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Madora
August 19th, 2014, 02:55 PM
Inching Along, this is for you!http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w225/07Erzbet/81914GMsalonmontage_edited-1.jpg (http://s177.photobucket.com/user/07Erzbet/media/81914GMsalonmontage_edited-1.jpg.html)

Please forgive quality of pics. I only had an instamatic! The 8 strand braid picture was only there in 1988.

The pictures stayed the same, as far as I could tell from my 3 visits.

fiðrildi
August 19th, 2014, 03:22 PM
The 8 strand braid is amazing! :disbelief
Is that your hair?

LongCurlyTress
August 19th, 2014, 03:24 PM
Great pictures! Thanks for posting these, Madora! Esp for those of us who might not ever have the opportunity to go there. Love George Michael's theories! And as far as his theory about bangs slowing down the growth of the length, well, I cut bangs in June to mid nose bridge, and... my bangs have already grown 2 1/2 inches to past my lower lip! WOW! Not sure if this has held up the rest of my growth, but my bangs sure are growing back quickly! GAAAH! No bangs ever again! :disco:

Sarahlabyrinth
August 19th, 2014, 03:59 PM
Thank you so much Madora for posting these. Can you tell us what you had done while you were there and all about the experience, were they super-gentle on your hair, etc.? What kind of services do they offer?

Madora
August 19th, 2014, 04:02 PM
The 8 strand braid is amazing! :disbelief
Is that your hair? Alas, not mine, fiorildi!

LongCurlyTress, glad to read your bangs are growing longer!

Vanilla
August 19th, 2014, 05:34 PM
Awesome pictures Madora! I so wish a trim and a treatment at the GM salon was in my budget now. My hair looked and felt stunning afterwards :)

DweamGoiL
August 19th, 2014, 05:59 PM
I used to love going there years ago. This is another section of the wall from my visit in 2003:

http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/dweamgoil/Long%20Hair%202003%20to%20Now/GM%20Jul%202003/GM071003after_me_n_monk_zps3c4557fb.jpg

meteor
August 19th, 2014, 06:02 PM
Oh My Goodness! :thud:
How did they do that incredible 8-strand braid? It doesn't look like a standard 8-strand braid at all. This hairstyle will be an obsession of mine, I can already tell! :crush:

Madora
August 19th, 2014, 06:33 PM
I used to love going there years ago. This is another section of the wall from my visit in 2003:

http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/dweamgoil/Long%20Hair%202003%20to%20Now/GM%20Jul%202003/GM071003after_me_n_monk_zps3c4557fb.jpg

Thank you so very much, DweamGoil, for sharing your Gm photo! Your hair looks sensational!

Meteor: isn't that braid something else? When I came in for my appointment that year, that picture, an oversized one, was hanging on one of the walls...way up high. They were incredibly busy that day, but Maria Matarazzo, Mr. Michael's directrice, kindly took it down so I could try and get a picture of it. If you think that's something, you should see the other GM multi braid pic I have. It's one of the most beautiful styles I've ever seen...but I haven't a clue how they did it.

Madora
August 19th, 2014, 07:15 PM
Thank you so much Madora for posting these. Can you tell us what you had done while you were there and all about the experience, were they super-gentle on your hair, etc.? What kind of services do they offer?

Buckle your seatbelt, Sarahlabyrinth, this is gonna be long!

1) After the client has arrived, she's directed to the changing room where she dons a smock to protect her clothing
2) She then proceeds to the washing area. The hair is thoroughly wetted
3) The GM Pink Crème shampoo is poured over the hair for the first light shampoo. Hair is rinsed. The water pressure makes me drool, even to this day!
4) It is massaged into the scalp deeply and rhythmically in the second shampoo (God, does this feel heavenly!!)
5) The French technique of laundering the hair is to squeeze down the length of the hair in a gentle motion. Rinse until squeaky clean.
6) Use the same technique for rinsing the hair.
7) A towel is used to blot the crown area of the head.
8) A towel is slid down to the lower length, then the hair is gently squeezed
9) The hair is placed in a towel and the hair and the towel are then twisted to the top of the head.

TREATMENT:

10) Smooth the treatment over the crown (I don't remember if the 3 minute or the 10 minute GM conditioning treatment was used)
11) The treatment is worked into the ends. (It is extremely thick and creamy)
12) The ends are taken up to the crown. Excess cream is absorbed into the ends.
13) More cream is repeated and the procedure is repeated.
14) Then, taking long strands, one at a time, wrap each strand around the crown.
15) This wrapping will balance the weight and heat for even penetration
16) The hair is wrapped in wax paper twice. This forms a protective cap around the hair.
17) The top of the cap is closed, and the ears are left exposed
18) The liner stays clean and sterile and eliminates unnecessary messiness
19) The ears are protected with several tissues. They use lots but I asked for more
20) The heat cap is placed over this and put on the timer for one hour. Immediately after removing the cap, the hair is neutralized with warm water to prevent
crystallizing of the cream.
21) Hair is rinsed, combed (detangled) and prepared for setting.
22) Mesh rollers are used.
23) Rollers with teeth or brushes inside the rollers are not used
24) GM states that a basic set is all that is necessary for long hair
25) Drying - done under specially made dryers from Vienna, Austria, made to Dr. Michael's specifications. They are set on a timer. Getting all those rollers under the dryer is something else!
26) After the hair has completely dried (this might take several tries. It took me 3-1/2 hours on my first visit) the rollers are taken out.
27) The client is then instructed to brush her hair, in the bent at the waist position

Trimming for Splits:

28) A section of hair is parted across the head (in front of the ears and combed until straight. The hair is held taut.
29) Any ends that are stringy are removed
30) The section of hair is placed to the side (in front)
31) The hair is combed thru the length and held taut
32) Then using the section in front as a guideline, the hair is cut on a 45 degree angle
33) Trimming continues in this fashion around the head to the center back
34) Repeat steps for the other side of the hair. Check the hemline. On final inspection, only the tips of the shears are used.

End result..utterly fabulous, glorious, silky, shiny, incredible hair!!!!!

Please note: all info comes from Issue #29 of Aura, the Essence of Beauty, published by Pivot Point International, Inc. 1975.

I had the full treatment...the shampoo, conditioner, roller set, trim. They were very gentle, though I did ask them to go easy on my hair at the detangling juncture (but then, I have a tender scalp. They were most attentive, asking if the water was too hot, adding more hot water if I wanted it.

As for services: they do trims and cut hair...but no bangs and no layers. They also had hairstyling lessons..but they were expensive. If you have the full treatment, be prepared to spend at least 2-1/2 hours...or more. Bring something to read. You can order out for food. They had tea/coffee available if you wished.

There was also a small display case of a limited variety of hair friendly hair toys, plus the GM products.

Tips: Are expected. Since 3 girls worked on my hair, I divided the tip among them, giving the major portion to the girl who did the most work.

I would definitely schedule your appointment as early in the morning as possible! All my 3 experiences were at the original salon at 420 Madison. The GM salon is now known as Madora's Long Hair Heaven and is located a few steps up...on the same block...not too far from 48th.

@Vanilla - so glad you got to go and experience the awesomeness of a full GM treatment! Really something, isn't it?!!!!!!!

PS Some long hairs have complained that the GM employees were a bit aggressive in pitching the GM product for sale. I never ran into any spiel whatsoever. I did receive a little pamphlet about proper hair care but that was all.

Syren_Curls
August 19th, 2014, 07:22 PM
This was such a treat. I can tell you that I still mentally escape to my treatment here as my "happy place" on a long day. I had the full treatment done and will recommend Agnes... not because anyone else was bad, but because it was amazing and she was the one who did it :-) I also recommend taking a subway or cab or having someone else worry about feeding the meter outside so you can truly enjoy the luxury.

My hair never looked more amazing!

Madora
August 19th, 2014, 07:26 PM
This was such a treat. I can tell you that I still mentally escape to my treatment here as my "happy place" on a long day. I had the full treatment done and will recommend Agnes... not because anyone else was bad, but because it was amazing and she was the one who did it :-) I also recommend taking a subway or cab or having someone else worry about feeding the meter outside so you can truly enjoy the luxury.

My hair never looked more amazing!

Oh, yes, Agnes is TOPS. I asked for her each time. Very professional, very thorough.

I'd definitely recommend the subway. Cabs are way too pricey and the traffic is nuts!

MsPharaohMoan
August 19th, 2014, 07:34 PM
Gosh… Sounds divine! I'm curious if "Madora's Long Hair Heaven" was what inspired your username, Madora. Or were YOU the one who inspired them? :lol: Do tell!

DweamGoiL
August 19th, 2014, 07:37 PM
Thank you so very much, DweamGoil, for sharing your Gm photo! Your hair looks sensational!

How could it look any different? That time I went I had the 1 hour treatment. My hair was like silk afterwards :)

Madora
August 19th, 2014, 07:39 PM
Gosh… Sounds divine! I'm curious if "Madora's Long Hair Heaven" was what inspired your username, Madora. Or were YOU the one who inspired them? :lol: Do tell!

You made me smile, MsPharoahMoan! Thanks for that.

I use "Madora" in honor of Mrs. Maria Matarazzo, the real Madora, who was Dr. Michael's long time directrice. A very lovely lady who kept things running in the salon and was Dr. M's factotum. She bought the salon from him in the late 80's and renamed it "Madora's Long Hair Heaven". Sadly, she passed away a few years ago.

I have no idea who is running the salon now. It is still in business and has a website...of sorts. It makes me wonder, though. It's so quiet on the website you can hear crickets. I check back every so often but there's nothing going on. Seems rather strange for such a well known long hair haven.

DweamGoiL
August 19th, 2014, 07:49 PM
Madora was such a sweetie. I was once in the salon admiring a hairtoy since my birthday was coming up. A few days later, my husband went in and she told him which toy I wanted and gave him a really good deal on it. It was soooo nice of her to do and shows how attentive she was to even remember which toy I wanted. I knew she had a penchant for antique combs so I found a really nice one on Ebay similar to one I had seen her wearing and I went in and wanted to give it to her personally. When I got there, she wasn't there, but I left it with one of the stylists with a little note. She called me back to thank me and told me how much she loved it. It was such a nice moment!

Sarahlabyrinth
August 19th, 2014, 07:49 PM
Ooh, thank you, Madora - it sounds like a dream...... sigh. :) I hope I will have the opportunity to go there!

EdG
August 19th, 2014, 07:52 PM
The pictures on the wall are making me think this was a precursor to LHC, twenty years earlier. :)
Ed

Madora
August 19th, 2014, 08:18 PM
Madora was such a sweetie. I was once in the salon admiring a hairtoy since my birthday was coming up. A few days later, my husband went in and she told him which toy I wanted and gave him a really good deal on it. It was soooo nice of her to do and shows how attentive she was to even remember which toy I wanted. I knew she had a penchant for antique combs so I found a really nice one on Ebay similar to one I had seen her wearing and I went in and wanted to give it to her personally. When I got there, she wasn't there, but I left it with one of the stylists with a little note. She called me back to thank me and told me how much she loved it. It was such a nice moment!

What a great story, DweamGoil! How kind of you to find that comb and give it to Mrs. M!

Sarahlaybrinth, I do so hope you get the opportunity to go!

EdG: you should have seen Dr. Michael's desk in his office. It was plastered with hundreds of small photos that his client's had sent him, all preserved under a thick sheet of glass.

Madora
August 19th, 2014, 08:19 PM
Madora was such a sweetie. I was once in the salon admiring a hairtoy since my birthday was coming up. A few days later, my husband went in and she told him which toy I wanted and gave him a really good deal on it. It was soooo nice of her to do and shows how attentive she was to even remember which toy I wanted. I knew she had a penchant for antique combs so I found a really nice one on Ebay similar to one I had seen her wearing and I went in and wanted to give it to her personally. When I got there, she wasn't there, but I left it with one of the stylists with a little note. She called me back to thank me and told me how much she loved it. It was such a nice moment!

What a great story, DweamGoil! How kind of you to find that comb and give it to Mrs. M!

Sarahlabyrinth, I do so hope you get the opportunity to go!

EdG: you should have seen Dr. Michael's desk in his office. It was plastered with hundreds of small photos that his client's had sent him, all preserved under a thick sheet of glass.

Syren_Curls
August 19th, 2014, 08:36 PM
If I am remembering correctly, there are also a few books of long haired photos to look through. I spent quite a looooooong time going through that while I waited through the treatment. That made me very happy :-D

Madora
August 19th, 2014, 08:42 PM
If I am remembering correctly, there are also a few books of long haired photos to look through. I spent quite a looooooong time going through that while I waited through the treatment. That made me very happy :-D

Oh, Syren_Curls, do you remember if the books were strictly photos...like of GM clients?? I know there were at least 2 publications that were for sale when I was there "The Systematic Approach to Long Hair Graphics" and the Aura, Essence of Beauty number. Years later, Heidi W mentioned hair books in Dr. Michael's office and I was green with envy. I didn't know a thing about those! I would imagine Dr. Michael would have kept an album of styles that his stylists had created...but I don't know if such was the case.

EdG
August 19th, 2014, 08:43 PM
EdG: you should have seen Dr. Michael's desk in his office. It was plastered with hundreds of small photos that his client's had sent him, all preserved under a thick sheet of glass. Wow, all this time I thought that taking pictures of the back of one's head was something that only we did. :lol:
Ed

Stormynights
August 19th, 2014, 08:47 PM
I learned so much about hair cutting from Pivot Point.

Madora
August 19th, 2014, 08:52 PM
I learned so much about hair cutting from Pivot Point.

Stormynights, did Pivot Point ever do any other long hair themed books beside the Systematic Approach to Long Hair Graphics? That is such a wonderful book. The best I ever saw (in those pre-Internet days)!

Vanilla
August 19th, 2014, 08:57 PM
The trim and treatment really is something! My hair has never gotten so pampered in its life. :)

Madora
August 19th, 2014, 09:00 PM
The trim and treatment really is something! My hair has never gotten so pampered in its life. :)

Ain't it the truth, Vanilla!! Like you died and gone to heaven! Sheer nirvana!!!!

meteor
August 19th, 2014, 09:22 PM
I have no idea who is running the salon now. It is still in business and has a website...of sorts. It makes me wonder, though. It's so quiet on the website you can hear crickets. I check back every so often but there's nothing going on. Seems rather strange for such a well known long hair haven.

Hmm, I was wondering the same when I visited their website. I find it strange actually that they aren't more popular or didn't start a whole movement. I thought these days there is an obsession with long hair, much more so than back in the 1980s, so many hair salons carry extensions and stuff, so I would imagine that GM salons (or something similar to that) catering to natural long hair would be much more popular these days. I'm guessing that they deliberately want to stay exclusive... but I'd imagine a pretty serious demand! :hmm:

Syren_Curls
August 19th, 2014, 09:44 PM
Oh, Syren_Curls, do you remember if the books were strictly photos...like of GM clients?? I know there were at least 2 publications that were for sale when I was there "The Systematic Approach to Long Hair Graphics" and the Aura, Essence of Beauty number. Years later, Heidi W mentioned hair books in Dr. Michael's office and I was green with envy. I didn't know a thing about those! I would imagine Dr. Michael would have kept an album of styles that his stylists had created...but I don't know if such was the case.

Yes! There were two books filled with pictures of GM clients and another scrapbook of various pictures, articles, and the like of Dr. Michael, the salon, or some of the more famous clients.

I was surprised about the low traffic of the website as well, but I noticed a bit of a somber and hushed tone around aspects of the history. It gave me the impression that they are still grieving the loss of Dr. Michael and Madora. I am hoping that it is just a state of transitions at this point and they will bounce back...

...and now I am having a fantasy of an LHC meetup there :-) Wouldn't that be a delightful day!

meteor
August 19th, 2014, 09:50 PM
...and now I am having a fantasy of an LHC meetup there :-) Wouldn't that be a delightful day!
Hell yeah! :D Sounds amazing! What an awesome idea! :thumbsup:

Ingrid
August 19th, 2014, 10:11 PM
Sigh... where I'm living right now, having long hair is guaranteed poor treatment by hairdressers (downright disdain). And there's no way they'll let you leave the salon if your hair is all one length...

Vanilla and Madora, you were so lucky to experience a proper salon treatment for clients with long hair!

Stormynights
August 19th, 2014, 10:11 PM
Stormynights, did Pivot Point ever do any other long hair themed books beside the Systematic Approach to Long Hair Graphics? That is such a wonderful book. The best I ever saw (in those pre-Internet days)!

They had so many books. Sadly I don't have any now. I seriously had to downsize my book collection. I even had magazines. I started subscribing in 1969. I just searched Amazon for PP books. They have a lot. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_pg_1?rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Apivot+point+hair+d esign&keywords=pivot+point+hair+design&ie=UTF8&qid=1408507393

Inching Along
August 19th, 2014, 10:48 PM
Inching Along, this is for you!http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w225/07Erzbet/81914GMsalonmontage_edited-1.jpg (http://s177.photobucket.com/user/07Erzbet/media/81914GMsalonmontage_edited-1.jpg.html)

Please forgive quality of pics. I only had an instamatic! The 8 strand braid picture was only there in 1988.

The pictures stayed the same, as far as I could tell from my 3 visits.

Oh, Madora, thank you! Thank you! I love the pictures and all the great info you've shared in this thread. I'm even more eager to go to a GM salon now!


...and now I am having a fantasy of an LHC meetup there :-) Wouldn't that be a delightful day!

Syren_Curls, what fun that would be! To meet other LHCers and to have a GM salon treatment--wow! I really would love to get the GM salons hopping and active. It would be great to see their websites changing and growing and reaching new clientele. I receive emails from the Beverly Hills location on occasion.

mz_butterfly
August 19th, 2014, 11:24 PM
How much does it cost for the treatment and how much should one give as a tip?

Sparklylady82
August 19th, 2014, 11:48 PM
Inching Along, this is for you!http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w225/07Erzbet/81914GMsalonmontage_edited-1.jpg (http://s177.photobucket.com/user/07Erzbet/media/81914GMsalonmontage_edited-1.jpg.html)

Please forgive quality of pics. I only had an instamatic! The 8 strand braid picture was only there in 1988.

The pictures stayed the same, as far as I could tell from my 3 visits.

So sweet of your for sharing this with us Madora! I have to say your hair is SOOO gorgeous! What a fun experience...Did you go to the one in the LA area. I'd love to go some day. I wonder if it is still the same experience with true long hair care?

LadyCelestina
August 20th, 2014, 05:42 AM
So interesting,thank you for sharing,Madora! :flower:

Johannah
August 20th, 2014, 05:57 AM
I just got an amazing idea. Let them open a GM salon in Belgium. Let's say, next to my house?

Majorane
August 20th, 2014, 06:59 AM
How much does it cost for the treatment and how much should one give as a tip?

This I'd like to know as well! :) Also, does anyone have any experience with their products they sell through the website? Not that I'm seriously planning on getting the stuff, but, part of me would like to know. Is it the same products they use when you go in for a treatment?

It sounds deliciously decadent, going there. But considering how much we don't spend on hairdressers, going there every year wouldn't be more expensive than going to a hairdresser every 8 weeks. The hairtoys do make up for that, buuuut we don't talk about those things, do we?

Johannah
August 20th, 2014, 07:18 AM
This I'd like to know as well! :) Also, does anyone have any experience with their products they sell through the website? Not that I'm seriously planning on getting the stuff, but, part of me would like to know. Is it the same products they use when you go in for a treatment?

It sounds deliciously decadent, going there. But considering how much we don't spend on hairdressers, going there every year wouldn't be more expensive than going to a hairdresser every 8 weeks. The hairtoys do make up for that, buuuut we don't talk about those things, do we?

Which hair toys? Where are you talking about? :ponder:

Majorane
August 20th, 2014, 07:36 AM
Which hair toys? Where are you talking about? :ponder:

So weird, I know you're trying to typetell us something, but al I see is *KGGGGGGGGGGGRRR* static. Weird!

:P

Madora
August 20th, 2014, 07:57 AM
Yes! There were two books filled with pictures of GM clients and another scrapbook of various pictures, articles, and the like of Dr. Michael, the salon, or some of the more famous clients.

I was surprised about the low traffic of the website as well, but I noticed a bit of a somber and hushed tone around aspects of the history. It gave me the impression that they are still grieving the loss of Dr. Michael and Madora. I am hoping that it is just a state of transitions at this point and they will bounce back...

...and now I am having a fantasy of an LHC meetup there :-) Wouldn't that be a delightful day!

Oh, gee, if I'd only known!!!!!! That's what I get for being so darn shy! I'm glad you were able to enjoy them, Syren_Curls! Just judging from the photos on the walls, those books must have been spectacular, to say the least!

My God...a GM salon meet! That would be THE hair meet of all time.

meteor
August 20th, 2014, 08:00 AM
Majorane, I think Madora has been using George Michael cream rinse for many years, so I hope she'll come back with her opinion. I think they are either using their 12-minute conditioner (available for sale) or something more intense during the hour-long treatment there.

Since you are located far from GM salons, I'd look at the ingredients first and figure out if I can find alternatives locally (many drugstore products have very similar compositions, I believe). I couldn't find any ingredients on GM website, but I did find them here: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=89219

Good luck! :flower:

Madora
August 20th, 2014, 08:18 AM
Ingrid, that's terrible! The idea of a hairdresser "strong arming" you to not leave the the salon unless you cut your hair! What gives THEM the right to determine what YOU want????

Stormynights: thanks so much for the link. Going to check it out, just in case!

Inching Along: Glad you enjoyed them! I hope you're able to go. It is expensive but so worth it!

mz_butterfly: I don't know what they charge now. Back in '82 it was $125.00, not counting tips. As for the tips themselves: I gave $5.00 to the girl who unrolled the curlers (that's all she did. She was an apprentice). For Agnes, who did the trimming and got my head under the dryer, $15.00. And for Clara, who did all the shampooing and rinsing and the crème conditioning, I gave $20.00....it was a LOT of work, she was very thorough, had a wonderful personality. She gave such incredible massages during the shampooing. Clara recently retired, I believe, so I don't know who took over those duties.

Sparklylady82: Thanks for the compliment! But really, all that shine is due to the GM treatment. You just can't believe your hair when you're through! Strange to say, I haven't been to the Bev. Hills location. But, I had visited the same outfit..under a different name (I think) when it was in either Westwood or Brentwood, CA...way back in the late 70s. Mr. Michael's former model, Jessie Lynn Funk, either ran it..or was connected with it someone. I believe she is still affiliated with the Bev. Hills salon. I only "know" Jessie thru a magazine article from years back.

LadyCelestina: Glad you enjoyed the pics!

brickworld13
August 20th, 2014, 08:24 AM
Oh that sounds like a heavenly treatment. Perhaps when I finally visit my bestie who is in NYC for her theater career, I will be able to stop in and get a major pampering.

Madora
August 20th, 2014, 09:01 AM
This I'd like to know as well! :) Also, does anyone have any experience with their products they sell through the website? Not that I'm seriously planning on getting the stuff, but, part of me would like to know. Is it the same products they use when you go in for a treatment?

It sounds deliciously decadent, going there. But considering how much we don't spend on hairdressers, going there every year wouldn't be more expensive than going to a hairdresser every 8 weeks. The hairtoys do make up for that, buuuut we don't talk about those things, do we?

Yes, it was deliciously decadent, Majorane! The bathroom alone was something else...nothing but mirrors on all sides!

I've been using the GM Pink Crème shampoo since my first visit to the salon in 1982. Yes, it is expensive, but it really works, smells great (doesn't irritate my overly sensitive sinuses) and I dilute it anyway. Every time I smell it, it brings me back to those happy times.

It is the same product as used in the salon..and only available thru the NYC salon (known as Madora's Long Hair Heaven...via snail mail only, last I checked). You can order it from the Enchantress (Ohio) website. I don't know about the Bev. Hills salon.

There's also the GM conditioners: one is a 3 minute and the other a 12 minute. Both are extremely thick and rich. I've used the 3 minute and liked it, but stopped using it for budgetary reasons.

ETA: Link for the Enchantress GM salon where you can purchase products: http://www.enchantress.com/

meteor
August 20th, 2014, 09:09 AM
Oh my goodness! Madora, I have to say: you have an AMAZING memory!!! You remember all the details from 1982 visit including the exact amounts paid to every person. I'm in awe! :bowtome: What's the secret to your amazing memory? :)

Madora
August 20th, 2014, 09:26 AM
Oh my goodness! Madora, I have to say: you have an AMAZING memory!!! You remember all the details from 1982 visit including the exact amounts paid to every person. I'm in awe! :bowtome: What's the secret to your amazing memory? :)

Meteor, your comment made me laugh! Thanks! I need to laugh more. Well, that was my first trip to NYC..which I'd been dreaming about ever since reading about Mr. Michael in 1960.

As luck would have it, I found out that my favorite soap opera, DARK SHADOWS, was holding a convention in NYC...so I was able to pursue two of my passions at the same time.

I wrote everything down...mini notes...and of course I wanted to remember EVERYTHING about the GM experience!!! Funny, I was nervous as hell going in to the Salon. I'd never, ever really been in a bona fide beauty salon and this was an alien world to me. I was awed by all the hair dryers, the workstations with bins full of curlers, and mirrors EVERYWHERE...and all those fantastic photos on the walls!!! Even the changing room had beautiful postcards of ladies with lovely hair (from the 19th century, painted by Josef Stieler. I love his portraits!).

The hairtoy display case was right in front, where you stepped out of the elevator, and my eyes gravitated to it immediately..but time was of the essence so I had to leave perusal for later, after the treatment. There weren't that many people having their hair done, but that changed after 12 PM when more began to arrive. I talked to a few and they seemed very blasé about the whole thing. Man, if I lived in NYC, I'd have a GM treatment every year!!! To them, it wasn't that much of a deal. After the treatment, I could have flown back home...without the plane!

meteor
August 20th, 2014, 10:05 AM
After the treatment, I could have flown back home...without the plane!

^ This made me really happy! :D
What an absolutely wonderful experience! And what a Long Hair Heaven it is! :cloud9:
Thank you so very much for sharing! :flowers:

I'm also curious: did Dr. George Michael express his opinion on complex styling and how to avoid mechanical damage? I know he was obviously against any heat styling, but did he warn against things like accent braids, or using too many pins, or doing too many complicated styles and tangling/damage? I remember Torrin Paige mentioned that she trims hair because it gets damaged past TBL due to her playing with different styles so much. And I'm kind of worried about that risk...

Madora
August 20th, 2014, 10:21 AM
^ This made me really happy! :D
What an absolutely wonderful experience! And what a Long Hair Heaven it is! :cloud9:
Thank you so very much for sharing! :flowers:

I'm also curious: did Dr. George Michael express his opinion on complex styling and how to avoid mechanical damage? I know he was obviously against any heat styling, but did he warn against things like accent braids, or using too many pins, or doing too many complicated styles and tangling/damage? I remember Torrin Paige mentioned that she trims hair because it gets damaged past TBL due to her playing with different styles so much. And I'm kind of worried about that risk...


Well, Meteor. To be honest, back in those days, few people really knew how to style their hair...I mean long hair styling with braids/buns. Except for a few, it was pretty much a lost art. Of course there had been an upsurge of interest in braids and long hair when the movie "10" with Bo Derek came out in '79. But most of the hairstyles were done by stylists..in the salon. There really wasn't any solid information available in BOOKS ('coz goodness knows, I regularly scoured 5 bookstores looking for same).

Mr. Michael never said anything about complex stylings. He was all for sectioning the hair to distribute the weight and didn't like low buns because to him they looked dowdy. He was death on layers and bangs. As far as pins were concerned, he warned against crossing bobby pins like this "X" because that puts too much pressure on that one spot.

I think he was all for long hairs learning how to arrange their hair (I got complimented for my 3 braided bun. I was just glowing inside. A compliment from the MASTER!)

In Miss Paige's case, because she does so many You Tube tutorials...he hair is subject to more "wear and tear" than the usual long hair's mane would be, so she takes care to see that the ends are trimmed.

And yes, the longer it gets, the older and more vulnerable it is. But, there's no cause for concern if you handle your hair carefully when experimenting. Always detangle gently before and AFTER you've created the style (when taking it down I mean). I think some of the damage occurs because folks don't detangle gently and properly. You can't style effectively (at least I can't) if the hair isn't smooth and tangle free to begin with. Also, there seems to be this "need for speed" when caring for your hair. Truly, if you want ultra long hair, you have to SLOW DOWN with that comb and brush. You must have the patience if you want to protect your hair and enjoy its beauty.

Syren_Curls
August 20th, 2014, 10:35 AM
This whole thread is making me smile :-)

I went last February and also had Agnes and Clara. I am now considering myself even luckier for that experience finding out that Clara might have retired. They were very sweet and could tell I was a first-time visitor... I guess it was obvious I was awestruck ;-) I didn't know as much at the time about the salon's history and Dr. Michael's philosophy so I asked Agnes a bit and she was nice enough to fill me in and bring out those books... which really did take my breath away.

Looking around, I could see many repeat customers who were, as you said Madora, kind of blase but were connected with their stylists. Agnes told me about another woman there who had lost her long hair to breast cancer but was there that day to help plan out her regrowth. That really touched my heart.

The full treatment plus the shampoo and conditioner cost me about $250. I know the trim was $80 and the products cost about $30 if that helps anyone figure out the relatively current costs.

I do plan to make it a yearly treat for myself around my birthday... I ended up getting a parking ticket but didn't even care because I was feeling so warmed to the heart and magical.

I'm definitely going to enable anyone who is thinking of making a trip. I'm not sure how to set up an LHC meet for it, but I would LOVE to share something like this with others who can understand what a wonderful thing it is. Even just being there is a magnificent experience, without the treatment or trim. I'll look into the Community Meet forums and see about it!

Madora
August 20th, 2014, 10:48 AM
This whole thread is making me smile :-)

I went last February and also had Agnes and Clara. I am now considering myself even luckier for that experience finding out that Clara might have retired. They were very sweet and could tell I was a first-time visitor... I guess it was obvious I was awestruck ;-) I didn't know as much at the time about the salon's history and Dr. Michael's philosophy so I asked Agnes a bit and she was nice enough to fill me in and bring out those books... which really did take my breath away.

Looking around, I could see many repeat customers who were, as you said Madora, kind of blase but were connected with their stylists. Agnes told me about another woman there who had lost her long hair to breast cancer but was there that day to help plan out her regrowth. That really touched my heart.

The full treatment plus the shampoo and conditioner cost me about $250. I know the trim was $80 and the products cost about $30 if that helps anyone figure out the relatively current costs.

I do plan to make it a yearly treat for myself around my birthday... I ended up getting a parking ticket but didn't even care because I was feeling so warmed to the heart and magical.

I'm definitely going to enable anyone who is thinking of making a trip. I'm not sure how to set up an LHC meet for it, but I would LOVE to share something like this with others who can understand what a wonderful thing it is. Even just being there is a magnificent experience, without the treatment or trim. I'll look into the Community Meet forums and see about it!

Syren_Curls...man, you really know how to make a senior citizen envious!!! I LOVED hearing about your time at the GM salon but GADZOOKS!!!
Wow, have those prices gone WAY UP!!!!! Holy cow. I noticed on the Enchantress site the price of the Pink Crème shampoo is $25.00. WOW. I'm so happy you had Agnes and Clara! I just can't sing the praises of Clara enough! What a treasure she was. I hope the GM folks gave her a grand send off!

By the way, I'm dying to know, do they have color pictures up on the wall? I've only been to the old (original) salon at 420 Madison. I visited the new digs..but just to say hi to Maria. I didn't have time for a treatment (back in 2003). I'm very curious to see if they kept the tradition of the photos on the wall.

In conclusion, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE your enthusiasm about Mr. Michael and his products. I wish more people had a chance to experience the GM expertise. They are wonderful folks and know what they're doing...and a salon like GM's is very, very rare in this world. They live by their motto "If you have long hair we love you; if you want to grow it long, we help you!"

meteor
August 20th, 2014, 10:50 AM
That's amazingly useful information, Madora! :D Thank you so very much! :flowers:

I'm really intrigued about that 3-braided bun you mentioned. What is it? Is it like a sectioned braided bun: where you do a braided bun, and wrap it with 2 more braids? Or is it a bun made out of 3 braids braided together? Or is it something else completely? :)

Isilme
August 20th, 2014, 11:30 AM
I think there is a GM salon in Stockholm, or at least have been. Have to check it out, unfortunately the website doesn't work. That doesn't bode well.

Gertrude
August 20th, 2014, 02:17 PM
In all of Europe a German cosmetics firm has a George Michael license to make all the products originally in the NY salon and others. http://www.george-michael.de/en/ if anyone wants to read more. In German speaking countries hairdressers interested in selling the products and learning the GM system can be trained by the company. The products only retail in salons and are recommended like medical prescriptions. The classic products are exactly the same as NY. They are astronomically expensive. The average price per shampoo or other product is just under $ 50.- I haven't ever been to a German GM salon but it's one section of a larger mainstream salon. It's like Chanel; the perfume company owns the fashion house now. There must be one heck of a mark-up for the product makers.

In the London salon the owner was trained directly by George Michael himself and worked with him for quite some time. He ran the long hair salon in other high end London salons as a speciality, and now runs it in a salon he at least part owns again as a special section. According to him the German firm markets really well in the home market but doesn't really support the salons outside it in Europe.

I also own the George Michael's secrets to beautiful hair book. The classic GM products are very like Clairol products used to be in the 1980s. He was the consultant for Clairol back then for a while. There isn't anything in the products you can't get in other drugstore options. Well, the baby powder smell probably not.

The recommended routine is six visits a year, for six dry trims, and they are just plain great trims, and three treatments. They are lovely, relaxing treatments of terrific pampering and take a long time. You arrive there's gentle shampooing and then the one hour treatment followed by rinsing, combing out and setting on large rollers. Then the hood dryer which takes, in my case, almost as long as air drying my hair. One and a half hours. Then the trim. Hours! and very relaxing. Trims are £ 63.- about $ 105, treatment and trim is £ 163.- about $ 270.- Doesn't include any products. GM recommends the same in his book. Going less often is accepted and no pressure to increase frequency.

They only do a blunt, very slight U shape. Essentially the hair same length front and back. The technique of trimming makes for very full ends and I have found, no splitting at the ends for months after. Different from main stream salons. if you are growing it's essentially dusting, 1/4 inch but if your growth was uneven slightly more in places.

I am okay with the salon treatment as a one off, but using the products more often my skin rebels. No sales pressure. My very fine hair was automatically assumed oily and in need of frequent washing. In terms of updos they do include back combing and lots of hairspray. Or at least if you have a fine texture.

The real sticking point for me, or rather something we will have to work out, is that GM considered there are perfect hair lengths. In his book he says that any client at his salon who has hair between lengths is growing out to the next perfect length. There's the flip, shoulder, BSL widest part of rib cage, Waist- length. Now women with very long hair come in, way beyond those lengths, and get a warm welcome and a great pampering and result like Madora. And no pressure to cut to an approved length. But the " Perfect Length" for my hair to grow to is BSL. There's also a GM theory that your hair is not easier to put up because it's longer, more of it, but because at any Perfect Length it puts up magically. My happy length is midway between BSL and WL. For many people the mid back abyss, but for me it's happy hair. Long enough to put up in more styles, and still blunt. Personal choice but on me fairy tale ends look awful.

I hope that the answer will be that I shall be forever " growing to waist length" but maintaining for now at my chosen point. Because I would hate to lose the trims, and miss the super relaxation, far better than a massage or facial. of the treatment every so often. I will no doubt vent on this site if I get pressure to stay at BSL because it is my Perfect Length. Because I won't; it's my hair and there are many good products and routines out there to grow long, beautiful hair.

Madora
August 20th, 2014, 02:30 PM
Gertrude, thanks so much for all the information. I never knew about the GM salons and such in Europe, except that Mr. Ward worked in London, and that there was a branch in Zurich.

If you're happy with your length, that's the main thing! Mr. Michael admitted in his book that he learned other techniques from his clients. He did have a method of dealing with adding volume..the French lacing, which was the only type of teasing he allowed in his salon. He described it as "Using a light, natural bristle brush, take a small strand of hair, hold it straight up and working underneath the strand, brush slightly from the scalp to the ends. Then take another small strand, lifting only a few hairs at a time and continue this pattern. This gives more puffiness and isn't damaging to the hair. But remember, when you try to comb your hair after a French lacing, you must always start at the tips to smooth it out, not from the roots, to avoid damage".

Gertrude
August 20th, 2014, 03:17 PM
Thanks so much Madora! I hope I wasn't whining too much up there. And yes, now that you mention it it is French Lacing to create volume. But I found it is done really fast, with a brush, so fantastic tangles. Just used lots of conditioner and my rake comb and patience.

I suppose my issue really is that in the London GM salon gets ladies with wonderful, thick and strong hair. Like yours. Thud-worthy. Often very long. Long gorgeous hair. And I have noticed, miaow, on some of those ladies, not always with super long hair, same length as mine, after their trims he can't resist doing a braid or whatever. As a free extra.

I am actually happy with my hair. And I do appreciate that it is never suggested to cut it into that famous bob that makes my hair three times as thick (-; or to put some layers in for volume. But it is still a " problem " to have very fine hair. So it certainly feels. I, thanks to all the wisdom here and the many tutorials, can put my hair up without needing to use hair spray. There aren't many styles or hair toys that hold for more than an hour, but there are. It is naturally shiny and silky. It is what it is. Not less than , but different.

And I am due to go for a trim in mid September and I have reached the supposed maximum length for my hair by then, and I do want another 3 or 4 inches. So there. I am a bit nervous. And it's so strange. The slogan of If you have long hair we love you...............I never did expect that a GM salon of all places would say " that's long enough for you! ". I expect it will be fine.

And I am duly grateful for the great trims. And heck, if I ran a long hair saloon, I would love hair I could just braid and do a crown braid with too! Wonderful hair Madora!

I think the only thing we have in common hair wise was that we were recommended, and bought, an expensive Kent BBB brush as GM recommended one. I love my BBB brush, but it's not the Kent. Ouch. But beautiful to display.

Gertrude
August 20th, 2014, 03:17 PM
Thanks so much Madora! I hope I wasn't whining too much up there. And yes, now that you mention it it is French Lacing to create volume. But I found it is done really fast, with a brush, so fantastic tangles. Just used lots of conditioner and my rake comb and patience.

I suppose my issue really is that in the London GM salon gets ladies with wonderful, thick and strong hair. Like yours. Thud-worthy. Often very long. Long gorgeous hair. And I have noticed, miaow, on some of those ladies, not always with super long hair, same length as mine, after their trims he can't resist doing a braid or whatever. As a free extra.

I am actually happy with my hair. And I do appreciate that it is never suggested to cut it into that famous bob that makes my hair three times as thick (-; or to put some layers in for volume. But it is still a " problem " to have very fine hair. So it certainly feels. I, thanks to all the wisdom here and the many tutorials, can put my hair up without needing to use hair spray. There aren't many styles or hair toys that hold for more than an hour, but there are. It is naturally shiny and silky. It is what it is. Not less than , but different.

And I am due to go for a trim in mid September and I have reached the supposed maximum length for my hair by then, and I do want another 3 or 4 inches. So there. I am a bit nervous. And it's so strange. The slogan of If you have long hair we love you...............I never did expect that a GM salon of all places would say " that's long enough for you! ". I expect it will be fine.

And I am duly grateful for the great trims. And heck, if I ran a long hair saloon, I would love hair I could just braid and do a crown braid with too! Wonderful hair Madora!

I think the only thing we have in common hair wise was that we were recommended, and bought, an expensive Kent BBB brush as GM recommended one. I love my BBB brush, but it's not the Kent. Ouch. But beautiful to display.

lunalocks
August 20th, 2014, 03:55 PM
My one GM experience was wonderful (Spring of 2013). Agnes took very good care of me while I had the works. I was there for hours and hours, all mporning. My hair has never been so smooth and straight.

Many of those pictures are of famous people and entertainers. One was Judy Collins (she was coming in the next day!) and Agnes told me that Art Garfunkel had been in the evening before, getting ready for a concert. She told me all about his new album. She also said she had not seen Crystal Gayle for quite some time.

I have to say that the best, very best thing that came out of my visit was, finally, obtaining 2 Madora combs. They are wonderful.

Madora
August 20th, 2014, 04:10 PM
My one GM experience was wonderful (Spring of 2013). Agnes took very good care of me while I had the works. I was there for hours and hours, all mporning. My hair has never been so smooth and straight.

Many of those pictures are of famous people and entertainers. One was Judy Collins (she was coming in the next day!) and Agnes told me that Art Garfunkel had been in the evening before, getting ready for a concert. She told me all about his new album. She also said she had not seen Crystal Gayle for quite some time.

I have to say that the best, very best thing that came out of my visit was, finally, obtaining 2 Madora combs. They are wonderful.

Thanks so much for sharing your GM story, lunalocks! I loved hearing that you had Agnes too and that the pictures are up on the wall so everyone can enjoy them. I've always wondered if Crystal Gale came to the GM salon much. GM mentioned her in a newsletter (1988). He was her hair consultant on a Christmas show she was filming in Sweden (with David Hasselhoff). I don't know if it was ever shown in the US or not.

Glad you're enjoying your Madora combs. They look beautiful. I was very tempted but learned they were shorter than what I used. I'm also used to a handle on my comb, so splurged on a nice SPEERT comb instead.

Madora
August 20th, 2014, 04:26 PM
Thanks so much Madora! I hope I wasn't whining too much up there. And yes, now that you mention it it is French Lacing to create volume. But I found it is done really fast, with a brush, so fantastic tangles. Just used lots of conditioner and my rake comb and patience.

I suppose my issue really is that in the London GM salon gets ladies with wonderful, thick and strong hair. Like yours. Thud-worthy. Often very long. Long gorgeous hair. And I have noticed, miaow, on some of those ladies, not always with super long hair, same length as mine, after their trims he can't resist doing a braid or whatever. As a free extra.

I am actually happy with my hair. And I do appreciate that it is never suggested to cut it into that famous bob that makes my hair three times as thick (-; or to put some layers in for volume. But it is still a " problem " to have very fine hair. So it certainly feels. I, thanks to all the wisdom here and the many tutorials, can put my hair up without needing to use hair spray. There aren't many styles or hair toys that hold for more than an hour, but there are. It is naturally shiny and silky. It is what it is. Not less than , but different.

And I am due to go for a trim in mid September and I have reached the supposed maximum length for my hair by then, and I do want another 3 or 4 inches. So there. I am a bit nervous. And it's so strange. The slogan of If you have long hair we love you...............I never did expect that a GM salon of all places would say " that's long enough for you! ". I expect it will be fine.

And I am duly grateful for the great trims. And heck, if I ran a long hair saloon, I would love hair I could just braid and do a crown braid with too! Wonderful hair Madora!

I think the only thing we have in common hair wise was that we were recommended, and bought, an expensive Kent BBB brush as GM recommended one. I love my BBB brush, but it's not the Kent. Ouch. But beautiful to display.

No, you were not whining, Gertrude. You are entitled to say what you think, just like the rest of us!

I'm surprised that the ladies got a free braid done. But it was nice of him to do it.

So glad you don't need to rely on hairspray for updos! It makes me cringe, just thinking about it.

I am confused, Gertrude. Do YOU have your own maximum length or is someone at the salon telling you that you cannot grow it beyond a certain length?? The idea that a GM salon employee would tell you "That's long enough for you" is preposterous! Since when does one have to conform to another person's idea of what is right or wrong when it comes to hair length! That is totally wrong! I'm sorry you had such a boorish comment!

Sigh: GM hairbrush recommendations...I believed the hype and purchased the supposed (at that time) Cadillac of hairbrushes, an $80.00 Kent of London pure boar bristle brush. It was a thing of beauty...but it hated my hair. I was so disappointed! Good luck with your trim in September!

Madora
August 20th, 2014, 04:39 PM
That's amazingly useful information, Madora! :D Thank you so very much! :flowers:

I'm really intrigued about that 3-braided bun you mentioned. What is it? Is it like a sectioned braided bun: where you do a braided bun, and wrap it with 2 more braids? Or is it a bun made out of 3 braids braided together? Or is it something else completely? :)
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w225/07Erzbet/J11a.jpg (http://s177.photobucket.com/user/07Erzbet/media/J11a.jpg.html)


Meteor, you're right on the money. The 3 braided bun is a sectioned bun. Done just like the double braided bun. I had TONS of hair back in the day, so I decided to do a 3 braid bun that day.

Funny story about that pic: That year (1984 I think) was a big anniversary for Dr. Michael's salon. People came in from all over the world to have their hair done. I didn't know about the anniversary and had scheduled my long awaited appointment for early in the morning.

Everything went thru fine and my hair was let down, trimmed and brushed. Another lady happened to finish at about the same time. All of a sudden a flock of photographers appeared and started taking pictures of our hair (in conjunction with articles that were being written for different hair magazines..primarily in Europe). Well, with all the flashes going off, I felt like a Beatle!

I got out of the chair and went to braid my hair as shown in the pic. Mr. Michael called the photographers over and said something like "Why don't you take a picture of this?" indicating my updo...but they were more interested in getting the length pictures from other ladies who were finishing their treatments. I left the salon, practically walking on air. Earlier that day Agnes had complimented me, saying how "handy" I was with my hair. That pleased me no end, too!

meteor
August 20th, 2014, 05:02 PM
Awesome information! :flower: Madora, Gertrude, lunalocks: do you guys know if they used GM "12-minute conditioner" during your 1-hour treatment or was it something else?
The 6 visits per year sounds a bit excessive - that's a trim every 2 months! Did they use special scissors (and are they for sale?), since the GM trim seems a lot better quality than standard salon trims?
How do GM combs compare to wooden combs? Do they create static at all, since they are plastic?

Thank you very much! :)

meteor
August 20th, 2014, 05:05 PM
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w225/07Erzbet/J11a.jpg (http://s177.photobucket.com/user/07Erzbet/media/J11a.jpg.html)


Oh my goodness! Madora, your hair is sooooooo thud-worthy! :thudpile:
I LOVE your updo!!! :D

Madora
August 20th, 2014, 06:26 PM
Thanks a lot, Meteor.

When I was there, they did not sell scissors. The Madora comb, back then, was called "The Maria" and was a faux tortoishell comb with no handle. The ivory Madora comb on sale now looks lovely indeed, but it is too short compared to what I'm used to, and it does not have a handle, which I prefer. JJJ Longhair, of the fabulous silky ultra long hair, uses the Madora Comb, as does Heidi W.

I don't know if the conditioner they used was the 12 minute or not. I tend to think it was...since it was kept on the head for one hour before rinsing out. They really slathered it on!

meteor
August 20th, 2014, 07:19 PM
Thank you so very much, Madora! :flower:

So in my quest for more information about Dr. George Michael, I found this fascinating article. It's full of really interesting, if pretty controversial, ideas. I find a lot of these ideas not scientifically supported at all, but it's an interesting read, regardless. :)

"Exclusive Interview With Dr. George Michael

By Jennifer Bahney

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. George Michael is the most fascinating and knowledgeable person I've ever talked to about long hair -- bar none. While talking with him by phone from his home in Florida, I found that it was important to understand the man first before trying to understand his passion for long hair.

George Michael Selisky was born to Russian nobility long before Lenin, Stalin, and communism took over his beloved land. His mother was an opera singer with incredible floor-length hair. As a child, he would watch his mother and his aunts brush out their magnificent manes and create intricate updos before entertaining in their extravagant halls. But, the Russian Revolution soon caught up with them and George's entire family was killed by the ruthless Stalin. Somehow, young George was the only one to escape.

George attended medical school and was drafted into the Russian Army. He moved up to lieutenant commander and then became a major at the age of 23. But George was captured by the Nazis during World War II and spent two years as a prisoner of war in a Nazi concentration camp.

The years 1943 to 1945 were some of the most difficult of young George's life. He watched beautiful European women with waist-length and longer hair forced into warehouses only to emerge with completely shaven heads. According to Dr. Michael, it was the Nazis way of "breaking" their prisoners and taking away their identities. But, Dr. Michael told me, the women still held their heads high, unwilling to succumb to the Nazi's attempts at humiliation.

American troops eventually freed George and he decided to move to the United States with just the clothes on his back. It was at this point that George Michael Selisky decided to drop his last name. He also decided to use his medical training to help women around the world grow the beautiful hair he had seen destroyed during the war.

Dr. Michael enrolled in beauty school and was told that as a doctor, he was much too overqualified to work on women's hair. He persisted, however, graduated, and rented two chairs at a New York City salon. He developed his own system, based on medical science, for growing and maintaining beautiful long hair. (click here for more on the George Michael system). In time, he had made enough money to buy his own salon. Dr. Michael's empire has grown ever since and today, at the age of 81, he owns some 2,000 salons around the world dedicated to long hair.

One of the major questions I asked Dr. Michael during our phone conversation was, "Is it possible to have long, healthy hair in your 30s, 40s, 50s, and beyond?" His answer was a qualified "yes!", but he explained that there are conditions attached.

First of all, Dr. Michael explained that the most important step for growing the longest, healthiest hair possible is to have hair that's all one length. That means absolutely no bangs (or "fringe", to our European friends). Dr. Michael told me, "Bangs are like worms!", which I took to mean they're a pretty bad thing. Fortunately, he explained what he meant.

"Hair is not at its strongest with bangs or layers," Dr. Michael said. "Because humans are mammals, nature will try to equalize the hair by excessively shedding in order to even out all the shorter hairs. This creates an abnormal loss of hair which leads to unhealthy, straggly locks."

Dr. Michael also explained that people, especially women, with blunt-cut long hair have the strongest, healthiest hair possible.

"The longer the hair, the stronger the root," Dr. Michael said. "That's because the root has to work more to support the length. And stronger hair is healthier hair that falls out less."

To prove this point, Dr. Michael says hair that's cut in a 4-inch style may lose up to 87 hairs a day; hair that's 12-inches long loses up to 26 hairs a day; waist-length hair loses 16 hairs a day, and floor-length hair loses just two hairs a day.

As far as growing hair faster, Dr. Michael says, "Hair typically grows just 6 inches per year. I know of just three places in the world where women grow more than half-an-inch per month: Tehuantepec, Mexico; the Piedmont Province of northern Italy, and in parts of Minnesota. Those areas lack iodine in the water, which causes severe thyroid disfunctions including bulging eyes and horrible weight gain. But, their hair is known to grow up to 6 inches per month."

They also shed their hair 60 times during their lifetime, as opposed to healthy people who shed most during six periods in our lifetimes: from birth to age three; at 10, 22, 26, 36, and 54. These "shedding times" are all related to hormonal changes in our bodies and are the body's way of ensuring a six-inch growth rate per year; no more, no less.

So, how does one go about growing out those pesky bangs?

"The hair grows from left to right on your forehead. Part your hair on the left as your bangs grow out. Once they're long enough, part your hair on the right so your hair does 'push-ups' and doesn't appear flat. Once your bangs reach chin-length, you'll notice a serious reduction in fall-out."

As for my question about long hair and age, Dr. Michael told me, "Age is irrelevant. With long hair, a woman's beauty is timeless."
http://justrelaxed.wordpress.com/2013/07/09/exclusive-interview-with-dr-george-michael/
http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/archive/index.php/t-24977.html

LauraLongLocks
August 20th, 2014, 08:01 PM
meteor, that was really great reading! Thanks for posting.

Madora, I love that you started this thread, and shared so many great pictures.

DreamGoil, also loved your posts.

Everyone else who contributed, thanks! This was fascinating reading. I wish I could afford to travel to one of these salons, but I can't at this point in my life. Definitely growing out my bangs, though!

lunalocks
August 20th, 2014, 08:08 PM
OK. Some answers. The conditioning treatment "goop" they use in the salon is NOT the same as the 12 minute treatment. Agnes said they only have that in the salon and have it made up in huge vats but do not sell it. The 12 minute treatment comes close, she said.

The combs I have are just shy of 7 inches long and 2.5 inches wide. No handles. I have an ivory and a tortoiseshell. I love, LOVE them. The ivory one never leaves home. Of course it is plastic of some kind, but it LOOKS like ivory. "Hand made in Switzerland" is stamped on it. I used wooden combs before, but remembered how abrasive paper is so stopped using them.

I have bangs. Agnes didn't touch them. Her only comment was that if I let them grow out, the rest of my hair would be so much thicker. (of course it would with 1.5inch width of bangs. But I have had them all my life and I always will.)

The salon was much smaller than I thought it would be. Maybe 3 chairs. For the longest time I was the only client there. Before I left 3 others came in. One was a lady in her 70s with longer than waist white hair. Beautiful. I kept peeking to see just how long it was but never could see. When I was leaving she was in curlers. When I told her I had been admiring her hair, she told me that she had been admiring MINE! One of the nicest compliments ever.

Inching Along
August 20th, 2014, 10:23 PM
This has been really great. I am very much enjoying this thread! I want to go to the GM salon! Would love it to be a LHC meetup. Sigh. Must save my pennies...

Majorane
August 21st, 2014, 12:34 AM
Not to bash the guru in his own topic, but the whole 'bangs slow you down' and 'in Minnesota they grow 6 inches per month' - eh? Am I really so ignorant as to not know these wisdoms, or does the good man has a slight lapse every once in a while?

If not so, I have family in Minneapolis, and will move there asap.

Crumpet
August 21st, 2014, 06:51 AM
Great thread and some wonderful Long Hair Memories here. Thanks for starting Madora! Its also always a treat when we get to see more photos of your beautiful hair. I'm not surprised that GM thought it lovely.

I have been wanting to go to the NY GM salon for some time now. I may book an appointment this winter. I feel a bit shy about taking my hair in to a GM salon. Its thin and fine, only waist-length. and I'm growing out layers (I didn't want them, but STILL). It would be fun to talk with them about growing out my hair and also see some other lovely long hair instead of just the lovely virtual photos I see on the LHC.

Madora
August 21st, 2014, 07:48 AM
Meteor, thanks for sharing the GM article. I remember seeing it somewhere...a while ago. A lot of the same info is in his book.
@LauraLongLocks, glad you enjoyed the thread. Dr. Michael would be so happy to hear you're growing out your bangs!
Lunalocks wrote:

OK. Some answers. The conditioning treatment "goop" they use in the salon is NOT the same as the 12 minute treatment. Agnes said they only have that in the salon and have it made up in huge vats but do not sell it. The 12 minute treatment comes close, she said.

The combs I have are just shy of 7 inches long and 2.5 inches wide. No handles. I have an ivory and a tortoiseshell. I love, LOVE them. The ivory one never leaves home. Of course it is plastic of some kind, but it LOOKS like ivory. "Hand made in Switzerland" is stamped on it. I used wooden combs before, but remembered how abrasive paper is so stopped using them.

I have bangs. Agnes didn't touch them. Her only comment was that if I let them grow out, the rest of my hair would be so much thicker. (of course it would with 1.5inch width of bangs. But I have had them all my life and I always will.)

The salon was much smaller than I thought it would be. Maybe 3 chairs. For the longest time I was the only client there. Before I left 3 others came in. One was a lady in her 70s with longer than waist white hair. Beautiful. I kept peeking to see just how long it was but never could see. When I was leaving she was in curlers. When I told her I had been admiring her hair, she told me that she had been admiring MINE! One of the nicest compliments ever.

Thanks for the info about the "goop", lunalocks! Very interesting! Was very sad to read that there are only 3 chairs in the new Long Hair Heaven salon. There were at least 7 workstations at the old address...tons of space..and they were very busy. When I visited Maria in 2003 and looked about the place I had a sinking feeling because it was long and narrow, the lighting wasn't the greatest...and it was quiet as a graveyard. Such a change from my last visit to the old address! Now, reading about those prices, it makes me wonder how much of a "go" they can made of it...what with NY rents probably going thru the ceiling...and everything else they have to pay to stay in business. Long hair care is such a special niche...one wonders how they can stay afloat, given what they charge now.

How nice that you were complimented on your hair!

Crumpet wrote:

Great thread and some wonderful Long Hair Memories here. Thanks for starting Madora! Its also always a treat when we get to see more photos of your beautiful hair. I'm not surprised that GM thought it lovely.

I have been wanting to go to the NY GM salon for some time now. I may book an appointment this winter. I feel a bit shy about taking my hair in to a GM salon. Its thin and fine, only waist-length. and I'm growing out layers (I didn't want them, but STILL). It would be fun to talk with them about growing out my hair and also see some other lovely long hair instead of just the lovely virtual photos I see on the LHC.

Thanks very much, Crumpet! Please, don't feel shy about going to GM. They see all types and lengths of hair there. You don't have to be an "ultra" long hair to enjoy the services! They are very welcoming! Maybe you'll even get to see those long hair books that Syren_Curls mentioned!

meteor
August 21st, 2014, 09:28 AM
Not to bash the guru in his own topic, but the whole 'bangs slow you down' and 'in Minnesota they grow 6 inches per month' - eh? Am I really so ignorant as to not know these wisdoms, or does the good man has a slight lapse every once in a while?

If not so, I have family in Minneapolis, and will move there asap.

I completely agree with you, Majorane! :thumbsup:
This interview is a good example that shows that even people who may grow their own or other people's hair to amazing lengths and condition, do not necessarily have a great grasp of the science.
And the other way round: I've seen many interviews with trichologists with pixies and short bobs - but they really know the science of hair!

So yes, it's important to always check the facts, stay skeptical, and never trust any guru blindly.

I'm still extremely grateful for Dr George Michael's contribution to popularizing long hair care in salon/hair-dressing industry. :D

Majorane
August 21st, 2014, 09:40 AM
Oh absolutely, and I wasn't in the least suggesting he wouldn't have been a great visionary on long hair care, but these ideas seemed a bit.... well, revolutionary, shall we say, eh?

I'd still LOVE to go into a special longhair salon for treatment as described above, in the future. When my hair is actually long. It sounds amazing. And who cares what the founder of the salon thought of my fringe. By the sound of it he'd have been way to polite to mention it, and anyway I like it.

And I want to have a vat of the goop they put in your hair. A full VAT! Imagine that sitting in your basement, waiting to be SMT'ed. Swoon!

Majorane
August 21st, 2014, 09:46 AM
Oh absolutely, and I wasn't in the least suggesting he wouldn't have been a great visionary on long hair care, but these ideas seemed a bit.... well, revolutionary, shall we say, eh?

I'd still LOVE to go into a special longhair salon for treatment as described above, in the future. When my hair is actually long. It sounds amazing. And who cares what the founder of the salon thought of my fringe. By the sound of it he'd have been way to polite to mention it, and anyway I like it.

And I want to have a vat of the goop they put in your hair. A full VAT! Imagine that sitting in your basement, waiting to be SMT'ed. Swoon!

Crumpet
August 21st, 2014, 10:39 AM
Thanks for the encouragement Madora! I'll probably give the GM salon a try sometime late this autumn/winter. It just sounds too amazing not to be tried!

Madora
August 21st, 2014, 11:24 AM
Thanks for the encouragement Madora! I'll probably give the GM salon a try sometime late this autumn/winter. It just sounds too amazing not to be tried!

If you do, Crumpet, please (if you don't mind) tell us all about it! I love reading about other long hairs' visits to GM (Long Hair Heaven). Ask for Agnes!

Syren_Curls
August 21st, 2014, 07:36 PM
Madora, they definitely do still have the pictures on the walls! I was mesmerized :-) And also very inspired -- still am :-) As for envious... It's a good thing you're not seeing the green over here at your gorgeous 3 braided bun and the story you shared about the picture! I'm still working on a sectioned double-braided bun you shared in one of my first LHC posts. (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=121922&page=2&p=2698873#post2698873)

Crumpet... I understand your hesitation and I am glad you are feeling encouraged by the comments here. I would like to share with you that, when I went, it was during my pre-LHC days. I had scraggly ends that were completely uneven (and I never noticed *how* bad they were until Agnes showed me how tentacle-like they were!) with fairly recent layers and bangs that I was just starting to grow out. My hair length was around hip with the scraggly ends but the thicker bulk of the ends were several inches up from that. And I have fine hair on top of it. No one there once made me feel as though I should not be there. There was a respect for and attentiveness to my hair, whatever condition it was in, as well as the fact that I cared enough to come in and treat it to something special. When I was done, most people in the salon, including other staff, gave me complimentary smiles, even though I still had layers, bangs, and length between my lower back and waist after the cut. I genuinely got the sense that all hair lengths, preferences, conditions, and styles are welcomed warmly in there. Agnes herself had her hair in the shoulder/APL length range :-)

I can sincerely say that I have literally never felt more beautiful in my life. And it was a cold, dreary Saturday morning with me dressed in my version of "I-need-a-pick-me-up clothes" and no-makeup. I am also known for avoiding mirrors as often as I can get away with it (needless to say, I'm a bit shy) and I could not stop looking in mirrors that entire day and several days after. For them to regard me in that way and to treat me, with my scraggly ends, layers, bangs, and fine hair, in such a way that left me feeling so wonderful says a lot about their openness and high esteem for all kinds of hair :-) And I think everyone deserves that kind of special treat ;-)

As for some of the science and sources behind growing hair... The scientist in me (makes a rare appearance!) wishes I had access to the research that made Dr. Michael say that there are only three places in the world where hair grows more than half an inch in a month and that most people only shed their hair six times a year. From the story of his life experiences, it sounds like he didn't make statements about hair flippantly and I am curious what his observations and assessments were based on. Part of me believes there might be a kernel of truth to *some* aspect of his statements but I also feel like there might be some information that is either missing or misattributed or something. I would love to get a sense of it and make a determination for myself. That might be a good and enabling reason for me to get his book and look into it a bit further :-)

Crumpet
August 21st, 2014, 07:46 PM
Syren-Curls -- thank you so much for the encouragement! I'm probably like you in that I've always been a bit shy about my looks (hate having photos taken and the like) so I'm a bit paranoid about going to THE haven for long hair. I do want the experience at some point though.

Madora -- thanks also for the encouragement. I'll definitely document it if I go. Its something I've wanted to do for a while so I'll want to share it with all of you!

Syren_Curls
August 21st, 2014, 08:10 PM
Whenever you do go, Crumpet, I too will be excited to see and hear about your documentation!

I've started the thread about an LHC meet at the GM salons here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=125591&p=2801571#post2801571) for anyone who would like to explore :-)

Madora
August 21st, 2014, 09:10 PM
Crumpet..and anyone else: check out some of the before/after pics of a GM treatment at the Facebook page of the Bev. Hills GM salon: https://www.facebook.com/GeorgeMichaelBeverlyHills

Click on the word "photos" and you'll see the pics. The pics are also seen if you scroll down thru the "timeline" feature.

Gertrude
August 22nd, 2014, 04:33 AM
George Michael WAS a revolutionary. When he set about opening his long hair salon after looking after long hair in his hairdressing career, post WWII in the US, hair had not been long since the Edwardian Era.
Yes, some women had long hair and didn't cut it. Recently there was a video here on a thread about a long hair competition from the late 1920s. It was essentially a freak show. Hair was not long. The whole wealth of experience that hairdressers had about caring for long hair, oiling and treatments for long hair, putting up very long hair had passed from living memory.

The hippies of the 1960s presented long hair for women and also men. It caused uproar and a lot of reactionary hatred of it. Because it was a visible symbol of the times that were achanging. I was a change of life baby and not in all honesty wanted, and my parents hated long hair. On women. On men it was an abomination. I can't think of any of my mother's friends, born in the 1920s who ever had long hair.

George Michael was a bit warm-hearted charismatic hair dressing guru. He came from Europe, and told a tall tale but he surely came from Eastern Europe having seen horrors. Also surely he had learned long hair care at home in his family. Like Helena Rubinstein took the skin care wisdom of her Eastern European family to the US. It was before t'interweb. European women were sold cosmetics and fashions as being from the USA where female consumers were savvy, stylish, modern and not dictated to by men. American women got the whole mystique of European cosmetics and fashions and the wisdom dating back to the Romans and what not. The products didn't have ingredients on, until recently that American rule hadn't arrived in Europe, and were exactly the same.

So GM was harmless and ambitious and also vain. Well, so what? He was very good at what he did, and then it was unique. Long hair without the hippy look, and looked after in a swish Manhattan salon. The first of many swish salons. GM liked luxury.

The science is fanciful and very embellished and there's no scientist in me. Like Helena Rubinstein's face creams costing a fortune so do the GM products. Any salon client needs to bring in $ 800. a year, and in Manhattan or Mayfair, very Monopoly board, a lot more. In NY I think they have the advantage that the USA is very big, and many women come for a once in a lifetime experience while on a trip. Purely my imagination. In Europe there are no all GM salons. It doesn't pay.

I get the impression that clients are getting older in London, not that I have been that often over the three years, but it's far harder to get new clients. Not because there is no long hair. In London, unlike the provinces, almost every woman has long hair , certainly still SL when older and you see lots of hair sticks and up dos in the centre of town. But with the internet, the real science of hair that has come along since, cosmetics being formulated by qualified chemists and us all being able to read what's in the wonder cream it's harder to defend the GM theories. Also Mr Ward is in his mid sixties, very young with it, but it's a question if GM in London will ultimately carry on. Also because times have changed and the knowledge about long hair is back.

And I am not young, I am 43, and skeptical and don't want to part my hair where it falls in my face as I can't train the small muscles that make your hair stand on end, they're involuntary, and I know there are lots of good products for hair but my hair can't heal like a broken leg. Not with any product. Or brush my fine hair 100 times and certainly not upside down.

And I want to grow my hair as long as I can grow it, and keep it without it looking ragged, and not stop at BSL because GM prescribes it. So I am skeptical, which is a shame as it IS a wonderful experience and it is still unique to be able to have your hair cut and feel completely safe. It is really a wonderful caring and pampering experience. GM clearly loved women's hair and loved women, in a good way, he loved his mama and her hair and made them feel a million dollars.

The treatment is heavy in quats, and does produce great shine. It doesn't last but you can replicate with whatever conditioner works for you.

The trim is in two parts. One is professional S&D while you sit down, the other is standing for the trim. It's not in the scissors. It's the very skilled technique to cut the hair so the inner is very slightly shorter, mms, and the top layer fractionally longer. It makes the hair look fuller and also pull together.

All bangs and layers are S&D'd but not trimmed.


And one last top tip from my soap box if you can have only one thing, have the trim. And if the S&D is important to you do not have it after the treatment as the treatment temporarily fuses splits down the lengths. He always finds more when it is just the trim.

two_wheels
August 22nd, 2014, 04:44 AM
I've read this whole thread and it sounds amazing. I know my hair needs tidying up, not too many splits but grown-out layers are all over the place. I think I will let it grow to BSL and then go as my prize for being patient :)

(To the London one, not NYC!)

Sarahlabyrinth
August 22nd, 2014, 04:48 AM
Yes, a visit to one of his salons is likely to be a once in a lifetime treat for me! At those prices too, and the exchange rates too, but I bet it is worth it! Do they allow the hair to show its natural wave, thought, or do they straighten it with rollers?

Crumpet
August 22nd, 2014, 07:31 AM
Thanks for the photos Madora! I was encouraged to see some people with shorter and less-thick hair than I was imagining. The before-and-after shots were amazing.

I agree that his 'science' is not accurate (I'm from a family of scientists and also in a hybrid science field), BUT some of what he does is right on. As Gertrude says, its still a rarity to be able to go into a salon with long hair and feel safe. It also a pleasure to have hair styled without damaging techniques. I would really like this on occasion as a nice pampering session once in a blue moon.

Santi
August 22nd, 2014, 07:40 AM
Madora, your hair is beautiful! You have a captivating way of sharing your knowledge & experiences.

Thanks again for sharing Ktani's blog.

Madora
August 22nd, 2014, 09:06 AM
Yes, a visit to one of his salons is likely to be a once in a lifetime treat for me! At those prices too, and the exchange rates too, but I bet it is worth it! Do they allow the hair to show its natural wave, thought, or do they straighten it with rollers?

Oh, gracious, Sarahlabyrinth! For a moment your last sentence gave me pause.

Yes, those rollers they use are placed strategically around the head in a certain pattern. When they are taken out and the hair is brushed, your hair looks like a mirror...straight, smoothy, shiny, silky, with just a hint of a flip at the bottom. It's glorious..but it doesn't last forever!

Madora
August 22nd, 2014, 09:09 AM
Madora, your hair is beautiful! You have a captivating way of sharing your knowledge & experiences.

Thanks again for sharing the information on Ktani's blog.

Thanks so much, Santi. I'm glad you enjoyed my posts. Everything I know about long hair, I learned from Dr. Michael. As for Ktani, well, all I can say is that next to Dr. Michael, she's the ONLY person I would trust my hair to! Her mineral oil tips have proven a real blessing when it comes to detangling. I can't sing her praises enough!

meteor
August 22nd, 2014, 10:34 AM
I can see how his idea about one-length cut keeping hair stronger, more protected would make sense. With one length, you expose your weakest part of hair (the ends!) to the elements less than you would if you had layers. I have a feeling that hair is what protects hair the best, kind of like a silk scarf on top of your head is protective. Which is why canopy hair is often more weathered than nape hair (hidden underneath).


Yes, a visit to one of his salons is likely to be a once in a lifetime treat for me! At those prices too, and the exchange rates too, but I bet it is worth it! Do they allow the hair to show its natural wave, thought, or do they straighten it with rollers?

Honestly, I'd call them in advance about this. They set hair in rollers that will give a very specific texture for a short while. But I'm sure they'll accommodate to your tastes for the high prices they charge! I just went to their Facebook page and I saw some wavy before and straight after pictures. I have to admit, I liked the before pictures with natural texture more... Hmm.

And as for very textured, curly hair, salons like Ouidad and some salons specializing in ethnic hair care will probably do a great job with dry cuts and preserving the curl pattern.

SongofLove
August 22nd, 2014, 05:41 PM
I can see how his idea about one-length cut keeping hair stronger, more protected would make sense. With one length, you expose your weakest part of hair (the ends!) to the elements less than you would if you had layers. I have a feeling that hair is what protects hair the best, kind of like a silk scarf on top of your head is protective. Which is why canopy hair is often more weathered than nape hair (hidden underneath).

Yeah, totally! Plus, when I have bangs, I have to wash 'em almost every day or they look greasy, and with all that extra handling, I'd think those bang hairs are shedding more than the length.

Syren_Curls
August 26th, 2014, 01:49 PM
I had a chance to speak to Vinnie at the GM salon a few days ago and she did verify that Clara had retired... she did say that everyone who is still there has been there for 30+ years, so whoever else will be filling Clara's shoes, I imagine, will be great :-)

Gertrude, thank you for giving that contextual information. It helps me put things into better perspective and consider the impact of time in a more relevant and meaningful way. That seems to be, for me, the thing that was missing :-)

PrincessBob
August 27th, 2014, 04:39 PM
Much as I would love the experience and think it would be nice to be pampered, I doubt I would ever be able to afford their prices. I haven't had a salon cut more than a dozen times in my life, and then never spent more than the $15 special. :lol: My aunt was a hair dresser (of dubious talent where thick hair is concerned) and she and my gran took turns trimming my hair over winter and summer breaks when I was in school. I always hated having others wash and comb my hair, because of the tender scalp issues, but it sounds so nice and relaxing. If I win a big lottery jackpot, though, I am so going to go to the one in California.

Teufelchen
August 28th, 2014, 01:13 AM
I only have been to a GM hair salon here in Germany once, and I enjoyed it very much. I also got the 1 hour treatment there, which is very high in protein. My hair is rather protein sensitive, but this is the only one, my hair loves, from time to time, ~ once a year.

They really pampered my hair, treated it with respect, and dusted my ends, even though I have a deep V shape, in the end my hair was just 5mm shorter and looked amazing.
They also sell the 1 hour treatment there to take it home and do it, yes it is expensive, but it is well worth it. I just use the cream rinse and this 1 hour treatment.

Gertrude
August 28th, 2014, 10:43 AM
I only have been to a GM hair salon here in Germany once, and I enjoyed it very much. I also got the 1 hour treatment there, which is very high in protein. My hair is rather protein sensitive, but this is the only one, my hair loves, from time to time, ~ once a year.

They really pampered my hair, treated it with respect, and dusted my ends, even though I have a deep V shape, in the end my hair was just 5mm shorter and looked amazing.
They also sell the 1 hour treatment there to take it home and do it, yes it is expensive, but it is well worth it. I just use the cream rinse and this 1 hour treatment.

Teufelchen,

Thanks so much for posting this. I know there are many more salons offering GM in Germany than the one in the UK and it's great that you can buy the one hour treatment there and that they just carefully and respectively do the GM trim on whatever hemline you have.

I wish there was competition here really. Not just the expense side of things , but the " text-book" approach of GM.

Teufelchen
August 29th, 2014, 01:38 AM
Gertrude, you are right with the competition, especially with the textbook approach. Even though it is a long hair salon, they also do short hair, just a different hair stylist. But I realy loved to see, that every hair and hair type was treated with respect. And everyone was very knowledable.