Help Finding True Raven Black Hair

[MelissaGT]

Hello! I've been a "creeper" on this forum for quite some time and I've read great information so far. However, I was hoping I could get some help for my specific situation - finding raven black or blue/black hair that has dye-resistant silver and also currently is "henndigoed." I've been using pre-mixed henna & indigo for about two years now. Brands varied between Henna Maiden and Rainbow Research. Things started out great, but over the past couple years, the stubborn silver hair at my temples is getting more and more resistant to the "henndigo." I've read about the two step process, but to be honest, I just don't have the time/effort for that! Using the "henndigo" mixture takes enough time - 3hrs to sit and about an hour in the shower getting the grit out.

Anyways, my natural hair color is a dark brown with reddish highlights, however because my eyebrows are black people have always assumed that the black was my natural color. I used to use drug store boxed black dyes (mostly L'Oreal Feria) until I switched to the "henndigo." Before switching, my hair was starting to thin and fallout was pretty bad. After leaving boxed dyes behind, my hair has thickened back up and fallout is minimal. My goal is to get that raven hair back that I used to get from a boxed dye while still keeping nice, healthy hair. My "henndigo" hair looks awesome under the right light (while hiding the resistant silvers), but if I go outside in the sun and it shines through my hair, forget it, it's red. I've heard that even with the two step process, you'll always have that red because of the henna. Is there another alternative for me? I've kinda locked myself out of a lot of options due to the indigo and growing it out really isn't an option. I've read about Manic Panic and Special Effects blue, however I've also read they turn hair green. Can anybody share their experience WITHOUT bleaching hair first? I've provided some pics of my "henndigo" hair:

With flash:
http://s103.photobucket.com/user/melissastjames/media/flash_zpsbcce632a.jpg.html

Normal indoor, no flash:
http://s103.photobucket.com/user/melissastjames/media/normallight_zpsd7b72ac6.jpg.html

Fluorescent lighting:
http://s103.photobucket.com/user/melissastjames/media/kitchenlight_zpsb63178ec.jpg.html

Sunlight from a window, not shining through hair:
http://s103.photobucket.com/user/melissastjames/media/sunlight_zpsc0acc9ce.jpg.html

My current hair-care regimen includes all-natural shampoo bar daily (I switch brands after each bar) followed by ACV rinse (every other day). I blow-dry maybe 2-3x per week. I don't use any other product. Any help is greatly appreciated!

[MelissaGT]

Well, those pictures didn't work...let's try this again!

Flash:
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m134/melissastjames/flash_zpsbcce632a.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/melissastjames/media/flash_zpsbcce632a.jpg.html)

Fluorescent lighting:
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m134/melissastjames/kitchenlight_zpsb63178ec.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/melissastjames/media/kitchenlight_zpsb63178ec.jpg.html)

Indoor:
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m134/melissastjames/normallight_zpsd7b72ac6.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/melissastjames/media/normallight_zpsd7b72ac6.jpg.html)

Sunlight through a window, not shining through hair to reveal red:
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m134/melissastjames/sunlight_zpsc0acc9ce.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/melissastjames/media/sunlight_zpsc0acc9ce.jpg.html)

[MandyBeth]

That's darker than I get with two step indigo. Honestly, if you use henna, I don't think you'll ever get all the red out.

I use MP Raven overnight, then After Midnight for several hours. I am full on blue black. But it's as much work as indigo.

[MelissaGT]

That's darker than I get with two step indigo. Honestly, if you use henna, I don't think you'll ever get all the red out.

I use MP Raven overnight, then After Midnight for several hours. I am full on blue black. But it's as much work as indigo.

Thank you for the response! Do you bleach your hair before using the MP? Also, do you ever get any green from it? I really wanted to try the MP in either After Midnight or Raven, however I've read so many reviews on it turning green.

I'm not so much worried about the work. The thing I absolutely hate the most about the "henndigo" is that it's takes so long to wash out. I'm in the shower for at least an hour and it's horrible because I'll go through almost a whole bar getting the stuff out. And afterwords, my hair is a pure rat's nest.

I saw luxepiggy's threads and her hair is amazing! That's what I'm hoping to be able to achieve as I'm pretty sure I read she started with Special Effects.

[MelissaGT]

I also forgot to mention that I don't have anybody to help me apply the "henndigo," so a two-step process is definitely out of the question! I have to work it into my hair by myself while bent over the tub! I'm really looking for an easier solution that can also help cover my silver hairs more and cut out some of the red that shines through while outside.

[Sharysa]

Looks like you've got a soft reddish black instead of the rarer blue-black. I'm Filipino and without a fresh oiling, my hair is almost the exact color of yours. Plus, it's very common to see red/brown tones in most black-haired people.

There's about three shades of black that most black-haired cultures recognize (matte/soft black with red or brown tones, jet black with no undertones, and blue/iridescent-black), so I'd say you're good! Your hair looks a lot more natural than some shades of blue-black dye.

[molljo]

You've mentioned how you're worried about it turning your hair green by going the MP/SE route, but I wonder if the red in the henna might cancel out whatever greenish cast you may get (and you might not even get it). Have you looked for reviews of people who have used those dyes over henndigoed hair specifically? It could be worth it to just do a strand test to find out.

[MandyBeth]

I don't bleach and I don't see any green tint. However, I'm reddish toned naturally, so the red helps counter act any green.

Plus, I'm not allowing for washing everything out which is when the lines mostly go murky. I Raven and After Midnight every 8 weeks, then throw Rockabilly Blue on in between. Since I've been applying for so long, I'm not sure my ends will fade. I can skip my ends repeatedly and they are staying dark.

All of this however is on my issue of wanting true 1N black. But I can't get the true N. I can have a vicious red cast (soft black) or to this dark blue black. If I could get as true 1N, I'd be happy.

[MelissaGT]

Thank you for the responses! MandyBeth, how many jars do you think I will need. My hair is almost down to my bra-strap and there's a lot of it. I bought two jars but I'm thinking that might not be enough. If I need three jars for one coloring that will be expensive at $10 per jar. Right now my "henndigo" costs me about $17 per application ever 2-3 months.

I think i will try a strand test. My local Sally Beauty only has the original MP After Midnight, not the amplified version.

[MelissaGT]

Update - I let a test strip sit overnight and it appears there's no difference with MP After Midnight. I think I'm just going to have to stick to my "henndigo" and hopefully my silvers will grow in enough so that my temples aren't salt and pepper, but appear to be more of a strip, like Stacey London.

[MelissaGT]

I had another thought - would it be possible for me try pure indigo rather than a mix? I've read that it doesn't adhere well, but I do have a "henndigo" base. I really can't find much online other than people saying you can't, but others saying try it with no actual results to go by.

[MINAKO]

My hair is naturally softblack, i get i slightly darker with a one step henndigo and boost the blue with a color conditioner, so depending on the day and also on the light it looks jetblack to blueblack. I have used indigo alone before and it definitely turns out more intense on the cool side, but i found it wasn't worth the difference as it aslo felt a bit drying. I would recommend to deposit dye on top every once in a while. Revlon Nutricolor in 100 and Pravana Chromasilk Vivids are very good. Sometimes Blue can look too artificial tho, i also had great results mixing an emerald shade of green in.

[MelissaGT]

My hair is naturally softblack, i get i slightly darker with a one step henndigo and boost the blue with a color conditioner, so depending on the day and also on the light it looks jetblack to blueblack. I have used indigo alone before and it definitely turns out more intense on the cool side, but i found it wasn't worth the difference as it aslo felt a bit drying. I would recommend to deposit dye on top every once in a while. Revlon Nutricolor in 100 and Pravana Chromasilk Vivids are very good. Sometimes Blue can look too artificial tho, i also had great results mixing an emerald shade of green in.

Thanks for the hints! Looks like I can get Pravana on Amazon Prime, which is nice.

If I were to try a deposit dye and I don't like the results, would I be able to "henndigo" over it again or would I be stuck with it? I checked out my MP After Midnight test strip in the sun and it definitely has a green "swamp-monster" cast if the light shines through it.

[MINAKO]

I think a deposit dye on already black/very dark hair never shows up strong enough and fades within a few washes anyways. Of course you can henndigo over it or just do a glossing treatment if the blue sheen is too intense, but that never happened to me. I actually like the hint of blue/green when light shines through, it very subtle tho, nobody apart from myself would probably even notice. Having black hair makes layering the colors on top of each other fairly easy, the ones i mentioned are beneficial to my hair and never caused any damage at all, so there are as many tries as you need to get it perfect.

[MelissaGT]

I think a deposit dye on already black/very dark hair never shows up strong enough and fades within a few washes anyways. Of course you can henndigo over it or just do a glossing treatment if the blue sheen is too intense, but that never happened to me. I actually like the hint of blue/green when light shines through, it very subtle tho, nobody apart from myself would probably even notice. Having black hair makes layering the colors on top of each other fairly easy, the ones i mentioned are beneficial to my hair and never caused any damage at all, so there are as many tries as you need to get it perfect.

Thank you so much for your help! I need to order some more Henna Maiden from Amazon. Normally I use two 100g packs for my hair. I think I'll try the Envious Black which is a mixture of henna, indigo and other herbs like amla, with a 2nd pack of just indigo to get the extra "oomph" of blue. We'll see how that turns out!