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Majorane
August 11th, 2014, 11:50 AM
Yeah, so the thing is, my hair seems to be on hunger strike. When it comes out of my head it’s all happyhappy goodgood, nice and smooth and shiny and about as fragile as glass. Then, as soon as it goes past jawline or so, it becomes a bit dry. And after shoulder it all of a sudden turns from glass-fragile into look-at-me-wrong-and-I’ll-snap-just-to-piss-you-off fragile. Okay, fair, it feels dry, I would not be happy hair either being so dry…. BUT IT DOESN”T ACCEPT ANYTHING I OFFER IT TO REPLENISH!
Oil? “Noooo, that’s too greasy!” Okay then, how about protein? “Yuuuuck, eeeew, noo, I’ll turn all gummy if you give me thaaat” Uhm, maybe a nice condis- “EEEEW yuck! So sticky it smothers me I’m gonna suffocate halp!” YOU KNOW WHAT?! I’M NOT GONNA GIVE YOU ANYTING!! “Okay then, I’m gonna snap and snag and split because YOU LET ME STARVE!”
Oils don’t absorb. Damp oiling leaves me with damp, greasy hair. (I tried coconut oil, olive oil, castor oil, superultrahealthyyummy argan oil, avocado oil, almond oil, baby oil, sunflower seed oil….) Coffee rinses were sort of not detrimental, but no matter how well I rinse it out my hair smelt horribly like old coffee for days, and I’m sorry, that’s gagworthy to me. I have to be light with the conditioner otherwise my hair is choking in the stuff, and yes I am conefree and buildup-free as well. This would all be okay except my hair obviously is lacking in something, as it’s really dry and snaps so easily. It’s just that no matter what I throw at it, it just seems to lay on top of my hair or bounce back, without it making a darn difference.

What am I doing wrong and what is that ultrasectet trick you all aren’t telling me, to make my hair absorb more things? C’mon, please let me in your secret club. I’ll behave, and make a mean tiramisu, really. Please?

Anje
August 11th, 2014, 11:55 AM
I guess the first question is, were you treating your hair badly about a year or so ago?

I'm confused about protein making your hair "gummy". That's a very atypical description of the effects of protein on hair. What did you use?

embee
August 11th, 2014, 12:02 PM
I might also question your own physical health about a year ago. If you were very unwell or taking some odd medication, maybe chemo or some such horror, who knows how it affected the hair you now see breaking off if you look at it?

Hope it all clears up when the new hair gets some length to it. Although the fact that you say the *new* hair is fragile is not a hopeful sign.

Hibernis
August 11th, 2014, 12:03 PM
Maybe you need cones? There's a whole thread about it (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=46733&highlight=coneheads) that might be worth looking into.

GetMeToWaist
August 11th, 2014, 12:04 PM
Medication like antidepressants and antipsychotics (basically some psychoactive medications) can actually do this to hair.

Majorane
August 11th, 2014, 12:05 PM
Ah. No, I've been treating my hair quite nicely since I joined, I think that was 2010-2011ish..? And I maintained mostly at Apl since then, to grow out damage. I grow pretty normal-fastish so most of my current hair has had a good life and still snaps on me. As for the protein:I have used various products that said 'hydrolized' somethingsometjing because that means protein, right? Almost always it was okay (sometimes even great) for one or two uses, and then it went all.... clingy, stringy, clumpy together, sticky eew. And when I try to untangle when it's like that it brittles away.

I feel a bit frustrated about it all, to be honest. I've been maintaining the same boring length for three years because I wanted to start growing really long with a good solid healthy base, but I'm still not there. If it keeps going like this, I'll never get past bsl, because my hair just is so darn fragile. Luckily it's shiny, so it doesn't show. But still. It just lacks strength!

Edit: cones just lay on top of it, like oil. Also, I'm reasonably healthy, but yes on antidepressants. How did y'all know? Although I had thisnproblem before I was on them, too....

Hibernis
August 11th, 2014, 12:19 PM
Another thought: Celiac, any chance that's an issue? Any autoimmine issues going on?

Cania
August 11th, 2014, 12:19 PM
What oil do you use? Do you heat it to help it absorb?
How about catnip? Works wonders for some.

If you are that desperate, maybe Cassia?

Chromis
August 11th, 2014, 12:31 PM
A different direction, have you tried chelating? My hair behaves a bit like this if there is too much mineral build up because our water is so hard. I use a mix of ACV and citric acid after each wash. I started doing this with shampoo bars, but even when I tried regular shampoo again for a while it still made a dramatic difference. They sell special shampoos too, but I fear they would be too harsh for my hair.

Majorane
August 11th, 2014, 12:37 PM
Whoooaah, people! What a concern! No, I don't have celiac (or ...am celiac? Like gluten-allergy?). Been tested several times, actually, but nope. Also I am in relative okay health except for a few infections I had lately, but that shouldn't influence my hair that's at the ends. (I do hope the antibiotics will not cause a shed because I had a LOT of those lately but that's not for todays worries.) I've been eating okay for at least five years (yay!). My family is known for having lousy hair, so even though I'm on ad's my hair is not really more fragile.... we're just allll fragilehaired, and since I'm so careful I can make mine look nice at apl+.

Cassia I could try; might shop for that tomorrow on my Hunt for Henna round. ...I also use henna, have been doing that for 16 years. Is improvement, but drying.

Shall try catnip. Have used warmish oil, never hot. Didn't do anything, except sit on top and don't wash out. Have tried olive, coconut, castor (disaster), avocado, almond, sunflower seed, baby, argan.... probably some more, that I forgot.


Normal care routine is a mild sulphate-free shampoo 2-3 times a week, condition or hairmask on the length, soak in shower, rinserinserinse. If I leave something in longer than say, 10 minutes, I'll have buildup, with crunchies underneath.

It's like nothing I do can make stuff penetrate my hair, or pretend it does that.... but doing nothing is also drying. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but for the life of me I have no clue what.
Am great in making body butters from leftover oils, too.

Majorane
August 11th, 2014, 12:40 PM
Ah! Yes, I've used baking soda and ACV. It wasn't an improvement, the frizz was horrid! The water here is relatively soft.


...I'm sorry, I'm not shooting down all your lovely help and ideas on purpose!!

GetMeToWaist
August 11th, 2014, 12:42 PM
Ah. No, I've been treating my hair quite nicely since I joined, I think that was 2010-2011ish..? And I maintained mostly at Apl since then, to grow out damage. I grow pretty normal-fastish so most of my current hair has had a good life and still snaps on me. As for the protein:I have used various products that said 'hydrolized' somethingsometjing because that means protein, right? Almost always it was okay (sometimes even great) for one or two uses, and then it went all.... clingy, stringy, clumpy together, sticky eew. And when I try to untangle when it's like that it brittles away.

I feel a bit frustrated about it all, to be honest. I've been maintaining the same boring length for three years because I wanted to start growing really long with a good solid healthy base, but I'm still not there. If it keeps going like this, I'll never get past bsl, because my hair just is so darn fragile. Luckily it's shiny, so it doesn't show. But still. It just lacks strength!

Edit: cones just lay on top of it, like oil. Also, I'm reasonably healthy, but yes on antidepressants. How did y'all know? Although I had thisnproblem before I was on them, too....

I knew because i am also on AD's and can tell a little from your original post... From one junkie to another i guess, haha. Only joking! Also ADs can reduce the oil your hair produces and can also have an effect on your vitamins, like vit D levels and minerals. Change in hair condition is a common side effect. Depends how long youve been on the pills for - if not too long, your hair will probably get used to the adjustment in vitamins.

Also, sorry to dwell on the antidepressant side of things, but a common factor that slides along with depression and similar mental health problems is a vitamin D deficiency.... Which i had too, changing my hair condition. So that may be why your hair was like that before.

MINAKO
August 11th, 2014, 12:47 PM
Try blackstrap molasses as a pre poo ( i even use it in rinses and sometimes leave ins )
You have to dillute it with condish, coconut milk or at least destilled water to make it smooth enough to apply, it works wonders for me when it comes to moisture retentionwhen honey and aloe did absolutely nothing. Mind that it can have a temporary darkening effect, apparently it enhances brown tones, but my hair is way to dark for it to show up on me.

Chromis
August 11th, 2014, 12:52 PM
Ah! Yes, I've used baking soda and ACV. It wasn't an improvement, the frizz was horrid! The water here is relatively soft.


...I'm sorry, I'm not shooting down all your lovely help and ideas on purpose!!

Oh, I just mean the ACV without the baking soda! You would need something like citric acid too though in order to chelate better. With soft water it should just take one time every long now and then. Basically, minerals can "coat" our hair, so the treatments won't soak in and it tangles more. You could have gotten build up on vacation or just gradually over time. One place I lived had fairly soft water in pH, but somewhat high carbonate hardness which I still don't understand. (I used to test my water frequently for my fish tanks.)

Just the acid rinse alone should not make frizz. In fact if I use too much, it makes my hair very lank and it gets greasy faster. Pretty much the opposite of frizz!

Another idea, my hair gets very dry from henna if I use things like lemon juice in the mix. I just use hot water now and some hibiscus tea. And maybe some herbs like cloves and rosemary because I like to tinker...but not lemon juice, vinegar, or black tea.

Majorane
August 11th, 2014, 12:53 PM
Ah. ...I have no idea what that is, but I think I know a place that can sell me some. Can't hurt to try! Can I ask-did you also have trouble with things just not doing anything for your hair except sitting on top of it, being a pain?

Am making catnip tea now. Cats are going crazy.

eadwine
August 11th, 2014, 12:53 PM
I would start out going to the doc and getting a vitamin assessment, just to see if you are alright in those. Turned out I had a vit D deficiency so I am on the yippee fluid shots every three months.. BLEHK, but ah well..


You are using sulfate free poo, right? Ladies can you help me here, but for clarifying one needs a sulfate containing poo, or..?

Not too versed in all the means and diggidoos :)

Majorane
August 11th, 2014, 12:59 PM
Oh, I just mean the ACV without the baking soda! You would need something like citric acid too though in order to chelate better. With soft water it should just take one time every long now and then. Basically, minerals can "coat" our hair, so the treatments won't soak in and it tangles more. You could have gotten build up on vacation or just gradually over time. One place I lived had fairly soft water in pH, but somewhat high carbonate hardness which I still don't understand. (I used to test my water frequently for my fish tanks.)

Just the acid rinse alone should not make frizz. In fact if I use too much, it makes my hair very lank and it gets greasy faster. Pretty much the opposite of frizz!

Another idea, my hair gets very dry from henna if I use things like lemon juice in the mix. I just use hot water now and some hibiscus tea. And maybe some herbs like cloves and rosemary because I like to tinker...but not lemon juice, vinegar, or black tea.
Ooooh! I thought you meant the whole baking soda ACV thing. Hmmm, I've done some vinegar rinses in the past, but never noticed anything changing except I smelled like salad dressing for as long as my hair is wet. Which is almost all day, it dries slowly. Maybe I should try again for a few weeks, you never know. As for the acids in henna, yes I do use lemon juice in my henna, will stop doing that the next dye! It just doesn't take as good if I leave the juice out, but right now I don't mind that. That's another thing: even henna fades until it's been applied at least three times, which is why I sometimes have huge roots showing. Is that normal?

Anje
August 11th, 2014, 01:07 PM
As for the protein:I have used various products that said 'hydrolized' somethingsometjing because that means protein, right? Almost always it was okay (sometimes even great) for one or two uses, and then it went all.... clingy, stringy, clumpy together, sticky eew. And when I try to untangle when it's like that it brittles away.

Likely, protein isn't the issue, but from one person who's funny about protein in her conditioner to another -- they're not all equal.

Silk anything makes my hair a nightmare. (It's worth noting that this is especially the case with one of the most-loved CO washing conditioners around. It certainly doesn't apply to everyone!) Hydrolyzed keratin is better for a little while, but ultimately I find I need to keep it out of my daily products but can still put it in an occasional treatment.

For home recipes, I've heard good things about gelatin. A milder treatment, and one that I've tried, is low-sodium soy sauce. I was actually quite pleased with about 10mL mixed into my SMT the last time I tried it. Diluting a similar small amount in water, pouring it through the offending hair, and then following up with a moisturizing no-protein conditioner can also work.

The reason I'm going on with the protein thing is that it can really help moisture "stick" to damaged hair. In many cases, it's not enough to put some protein in your routine. You need to do a concentrated dose and follow it with heavy duty moisture to keep the hair from getting brittle. Moisture treatments like SMTs are good for keeping the hair supple.

Majorane
August 11th, 2014, 01:26 PM
Anje, thanks. Very clear explanation. I'll ditch the hydrolized stuff completely for now and when they come back, I shall look more into what protein it exactly is. I was never that precise with it to be honest, because I was more focussed on moisture. But since that didn't stick I went all out with the hydrolizeds. In one thing a month schedules of course :rolleyes:

I'm gonna try the soy sauce or a gelatin treatment one of these days, see what that does. SMT never went that great because it's mostly conditioner and humectants; the conditioners always sort of stuck on the hair, not in, and the aloe and honey never did much. Like they reflected on the hair. I highly suspect my hair is very non-porous, but there must be something that can bring moisture in. There's more people with dense hair that get by fine. Maybe it's the protein after all?

I feel stupid, like I do something wrong, or am playing up hysterics here for attention by being an all 'nooo, that doesn't woohoork' dramalama. But it's also frustrating to not having the *click, this is it!* haircare routine. In al honesty my hair absolutely has improved since I joined here, and it's not a dead lettuce on my head, but I know I'm still missing something big.

Argh!

Majorane
August 11th, 2014, 01:33 PM
'T was the dreaded double reply. To distract from this faux pas, there's but one solution: kittens!

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu46/Marjokei/_MG_9486.jpg (http://s632.photobucket.com/user/Marjokei/media/_MG_9486.jpg.html)

Chromis
August 11th, 2014, 01:45 PM
Kittens!!

Henna does not stick very well on my hair either, but it faded when I used the lemon juice as well. On the bright side, I never have a grow out line!

I hate the smell of vinegar, so I use the organic kind of apple cider vinegar "with the mother". Then it smells more like apple and less like vomit. I also rinse just quickly, tip my head back and let the water wash down for only a moment, which really, really helps the smell! The white vinegar I can't stand at all on my hair, it smells like cleaning fluid. People here put vinegar on their fries too and I am like "Eeeeewwwww!"...well not to them, but to the thought. (They often like malt vinegar best, but white is used too). I don 't even care for vinegar salad dressings much :lol:

Firefox7275
August 11th, 2014, 02:33 PM
I would clarify and chelate, especially if you swim or have hard water. The vast majority of ingredients in conditioner do not penetrate, they are supposed to coat the surface, a 'true' conditioner should be rich in the major emollients (fatty alcohols/ cationic surfactants) and one of their main tasks is to soften hair.

Ingredients prone to building up include many silicones, waxes including cetyl esters, butters, certain polyquats, petrolatum. You might consider a microscope hair analysis (Goosefootprints on Etsy, Komaza Care) so you know your hair properties (coarseness, elasticity, porosity) and what ingredients are likely to work for you.

Less can be more with hydrolysed protein, if it helps for a couple of washes then just use it say once a week or once a fortnight in conditioner form. I would not leap into doing hardcore treatments like the gelatin one unless you do a weak version of it for a short duration.

Less can also be more with oils, they are 100% active compared with conditioner which is 90%+ water and further diluted by the shower water. The penetrating ones tend to diffuse in very slowly so you wouldn't necessarily expect all the oil you apply to be sucked up overnight.

puddums
August 11th, 2014, 04:31 PM
I also vote for chelating. Your problem sounds exactly like what happens to my hair when it needs to be chelated (I have horrendously hard water).

I use a chelating shampoo when that happens and it's back to normal in a jiffy :)

ETA: Adorable kittens, by the way!

memeow
August 11th, 2014, 06:29 PM
This might be stupid, but when I first started oiling I had similar experiences with the oil just making my hair greasy. It works much better for me if I use the teensiest bit of oil, just barely enough to make my palms shiny when I rub them between my hands. Otherwise I get greasy, dry hair.

lapushka
August 11th, 2014, 06:39 PM
I'd go for a few good clarifies in a row and just plain good conditioner after.

meteor
August 11th, 2014, 07:22 PM
Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, but I am wondering: when was the last time you've clarified and chelated? :)
It's just that, when hair doesn't respond well at all to normal treatments, it's often due to either extreme damage beyond repair (which you obviously don't have!) or major build-up.
I highly recommend swimmers' shampoos for chelating and there are lots of great clarifying shampoos out there.

ErinLeigh
August 11th, 2014, 10:00 PM
Maybe you have low porosity hair making it harder to get moisture in? You mention nothing seems to penetrate.
I would read up on low porosity hair and see if that sounds like what you have and follow some tips to help moisturize it.
Just a thought.

A good chelating does help also if hair is just showing systns of mineral buildup. A good deep conditioner should work better afterwards.

Firefox7275
August 12th, 2014, 04:53 AM
Maybe you have low porosity hair making it harder to get moisture in? You mention nothing seems to penetrate.
I would read up on low porosity hair and see if that sounds like what you have and follow some tips to help moisturize it.
Just a thought.


With respect that makes no sense to me. Moisture = water, unless someone's hair is refusing to wet down in the shower then it is taking up moisture just fine. It's whether the hair holds onto the right amount that is the issue. Low porosity hair generally takes longer to dry than high porosity hair.

Plus it defies logic that someone's hair would be naturally lower porosity on the older lower sections than the newer upper sections. Hair is unavoidably 'weathered' as it ages - LHC practices aim to minimise this - this slowly erodes the water resistant fatty f-layer.

Johannah
August 12th, 2014, 04:57 AM
Hello neighbor! :waving:

To me it sounds like you have very low porosity hair. You got build-up pretty fast, oils just lie on top of your hair and don't soak in. Does your hair take forever to dry? Does it take a while before it's wet in the shower? Do chemicals like dye fade very fast? Do they even work at all? These are all signs your hair might be low porous.

I've heard about people whose hair acted like low porosity hair after a certain length, and for you this might be shoulder length. For me, this is waist length. At this moment I'm trying to find a whole other routine than last year because everything changed. After reaching waist, my ends became really really dry and tangly. So I used more oils and conditioners. Got build up. In the end, I've overmoisturized my hair but still my ends were really dry. So I started using hyrolyzed protein because I didn't know what do to anymore. You could say it saved my hair from too much moisture, but also my ends aren't dry anymore. And it gave me 2a hair! :D

I've learned a lot about humectants lately. It looks like they are the reason why my ends are soft and moisturized all out of a sudden, since hydrolyzed keratin is a humectant as well. So I started experimenting with them and started using products with humectants. I've noticed my all time favorite conditioner contains a lot of glycerin, which might explain a lot (next time I'm in Holland, I'm going to buy a lot of these! :p). I also use an anti-klit as a leave in, because it makes my hair soft. It contains hydrolyzed keratin and glycerin as top ingredients. I've tried SMT in the past and it didn't do much for my hair, but it's been a long time ago. I'm going to try it this Wednessday again, but without oils.

Humectants give my hair a lot of moisture, without staying on top of my hair. My hair hasn't been this silky and soft since forever. Though I must say, a lot of low-porosity hair does not like protein at all. But before you decide your hair doesn't like protein, try different ones. Hydrolyzed collagen is too much for my hair, but hydrolyzed keratin saved it.

Using humectants, especially in leave-in products, might do the trick for your hair. I'm not really sure what products you are using right now, but watch the ingredients. If you use conditioners/leave-ins with a lot humectants (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/ingredients/the-ultimate-guide-to-humectants-and-hair/) in them, and they obviously don't work, I'm probably wrong. If this is the case: I'm sorry! :p But if you notice your products do not contain humectants, you might try it.

I really hope you find something that works for you! :blossom:

Madora
August 12th, 2014, 09:37 AM
Clarify you hair with a shampoo made for that purpose. Neutrogena Anti-Residue clarifying shampoo has received good reviews here. It does its job very well and really strips your hair of all residue. Follow the clarifying with a conditioning treatment.

Now you next goal is to keep your hair as free of buildup as possible. Dilute your shampoo and your conditioner when you use them. Try and limit your oil to mineral oil (and use it very sparingly..a drop or two..on your palms, not directly on your hair). Mineral oil moisturizes, as well as helps with detangling and helps tame frizzies. It is very lightweight, has no odor, and washes out easily with your next shampoo. MO should contain as little additives as possible. Johnson and Johnson makes a baby oil that works quite well.

You might also look into daily scalp massage to encourage your follicles. Be sure to detangle your hair gently before and after your massage sessions. Lay on your bed with your head over the edge of the mattesss. Massage your scalp with your fingerpads, working in small sections.

If you're not a curly, then I recommend daily brushing, with a pure boar bristle brush. Brushing is one of the best things you can do for your hair, provided you brush correctly and use the right brush. It leaves your hair soft and shiny.

Majorane
August 12th, 2014, 01:57 PM
This might be stupid, but when I first started oiling I had similar experiences with the oil just making my hair greasy. It works much better for me if I use the teensiest bit of oil, just barely enough to make my palms shiny when I rub them between my hands. Otherwise I get greasy, dry hair.
Thanks for thinking with me! But no, I don't over oil, I think (well I did in the past, but not any more). When I have the oily sheen on my hands, I wipe them on a towel, then run them through my hair, clean my hands with soap, run them through again to absorb excess (none, but you never know) and then it gets crunchy. Or just plain greasy. Next day: Same, no absorption. My hair is on a diet, methinks.


With respect that makes no sense to me. Moisture = water, unless someone's hair is refusing to wet down in the shower then it is taking up moisture just fine. It's whether the hair holds onto the right amount that is the issue. Low porosity hair generally takes longer to dry than high porosity hair.

Plus it defies logic that someone's hair would be naturally lower porosity on the older lower sections than the newer upper sections. Hair is unavoidably 'weathered' as it ages - LHC practices aim to minimise this - this slowly erodes the water resistant fatty f-layer.
Ah, no, I might've misexplained. It's not that the top layer of my hair does absorb and the ends don't. It's more a case of, when it comes out of my head, my hair seems relatively happy and after about a year-two years of growing turns more dry and fragile, because it looses its ....moisture? Youth? and then I can't really help it to get better or just stop the new growth from following. Does that make sense?


Hello neighbor! :waving: Heeey! Hello there gorgeous!


To me it sounds like you have very low porosity hair. You got build-up pretty fast, oils just lie on top of your hair and don't soak in. Does your hair take forever to dry? Does it take a while before it's wet in the shower? Do chemicals like dye fade very fast? Do they even work at all? These are all signs your hair might be low porous. :idea: Yup, especially the slowly wet- bit and the chemicals that fade. Not when it's damaged, then it luuuurves silicones by the way.


I've heard about people whose hair acted like low porosity hair after a certain length, and for you this might be shoulder length. For me, this is waist length. At this moment I'm trying to find a whole other routine than last year because everything changed. After reaching waist, my ends became really really dry and tangly. So I used more oils and conditioners. Got build up. In the end, I've overmoisturized my hair but still my ends were really dry. So I started using hyrolyzed protein because I didn't know what do to anymore. You could say it saved my hair from too much moisture, but also my ends aren't dry anymore. And it gave me 2a hair! :D :cheer:


I've learned a lot about humectants lately. It looks like they are the reason why my ends are soft and moisturized all out of a sudden, since hydrolyzed keratin is a humectant as well. So I started experimenting with them and started using products with humectants. I've noticed my all time favorite conditioner contains a lot of glycerin, which might explain a lot (next time I'm in Holland, I'm going to buy a lot of these! :p). I also use an anti-klit as a leave in, because it makes my hair soft. It contains hydrolyzed keratin and glycerin as top ingredients. I've tried SMT in the past and it didn't do much for my hair, but it's been a long time ago. I'm going to try it this Wednessday again, but without oils. Waitwaitwait stop ho. What condish was that? I was in the drugstore today (I had already read this but hadn't replied yet) and there is a whole brand, something with a G, that has everything with 'added keratin!' on the label. The hydrolysed keratin is pretty low in the list of ingredients though, is that okay or does it have to be way way up high? I never dabbled much in this part of the haircare information because I like it better when I can concoct my things up in a kitchen, but your hair story sounds quite similar. Tell me more!


Humectants give my hair a lot of moisture, without staying on top of my hair. My hair hasn't been this silky and soft since forever. Though I must say, a lot of low-porosity hair does not like protein at all. But before you decide your hair doesn't like protein, try different ones. Hydrolyzed collagen is too much for my hair, but hydrolyzed keratin saved it.

Using humectants, especially in leave-in products, might do the trick for your hair. I'm not really sure what products you are using right now, but watch the ingredients. If you use conditioners/leave-ins with a lot humectants (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/ingredients/the-ultimate-guide-to-humectants-and-hair/) in them, and they obviously don't work, I'm probably wrong. If this is the case: I'm sorry! :p But if you notice your products do not contain humectants, you might try it.

I really hope you find something that works for you! :blossom: Thanks for your long in-depth explanation! I'm gonna read up on those humectants tomorrow. But this sounds kinda hopeful, as in, you've fixed it, maybe it's what's going wrong here too. I'm gonna dive into the whole keratin thing, too!

QUOTE=Madora;2793040]
Now you next goal is to keep your hair as free of buildup as possible. Dilute your shampoo and your conditioner when you use them. Try and limit your oil to mineral oil (and use it very sparingly..a drop or two..on your palms, not directly on your hair). Mineral oil moisturizes, as well as helps with detangling and helps tame frizzies. It is very lightweight, has no odor, and washes out easily with your next shampoo. MO should contain as little additives as possible. Johnson and Johnson makes a baby oil that works quite well. [/QUOTE] Idid not know that mineral oil was good for hair?! I thought it was all supposed to be natural vegetable oils? I happen to have a Johnson and Johnson baby oil in the bathroom cabinet!I'm gonna try it, it smells lovely. I dilute my shampoo lightly already, like a good girl. :)


You might also look into daily scalp massage to encourage your follicles. Be sure to detangle your hair gently before and after your massage sessions. Lay on your bed with your head over the edge of the mattesss. Massage your scalp with your fingerpads, working in small sections. ....I.... frequently touch my head because so nice.... Not in the exact way you've described, but I luuurve me some hair patting. :)


If you're not a curly, then I recommend daily brushing, with a pure boar bristle brush. Brushing is one of the best things you can do for your hair, provided you brush correctly and use the right brush. It leaves your hair soft and shiny. I do BBB! And the top 10 cm of my hair loves it, but then turn into a greasy helmet from the sebum (yes I clean my brush) and then I have to wash straight away or I get hairpain. I still BBB every now and then but I have been wondering about that for a while; doesn't the washing afterwards erase the benefits from the BBB? (it feels great on my scalp though. Cats have their own BBB, they love it too.)

anyhow: Thank you all so much for trying to come up with solutions, it really means a lot to me! I have sought far and wide today for a clarifying and a chelating shampoo. I want to start with experimenting with all your ideas on a clean, fresh slate.
However,clarifying and especially chelating is a very foreign concept in the Netherlands, it seems. I have found a clarifying shampoo, but no chelating ones. (Or swimmer ones!) Asked even in the hair salon supply shop, they never even heard of it. I know there's one ingredient I have to watch out for, EDTM or something, and I have found that in several of the Guhl shampoos, but again, far down the ingredient list. So, is that chelating? No, probably not.....

So, plan for now:
- I'm gonna clarify like it's 1699
- Will follow up with acidic rinse, just to be sure
- Let dry without too much hassle
- Shall see what it does tomorrow, and then think of wether to condish, rinse with catnip (did that yesterday, I did have soft hair today, but could also have been coincidence) or oil or something else, and keep on doing that whatever I choose for a few days unless my hair hates it
- will read up about products I could experiment with that have keratin, humectants, and tell my BF to stay away from the soy sauce (we have the right kind in stock, even!)
- depending on how the experiment goes, start to BBB every day or every other day if hair is not too dry. Dry ends mean no BBB though as that doesn't feel right for me
- Oh also going to see if I want to have a hair analysis.

.....What else? Comments, thoughts? Tips on where to buy chelation shampoos in the Netherlands: Hit me with it!

Again, thank you all so much for believing it is something fixable. To be honest, I belong to a branch of the family that all have frizzy, weak, easy to break hair and sad, sad nails. It could very well be something genetic, that I just have bad hair after it reaches a specific length. My granny and mom that have the same hair are both surprised my hair is at almost BSL and looking somewhat healthy, they never managed it. But it already looks much better then 3 years ago, so I'm still aiming for waist, even if it takes me 10 bloody years. ARGH!

Chromis
August 12th, 2014, 03:20 PM
- I'm gonna clarify like it's 1699

Better churn some butter after you are done....after all if whey is good for hair, then surely so must buttermilk :silly:

Also, "Well I am know I'm a million times as hairy as thou art!"

Johannah
August 13th, 2014, 04:31 AM
If you really want to try different proteins, I'd make sure they're quite high in the list so you know if it works for you or not. You're probably talking about Gliss Kur, right? It has a lot of shampoos/conditioners with hydrolyzed keratin in them, but as the 10th ingredient or so. The conditioner that saved my hair is from Andrélon. The line is called Keratine Repair. It's the fourth ingredient. Though it contains cones, so you could get build-up pretty fast if you don't use SLS (at least, in my experience). You might want to change to an SLS shampoo (and use it diluted) because you're prone to build up. But off course, that's your own choice.

Products with hydrolyzed protein list:
- Gliss Kur Ultimate Volume shampoo (€4.99): hydrolyzed collagen and hydrolyzed keratin (http://saarenzo.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/review-gliss-kur-ultimate-volume-shampoo-conditioner-3.jpg?w=640&h=384). Perfect IMO: contains SLS so clean hair without build-up, but no cones.
- Gliss Kur Ultimate Volume conditioner (€5.49): especially hydrolyzed collagen, but also hydrolyzed keratin (http://saarenzo.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/review-gliss-kur-ultimate-volume-shampoo-conditioner-4.jpg?w=640&h=384). Does not contain cones.
- Gliss Kur Liquid Silk conditioner (€4.99): hydrolyzed silk, but not really high in the ingredients (http://www.glisskur.schwarzkopf.be/glisskur/be/nl/home/products-solutions/product-lines/liquid-silk/liquid-silk-conditioner.html). Haven't found a conditioner with hydrolyzed silk high in ingredients yet. Does contain cones.
- Andrélon keratine repair conditioner (€4.79): hydrolyzed keratin (http://static.misslipgloss.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/P13106201-595x580.jpg). Does contain cones.
- Andrélon keratine anti-klit spray (€4.99): hydrolyzed keratin and glycerin (http://static.misslipgloss.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/P1310754-595x712.jpg). Does contain cones.

Products with glycerin list:
- Andrélon Oil & Care anti-klit spray (€3.49): glycerin (http://oi57.tinypic.com/2we04fc.jpg). Does contain cones.
- Petal Fresh Tea Tree conditioner (€6.99): glycerin (http://s2.folica.com/img/product/0/009134/ingredients/petal-fresh-organics-tea-tree-conditioner-416x416.jpg). Does not contain cones.
- Petal Fresh Tea tree shampoo (€6.99): does not contain glycerin, but maybe you're just interested in the ingredients (http://www.beautylab.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/petal-fresh-ingredients_.png), I don't know :p Does not contain cones or SLS and it has a lovely minty smell.

Interesting articles list:
- Protein part 1 (http://thenaturalhaven.blogspot.com/2009/06/size-matters-protein-conditioning-part.html) & part 2 (http://thenaturalhaven.blogspot.com/2009/06/protein-conditioners-for-hair-part-2-of_03.html)
- Glycerin article 1 (http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/05/glycerin-good-stuff-in-funny-form.html), article 2 (http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2010/03/moisture-issue-glycerin-is-your-friend.html) & article 3 (http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2010/03/moisture-issue-glycerin-science-bit.html)
- Moisturizing low porosity hair (http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.be/2014/07/moisturizing-low-porosity-hair.html)

Majorane
August 13th, 2014, 05:09 AM
Ahhhh, Glisskur and Andrelon are both on sale at Etos or Kruidvat, I think - Gliss Kur is for sure!! I'm absolutely gonna buy some of the Ultimate Volume, even if it's just to see that it doesn't work for my hair. Thank you, so much, for the effort of putting this up! I'm gonna read my ass of for now, and will report back.

Thanks, it's really awesome you've made such a list!! (need me to send you some antiklit or Andrelon?)

Johannah
August 13th, 2014, 05:58 AM
Ahhhh, Glisskur and Andrelon are both on sale at Etos or Kruidvat, I think - Gliss Kur is for sure!! I'm absolutely gonna buy some of the Ultimate Volume, even if it's just to see that it doesn't work for my hair. Thank you, so much, for the effort of putting this up! I'm gonna read my ass of for now, and will report back.

Thanks, it's really awesome you've made such a list!! (need me to send you some antiklit or Andrelon?)

Haha, you're welcome! And no, you don't need to, but thank you! :flower: I live very close to the Netherlands so it's not such a big deal for me to go there (10 min with the car).

Good luck with everything!! :blossom:

Oh, another thing. Like I said, the Ultimate Volume is too much for me because it's REALLY high in protein (especially collagen). If I use it on my hair without anything else, my hair becomes dry. But if I use a moisturizing conditioner afterwards, my hair is really soft (right now I CWC using this as the first C). So if you try it, and you think it doesn't work, try a moisturizing conditioner afterwards as well because it can make a big difference!