Help me with my hair frustration...please

[cat11]

lately I've been getting into a rut with my hair over several things. I've been having lots of weird buildup issues from trying different conditioning and washing methods and different conditioners themselves... it's making me feel like my hair is damaged because I feel like it's been ages since I had a completely normal feeling wash result. I think I need to clarify. But after I clarify I need to find the right conditioner for me...

right now I'm using Avalon organics lavender conditioner in the dark green bottle. I think I just have a hard time getting it all out of my fine hair, which is weird, because usually I barely rinse conditioner and I'm fine. the last conditioner I had work great was palmers olive oil, hut that has dinethicone in it so I wanted to find a new cone free one. problem is getting one that works... my hair is iii thickness, 2c wavy with ringlets and very fine. my ends need some love. I'm thinking of trying creme of nature conditioner, has anyone tried that or has suggestions for a tried and true conditioner?

another issue I'm worrying about is damage from almost constant cinnabunning in the same spot. my bangs are till growing out , currently between chin and shoulder,and won't stay in a twist bun if I put it any lower than a very high bun. I can get a lazy wrap to work sometimes with a long bobby bin keeping the ends in but it starts just like a cinnabun anyway. I have thick hair so it's hard... any suggestions? I'm noticing the damage on my growing out bangs that haven't been cut in ages but nowhere else.

I'm also have slight frizz right above where my dyed hair starts, I'm thinking it may be new growth though coming in after I stopped dying and took better care of my hair?

ack. I'd appreciate advice on any of these topics. to add to the frustration I had to rip baby nape hairs out of a necklace because I accidentally fell asleep with hair down for an hourr.

thanks for reading this

[meteor]

lately I've been getting into a rut with my hair over several things. I've been having lots of weird buildup issues from trying different conditioning and washing methods and different conditioners themselves... it's making me feel like my hair is damaged because I feel like it's been ages since I had a completely normal feeling wash result. I think I need to clarify. But after I clarify I need to find the right conditioner for me...
I'd go back to old products that worked well in the past, at least temporarily. Too much experimentation all at once creates build up and doesn't allow you to judge the new routines properly.


another issue I'm worrying about is damage from almost constant cinnabunning in the same spot. my bangs are till growing out , currently between chin and shoulder,and won't stay in a twist bun if I put it any lower than a very high bun. I can get a lazy wrap to work sometimes with a long bobby bin keeping the ends in but it starts just like a cinnabun anyway. I have thick hair so it's hard... any suggestions? I'm noticing the damage on my growing out bangs that haven't been cut in ages but nowhere else.
Braided bun! Either sectioned in 2 braids or just 1 braid. You don't need elastics to hold the braid, just use a hair-stick/fork or whatever else works for you.
Here's an awesome video by Torrin about how to bun thick/short hair (hint: it's all about sectioning): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZvXrEOfJ4w
She presents sectioned cinnabun, braided bun and nautilus.


I'm also have slight frizz right above where my dyed hair starts, I'm thinking it may be new growth though coming in after I stopped dying and took better care of my hair?
It could be new growth, but it could also be change of textures on the demarcation line - it's totally normal and it's a part of growing out dye/bleach/relaxer/perm/other chemical treatments.

[schnibbles]

I'd agree with meteor on going back to the conditioner you liked before. I know dimethicone gets a bad wrap, but I don't think it's necessarily bad if it works for you. "Natural" type conditioners aren't really ever heavy enough for me, usually. I love Nature's Gate shampoo, for example, but the conditioner does nothing for me...so I can't help you there. Right now I'm using L'oreal Professional in the black bottles, contains water-soluable cones. I really like it.

I'm growing bangs out also. :grouphug: Mine are at about the middle of my neck. Can you try pinning them back separately, maybe making a little pouf and then braiding the rest? I like doing this lately for a change. Gives my scalp a break. As exciting as it was when they were finally able to bun with the rest of my hair, the bun pretty much needs to be in that same spot for it to work, so I know what you're saying about that...

As for the slight frizz issue, maybe if you went back to your old coney favorite conditioner, it would smooth that temporarily. (?) It's just new growth, I wouldn't worry too much about it. :o

[ErinLeigh]

I haven't tried the Creme of nature conditioner but their shampoo is great in my opinion. It is super gentle and feels exactly like a cowash. I use it in my cowash rotation actually.

I too worry about twist breakage. My hair is CBL so I can only get it up I to a peacock twist. I feel twisting hair daily isn't good for me and I am always trying to adjust where I put the clip and how loose I twist but it still feels like the constant twisting can't be good.
Regarding tried and true conditioners. Are you looking for cowash or for the ends? There are several excellent ones listed in the conventional threads. I have gotten great ideas over there for products I wouldn't have know about. For me I found the best conditioner is simply rotating several conditioners. This way I am getting a little bit of everything and not too overload or buildup from same same all the time. Our hair is all different but that is what works for me. The best to do is assess what you are looking to get out of a product. Frizz reduction, protein, moisture retention etc and then search for conditioners that have ingredients to suit your needs. There are some links I can add when I get to laptop that list what the ingredients of conditioners do for hair. It may possibly help you select perhaps?

I wish I had ideas but I don't. I am still learning myself. I just wanted to offer friendly support.

[Weewah]

I get bad halo frizz at the top of my head, and what seems to have fixed the problem for me is drying with a t-shirt instead of my microfiber hair towel. It soaks up way less water so the hair still stays smoothed out with water while it's drying. So maybe give that a try.

As far as conditioner recommendations, my favorite conditioner so far is Darcys Botanicals Pumpkin Seed conditioner. It smells great like pumpkin pie and it's very moisturizing. http://www.curlmart.com/product/darcys-botanicals-pumpkin-seed-moisturizing-conditioner/

I also swear by my Kinky Curly Knot Today as a leave in or to add to my conditioner when I need extra slip.

[cat11]

Braided bun! Either sectioned in 2 braids or just 1 braid. You don't need elastics to hold the braid, just use a hair-stick/fork or whatever else works for you.
Here's an awesome video by Torrin about how to bun thick/short hair (hint: it's all about sectioning): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZvXrEOfJ4w
She presents sectioned cinnabun, braided bun and nautilus.

Thank you so much!! This is definately the type of thing I'm looking for and I'll try it out tomorrow. I've been curious about sectioned buns but hadn't found an adequate tutorial yet... bingo.



I'd agree with meteor on going back to the conditioner you liked before. I know dimethicone gets a bad wrap, but I don't think it's necessarily bad if it works for you. "Natural" type conditioners aren't really ever heavy enough for me, usually. I love Nature's Gate shampoo, for example, but the conditioner does nothing for me...so I can't help you there. Right now I'm using L'oreal Professional in the black bottles, contains water-soluable cones. I really like it.

I'm growing bangs out also. Mine are at about the middle of my neck. Can you try pinning them back separately, maybe making a little pouf and then braiding the rest? I like doing this lately for a change. Gives my scalp a break. As exciting as it was when they were finally able to bun with the rest of my hair, the bun pretty much needs to be in that same spot for it to work, so I know what you're saying about that...


Thank you for all your advice! Maybe I will go back to the Palmers Olive Oil (the old one I used) eventually because it did work so well. Maybe I need to realize I'm one of those rare people cones are good for. It was like a hair miracle when I first started using the shampoo/conditioner set. I think maybe I will buy myself another bottle of the conditioner but also try a natural too, and if the natural fails I'll still have the old palmers too. It's not expensive it's about $4 at walmart. I have funky hair, all my good hair products have come from the ethnic section even though I'm so white I sunburn in the winter sometimes. It's because of the fine, dry texture of my hair... I actually feel jipped that they only market most of the natural, heavy duty good conditioners and co-wash products in the ethnic section. There are things that could be good for almost anyone's hair, probably.

As for the bangs, I used to to the pouf thing all the time! They are too long though. I just looked in the mirror and if I stretch them down they go to my collarbone at the longest hairs. Still short enough to pop out of a twisty bun though. I think I could modify that Idea to just pin them back into the bun, sort of. I like that idea...


Regarding tried and true conditioners. Are you looking for cowash or for the ends? There are several excellent ones listed in the conventional threads. I have gotten great ideas over there for products I wouldn't have know about. For me I found the best conditioner is simply rotating several conditioners. This way I am getting a little bit of everything and not too overload or buildup from same same all the time. Our hair is all different but that is what works for me. The best to do is assess what you are looking to get out of a product. Frizz reduction, protein, moisture retention etc and then search for conditioners that have ingredients to suit your needs. There are some links I can add when I get to laptop that list what the ingredients of conditioners do for hair. It may possibly help you select perhaps?

Thank you! I would actually appreciate that, if you could try to help. I want a conditioner to use on the length (ears down) as a regular second step conditioner, and I am looking for a conditioner that gives lots of moisture but doesn't leave build-up. I am frizz prone but oiling takes care of that for me and I wear it up anyway, plus getting moisture kills the frizz so I'm not really focused on that. Really I need moisture without buildup. I think maybe I might be confusing build up from the natural conditioner with it not working though, after reading shnibbles post? I'm not sure, but it's so much duller than it was before, and dry at the ends. Before I started messing around I didnt even feel like I had ends. But I changed things for reasons...such as cones are bad. I like your rotation idea, I actually remember you mentioning on a different thread and thinking, "I think I should do that." Maybe rotating the Palmers with dimethicone with whatever conditioner we come up with in this thread.



As far as conditioner recommendations, my favorite conditioner so far is Darcys Botanicals Pumpkin Seed conditioner. It smells great like pumpkin pie and it's very moisturizing. http://www.curlmart.com/product/darc...g-conditioner/

I like this idea and I'll keep it in mind since we seem to have somewhat similar hair. Thanks weewah :)

Thanks for all the kind support everyone

[ErinLeigh]

Briogeo Don't Despair, Repair! Deep Conditioning Mask is my new obsession. Terax crema is super moisturizing (not vegan approved, tallow) - both are cone free. Darcy Botanicals is an awesome line I am learning.

One of my favorite things to do is go to Sallys and buy their $1 sample conditioner packets. It lets you try a variety of conditioners and see what works and what doesn't. ION the one with the red/white (cone free) is great and comes in the sample pack size. Alba Botanicals Leave In conditioner (cone free) is working nice for smoothing on me. Makes my ends soft and stops the bad tangles/dry ends I was getting.

Oh, if you like Palmers line they do have a cone free cleansing conditioner you can try.
Palmer's Olive Oil Formula Co-Wash Cleansing Conditioner. Maybe it will have the same great effect as the one you use? I ill post ingredients so you can check if they have similarities or not.
Ingredients:
Water, Cetyl alcohol, Glycerin, Isopropyl Palmitate, Polyquaternuym-7, Bethentrimonium Chloride, Olive fruit oil, Laureth-4, Hydrolyzed Keratin, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Chamomilla Recutita Flower/ Leaf extract, Equisetum Arvense extract, Sage leaf extract, Rosemary leaf extract, Hyssopus extract, Urtica dioica extract, Tocopheryl Acetate, Mentha peppermint oil, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Panthenol, Fragrance Phenoxyethanol, Myristyl Alcohol, stearly alcohol, Isopropyl Alcohol, Sodium Chloride, Methylisothiazolinone, Propylene Glycol, Blue 1, Yellow 5, Red 4, Caprylyl Glycol, Benzyl Salicylate, Linalool.

If you like cones but are stressed about them what about trying water soluble cones? Ones that wash out with a cowash? Best of both worlds. I use Paul Mitchell as that is all I can find but others may have ideas on those. Loreal Naturals Mega moisture is nice and although the cones in it aren't water soluble they are the kind that resist buildup.

I am at laptop now..
Here is a link of ingredients and what they are used for. It may help you pick products that will help what you are looking to work on.
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/search?q=conditioner+ingredients

[Charybdis]

Maybe I need to realize I'm one of those rare people cones are good for.

Not that rare! There are a number of folks on these boards who love their cones.

I find my hair is happiest with a little bit of coney goodness to cut down on hair-on-hair friction. I cut way back on cones when I was living in an area with extremely hard water that caused coney conditioners to build up a lot more; now that I'm back in soft water country, I'm using cones about every 3rd wash. The people who are happiest with cones usually seem to shampoo at least once a week (not necessarily with SLS/SLES products, however), and that describes me -- I have mild seborrheic dermatitis, so I need shampoo for my scalp. I also like to use a mild, SLS-free shampoo on my length; I like leave-ins with a lot of oils/butters to weigh my frizz down, and I feel like a mild shampoo keeps the build-up away.

[Selkie-]

I went through this too recently - trying a lot of different products, trying to go cone-free totally and also different wash methods. My hair seemed to feel drier and drier no matter how much conditioner I used.

What worked for me was simplifying things - less oiling in between washes and using a hair mask with amodimethicone in it - L'Oreal Evercreme Masque. My hair LOVES this stuff and is now feeling silky and moisturised all the time so I have figured out that I am one of those who's hair loves cones (or at least amodimethicone).

Hope you figure things out soon. :)

[spidermom]

Avalon lavender conditioner is among the worst products I ever used.

[cat11]

Sorry I left this thread for so long... I've been pretty busy!

I got the build up taken care of. I followed advice and I got Palmers again, co-wash Erin-Leigh mentioned (thanks so much thats perfect for me.) Before that though, I washed it out with gentle shampoo, but a lot over the whole length. That wasn't enough. So I washed it twice with sls shampoo from my mothers shower. This time it finally got cleaned up and I'm waiting for it to be time to wash it again and get it more back to normal... it's clean and soft now, but the ends feel so dry and overall it's very poofy and big. It was giving me a really hard time trying to make it stay bunned.

Thanks for all the help :blossom:

[ErinLeigh]

I am so glad you checked in! Also glad you found the Palmers. That one is actually on my list to try next as I love the marketed cleansing conditioners for washing. I am a chronic rotater and must have that one in the mix for more variety :)
I have found cowashing is great, I just need to clarify monthly and deep condition to start fresh..and seal my ends with a good leave in. After a while doing those things seemed to balance things out.
A good leave in helps. My obsession lately has been the Alba Botanica leave in. I have never felt hair so soft before. My ends were dry and tangly and now they feel normal. Went to the beach today and didn't have any fly aways or frizz and was shocked. Usually the beach wreacks havoc on my hair. It just re-enforced to me how the right products can fix almost anything that ails my hair.

[cat11]

I am so glad you checked in! Also glad you found the Palmers. That one is actually on my list to try next as I love the marketed cleansing conditioners for washing. I am a chronic rotater and must have that one in the mix for more variety :)
I have found cowashing is great, I just need to clarify monthly and deep condition to start fresh..and seal my ends with a good leave in. After a while doing those things seemed to balance things out.
A good leave in helps. My obsession lately has been the Alba Botanica leave in. I have never felt hair so soft before. My ends were dry and tangly and now they feel normal. Went to the beach today and didn't have any fly aways or frizz and was shocked. Usually the beach wreacks havoc on my hair. It just re-enforced to me how the right products can fix almost anything that ails my hair.

wow- usually my hair is a mess at the beach too. I actually found the Palmers online at a website called feelunique- the store had 25% off their whole line. I can't find the co-wash and coconut conditioner anywhere near where I live.

I think the whole issue was just that conditioner that worked so badly on me and left buildup. It might have been that combined with recently trying co-wash with vo5 conditioner... I'm going to not mess with my routine for a while now. I need to do the same thing with it for awhile and be patient while I wait for it to grow and improve as the ends that had been dyed and bleached before grow out. And finally my layers. Lateley Ive learned I need to be patient and leave it alone more...

[ErinLeigh]

sounds like a great plan! I was actually surprised to find I am getting some product loyalty and not straying as much. I am keeping between 4 cleansing conditioners, the same pre wash oilings and always the same leave in routine. That is huge for me as prior I did something crazy different every day. It was a relief finding some kind of routine finally. I still will try a few more cleansing conditioners out of curiosity since my hair seems to agree with most of them, but since the rest of routine is stable I find it is good as now I know what to expect my hair to look like each day. And actually I am so in love with the ones I do have I may keep it simple and just keep those if i can stop online shopping.

When I was changing everything..shampooing on day, cowashing with random conditioners the next, changing leave ins daily etc ,I never knew what to expect day to day. It was stressful and hard to pinpoint what worked and what didn't. I feel a lot more relaxed now and have way less buildup and bad hair days.

Did you feel a little waxy with VO5? It makes my hair feel a little waxy or heavy if I don't cut it with honey. I have pulled back form using it. I loved the price, but nothing else about it helped me.

[cat11]

sounds like a great plan! I was actually surprised to find I am getting some product loyalty and not straying as much. I am keeping between 4 cleansing conditioners, the same pre wash oilings and always the same leave in routine. That is huge for me as prior I did something crazy different every day. It was a relief finding some kind of routine finally. I still will try a few more cleansing conditioners out of curiosity since my hair seems to agree with most of them, but since the rest of routine is stable I find it is good as now I know what to expect my hair to look like each day. And actually I am so in love with the ones I do have I may keep it simple and just keep those if i can stop online shopping.

When I was changing everything..shampooing on day, cowashing with random conditioners the next, changing leave ins daily etc ,I never knew what to expect day to day. It was stressful and hard to pinpoint what worked and what didn't. I feel a lot more relaxed now and have way less buildup and bad hair days.

Did you feel a little waxy with VO5? It makes my hair feel a little waxy or heavy if I don't cut it with honey. I have pulled back form using it. I loved the price, but nothing else about it helped me.

I totally agree on finding something that works being relieving. My leave ins and oils are all reliable at this point, which is great. I like the idea of having certain products I know just work and leaving it alone from there, in general with my hair sticking to one thing and being consitent helps. Whether its wash method, wearing it up, or whatever.

And the v05 did make me waxy! It coated my hair rather than make all the dirt slide off like it was supposed to.