Keeping An Updo *UP* Troubles

[kimichan]

This is probably a stupid post/question, but I have been trying to embrace updos recently and am having some struggles.

When I do my hair up in like a high ponytail or something similar, it always seems to sort of sink down. Why does this happen? I'm trying to achieve a perky, high ponytail but it seems to just hang like it's too heavy or something. Am I not doing it tight enough? Any tips??

Also, my hair always ends up looking gappy and messy, like I can't get it to all style into the position it should be for the updo. If you get what I mean.... it makes my hair look thin when it's actually decently thick. Do I need to brush it into style better? I seem to mainly try this when my hair is greasy, is that my problem?

Sorry for such dumb questions, due to my round face shape I've never had the confidence for updos and am just getting into it now to get my haircut outta sight as well as to exercise more.

[eadwine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTNFwy-Tn5s Start watching at around 4mins in, you can keep the sound off :)

[Madora]

This is probably a stupid post/question, but I have been trying to embrace updos recently and am having some struggles.

When I do my hair up in like a high ponytail or something similar, it always seems to sort of sink down. Why does this happen? I'm trying to achieve a perky, high ponytail but it seems to just hang like it's too heavy or something. Am I not doing it tight enough? Any tips??

Also, my hair always ends up looking gappy and messy, like I can't get it to all style into the position it should be for the updo. If you get what I mean.... it makes my hair look thin when it's actually decently thick. Do I need to brush it into style better? I seem to mainly try this when my hair is greasy, is that my problem?

Sorry for such dumb questions, due to my round face shape I've never had the confidence for updos and am just getting into it now to get my haircut outta sight as well as to exercise more.

First off, there are no "stupid" questions.

Ponytails are not hair friendly for two reasons: if used repeatedly, they cause traction alopecia because of the hair being pulled back too tightly. The hair nearest your forehead and sides is much more delicate than hairs on other parts of your head. They are the first to suffer the damage from too tight ponytails. Over time, constant ponytail use can cause the hair at the site of the ponytail to weaken. Worst case scenario, the hair will wear away, leaving you with a bald spot where the ponytail once sat. So, use ponytails sparingly!

The sinking down problem you mention is usually a case of the hair not being secured snugly. However, this can be problematic because you don't want the hair to be so secure that it causes traction alopecia problems.

Are you only using ponytail holders to hold the hair up? What diameter is your ponytail holder? Thinner ones don't really work if your hair is even moderately thick. Try and find one that is a bit thick, preferably fabric coated, with no metal.

Depending on your hair's thickness, and the elasticity of the ponytail holder, you may be able to do 2 or 3 turns of the ponytail holder to make the ponytail. It can vary a lot, depending on how "used" the ponytail holder is. The ones that have been used more have a bit more "give" than a new one right out of the box.

If you enjoy wearing your hair up in ponytails, I'd recommend, for the sake of your hair, to switch to large barrettes instead. Just be sure to check for any sharp edges. Not all barrettes are created equal, of course. The ones with the French clasp hold really snugly and are ease to open/close. Other barrettes might have little teeth to help the barrette grasp your hair better.

Frankly, I've never heard of an updo that you "brushed" into style. Most updos confine the hair in some fashion and are not loose..unless you're doing a half up.

When forming an updo, the hair should be gently detangled first, then combed back away from the face, before starting the style. I prefer a comb to do the combing back because a brush is never precise enough. Some people prefer to use a brush.

Your "gappy and messy" descriptions make me wonder if your hair is suffering from product buildup. All the stuff that lands on your hair can weigh it down, leaving it limp and unappealing. If such is the case, then perhaps your hair needs to be clarified with a clarifying shampoo (be sure to follow the shampoo with a conditioning treatment afterwards).

Also, I found that brushing my hair BEFORE starting the style makes it look better. Be sure to detangle before brushing!

Lastly, my apologies if I have misinterpreted your questions! And if it is any comfort, updos take a bit of a learning curve but are the best way to protect your delicate strands. Good luck!

.

[LongCurlyTress]

First off, there are no "stupid" questions.

Ponytails are not hair friendly for two reasons: if used repeatedly, they cause traction alopecia because of the hair being pulled back too tightly. The hair nearest your forehead and sides is much more delicate than hairs on other parts of your head. They are the first to suffer the damage from too tight ponytails. Over time, constant ponytail use can cause the hair at the site of the ponytail to weaken. Worst case scenario, the hair will wear away, leaving you with a bald spot where the ponytail once sat. So, use ponytails sparingly!

The sinking down problem you mention is usually a case of the hair not being secured snugly. However, this can be problematic because you don't want the hair to be so secure that it causes traction alopecia problems.

Are you only using ponytail holders to hold the hair up? What diameter is your ponytail holder? Thinner ones don't really work if your hair is even moderately thick. Try and find one that is a bit thick, preferably fabric coated, with no metal.

Depending on your hair's thickness, and the elasticity of the ponytail holder, you may be able to do 2 or 3 turns of the ponytail holder to make the ponytail. It can vary a lot, depending on how "used" the ponytail holder is. The ones that have been used more have a bit more "give" than a new one right out of the box.

If you enjoy wearing your hair up in ponytails, I'd recommend, for the sake of your hair, to switch to large barrettes instead. Just be sure to check for any sharp edges. Not all barrettes are created equal, of course. The ones with the French clasp hold really snugly and are ease to open/close. Other barrettes might have little teeth to help the barrette grasp your hair better.

Frankly, I've never heard of an updo that you "brushed" into style. Most updos confine the hair in some fashion and are not loose..unless you're doing a half up.

When forming an updo, the hair should be gently detangled first, then combed back away from the face, before starting the style. I prefer a comb to do the combing back because a brush is never precise enough. Some people prefer to use a brush.

Your "gappy and messy" descriptions make me wonder if your hair is suffering from product buildup. All the stuff that lands on your hair can weigh it down, leaving it limp and unappealing. If such is the case, then perhaps your hair needs to be clarified with a clarifying shampoo (be sure to follow the shampoo with a conditioning treatment afterwards).

Also, I found that brushing my hair BEFORE starting the style makes it look better. Be sure to detangle before brushing!

Lastly, my apologies if I have misinterpreted your questions! And if it is any comfort, updos take a bit of a learning curve but are the best way to protect your delicate strands. Good luck!

.

I love all your suggestions, Madora! All great ideas that are worth reading again and again. Thanks for posting! :happydance:

[lapushka]

How long is your hair now? And how thick is it (measure the circumference of your ponytail). All this matters when doing updos.

[Johannah]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTNFwy-Tn5s Start watching at around 4mins in, you can keep the sound off :)

Thank you for sharing that video, eadwine! Never thought of this, even though it's quite a simple idea!

[eadwine]

You're welcome! I have the same updo sagging thing going on, and ponytails are easiest to solve. I KNOW I saw a better video of this but for the life of me I cannot find it anymore. At least this makes it clear :)

[meteor]

I have this problem a lot (with updos, not ponytails, which I can't do), especially when my hair is freshly washed and slippery. I think it's a typical thick hair problem.
What helps is definitely sectioning (like in the video eadwine posted up-thread) and also doing two of everything: two braids, two buns, or something in a grippy structure: milkmaid braids, horseshoe braids, Elling woman bun, Amish braided bun... Or wearing half-ups.
From my experience, at a certain length, high ponytails are no longer possible on thick hair. :( But they aren't hair-friendly, so I don't mind it much! ;)

[Madora]

I have this problem a lot (with updos, not ponytails, which I can't do), especially when my hair is freshly washed and slippery. I think it's a typical thick hair problem.
What helps is definitely sectioning (like in the video eadwine posted up-thread) and also doing two of everything: two braids, two buns, or something in a grippy structure: milkmaid braids, horseshoe braids, Elling woman bun, Amish braided bun... Or wearing half-ups.
From my experience, at a certain length, high ponytails are no longer possible on thick hair. :( But they aren't hair-friendly, so I don't mind it much! ;)

You're so right, Meteor! Sectioning is the answer to handling thick hair more easily. It's a lot more comfortable to wear all day!

[Madora]

I love all your suggestions, Madora! All great ideas that are worth reading again and again. Thanks for posting! :happydance:

You're most welcome, LongCurlyTress. Admittedly, starting the style (when it requires a ponytail setting) requires a bit of experimenting (especially if you are new to creating updos). First its too lose...then its too tight. Argh! Its enough to drive you nuts! I hope original poster kimichan tries the sectioning method some time. It is great not to have to rely on a ponytail holder to create your double braided buns!

I hope

[Shorty89]

Madora and others have given you great suggestions. If we knew your hair length we could help you more. What styles are you trying to create?

[kimichan]

Thank you for all the suggestions! Product build up is probably a problem since I have had trouble with that. I'll work on that. :)
I'll definitely give all these a try and a lot of thought tho. My hair length is like, up to my chest I guess? 4 inches from my collarbone is my rough guess. And I don't know the thickness, it's not super thick though. Sorry I'm not good at all this length and thickness stuff....

[kimichan]

I'm trying to do high ponytails and two buns (or any buns really, I struggle with them)

[Shorty89]

Can you french or dutch braid? You could do double braids, and maybe a slick crown braid.

[kimichan]

I can't do either of those, I'm really bad with updos like I can't even do a simple plat. I'll google them though and see if they're easy enough for me to learn..

[lapushka]

Thank you for all the suggestions! Product build up is probably a problem since I have had trouble with that. I'll work on that. :)
I'll definitely give all these a try and a lot of thought tho. My hair length is like, up to my chest I guess? 4 inches from my collarbone is my rough guess. And I don't know the thickness, it's not super thick though. Sorry I'm not good at all this length and thickness stuff....

Making a high ponytail, then banding it with a double band might possibly help.

[Madora]

I can't do either of those, I'm really bad with updos like I can't even do a simple plat. I'll google them though and see if they're easy enough for me to learn..

kimichan, in order to succeed in creating updos, you have to start out simple.

Learn first how to manipulate your hair into a ponytail. Use a wide tooth comb for better grip when smoothing the front hair back, and the back hair up, to create the ponytail. Be sure your hair is detangled before you begin manipulating your hair.

If you don't know how to do a simple braid, then I suggest you learn how to braid using thick hanks of yarn. Once you master the over and under motions of braiding, then you can experiment making a simple plait on yourself. Try doing a side braid first, which is a lot easier because you can watch yourself in the mirror. When you feel comfortable doing that, try doing a simple braid behind your head.

If you have thick hair then the secret to buns and such is to section the hair to create the bun. Naturally, all buns can't be sectioned, but the basic braid buns can, with a little imagination. Sectioning is simply distributing the hair in two braids, rather than one, and creating a bun that distributes the weight over the scalp and is more comfortable to wear all day.
Bottom line: practice, practice, practice. Everyone here had to start at the beginning too. I know that in the beginning the frustration at not being able to handle your hair like you want can drive you up a tree. But hang in there! With time you'll succeed. In the meantime, perhaps you can watch the Torrin Paige tutorials on You Tube. She has quite a few and you might find something there that will help you understand the updo procedures more clearly. Good luck!

[Chromis]

I suspect you might be having trouble with updos because you are making them too high! Try position your buns lower. One step at a time. Once you have the hang of them closer to your nape, you can start inching them up if you like. Personally I find they are more comfortable and more stylish lower. When I make them high I get loads of flyaways and that rumpled look.

I have no tips for high ponytails, my hair doesn't do them very well either and they give me a headache.