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View Full Version : adding to regular routine: advice?



amanda_the_tall
July 14th, 2014, 10:26 PM
Hello everyone,
Lately I've noticed as my hair has gotten longer the ends are getting more dry and tangly. (I'm almost back to BSL YAY!) After being mostly cone free for a long time (so long I can't remember, maybe a year?) I have returned to cones and that has tremendously helped my hair (so far, now I've jinxed it). Anyways, I am wondering about deep conditioning. A few questions:

A. Would doing an overnight oiling, then shampooing as normal, then putting on a deep conditioner be a stupid idea? I feel like it could help retain extra moisture that way but I don't know. Right now I have Neutrogena Triple Moisture shampoo which has Sodium Trideceth Sulfate, is that like a regular sulfate? Not sure.

B. Would coconut oil or sweet almond oil work better for deep conditioning? Could I mix that in with one of my very coney deep conditioners or would that even make sense since cones can keep oils from penetrating, yes?

C. Does sweet almond oil penetrate the hair shaft similar to coconut oil? I ask because I use that on my body already so if that would work I'd just stick to that.

D. Could I put the deep conditioner on dry hair, or would that make any difference?

If it makes any difference, I'm daily S/C. Sorry for all the questions, thanks for any replies! :D

Anje
July 14th, 2014, 10:40 PM
Have you clarified recently? Sometimes ends just need a good extra cleaning to pull off the buildup that the extra conditioner and oil and whatnot causes. It's a good place to start, and often fixes things. If you haven't, start with that, then follow up with a soak in deep conditioner (up to about a half hour is optimal).

All the rest of your ideas are also good ones. They're just not the first thing I would try. As for almond oil, it doesn't tend to penetrate the way coconut oil does, but if your hair likes it, there's no reason not to use it.

amanda_the_tall
July 15th, 2014, 11:06 AM
Hi Anje, I did do a 'clarifying' last week with Suave shampoo. However I didn't use the clarifying one, would that make a difference since it isn't designated as clarifying? It did make my hair feel better, but the last few inches still were somewhat tangly/ dry feeling.

lapushka
July 15th, 2014, 11:19 AM
You might try double conditioning instead of deep conditioning (same effect, but if you don't have a deep conditioner handy, this works as well, maybe even better). The link to the WCC thread is in my signature. I would not use the oil in this case.

I agree with Anje, try clarifying. Any sulfate, no silicone, shampoo will do the trick. If once doesn't work, try doing it twice.

Anje
July 15th, 2014, 11:49 AM
It might be worth giving them a second round, just to be sure, especially since the first clarifying did make a difference. (After all, there can be a lot of buildup where it takes a few washes.)

One other thing to look at and bear in mind -- some people (like me) have problems with using conditioners with protein in their hair regularly. That can cause dry and tangly ends that typically feel stiff and sticky. There are things to rule out before you start looking at protein, because it is often beneficial to hair, but it's worth noting it if you're not able to shake the dry tangles by more conventional means.

It's pretty common knowledge around here that I'm a huge fan of a deep treatment called an SMT. (Heck, I have a link to it in my signature.) For me, it really makes a difference with rough, tangly ends that aren't caused by buildup. More of a difference than oil makes for me -- my hair does like its humectants, and SMTs are intense for getting moisture back into hair. It might be worth giving that a try after clarifying and see how it makes your hair feel.

Firefox7275
July 19th, 2014, 12:38 PM
Hello everyone,
Lately I've noticed as my hair has gotten longer the ends are getting more dry and tangly. (I'm almost back to BSL YAY!) After being mostly cone free for a long time (so long I can't remember, maybe a year?) I have returned to cones and that has tremendously helped my hair (so far, now I've jinxed it). Anyways, I am wondering about deep conditioning. A few questions:

A. Would doing an overnight oiling, then shampooing as normal, then putting on a deep conditioner be a stupid idea? I feel like it could help retain extra moisture that way but I don't know. Right now I have Neutrogena Triple Moisture shampoo which has Sodium Trideceth Sulfate, is that like a regular sulfate? Not sure.

B. Would coconut oil or sweet almond oil work better for deep conditioning? Could I mix that in with one of my very coney deep conditioners or would that even make sense since cones can keep oils from penetrating, yes?

C. Does sweet almond oil penetrate the hair shaft similar to coconut oil? I ask because I use that on my body already so if that would work I'd just stick to that.

D. Could I put the deep conditioner on dry hair, or would that make any difference?

If it makes any difference, I'm daily S/C. Sorry for all the questions, thanks for any replies! :D

A. Overnight oiling and conditioning are largely two different animals: the right oil penetrates the inner cortex *reducing* the amount of water (moisture) the hair holds, conditioner primarily coats the outer cuticle patch repairing that and often also helps the hair the *right amount* of water. A few ingredients in intensive conditioners can penetrate but most do not. Great articles on deep conditioning on the Natural Haven blog.

B. Not aware of any evidence normal use of silicones prevent oils penetrating. Might possibly if you had incredible plasticky build up but you would be aware of that.

C. Sweet almond oil is rich in oleic acid which can penetrate the cuticle, tho to a lesser extent than the lauric acid in coconut oil because the molecule is longer/ larger. If you like the results (I use both for different purposes) go for it.

D. Conditioners are formulated to adhere to damp hair, and most ingredients are water miscible. Time and temperature are relevant, again see the Natural Haven blog.

amanda_the_tall
August 3rd, 2014, 07:51 PM
It might be worth giving them a second round, just to be sure, especially since the first clarifying did make a difference. (After all, there can be a lot of buildup where it takes a few washes.)

One other thing to look at and bear in mind -- some people (like me) have problems with using conditioners with protein in their hair regularly. That can cause dry and tangly ends that typically feel stiff and sticky. There are things to rule out before you start looking at protein, because it is often beneficial to hair, but it's worth noting it if you're not able to shake the dry tangles by more conventional means.

It's pretty common knowledge around here that I'm a huge fan of a deep treatment called an SMT. (Heck, I have a link to it in my signature.) For me, it really makes a difference with rough, tangly ends that aren't caused by buildup. More of a difference than oil makes for me -- my hair does like its humectants, and SMTs are intense for getting moisture back into hair. It might be worth giving that a try after clarifying and see how it makes your hair feel.


A. Overnight oiling and conditioning are largely two different animals: the right oil penetrates the inner cortex *reducing* the amount of water (moisture) the hair holds, conditioner primarily coats the outer cuticle patch repairing that and often also helps the hair the *right amount* of water. A few ingredients in intensive conditioners can penetrate but most do not. Great articles on deep conditioning on the Natural Haven blog.

B. Not aware of any evidence normal use of silicones prevent oils penetrating. Might possibly if you had incredible plasticky build up but you would be aware of that.

C. Sweet almond oil is rich in oleic acid which can penetrate the cuticle, tho to a lesser extent than the lauric acid in coconut oil because the molecule is longer/ larger. If you like the results (I use both for different purposes) go for it.

D. Conditioners are formulated to adhere to damp hair, and most ingredients are water miscible. Time and temperature are relevant, again see the Natural Haven blog.

I did an SMT the other day, which resulted in snarly snarly hair. My goodness it was crazy. I recently bought a sulfate free shampoo thinking maybe that would help with moisture retention, and went cone free to see if that would help anything, but alas that combo just made my hair go even more nutso, I used it for 2 weeks and it seemed to build up. I'm now back to using sulfates and cones again, I'm starting to wonder if I should just get a trim since majority of the tangling is either the back of my head (where the water hits in the shower, and my scrubbing technique also creates tangles there) and at the very ends of my hair. I'm so frustrated with fighting with tangles and breaking the hairs. I think protein overload might be an issue, since I had been protein free for the most part of two years, I have been using a protein/cone loaded conditioner daily for the past month (minus the 2 week stint with the sulfate/cone free s&c) and that may be the issue. I feel if I just pull it up and leave it alone it'd be fine but I don't want to grow my hair out then be completely unable to wear it down due to tangles....

Panth
August 4th, 2014, 02:26 AM
Do you have hard water and/or do you swim? Have you chelated?

amanda_the_tall
August 7th, 2014, 04:30 PM
Do you have hard water and/or do you swim? Have you chelated?

We have soft water here and I don't swim. I think the problem was the shampoo I was using. I was using neutrogena triple moisture shampoo, then I switched to a sulfate free shampoo and also changed conditioner and I guess my hair just can't do sulfate free. I was going to go back to my triple moisture one but it smelled WEIRD kinda like when you let clothes sour in the washer machine... So I used some leftover shampoo from before my experiment with 'gentler' shampoos and used my coney conditioner and today I put a tiny bit of the generic conditioning balm as a leave in and voila! Hair is happy and mostly tangle free and fluffy. I guess I will have to stick with the sulfates and hope it doesn't damage my hair.

akuamoonmaui
August 7th, 2014, 09:44 PM
I highly recommend oiling, but as an every other day habit. Of course, only using oil minimally to maintain conditioning and control frizzies. I've also recently tried a vinegar rinse which I'm in love with. It makes my hair shiny and the conditioners I use more efficient. The vinegar rinse is a 1:5 ratio.

ravenreed
August 7th, 2014, 11:08 PM
My hair doesn't get on well with SMTs because of the humectants. Sulfate free shampoos usually have either humectants or proteins or both, and my hair doesn't get on well with either of them. I suggest getting an actual clarifying shampoo, such as the one Suave has, and using that a couple of times until your hair settles down.


I did an SMT the other day, which resulted in snarly snarly hair. My goodness it was crazy. I recently bought a sulfate free shampoo thinking maybe that would help with moisture retention, and went cone free to see if that would help anything, but alas that combo just made my hair go even more nutso, I used it for 2 weeks and it seemed to build up. I'm now back to using sulfates and cones again, I'm starting to wonder if I should just get a trim since majority of the tangling is either the back of my head (where the water hits in the shower, and my scrubbing technique also creates tangles there) and at the very ends of my hair. I'm so frustrated with fighting with tangles and breaking the hairs. I think protein overload might be an issue, since I had been protein free for the most part of two years, I have been using a protein/cone loaded conditioner daily for the past month (minus the 2 week stint with the sulfate/cone free s&c) and that may be the issue. I feel if I just pull it up and leave it alone it'd be fine but I don't want to grow my hair out then be completely unable to wear it down due to tangles....