a sense as possible.

I'm thinking that there is very little that can be quantifiable in this project, aside from splits. You can actually count the splits and the total number of hairs in a given section of hair and come up with a percentage. However, this is coming from someone who does not have experience with any other type of damage. So, those of you that have seen or experienced other forms of damage, please share ways to objectively quantify it. For instance, if you have chemical damaged hair, describe different severity levels of chemical damage. What does hair do when it is chemically damaged that the average person can see and feel without a microscope to aid in their observation? Another example, say heat damage. What does hair do when it is head damaged, and what do different levels of severity of damage look and feel like with heat damage?

[Panth]

This is why I believe the damage rating should be independent of the advice given. I only put my goofy advice in the OP to lend some understanding of what I am trying to accomplish, but I see that I confused people. For instance, if I had more than 1/3rd of my hair ending in splits, I would aggressively trim to get rid of them. That's not what every person would do, though. A lot of people would keep babying the ends and try to hang on to that hair as long as possible. So, the percent of splits is the same, but what to do with that information varies from person to person.

Yeeeees. However, I can imagine that a lot of people (particularly new members, who are the sort who most need and most use the hairtyping sort of articles and lots of advice - and, indeed, who are most likely to have accrued a lot of damage without realising that their haircare is the cause) are not going to think "oh, I've got 50% splits, but it's ok, I can do what I want" or "oh, I've got 7/10 of the points on a 10-point damage scale, but it's ok, I can do what I want". Quantifying it (even with a check list) makes it more scary but also makes it easier for people to compare their hair to someone who has the same "damage rating", when in reality their hair (never mind lifestyle and goals) may be quite different.

[LauraLongLocks]

Yeeeees. However, I can imagine that a lot of people (particularly new members, who are the sort who most need and most use the hairtyping sort of articles and lots of advice - and, indeed, who are most likely to have accrued a lot of damage without realising that their haircare is the cause) are not going to think "oh, I've got 50% splits, but it's ok, I can do what I want" or "oh, I've got 7/10 of the points on a 10-point damage scale, but it's ok, I can do what I want". Quantifying it (even with a check list) makes it more scary but also makes it easier for people to compare their hair to someone who has the same "damage rating", when in reality their hair (never mind lifestyle and goals) may be quite different.

In your examples, you are correct. Anyone can choose to do anything with their hair. Period. So all the damage rating would do is give some sort of objectivity of the severity that hair is damaged. No one can be responsible for what anyone else chooses to do, or not do, with their hair. They can take their damage rating of 7/10 and go get a perm and see if their hair falls out. It's their choice. Two people with identical damage ratings but different lifestyles and goals would have to put their thinking caps on and realize one of them is at ankle length virgin, and the other is at shoulder length bleached. No one can think for another person. That's not the intent.

[brickworld13]

Most of my hairs are split. I'm not sure why, but I usually only trim when they get grabby or if I've got scissors availble when I see a really big one sticking out of braid. I think what I'm trying to contribute is that even if all the hairs are split, it doesn't mean that they are unmanageable.

[Sharysa]

Would there be a separate section for those with wavy/curly/fragile hair who just have to deal with splits as a matter of course? My hair has kept a pretty constant rate of splits, but it's definitely not because I'm brushing my hair or heat-styling it. It's just damage-prone because the waves make it tangle a lot.

[lapushka]

Would there be a separate section for those with wavy/curly/fragile hair who just have to deal with splits as a matter of course? My hair has kept a pretty constant rate of splits, but it's definitely not because I'm brushing my hair or heat-styling it. It's just damage-prone because the waves make it tangle a lot.

That's odd, because I'm almost TBL and I have no splits or white dots (not boasting here). My hair's even blowdried every week, and still: no damage. I blame it on my washing & styling method actually.

[LauraLongLocks]

It is counter-intuitive to me to believe that texture automatically increases damage. However, I am a straight-y so I will open the question up to all the wavies and curlies.

[Rushli]

I have waves but am not damage prone.

[Marbid]

I really like this idea. But there are things that i would like to put out there..

1. I think it should indeed be questions.. For a person to judge for themselves, after all, they can see their own hair. We cant. Its a lot safer for the owner of the hair to judge their own hair health, than us. But we can provide a guideline..

2. I dont think we should put a numerical value on the questions.. Use a statement instead.. Just like it has been said.. A 10 damage point in knee length is very different from 10 at bra strap.. So at the ends of the questions for a given subject, use a statement to sumarize the results.. For example.. Split ends category.. Length : classic... Split ends : 40% reasonable.. Length arm pit : split ends 40% concerning... Use a ratio of length to split ends..

3. For things such as chemical damage.. Hair strand thickness and constitution is a variable. Some one with delicate hair may dye their hair just once at kill their hair. While some one with sturdy hair may dye their hair 4 times in one month before thenhair beggins to show damage... For example. Dye category : hair : fine.. Dyed once.. Category 3 damage.. Hair coarse : dyed 3 times: category 3 damage...

I believe we have the knowlede here to do this and recognize the issues of different hair types. We can make a questionaire that guesses damage based on hair type, length, fine or thin.. The newbie who read this will be able to judge for her/his self the damage they have accumulated. As well as realize how different hair types react to different damage. It might take some time. But its worth it i believe, to help other lear about their hair as well as describe their damage type to us when asking for help..

At the end of the questionaire we can say, post your stats in the main forum for some advice.. The questionaire should not give advice. It should just help a person judge for themselves how much damage they have. So we can offer advice as well with a better understandment of what it is they are dealing with...

Again, we here in lhc have enough knowledge collectively to know how to ask questions pertaining to what is common of each hair type and length...

[Sharysa]

It is counter-intuitive to me to believe that texture automatically increases damage. However, I am a straight-y so I will open the question up to all the wavies and curlies.

It's not a set-in-stone rule, but here's why waves/curls are often more prone to damage than straight hair:

-Since waves don't lie neatly together like in straight hair, they tend to tangle up or rub against each other, hence more tangling and more damage.
-Waves and curls tend to be more fragile at the bends because curls mean weak spots, which also means more damage.

[LauraLongLocks]

I really like this idea. But there are things that i would like to put out there..

1. I think it should indeed be questions.. For a person to judge for themselves, after all, they can see their own hair. We cant. Its a lot safer for the owner of the hair to judge their own hair health, than us. But we can provide a guideline..

2. I dont think we should put a numerical value on the questions.. Use a statement instead.. Just like it has been said.. A 10 damage point in knee length is very different from 10 at bra strap.. So at the ends of the questions for a given subject, use a statement to sumarize the results.. For example.. Split ends category.. Length : classic... Split ends : 40% reasonable.. Length arm pit : split ends 40% concerning... Use a ratio of length to split ends..

3. For things such as chemical damage.. Hair strand thickness and constitution is a variable. Some one with delicate hair may dye their hair just once at kill their hair. While some one with sturdy hair may dye their hair 4 times in one month before thenhair beggins to show damage... For example. Dye category : hair : fine.. Dyed once.. Category 3 damage.. Hair coarse : dyed 3 times: category 3 damage...

I believe we have the knowlede here to do this and recognize the issues of different hair types. We can make a questionaire that guesses damage based on hair type, length, fine or thin.. The newbie who read this will be able to judge for her/his self the damage they have accumulated. As well as realize how different hair types react to different damage. It might take some time. But its worth it i believe, to help other lear about their hair as well as describe their damage type to us when asking for help..

At the end of the questionaire we can say, post your stats in the main forum for some advice.. The questionaire should not give advice. It should just help a person judge for themselves how much damage they have. So we can offer advice as well with a better understandment of what it is they are dealing with...

Again, we here in lhc have enough knowledge collectively to know how to ask questions pertaining to what is common of each hair type and length...

THIS^^ I need to get to bed now, but tomorrow I will give more feedback.