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Sparklylady82
August 25th, 2014, 03:45 PM
Since I've been here on LHC I've been incorporating oils into my routine along with using a low-poo shampoo. Last night I did an overnight coconut oil treatment an I woke up this morning with little pimples and the side of my face on both sides...it looks horrible! My scalp has also been coming up with pimples especially at the nape and hair line. Should I quit using oils? Has anyone else had this problem? Help! I want healthy frizz free hair but I want healthy scalp and skin too.

Firefox7275
August 25th, 2014, 03:47 PM
Is it all penetrating oils or just coconut? Is your oil refined or unrefined? Could be an allergic reaction.

Sparklylady82
August 25th, 2014, 03:50 PM
Well last night I used organic unrefined coconut oil overnight... I also use jojoba oil which is non penetrating.

sarahthegemini
August 25th, 2014, 03:52 PM
IMO, there is a lot of emphasis on oiling but it isn't the "be all and end all" If it is breaking you out, either try a different oil or stop oiling completely. It isn't necessarily a crucial part of good hair care, and it isn't necessarily the best solution to 'healthy frizz free hair'

lapushka
August 25th, 2014, 06:05 PM
IMO, there is a lot of emphasis on oiling but it isn't the "be all and end all" If it is breaking you out, either try a different oil or stop oiling completely. It isn't necessarily a crucial part of good hair care, and it isn't necessarily the best solution to 'healthy frizz free hair'

What she says! ^^ I have seborrheic dermatitis. I can't oil my scalp - at all. If you are going to oil, oil only the ends of your hair. I'm not sure if you've done that or not.

meteor
August 25th, 2014, 07:02 PM
In the immediate future (while your skin is recovering), just give your scalp a break, keep it clean of all products and use only your tried and tested default shampoo/cleansing method.

Sounds like it could be an allergic reaction or irritation... Firefox asked very relevant questions.
Allergies to coconut and other natural products are not that rare. And actually, natural extracts are more likely to cause allergic reactions than chemical compounds, unfortunately.

For anti-humidity, anti-frizz effects, I'd recommend trying mineral oil or some silicones (artificial oils) that don't build-up very easily.
Mineral oil is famous for being less comedogenic and less of a potential allergen than natural oils.
If you get similar effects even with mineral oil, then oiling is possibly not for you.
Skin conditions like SD can get worse rather than better with natural oils (esp. the ones rich in oleic acid).
And frankly, your hair can grow in great condition without and oils on scalp - oils on scalp are simply not necessary.

Good luck! :)

Aderyn
August 25th, 2014, 07:18 PM
Did you sleep with your hair loose or contained? Coconut oil anywhere near my face causes me to break out (elsewhere is fine, though), and if I do use coconut oil on my hair, I make sure my hair won't be resting on my face.

Oiling the hair and/or scalp doesn't work for everyone, and it's not necessary in the slightest to grow long, healthy hair.

Firefox7275
August 25th, 2014, 08:59 PM
Well last night I used organic unrefined coconut oil overnight... I also use jojoba oil which is non penetrating.

Could be an allergy since you used unrefined, be cautious of coconut from now on and obviously hot wash your pillowcases. Might be worth using other penetrating oils, ideally the refined versions of anything related to coconut because that should be nothing more than lipids (allergies are generally to proteins).

I have porous hair and don't oil particularly close to the roots so don't find it too tough to keep the oil off my face with an up do.

spidermom
August 25th, 2014, 09:19 PM
My advice: Wait until hair at scalp is oily, then oil length before bed. Make a loose-ish top-of-head ponytail (pineapple), and if you have enough length, braid it, and direct it over the top of your pillow to keep the oil away from your face.

I remove oil by washing the scalp with diluted shampoo solution, then applying conditioner to length and leaving it in until I do everything else I want to do in the bath or shower (shave legs, etc). Then I rinse while combing the length with shower comb or fingers. Usually most of the oil comes out. Sometimes my length still looks a bit oily. I wear my hair up until the next wash and do not repeat the oiling.

Sparklylady82
August 25th, 2014, 10:30 PM
What she says! ^^ I have seborrheic dermatitis. I can't oil my scalp - at all. If you are going to oil, oil only the ends of your hair. I'm not sure if you've done that or not.

Thankyou Lapushka. I always only oil from ear length down. I never have put oil on my scalp.


In the immediate future (while your skin is recovering), just give your scalp a break, keep it clean of all products and use only your tried and tested default shampoo/cleansing method.

Sounds like it could be an allergic reaction or irritation... Firefox asked very relevant questions.
Allergies to coconut and other natural products are not that rare. And actually, natural extracts are more likely to cause allergic reactions than chemical compounds, unfortunately.

For anti-humidity, anti-frizz effects, I'd recommend trying mineral oil or some silicones (artificial oils) that don't build-up very easily.
Mineral oil is famous for being less comedogenic and less of a potential allergen than natural oils.
If you get similar effects even with mineral oil, then oiling is possibly not for you.
Skin conditions like SD can get worse rather than better with natural oils (esp. the ones rich in oleic acid).
And frankly, your hair can grow in great condition without and oils on scalp - oils on scalp are simply not necessary.

Good luck! :)

Thankyou meteor! I am definately going to give myself a break from oils. It was a bit shocking to wake up with tiny pimples all over my face :eek: Is aragon oil another potential allergen?


Did you sleep with your hair loose or contained? Coconut oil anywhere near my face causes me to break out (elsewhere is fine, though), and if I do use coconut oil on my hair, I make sure my hair won't be resting on my face.

Oiling the hair and/or scalp doesn't work for everyone, and it's not necessary in the slightest to grow long, healthy hair.

Thank you Aderyn...I slept with it loose so I imagine it got on my pillow then irritated my face :( Good point! I ordered some silk sleep caps so if I do choose to oil overnight I could protect my skin.


Could be an allergy since you used unrefined, be cautious of coconut from now on and obviously hot wash your pillowcases. Might be worth using other penetrating oils, ideally the refined versions of anything related to coconut because that should be nothing more than lipids (allergies are generally to proteins).

I have porous hair and don't oil particularly close to the roots so don't find it too tough to keep the oil off my face with an up do.

Thank you firefox...I figured refined was better or something. I really know nothing about oils haha. Do you know anything about aragon oil? I wonder if that would be a safe one for me to try. I am taking a break from all oil for awhile BUT I like the LOC method soooo hopefully this was just a thing with coconut oil :rolleyes:


My advice: Wait until hair at scalp is oily, then oil length before bed. Make a loose-ish top-of-head ponytail (pineapple), and if you have enough length, braid it, and direct it over the top of your pillow to keep the oil away from your face.

I remove oil by washing the scalp with diluted shampoo solution, then applying conditioner to length and leaving it in until I do everything else I want to do in the bath or shower (shave legs, etc). Then I rinse while combing the length with shower comb or fingers. Usually most of the oil comes out. Sometimes my length still looks a bit oily. I wear my hair up until the next wash and do not repeat the oiling.
May I ask what kind of shampoo? I am trying to figure out what I should use because I never put oil on my scalp and I am breaking out on my nape and hairline and some random spots on my scalp. I have been using Deva Low poo.

The night that I oiled my length with the coconut oil I had it up in a high bun away from my face. I think I am a wild sleeper though so I probably ended up rubbing my hair on pillow and then it transfered to my cheecks. My poor cheeks.

Anje
August 26th, 2014, 04:20 PM
It's possible it's an allergic reaction (especially if it's itchy). The other distinct possibility is that coconut oil gives you acne. It's often listed as being a very comedogenic (that is, acne-causing) oil, and though it doesn't trigger zits for everyone, it can be spectacular at it for sensitive individuals.

The good news is that many oils aren't particularly comedogenic. Further, even if you had an allergic reaction to one oil doesn't mean you'll react to an oil from a different sort of plant, though it might not be a bad idea to patch test. I haven't looked into argan oil, but olive oil, sesame oil, and grapeseed oil are all less comedogenic and often enjoyed as hair oils. If you liked the effect your hair got, it makes sense to keep trying other oils to see if you can get similar good results without the skin problems.

meteor
August 26th, 2014, 06:16 PM
[COLOR="#40E0D0"]Thankyou meteor! I am definately going to give myself a break from oils. It was a bit shocking to wake up with tiny pimples all over my face :eek: Is aragon oil another potential allergen?

All natural oils can be potential allergens, but as far as I know argan oil is not a common allergen. Also, it is low on the comedogenic scale (i.e. not particularly likely to cause acne).
If you want to try argan oil, my advice is:
1) Read ingredients lists and avoid over-priced serums like MoroccanOil - they are mostly silicones with a few drops of argan oil added as a selling point.
2) Check out local Middle Eastern grocery stores - they should have pure argan oil in the cooking section, because argan oil is a cooking oil.
3) Try a small bottle first - you never know if it will work for you before you try it - and always do a test-patch first!

I should add that my personal issue with using argan oil on hair is its high price and low availability: it is only produced in Morocco, and, I believe, the small supply is the only reason why this oil is so expensive. The fatty acid composition of this oil is pretty close to olive oil and sweet almond oil, and, from my experience, these two oils work extremely well on hair, too ... and are a lot cheaper.

Lazy Loop
August 26th, 2014, 06:22 PM
Also, while it is super convenient to "marinate" Hair Salad overnight, it does a great job by just leaving it on for an 1-3 hours (I think there is a study on that somewhere, don't quote me).

Anyway, it is a lot easier to keep it confined to hair, wear a towel around shoulders, put a plastic bag over hair, apply gentle heat if you can, etc., when you do it during the day.

I hope you are not allergic to coconut oil, it is the easiest to rinse out, and doesn't need as much "soaping" to get it out.

Your hair is very pretty! :o

~honeyflower~
August 26th, 2014, 07:00 PM
Um, before we go further with what oils to use. Shouldnt we focus on what would combat frizz? Oil doesnt combat frizz. Coconut in particular, can seal moisture in and acts as a seal. However, it doesnt moisturize you have to use water based moisturizers for that reason.Its a protein that builds structure to hair and it penetrates into the the core. Thats my research on coconut oil. I agree, you dont need oil to have healthy hair. I would like to turn our focus point towards what her goals are frizz free and a healthy routine. Any curlies out there would like to help her out with this? Sorry, I thought should speak up on this, I dont mean to bash anyone. I'm also sorry that we havent really cleared up about oiling but I dont think oiling is neccesary what she needs.

Anje
August 26th, 2014, 09:11 PM
Coconut in particular, can seal moisture in and acts as a seal. However, it doesnt moisturize you have to use water based moisturizers for that reason.Its a protein that builds structure to hair and it penetrates into the the core.
Um, sorry, that's not correct. Coconut oil is a lipid, not a protein.

It is true that not all hair does great with oil in general or coconut oil in particular. But it is useful stuff for replacing fatty acids lost by the hair and for weighing down frizz to smooth hair and hold in moisture.

Firefox7275
August 26th, 2014, 09:22 PM
Um, before we go further with what oils to use. Shouldnt we focus on what would combat frizz? Oil doesnt combat frizz. Coconut in particular, can seal moisture in and acts as a seal. However, it doesnt moisturize you have to use water based moisturizers for that reason.Its a protein that builds structure to hair and it penetrates into the the core. Thats my research on coconut oil. I agree, you dont need oil to have healthy hair. I would like to turn our focus point towards what her goals are frizz free and a healthy routine. Any curlies out there would like to help her out with this? Sorry, I thought should speak up on this, I dont mean to bash anyone. I'm also sorry that we havent really cleared up about oiling but I dont think oiling is neccesary what she needs.

Natural oils help combat frizz for me especially when I wear my hair straight, moisture (water) can easily cause frizz on my wavy porous hair as it can for many curlies in certain dew points/ humidity.

Coconut oil is a fat not a protein, it can either be used as a 'seal' (occlusive) to slow water leaving the hair OR used as a penetrating oil on dry hair to reduce the amount of water the hair holds. This can be very healthy for hair like mine that is overly porous, water can actually damage hair (hygral fatigue).

The whole moisturising hair thing is much misunderstood IMO, we cannot measure the water content of our hair at home so we cannot know if our hair is too dry/ dehydrated. What we often mean is that we want hair that is better conditioned or emollience (softness, slip, some shine). Oils do have emollience as a secondary property (main being occlusive).

~honeyflower~
August 26th, 2014, 09:45 PM
Thank you for correcting me Firefox and Anje, I didnt know. I'm sorry, I thought I understood how coconut oil works because there is so much information about it on the internet. Tossing out my notecards about coconut oil. Sorry everyone, thankfully this is the only thread that I posted about coconut oil.

meteor
August 26th, 2014, 10:54 PM
~honeyflower~, you have nothing to apologize for. :) You are right in that we need to address the anti-frizz search that the OP is on, which is why I mentioned mineral oil and silicones as anti-frizz alternatives.

If you need to fight frizz, you should primarily focus on occlusives (anti-humectants, hydrophobic items) like oils, silicones, waxes, 18-MEA, ceramides... Some of them, especially some silicones and waxes, can build up pretty quickly, so use them wisely and clarify, when necessary.
Occlusives help "seal", i.e. slow down, the evaporation of moisture in and out of hair a bit.

Even penetrative oils like coconut can work as "sealants", too, if you use enough to somewhat coat wet/damp hair, for example.

I recommend reading this article on oils and how to make pre-poo oils work for your hair: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/03/oil-pre-shampoo-or-pre-wash.html

windinherhair
August 27th, 2014, 12:01 AM
My skin is very acne prone. and I also just tried using coconut oil for the first time. So far I haven't had any reactions yet. Make sure you are wearing your hair up and covered at night, but since you are also getting the pimples on your scalp you might try some other oils... this might just not be a good one for you. I have used jojoba oil mostly...which is also used for treating break outs.

Sparklylady82
August 27th, 2014, 12:14 AM
All natural oils can be potential allergens, but as far as I know argan oil is not a common allergen. Also, it is low on the comedogenic scale (i.e. not particularly likely to cause acne).
If you want to try argan oil, my advice is:
1) Read ingredients lists and avoid over-priced serums like MoroccanOil - they are mostly silicones with a few drops of argan oil added as a selling point.
2) Check out local Middle Eastern grocery stores - they should have pure argan oil in the cooking section, because argan oil is a cooking oil.
3) Try a small bottle first - you never know if it will work for you before you try it - and always do a test-patch first!

I should add that my personal issue with using argan oil on hair is its high price and low availability: it is only produced in Morocco, and, I believe, the small supply is the only reason why this oil is so expensive. The fatty acid composition of this oil is pretty close to olive oil and sweet almond oil, and, from my experience, these two oils work extremely well on hair, too ... and are a lot cheaper.

Good idea! It is expensive.


Also, while it is super convenient to "marinate" Hair Salad overnight, it does a great job by just leaving it on for an 1-3 hours (I think there is a study on that somewhere, don't quote me).

Anyway, it is a lot easier to keep it confined to hair, wear a towel around shoulders, put a plastic bag over hair, apply gentle heat if you can, etc., when you do it during the day.

I hope you are not allergic to coconut oil, it is the easiest to rinse out, and doesn't need as much "soaping" to get it out.

Your hair is very pretty! :o
I am not sure but I though coconut oil needed some time to penetrate the hair? more than just 1-3 hours, I could be wrong though.



Um, before we go further with what oils to use. Shouldnt we focus on what would combat frizz? Oil doesnt combat frizz. Coconut in particular, can seal moisture in and acts as a seal. However, it doesnt moisturize you have to use water based moisturizers for that reason.Its a protein that builds structure to hair and it penetrates into the the core. Thats my research on coconut oil. I agree, you dont need oil to have healthy hair. I would like to turn our focus point towards what her goals are frizz free and a healthy routine. Any curlies out there would like to help her out with this? Sorry, I thought should speak up on this, I dont mean to bash anyone. I'm also sorry that we havent really cleared up about oiling but I dont think oiling is neccesary what she needs.

I think this was clarified below but oil in particular has helped my hair and I have WAY less frizz these days.


Um, sorry, that's not correct. Coconut oil is a lipid, not a protein.

It is true that not all hair does great with oil in general or coconut oil in particular. But it is useful stuff for replacing fatty acids lost by the hair and for weighing down frizz to smooth hair and hold in moisture. This is what I use it for, to hold in moisture LOC.


Natural oils help combat frizz for me especially when I wear my hair straight, moisture (water) can easily cause frizz on my wavy porous hair as it can for many curlies in certain dew points/ humidity.

Coconut oil is a fat not a protein, it can either be used as a 'seal' (occlusive) to slow water leaving the hair OR used as a penetrating oil on dry hair to reduce the amount of water the hair holds. This can be very healthy for hair like mine that is overly porous, water can actually damage hair (hygral fatigue).

The whole moisturising hair thing is much misunderstood IMO, we cannot measure the water content of our hair at home so we cannot know if our hair is too dry/ dehydrated. What we often mean is that we want hair that is better conditioned or emollience (softness, slip, some shine). Oils do have emollience as a secondary property (main being occlusive).




~honeyflower~, you have nothing to apologize for. :) You are right in that we need to address the anti-frizz search that the OP is on, which is why I mentioned mineral oil and silicones as anti-frizz alternatives.

If you need to fight frizz, you should primarily focus on occlusives (anti-humectants, hydrophobic items) like oils, silicones, waxes, 18-MEA, ceramides... Some of them, especially some silicones and waxes, can build up pretty quickly, so use them wisely and clarify, when necessary.
Occlusives help "seal", i.e. slow down, the evaporation of moisture in and out of hair a bit.

Even penetrative oils like coconut can work as "sealants", too, if you use enough to somewhat coat wet/damp hair, for example.

I recommend reading this article on oils and how to make pre-poo oils work for your hair: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/03/oil-pre-shampoo-or-pre-wash.html
This is exactly why I oil my hair...I love the pre-poo from sciency. I actually had a hair analysis done by her and she was the one that reccomended pure coconut oil for my very damaged ends.

My skin is very acne prone. and I also just tried using coconut oil for the first time. So far I haven't had any reactions yet. Make sure you are wearing your hair up and covered at night, but since you are also getting the pimples on your scalp you might try some other oils... this might just not be a good one for you. I have used jojoba oil mostly...which is also used for treating break outs.
I think that was my problem! I didn't make sure the oil didn't get on my skin. I will try again in the future but I am taking a break from coconut oil for awhile :-) I bought some silk caps too!

Firefox7275
August 27th, 2014, 07:14 AM
The published research on coconut oil penetrating uses timescales of a long overnight up to twenty four hours. It is believed to dIffuse in very slowly. One to three hour soaks may have only the most limited of penetrations which one is unlikely to notice any difference from since cosmetic effects are primarily about the outer cuticle not the inner cortex.

HOWEVER that doesn't mean it is useless, pre-pooing with any oil may reduce the negative effects of water and/ or shampoo on the hair. It is also possible that harsher surfactants aid penetration of the lauric acid, SLS was used in the studies IIRC.

Sparklylady82
August 27th, 2014, 08:23 AM
The published research on coconut oil penetrating uses timescales of a long overnight up to twenty four hours. It is believed to dIffuse in very slowly. One to three hour soaks may have only the most limited of penetrations which one is unlikely to notice any difference from since cosmetic effects are primarily about the outer cuticle not the inner cortex.

HOWEVER that doesn't mean it is useless, pre-pooing with any oil may reduce the negative effects of water and/ or shampoo on the hair. It is also possible that harsher surfactants aid penetration of the lauric acid, SLS was used in the studies IIRC.

I might try sunflower oil as a penetrating overnight treatment instead of the coconut oil...or at least a 1-3 hour treatment :-)

meteor
August 27th, 2014, 09:32 AM
I am not sure but I though coconut oil needed some time to penetrate the hair? more than just 1-3 hours, I could be wrong though.
The longer you keep the oil in your hair, the more it penetrates. The studies were done overnight (so between 8 and 10 hours, I would imagine). However, shorter periods would work too. Things that increase the penetration of oils are:
1) time - the more it's left on, the more it will penetrate;
2) temperature - warmed oils are runnier and will penetrate faster;
3) amount and thoroughness of application - the more carefully you slather on, the more likely you are to cover all the hair in your pre-poo mixture (you might want to use a BBB to spread the oils really well).
4) molecular structure - obviously, you need short/medium-chain fatty acids to penetrate, which is why coconut oil is a "penetrating" oil. For example, refined, fractionated coconut oil might also be likely to penetrate even better than virgin coconut. (There is no research on this, unfortunately).


I think that was my problem! I didn't make sure the oil didn't get on my skin. I will try again in the future but I am taking a break from coconut oil for awhile :-) I bought some silk caps too!
It's hard not to get any oil at all on your skin when you toss and turn in your sleep. But a plastic cap and/or a sleep cap should help reduce the transfer of oil to your face a bit.



This is exactly why I oil my hair...I love the pre-poo from sciency. I actually had a hair analysis done by her and she was the one that reccomended pure coconut oil for my very damaged ends.
Since you've already done Science-y hair analysis, I recommend asking her what she'd suggest as coconut oil alternatives for you, since you've had this reaction to coconut oil and since she saw your hair under a microscope and can tell much better what your hair needs.
I would imagine something with similar fatty acid composition (i.e. having good amount of lauric acid) like palm oil might work. I also think that refined, fractionated coconut oil might work and not give a reaction, and it's easily available and cheap (at Indian/Asian stores) so I'd test it out. Always do patch tests with all new products first.

Good luck! :flower:

Firefox7275
August 27th, 2014, 09:59 AM
I might try sunflower oil as a penetrating overnight treatment instead of the coconut oil...or at least a 1-3 hour treatment :-)

The polyunsaturates (linoleic acid) that sunflower oil tends to be rich in penetrate relatively poorly, the minor monounsaturated (oleic acid) component may penetrate tho. It is thought that short chain fatty acids with a straight 'shape' (saturated or monounsaturated) are best able to slip under the cuticle.

I've recently been experimenting with fractionated coconut oil (highly refined and with the larger molecules removed) which is rich in small molecule capric/ caprylic triglycerides (8 and 10 carbons) and it does seem to disappear somewhere, but whether it is just spreading through my hair or onto my bed linen is hard to know! I do at least like the light silky texture.

http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2003/cc054n02/p00175-p00192.pdf
http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2005/cc056n05/p00283-p00295.pdf

Wendy's take
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/oils-which-ones-soak-in-vs-coat-hair.html

spidermom
August 27th, 2014, 11:40 AM
I have successfully used a variety of shampoo. Right now I am using VO5 vanilla mint tea therapy as my clarifying shampoo and Giovanni Smooth as Silk for my usual shampoo. I've discovered that the shampoo I use doesn't make as much of a difference as using a good conditioner. I almost always dilute the shampoo in a squirt bottle with some water.