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Andeee
April 30th, 2014, 07:53 AM
Hi everyone and thanks in advance for any replies!

Today I got my hair colored. I usually go about every 8 weeks, only do the roots now, but there is damage at the lower 6 or so inches from when I used to color all of it.

My hairstylist knows I don't want to cut or even trim at all right now. I do coconut oil treatments (pre-shampoo) on occasion and that does help with my dry ends. They are not quite velcro-y so the damage isn't too bad.

My stylist recommended I get a deep conditioning treatment. I asked her what it was (I assumed some kind of hot oil treatment). She said she washes the hair with a special shampoo which opens up the cuticle and then the treatment is put on. The open cuticle allows the treatment to penetrate. I don't know if heat is involved, I didn't want to ask loads of questions because I didn't want her to think I was afraid she might do something damaging when she was trying to do something just the opposite. I know, I shouldn't have been shy to ask for more details.

Anyway, it's the shampoo that opens the cuticle that sounds scary to me. Has anyone gotten this kind of a treatment before and do you recommend it?

furnival
April 30th, 2014, 08:01 AM
This might be of interest:
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2013/03/junk-science-opening-hairs-cuticle-for.html

There are plenty of really effective deep conditioning treatments you can do at home- have you tried an SMT?

Andeee
April 30th, 2014, 08:05 AM
I have done a few SMTs, they do really work well, although sometimes they leave a residue on both hair and scalp which is hard to get out even after loads and loads of rinsing. I could just do one on the bottom half of my hair where it really needs it most.

I will check out that link, thanks furnival.

Edited to add: I have read the link and have bookmarked it for further study. Just as I suspected, forcing the cuticle open is bad!

I will just continue with my pre-shampoo coconut oilings (must do them more often!) and a bottom half SMT every now and then.

RitaCeleste
April 30th, 2014, 08:32 AM
I colored the mess out of my hair. Once I damaged it and needed to fortify it a bit. I used Aphogee Keratin 2 Minute Reconstuctor. Its got protein in it so just go easy but it did wonders for it. I did it about twice a month for awhile then my hair decided it didn't like the protein. I lightly oil my hair if its dry. I like macadamia nut oil, my daughter has fine hair and she likes apricot kernal oil as it is a lighter oil she can use without getting greasy. Sunflower oil is kinda light too. I started to use those wash out colors on it and henna and its in better shape and I can still change it up a little. I did just trim 3 inches off the bottom but mny hair was past my waist so it didn't hurt so bad.

sarahthegemini
April 30th, 2014, 12:20 PM
I'm not sure why you're concerned about shampoo opening the cuticle? Do you normally use shampoo?

Andeee
April 30th, 2014, 12:45 PM
I'm not sure why you're concerned about shampoo opening the cuticle? Do you normally use shampoo?
Oh, yes I use both normal shampoo (diluted) and sometimes a SLS-free shampoo. This was a special shampoo that forced the cuticle to open (I'm assuming much more than what normally washing it would do) so that the treatment could penetrate.

sarahthegemini
April 30th, 2014, 12:47 PM
Oh, yes I use both normal shampoo (diluted) and sometimes a SLS-free shampoo. This was a special shampoo that forced the cuticle to open (I'm assuming much more than what normally washing it would do) so that the treatment could penetrate.

Tbh my cynical side is telling me that the stylist is ********ting you. An ordinary shampoo opens up the cuticles plenty.

spidermom
April 30th, 2014, 12:59 PM
Don't worry so much. Water opens the cuticle, too. Salon deep conditioning treatments using heat make my hair shine like glass; I love it!

meteor
April 30th, 2014, 03:23 PM
This might be of interest:
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2013/03/junk-science-opening-hairs-cuticle-for.html

There are plenty of really effective deep conditioning treatments you can do at home- have you tried an SMT?
I was going to refer you to the same blog article.

I think the whole approach of "opening the cuticle" that the product promotes is wrong.
Hair cuticles are not like skin pores to be cleansed or layers to be exfoliated. You don't want to "open the cuticle" in order to "deep treat" it; you want to keep it intact... or patch-repair missing/chipped/damaged cuticles where the damage is done.

I think it's best to keep cuticles lying as flat as you can get away with while washing, drying, styling and otherwise handling your hair. Cuticles are lifted/opened under extremely alkaline, damaging conditions: e.g. dyeing, bleaching, relaxing, soaking in concentrated baking soda solution. This leads to more hair porosity... which, ironically, you'll later need to patch-repair with conditioning ingredients (especially hydrolyzed proteins) if you want to grow your hair long and manageable.
Why cause damage in the first place so you'll have to routinely patch-repair later?

Here's a great read on understanding and managing porosity and elasticity: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/03/managing-elasticity-and-porosity-in-hair.html

ErinLeigh
April 30th, 2014, 05:20 PM
To add to Natural Haven links...here was the 2nd part...this one explains why most ingredients do not need to penetrate to help hair
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2013/03/does-conditioner-or-oil-really-need-to.html

If you take this sentence..."Healthy hair has closed hair cuticles. Factors that change the cuticle’s surface can include your shampoo. Some strong shampoos not only strip the hair of its natural oils but also injure the cuticle by tearing up the overlapping scales. " then it seems counter productive to damage hair just to correct it.

I would think mild heat such as warm rinsing are just enough to get the cuticle to react and take in what needs penetrated...without tearing it open enough to cause serious hair. I would appreciate feedback on if that is true if anyone can confirm or deny.

This topic is so interesting to me as I always believed in the past about stripping and adding. It explains a lot of my past issues.

Allie_snowflake
April 30th, 2014, 05:52 PM
I had a stylist tell me years ago to rinse shampoo with as close to hot water as you can stand then apply conditioner wait a minute or two then rinse with cold water to close the cuticles over the conditioner. I wasn't so sure trapping those chemicals inside was such a good idea.

Weewah
April 30th, 2014, 07:35 PM
Seems like she's just gonna use a clarifying shampoo but is describing it to you all fancy. I wouldn't be worried about it, I always clarify before doing a deep conditioning treatment to make sure it works as well as possible.

ErinLeigh
April 30th, 2014, 08:05 PM
Seems like she's just gonna use a clarifying shampoo but is describing it to you all fancy. I wouldn't be worried about it, I always clarify before doing a deep conditioning treatment to make sure it works as well as possible.

I wondered that too...if it was just a clarifying/chelating shampoo.
I do use those before a "deep treatment." I wonder if that helps or hurts now after reading this thread and clicking links.
I need to clarify fairly often, my fine hair gets product buildup...do these tear open cuticle or is it just the same minor lifting you get from washing or sitting under a heat cap?
This whole thing has me wondering best way to apply a deep treatment and I am on a serious fence on this one..

meteor
April 30th, 2014, 09:25 PM
I wondered that too...if it was just a clarifying/chelating shampoo.
I do use those before a "deep treatment." I wonder if that helps or hurts now after reading this thread and clicking links.
I need to clarify fairly often, my fine hair gets product buildup...do these tear open cuticle or is it just the same minor lifting you get from washing or sitting under a heat cap?
This whole thing has me wondering best way to apply a deep treatment and I am on a serious fence on this one..

What you are doing sounds fine to me. If you are using a well-formulated clarifying shampoo from time to time and then deep-treat, it's like a way to "reset" your hair by removing old buildup and condition it well. As long as you are not marinating hair in some concentrated baking soda or other alkaline mix to lift the cuticle, mild clarifying is fine. And heat cap helps deep treatment penetrate hair even better, but even a shower cap + towel is good enough.

Generally, I don't like the whole "build-up & clarify" cycle for virgin hair, but hair that was chemically treated several times usually requires it due to more intense conditioning needs.

Weewah
May 1st, 2014, 12:37 AM
I wondered that too...if it was just a clarifying/chelating shampoo.
I do use those before a "deep treatment." I wonder if that helps or hurts now after reading this thread and clicking links.
I need to clarify fairly often, my fine hair gets product buildup...do these tear open cuticle or is it just the same minor lifting you get from washing or sitting under a heat cap?
This whole thing has me wondering best way to apply a deep treatment and I am on a serious fence on this one..

Well since we use styling products I think it's better to clarify before deep conditioning, to make sure there's no barrier blocking the treatment. I don't think clarifying lifts the cuticle too harshly compared to chemical processes. There are less harsh clarifying poos too. I found the Suave daily clarifying shampoo to be really harsh feeling and I dislike it, but my Pure & Basic Citrus clarifying shampoo clarifies very effectively for me and feels much gentler and I enjoy using it.

Andeee
May 1st, 2014, 01:23 AM
Thanks for all of the replies! I am still on the fence about this one.....

ErinLeigh
May 1st, 2014, 12:17 PM
Well since we use styling products I think it's better to clarify before deep conditioning, to make sure there's no barrier blocking the treatment. I don't think clarifying lifts the cuticle too harshly compared to chemical processes. There are less harsh clarifying poos too. I found the Suave daily clarifying shampoo to be really harsh feeling and I dislike it, but my Pure & Basic Citrus clarifying shampoo clarifies very effectively for me and feels much gentler and I enjoy using it.

Thanks Weewah!!! I think you are right. My deep conditioners do work so well after a good clarify/chelate. I got a little skeered after reading. Feeling better after a common sense slap.

cheetahfast
May 1st, 2014, 12:47 PM
I see you are in England. I love Scott Cornwall's decolour conclude balm (it comes in the color removing kit, but is also sold separately). I used it yesterday and my hair is so glossy and nice. It think it is cone free and it has protein in it. I would clarify well and then use it as a deep treatment if I were you. I wish I had bought extra since I live in the US and the international shipping was kinda high.

My hair is naturally very dry and never glossy even when I use cones, so it's rare for me to have glossy hair.

Weewah
May 1st, 2014, 01:07 PM
Thanks Weewah!!! I think you are right. My deep conditioners do work so well after a good clarify/chelate. I got a little skeered after reading. Feeling better after a common sense slap.

No prob! I know it's frustrating getting lost in all this hair information. The best answers always seem to be simple common sense, basically just do what your hair responds well to. Just recently I was frustrated and posting ranblings on other hair forums about detangling after gel styling and getting unhelpful misguided responses.... and then it just clicked like, duh! The answer is simply to stop using gel or stop trying to finger detangle when I have gel in. I was searching for other people's experiences and magic insight when the answer was in my head all along.


Thanks for all of the replies! I am still on the fence about this one.....

Personally I'd skip it because I'm a cheapo and wouldn't wanna pay someone to do something I can do decently on my own anyways. But it might be a nice treat, I'd worry more about her trying to detangle your hair roughly before applying the treatment than I would be about the shampoo blasting your hair cuticle open. The cuticle should be laying flat and smooth again after the treatment has been applied and you leave the salon.

heidi w.
May 1st, 2014, 02:18 PM
Don't be shy. Call her up again and ask directly: Is there heat involved? I don't understand exactly.

Just call her up and ask. That's the easiest way to get your question answered.


WeeWah: a clarify shampoo is not a chelate shampoo. Clarifying works on the top of the hair, individually speaking. Chelating penetrates and works on the cuticle which is inside the hair. Do not call it clarify/chelate. They are entirely different things, and labeling it this way causes confusion and misunderstanding.
heidi w.

Weewah
May 1st, 2014, 02:22 PM
Don't be shy. Call her up again and ask directly: Is there heat involved? I don't understand exactly.

Just call her up and ask. That's the easiest way to get your question answered.


WeeWah: a clarify shampoo is not a chelate shampoo. Clarifying works on the top of the hair, individually speaking. Chelating penetrates and works on the cuticle which is inside the hair. Do not call it clarify/chelate. They are entirely different things, and labeling it this way causes confusion and misunderstanding.
heidi w.

I didn't mention anything about chelating. :confused:

Andeee
May 1st, 2014, 02:29 PM
Don't be shy. Call her up again and ask directly: Is there heat involved? I don't understand exactly.

Just call her up and ask. That's the easiest way to get your question answered.


You're right, I will prob ask for more details when I see her next (I can pop is as her salon is right up the street from my house). To be honest it was the shampoo 'forcing the cuticle open' which sounded even scarier than heat, but it sounds as though it's just a clarifying shampoo and nothing super scary after all. I can ask her about that as well.


I'd worry more about her trying to detangle your hair roughly before applying the treatment than I would be about the shampoo blasting your hair cuticle open. The cuticle should be laying flat and smooth again after the treatment has been applied and you leave the salon.
Ah, yes you're right about this! I have already banned her and her assistant from combing out my tangles full-stop due to pulling and snapping (ouch!!).

I think I'll skip it, and possible try cheetahfest's suggestion or simply continue with my own routine and oilings a bit more regularly.

Thanks again everyone.

LongHairLesbian
May 1st, 2014, 04:17 PM
I'm of the same mind as the person who said they are a cheapo and would rather deep condition their own hair. :P I've had the best results from coconut oil, way better results than anything bought from a store or in a salon. There's nothing wrong with a salon deep treatment as a way to pamper and treat yourself (I'm sure you deserve it!) I just don't think it would produce better results than the ones you get from at home treatments.