help, help, help!!! (protein overload)

[Beaglebuddy]

I know someone recently posted about dryness/damage from protein treatments, but I need more help so I am posting another topic. I also realize a lot of people on here don't use products like Nexxus Emergencee on their long hair but I hope I can find some help anyways.

It started last winter. From July'07 - Jan '08 I did COwashing. It made my hair fall out/break so badly my hair was all wispy ends all over the place. So about approximately April I decided to try Nexxus Emergencee as I had read good reviews on Makeupalley and thought it might help.
I did the treatment, and I am sure now did not use enough moisture after any of the treatments I did but it is too late now. The results were really great. So then in May, 4 weeks later, I did another one, not as good but still liked results enough. Then in June did the last one and ever since then, my hair has been terrible, worse because of humidity on top because that just made my hair drier, frizzier, etc. But even still now when I use products like Nexxus Therappe and Humectress (which I really liked before) my hair goes poof, anything that has more than just a little bit of protein. Mind you my hair is not breaking anymore!
Can I get my hair back to the way it was when I could use the products with protein. I never could use high protein stuff, but most products with some protein were okay. I like Nexxus and would like to be able to use it again without looking like a mushroom.
I know that moisture is the real answer so I have been using monoi oil once a week for a deep treatment and other days using SMTs as a preshampoo treatment almost every time. Is it okay to do SMT preshampoo treatments every day? I do wash my hair every day as that is the way it always looked the nicest and as long as I did oil treatments regularly didn't have a major problem with dryness. As I said at first, I did CO and had terrible fallout with that.
Any other ways to get the moisture back in?
I am open to any suggestions.
Thanks

[wintersun99]

Clarify and try and SMT... perhaps :)

[Beaglebuddy]

Okay, that's something I really have not truly tried is clarifying, although to be honest I am afraid it'll dry it out worse. Maybe not with an SMT though!

[Anje]

I'd recommend clarifying as well. I suspect a lot of the products you're using have cones in them, and depending on the shampoo you're using, could definitely build up. That would eventually lead to dryness. Follow it up with a nice, long SMT.

Is there a chance you can get by without shampooing every day? I know that would make my hair dry and frizzy. I've been doing CO and have some increased shedding with it too, but I had minimal shedding with WO. If you could get by with rinsing your hair well when it looked greasy, and then shampoo only a few times a week, it might help.

Finally, you're talking about using an SMT pre-shampoo. Are you conditioning your hair post-shampoo? A few people get away with not using conditioner after shampooing, but most of us don't. I'd recommend using one, at least from the ears down. You don't have to put it on your scalp.

[Beaglebuddy]

Thank you Anje: Your advice is very helpful. I am going to try clarifying to see if that helps, as both you and wintersun99 mentioned that, and I have not tried that yet. I do think the SMTs are going to help too. I can't believe how soft my hair is, the softest it has been all summer. But still needs work.

I have tried going longer between shampoos and my hair just seemed to get drier every day I went between. Now, I didn't wet my hair or anything, just brushed on the nonwash days. Maybe wetting hair on nonwash days would help.

Yes, when I use the SMT as preshampoo, I then shampoo and condition as always. The way my hair feels right now it needs any moisture it can get.

[Speedbump]

Another thing to consider is the fact that most Nexxus products have mineral oil in them. Mineral oil has to be shampooed out, in my experience, and sticks on like glue, too. I use Nexxus Color Ensure conditioner all the time specifically because it does NOT have that substandard ingredient in it.

I agree with the others: Clarify, then use a deep treatment of some kind. Be careful when making SMT, because some conditioners react badly with the aloe vera gel and form what I call "noogies," which is really like "conditioner boogers" and yes, they are almost impossible to get out without shampooing again. And yes, Nexxus Color Ensure is one of those conditioners. Ask me how I know. :oops: :lol:

[Arctic_Mama]

My hair was co-washed for about two years awhile back and its texture was matted and horrid despite my best efforts. It worked well enough, but sometimes a good clarifier is what is needed to get it back to good. I chopped it off before I tried some shampoo for a bit and I DEEPLY regret that.

A protein reconstructor is a GREAT idea too, and maybe just switching up your products for a month to see if that is what is causing the issue. I found that heavier conditioners actually made my dry hair worse, oddly enough, so maybe experimenting with a lighter formula may help it be more lustrous and springy without the poof?

Good luck and I hope you find a workable solution sooner than later!

[Lisa-Maria]

If you're worried about dryness clairfy and then put som olive oil on your lenght/ends while your hair's still wet/moist. If you find your hair's to oily after it has dried just wash it again with some dilutet 'poo. At least that's what I would do :)

[Beaglebuddy]

Thank you Speedbump and Arctic_Mama. You all have been so helpful. Tonight I am going to clarify using Neutrogena Anti-Residue and do a long SMT afterwards.

So far, for SMTs I have used Nature's Gate Jojoba conditioner (which I hated and didn't try another SMT for almost 2 years), VO5 Calming Chamomile and VO5 Sunkissed Raspberry. The VO5 ones are working great. The SMTs really do seem to help, so maybe after a good clarifying and SMT my hair will be back to normal or near it.

[Beaglebuddy]

Lisa-Maria, that's a good idea. I do use olive oil and love it for heavy oil treatments once in a while, so maybe your suggestion would work too. Lots of ideas to try!

[Beaglebuddy]

Well, I did my clarifying and then followed up with SMT. I have come to the conclusion it is the Neutrogena AntiResidue shampoo I clarified with that is making my hair so dry. Everyweek since I did my protein treatments, I oiled with olive or monoi oil. Then to get it out I would use the Neutrogena on before wetting my hair, and I really put too much on (3 handfuls). But I didn't really consider this clarifying, just getting the oil out. And I do think to a point the oil protected if I left enough in, but most times I overdid and stripped the oil all out But anyways, Thursday night I just clarified and used the SMT and my hair feels quite coarse and poofy and dry, and up till then, from the SMTs it felt not too bad. I do think it is the clarifying shampoo that is making my hair act so bad, although I do think it is dry because of the protein treatment. I hope you understand what I mean.

So maybe the best bet would be for me to just do SMTs everyday as my preshampoo, follow with shampoo and conditioner? Is doing the SMTs as preshampoo unbeneficial do you think? I think the SMTs would be more beneficial than the oil treatments, because they are moisture and oil is not, is that true.

I know Anje that you recommended that I not shampoo so much, but I don't think that is what is causing the dryness as I usually use moisturizing stuff and before the protein treatments and all the clarifying my hair felt pretty good shampooing daily. It really is what makes my hair look the best because under all the poofiness my hair is thin to top it off and second day hair is not very nice looking. But then neither is this poofiness. I am lost as to what to do really.

[Kirin]

My hair after doing CO for about for months started doing the same thing. I couldn't tell you if its from protein because I am pretty sure I avoid protein my products like the plague. One thing that has helped is clarifying, and using cholesterol treatments.

Mineral oil is pretty controversial around here and some get a little........ aggressive about it, but the reality is some people's hair really loves it, mine included in that quota. It has been the one thing (softee cholesterol) that moisturizes my hair. Its inexpensive, easy to find in the ethnic hair aisles of stores and worth a shot if SMT's don't work.

If you do choose to use cholesterol, look for the softee brand, not the queen helene. Queen Helene is extremely greasy and difficult to get out, while Softee is not.

[Teacherbear]

I can't use protein treatments. My ends end up dry and pokey (they poke my arms like little needles). If I use protein and I get those results, I will wash with baking soda mixed with my shampoo, then use my regular products. It often takes a few washings before my hair returns to normal, but it does - as long as I lay off the heavy-protein products.

Good luck!

[maskedrose]

I think I might be unclear on this, but I believe you said that you use 3 handfuls of clarifying shampoo on dry hair in order to get oil out after a deep treatment? In my personal experience, I've found that deep oil treatments are best followed up by a diluted shampoo wash on the scalp only, followed by a heavy conditioning on the length. I've found that if I let the conditioner soak while I do other showerly things, once I rinse out the overly-oily feeling is gone from my hair but it still feels super moisturized and shiny. I also follow every wash with a pea size dollop of coconut oil as a leave in on damp hair.

Maybe the main problem is that even though you are doing deep treatments, you are so worried about washing them out with a harsh shampoo that it is not doing you any good - possibly making the situation worse.

Also, I know how it goes to have hair that doesn't look perfect if you don't wash for a day or two. However, I slowely stretched out washes over a couple of months and now I can happily go 2 or 3 days between washes. I usually wear my hair up on my non-wash days since I don't think it looks all that great down - at least my vanity is also protecting my hair from damage!

[Melisande]

Everyweek since I did my protein treatments, I oiled with olive or monoi oil. Then to get it out I would use the Neutrogena on before wetting my hair, and I really put too much on (3 handfuls). But I didn't really consider this clarifying, just getting the oil out. And I do think to a point the oil protected if I left enough in, but most times I overdid and stripped the oil all out

I know Anje that you recommended that I not shampoo so much, but I don't think that is what is causing the dryness as I usually use moisturizing stuff and before the protein treatments and all the clarifying my hair felt pretty good shampooing daily.

Shampoo does not moisturize. Check your shampoo, the most prominent ingredient is detergent of some kind, often in combination. Do not think of shampoo as moisturizing or caring or whatever is written on the bottle - think of it as detergent. Used too often or in high concentration or both, it will make the scalp itch or overproduce sebum in order to compensate, make hair dry and brittle and cause all kind of problems.

Modern detergents strip skin, hair and scalp of oil so completely that it damages them. Personally, I suspect that the upsurge in allergies in the last few years may well be connected with the uncritical and excessive use of these modern chemicals which mankind did not know until the 20th century.

It is absolutely not necessary to counteract the beneficial effects of olive oil by shampooing so harshly. This is the way I shampoo out olive oil (which I use frequently and love): CWC with highly diluted, very gentle, non-SLS shampoo. You wouldn't believe it but the olive oil is gone.

I would advise you to stretch out washings and dilute your shampoo. And continue to oil your hair. If you feel the olive oil is difficult to wash out, use a lighter oil, or mix it with conditioner or egg that act as emulsifiers. If your hair is poofy and dry, shampoo won't "fix" it. Mist it with a gentle mixture containing distilled water and some drops of oil.

[Beaglebuddy]

Thank you for all the replies.

I am sure now that I have been stripping my hair with the clarifying shampoo.

I am going to try an oil treatment and use a more gentle way of getting it out.

I would like to decrease the shampooing, but I have to find someway that I'll be happy with the days I don't wash. I know at first it'll take an adjustment period but I will try it and see.

I have been using SMTs every wash and hair feels a touch better today then yesterday or the day before.

[spidermom]

I think you should do SMT after shampooing, not before. You can apply it to the bottom half of your hair since your scalp didn't like CO and probably shouldn't have conditioner on it. Then put a plastic bag over it, secure with scrunchie, and apply heat, either by stuffing the whole thing under a roomy wool hat or sitting with a heating pad (towel over the heating pad). Rinse thoroughly after about an hour.

Oh, and clarify first, as already suggested. I second the idea to wash your hair CWC style with diluted shampoo. Try this every other day, with a water-only rinse the days you don't wash if you feel you must do something. However, your hair is most vulnerable to damage when it's wet, so I think it's a good idea to keep it dry on the days between washing.

[Beaglebuddy]

Thank you Spidermom! I did clarify on Friday, and my hair was so terribly dry. So i did a SMT preshampoo yesterday and today and my hair feels somewhat better. I guess I should try the SMT after the shampoo and see how that works but so far I do like it as a preshampoo too.

I am going to try skipping a day. I think I may have to water-only because the last time I tried going longer between shampoos, each day I went between washes, my hair seemed to get dryer, although the scalp seemed oily enough. Probably should have used a BBB to get the oil from the scalp down the length, although I don't really like a BBB as it seems to hurt my scalp.

[spidermom]

That's exactly why I recommend SMT after shampoo, because your complaint is dryness. You want to hold that moisture in your hair, not shampoo it away. A few drops of olive or coconut oil massaged through your length on damp hair after a shampoo is good for holding moisture in your hair as well. I don't see a posted length for your hair. On shorter hair, you can massage a drop of oil among fingertips, and then pinch-stroke it onto the bottom 1/3 to 1/2 of your hair. If longer, distribute the oil between palms, then stroke it onto your hair between your hands. At my length, I use a scrape of coconut oil big enough to cover one fingernail (because coconut oil is solid at cool temperatures), massaged between palms, then onto hair. For olive oil, only use a drop or two, depending on length.

[Beaglebuddy]

Sorry, forgot to put that info into my profile.

What you said makes sense about keeping the moisture in, not shampooing it away. So I will try the SMTs after, instead.

I have tried oiling after shampoo, but I think I always put it too far up. And somehow, it always managed to get up to my scalp somehow and make me greasy. I know a lot of my problems are I don't know how and don't read properly and just go and do something any old way, expecting to get the proper results. Now, I can try just the bottom 1/3 first and if that works okay, I'll work up to halfway up.