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CostaRita
September 23rd, 2014, 01:14 PM
I've decided, at least for the time being, to add cones to my haircare routine.

Because some of them aren't water-soluble, can a low-poo be used regularly to remove them? If so, how often?

Also, if this helps, even while doing CG my hair was still on the frizzy side, so I decided to switch up my routine. I also live in a hard water area.

mamaherrera
September 23rd, 2014, 01:46 PM
what is the benefit of using cones?? I stopped too, due to NC site,

mamaherrera
September 23rd, 2014, 01:48 PM
BTW: Where in WI are you from ??I am from MaDison!

CostaRita
September 23rd, 2014, 01:50 PM
Well, cones are supposed to smooth the hair at make it shinier. I haven't used them in a few years, but some people swear by them....

I go to school in Beloit!

Panth
September 23rd, 2014, 02:07 PM
Benefits of 'cones: anti-static, pro-slip, patch-repair damage (reducing tangling, dullness, unpleasant damaged feeling).

You most definitely can do a number of variants. E.g. wash occasionally with sulphate-containing shampoo and with sulphate-free most of the time, wash regularly / all the time with heavily diluted sulphate-containing shampoo, wash with less damaging/irritating sulphates (e.g. SLES or ALES rather than SLS). You can also use cocoamidopropyl betaine-containing shampoos (a much less irritating/damaging non-sulphate cleanser that removes all 'cones just as well as sulphate-containing cleansers do).

Alternatively, you can use 'cones designed not to build up (amino-'cones, e.g. aminodimethicone - it repels itself, so will only stick to hair not to 'cone already on the hair, preventing build-up) or you can use water-soluble 'cones (PEG-'cones). Either of these will not cause build-up (or will cause it VERY slowly) when using any sort of cleanser.

There is a certain amount of personal adjustment needed, though. E.g. if using sulphate-based cleansers occasionally, how often to use them? If diluting them, by how much? If using any routine, how often to clarify (no more than monthly should be necessary on a good routine). These things will vary with your hair type, hair length, amount of damage, water type, daily routine (e.g. how much dirt you get in your hair, how dirty is your environment/air?), etc., etc., etc. The only way to work out these variables is with trial and error.

nikolette
September 23rd, 2014, 02:11 PM
Benefits of 'cones: anti-static, pro-slip, patch-repair damage (reducing tangling, dullness, unpleasant damaged feeling).

You most definitely can do a number of variants. E.g. wash occasionally with sulphate-containing shampoo and with sulphate-free most of the time, wash regularly / all the time with heavily diluted sulphate-containing shampoo, wash with less damaging/irritating sulphates (e.g. SLES or ALES rather than SLS). You can also use cocoamidopropyl betaine-containing shampoos (a much less irritating/damaging non-sulphate cleanser that removes all 'cones just as well as sulphate-containing cleansers do).

Alternatively, you can use 'cones designed not to build up (amino-'cones, e.g. aminodimethicone - it repels itself, so will only stick to hair not to 'cone already on the hair, preventing build-up) or you can use water-soluble 'cones (PEG-'cones). Either of these will not cause build-up (or will cause it VERY slowly) when using any sort of cleanser.

There is a certain amount of personal adjustment needed, though. E.g. if using sulphate-based cleansers occasionally, how often to use them? If diluting them, by how much? If using any routine, how often to clarify (no more than monthly should be necessary on a good routine). These things will vary with your hair type, hair length, amount of damage, water type, daily routine (e.g. how much dirt you get in your hair, how dirty is your environment/air?), etc., etc., etc. The only way to work out these variables is with trial and error.

Thank you Panth!

CostaRita
September 23rd, 2014, 02:22 PM
Well said!

spidermom
September 23rd, 2014, 03:27 PM
Personally, I like cones. I think they help to hold moisture in my hair as well as add shine and slip. I use a clarifying shampoo about once every 2 months or so, otherwise a no-sulfate formula diluted in water, used at the scalp only. My conditioner does not contain cones, but I use a coney serum about every other time that I wash (the effect lasts that long) unless I'm on vacation in the sun, the sea, and the pool. Then I generously use cones every day, then braid my hair to protect it. I used to use oil instead, but last year my oil went rancid so I used cones (CHI Silk Infusion), and it worked much-much better.

CostaRita
September 24th, 2014, 02:49 PM
I know that this answer will vary, but how often should one use low-poos with cocoamidopropyl-betaine?

Panth
September 24th, 2014, 03:02 PM
I know that this answer will vary, but how often should one use low-poos with cocoamidopropyl-betaine?

I use a sulphate-free, cocoamidopropyl betaine-based shampoo every wash (about twice a week for me). I clarify maybe ... every few months? And that's mostly for chelating (I have hard water and a dual clarifying+chelating shampoo) rather than clarifying purposes.

I use 'cones every wash too (conditioner, in large amounts), but no leave-ins at all (no oil, no serum, etc.).

TheHowlingWolf
September 24th, 2014, 03:22 PM
I was thinking about adding cones back into my routine as well, due to frizziness & tangling. I was thinking about using shampoo/conditioner and then using a leave in with a cone or two. Maybe from Aveda? Idk yet though because I remember cones used to make my hair feel dry/suffocated. Also, I'm concerned that it will not allow the coconut oil I apply before every wash to properly condition my hair?

CostaRita
September 24th, 2014, 09:11 PM
^ Cool. I do wash most nights, so my routine might have to be different in terms of how often I use low-poo.

Last night I did chelate for the first time. My hair felt dry but as soon as I put conditioner in, my hair felt fine.

Chiaroscuro
September 24th, 2014, 09:32 PM
Thank you Panth; really good info.

teela1978
September 24th, 2014, 09:34 PM
When I was CO washing I found that I could use cones occasionally and they'd not build up. If you're not using them daily, even a no-poo routine will eventually get the cones off. If you use them daily you could end up with some heavy buildup, if you're using them every 5th wash or so you'll be fine.

kitana97
September 25th, 2014, 05:05 AM
Panth - that was so informative. I've actually been wondering the same question as OP. I want to use cones because with hard water my hair is quite tangly. I didn't know that there were cones that didn't build up.

Since there are some knowledgeable ladies on this thread - can someone answer a question for me. Is clarifying every other month or so enough to remove any cones that may be on the hair? I want to continue using this coney serum (Kerastate elixir - my hairdresser gave it to me for free) because it makes my hair feel like magic, but I'm afraid of any repercussions such as my ends drying out from not being able to properly moisturize them.

Panth
September 25th, 2014, 01:26 PM
I was thinking about adding cones back into my routine as well, due to frizziness & tangling. I was thinking about using shampoo/conditioner and then using a leave in with a cone or two. Maybe from Aveda? Idk yet though because I remember cones used to make my hair feel dry/suffocated. Also, I'm concerned that it will not allow the coconut oil I apply before every wash to properly condition my hair?

The dry/suffocated feeling could have been due to 'cones, or perhaps some other aspect of your routine (either on its own or not working nicely with the 'cones). It may also depend on the type of 'cone use, the formulation/product type it's in and how/how often you use it. I'd not write them off completely, but perhaps try a different product to what you used to use.

Many people quite successfully use 'cones and coconut oil (not applied together, of course, but as part of a single routine). The idea that 'cones completely block the hair from absorbing anything (either moisture or oils) is a myth. Cones don't create an absolutely impermeable barrier. They are not lacquer!


Last night I did chelate for the first time. My hair felt dry but as soon as I put conditioner in, my hair felt fine.

Yeah, chelating (like clarifying) will often make the hair feel quite dry as it is a stripping process. However, it shouldn't be anything that stays bad after a wash or two with conditioning agents.


Since there are some knowledgeable ladies on this thread - can someone answer a question for me. Is clarifying every other month or so enough to remove any cones that may be on the hair? I want to continue using this coney serum (Kerastate elixir - my hairdresser gave it to me for free) because it makes my hair feel like magic, but I'm afraid of any repercussions such as my ends drying out from not being able to properly moisturize them.

The short answer is that YMMV. It depends on your routine - namely, how many products you use that contain 'cones, what those products are, what exact 'cones are in them, how often you use those products, what else you use, what sort of cleansers you use, how hard your water is, how damaged your hair is, etc.

Personally, I only clarify when I feel I need it (namely, when my hair starts suddenly and without reason acting: dull, tangly (esp. ends), unmanageable, lank, etc.). If I had to clarify more than once a month I'd personally re-think my routine. I think more than once a month is a bit excessive and risks doing more harm than good. (That said, I washed twice a week with the oil shampoo method (not recommended) using a clarifying shampoo as my shampoo part ... I did that for nearly a year and had very little apparent damage, despite having fine, super-long, easily damaged hair. So, whilst being careful is probably best, I think it's likely quite difficult to cause major, irreversible damage just by clarifying too much.)

TheHowlingWolf
September 27th, 2014, 04:18 PM
I was thinking about using more natural (cone free) shampoo/conditioner (I'm not sure which ones yet) & then a leave in/styling product.
I was interested in a product from Aveda that I remember them using on me when I got my hair cut over a year 1/2 ago. I remember it smelling SOOOO good! It says it's suppose to help straighten hair, but I'm not interested in that. I just want smoother, less tangled hair that smells good.
Here are the ingredients they sent me. Does it look okay or do you think it will build up?


SMOOTH INFUSION GLOSSING STRAIGHTENER

Ingredients: Water\Aqua\Eau [] Propanediol [] Dimethicone [] Phenyl Trimethicone [] Dimethiconol []

Hydroxypropylcellulose [] Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein PG-Propyl Silanetriol [] Aloe Barbadensis Leaf []

Hydroxypropyltrimonium Hydrolyzed Corn Starch [] PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil [] Sodium Magnesium

Silicate [] Hydroxypropyl Guar [] PVP [] Fragrance (Parfum) [] Limonene [] Geraniol [] Citral [] Linalool []

Citronellol [] Benzyl Benzoate [] Sodium Chloride [] Ethylhexylglycerin [] Dehydroacetic Acid [] Phenoxyethanol []

Benzoic Acid

ETA: I'm also kind of concerned about some of the chemicals in this product, but figure if I only apply it to the length of my hair 2-3x a week, it shouldn't be that bad? I'm just used to more organic products.

swearnsue
September 27th, 2014, 04:30 PM
I don't think there is such a thing as a best routine for hair care. When I think I'm getting it right, the seasons change or something and I have to change things again.

So, be flexible!

Panth
September 28th, 2014, 03:21 AM
I was thinking about using more natural (cone free) shampoo/conditioner (I'm not sure which ones yet) & then a leave in/styling product.
I was interested in a product from Aveda that I remember them using on me when I got my hair cut over a year 1/2 ago. I remember it smelling SOOOO good! It says it's suppose to help straighten hair, but I'm not interested in that. I just want smoother, less tangled hair that smells good.
Here are the ingredients they sent me. Does it look okay or do you think it will build up?


SMOOTH INFUSION GLOSSING STRAIGHTENER

Ingredients: Water\Aqua\Eau [] Propanediol [] Dimethicone [] Phenyl Trimethicone [] Dimethiconol []

Hydroxypropylcellulose [] Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein PG-Propyl Silanetriol [] Aloe Barbadensis Leaf []

Hydroxypropyltrimonium Hydrolyzed Corn Starch [] PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil [] Sodium Magnesium

Silicate [] Hydroxypropyl Guar [] PVP [] Fragrance (Parfum) [] Limonene [] Geraniol [] Citral [] Linalool []

Citronellol [] Benzyl Benzoate [] Sodium Chloride [] Ethylhexylglycerin [] Dehydroacetic Acid [] Phenoxyethanol []

Benzoic Acid

ETA: I'm also kind of concerned about some of the chemicals in this product, but figure if I only apply it to the length of my hair 2-3x a week, it shouldn't be that bad? I'm just used to more organic products.

It has dimethicone (and phenyl trimethicone and dimethiconol) in, which is a non-water soluble 'cone that is not formulated to prevent build-up. So, yes, eventually it will build-up. The real question is how quickly it will build up. It will be quicker if you wash with non-sulphate, non-cocoaminopropyl betaine shampoos/cleansers. It will be quicker if you apply more of it (either more per application or more applications per week/month). However, will it build up so quickly that it is not worth using? Only experimentation on your hair will find out, sorry!

The other bit to be aware of is the "hydrolysed wheat protein PG-propyl silanetriol". That's protein. Your hair may or may not like it.

Other than that you've got aloe (humectant) which may be a bad idea if you live in a very dry climate (it draws moisture from the more moist to the less moist, so if your air is very dry then it'll draw moisture out of your hair).

Everything after the Castor Oil is just fragrance, preservatives, pH-balancers (so, e.g. if some shower water gets in the bottle the pH won't change drastically), etc.

TheHowlingWolf
October 7th, 2014, 02:46 PM
What about this:
Cyclopentasiloxane, Coconut Alkanes, Dimethiconol, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Crambe Abyssinica Seed Oil, Coco-Caprylate/Caprate, Limnanthes Alba (Meadowfoam) Seed Oil, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter, Argania Spinosa Kernel Oil, Tocopherol, Parfum/Fragrance, Hordeum Distichon (Barley) Extract, Orbignya Speciosa Kernel Oil, Santalum Album (Sandalwood) Extract, Phellodendron Amurense Bark Extract, Astrocaryum Murumuru Seed Butter, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Citrus Limon (Lemon) Peel Oil, Citrus Aurantium Bergamia (Bergamot) Fruit Oil, Ribes Nigrum (Black Currant) Seed Oil, Jasminum Officinale (Jasmine) Oil, Citrullus Lanatus (Watermelon) Fruit Extract, Litchi Chinensis Fruit Extract, Leontopodium Alpinum Flower/Leaf Extract, TBHQ, Limonene, Hexyl Cinnamal, Linalool, Citral

I believe that Cyclopentasiloxane is a cone? Is it a heavy coating cone? And do you think it would affect the coconut oil I put on my hair?

Panth
October 8th, 2014, 01:11 AM
What about this:
Cyclopentasiloxane, Coconut Alkanes, Dimethiconol, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Crambe Abyssinica Seed Oil, Coco-Caprylate/Caprate, Limnanthes Alba (Meadowfoam) Seed Oil, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter, Argania Spinosa Kernel Oil, Tocopherol, Parfum/Fragrance, Hordeum Distichon (Barley) Extract, Orbignya Speciosa Kernel Oil, Santalum Album (Sandalwood) Extract, Phellodendron Amurense Bark Extract, Astrocaryum Murumuru Seed Butter, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Citrus Limon (Lemon) Peel Oil, Citrus Aurantium Bergamia (Bergamot) Fruit Oil, Ribes Nigrum (Black Currant) Seed Oil, Jasminum Officinale (Jasmine) Oil, Citrullus Lanatus (Watermelon) Fruit Extract, Litchi Chinensis Fruit Extract, Leontopodium Alpinum Flower/Leaf Extract, TBHQ, Limonene, Hexyl Cinnamal, Linalool, Citral

I believe that Cyclopentasiloxane is a cone? Is it a heavy coating cone? And do you think it would affect the coconut oil I put on my hair?

Again, I'm by no means an ingredients nut, so take this with a pinch of salt. But... you've got dimethiconol again, which I think is a non-water-soluble, regular (i.e. coating) 'cone. It's fairly high up the list, so is likely the major 'cone.

I don't know about cyclopentasiloxane.

I'd be a bit wary of that one because of the enormous list of herbal extracts. Some herbal extracts can cause odd effects, e.g. waxy build-ups.

In general, some people can use coconut oil with even heavy, coating 'cones like dimethicone. Others can't. I suspect it depends very much on hair type but even more on routine. If you're aiming for your coconut oil to penetrate the hair shaft (as it needs to, to give maximal benefit) then a fairly long pre-treatment on dry hair is a good idea. You could then use 'cones in/after your wash (or "sealing", non-penetrative oils post-wash), perhaps?

TheHowlingWolf
October 8th, 2014, 03:08 PM
Thanks so much for all the info/help. I didn't know dimethiconol was a cone before this. Maybe I'll just continue to stay away from cones. & I also didn't know erbal extracts could cause waxy build ups either.

Panth
October 9th, 2014, 01:11 AM
Thanks so much for all the info/help. I didn't know dimethiconol was a cone before this.

I'm pretty sure that it's a derivative of dimethicone. However, you may want to double-check that.

IMO, if I was going to look for a conditioner I'd first look for the type of conditioner I wanted (e.g. for CO or S&C or CWC etc., light or heavy?, with protein?, with ceramides?, etc.) and then within that selection, look at what 'cones each has and chose something that has water-soluble/non-building-up 'cones or, if I found a super product that my hair liked but that contained regular 'cones, chose a shampoo to match the conditioner (e.g. with cocoamidopropyl betaine or sulphates in, if you're using something with regular 'cones). If you have "natural" as your first criteria, you're going to get a lot of stuff that's full of dubious herbal extracts and a lot of stuff that isn't formulated to do what you want it to.