Thinking about Citric Acid

[schnibbles]

Hi everyone!

I have hard well water and this definitely affects the condition of my hair. I have tried Paul Mitchell's #3 swimmer's shampoo, my scalp hates it, and I otherwise was not all that impressed. What my hair and scalp can both agree on is that they both love Neutrogena Anti-Residue shampoo. Looking at the ingredients, I noticed it contains citric acid. :idea: I have a feeling that the citric acid might be what my hair is responding to so well. The full ingredient list if you're curious:
Water, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Sodium Chloride, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Glycerin, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Citric Acid, DMDM Hydantoin, Fragrance
I would use the Neutrogena everytime I wash my hair, but it's probably too harsh. I wash about every 3 days. I cannot stress enough how nice my hair is after I use Neutrogena..but probably a regular diet of it would not be so amazing.

I know there are some people who do citric acid rinses. What would a good ratio/recipe be? I was also thinking about possibly simply just adding some citric acid to my regular shampoo... bad idea? I would test a small batch first, of course..

On a related note, I discovered LemiShine for the dishwasher about a year ago, I love this stuff and our dishes look 100% better since using it. I assumed LemiShine was just citric acid, but upon further investigation, I see where the LemiShine people have made the ingredients proprietary "trade secret." This article from a chemistry blog (http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2012/05/18/whats-in-lemi-shine/) (by azmanam) is very interesting, where he tests the components of LemiShine a million different ways, and still can't exactly nail down what's in it. He has an educated guess, based on the data, and he's probably right...but I wonder if there are also trace chemicals hiding in there.
I initially thought I would try the LemiShine on my hair, but now, knowing this, I'm not going to do that.

Apparently, you can buy straight citric acid in the canning section (by the good people at Ball, the canning company) at your local WalMart! (I didn't know this, figured I'd have to order online and wait for it)

Is anyone out there using citric acid? And how are you using it?

[Scarlet_Heart]

I used it as a leave in because I heard it could get permanent hair color out (tried it on my henna). It didn't do much on that front, but it made my hair absolutely stink for weeks. I suppose if you're just doing a rinse, it wouldn't be so bad.

I bought vitamin c tablets and ground them into a past with head and shoulders shampoo.

[schnibbles]

Hmm .. I hadn't thought about the smell factor. Something to consider, if the straight citric acid will leave an odor behind. :uhh:

[Vivalagina]

I use it as a final rinse. About 1/8 tsp to a gallon on tap water. Less is more, I don't notice any smell.

[schnibbles]

I use it as a final rinse. About 1/8 tsp to a gallon on tap water. Less is more, I don't notice any smell.

:thumbsup: thanks!

[Scarlet_Heart]

I think because I left it on so long, it lifted the cuticle a lot and maybe that cause the odor?? I don't know. You'll probably be fine if you just use it as a rinse. I mean, I mixed it with shampoo, really scrubbed it in, and then left it on for a few hours.

[Beborani]

Citric acid is white odorless crystal. If made fresh it should not smell at all. A pinch in a quart should be sufficient--you can taste it to see if it is slightly sour. It is an excellent chelating agent. But adding to to shampoo and conditioner may not be the best idea--a simple rinse is sufficient and it can even be left in if you wish.

[schnibbles]

I think because I left it on so long, it lifted the cuticle a lot and maybe that cause the odor?? I don't know. You'll probably be fine if you just use it as a rinse. I mean, I mixed it with shampoo, really scrubbed it in, and then left it on for a few hours.

Oooh, ok. Right, to try to lift henna. Makes sense. I think I'll try a rinse first to see how that goes.

[schnibbles]

Citric acid is white odorless crystal. If made fresh it should not smell at all. A pinch in a quart should be sufficient--you can taste it to see if it is slightly sour. It is an excellent chelating agent. But adding to to shampoo and conditioner may not be the best idea--a simple rinse is sufficient and it can even be left in if you wish.

Very helpful, thanks Beborani. I was worried if I didn't rinse it out sufficiently, would my hair fall out or something? I always try to rinse really well, but my hair is thick and sometimes it gets tedious.
Chelating is something that I constantly struggle with.

[Gabriel]

We have really hard water where I live. The water is hard and really just terrible, but hard too. It's gross. I use a citric acid rinse every so often. Maybe every two or three full washes. The citric acid I use is the Ball brand. It doesn't have a scent to me. Alternately, I sometimes use a lemon or lime rinse made with a few squeezes from "Volcano Lemon Burst" (or lime). The Lemon Burst ingredients are: water, organic lemon juice, citric acid, organic lemon oil. The total amount of either citric acid along or lemon/lime I use is usually less than half of 1/8th a tsp for the amount of water I use. I don't rinse the water out. I tried a full 1/8 tsp and that was too strong for me.

I mix either with 12fl oz (355ml) of bottled water.

Ion makes a hard water shampoo (http://www.sallybeauty.com/hard-water-shampoo/ION12,default,pd.html) and conditioner (http://www.sallybeauty.com/hard-water-conditioner/SBS-302052,default,pd.html) I really like.

[Beborani]

There is absolutely no reason for your hair to fall out. Chelating simply means it binds to metal ions--iron, calcium etc in the water, so it maybe better to rinse it out the first time to let them wash off. I use it as leavein sometimes but it is extra leftover that I pour on my hair.

[schnibbles]

Thanks Gabriel for your suggestions. I have been thinking of trying the Ion hard water line also, but haven't made it to Sally Beauty lately.

[schnibbles]

There is absolutely no reason for your hair to fall out. Chelating simply means it binds to metal ions--iron, calcium etc in the water, so it maybe better to rinse it out the first time to let them wash off. I use it as leavein sometimes but it is extra leftover that I pour on my hair.

That's it, I definitely need some citric acid in my life..

[Loviatar]

I use citric acid with every wash, because I have super hard water and I use shampoo bars.

I use 1 tbsp acid crystals dissolved in a litre of water. Any less and I get waxy soap residue left behind. It may seem strong but it works for me.

It does not smell at all. The rinse mix tastes a bit like lemon juice but that's all. Avoid the eyes! (Personal experience!)

[Weewah]

I maybe do an 1/8th of a tsp to a quarter gallon. Here's a good relevant blog entry about acid rinses: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2013/08/ph-of-common-homemade-rinses.html?m=1 (http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2013/08/ph-of-common-homemade-rinses.html?m=1)

[jeanniet]

I used citric acid rinses (1/4 tsp. per gallon of water) after every wash (final rinse, so it stayed in) for a good three years when I was growing my hair out. Now I don't do them as often, but still use the same dilution. The only odor I ever notice is a bit of metallic smell, which I've always assumed was due to the chelating, but it doesn't linger.

Wow, Lovi, that's a strong dilution! You must have super-hard water.

[DKSABS]

There's a member in here named Desdemona who has a link to her article on "miracle water" that she uses to rinse her hair because of a hard water situation. Her recipe is one gallon of water with a smidgen (1/32 tsp) of vitamin C crystals and 1/4 tsp of citric acid powder. I make a gallon of this at a time and then pour the miracle water mixture into a quart sized Rubbermaid container and then add 1-2 Tblsp of bragg's organic apple cider vinegar. I add this to my hair after using my shampoo bars and conditioner and rinsing those out. I leave the miracle water/ACV on my hair for a couple of minutes and then rinse that out and finish with a very cold water rinse to close the cuticle.

[Katyusha]

I'll just repost this from another thread that I wrote. I wanted to clarify and chelate so I did this because my hair felt greasy no matter why I did.

Well first I mixed two table spoons of BS in half litre water jug and poured that on my hair. Then I shampooed my head with diluted BS still on my hair. I rinsed that off. My hair felt squeaky clean and somewhat dry.
After that I mixed two tea spoons of ascorbic acid (vitamin - C) with half litre water and poured that on my hair. I went with that because I didn't have citric acid and some said it works similarly. Well after pouring this mix on my hair magic happened! My hair became incredibly soft and silky. I was amazed and shocked because they were so crunchy after BS and now after vitamin - C so soft. I could comb them without conditioner and I could never do that. I left this mix on for ten minutes and rinsed off.
After that I shampooed again and put conditioner on and left it on for twenty minutes.

[schnibbles]

Thanks everyone for your comments. Today was wash day and I did a citric acid rinse. I went with 1/4 of a tsp in a gallon of water, as a final leave-in rinse. My hair isn't dry yet, but seems very soft and happy. No smell. I'm curious to see if it will be shiny when it dries.




It does not smell at all. The rinse mix tastes a bit like lemon juice but that's all. Avoid the eyes! (Personal experience!)
Good to know! ow.


I maybe do an 1/8th of a tsp to a quarter gallon. Here's a good relevant blog entry about acid rinses: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2013/08/ph-of-common-homemade-rinses.html?m=1 (http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2013/08/ph-of-common-homemade-rinses.html?m=1)
I will definitely check out that article, thanks


I used citric acid rinses (1/4 tsp. per gallon of water) after every wash (final rinse, so it stayed in) for a good three years when I was growing my hair out. Now I don't do them as often, but still use the same dilution. The only odor I ever notice is a bit of metallic smell, which I've always assumed was due to the chelating, but it doesn't linger.
This is the dilution I went with, seemed like a good starting point. I may up it just a touch next time just to see what happens.


There's a member in here named Desdemona who has a link to her article on "miracle water" that she uses to rinse her hair because of a hard water situation. Her recipe is one gallon of water with a smidgen (1/32 tsp) of vitamin C crystals and 1/4 tsp of citric acid powder. I make a gallon of this at a time and then pour the miracle water mixture into a quart sized Rubbermaid container and then add 1-2 Tblsp of bragg's organic apple cider vinegar. I add this to my hair after using my shampoo bars and conditioner and rinsing those out. I leave the miracle water/ACV on my hair for a couple of minutes and then rinse that out and finish with a very cold water rinse to close the cuticle.
I did a search in the archives and did find a few threads mentioning this Miracle Water. Maybe when I get more experienced in this, I will add some vitamin C crystals also.. ?


I'll just repost this from another thread that I wrote. I wanted to clarify and chelate so I did this because my hair felt greasy no matter why I did.

Well first I mixed two table spoons of BS in half litre water jug and poured that on my hair. Then I shampooed my head with diluted BS still on my hair. I rinsed that off. My hair felt squeaky clean and somewhat dry.
After that I mixed two tea spoons of ascorbic acid (vitamin - C) with half litre water and poured that on my hair. I went with that because I didn't have citric acid and some said it works similarly. Well after pouring this mix on my hair magic happened! My hair became incredibly soft and silky. I was amazed and shocked because they were so crunchy after BS and now after vitamin - C so soft. I could comb them without conditioner and I could never do that. I left this mix on for ten minutes and rinsed off.
After that I shampooed again and put conditioner on and left it on for twenty minutes.
My hair is feeling softer by the minute as it dries! :bunny: yay.

[Loviatar]

Jeanniet, I know :( I always feel it's ridiculously strong but if I cut it, I get waxies. London water is 22-23 degrees Clark on the hardness scale. If you go by ppm (parts per million) we are over 275.

ETA: here is the wiki page for water hardness. In the US, 14 grains per gallon is considered extremely hard. 1.2 GPG is equivalent to 1 Clarks degree.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grains_per_gallon

[jeanniet]

Jeanniet, I know :( I always feel it's ridiculously strong but if I cut it, I get waxies. London water is 22-23 degrees Clark on the hardness scale. If you go by ppm (parts per million) we are over 275.

ETA: here is the wiki page for water hardness. In the US, 14 grains per gallon is considered extremely hard. 1.2 GPG is equivalent to 1 Clarks degree.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grains_per_gallon

Oh, definitely, I've heard London's water is impossible--your water is waaaay harder than mine! I think you're probably safe with your dilution because most of the acid is bound up with the calcium carbonate.

Schnibbles, I don't think ascorbic acid is necessary for you because it's for chlorinated water and you have well water. Anyway, I do the miracle water dilution and didn't bother with the AA because I don't have chlorinated water. I need the citric acid to chelate calcium carbonate (hardness) and iron.

[schnibbles]

^^ jeanniet, thanks for explaining that, you're right, I don't have chlorinated water.
(I need this guidance, I'm basically clueless) :D

I'm really impressed with my citric acid rinse yesterday. My hair is super soft, not as tangly as usual and seems shinier.