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ohiomom
September 21st, 2008, 06:29 PM
Looking for some advice. right now my hair is about 3 inches past my shoulders, with a layer that is about shoulder length. If I do not do anything to my hair...let it airdry, it dries very frizzy. I've tried to CO...for well over a month and I was just really greasy. I've tried plopping in the past to bring out waves and curls, but it didn't really work on my hair.
So, what I've been doing is washing my hair at night and letting it air dry, then in the AM before work I straighten it. but, it's so flat and blah then. Well the other day, instead of using the straightner, I used a large barrel curling iron. I liked the look. Today I went and got some velcro rollers, but them in my dry hair, sprayed with a bit of water and used the hair dryer for like 2-3 minutes to warm/dry. I loved the volume and lack of frizz! So, I"m thinking that a body wave/perm may give the same result without me having to deal with it every day. Am I right on that or no? I'm hoping that someone here who's had one before can help me out.
I have no idea what hair type I am. I would say my hair is fine, thin to medium, and a little wavey with frizzies! Thanks
Jamie

Country Cowcurl
September 21st, 2008, 06:50 PM
if i remember properly.....perming your hair still requires some "upkeep". i.e., you'll still have to battle it while it's wet with various styling products & whatnot. i think perming it will just create more damage than it's worth.....

maybe you could try using methods you can sleep in to curl your hair?? like rag curls, foam rollers, or those bendy cloth sticks (found at walmart, but i can't remember what they're called, lol)? those methods won't damage your hair AND they're quite easy to do.

Shanarana
September 21st, 2008, 08:00 PM
You will get more frizz with a perm. Not to mention the chemical damage that comes along with that. We tend to imagine nice bouncy curls with a perm, but changing the hair structure sometimes is just not worth it.

Dolly
September 21st, 2008, 08:13 PM
I used to perm my hair on a regular basis. Not only will you have more frizz, it will cause you to need more upkeep, and it will damage your hair. It will also notr giveyou the type of look you are wanting.

Check out rag rollers or some other rolers that you can put in your hair and sleep in. The curls in my avatar were done by using wrap snap n go curlers....it can be done, and with little to no damage to the hair.

spidermom
September 21st, 2008, 08:14 PM
Another problem with a perm is that there will be a noticeable difference between the new, nonpermed hair growing in and the perm. It looks bad on most people.

One good way to get smoothness and bounce is to put in a top-of-head ponytail, then roll the ends on sponge rollers overnight or perhaps electric rollers. Mine have a velvety covering, and I don't allow them to get too hot to handle. If they do, I know they will damage my hair. My goal length is long-long-long, so I don't want to have to cut off damage. Caruso steam rollers are supposed to be less damaging than other heat appliances. Velcro rollers are notorious for grabbing and ripping out hair.

Curling irons and straightening irons are terrible on hair. If it's too hot to press against the skin of your neck, it will be damaging to your hair.

Of course, if your goal isn't very long, and you don't mind getting regular trims to maintain good condition, then why not. Please fill out at least the current hair length and goal on your personal profile. You don't have to be as careful if your goal length is only armpit length, for example. If your goal is very long, best to experiment with things like aloe vera gel and oil to reduce frizz with air-drying and putting your hair up in buns, twists, and so forth.

FrannyG
September 21st, 2008, 08:18 PM
I could never in good conscience recommend a perm to anyone if they plan on growing long hair. I had far more damage with a perm than colouring has ever caused me.

Just to be clear, I was not colouring my hair when I had perms.

Do more reading around here to get ideas, and if you really want to get that perm, make sure you use the two week rule.

cindy58
September 22nd, 2008, 09:10 AM
I would not perm. I used to do it years ago with a short style I had, but it is damaging and I thought it smelled stinky every time it got wet.

Eireann
September 22nd, 2008, 09:37 AM
I highly recommend Aveda "Be Curly Curl Enhancer." I just started using it. I love it! It's the only thing that I've used that gives my hair moisture and shine and tames the frizz without weighing down the curl. Even my DH commented on how pretty my hair looked.

Anje
September 22nd, 2008, 10:04 AM
I think my hairtype is similar to yours, if you've got the type right, and I used to perm mine when I was younger (elementary school!). It made my hair quite frizzy, though I rather liked the massive poofiness of it at the time.

If I put a little oil or shea butter conditioning cream in my hair after it dries, it smooths down the frizz a lot. Lots of people around here recommend aloe gel (typically, comb a glob through while hair is wet), but it gives me tangles. Oil takes some experimentation to get the perfect amount between calm hair and greaseball, but the results can be well worth it. I'd recommend you try that, especially on days you want it to be straighter.

Melisande
September 22nd, 2008, 10:32 AM
Do. Not. Perm.

I did it, and paid lots of money for it. For a week, it looked good. Then the chemical damage began to show. Then the growing pattern of the hair upset the curl pattern - it looks unnatural, no matter how well done. Natural curls GROW as curls, no perm roller can imitate that.

Frizzies, hair breaking and falling off, split ends - you name it, I had it. Why did I perm my hair for at least five times? Because I SO longed for curls and always thought: next week, it will look better... :D

Use papillotes, rag curlers, old towels, whatever, in fairly dry hair. Mini-buns also give me good waves, so do braids.

But as everybody else said: if you want long hair, stay away from perms and heat appliances. They're not worth the trouble you have to deal with afterwards...

Sorry to be so blunt but it's my bitter experience speaking here.

Katze
September 22nd, 2008, 10:51 AM
Hi hairtwin!

First of all, DO NOT PERM. It will damage your hair, and will grow out anyway, making you have to perm again.

Bendy foam curlers - the kind that look like sticks - work really well for me. I am too stupid to figure out curlers, and braid waves just make my hair kinky. Bun waves are just starting to work now that more of my hair is below shoulder length.

Also, the more moisture (leave-ins, misting, *very very light* oiling) on my hair from the ears down does help it curl on its own and hang better. Aloe *gel* (with glycerin) (or just hair gel!) does help a bit with the frizz, and on the ends I mix it with leave-in.

Reading between the lines, and knowing what a struggle layered, fine, wavy hair is, I suspect your hair might not have enough moisture, especially on the ends. Have you tried stretching your washes? This really helped my hair

Before I got pregnant, washing WO every other wash helped get my scalp clean but made my hair much softer and less frizzy. It might work for you.

Feel free to PM me if you need any information about growing out damaged fine wavy hair, dealing with layers on said stubborn hair, or anything else. :)

Katze-the-frizzy

Melisande
September 22nd, 2008, 11:29 AM
Seriously OT: Katze, I can't tell you how happy it makes me to read your kitty calendar! 13 weeks. This is SO lovely.

Had to say that. End of OT.

coolbreeze212
September 22nd, 2008, 11:46 AM
Oh please reconsider getting a perm!!!

You think you're frizzy now?....a perm will only worsen it. The damage is terrible. And it is more upkeep than you would think.

You would find yourself always searching for that "special something" that would tame the fried/frizzy look & to enhance the crappy looking curl. You would feel tied to curling irons just to make it look decent. Or you would be constantly misting and scrunching...hoping to help the appearance.

Then, when it grows out, you'll hate that look too...so then you might want to perm again....only to find that you've compounded your problems even more.

No, please don't perm. Perms suck. I mean that sincerely. I know this might seem very blunt. But I am speaking from experience... too much experience. I deeply regret the perms I've gotten. And once my permed length grows out completely I will never do it again...mark my words.

ohiomom
September 22nd, 2008, 07:30 PM
Right now I just feel so blah about my hair! CO'in and my hair did not work...I tried Suave naturals in different 'flavors", I tried VO5 and all sorts of Cone free ones. I did it for alomost 2 months and my hair just seemed greasy.
I tired oiliing last night...OMG was I a greaseball this morning!
So, right now, I'm using suave shampoo and conditioner...globbing on the condish after I shampoo.
I've tried all sorts of different anti frizz products and none seem to work. John Freda, biolage etc. Any good recs on something. I do somewhat like the look of my hair when I wear it up damp and when it dreis the waves it get. But, my hair is layered right now. One layer about 3 inches past my shoulder and one layer at my shoulder. So, it isn't nice consistent waves I'm getting.
Goal wise...I just want healthy gorgeous hair! I would love waist lenght hair, but don't know that I have the patience for that!
I will say that when I straighten my hair, I quickly run it through. I don't think I get too much damage from it at all. I wen close to 6 or seven months without a trim and straightening everyday. I told the girl just to trim the dead ends, and she siad that I didn't really seem to have many. Thanks for all the hellp. Maybe this weekend or something, I will take a pic of my hair after it airdries for some suggestions. Thanks again...and I will not call to schedule my perm....
But, what about Henna?
Jamie

spidermom
September 22nd, 2008, 07:34 PM
Try CWC (apply conditioner to length, wash scalp, rinse, apply conditioner again, rinse)with diluted shampoo for clean hair that doesn't get stripped. CO didn't work for me either, but CWC is da bomb!

Katze
September 23rd, 2008, 02:04 AM
Right now I just feel so blah about my hair! CO'in and my hair did not work...I tried Suave naturals in different 'flavors", I tried VO5 and all sorts of Cone free ones. I did it for alomost 2 months and my hair just seemed greasy.
I tired oiliing last night...OMG was I a greaseball this morning!


CO doesn't work for a lot of people. I think it is overrated for fine hair. Fine hair needs to get clean, or it will be greasy, dull, hanging in "bacon strips" as my mom calls it.

Oiling is also a tough one. I still get it wrong all the time. What's worked for me is a *DROP* of oil (no more!) rubbed between my palms until they shine, and smoothed on the hair from the ears down. Any more oil and I turn into a greaseball too.




I've tried all sorts of different anti frizz products and none seem to work. John Freda, biolage etc. Any good recs on something. I do somewhat like the look of my hair when I wear it up damp and when it dreis the waves it get. But, my hair is layered right now. One layer about 3 inches past my shoulder and one layer at my shoulder. So, it isn't nice consistent waves I'm getting.
Goal wise...I just want healthy gorgeous hair! I would love waist lenght hair, but don't know that I have the patience for that!
I will say that when I straighten my hair, I quickly run it through. I don't think I get too much damage from it at all. I wen close to 6 or seven months without a trim and straightening everyday. *snip*
Jamie

Forget the expensive products. They are all coney anyway, and you might discover you don't like 'cones (that is another subject!) but as far as I am concerned there is a lot of crap in that stuff you don't need. I know, I used to spend lots of money on them too, without success.

Misting works really well. Take a small mister, fill it with your choice of: water, conditioner, aloe, a bit of oil, essential oil for fragrance...basically your choice, then mist the hair (again, ears down!) several times throughout the day. In your case, I would recommend filling a mister with just aloe, conditioner, and water. This has really helped moisturize my ends and make my waves come out.

Also, any time you put heat on your hair - whether you see damage right away or not - you are damaging it. As a fine-haired person, this is not what your hair needs. There are other ways to straighten hair (gently blowdrying it straight on low heat when your hair is almost dry, for example) that are less damaging, some (wrapping hair, finger-straightening, combing while damp) that are not damaging at all.

I also want waist length hair, and am also fighting layers, damage, frizz, and just plain messy hair. Trimming the longest layer is working really well for me; even though it seems like my hair doesn't grow, it is thickening up really well and slowly the layers are catching up.

Don't worry! You've come to the right place and there is a LOT of good information here. Your hair IS growing and it WILL get longer if you treat it kindly...I know I didn't believe it either, but it's true. ;)

good luck, let us know what you find!

Katze

Dolly
September 23rd, 2008, 07:37 AM
Right now I just feel so blah about my hair! CO'in and my hair did not work...I tried Suave naturals in different 'flavors", I tried VO5 and all sorts of Cone free ones. I did it for alomost 2 months and my hair just seemed greasy.
I tired oiliing last night...OMG was I a greaseball this morning!
So, right now, I'm using suave shampoo and conditioner...globbing on the condish after I shampoo.
I've tried all sorts of different anti frizz products and none seem to work. John Freda, biolage etc. Any good recs on something. I do somewhat like the look of my hair when I wear it up damp and when it dreis the waves it get. But, my hair is layered right now. One layer about 3 inches past my shoulder and one layer at my shoulder. So, it isn't nice consistent waves I'm getting.
Goal wise...I just want healthy gorgeous hair! I would love waist lenght hair, but don't know that I have the patience for that!
I will say that when I straighten my hair, I quickly run it through. I don't think I get too much damage from it at all. I wen close to 6 or seven months without a trim and straightening everyday. I told the girl just to trim the dead ends, and she siad that I didn't really seem to have many. Thanks for all the hellp. Maybe this weekend or something, I will take a pic of my hair after it airdries for some suggestions. Thanks again...and I will not call to schedule my perm....
But, what about Henna?
Jamie


Well, I hope you find what works for you, but please DON'T PERM!! I had perms every year (sometimes twice a year, sometimes 3 times a year) for 20+ years. The result? I lost over half of my hair, and what I had left was in HORRIBLE condition. Even though I conditioned, oiled, misted, sprayed, etc, with very high-end expensive products, it still didn't help. When I finally went naturally straight, after I had my son 9.5 years ago, it was in such bad condition that I had to cut it off to chin length.

Since you feel BLAH about it, why don't you try clarifying with baking soda, and THEN using a good moisturizing treatment. Maybe your hair doesn't like cones (some hair does and some doesn't).....you may have some build up that is making it misbehave. If that doesn't help, then maybe you might want to try getting it blunt cut to remove that pesky layer. Some hair likes layers and some doesn't....

Just try to pay attention to what your hair likes.....I promise you that you will regret perming if you do it.....even one perm can cause immense damage. Take it from a person who will NEVER perm again. EVER.

Babyfine
September 23rd, 2008, 09:31 AM
Chiming in late- I agree with the others- don't perm.
I permed from the early 80's through the 90's to bulk up my fine thin hair- with a few breaks in between. I wasn't trying to grow my hair long then.
some perms looked good, some were disasters, but they all resulted in damage down the line- which later had to be cut off. And in some cases breaking off hair!!
I also have fine, thin, wavy, tending -to -frizz- hair. The perms gave me even curls- at first- then damage and frizz.
CWC twice a week and gentle care and NO heat have helped my hair immensly. I think of that terrible heat boiling the hair strand- and no- NO hot tools!
I have recovered a lot of shine that I NEVER had when I permed.(or heat styled, either)
I also want long, healthy, hair and by perming that will never happen.
For me, two small buns when damp yield nice body- and some waves.
Also I used "Goodie" soft rollers some times, to get curls.
I will never put perm chemical on my hair again-I hope!

Babyfine
September 23rd, 2008, 09:37 AM
Oh and Iagree with Katze (congratulations Katze, BTW)
Layers are not for me if I want long hair.
For me, the more length that is all one length, the less wispy and tendancy to frizz.
I have some face framing layers cut in an impulse decision (two week rule, two week rule) that I regret and am growing out now.

ohiomom
September 23rd, 2008, 07:57 PM
One more question. Haircut wise this time. What do you al think about razored ends vs. layers. I like teh look of blunt cuts, but on me the ends kind of clump together. Not a good discription, I know. Layers work because there is distinction there. But, all one length, the ends get pretty knotty. But, maybe if I get a blunt cut with razored ends? Thanks

Magdalene
September 23rd, 2008, 08:28 PM
I actually miss my perms, but I think I have exceptionally strong hair. It's almost impossible to get big boucy curls from a perm, though.

Now I'm trying to get my wet curlies to last dry. Hope you find something that works for you!

FrannyG
September 23rd, 2008, 08:36 PM
Gah!!! No razored ends!!! Razor cuts lead to splits really quickly. Proper scissor layering with good scissors is fine. However, fine hair tends to look thicker when blunt. That of course, like everything else, is your decision.

I don't think anyone here will recommend a razor cut though.

AquaViolet1973
September 25th, 2008, 08:49 PM
I'll probably be the lone voice saying this, but I perm my hair once every year or two, and I love the waves perming gives my hair. I don't like my hair straight. :blossom:

ladyshannonanne
September 25th, 2008, 09:22 PM
I used to think I wanted to get a body perm to help define my waves, but I decided that it would cause too much damage. Also, it's expensive.

One other factor to consider is that the perm might not even take. I have fairly healthy hair and a stylist told me that my virgin hair might not take the first few perms because it isn't porous enough.

avraea
September 26th, 2008, 01:30 PM
Gah!!! No razored ends!!! Razor cuts lead to splits really quickly.

As someone who got a razored cut a month ago, I have to agree with this. I don't know what possessed me to do it, but I seriously regret it and have been trying to nurse and baby these ends. The condition of my hair changed quite a bit. The frizz and flyaways are INSANE with razored cuts. Now the only thing I have to look forward to is growing them out. :(

HazelnutDelight
October 6th, 2008, 03:42 PM
My mother used to get a body wave perm for years. She had very thin fragile type of hair and always wanted volume. Her hair would always look nice at first for a couple weeks then it would just look frizzy and she still needed to style it everyday so the waves would show. Her hair would never grow and she would always assume it just doesn't, but she also dyed her hair on top of the perm and roots were showing. Her hair was just too damaged that the length never showed. It probably just fell apart in pieces since her thin hair couldn't take it.

1nuitblanche
October 6th, 2008, 03:51 PM
If you wash your hair at night and put it in a bun on the top of your head while you sleep, you could probably wake up with a nice wave, or at least some body, and less frizz. All you have to do in terms of "styling" is take the bun down in the morning. Plus, you won't have to pay lots for it, you won't have to go back every month or two, and it will decrease damage instead of increasing it.

maskedrose
October 6th, 2008, 04:41 PM
First, I'm just going to add my vote to the "don't perm" pile!

Second, if you have fine hair, it is even more important that you don't use heat appliances all the time or get razored cuts, etc. Fine hair show damage soooo much more quickly than coarse hair, and personally I think it's not worth it. Every once in a while I will blow mine dry, but this literally only happens 2 or 3 times a year.

Since your hair is only 19" right now, give it some time to grow into itself. I love my hair more and more the longer it gets and I cannot wait until the day comes when I finally trim off my last layer. A year ago I would have scoffed at ever having a blunt cut since I thought that my hair laid so much better with layers, but I have definitely changed my tune!

Just give it some time and play around with different washing methods. I think you should give Spidermom's suggestion of CWC a try. Although I CO and love it, I know that it does not work for a lot of people. Also try using a SLS free shampoo so your hair isn't being stripped at every wash. If you haven't tried coconut oil as a leave in, I highly recommend that you do. I put a very small amount (a short fingernail full - its solid at room temperature, so you have to scrape it and then warm between your palms) on damp hair which has really helped with the frizzies.

Good luck!!

spidermom
October 6th, 2008, 05:14 PM
This thread has been running for awhile. Original poster, what did you decide?

Angelica
October 6th, 2008, 05:36 PM
Yes I did have a perm when I was young. Exactly what you were asking about. A body/wave perm. Because my hair is so very fine and flyaway it needed that extra bit of help. I can tell you that the perm I used is no longer on the market and I would not trust anything else.

It was called "Rave." In my opinion it was a good perm. I had no damage that I could think of.

Other perms did damage it, but not "Rave."

Since I only had a body perm, it didn't curl it and nor did it go frizzy. However when it blew in the wind it would stay in shape and if I put rollers in the night before, the "curls" would remain in.

Perms have changed now and there are not that many out there.

"Velvet" was another good one.

I also used "Pin up." But that didn't take.

In those days I didn't know how to put my hair up and was always battling the "stringy" look of my hair if I went outside.

I wouldn't resort back to the perm now, I think I would be afraid to.

Because even though "Rave" and "Velvet" were good ones, and the condition seemed "improved" - there was another perm, I forget the make, which gave me a lot of damage. The perms at the hairdressers were particularly bad.

Hair like mine is always a problem with regards the lack of body and flatness.

I have used mousse and rollers as well. Even gel in order to try and get the volume.

Now I only used mousse because rollers are so uncomfortable.

ohiomom
March 14th, 2009, 09:43 PM
I forgot all about posting this months ago. Since then, for the most part, I've just been wearing my hair up, not thinking about it. Then, I "discovered" aloe gel and what it did for my hair...nice messy waves with little frizz.
One day, I did try the foam rollers that you fold or tie the ends on...my hair shrunk by like 5 inches or so!
I did just buy the caruso steam set today from Sally's to try. My mom had one when I was little and she loved it and her hair was always long, so we'll see how it turns out. I've only straightened it once in the past 4 months or so, and that was just the other day. I have found a CO that works for me...or I'm just doing it right finally! Thanks for all the help.
Jamie