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milque
August 28th, 2014, 09:48 AM
Ever since discovering LHC about a year ago I made some changes to my hair care routine. I dropped sulphates and cones, started wearing my hair up a lot, incorporated a lot of oiling etc. For the most part I never really used a lot of heat except the very occasional blow dryer and straightening iron. And the last time I did anything chemical to my hair was 4 years ago, so it's all virgin. As a result my hair had been the healthiest it'd ever been.

Till about one month ago. Went to a salon for the first time in ages to get my hair done. Needless to say, my hair was treated very roughly and I am now dealing with a lot of damage! My ends are in a sorry, sorry state. They're dry, full off split ends and white dots, breaking off (some breakage happens even 3 inches up the hair shaft!), and tangly grabby & crunchy. I've done everything I can think of. I ditched the comb/brush and now only detangle gently with my fingers. For awhile I thought it was the hard water since I recently moved to London where the water is very hard. So I chelated and started incorporating distilled water final rinse (that has helped eliminate most of the tangles, grabbiness and crunchiness but the dryness and split ends remained). I SMT every week. I sleep on a silk pillowcase. Last month I chopped off 1.5 inches because of the damage, but that didn't help for long coz the splits and breakage came back in full force, if not worse!

I am stumped. I don't know what to do anymore. I would loathe to trim again, because I did a big one recently and to do another 1.5 inches (damage goes up to 3 inches) would break my heart. I am at almost hip and it took ages to get there.

Please please shed some light on my situation. I am desperate and lost. :(

FYI, my routine includes:
- wash every 4 days
- pre-wash coconut oiling
- diluted shampoo on scalp, then lots of condish whole head
- post-wash light avocado oil (used to use Argan oil - change of oil made no difference). sometimes a little bit of humectant leave in.
- SMT once a week
- clarify/chelate once every 3 weeks

Many thanks in advance!

Madora
August 28th, 2014, 10:02 AM
Milque...just way too much stuff going on your head!

Leave off the post-wash light avocado oil and the humectant leave in
SMT once a month

I'd leave off the pre-wash coconut oiling also. Clarify once a month!

Less is more!

lapushka
August 28th, 2014, 11:25 AM
Using stylers as an oil and a leave-in post-wash is *good* (see LOC method, it's in my signature). I would leave out the pre-wash oiling, though. It might just be too much.

hmmruka
August 28th, 2014, 11:27 AM
Is it possible the scissors used to cut your hair were dull? In my experience even if I don't cut all my damage out at once, cutting a true inch and half would still greatly improve my hair for quite awhile. My hair is about hip and I had a pretty big chop in March that reduced a lot of damage but not all and now I am starting to see new splits (tiny Y's at the ends) and white dots but I think that is because against my best judgement I let the lady use a razor. The only times I have had the kind of issues you are describing after a recent cut was when I had very severe chemical and mechanical damage that was through the length of my hair (coloring/bleaching back and forth between blonde and very dark every few months + blow dry and flat iron at least five days a week) or when my hair was literally being shredded by dull scissors or razors. Razor cuts are pretty damaging anyway but if the blade is dull or the razor is used on dry hair, the hair frays instantly. Same with dull scissors.

Johannah
August 28th, 2014, 11:30 AM
Maybe I didn't read your post right, but what happened in that salon, exactly? Did they use razors to cut it? Did they dye/bleach it? Where's the damage from?

stephy190
August 28th, 2014, 11:42 AM
Ever since discovering LHC about a year ago I made some changes to my hair care routine. I dropped sulphates and cones, started wearing my hair up a lot, incorporated a lot of oiling etc. For the most part I never really used a lot of heat except the very occasional blow dryer and straightening iron. And the last time I did anything chemical to my hair was 4 years ago, so it's all virgin. As a result my hair had been the healthiest it'd ever been.

Till about one month ago. Went to a salon for the first time in ages to get my hair done. Needless to say, my hair was treated very roughly and I am now dealing with a lot of damage! My ends are in a sorry, sorry state. They're dry, full off split ends and white dots, breaking off (some breakage happens even 3 inches up the hair shaft!), and tangly grabby & crunchy. I've done everything I can think of. I ditched the comb/brush and now only detangle gently with my fingers. For awhile I thought it was the hard water since I recently moved to London where the water is very hard. So I chelated and started incorporating distilled water final rinse (that has helped eliminate most of the tangles, grabbiness and crunchiness but the dryness and split ends remained). I SMT every week. I sleep on a silk pillowcase. Last month I chopped off 1.5 inches because of the damage, but that didn't help for long coz the splits and breakage came back in full force, if not worse!

I am stumped. I don't know what to do anymore. I would loathe to trim again, because I did a big one recently and to do another 1.5 inches (damage goes up to 3 inches) would break my heart. I am at almost hip and it took ages to get there.

Please please shed some light on my situation. I am desperate and lost. :(

FYI, my routine includes:
- wash every 4 days
- pre-wash coconut oiling
- diluted shampoo on scalp, then lots of condish whole head
- post-wash light avocado oil (used to use Argan oil - change of oil made no difference). sometimes a little bit of humectant leave in.
- SMT once a week
- clarify/chelate once every 3 weeks

Many thanks in advance!

Sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet and trim, cause damage will slow your growth.. You'd get that couple inches back in no time if your hair is at its healthiest too! I got a massive cut a week ago and I swear its got longer already! :D and maybe try bunning it a bit more often (if you don't already) to protect your ends and retain length :) xx

milque
August 28th, 2014, 12:26 PM
stephy190, I'm jealous your hair grows so fast!! :applause You're so lucky. My hair grows at a snail's pace though and every inch is precious to me. X)

Johannah, no razors or dye/bleach, just blow drying very roughly with no leave-in or protectant on, didn't even condition my hair after the shampooing, and with ball-tipped round brush that he ripped through my hair with a vengeance. I don't know, it was after that I started to notice the damage. I can't think of any other event that would result in damage :shrug

hmmruka, I cut witha pair of hair shears that I only use for hair. I can't tell if it's dull or not since it cuts fine (to me). How do you tell when scissors are dull? Sorry if that's a silly question.

lapushka and Madora, looking back, my routine does seem a bit much. X) I'll take out the pre wash oiling, clarify and SMT less. Don't think I have the courage to leave my ends bare without a light oil coating. shudder:


Thank you all for the responses! I've been feeling so despondent, but your replies cheered me up!! :blossom:

Panth
August 28th, 2014, 12:47 PM
I agree that it'd be easier to figure out what's happening if we knew exactly what happened at the salon. That said, here's some thoughts:

1) More is not more. I agree with Madora about your routine. In particular, a weekly SMT sounds excessive.

2) Clarifying - what do you use? Ditto for chelating.

3) No cones? Why? Does your hair actually not like them or are you just on the "no sulphates, no 'cones" bandwagon? I say this because 'cones are actually great for many, many people's hair. Also, you can do sulphate-free without having to do 'cone-free if you like. E.g. SLS-free shampoos based on cocoamidopropyl betaine will remove 'cones. Also, amino-cones and PEG-cones don't build up so can be used even with SLS-free shampoos that won't remove 'cones. (Being sulphate-free has a lot more basis in sense than being 'cone-free - sulphates are scientifically proven to aggrivate even non-eczema sufferers' skin, but the notion that 'cones "seal the hair and prevent moisture getting in" is ... rubbish.)

4) Straightening - it's going to bite you sooner or later. It's possible that now is that time - when the straightening damage has accumulated to the extent that it can no longer be hidden by products and you're stuck with the damage.

5) Did you trim using sharp scissors that have never been used for anything except hair? Did you cut the hairs at right-angles to the hair shaft? If not, you may have just caused the splits by cutting improperly with blunt scissors.

6) Coconut oil - if you're using SLS-free shampoo AND diluting it, it's possible you're not getting all the oil out, particularly if you're also doing a post-wash oiling too.

7) Random suggestion: does your shampoo/conditioner contain lots of protein? Some people's hair just doesn't tolerate that.

Panth
August 28th, 2014, 12:50 PM
How to tell if scissors are dull: find some shed hair and cut it. Does it leave a white dot on the cut end? If yes, they're dull.

You can also inspect the edge of the blade for dents/chips. You can also cut fabric with them (fabric won't hurt them) and if they are sharp they will often make a distinct "snick" sound as they cut and you definitely shouldn't feel any points of resistance as the scissors close.

Johannah
August 28th, 2014, 01:31 PM
TBH, I don't think your visit to the salon can cause this. Or at least, not on its own. They didn't treat your hair like they should, but the damage you describe is much if you compare to what they did. Like others said, dull scissors would explain a lot. But offf course I can be wrong.

Chromis
August 28th, 2014, 02:06 PM
TBH, I don't think your visit to the salon can cause this. Or at least, not on its own. They didn't treat your hair like they should, but the damage you describe is much if you compare to what they did. Like others said, dull scissors would explain a lot. But offf course I can be wrong.

Hmmm, I had a lot of damage before I found LHC and I didn't use any heat, bleaches, or dyes. My damage was from ponytails and ripping a brush through my hair, especially when wet. Hard brushing like that really does break a lot of hairs!

milque
August 28th, 2014, 02:43 PM
3) No cones? Why? Does your hair actually not like them or are you just on the "no sulphates, no 'cones" bandwagon? I say this because 'cones are actually great for many, many people's hair. Also, you can do sulphate-free without having to do 'cone-free if you like. E.g. SLS-free shampoos based on cocoamidopropyl betaine will remove 'cones. Also, amino-cones and PEG-cones don't build up so can be used even with SLS-free shampoos that won't remove 'cones. (Being sulphate-free has a lot more basis in sense than being 'cone-free - sulphates are scientifically proven to aggrivate even non-eczema sufferers' skin, but the notion that 'cones "seal the hair and prevent moisture getting in" is ... rubbish.)


I don't use cones coz I've always thought you'd have to use SLS in tandem, and my scalp freaks out at anything harsh hence why I dilute my shampoos. Thanks for your advice about cones that don't build up! I think I want to try going back to them!

Firefox7275
August 28th, 2014, 03:07 PM
I'm sorry you had such a traumatic experience (for you and your poor hair!).

I think you are overly focussing on oils and general softness (=/= health), and not enough on patch repairing. You absolutely need to trim off the splits and breakage with super sharp scissors, this is not salvageable. After that try a hydrolysed protein treatment, either a really hardcore one if you have experience and you know your hair can take it, or protein in a conditioner base if you do not.

Honestly SMTs are nice for the aesthetics of hair and perhaps for slip/ detangling, but I don't see how they can help badly damaged hair get stronger or more resilient. Hair is weakest in it's wet state, and leaving the cuticle swollen for long periods can further weaken it. I agree cut these down. Your penetrating oils are the exact opposite, they are reducing the amount of water hair can hold, so potentially reducing hygral fatigue (water damage).

You might use a little of your rinse out conditioner as a leave in on very wet hair, instead of only oils. This might be particularly useful if your conditioner contains proven ingredients such as protein, ceranides, 18-MEA or panthenol. This means extra conditioning without extra time wet, and less waste of 'active' ingredients.

Agree some silicones resist building up (amine functionalised, water soluble), also cocoamidopropyl betaine will shift any build up - this is much gentler than sulphates.

Madora
August 28th, 2014, 03:18 PM
stephy190, I'm jealous your hair grows so fast!! :applause You're so lucky. My hair grows at a snail's pace though and every inch is precious to me. X)

Johannah, no razors or dye/bleach, just blow drying very roughly with no leave-in or protectant on, didn't even condition my hair after the shampooing, and with ball-tipped round brush that he ripped through my hair with a vengeance. I don't know, it was after that I started to notice the damage. I can't think of any other event that would result in damage :shrug

hmmruka, I cut witha pair of hair shears that I only use for hair. I can't tell if it's dull or not since it cuts fine (to me). How do you tell when scissors are dull? Sorry if that's a silly question.

lapushka and Madora, looking back, my routine does seem a bit much. X) I'll take out the pre wash oiling, clarify and SMT less. Don't think I have the courage to leave my ends bare without a light oil coating. shudder:


Thank you all for the responses! I've been feeling so despondent, but your replies cheered me up!! :blossom:

Milque, you can use just a drop or 2 of mineral oil (baby oil) to protect your ends. However, you don't put it directly on your hair! Instead, find a small container (pill bottle cap) or a small plate. Put 2 drops of MO (not more!) on the plate. Take a baby swab, coat it in the oil, then swab your hands, fingers and palms with the oiled baby swab. Now, run your hands thru your hair, down to the ends (or just concentrate on the last 7 inches if you prefer). Keep running your hands through your hair until the oil sheen from your palms has almost disappeared.

MO is very lightweight, tames frizzes and adds moisture. Best done on hair that has been clarified first (because the residue barriers have been removed by clarifiying). You can use it on damp hair, if you like. Use it SPARINGLY!! Best of all, baby oil is dead cheap! A bottle will last for years! I use it for conditioner (I use 4 drops for my mop) and to help w/detangling. Good luck!

Sparklylady82
August 28th, 2014, 03:43 PM
Milque, you can use just a drop or 2 of mineral oil (baby oil) to protect your ends. However, you don't put it directly on your hair! Instead, find a small container (pill bottle cap) or a small plate. Put 2 drops of MO (not more!) on the plate. Take a baby swab, coat it in the oil, then swab your hands, fingers and palms with the oiled baby swab. Now, run your hands thru your hair, down to the ends (or just concentrate on the last 7 inches if you prefer). Keep running your hands through your hair until the oil sheen from your palms has almost disappeared.

MO is very lightweight, tames frizzes and adds moisture. Best done on hair that has been clarified first (because the residue barriers have been removed by clarifiying). You can use it on damp hair, if you like. Use it SPARINGLY!! Best of all, baby oil is dead cheap! A bottle will last for years! I use it for conditioner (I use 4 drops for my mop) and to help w/detangling. Good luck!

Do you use it while wet or dry? Very interesting! I've looked at the baby oil but i got so confused with all the different kinds...are you talking about the one in the pink and clear bottle?

milque
August 28th, 2014, 04:04 PM
Thank you all for your helpful replies!

Firefox7275, that got me thinking I haven't done a protein treatment in ages! My hair is coarse so I have to be really careful but I have a hydrolyzed protein condish that I love that makes my hair feel strong. Can't believe I forgot all about it!

Madora, thank you for such a detailed explanation! I'm sure there's a bottle of baby oil lying around somewhere. Gonna try that! Should I only apply it after a wash or can I use whenever?

Sparklylady82, I should think so. That one has only pure mineral oil, and maybe fragrance.

lapushka
August 28th, 2014, 04:43 PM
Do you use it while wet or dry? Very interesting! I've looked at the baby oil but i got so confused with all the different kinds...are you talking about the one in the pink and clear bottle?

I've got the "regular" Johnson&Johnson, fragranced oil. It's very easy. You just drop a drop or two in the palms of your hands, rub them together and go to town. :D

lilin
August 28th, 2014, 06:52 PM
I agree with the others about trying cones that build up less. Using cones without SLS sort of depends on how you're doing it (having extremely grabby hair, I personally have to abandon them if I'm not using SLS, but most people don't seem to have that problem as much as I do). But you are still using a type of shampoo which is probably strong enough to keep build-up minimal. I also think you could get away with clarifying much less. That's not easy on the hair. I've gotten away only clarifying once every few months even in places with the worst water in the US (the Southwest).

I also second considering if you need a protein treatment, and to cut back on the oiling and SMT. You've been focusing so much on oiling that it might be off-kilter. There's a test you can do to see if you need more protein, or more moisture. Soak a piece of hair in water for a bit, then take it out and stretch it between your fingers. Healthy hair will stretch a little bit, give resistance, and then return to its normal length when you release tension. Hair lacking protein will stretch out a lot and not completely snap back, or just stretch and stretch without giving back much resistance until it breaks. Hair lacking moisture will simply break almost right away, without stretching much at all.

I might also see what happens if you give up the humectants for a bit. Depending on the state of the hair, and how hydrated they are when applied, sometimes they can draw water out rather than in.

And also, I think it's likely your use of heat, however minimal, may have contributed as well, and the rough treatment at the salon was the straw that broke the camel's back. But I also sympathize -- I have hair is that is extremely easily damaged myself. One good session of abuse can definitely leave me with long-term problems.

I hope you find a solution!

Madora
August 28th, 2014, 08:57 PM
Milque and Sparklylady82, a little more about MO (I'm no expert, however!)

The baby oil (mineral oil) you want is one that contains ONLY the mineral oil and fragrance. Johnson and Johnson makes one..but be sure to read the label. J and J makes another baby oil that contains more ingredients, which you DON'T want. More ingredients in MO make it less effective. Yes, there's a pink cap on the J and J product.

How to use:

MO works best on hair that has been clarified first. As you know, clarifying removes all the buildup barriers on your hair, thus giving the MO a straight path to your strands.

It should be applied to damp (not wet, hair). By applied I mean via your hands, never straight out of the bottle.

Use it very SPARINGLY! Shoulder to middle back...2 drops. Waist, maybe 3. I use 4 drops.

You can use it on non-clarified DAMP hair. Again, use it sparingly.

As Lapushka mentioned, you apply the 2 drops to your hands (I coat mine all over with a MO-drenched baby swab), then run your hands through your hair until the oil sheen has vanished from your palms.

Very lightweight, leaves no after scent, helps tame frizzies and helps w/moisturizing. Washes out easily during your next shampoo.Best of all, it is dead cheap. A bottle will last you for years!

More about MO here: (former LHC member KTANI's informative blog: HairSense http://ktanihairsense.blogspot.com/2011/12/mineral-oil-and-hair-care-and-skin.html

MsPharaohMoan
August 28th, 2014, 09:37 PM
I have hair is that is extremely easily damaged myself. One good session of abuse can definitely leave me with long-term problems.

Sigh. Similar hair that I decided to stop brushing/combing for a week. Was glorious but went back to the comb rather aggressively, trying to tackle the waves into submission. Protein and s+d, sigh.

Kitten1030
August 28th, 2014, 09:58 PM
I had to go back to cones after being sulfate/cone free for almost 2 years. When I first went sulfate/cone free my hair was really happy then I noticed a lot of shedding going on but I forged through thinking it was just it's natural cycle, the change in routine, previous damage, whatever. Then my hair just was always tangly, dry, poufy, and grabby so I went back to cones and my hair is so much happier and the shedding is a lot less. I wish I had figured it out before I lost so much thickness. I still use sulfate free shampoo because I hendigo and I don't want it to fade and sulfates make me itchy. I have not had any issues with build up, I just rotate conditioners and clarify once in a while. The LOC method has been awesome too. My ends are actually supple, they used to be stiff and dry, but not split. I also cut back on oiling. I only do it once a week (when I'm being good, I have not been taking very good care of my hair lately) I hope you figure out what works for you. Good luck!

Inching Along
August 28th, 2014, 11:49 PM
I had to go back to cones after being sulfate/cone free for almost 2 years. When I first went sulfate/cone free my hair was really happy then I noticed a lot of shedding going on but I forged through thinking it was just it's natural cycle, the change in routine, previous damage, whatever. Then my hair just was always tangly, dry, poufy, and grabby so I went back to cones and my hair is so much happier and the shedding is a lot less. I wish I had figured it out before I lost so much thickness. I still use sulfate free shampoo because I hendigo and I don't want it to fade and sulfates make me itchy. I have not had any issues with build up, I just rotate conditioners and clarify once in a while. The LOC method has been awesome too. My ends are actually supple, they used to be stiff and dry, but not split. I also cut back on oiling. I only do it once a week (when I'm being good, I have not been taking very good care of my hair lately) I hope you figure out what works for you. Good luck!

Kitten1030, oh my goodness! that sounds like my hair! I am still experiencing some of what you describe: shedding, dry, poufy. I thought it had to be my thyroid condition, but maybe it's because I haven't used -cones in so many years! Thank you for sharing this! Do you still use relatively natural products? Can you share what sort of conditioners you have found that have -cones that don't build up? I also don't use sulfates in my shampoos. And Panth, if you have any conditioners you could recommend, I am all ears!

Thank you so much! I hope -cones can help my poor hair!

Inching Along
August 28th, 2014, 11:49 PM
Double post--sorry!

ErinLeigh
August 29th, 2014, 01:06 AM
What is your climate? If its dry the SMTs and humectants could be causing more dryness.

I would keep the pre wash oil to to help protect the delicate hair from hydral fatigue. Post wash...maybe cones for a while instead of oil to help keep the ends together until they grow out a bit more and are at a length you are ready to trim? (Personally I would trim again if they are that bad but I understand if you choose not to.) As much as I love oils...cones give me better slip which helps when my ends are fried feeling and tangly. Less friction for me is less damage. I am actually going to switch back to cones for a while because too much post wash oiling, I recently realized, can cause my hair to dry out long term. Strange as it responded so well at first.

I am sorry to hear your hair feels bad. I am sure it will get better. You seem to care for it well.

Panth
August 29th, 2014, 02:32 AM
Kitten1030, oh my goodness! that sounds like my hair! I am still experiencing some of what you describe: shedding, dry, poufy. I thought it had to be my thyroid condition, but maybe it's because I haven't used -cones in so many years! Thank you for sharing this! Do you still use relatively natural products? Can you share what sort of conditioners you have found that have -cones that don't build up? I also don't use sulfates in my shampoos. And Panth, if you have any conditioners you could recommend, I am all ears!

Thank you so much! I hope -cones can help my poor hair!

I use L'Oreal Elvive Full Restore 5 Repairing Shampoo. However, that's at a recommendation from Firefox. She's much, much more knowledgeable about ingredients and products than I am, so perhaps you could ask her.

With that (and despite very hard water) I only need to clarify and chelate every 2-3 months. I use cocoamidopropyl betaine-containing SLS-free shampoo for my regular wash (specifically, Boot's Naturals Body Building shampoo - but whichever of theirs has cocoamidopropyl betaine as the first ingredient after water (beware - not all of them do)). My clarifying/chelating shampoo is Pantene Classic Clarifying shampoo. All works pretty ok for me.

ErinLeigh
August 29th, 2014, 03:51 AM
If you are worried about buildup from cones, I find the Paul Mitchel line has excellent products with water soluble cones (removed with water or conditioner only, so no shampoo required) A list of some water soluble silicones to search for

PEG-8 (or higher) Dimethicone
Bis-PEG-8 (or higher) Dimethicone
Bis-PEG-8/PEG-8 Dimethicone
Bis-PEG-18 methyl ether dimethyl silane
PEG-8-PG-coco glucoside dimethicone
Dimethicone PEG-X phosphate
Dimethcione copolyol
Hydrolyzed wheat protein hydroxypropyl polysiloxane
Lauryl methicone copolyol

Loreal split end repair is true cones (non water soluble) but has ceramides and can make tattered ends look silky and healthy. It is my secret weapon when nothing else is working. There is one by Nexxus that is supposed to seal the splits when applied (until washed of course.)
As much as I like my hair" natural" product wise, I am grateful there are good products to get me thru the times my hair has gone beyond my comfort zone of health. It may be "faking it" but if it works..to me its better than letting the ends get more frayed in the meantime. I mean if I cut all the damage I could end up with a pixie so sometimes the big guns hold things together until I have enough trims.

A gentle cleansing option for me if I use non water soluble cones is Curl Junkie. It considered a cowash but has cocoamidopropyl betaine..so it can remove what I put on (cones,oils etc) I am not sure Curk Junkie in easy to get in the UK ...but Jessie Curl Hair Cleansing Creme is similar as an alternate and has the coco bet. They also carry a nice "gentle lather" SLS free shampoo that removes cones.. Their site lists stores in the UK. These type of products help me with washing when my hair is fragile.

A deep conditioner I love that has all the good ingredients Firefox mentioned (ceramides, 18-MEA etc..) is Redken Extreme BuilderPlus (no cones in this one)
I swear my ends would have frazzled off without it. I use every time I clarify. I rinse 80 percent and keep the rest in until next wash and it has helped tremendously.

As far as oils if you aren't ready for cones, hemp seed oil is great. One to 2 drops rubbed between palms and applied to ends is very very light but keeps them soft and smooth and not weighted down. It is claimed this oil contains natural ceramides and I do believe it based on results.

That's all I can think of for now. Just wanted to give some product ideas as I see you are thinking about cones a bit.

milque
August 30th, 2014, 05:20 PM
Thanks ErinLeigh for the list of silicones to look out for!

I did a bit of reading on that subject and I've decided to give water soluble cones a try. The only coney conditioner that I have is Aussie 3MM Deeeep conditioner, but it's got 2 non-water soluble cones in it. So I'd appreciate any recommendations of affordable conditioners with these cones, and ceramides and 18-MEA if possible, that I can find in the UK. In the mean time I will do a protein treatment using a protein based conditioner.

To those who advise in cutting back the oil, I guess I can see why it's been backfiring on me. I thought by applying a tiny bit on the ends while my hair is damp will trap the moisture in, but it may be the case that it is actually keeping moisture out of the hair shaft.

Thank you again for all your support! :flower:

ErinLeigh
August 30th, 2014, 08:08 PM
Thanks ErinLeigh for the list of silicones to look out for!

I did a bit of reading on that subject and I've decided to give water soluble cones a try. The only coney conditioner that I have is Aussie 3MM Deeeep conditioner, but it's got 2 non-water soluble cones in it. So I'd appreciate any recommendations of affordable conditioners with these cones, and ceramides and 18-MEA if possible, that I can find in the UK. In the mean time I will do a protein treatment using a protein based conditioner.

To those who advise in cutting back the oil, I guess I can see why it's been backfiring on me. I thought by applying a tiny bit on the ends while my hair is damp will trap the moisture in, but it may be the case that it is actually keeping moisture out of the hair shaft.

Thank you again for all your support! :flower:

Welcome. IF you can get Paul Mitchel Tea Tree conditioner (or the generic) it has the water soluble.
Also the Redken if you can is perfection.

I don't think the oil is trapping moisture out if you are using on damp hair post wash..It could just be it's time to rotate something else in for a while until the ends get trimmed off slowly.
The oils and cones are both good sealers..its just the cones are known for better slip and it is that little extra friction reduction that really helps when ends are fragile.
I will never give up my oils..pre wash oiling is a must for me. I just think I need a little more help right now with tangled ends so this is where cones will be a nice addition. I think my dryness probably came from too much oil especially when I did dry hair oiling.

Good luck with everything :) I cant wait to hear updates. Hair is so darn fickle you just never know what will work.

milque
September 1st, 2014, 08:20 AM
Welcome. IF you can get Paul Mitchel Tea Tree conditioner (or the generic) it has the water soluble.
Also the Redken if you can is perfection.

I don't think the oil is trapping moisture out if you are using on damp hair post wash..It could just be it's time to rotate something else in for a while until the ends get trimmed off slowly.
The oils and cones are both good sealers..its just the cones are known for better slip and it is that little extra friction reduction that really helps when ends are fragile.
I will never give up my oils..pre wash oiling is a must for me. I just think I need a little more help right now with tangled ends so this is where cones will be a nice addition. I think my dryness probably came from too much oil especially when I did dry hair oiling.

Good luck with everything :) I cant wait to hear updates. Hair is so darn fickle you just never know what will work.

Thanks for the recommendations! I couldn't find the Redken and Paul Mitchell Tea Tree condish in stores, but I found Paul Mitchell The Detangler and got that one instead. It seems to have 2 water soluble cones in it. I'm gonna try it on my next wash day. *cross fingers

Water, Isododecane, Cetearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Bisamino PEG/PPG 41/3 Aminoethyl PG Propyl Dimethicone, Algae (Seaweed) Extract, Aloe Vera (Aloe Barbadensis) Extract, Anthemis Nobilis (Roman Chamomile) Flower Extract, Lawsonia Inermis (Henna) Extract (Henna), Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Extract (Jojoba), Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Extract (Rosemary), PEG 12 Dimethicone, Daucus Carota Sativa (Carrot) Leaf Extract (Carrot), Daucus Carota Sativa (Carrot) Seed Oil (Carrot), Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Oil (Grape), Citric Acid, Tetrasodium EDTA, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Magnesium Chloride, Magnesium Nitrate, Fragrance (Parfum), Hexylcinnamal, Yellow 5 Lake (CI 19140), Orange 4 (CI 15510), Red 40 Lake (CI 16035) (CI 16035)

Hair update: Yesterday I left a protein based conditioner for about 10 minutes in my hair before rinsing out. After rinsing with distilled water, i applied a tiny amount of the same conditioner to the ends of my hair while it was very wet. When dried, my ends feel and look improved. There are still split ends and breakage, but they are smoother to touch. I'm feeling very positive about this improvement! :)

MiamiPineapple
September 1st, 2014, 08:45 AM
Milque...just way too much stuff going on your head!

Leave off the post-wash light avocado oil and the humectant leave in
SMT once a month

I'd leave off the pre-wash coconut oiling also. Clarify once a month!

Less is more!

I am going to agree with Madora. She told me to simplify things yesterday. My ends were dry and stiff, I was using a ton of oil and product. I clarified and used my natural aloe conditioner. I left a little of that in my hair and a few pumps of leave-in and let it air dry. Now its soft and silky. I have some damage on my ends too. I think less really is more. I French braided my hair after it dried and went to bed. I am just going to leave it alone and do an oiling once a week.

milque
September 1st, 2014, 09:07 AM
I am going to agree with Madora. She told me to simplify things yesterday. My ends were dry and stiff, I was using a ton of oil and product. I clarified and used my natural aloe conditioner. I left a little of that in my hair and a few pumps of leave-in and let it air dry. Now its soft and silky. I have some damage on my ends too. I think less really is more. I French braided my hair after it dried and went to bed. I am just going to leave it alone and do an oiling once a week.

My ends are like that too. When I washed yesterday I didn't put any oil on, and saw an improvement. I'm going to lay off the oils for now till my hair gets better.

I'm glad it turns out well for you in the end! :)

milque
September 4th, 2014, 10:41 PM
Update: today was wash day. I didn't use any oil before washing, just shampooed my hair with diluted shampoo, and applied Paul Mitchell The Detangler. Very slippy in the shower. Then I rinsed with distilled water, and applied a tiny, tiny bit of that conditioner while my hair was dripping wet. Nothing else.

When my hair dried, it's the best it's ever been in a very long time! Much better than when I was off cones! My sad ends are not sad anymore. Guess I'm back to using them now :D

Also my sister gifted me with a small bottle of the infamous Moroccanoil Oil Treatment. The first 3 ingredients are heavy cones. Previously I would have cringed, but since the good result I'm seeing today I might just give it a try. Any thoughts or experience with the product?

Again thank you all who gave me advice and support! LHC is awesome :joy:

Panth
September 5th, 2014, 02:44 AM
I've not tried it.

However, don't overuse the leave-ins (of any sort). Your previous issue was not necessarily (or at least not entirely) the fact that you cut out 'cones and used oils, it was probably mostly the sheer quantity of oils (and other leave-ins and deep treatments) that you were using. I'd just be wary of essentially causing the same problem all over again.

Johannah
September 5th, 2014, 07:10 AM
I've never tried it, but I've heard A LOT of good things about it!

I'm happy for you you're hair is back to normal (or even better!). :blossom:

milque
September 5th, 2014, 09:23 AM
I've not tried it.

However, don't overuse the leave-ins (of any sort). Your previous issue was not necessarily (or at least not entirely) the fact that you cut out 'cones and used oils, it was probably mostly the sheer quantity of oils (and other leave-ins and deep treatments) that you were using. I'd just be wary of essentially causing the same problem all over again.

That's sound advice. I do agree I have the tendency to think that 'more is better', which I need to stop. Minimisation is key!

And, thanks Johannah :)