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tmolly
September 3rd, 2014, 10:11 AM
Hello! I'm new here and I'm loving the great tips and advice I'm collecting while searching the boards here. As I try to work with my hair type, I'm realizing that I may not understand what "frizzies" actually refers to. My AP/BSL hair is 2a/1c, mostly F-M. But there are hairs all around my crown that are rough and kinky. The best way I can describe them, and please pardon my crass analogy, is like a pubic hair texture. 😳 They don't have a gentle wave or spiral pattern, but more of a series of "U" shapes (does that make sense? hard to describe).

Since they have this definitive texture, are they really frizzies? What I hear described as frizzies usually sounds more like flyaway hairs that get kicked up from wind, humidity, or being handled a lot. I don't know what could "tame" my wiry crown hairs since their texture is the way it is. And most of my hair under this top layer of wiry fuzz is finer and much straighter, so I can't scrunch them together into more cohesive kinky waves (which would be lovely if all my hair could agree on one texture!).

Is there anything short of heat that can relax these course hairs without simultaneously weighing down the rest of my hair? Anyone else have "frizzies" like this? Thanks in advance for any insight! :)

Santi
September 3rd, 2014, 11:03 AM
Hi tmolly! Lorraine Massey says that "A frizz is a curl waiting to happen". Frizz is seeking moisture from the air, that it why it sticks up. You have to learn how to properly hydrate your hair. What I learned prior to joining LHC is that it's important to learn hair properties. Knowing your texture, porosity, density & elasticity will help you understand the needs of your hair. It is not uncommon to have different textures on your head & certainly not uncommon to not know your hair properties. I thought my hair was thick until I joined this site. It's been a long journey for me & I am still learning.

There was a time when my hair would frizz no matter what I did. It was an ugly frizz that I could not hide. With time my hair became healthier b/c I was mindful of the products I used & how I handled my hair. I can see it & feel it. My hair still frizzes but it's more of a curly halo. I don't think that will ever go away.

There's a website www.livecurlylivefree.com that does a good job of explaining what curlies should know. Click on curly hair basics. You may not be a true curly but it might help you to learn how to combat the frizz.

LipstickGirl
September 3rd, 2014, 11:08 AM
That's a great link Santi, thanks. I also am a 2a, and the kinks that form in some of my hairs are bizarre. Some of them are just at right angles.

Santi
September 3rd, 2014, 11:17 AM
You're welcome LipstickGirl:)

Madora
September 3rd, 2014, 11:35 AM
For the sake of your hair, tmolly, try and keep away from heat.

If that is not an option for you, be very careful when using heat and try and use some heat protectant product while doing so.

veryhairyfairy
September 4th, 2014, 07:05 AM
I have those very coarse, and not at all normal textured hairs, too, OP. They seem to be completely out of place on a head, yes! :lol:
(they aren't any kind of tightly curly texture -that would be amazing!- they are seriously mutated looking and completely abnormal)

I do pluck the very worst ones from my part, but I try to leave the less-obnoxious ones to do their own thing and eventually blend in. One thing that improved the amount of these on my head was to stop the damaging practices; heat styling, peroxide hair dye, harsh shampoo every wash, etc.

These are definitely different from frizz/flyaways, but I can get them to behave a bit better (if I feel like the effort-most times I don't) if I wet my hair with a spray bottle and smooth a bit of gel (ECOStyler) over the canopy. The key to getting a 'sticking straight up' hair to lay better is wetting the hair at the scalp, same with changing your part on dry hair.

ExpectoPatronum
September 4th, 2014, 07:41 AM
What are frizzies? They're annoying! That's what they are.

I agree that frizz "is a curl waiting to happen." My poofy frizz is reduced when I actually treat my hair the way it wants to be treated. But, I get bad halo frizz. If I don't treat my hair like it's curly (ie, just put some oil in it which is what I do when I plan on wearing lots of updos), then my halo frizz is gone, but my poofy frizz is out of this world. You can't win sometimes.

Santi
September 4th, 2014, 08:47 AM
What are frizzies? They're annoying! That's what they are.

I agree that frizz "is a curl waiting to happen." My poofy frizz is reduced when I actually treat my hair the way it wants to be treated. But, I get bad halo frizz. If I don't treat my hair like it's curly (ie, just put some oil in it which is what I do when I plan on wearing lots of updos), then my halo frizz is gone, but my poofy frizz is out of this world. You can't win sometimes.


ExpectoPatronum, so funny! They are annoying! My frizz gets worse when I touch it too much. I have to remind myself to lay off.

meteor
September 4th, 2014, 10:31 AM
Is there anything short of heat that can relax these course hairs without simultaneously weighing down the rest of my hair? Anyone else have "frizzies" like this? Thanks in advance for any insight! :)

Yes:
1) wet/damp-setting after hair washes: water breaks down hydrogen bonds and lets your hair reform in new position - you can do scarf-wrapping for straight hair, damp-braid/bun for waves, use rags, curl-formers, etc for shaping hair as it dries.

2) occlusives (oils, waxes, silicones..., but especially oils!): they will prevent moisture from entering and evaporating from hair too fast and this will keep hair from frizzing up too much. My favorite "sealing" oil for this is mineral oil, because it's a somewhat more effective occlusive than natural oils.

3) sleeping on silk/satin or other smooth materials: silk pillowcases, sleep caps or shirts and scarves will keep the hair cuticles from getting roughened and silk is less absorbent than cotton and many other materials, which will keep your hair more moisturized.

4) avoid static - avoid plastic combs when you are not in the shower. Wood and horn will not create as much static as plastic. Also, conditioning and oiling hair thoroughly (both rinse-out and leave-in products) should keep static at bay.

two_wheels
September 4th, 2014, 10:54 AM
I have these coarse hairs. They drove me crazy. I am still working it out but have made great progress.
I was going to write out my top tips, then noticed that meteor has written exactly what I wanted to say :lol: excellent stuff, meteor!
And as Madora says, heat styling is a definite no-no, at least for me.

meteor
September 4th, 2014, 11:20 AM
I do pluck the very worst ones from my part, but I try to leave the less-obnoxious ones to do their own thing and eventually blend in. One thing that improved the amount of these on my head was to stop the damaging practices; heat styling, peroxide hair dye, harsh shampoo every wash, etc.

New growth is actually often wiry-looking, for that reason, personally I wouldn't recommend plucking those short new hairs - maybe patting them down with water and/or gel would help? :)

You are so right about stopping damaging practices - this is good for many reasons, frizz included. Frizz is often either curls/waves brushed out and trying to clump back together OR symptom of damage. If you avoid the damage from peroxide/heat/harsh cleansers, your hair can maintain its structural proteins, oils, ceramides and 18-mea - keeping the integrity of the whole structure - this means that hair will be less porous/damaged, so it be less hydrophilic and will frizz up much less in high humidity.

One more point I forgot to mention is the haircut. It's surprising how important this is for frizz management, especially for curlies and wavies who need to respect the curl pattern during haircutting. Personally, I found that I had the worst frizz when I had layers and shorter hair. Layers and bangs are just more prone to frizzing up because of lighter weight of the layered sections. Growing out hair longer should solve some of the problem, because hair gets somewhat pulled down and straightened out by its own weight.

two_wheels
September 4th, 2014, 11:25 AM
Definitely, meteor - layers are a fuzzbomb disaster on me too. And plucking them out just leads to short hairs sticking up all over the place.

Interestingly, when I had a pixie, I couldn't find any of these hairs. I assumed they were only a part of pre-LHC hair, which had been mechanically abused though not heat treated much. They only become apparent after chin length on me. :confused:

meteor
September 4th, 2014, 12:00 PM
two_wheels, you are absolutely right! :D I had short pixie only once, so maybe not enough for me to judge, but I didn't have anything I could call "frizz" either - when everything is so short, it's hard to imagine some hairs sticking out from the whole look. For example, I never see any frizz at all on really short-haired men and women. But shoulder length or longer - frizz is the norm.
The real frizz problems begin with medium-length hair... but then, they seem to subside at waist or longer (depending on natural texture, of course). Or maybe, it stops looking like frizz and starts looking like volume/texture? :hmm:
For sure, every time I have a significant trim/cut, I notice more frizz! So I think gaining length and growing out layers really helps calm down stray hairs/flyaways/frizz.

Around APL was probably the toughest frizz time in my life. My hair is very similar in texture to yours! ;) If you have any frizz, I bet it will calm down a lot with more length! :D

two_wheels
September 4th, 2014, 12:36 PM
I can't tell you how happy I am to hear that it improves towards waist! Onwards and downwards ;)

veryhairyfairy
September 4th, 2014, 02:43 PM
New growth is actually often wiry-looking, for that reason, personally I wouldn't recommend plucking those short new hairs - maybe patting them down with water and/or gel would help? :)

You are so right about stopping damaging practices - this is good for many reasons, frizz included. Frizz is often either curls/waves brushed out and trying to clump back together OR symptom of damage. If you avoid the damage from peroxide/heat/harsh cleansers, your hair can maintain its structural proteins, oils, ceramides and 18-mea - keeping the integrity of the whole structure - this means that hair will be less porous/damaged, so it be less hydrophilic and will frizz up much less in high humidity.

One more point I forgot to mention is the haircut. It's surprising how important this is for frizz management, especially for curlies and wavies who need to respect the curl pattern during haircutting. Personally, I found that I had the worst frizz when I had layers and shorter hair. Layers and bangs are just more prone to frizzing up because of lighter weight of the layered sections. Growing out hair longer should solve some of the problem, because hair gets somewhat pulled down and straightened out by its own weight.

There are definitely some hairs that are just a little bit bent and thick, but tend to change over to a more normal texture after a few inches, but there are also some weak, wiry, crinkled hairs that never grow more than a few inches; those are the only ones I pluck. :)

And I love that advice about haircuts, I've had a lot less frizz since I chopped out my layers!

tmolly
September 5th, 2014, 10:10 AM
Thank you for all the great tips, ladies! And Santi, I will definitely check out that site you linked to, thanks!

Regarding heat styling, I very rarely do this. Grew up in a hippie household with no hair dryers/tools, so they still kind of freak me out and I avoid them! Only when my MIL is visiting, I sometimes make an effort to make my hair look a little more "polished" with a hair dryer. She doesn't understand how I can walk around with messy-looking hair. :shrug:

I have never dyed/glazed/relaxed my hair in my life, and usually wear it down. Also, I've never washed it more than 2-3 times a week (more out of laziness than concern for my hair though, lol). For the past year, my shampoo/conditioner has been Shea Moisture, as I'm trying to avoid harsh chemicals there too. It's sort of a Catch 22: My natural, air dried healthy hair LOOKS more damaged than salon-styled-and-blowdried hair. No fair! :-/

I've recently started using pure mineral oil on wet hair out of the shower, and I'm loving it so far. My hair seems to suck it right up and not look greasy, so I'll use a little more each time and see how much I can handle. I'm experimenting with different ways of air drying my hair (plopping overnight, damp bunning, rope braid), and haven't found the right method that will (1) enhance the waves I have and (2) actually get my hair dry. What works for you ladies?

Madora
September 5th, 2014, 10:16 AM
I've been using this method, which I developed myself, for more than 30 years:
Hair should be completely detangled and slightly damp before starting. The more water you can express from your strands, the faster the air drying will be.

Part your hair from nape to center of forehead so that it is in two sections. Band off one section with a scrunchie to keep it separate from the other section.

Take a pencil thin size sliver of hair in your hand.
Bring your hand up to your ear and then extend it all the way out (to the side)
Slowly let the strands drop to the floor

Take another pencil thin section and repeat steps 1-3

Repeat with the rest of the hair. Keep repeating the hair fanning motions until the hair is dry.

Once you notice that the hair is becoming drier, you can take larger portions of the hair, but use a wide tooth comb in place of your hand. Go slowly and gently when using the comb.

When hair is dry, band off the section with a scrunchie to keep it out of the way. Repeat the hair fanning procedure with hair in the other section.

When finished, you can leave hair as is, or apply your favorite oil, etc. and style as desired.

The technique was developed by me after years of having to wait forever for my very thick, long hair to dry (using the hair laying on a towel down the back approach). It took forever and I wanted a faster method.

Outside, my hair dries in 20 to 25 minutes. Indoors it takes about 45 minutes, using a portable electric heater (standing about 4 feet away).

The secret to drying your hair quickly is to thoroughly detangle it when you start, and to keep the air circulating through it as you fan the strands.

tmolly
September 5th, 2014, 09:57 PM
Madora, that drying method sounds really interesting. Just to clarify, you are picking up sections of hair and then just letting them fall back on their own, or are you shaking/fanning the strands too? And when you say it takes 45 minutes to dry your hair, does that mean you are sitting there picking up/dropping hair sections that whole time? I wonder if I'd have that dedication! Does all that handling of your wet hair affect the texture at all, making it more straight or wavy? Do you find that it helps minimize kinky frizz hairs? Sometimes, I've considered gently holding the kinky hairs straight while wet until they are dry, but never had the patience to try. Hmmm...

meteor
September 5th, 2014, 10:16 PM
Madora, that drying method sounds really interesting. Just to clarify, you are picking up sections of hair and then just letting them fall back on their own, or are you shaking/fanning the strands too? And when you say it takes 45 minutes to dry your hair, does that mean you are sitting there picking up/dropping hair sections that whole time? I wonder if I'd have that dedication! Does all that handling of your wet hair affect the texture at all, making it more straight or wavy? Do you find that it helps minimize kinky frizz hairs? Sometimes, I've considered gently holding the kinky hairs straight while wet until they are dry, but never had the patience to try. Hmmm...

I hope Madora will chime in, and I believe this is a good video for the fanning technique she described :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbgB6WhMl4Y

MNDaydreamer
September 20th, 2014, 10:33 PM
My initial reaction is that the fanning method would give me worse frizz. Should I go with my gut or give it a try? My hair takes forever to dry!

meteor
September 20th, 2014, 10:54 PM
It's sort of a Catch 22: My natural, air dried healthy hair LOOKS more damaged than salon-styled-and-blowdried hair. No fair! :-/
That's actually a very sad part of life. :( I think it's true for almost any hair: if you go to a professional hair stylist for a great blow-out with heat and silicones, it's very possible that it will look nicer than air-dried hair... but the damage would accumulate if you keep doing it.


My initial reaction is that the fanning method would give me worse frizz. Should I go with my gut or give it a try? My hair takes forever to dry!

For avoiding frizz, either skip the towel or use cotton t-shirts or even silk for soaking up the water. You can do the fanning technique until the hair feels almost dry and then style it. What I like to do is: 1) fan hair or just air-dry and then 2) set it in braids or anything else for damp-setting hair in the wave pattern I want. If I go to sleep in brains/buns (to create waves next morning) I always make it a point to sleep on silk to avoid frizz.
What you do to your hair and how you shape it as it is becoming completely dry will define the look to a large degree.