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grinlord
September 19th, 2014, 06:06 AM
Thanks to joining this forum recently, I have already changed my hairwashing routine to WCC (and using far less shampoo). I also detangle by hand or with a wide comb, and tried to not brush, but that didn't work.

Here's my hair before and after brushing:
http://s27.postimg.org/rcyjk0fzj/after_brushing.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/rcyjk0fzj/) http://s27.postimg.org/kns03zunj/before_brushing.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/kns03zunj/)

Then I did a bun, which looks quite neat:
http://s10.postimg.org/7dzkhymud/bun1.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/7dzkhymud/) http://s10.postimg.org/lj5djrvvp/bun2.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/lj5djrvvp/)

And a loose plait. Very happy with my natural colours BTW!
http://s27.postimg.org/58odn4ru7/plait.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/58odn4ru7/)

After letting that down, I had this mess:
http://s3.postimg.org/m736i3nb3/down1.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/m736i3nb3/) http://s3.postimg.org/5i1qm6qpr/down2.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/5i1qm6qpr/)

I already use Redken Curvaceous Shampoo and Conditioner which is sulphate and silicone free.
So is this just my natural hair texture, or can I do something about this to reduce frizz and tidiness?

grinlord
September 19th, 2014, 06:09 AM
Can I edit my post? The before and after brushing are the wrong way around, and I wanted to add that I only wash my hair every 4-5 days, and have done since I first started growing it long.

sarathar
September 19th, 2014, 06:25 AM
What do you eat? Do you take good care of your body aswell?

grinlord
September 19th, 2014, 06:56 AM
What do you eat? Do you take good care of your body aswell?

A wide mixture of everything! I hate fast food, never have takeaways at home, and rarely go out for dinner. I eat fruit and veg every day. My only diet criticisms are that I love meat, and a few too many pastry based lunch snacks, although I make sandwiches half of the time. I cook most of my meals fresh, with the occasional tinned soup, pie or pizza.

I like to walk and cycle but don't do it every day.

lapushka
September 19th, 2014, 07:00 AM
Try not to brush it when dry. Comb/brush it in the shower, when there's lots of conditioner in it, and leave it alone afterwards. That's what you're going to have to do anyway when you wish to post a hairtyping picture.

Kina
September 19th, 2014, 07:03 AM
Lovely color. Your hair looks dry, though, do you oil? I use almond oil, just a drop or 2 (more or less depending on your thickness) just from the ears down. Oil helps keep the frizz in check for me.

grinlord
September 19th, 2014, 07:06 AM
Try not to brush it when dry. Comb/brush it in the shower, when there's lots of conditioner in it, and leave it alone afterwards. That's what you're going to have to do anyway when you wish to post a hairtyping picture.

I did try! That's what the before photo shows - a complete mess. (the before is actually the second photo as they swapped around)


Lovely color. Your hair looks dry, though, do you oil? I use almond oil, just a drop or 2 (more or less depending on your thickness) just from the ears down. Oil helps keep the frizz in check for me.

I think this is a good idea that I must look into. I would like to hear from someone who has similar hair to me.

GetMeToWaist
September 19th, 2014, 07:18 AM
You look like a perfect candidate for CO washing. Also you might wanna check if your shampoo has sulfates, they can make hair dry. I would also suggest using leave ins, coconut oil, damp bunning and not washing everyday.

Wosie
September 19th, 2014, 07:19 AM
I have a similar hair type as yours and I oil my hair daily as it's pretty dry too (I don't use much, though, just a drop or two). How often do you wash your hair?

Kina
September 19th, 2014, 07:23 AM
I did try! That's what the before photo shows - a complete mess. (the before is actually the second photo as they swapped around)



I think this is a good idea that I must look into. I would like to hear from someone who has similar hair to me.

i think you might be surprised at just how wavy your hair will be when moisturized. I don't have pics from that time, but my hair stood out from my head in an enormous triangle, with very little wave. I washed and conditioned daily at the time and brushed.

I eventually permed my hair, because I had curls when wet and frizz when dry and wanted to keep the curls. I started caring for my permed hair in a modified Curly Girl regime, perm grew out, my hair stayed curly. Totally different texture with care appropriate for my hair type.

Lapushka suggested earlier that you do a hair typing shot, it would give the members of the forum an opportunity to see what your natural texture is like and give better suggestions more tailored to it.

Welcome to the forum :)

grinlord
September 19th, 2014, 07:23 AM
Sorry GetMeToWaist and Wosie, you will see that I've already answered everything you've asked me! Please read my first and second posts of this thread!

YGDW
September 19th, 2014, 07:35 AM
I second the co-washing. You might have more curly hair than you think. Perhaps curly girl (such a sexist name!) could be something for you as well.

Cowgirl16
September 19th, 2014, 07:57 AM
My hair is pretty coarse, it needs moisture AND cones. Some hairtypes do better with some slip. I used to wash my hair daily until my hair was waist length, I have always used cones.

I recommend washing a little more frequently and adding a good coney conditioner. Deep condition once a week with something like SMT. No more brushing! Wide tooth comb or tangle teaser only.

My ends get horribly dry on about day 4 so I condition my ends mid week.

Everyone's hair is different. Fine hair gets weighed down easily so hence no cones works best. Coarse hair needs moisture and taming.

My hair is at my calves, this is just what has worked for me and helped get my hair to this length.

Madora
September 19th, 2014, 08:01 AM
Have you tried mineral oil to aid with moisturizing? You only need a drop or two, applied to your hands, not right out of the bottle. It is very lightweight, leaves no after scent, provides great slip and helps tame the frizzies. And it is dead cheap! It also washes out in your next shampoo.

Best applied to hair that has been clarified first, but you can also put it on damp (not wringing wet) hair.

Madora
September 19th, 2014, 08:06 AM
Personally speaking, since hair is weakest when it is wet, I would not recommend brushing it when it is wet...or slathered in conditioner. You want to treat it gently at those times. Combing it gently when it is wet with a wide tooth comb is fine. For the sake of your hair, do it slowly, from the ends up to the roots, in small sections.

schnibbles
September 19th, 2014, 08:18 AM
I think maybe we have a similar hairtype. I WCC also but I dilute my 'poo. I have an 8 oz plastic squeeze bottle that I put a quarter-size blob of shampoo in and fill about 3/4 full with water. Diluting the shampoo has been amazing, now I can get it to my roots much easier and the 'poo distributes itself so much better through my hair. I feel like straight shampoo is just too harsh, even sulphate free ... When hair is drying I oil my ends with Nightblooming Triple Moon oil (https://www.etsy.com/listing/101588405/triple-moon-hair-anointing-oil-12oz?ref=shop_home_active_2) and then a thin layer of Nightblooming Freya Hair Salve (https://www.etsy.com/listing/102816387/freyas-hair-salve-leave-in-conditioner?ref=shop_home_feat_1). I also use the Freya's salve throughout the rest of the week as needed.
I pre-poo the night before a wash (I wash in the a.m. 2 times a week) with a little bit of coconut oil on my length and sleep with a top-knot.
Do you have hard water? Minerals can interfere with your moisture balance..

lapushka
September 19th, 2014, 08:21 AM
Personally speaking, since hair is weakest when it is wet, I would not recommend brushing it when it is wet...or slathered in conditioner. You want to treat it gently at those times. Combing it gently when it is wet with a wide tooth comb is fine. For the sake of your hair, do it slowly, from the ends up to the roots, in small sections.

It is a necessity for those with waves and curls to brush and comb when wet with conditioner. It is well-known by now, Madora. :) :flower:

GetMeToWaist
September 19th, 2014, 08:26 AM
Sorry GetMeToWaist and Wosie, you will see that I've already answered everything you've asked me! Please read my first and second posts of this thread!

Whoops sorry! You didn't say anything about CO washing though ;) i would really suggest it for your hairtype.

GetMeToWaist
September 19th, 2014, 08:27 AM
It is a necessity for those with waves and curls to brush and comb when wet with conditioner. It is well-known by now, Madora. :) :flower:

Hmm I wouldn't say wet brushing is a necessity. A lot of wavies do well with dry BBB brushing, everyday combing and finger combing in the shower. :)

spidermom
September 19th, 2014, 08:32 AM
From the pictures, it looks like your hair is curly but you're combing/brushing out the curl.

I agree with other posters that your hair looks dry and would probably benefit from a moisture treatment. I like Joico KPak, which gives hair both protein and moisture. I also like Regis Designline Hydrating Balm. Some people like to make their own mixtures. A popular one is SMT, which is 2 parts conditioner, 1 part aloe vera gel (NOT the kind you use for sunburn which is usually green and contains lidocaine), and 1 part honey; example - 1/2 cup conditioner, 1/4 cup aloe vera gel, 1/4 cup honey. Whip this all together and apply generously to length, cover with a shower cap, and leave for at least 1/2 hour, then rinse out. Fruit of the Earth makes an aloe vera gel you could use.

If you've used the same products for a long time without clarifying your hair, there may be a lot of buildup on your hair. Buy a clarifying shampoo (it will say "clarifying" on the bottle) and wash your hair from scalp to tips.

I think a good strategy at this point would be to do a clarifying wash then a moisture treatment. Comb through your hair when you rinse out the moisture treatment, then don't touch it again until it's dry. Post a picture.

Madora
September 19th, 2014, 08:42 AM
It is a necessity for those with waves and curls to brush and comb when wet with conditioner. It is well-known by now, Madora. :) :flower:

[COLOR="#0000FF"]Not for this slightly wavy, Lapushka!:) I'd sooner chop off my pinkie finger than let a brush..of any sort, near my hair when it was wet. Dr. Michael stated, very emphatically in his book..in capital letters no less, never to brush the hair when it is wet.


Personally speaking, it would be sensible to be cautious in applying a brush to hair when it is wet, because of curly hair's fragility. A comb would be fine, because a comb has less impact on the curly structure than brush with a lot of bristles (providing, of course, that the comb is used gently.)

jacqueline101
September 19th, 2014, 08:50 AM
I'm not a wavy first off. I'd use a leave in conditioner then apply a serum over that. I'd see what that does to help your hair.

lapushka
September 19th, 2014, 08:54 AM
Personally speaking, it would be sensible to be cautious in applying a brush to hair when it is wet, because of curly hair's fragility. A comb would be fine, because a comb has less impact on the curly structure than brush with a lot of bristles (providing, of course, that the comb is used gently.)

I agree with you on rather using a comb than a brush. :)

Wosie
September 19th, 2014, 09:07 AM
Oh, I thought the first two pictures were taken after a shower, with the wavier one being a hair typing picture (not having touched it at all after having being washed).

Did you touch the hair at all after it had been washed? If you did touch/manipulate it in any way I also think you're much wavier than you think. I've seen several pictures of brushed out very wavy/curly hair, and they often look similar to yours.

Also, sorry about missing the second post, I read through your first post several times to see whether you'd said how often you're washing your hair, but I didn't notice the second one. x)

spidermom
September 19th, 2014, 10:09 AM
Just thought of something else that I didn't see mentioned. After washing your hair, do you rub a towel over your head to start the drying process? If so, stop. Rubbing roughs up the cuticle. It's all right to wrap your hair/head in a towel, but never-ever rub. I like to use a flannel pillowcase to wrap my hair/head in after washing because it's soft and closed at the bottom. I just drop my hair inside, then twist until the opening around my face is tight enough to keep it in place for awhile.

I also find it helpful to condition while I'm bent forward, hair hanging in front of me, because I can condition all of my top-most layer of hair without getting any conditioner on my scalp. My hair gets too oily too fast to have conditioner on my scalp.

ladonna
September 19th, 2014, 10:27 AM
I think we are pretty close to being hair twins. My avatar is my dry damaged hair before I joined lhc.
I use a sulfate free shampoo 2x a week. Then cheap white rain condish, my hair is very heavy when wet so since this condish is very lightweight it rinses easy.
I wrap my hair in a towel for about 20 mins
Then I split my hair in half and add a pump or two of Shea moisture restorative conditioner
Then maybe a quarter tsp of coconut oil to each half of the hair.
Then finger comb a bit and bun
Then everyday I add about 1/8 of a tsp of coconut oil from the ears down.
I would great advise you to keep your hair bun as much as possible

jeanniet
September 19th, 2014, 10:29 AM
Curly hair is much more fragile when it's dry, as opposed to when it's wet and slippery with conditioner. With all due respect to Dr. Michael, he didn't know much about curly hair. A lot of curly hair responds very well to brushing wet. I have 100% better hair, with no tangles or breakage, since switching to brushing wet as compared to either combing or finger combing. It's so much easier, too.

In any case, from the pictures I think you're at least wavier than you think. That dry frizziness looks like brushed out waves/curls to me. When you wash it again, try slathering in conditioner and combing through that way, then either just lightly rinse out the conditioner, or rinse it all out and add some back in as leave in (with your hair, probably about a tablespoon's worth). Then bend over, and use a t-shirt to gently lift the ends of your hair up towards your head, and squeeze to absorb water. Just air dry after that, and don't comb or brush! It should settle into its normal pattern, and it won't tangle. If it's tangling now, it's because every time you comb or brush dry, you're disturbing the natural pattern.

I agree that your hair looks really dry, although part of that is brushing out the wave/curl. You could really benefit from CO washing/leave in. Probably oiling, too, but I'd still use the leave in. At this point, I really only oil on rare occasions. I just find it doesn't do as much as leave in.

grinlord
September 19th, 2014, 11:35 AM
Thank you so much to everyone for your replies. It's a bit overwhelming, but I'll try to absorb it all!

The "before" brushing pic was the morning after the evening that I washed. During washing, I used a wide comb with the conditioner, after washing I used the same wide with some serum, and then this morning, I de-tangled with fingers and the same wide comb.

Yes it does get tangled easily, especially at the ends.

I read years ago that you shouldn't rub a hair drying towel, so I don't! However, I'm just about to buy a micro-fibre turban towel to use instead of a normal towel.

I've seen coconut oil mentioned a few times now, so that's a good suggestion, easier than mixing up my own recipe.

I'm curious to see the results of a clarifying wash, but anxious about having terrible hair for several days!

Unfortunately I really can't cope with tying my hair up at night for soaking in pre-treatment, even a loose bun is extremely distracting.

Johannah
September 19th, 2014, 12:36 PM
Grinlord, what about heavy oiling at night with a braid? You could CO-wash it out (IMO this works better than shampoo because the conditioner soaks up the oil for a big part). Afterwards you can use a heavier conditioner as well. Guess that's a big moisture treatment, then.

meteor
September 19th, 2014, 12:58 PM
Grinlord, it looks like you could be a lot wavier/curlier than you think. Whenever there is frizz, it's very likely that the waves/curls are trying to form but you are disturbing them with your brush.
I think you are a great candidate for the "Curly Girl Method" by Lorraine Massey that involves CO-washing, combing only in shower when hair is soaked in conditioner, scrunching, etc... I'd recommend checking it out and trying some of the tips.
Also, maybe using only a cotton t-shirt or a micro-fiber towel or a flour sack to dry your hair can help. Avoiding static-producing materials and sleeping on silk satin pillow-cases is great for keeping frizz at bay. And occlusives like oils/waxes/silicones might help you, especially oils. Unfortunately, they can build up, so I recommend using them sparingly.

Have you hair-typed your hair yet? :) Try air-drying your hair without touching it to see if you are a lot wavier/curlier? The texture should drive the hair-care to some degree.
Good luck! And happy growing! :)

spidermom
September 19th, 2014, 12:59 PM
Do a moisturizing treatment instead of regular conditioning after a clarifying wash. Your hair won't be awful if you do this, I guarantee.

Every once in awhile I'll do a clarifying wash but no conditioning just to see what my "naked" hair is like. It's kind of cool to see that (wow - my hair is BIG), but in general I wouldn't recommend clarifying without moisturizing.

grinlord
September 20th, 2014, 08:40 AM
Good news! Last night I looked at the various bottles I have of ignored hair products, and remembered that one of them is this leave-in conditioner:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/LOreal-Elvive-Damage-Leave-In-Conditioning/dp/B00694LO9M

It so happens that I was doing some car repairs that evening, so liberally sprayed in some of the conditioner, combed and massaged it in, then tied a bun, put a hat over the top, and went to repair the car. Initially when I let it down, it was just one oily, sticky spiral, but this morning I had better defined curls. I applied some more of the conditioner to the ends, tied it back and spent the day out. It's not sticky or greasy, and while it has a few knots, it is mostly easy to run my fingers through.

Now it looks like this:
http://s23.postimg.org/ghd6bygtj/leave_in_conditioner.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/ghd6bygtj/)

This was just a temporary experiment, but I will do as recommended

Spidermom, just to check, do I use the clarifying shampoo on it's own with no other treatment whilst under running water, and then moisturising afterwards, but before it's dry?

lazuliblue
September 20th, 2014, 09:36 AM
Your hair is a gorgeous colour!

As other people have suggested, coconut oil can work wonders. I get mine in Holland and Barrett, I think it's about 6 and it says on the tub that it can be used for skin and hair. I just put the tub in some warm water, let the oil melt and then put it on my hair, either overnight or for however long I can manage.

Recently I have done it once a week (for 3 weeks) and it has made SUCH a difference to my hair. I find that if I put conditioner on my oiled hair 20 minutes before I am going to wash it, the oil comes out much easier with just conditioner, so I don't need to use shampoo.

spidermom
September 20th, 2014, 09:47 AM
Use the clarifying shampoo exactly like you would use your regular shampoo. Clarifying only needs to be done once every month or two. When my hair starts getting unusually tangled or looks dull and limp, I know it's time to clarify.