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View Full Version : So... At what point do you think that a braid is "thick"?



FallingDarkness
April 29th, 2014, 05:17 PM
Just out of curiosity. I know that my hair is thick, and in English braids it looks thick, but when I French braid it (like today) it just looks average thickness. But that's just me. I'm wondering if other people have different views of what thick braids look like? And what those views are, of course. IDK. I might not be making sense. Ohhhh well. *shrug*

jasper
April 29th, 2014, 05:29 PM
A single English braid strikes me as thick when it looks as wide as my wrist. I see braids like that, but mine is thin with taper. I have seen tutorial videos where someone will tug a braid at the sides to make it look thicker, or at least wider.

Yozhik
April 29th, 2014, 07:34 PM
Maybe you could try a Dutch braid? That way the braid is on the "outside" and thus should probably resemble the thickness of your English braid more (although obviously it'll be thinner since you're adding hair at different points to it).

Personally, I consider thick braids to be ones starting at about 1.5-2" across.

hypersensitive
April 29th, 2014, 08:25 PM
It depends on what the person is used to seeing. I wore twin braids and a coworker remarked that if she were to braid all her hair, it would just be the thickness of one of mine.

woodswanderer
April 29th, 2014, 08:47 PM
To me, a thick braid would be +1.5 inches wide as Yozhik said, but I also would expect only minimal to medium taper. It doesn't really make sense, because clearly a person with layers could have a very thick braid that tapered a lot.....but when the braid is still relatively thick close to the end it catches my attention.

eadwine
April 30th, 2014, 07:48 AM
Thick: Torrinpaige.
Grass greener hahaha. Mine feels thin, ah well :)

Imalath
April 30th, 2014, 09:33 AM
I kind of mentally label a braid as thick when it is probably 2-3 inches wide...especially when there's no taper! I know that braid tapering and circumference has a lot to do with texture and layers though, so sometimes it's fun to imagine what it looks like when it's not braided!

MINAKO
April 30th, 2014, 09:49 AM
I'm kind of corrupted by all the the hair i've seen on the web and sometimes in person that seems to be far thicker than mine, so i percive my own as medium thickness, although i have like 12cm/4.8inches circumfence. Still, if we are talking about thick, i feel like i'm not quiet there yet compared to anything of this kind. I guess i would like it to be heavy looking as well, not just voluminous.
Found this on flickr:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7169/6493192183_a9a361ab6d_z.jpg

chen bao jun
April 30th, 2014, 09:58 AM
French or German braids will just look thinner because you take up hair all along, as someone pointed out above. I find that fishtail braids also always look thinner. If people know anything about hair, they won't think you have thin hair because you are wearing these types of braids. But if you prefer that your hair look like its real thickness, wear english braids.
You can also play around with making some of those tiny little braids for decoration around the sides to create interest to vary, as well as doing different types of braids.
Nobody is ever happy though, really. I have very thick hair and it also has 'pouf' because its curly which makes my braids look huge (the curliness ensures that there is lots of air in the braids even if I braid tightly, if you know what I mean). If I make three french braids, each one looks like its easily more than 2 inches wide and many times when I have done this, people have been shocked when I turn around to realize there is a whole other braid (the third braid) behind, because the two in front are each so fat. However. I have got so much taper that each of those two inch braids rapidly becomes a little rat tail at the bottom. The thickness has gone down the length somewhat since joining LHC (since I no longer rip my hair off at the ends, which I literally used to do, it was SO tangled and rough all the time). But in spite of natural thickness my braids still look--ridiculous. I won't wear braids right now in public because of this, I wear buns where the taper doesn't show and works to my advantage (because with such thick hair, i couldn't make a bun at my length without the taper). I feel jealous of people with much thinner hair whose braids look decent all the way down, and who can thus wear braids without looking absurd.

chen bao jun
April 30th, 2014, 10:05 AM
Minako, something is funny about that photograph from flickr. Its perfectly possible to have a braid as thick as that, I've seen them. However, people with braids that fat usually can't get their hair that smooth and close to their head, above the ponytail elastic. Maybe its possible, but I've never seen this--the girl's braid just does not match the way the way the hair on her head before the braid looks. Also, though some people have little taper or no taper, hers actually seems to get thicker towards the bottom, which is unlikely to say the least and also somewhere around her waist the style of the braiding completely changes, which is possibly from having to bring the braid around and braid from a different position, but the waist is an odd place to do this. I just really think that that particular photo has the braid enhanced in some way. I may be wrong, but it strikes me that way, after spending a lifetime around people with super thick hair, as thick as that or thicker (my grandmother was thicker than that), that braid just looks wrong.

tetisheri72
April 30th, 2014, 10:17 AM
Minako, something is funny about that photograph from flickr. Its perfectly possible to have a braid as thick as that, I've seen them. However, people with braids that fat usually can't get their hair that smooth and close to their head, above the ponytail elastic. Maybe its possible, but I've never seen this--the girl's braid just does not match the way the way the hair on her head before the braid looks. Also, though some people have little taper or no taper, hers actually seems to get thicker towards the bottom, which is unlikely to say the least and also somewhere around her waist the style of the braiding completely changes, which is possibly from having to bring the braid around and braid from a different position, but the waist is an odd place to do this. I just really think that that particular photo has the braid enhanced in some way. I may be wrong, but it strikes me that way, after spending a lifetime around people with super thick hair, as thick as that or thicker (my grandmother was thicker than that), that braid just looks wrong.

It's totally Photoshopped. And badly.

eva888
April 30th, 2014, 10:23 AM
It's totally Photoshopped. And badly.

Nicely said. That photo is totally fake.

MINAKO
April 30th, 2014, 10:29 AM
chen bao jun, i have no background information about the image i posted, other than it is from a chinese long hair admiration website. I just suppose she has naturally 1a hair, which is why the hair on the head is so smooth and that there is absolutely no air in the braid until it somewhat starts to pouf due to the older hair that has gotten frizzier. The braid is held by the person who took the picture, so its out of perspective as it's moving towards the camera. Still i think this would easily be more than 5.5" cincumfence, which i find fascinating on super smooth hair. I'm a 2c, but i do straighten it to match up with that idea. When it's straightened my hair looks nice and thick, but not as heavy as hers does. When it braid it in its natural state, i make sure to get it really damp before i start, otherwise the volume would be to much for my tiny head. Sound like our hair is somewhat alike, giving us a hard time to tame it. But we should be thankful to have thaaat much to work with. :)

MINAKO
April 30th, 2014, 10:32 AM
Nicely said. That photo is totally fake.

I don't know why it appears photoshopped to others, to me it just seem like the braid is being held by the photographer whos standing a few feet away, so the braid enlarges slightly as it moves towards the lens. ;) There must be some unretouched images left on the web, i've seen people here too, who have comparable hair. So i don't think its fake.

MINAKO
April 30th, 2014, 10:36 AM
Here, same thing. We can even see the other persons finger and the shadow that clearly shows the braid is in a somewhat lifted position. :)

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7118/6849739316_57b259171b_z.jpg

eva888
April 30th, 2014, 10:37 AM
I don't know why it appears photoshopped to others, to me it just seem like the braid is being held by the photographer whos standing a few feet away, so the braid enlarges slightly as it moves towards the lens. ;) There must be some unretouched images left on the web, i've seen people here too, who have comparable hair. So i don't think its fake.

Sorry if I seemed rude :) I definitely thought the photographer was holding the braid as well, so because of perspective and everything it's not as thick as it seems. Also when you see pictures online you never know if people are wearing extensions.

eva888
April 30th, 2014, 10:39 AM
Here, same thing. We can even see the other persons finger and the shadow that clearly shows the braid is in a somewhat lifted position. :)

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7118/6849739316_57b259171b_z.jpg

That person's hair looks so healthy :shocked: At least it's nice to see the finger at the bottom so you can tell that there is a taper (or massive thumbs).

MINAKO
April 30th, 2014, 10:46 AM
Yepp, i think it's almost impossible to be completely taper free, something that would be reserved to those with an out of this world terminal growth. I'm fine with it to as long as i don't get any splits. My hair was pretty full on the ends until it reached lower waist, But i think it even looks better on me this way as i'm tall with a iny frame. A massive blunt hemline would look like a coat. I'm only partially asian, so in my case the hair sadly doesn't get anywhere close to that typical shine. :(

chen bao jun
April 30th, 2014, 11:10 AM
Here, same thing. We can even see the other persons finger and the shadow that clearly shows the braid is in a somewhat lifted position. :)

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7118/6849739316_57b259171b_z.jpg
This lady's hair looks authentic to me, definitely. If the other one was from the same site, maybe I was just mistaken about it and it is something about the way the photo is taken. In this latest one, the thickness of the hair on the head matches the thickness of the braid, even though the hair is 1a or 1b and it is smooth, there is thickness on the head that's not apparent in the other photo. Thanks for your gracious reply and your explanation, Minako. As I said in my post, I know it is quite possible for braids to be that fat, and even fatter, and not just on curly hair types. I actually lived for some time in Taiwan and I definitely saw thick hair there, although I have to say, unfortunately I never saw long hair, it was totally the style to cut it off short at that time and also to get such curly perms that the hair looked like afros, which is fine, except that I love the beauty of 1a and 1b hair as well as the beauty of curly hair and it seemed a shame to destroy the texture like that.
I think your hair is beautiful, though as I said, I do love also the 'ideal' in East Asian hair, lacquer smooth and blue-black and silky, which of course is an 'ideal' that few people actually have, like any other ideal. And other types can be beautiful also, as yours is.
I also do love to look at braids. To me, braids are where thick hair really comes into its own and they are the ideal hairstyle for us thickies, who so often can have trouble looking good in other styles. I look forward to getting rid of my taper so that my braids (or 'plaits') as we call them in my country) look decent to me. I do like to be careful about looking at photos of others' hair though since not only is there photoshopping going on over a lot of the web, and of course the extensions and false hair, too, but a lot of the times the web will show the extreme. That is, the person's hair is completely real but they are like in 99.9999 percentile and can make it easy for others to get dissatisfied and long over what is unattainable unless you are genetically blessed to the nth degree. We can get like my 6 ft.4 inch tall brother who, as I am fond of saying, is the 'short brother'--because the other one is almost 6 ft. 7. So its fun to look to admire but not if its going to make us insecure or dissatisfied.

tetisheri72
April 30th, 2014, 11:13 AM
I don't know why it appears photoshopped to others, to me it just seem like the braid is being held by the photographer whos standing a few feet away, so the braid enlarges slightly as it moves towards the lens. ;) There must be some unretouched images left on the web, i've seen people here too, who have comparable hair. So i don't think its fake.

No. It's totally fake.

MINAKO
April 30th, 2014, 12:52 PM
Well, it doesnt matter so much to me i guess. In your opinion it's fake, in my opinion it's the angle and that the woman is showing off her beautiful hair, just like any of us would do. But there's nothing to prove on either side. I clearly stated it is a random picture i found online.

MINAKO
April 30th, 2014, 01:12 PM
This lady's hair looks authentic to me, definitely. If the other one was from the same site, maybe I was just mistaken about it and it is something about the way the photo is taken. In this latest one, the thickness of the hair on the head matches the thickness of the braid, even though the hair is 1a or 1b and it is smooth, there is thickness on the head that's not apparent in the other photo. Thanks for your gracious reply and your explanation, Minako. As I said in my post, I know it is quite possible for braids to be that fat, and even fatter, and not just on curly hair types. I actually lived for some time in Taiwan and I definitely saw thick hair there, although I have to say, unfortunately I never saw long hair, it was totally the style to cut it off short at that time and also to get such curly perms that the hair looked like afros, which is fine, except that I love the beauty of 1a and 1b hair as well as the beauty of curly hair and it seemed a shame to destroy the texture like that.
I think your hair is beautiful, though as I said, I do love also the 'ideal' in East Asian hair, lacquer smooth and blue-black and silky, which of course is an 'ideal' that few people actually have, like any other ideal. And other types can be beautiful also, as yours is.
I also do love to look at braids. To me, braids are where thick hair really comes into its own and they are the ideal hairstyle for us thickies, who so often can have trouble looking good in other styles. I look forward to getting rid of my taper so that my braids (or 'plaits') as we call them in my country) look decent to me. I do like to be careful about looking at photos of others' hair though since not only is there photoshopping going on over a lot of the web, and of course the extensions and false hair, too, but a lot of the times the web will show the extreme. That is, the person's hair is completely real but they are like in 99.9999 percentile and can make it easy for others to get dissatisfied and long over what is unattainable unless you are genetically blessed to the nth degree. We can get like my 6 ft.4 inch tall brother who, as I am fond of saying, is the 'short brother'--because the other one is almost 6 ft. 7. So its fun to look to admire but not if its going to make us insecure or dissatisfied.

Yes, i agree. You have a point in not stressing oneself to a level where we would get dissatisfied. I accepted that i can't have the type of supersmooth asian hair i strive for, no matter how much i take care of it. Mine does grow slighty nappy in places and there'S nothing i can do. It does look nice tho when it's straightened, just isn't that glossy, but has more of pearly shine. As fpr thickness i think i reached my maximum, becuase i have been growing it for quiet some time, been very gently and only used indigo to get a rich black color. SO it's chemical free and the heat damage from straightening is almost undetectable. It might become a problem one day if i was to grow my hair out way past classic, but i dont intend to do so and think i'm goint to reach my personal happy spot anytime soon.
Most of the inspiration i get is from chinese websites, and as they often provide videos with the photos, its very likely they just show authentic long hair. In many the do hairstyles, where the parts would be clearly visible and extensions are known to come from that country rather then being consumed. Of course there are chinese women who wear them too. But at the end of the day someone has to grow them first, right? I've seen indian braids, even thicker than these. Actually a girl in my class had two massive english braids every day and i always wished to have her hair, as it was at least 1b/1c. But wishing for other peoples hair ain't gonna work antime soon, so we have to be confindent about our own and educated ourselves as much as possible about how to take care of it in the best way possible.
I can understand folks with straight hair getting a perm, as well as i can understand people who tell me i should embrace my waves all natural, but as far as i dont see a negative aspect from styling it, i just enjoy having both options.
I hope we continue to grow it healthily and enjoy more and mooore of it. (I wanted to cut a bob earlier this year and didn't go for it. Lucky me, i'm sure the urge will be back at some point, but even that would be alright, it does kepp coming back anyways) :)

chen bao jun
April 30th, 2014, 02:24 PM
Well, as I said, Minako, your hair is beautiful. The pearly shine is nice and the indigo looks very good, I thought your hair was black.
Yes, Chinese women do grow amazing hair. I think it is a shame that short, styled hair has got to be the fashion there because their natural hair, all things being equal, is astonishing. The lengths it can attain are just crazy and yes, there are quite a few women whose hair is very thick there, also, although the Asian Indians have the advantage on that. There is a decentish sized Asian Indian population where I was born, when I was young they tended to do traditional natural hair care and the thickness of the plaits was unbelievable to people who weren't used to seeing it. There are also a lot of native American descent people in that country who also just wore their hair in long plaits and they have some thickness, too. The rest of us can't compete, the whole standard is different. I have to say though, that when I started meeting young women from Eastern Europe, Ukraine, Poland and Russia, some of them can match up with crazy thickness, and yes, plaits that appear to have no taper at very long lengths, because the terminal is so long.
But thin and fine hair can be beautiful too, in a different way. It doesn't make impressive braids, but it looks silky and floaty and haloey and lovely at its best.
I am mixed race (what they call multigenerational, my great-grandparents were several different races and ethnicities) and a lot of my heritage is African descent, which is why I am a tightly curly. I doubt I will get to extreme lengths, like knee and beyond, that doesn't seem to happen for us unless we do something like dreadlocks (which I always think is cheating because the shed hair is still attached to your head, no offense to anyone, just my opinion). However, I have multiple family members who reached waist and my grandmother reached classic, and this was even with hair that had shrinkage and always appears shorter than it is. So I am just treating it right, like you and seeing what will happen. I hope I get to waist--I am pretty sure now that I will get to waist stretched, but I hope to get to waist visually. My goal is to have a single braid to my waist that doesn't start tapering before midback, not the rat's tail I have now. But it has defnitely improved since being on LHC so I have hope.
See what I mean about the rat-tail:
http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a481/uloma1/braidmarch2012_zps0f333fb1.jpg (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/uloma1/media/braidmarch2012_zps0f333fb1.jpg.html)

MINAKO
April 30th, 2014, 03:12 PM
This has been the case where i live as well. I've hardly ever seen any any people on the street that have the type of hair as can be found on these chinese websites. I do admire it so much because the rountine of these women seems so minimalistic, they really don't use alot of product aside from Shampoo and certail oils, their hair is strong, resistant and probably grows at the speed of around an inch per month without significant shedding on the other hand.
We have quiet soething in common, as im also mixed race of european, asian and african descend. SO my texture reflects a bit of everything. Thickness and growth is sure somewhat influenced by the asian part, while i dont have C hair though but about 20% of it, as well as super fine hair in the Underlayers and also hair that is curly but has tiny kinks here and there. It used to be pretty even in riglets when i was a kid, but changed over time and additional lenght also softens the pattern. So basically i went from 3b to somewhat 2c whit alot of different strands that would hang straight up to 1c.
Straightening it was quiet a challenge at the beginning, but now that im getting it right, it does have benefits in terms of protecting my hair. It might sound silly, because everyone knows heat isnt good, but its doesnt seem to be as harmful on my hair as its natural state would be with all the tagles and frizz. I would be snapping my ends of all the time.
It's totally alright to have taper during the growth period tho, i think i got rid of most of it last year when i trimmed about 4 inches at once. It did feel great after the cut and was well worth it. Now i can go slow with microtrimms, but i think the real key to prevent damage ist wearing hair in a protective style as much as possible. Oiled buns are my go to style. Even if nobody can see all that hair, it still gives alot of confidence.
Your hair looks healthy, so it will thicken up nicely at the ends with time as well.
I don't even have a pic of my braid like this but will try to take more pictures to document my good hair days in an album.

Nadine <3
April 30th, 2014, 03:21 PM
Well my braids are about the thickness of magic markers...so anything thicker than that seems "thick", at least to me.

FallingDarkness
April 30th, 2014, 04:12 PM
Wow I was not expecting this much feedback! :o Thanks! I think that I just put higher standards for myself, because even when my hair is French braided it's about 2 inches across... :) I should go measure the thickness of my English braid too. :o
For the record, I think that French braids look a lot prettier and are more flattering for my face than English braids are, but that's just me. Plus they look more intricate/fancy. :P

vindo
April 30th, 2014, 07:00 PM
To me the braid also seems real. I have taken pictures from this angle of a friends braid and it does look thicker towards the end that way. There are Asian women that have this incredibly thick hair, that does not look as thick because it is so sleek.
Before hair loss my hair was close to 4" which is fairly thick, yet because of my texture everyone would always comment on how incredibly thin it is! Even on LHC many thought my hair was thin and fine :lol:...


This has been the case where i live as well. I've hardly ever seen any any people on the street that have the type of hair as can be found on these chinese websites. I do admire it so much because the rountine of these women seems so minimalistic, they really don't use alot of product aside from Shampoo and certail oils, their hair is strong, resistant and probably grows at the speed of around an inch per month without significant shedding on the other hand.

Asian hair grows 1.2 cm/ 0.5" on average (Caucasian hair 1cm (0.39") and African hair 0.8 cm (0.3"). Asian hair strands are thicker and rounder which can contribute to a thicker braid too :).
And yes the routine is quite simple and I think genetically Asians are not as prone to developing hormonal imbalances or other diseases that can affect the quality of hair. The diet is often also a bit healthier.

To answer your question:
I consider a thick braid anything over 9 cm (3.5"). Not sure why, but to me it just seems most people have less hair than that so to me that is where thick starts and braids at that thickness can look pretty wide.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_x2czJadY_hg/TTtXrJscgaI/AAAAAAAAABk/IZpgkGgDtiY/s1600/hair1.JPG
Not sure how thick her hair is but I'm guessing a bit over 4" maybe. It looks thick to me despite some taper.

MINAKO
April 30th, 2014, 07:23 PM
Thank you for explaining a little more in depth Emichiee. I also thin diet and overall heath contributes in the most important way and might be a reason for some people having a hard time to reach the peak of potential growth. But becoming aware of these things is the first step. After all, if we get those things right, it's not only the hair that profits from the inprovement.
Yes, thats the thing with pin straight hair. When i wear my down, i do straighten it and despite all the hype for voluminous hair, i just love when its sleek and really dense. I know alot of people would mistake flat and silky hair for thin, but to me it isn't because you can still tell fom the density of the "curtain" that it must be alot of hair.

chen bao jun
April 30th, 2014, 07:35 PM
Now that photo emichiee posted, you can see that that is thick hair, it is in a French braid so I know it looks thinner than it is, but it looks pretty thick to me. I think the OP might have crazy standards for herself, indeed. A lot of us do.
Emichiee quoted the usual figures for average hair growth of the different races. I guess those are averages, but it can vary a lot. My hair grows a lot faster than the figure for AFrican hair, its easily .75 a month. And my mom's grows even faster, though she's already 82 years old. However, my hair takes a long, long time to look as if there's any more length because of curl shrinkage. and my mom used to have the worse problem that the ends were breaking off faster than it grew. It was never longer than ear length before the last couple of years no matter what she did. Then we figured out the retention thing and suddenly she has all this hair, I swear it must be an inch a month, though with her shrinkage (much more than mine) it takes even longer to look 'long'. But I swear she went from ear length to armpit in 8 or 9 months, its taken me 2x as long.
I guess I'm saying is that I believe that EastAsian hair on average grows very fast and it also grows way longer, if you let it, but they do have the advantage that you can see every little bit it grows, too, which is NOT the case with us tightly curly African descent people.
I must say that I am also SURE that the average East Asian has a longer terminal time than that 7 years they always quote. It has to be. Japanese women used to regularly grow their hair past their feet in the Heian period. And right now all the people with the record lengths of hair are in China, including that lady with the 18 foot hair--the hair cannot be falling off the head after a mere seven years no matter how fast it grows.

vindo
May 1st, 2014, 08:08 PM
Chen Bao Jun

Estrogen Levels and Progesterone levels can affect how long hair grows, which is also why so many experience "fuller" hair in pregnancy. What happens is that the hair sheds less for some and it also grows longer, resulting in less taper. We all know that taper can make hair appear thinner that it is circumference wise...

In Asian women the Estrogen/ Progesterone levels are different. I don't exactly recall the exact levels but it affects their skin, hair and nails.
And yes, average growth varies a lot and not everyone grows an average amount :). Mine grows faster than average too (at least one thing it can do aside from fall out :lol).


Thank you for explaining a little more in depth Emichiee. I also thin diet and overall heath contributes in the most important way and might be a reason for some people having a hard time to reach the peak of potential growth. But becoming aware of these things is the first step. After all, if we get those things right, it's not only the hair that profits from the inprovement.
Yes, thats the thing with pin straight hair. When i wear my down, i do straighten it and despite all the hype for voluminous hair, i just love when its sleek and really dense. I know alot of people would mistake flat and silky hair for thin, but to me it isn't because you can still tell fom the density of the "curtain" that it must be alot of hair.

Exactly, my hair used to form this curtain and I was able to spread it out over my back like that. The ends were a bit see through, but the top was just endless density. I never quite understood how people can't estimate if they see thin hair or not, but I guess I just can't see it with their eyes.

Diet really affects your health, maybe not when you are young, but the older you get, the more problems can accumulate. Not eating well can deplete your body of nutrients, and lead to illnesses that will in turn lead to flawed beauty (and bad hair of course). Then there are also people that are sensitive towards developing these problems, or they don't do well with certain foods but don't know it. That is why some are "lucky" and others suffer health problems. It is like a 'genetic tendency" to develop problems (but not irreversable).
The theory that it is always simply age is wrong imho. Age is a much smaller factor, yet we blame every health and beauty problem on age nowadays. That is pretty much what society teaches us anyway "take the band aid, we don't know of a cure." :/

chen bao jun
May 1st, 2014, 08:31 PM
thanks for your explanation of the estrogen and progesterone, Emichiee.
Yes, you are what you eat. I fear when seeing the depleted fad diets it seems many follow nowadays. It is so important to be nourished properly and it does show up when you are older.
I have contact with many orphans adopted now who were starved when young. The growth is stunted, they have diseases that are supposed to have been eradicated years ago, horrible teeth--mostly their hair is great though, they are from Ukraine. they all have a lot of hair actually that looks very good even when they arrive and are a mess, and it looks even better later. Odd.
There is some genetic component to hair, but I'm sure diet matters too. I've always been very well nourished as my mother was into health food, never let us eat candy (she told me I was allergic to chocolate actually, when I'm not), baked her own whole meal bread, garden, fresh vegetables, very careful about the meat she fed us (way before people were talking about organic, she was saying not to eat chickens that 'hadn't scratched'). I have only had one cavity in my life and have no health issues at age 57. I did have diabetes 14 years ago but diet and exercise cured it without taking any medication.
and my hair is fine.

duchess67
May 1st, 2014, 08:33 PM
I don't think it is photo shopped either. I have a friend here in Canada whose hair is unbelievably thick, thicker than my arm which has hardly has any taper at all. We have to see it to believe it! It grows longer faster, she keeps trimming it till classic length says otherwise she cannot manage it. She prefers to keep it loose, sometimes braided, buns are out of the question, says it feels so heavy on her head.

I've friends in India who has very thick hair as well. So hair that grows without taper is indeed possible.


I don't know why it appears photoshopped to others, to me it just seem like the braid is being held by the photographer whos standing a few feet away, so the braid enlarges slightly as it moves towards the lens. ;) There must be some unretouched images left on the web, i've seen people here too, who have comparable hair. So i don't think its fake.

MINAKO
May 1st, 2014, 11:58 PM
Chen Bao Jun

Estrogen Levels and Progesterone levels can affect how long hair grows, which is also why so many experience "fuller" hair in pregnancy. What happens is that the hair sheds less for some and it also grows longer, resulting in less taper. We all know that taper can make hair appear thinner that it is circumference wise...

In Asian women the Estrogen/ Progesterone levels are different. I don't exactly recall the exact levels but it affects their skin, hair and nails.
And yes, average growth varies a lot and not everyone grows an average amount :). Mine grows faster than average too (at least one thing it can do aside from fall out :lol).
I didn't know about the difference in hormone Levels either, just that an imbalance can lead to problems in general, but interesting to know that it's also a bit of a nativity question. That's what i was saying. Everytime you post something i actually learn from it. Again, thank you! :o



Exactly, my hair used to form this curtain and I was able to spread it out over my back like that. The ends were a bit see through, but the top was just endless density. I never quite understood how people can't estimate if they see thin hair or not, but I guess I just can't see it with their eyes.

Diet really affects your health, maybe not when you are young, but the older you get, the more problems can accumulate. Not eating well can deplete your body of nutrients, and lead to illnesses that will in turn lead to flawed beauty (and bad hair of course). Then there are also people that are sensitive towards developing these problems, or they don't do well with certain foods but don't know it. That is why some are "lucky" and others suffer health problems. It is like a 'genetic tendency" to develop problems (but not irreversable).
The theory that it is always simply age is wrong imho. Age is a much smaller factor, yet we blame every health and beauty problem on age nowadays. That is pretty much what society teaches us anyway "take the band aid, we don't know of a cure." :/

I remember seeing a pifture of you ages ago, with darker reddish hair, grey jeans and tanktop in the bathroom, about tailbone lenght. It actually did contribute to the wish for growing mine longer and get it as straight as possible. I cant always wear it this way because heat after every wash would be too much, but i use a safe version of the keratin treatment and so far my hair has gotten more managable without any significant damage. Some people did comment on me as well, that the prefer the volume and bounce of some sort of waves on me, but i don't care, nothing feels better to me than having it very sleek and smooth. ;)

As for the health, some things are really not in our hands, but i wish more people would actually start to understand to target a problem the right way. Eating right and taking care of overall good physical condition is important. Sadly i did notice that recently it seem to be a big thing again for young people to excessively diet and think they can make up for the lack of nutrient with something like hairvits, which just contains stuff that is found in healthy foods anyways. But supplements like this are being promoted like crazy, and when people stop taking them, they still have no understanding, that all this could work permantly fine if they just adjust theit habits to their bodys needs.

chen bao jun, it's funny as i read what your mom did tell you, mine was kind of similar, but as a matter of fact, i did deal with a whole lot of allergies as a kid and they gradually went away COMPLETELY. If the price for good deal of great health is tasty, fresh, organic alternatives instead of candy and fastfood, i will always glady pay it. :cool:

eadwine
May 2nd, 2014, 01:16 AM
Keep in mind that these pregnant women shed like the bejeezers once that ends! ;)

Dreams_in_Pink
May 2nd, 2014, 01:37 AM
Here we measure thickness in "wrist" units :D If the braid is as thick as your wrist, you have thick hair. Rather unrealistic if you ask me, only those lovely longhaired indian ladies comply with that rule :)

Rosa Harris
May 2nd, 2014, 01:44 AM
I am always amazed at the hair here. My hair is puny by comparison when braided or bunned up - but you can see in my sig it really fluffs. There is actually lots and lots of cat-hair like strands. Now that I am babying its curls it fluffs even more which is nice. I do envy those who can make massive braids because then people KNOW its actually there. Its almost freaky to me the disappearing act my hair does braided!

Take a peak! (laughing at self) I'm not complaining, tho. I see the trouble my fluffy son goes through. I braided his down his back for graduation and it was freakin huge. It takes him an hour to wash his hair in the shower because he has to get the conditioner IN, dangle his curls and then get it out. Me - hell I can 5 minute shower with complete body wash and hair condition.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7005/13934570731_afc9a2c9fa_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nemjpv)elling woman 2 001 (https://flic.kr/p/nemjpv) by rosarl13 (https://www.flickr.com/people/121893704@N04/), on Flickr

MINAKO
May 2nd, 2014, 02:01 AM
I can't get over the thickness of this ponytail, would so love to see that braided, or even better, braid exactly this hair on myself. :p
https://www.flickr.com/photos/23326079@N06/13343218125/sizes/l/in/photostream/

Dreams_in_Pink
May 2nd, 2014, 02:04 AM
I can't get over the thickness of this ponytail, would so love to see that braided, or even better, braid exactly this hair on myself. :p
https://www.flickr.com/photos/23326079@N06/13343218125/sizes/l/in/photostream/

Okay, that's a LOT of hair! :bigeyes:

Rosa Harris
May 2nd, 2014, 02:32 AM
I can't get over the thickness of this ponytail, would so love to see that braided, or even better, braid exactly this hair on myself. :p
https://www.flickr.com/photos/23326079@N06/13343218125/sizes/l/in/photostream/
I'd be happy with half that on my head!

Anabell
May 2nd, 2014, 02:58 AM
I considered braid thick if it covers most of my neck. It doesn't happens, unfortunately. On the other side, it is heavy enough the way it is. And it does look huge in buns...

Stray_mind
May 2nd, 2014, 03:40 AM
I consider my own braid medium to low thickness. I consider a braid thick when it's ... um... Thick and heavy looking. It has to look thick from the side too, because some braids just flats themselves out and from the side it lookes like a tape or something.. I think i could consider a braid thick if it would be as wide and round as my wrist. My wrist is about 2-3 inches wide...

Cania
May 2nd, 2014, 03:52 AM
Just weighing in to say the braid looks 'shopped to me. No doubt braids that thick exist, but it definitely looks off. Notice how the little flyaways are evident near the ponytail, yet there are none in the bottom half where the colour and shine seems to change? Makes the 'border' of the braid look harsh against the dress, where the line is soft higher up. Maybe it is real, but it looks very suspect to me :P Maybe she was trying on her goal length, like the thread on here :D

lapushka
May 2nd, 2014, 06:35 AM
If a braid of someone with iii hair isn't thick enough for you, then something is *terribly* wrong with this forum, pardon my intervention!

Stray_mind
May 2nd, 2014, 06:41 AM
Well, iii hair itself is considered thick, so the braids made of such hair are also thick.. :) But i consider some braids made of ii hair thick too.

chen bao jun
May 2nd, 2014, 07:44 AM
Here we measure thickness in "wrist" units :D If the braid is as thick as your wrist, you have thick hair. Rather unrealistic if you ask me, only those lovely longhaired indian ladies comply with that rule :)
Interesting. the only woman I know who is from Turkey does have a braid as thick as her wrist though--or would if she wasn't layering it now. It used to be be waist length but since being in the US she has cut it, layered it, dyed it a reddish color in streaks and now dyed it black again..However it is really thick hair. It is 1b or c and you can still see there's a massive amount of it.
I can see that the standard would be different in a country like India where like everyone seems to have amazing thick hair. As I said before, in the country where I am from, the native American women have massively thick hair, too. It does seem to vary somewhat by ethnicity, what is possible, as well as by the individual's genetic.
I think everyone will have a different idea as to how much hair you need to be considered 'thick' however. On LHC we do seem to have rather high standards for this. The unusual starts to look like the norm that 'should' be aspired to a lot on forums, which can be skewed first by the fact of who the group is and secondly, by who tends to post photos. I think one could get an unrealistic idea of how much of the population has iii hair by being on here, because I think a lot of iii people tend to want to grow their hair long, simply because it is unmanageable any other way a lot of the time. But still the iii people are far from the majority of the forum. There are couple of longrunning threads devoted to thin or fine hair that have a vast amount of posts, while the thick hair threads tend to be die quickly, because there's a lot less of us.
I don't think anyone in this thread said that iii hair did not make a thick braid though.
As I've said several times, if everyone wore braids, people with iii hair would be really happy and have no complaints. iii hair is just made for braiding and looks superb then. You read threads of iii people complaining because their updos aren't comfortable or that they can't do updoes until a certain length; you read threads of iii people complaining about busting hairtoys and implements; you read threads of iii people considering whether or not to layer and complaining about the triangle effect of loose hair, and certainly you read threads of iii people talking about the suffering at the hairdresser. iii has its good and bad points. But braids are a definite GOOD point, they are just made for us. Too bad they aren't in style, as they are among traditional Indians and native Americans (probably because braids so suit their thick hair).

Anabell
May 2nd, 2014, 02:52 PM
I am always amazed at the hair here. My hair is puny by comparison when braided or bunned up - but you can see in my sig it really fluffs. There is actually lots and lots of cat-hair like strands. Now that I am babying its curls it fluffs even more which is nice. I do envy those who can make massive braids because then people KNOW its actually there. Its almost freaky to me the disappearing act my hair does braided!

Take a peak! (laughing at self) I'm not complaining, tho. I see the trouble my fluffy son goes through. I braided his down his back for graduation and it was freakin huge. It takes him an hour to wash his hair in the shower because he has to get the conditioner IN, dangle his curls and then get it out. Me - hell I can 5 minute shower with complete body wash and hair condition.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7005/13934570731_afc9a2c9fa_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nemjpv)elling woman 2 001 (https://flic.kr/p/nemjpv) by rosarl13 (https://www.flickr.com/people/121893704@N04/), on Flickr

It's a little of topic but I really like the color of your hair. Is it your natural color or do you use some kind of dye or henna?

meteor
May 2nd, 2014, 03:08 PM
I think a single braid is a very compact style. I've seen women with thick hair putting it into a pretty thin braid, so very thick braids are pretty rare.


Here we measure thickness in "wrist" units :D If the braid is as thick as your wrist, you have thick hair. Rather unrealistic if you ask me, only those lovely longhaired indian ladies comply with that rule :)
Well, it really depends on the size of the wrist though. Different people have different arm sizes. My braid is thicker than my wrist, but I have small wrists.

I have a question. My braid is thick after I've washed my hair, but a few days and a couple spoons of oil later it gets sleeker of course, but also looks a bit thinner to me. How can this happen if I'm adding product? Has anybody else noticed this about their hair?

ETA: Sorry, guys. I think I asked a stupid question! :) It probably doesn't look as thick when drenched in oil for the exact same reason that hair doesn't look as thick when it's wet versus dry! LOL

vindo
May 4th, 2014, 08:33 AM
thanks for your explanation of the estrogen and progesterone, Emichiee.
Yes, you are what you eat. I fear when seeing the depleted fad diets it seems many follow nowadays. It is so important to be nourished properly and it does show up when you are older.
I have contact with many orphans adopted now who were starved when young. The growth is stunted, they have diseases that are supposed to have been eradicated years ago, horrible teeth--mostly their hair is great though, they are from Ukraine. they all have a lot of hair actually that looks very good even when they arrive and are a mess, and it looks even better later. Odd.
There is some genetic component to hair, but I'm sure diet matters too. I've always been very well nourished as my mother was into health food, never let us eat candy (she told me I was allergic to chocolate actually, when I'm not), baked her own whole meal bread, garden, fresh vegetables, very careful about the meat she fed us (way before people were talking about organic, she was saying not to eat chickens that 'hadn't scratched'). I have only had one cavity in my life and have no health issues at age 57. I did have diabetes 14 years ago but diet and exercise cured it without taking any medication.
and my hair is fine.

Interesting! My family was never very much into health diets, but they believed that what they are eating overall is healthy enough (it really isn't too bad because at least most foods were fresh, many Germans cook a lot). They were not on board with me when it comes to limiting sugar (my son only gets it for special occasions) or to avoid processed foods with certain harmful ingredients, but they are starting to catch on. :) Great to hear you have no health issues and your diabetes vanished! I also rid myself of quite a few health issues since changing my diet years ago.

I noticed that children's hair is much less affected by health issues. Their hormones aren't working the way adult's hormones are though, so that could be a contributing factor. Then they also have youth going for them :) Their hair is usually virgin hair. There are probably other reason's too though, just these came to mind right now. I hope these children are better health wise now.

vindo
May 4th, 2014, 08:46 AM
Keep in mind that these pregnant women shed like the bejeezers once that ends! ;)

I did shed a lot, for three months, my hair was still TBL after and not too thinned. It can be survived ;)


I didn't know about the difference in hormone Levels either, just that an imbalance can lead to problems in general, but interesting to know that it's also a bit of a nativity question. That's what i was saying. Everytime you post something i actually learn from it. Again, thank you! :o
You are welcome :) There are differences, also when it comes to skin and aging or even cellulite.


I remember seeing a pifture of you ages ago, with darker reddish hair, grey jeans and tanktop in the bathroom, about tailbone lenght. It actually did contribute to the wish for growing mine longer and get it as straight as possible. I cant always wear it this way because heat after every wash would be too much, but i use a safe version of the keratin treatment and so far my hair has gotten more managable without any significant damage. Some people did comment on me as well, that the prefer the volume and bounce of some sort of waves on me, but i don't care, nothing feels better to me than having it very sleek and smooth. ;)

As for the health, some things are really not in our hands, but i wish more people would actually start to understand to target a problem the right way. Eating right and taking care of overall good physical condition is important. Sadly i did notice that recently it seem to be a big thing again for young people to excessively diet and think they can make up for the lack of nutrient with something like hairvits, which just contains stuff that is found in healthy foods anyways. But supplements like this are being promoted like crazy, and when people stop taking them, they still have no understanding, that all this could work permantly fine if they just adjust theit habits to their bodys needs.

chen bao jun, it's funny as i read what your mom did tell you, mine was kind of similar, but as a matter of fact, i did deal with a whole lot of allergies as a kid and they gradually went away COMPLETELY. If the price for good deal of great health is tasty, fresh, organic alternatives instead of candy and fastfood, i will always glady pay it. :cool:

Oh I wonder which picture that was haha. My old hair pictures went viral :/ Now I watermark them. Glad your hair seems to be doing well with the keratin treatment. Some hair is so resiliant it can grow long despite things like dye, straightening or bleach.

I think most people don't understand that depletion can happen easily. Some are the type to laugh about healthy living or foods and even proudly exclaim it. I visit a fashion forum sometimes and there was a thread about what people eat. Some girls openly stated that they eat mostly burgers and fast foods and they don't care for healthy foods. They don't know about the consequences though. I think many don't know that an unhealthy diet can promote illnesses and that illnesses in turn can lead to ugliness. Many don't care about "little health problems" but once it turns ugly they panic :(

That is just the impression I get from many.

duchess67
May 4th, 2014, 08:58 AM
I agree with you, abnormally thick hair doesn't look that great in my eyes. I absolutely don't envy that thickness. All being said "beauty lies in the eye of the beholder"!



I considered braid thick if it covers most of my neck. It doesn't happens, unfortunately. On the other side, it is heavy enough the way it is. And it does look huge in buns...

vindo
May 4th, 2014, 09:16 AM
I think everyone will have a different idea as to how much hair you need to be considered 'thick' however. On LHC we do seem to have rather high standards for this. The unusual starts to look like the norm that 'should' be aspired to a lot on forums, which can be skewed first by the fact of who the group is and secondly, by who tends to post photos. I think one could get an unrealistic idea of how much of the population has iii hair by being on here, because I think a lot of iii people tend to want to grow their hair long, simply because it is unmanageable any other way a lot of the time. But still the iii people are far from the majority of the forum. There are couple of longrunning threads devoted to thin or fine hair that have a vast amount of posts, while the thick hair threads tend to be die quickly, because there's a lot less of us.


Before LHC I never thought about the thickness of my ponytail or braid actually! :lol: I think we should not be too focused on this because hair can look good at many thicknesses and they all have downsides an upsides.
If I had an extremely thick ponytail, like iii+i and would wear that down, there would be more hair than woman! :lol:, wearing my hair down with a bit less hair and some natural taper looks light and swingy and my roots have volume too. So it certainly would not be for me to have very thick hair or next to no taper.

Since having gone though all the sheds, my hair is thinner than ever, my ponytail isn't because it is growing back, but below my braid is looking much thinner. Yet, I get comments on how it looks thicker than in the past when I had a braid almost the width of my (tiny) wrist (though my braid never looks very fluffy from the side, maybe like 1 1/2 cm thick then? - Straight hair can do that) because my ends are more blunt.


I think a single braid is a very compact style. I've seen women with thick hair putting it into a pretty thin braid, so very thick braids are pretty rare.

Well, it really depends on the size of the wrist though. Different people have different arm sizes. My braid is thicker than my wrist, but I have small wrists.

I have a question. My braid is thick after I've washed my hair, but a few days and a couple spoons of oil later it gets sleeker of course, but also looks a bit thinner to me. How can this happen if I'm adding product? Has anybody else noticed this about their hair?

ETA: Sorry, guys. I think I asked a stupid question! :) It probably doesn't look as thick when drenched in oil for the exact same reason that hair doesn't look as thick when it's wet versus dry! LOL

Exactly! Some hair types fluff up and look much thicker! I have the opposite, my hair was the same when wet or dry or oiled, so even when I had thick hair I was often told how "incredibly thin" my hair is :p:confused:.
My husband has fluffy i-ii hair and when his hair was down, everyone always thought he had thick hair.

chen bao jun
May 4th, 2014, 01:09 PM
I think that if you are eating fresh food and cooking it at home you can't go all that wrong. The key is cooking it at home. A lot of Americans have gotten hugely fat in the past 20 or 25 years. I really believe this is 99% due to eating out a lot. When I had the diabetes and used to check my blood sugar constantly, I would eat the exact same thing and same portions at home and in a restaurant, and after the restaurant, my numbers always spiked up high. I mean, I would eat a chicken breast and a salad and get crazy high blood sugar. They definitely monkey around with restaurant food and fast food is very much worse. When you cook at home you don't add all the salt, sugar and oil that keeps you unhealthy and fat and yes, affects your hair and everything else.
Of course moving around a bit doesn't hurt either. If you eat fast food AND lie on the couch except when you get into a car to go somewhere (and scoot around on a scooter in the stores when you shop), you are not going to live a long, healthy life.

I went to a ball game yesterday and a friend was asking why my skin is good at age 57 (no wrinkles yet). She was asking what cream I use and what soap I wash with. I have had this conversation SO many times and I get tired of it because no one wants to hear what I have to say. It's not a cream and its not my soap. From the time I was young, I learned from my mother to avoid the sun (you need a little for vitamin D, but if you enough to tan, it was too much); avoid caffeine and cigarettes; get enough sleep, drink lots of water, make sure there is a little healthy fat in your diet and get some aerobic exercise. Too much sun is the NUMBER ONE reason women in their 30's have wrinkles in our modern society, this is not normal, it's destroyed skin. But no one wants to listen. I will get wrinkles like everybody else, the is normal in your late 50's and 60's--not age thirty or even forty. Darker skin gives you a bit of an advantage, but its very possible to be fairskinned and not look like a relief map by age 40--look at older photos of women from the days when they wore bonnets and carried parasols--middle aged women then did not have wrinkled skin.

So much of how you look comes from the inside out, but people want to do what they want and then get a magic pill (or cream) to fix it, and it just doesn't work like that. My mom is 83 and has some wrinkles now by the way, but she still doesn't look bad at all, and at her age she has a right to a few. She is right about diet, health and exercise and I hope her grandchildren listen to what she has to say..


Interesting! My family was never very much into health diets, but they believed that what they are eating overall is healthy enough (it really isn't too bad because at least most foods were fresh, many Germans cook a lot). They were not on board with me when it comes to limiting sugar (my son only gets it for special occasions) or to avoid processed foods with certain harmful ingredients, but they are starting to catch on. :) Great to hear you have no health issues and your diabetes vanished! I also rid myself of quite a few health issues since changing my diet years ago.

I noticed that children's hair is much less affected by health issues. Their hormones aren't working the way adult's hormones are though, so that could be a contributing factor. Then they also have youth going for them :) Their hair is usually virgin hair. There are probably other reason's too though, just these came to mind right now. I hope these children are better health wise now.

MINAKO
May 4th, 2014, 05:48 PM
Oh I wonder which picture that was haha. My old hair pictures went viral :/ Now I watermark them. Glad your hair seems to be doing well with the keratin treatment. Some hair is so resiliant it can grow long despite things like dye, straightening or bleach.

I think most people don't understand that depletion can happen easily. Some are the type to laugh about healthy living or foods and even proudly exclaim it. I visit a fashion forum sometimes and there was a thread about what people eat. Some girls openly stated that they eat mostly burgers and fast foods and they don't care for healthy foods. They don't know about the consequences though. I think many don't know that an unhealthy diet can promote illnesses and that illnesses in turn can lead to ugliness. Many don't care about "little health problems" but once it turns ugly they panic :(

That is just the impression I get from many.

It was this picture. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-n0AXP3fJZa8/UObclXRDiDI/AAAAAAAADdo/mt5H1Y2JmYc/s1600/551118_327655230672944_360003368_n.jpg
At first i wasn't really growing my hair. More like keeping it to see if the straightening causes any long term problems. But then seeing something like this i imagined how nice it would look on me too, if i just go further. :o
I've been reading that you had some problems with the copyright for pictures. Well i definetely see why people would like them, but stealing is never ok, especially when they try to advertise products you havent even heard of:confused:. Same with a friend of mine, she's a young russian model, very pretty with thick, golden blonde hair, BCL length with a blunt hemline, it's all hers but some folks keep on adding her pics to sell hair extensions.
So yeah, with inspiration of that kind i made it to BCL too and my hair does handle the heat very well, if i would color or chemically straighten tho i think it would break in no time.

People who think all they need to do to make up for junkfood is popping a vitamin are just so naive and uneducated about the matter. As a kind i found it hard sometimes to be raised to this awareness and was not allowed to eat certain things. But now i'm doing it for myself and think it's great. I actally do crave healthy things now and the plain thought of something nasty and processed just makes me sick to my stomach:mad:. Tho my diet is not as protein rich as it probably should be, i always struggle with that, but i don't really think it does make a difference on my hair. Plus, everyone in my family turn white pretty early, but keeps all their hair.
Counts for me too, that when i straighten it, seems to be just enough hair for my frame, when i dont i completely disappear, although i have a 12,3cm circumfence i don't consider my braids to be crazy thick (havent even taken a photo of it from the back but i dont think its anywhere close to what i've seen on some other people), but when its down the poufyness is just to much.

Sharysa
May 4th, 2014, 08:12 PM
My hair is undeniably thick in a single braid because it's almost a four-inch ponytail as well as coarse. As of right now, a single braid is as thick as my wrist; even considering I'm tiny, there aren't a lot of people who can say that.

darklyndsea
May 4th, 2014, 09:09 PM
At first I was baffled that so many people were saying that braids had to be as thick as their wrist to be thick to them, but I just measured my wrist and braid, and they're only 1/4" off (and my wrists are relatively thick). My braid's bound to be thinner when my hair's actually combed, though.

chen bao jun
May 4th, 2014, 09:19 PM
My wrist is definitely bigger than my braid, though I think of myself as having relatively small wrists--and I know I have thick hair and a fat braid (as I said before, partly becuase of the pouf, as anyone can see from my photo a few pages back).
I'm just stating that fact, by the way, no offense is meant to anyone, nor am I disagreeing with what anyone said. Maybe I jsut think my wrist is small, when it isn't? Anyway, I have no explanation whatsoever.

CurlyCap
May 5th, 2014, 01:46 AM
The thickest hair (and braid) I have ever seen is on one of my cousins. That entire part of the family occasionally sprouts a kid with ridiculously thick hair...but hers is legion.

It's not wrist thick. It's forearm thick. And I'm a BIG woman. Furthermore, all the strands are thick as sewing thread, so it just shocks me how much protein her body throws into maintaining her hair. Best part? It grows like 1-2" inches a month. She can beat me for volume and her hair is STRAIGHT.

Sadly, she has always seen her hair as a giant burden and started wearing inverted bobs as soon as she left her mother's house. She shaves about 3/4 of her head and just lets the rest hang over (artfully, she has a good stylist).

Her son inherited her hair and it's insane when you see how thick it has to be on the scalp to achieve that effect. He can run his hands through his head and you don't see scalp. You need to go up to him, part it, and hold the hair down to clearly see scalp.

Sooo.....to answer the OP's question: I grew up around some insanely thick hair and have ridiculous standards. I also say at least the size of my wrist (8" circumference).

Eisa
May 5th, 2014, 02:51 AM
My braid's almost the thickness of my wrist apparently, I wouldn't have thought it was! Although I think I have pretty small-ish wrists so I don't know if that still really counts as 'thick' or not, aha.

vindo
May 5th, 2014, 06:57 PM
I think that if you are eating fresh food and cooking it at home you can't go all that wrong. The key is cooking it at home. A lot of Americans have gotten hugely fat in the past 20 or 25 years. I really believe this is 99% due to eating out a lot. When I had the diabetes and used to check my blood sugar constantly, I would eat the exact same thing and same portions at home and in a restaurant, and after the restaurant, my numbers always spiked up high. I mean, I would eat a chicken breast and a salad and get crazy high blood sugar. They definitely monkey around with restaurant food and fast food is very much worse. When you cook at home you don't add all the salt, sugar and oil that keeps you unhealthy and fat and yes, affects your hair and everything else.
Of course moving around a bit doesn't hurt either. If you eat fast food AND lie on the couch except when you get into a car to go somewhere (and scoot around on a scooter in the stores when you shop), you are not going to live a long, healthy life.

I went to a ball game yesterday and a friend was asking why my skin is good at age 57 (no wrinkles yet). She was asking what cream I use and what soap I wash with. I have had this conversation SO many times and I get tired of it because no one wants to hear what I have to say. It's not a cream and its not my soap. From the time I was young, I learned from my mother to avoid the sun (you need a little for vitamin D, but if you enough to tan, it was too much); avoid caffeine and cigarettes; get enough sleep, drink lots of water, make sure there is a little healthy fat in your diet and get some aerobic exercise. Too much sun is the NUMBER ONE reason women in their 30's have wrinkles in our modern society, this is not normal, it's destroyed skin. But no one wants to listen. I will get wrinkles like everybody else, the is normal in your late 50's and 60's--not age thirty or even forty. Darker skin gives you a bit of an advantage, but its very possible to be fairskinned and not look like a relief map by age 40--look at older photos of women from the days when they wore bonnets and carried parasols--middle aged women then did not have wrinkled skin.

So much of how you look comes from the inside out, but people want to do what they want and then get a magic pill (or cream) to fix it, and it just doesn't work like that. My mom is 83 and has some wrinkles now by the way, but she still doesn't look bad at all, and at her age she has a right to a few. She is right about diet, health and exercise and I hope her grandchildren listen to what she has to say..

Hm, I think 57 is a fairly normal age for wrinkles :). It is amazing you don't have any! Considering how Collagen production slows down starting at 25, I think small lines can start to show anywhere from 25-35. Actual deep wrinkles are more likely to show later, but with an unhealthy life style lines can show earlier. I know many fairly young people with lines, and then others who barely have any when older.
You are right that life style and moderating sun exposure are a factor, but also health and hormones play a big part (that is where people back in the day were also healthier). Whacky hormones can age you as much as certain illnesses. I won't go into detail as it would get very long, but the topic is certainly interesting! :o

As far as diet goes, there is certainly something weird about restaurant food. I don't think the ingredients of popular chains are all that good.

For most people eating fresh foods really will do the trick and maybe less empty calories from the overload of carbs as in "a doughnut for breakfast, Pasta for lunch, a sandwich on the way home and rice for dinner...that is one way people take in too little nutrients from foods like veggies, meat and fruits :(

vindo
May 5th, 2014, 07:30 PM
It was this picture. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-n0AXP3fJZa8/UObclXRDiDI/AAAAAAAADdo/mt5H1Y2JmYc/s1600/551118_327655230672944_360003368_n.jpg
At first i wasn't really growing my hair. More like keeping it to see if the straightening causes any long term problems. But then seeing something like this i imagined how nice it would look on me too, if i just go further. :o
I've been reading that you had some problems with the copyright for pictures. Well i definetely see why people would like them, but stealing is never ok, especially when they try to advertise products you havent even heard of:confused:. Same with a friend of mine, she's a young russian model, very pretty with thick, golden blonde hair, BCL length with a blunt hemline, it's all hers but some folks keep on adding her pics to sell hair extensions.
So yeah, with inspiration of that kind i made it to BCL too and my hair does handle the heat very well, if i would color or chemically straighten tho i think it would break in no time.

People who think all they need to do to make up for junkfood is popping a vitamin are just so naive and uneducated about the matter. As a kind i found it hard sometimes to be raised to this awareness and was not allowed to eat certain things. But now i'm doing it for myself and think it's great. I actally do crave healthy things now and the plain thought of something nasty and processed just makes me sick to my stomach:mad:. Tho my diet is not as protein rich as it probably should be, i always struggle with that, but i don't really think it does make a difference on my hair. Plus, everyone in my family turn white pretty early, but keeps all their hair.
Counts for me too, that when i straighten it, seems to be just enough hair for my frame, when i dont i completely disappear, although i have a 12,3cm circumfence i don't consider my braids to be crazy thick (havent even taken a photo of it from the back but i dont think its anywhere close to what i've seen on some other people), but when its down the poufyness is just to much.

Oh yeah, that picture was on flickr, where most of my images were stolen from. I had to delete the whole account and now regret it because I don't have many of the pictures with me.
My hair has been offered for sale on websites, and often it is used on fake profiles. As well as my face actually. One person even became a moderator of a popular forum with my face...:rolleyes: So even though the watermarks aren't pretty, they are a must nowadays. Of course I can never fully avoid it, but I place them in a way where it is hard to remove them. Not sharing images isn't fun either,order f there is many positives to it when you blog about the things I do. ;)

Protein - there is also a thing like too much protein, which can even lead to hair loss. So loading up on protein isn't always the key, a balance is good. Men can take in more protein than women btw.
12,3 is really thick, that is one inch past ii/iii. Of course there is thicker hair, but I haven't seen many IRL. The thickest I measured was 13cm. The average is 7cm, which is almost half of that :p

chen bao jun
May 5th, 2014, 07:45 PM
Hm, I think 57 is a fairly normal age for wrinkles :). It is amazing you don't have any! Considering how Collagen production slows down starting at 25, I think small lines can start to show anywhere from 25-35. Actual deep wrinkles are more likely to show later, but with an unhealthy life style lines can show earlier. I know many fairly young people with lines, and then others who barely have any when older.
You are right that life style and moderating sun exposure are a factor, but also health and hormones play a big part (that is where people back in the day were also healthier). Whacky hormones can age you as much as certain illnesses. I won't go into detail as it would get very long, but the topic is certainly interesting! :o
(
I would love to accept a compliment, but actually, I don't know anybody from my country who has wrinkles at age 57. And there's a LOT of sun there. they might have a few fine lines, I don't know. but I do know that nobody from there ever thinks of telling me that I look unusually young for my age--and they spend a lot of time wondering what is going in America, because people they think are forty turn out to be in their early thirties, and worse. I myself was admiring a lady at my church for being in great shape and looking lovely for her age just yesterday and my husband said, how old do you think she is? I said, 70. He's like, she's only 50, she's younger than you. He said he had been shocked, too and only knew she was that young because her husband had told him. As for having fine lines as early as early as 25, people must cover them up well, I've never seen that. I was shocked at seeing them on 30 year olds.
But all these people live in the sun, come back from any vacation looking like tanned leather and admire each other, make fun of pale people and are embarassed at being 'too white', mow their lawns in the middle of the day without a hat and do all other kinds of things that jsut completely shock me. Honestly, my mom would have thought she was a failure as a mother if she had let me and my sister play outside between about 11 am and 2pm--on really sunny August days we couldn't go out until evening. If we had to, we had enormous sun hats on. and this was in New York city--there really isn't all that much sun there. In the tropics, where I'm from, if my granny went out after about 10:30, she was under a giant sun umbrella. As for being naked on the beach (my granny would have called a bikini 'naked') in direct sunlight for hours and hours, she would just have dropped dead from the very thought. And when we were five or six we learned, wash your face every night and put on oil when its still a little bit damp to moisturize, make sure you never go on diet that demands eating no oils and fats (becuase you'll dry up), don't ever drink coffee, don't drink strong tea, drink herbal teas and lots and lots of water. It was always 'watch out for your skin!" Because once its gone, its gone. All those things they promise you in ads don't actually work. You can do botox I suppose but put poison inside my face? I think not!
the wrinkles aren't the worst thing, around where we live we have an epidemic of skin cancer that starts when people are about fifty. And then they get careful. But its way too late.
I don't know as much as I should about hormones, in fact I don't know anything, I would appreciate if you could direct me to some information but maybe you could pm me because I think I'm thread jacking at this point. Thanks.
Seriously, surf around on the internet and look for pictures of those nineteenth century ladies under their bonnets--they have stiff faces because you had to wait around a long time for the camera to go off and it got boring, but they don't have wrinkles. This is a twentieth century phenomenon that is still with us in the the twenty-first.

meteor
May 5th, 2014, 09:10 PM
I would love to accept a compliment, but actually, I don't know anybody from my country who has wrinkles at age 57. And there's a LOT of sun there.
Chen bao jun, you are so wise! :) I always really enjoy reading your advice! And with your balanced and healthy approach, no wonder you don't have any wrinkles!
I agree about aging being somewhat country-specific - I met so many people from Africa who I thought were in their early 20's but then I found out they were already grandmas/grandpas and their own grandparents are still alive and healthy! And they swore that they don't do anything special to stay so young, and they said they weren't exceptionally young-looking compared to other people back home.
And you are so right about general skin care and especially avoiding the sun. Pale people are under a bit of pressure to cover up veins, redness and visible blemishes with tan - and I know from my own experience in Russia, people there (who age pretty fast) usually BAKE in the sun when they travel to warm countries (and I was so stupid as a kid, I did too!), with no sunscreen and often regardless of fast developing blisters, many women trying to speed up and intensify the tanning process as much as possible, for example, deliberately adding photosensitizing essential oils! I still see this being recommended on some Russian natural skin care websites/forums as "great natural tanning tips". shudder:

chen bao jun
May 6th, 2014, 06:44 PM
Meteor, I am so glad you s tay out of the sun! I really think at any point that you can manage to stop, you will avoid more damage which is a great thing! I am sorry to hear that anyone is promoting staying out in the sun with any kind of oil. then when they are done ruining your skin, I believe that the same people sell you so-called 'skin repair' which is mostly snake oil...I know many, many very pale people who look just lovely, it is so sad that there is a prejudice against pale skin and its so ridiculous. I love to see people with porcelain or cream colored or white skin as much as I love to see all the other skin colors. I don't think any particular color is superior to any other color, that's just as I said, prejudice. I doubt any one else notices the skin flaws that we tend to obsess about and I don't notice that paler people tend to have more visible blemishes than anyone else.
Our society promotes this strange looking ideal where the person has skin tanned brown and hair bleached white blonde, which is not seen in nature and looks very odd. I don't think it looks very good. Blonde people look good with their natural pale skin and people with naturally brown skin never look like leather. God just knows best, in my opinion.

vindo
May 7th, 2014, 03:23 PM
I would love to accept a compliment, but actually, I don't know anybody from my country who has wrinkles at age 57. And there's a LOT of sun there. they might have a few fine lines, I don't know. but I do know that nobody from there ever thinks of telling me that I look unusually young for my age--and they spend a lot of time wondering what is going in America, because people they think are forty turn out to be in their early thirties, and worse. I myself was admiring a lady at my church for being in great shape and looking lovely for her age just yesterday and my husband said, how old do you think she is? I said, 70. He's like, she's only 50, she's younger than you. He said he had been shocked, too and only knew she was that young because her husband had told him. As for having fine lines as early as early as 25, people must cover them up well, I've never seen that. I was shocked at seeing them on 30 year olds.
But all these people live in the sun, come back from any vacation looking like tanned leather and admire each other, make fun of pale people and are embarassed at being 'too white', mow their lawns in the middle of the day without a hat and do all other kinds of things that jsut completely shock me. Honestly, my mom would have thought she was a failure as a mother if she had let me and my sister play outside between about 11 am and 2pm--on really sunny August days we couldn't go out until evening. If we had to, we had enormous sun hats on. and this was in New York city--there really isn't all that much sun there. In the tropics, where I'm from, if my granny went out after about 10:30, she was under a giant sun umbrella. As for being naked on the beach (my granny would have called a bikini 'naked') in direct sunlight for hours and hours, she would just have dropped dead from the very thought. And when we were five or six we learned, wash your face every night and put on oil when its still a little bit damp to moisturize, make sure you never go on diet that demands eating no oils and fats (becuase you'll dry up), don't ever drink coffee, don't drink strong tea, drink herbal teas and lots and lots of water. It was always 'watch out for your skin!" Because once its gone, its gone. All those things they promise you in ads don't actually work. You can do botox I suppose but put poison inside my face? I think not!
the wrinkles aren't the worst thing, around where we live we have an epidemic of skin cancer that starts when people are about fifty. And then they get careful. But its way too late.
I don't know as much as I should about hormones, in fact I don't know anything, I would appreciate if you could direct me to some information but maybe you could pm me because I think I'm thread jacking at this point. Thanks.
Seriously, surf around on the internet and look for pictures of those nineteenth century ladies under their bonnets--they have stiff faces because you had to wait around a long time for the camera to go off and it got boring, but they don't have wrinkles. This is a twentieth century phenomenon that is still with us in the the twenty-first.

Oh the thing about hormones is very simple. Unbalanced hormones cause premature aging because collagen production is affected. It can also lead to skin issues like acne, eczema, yeast (very dry skin) that cause aging by breaking down collagen for example.
I had hormonal imbalances after pregnancy and used herbal supplements as well as diet to fix this. http://longhairedatheart.blogspot.de/2013/03/links-to-herbal-detox-hormone.html

I haven't found any good pictures of these 19th century ladies. Maybe you could link a few? It is hard to find out what age they were when the image was taken. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-a_M7Ctj5ocs/T1ieS0fMeXI/AAAAAAAAAO4/JBkPmtpCcfM/s1600/451px-09892u_unprocessed.jpg
No doubt though that they aged less "drastic", a lot of modern health issues like auto-immune diseases, diabetes etc. "can" age you., we are also exposed to more toxins and chemicals, many beauty products contain ingredients that can age your skin., then of course the sun exposure like you said.
My mother is 57 and I would say despite smoking and sun, she looks a bit younger than many German women in their late 50's. But, parts of her skin that are hardly ever, or even never exposed to sun, look very, very young.

The modern approach to sun protection is a bit weird though. Many of these products contain chemicals that actually react under the skin and can lead to aging and make it easier for skin cancer. Skin cancer weirdly has been booming since the sun awareness increased and products for every day wear were promoted.
I have been researching the sun and skin aging topic a lot and it seems generally just staying in the shade, without products is a good approach. Some sun screens are safer than others but in studies, all types were found to have some downsides. So maybe they should only be used when you can't avoid sun exposure.

Sun of course, also has health benefits, it contributes to healing skin problems even and it helps the body produce much needed Vitamin D.

I also read about Sun in prehistoric times. People then were outside all day. But in many places most of the land was forested (here) it is likely that they spend all day in the shade. That also lead me to learning that certain foods or a lack of certain nutrients make you more vulnerable to the sun. Proteins and good fats were said to increase the skin's ability to protect itself. I actually tested that on myself last year, since I switched to such a diet years ago for health reasons, and after 3 hours in the sun (29 C) I barely started to turn a little red, but not painfully and it was gone the next day. My tolerance has certainly increased.
I also haven't been wearing sun screen 2012 and 2013 and tried very moderate sun exposure and letting my skin's own protection work. With mostly shade I built up an ever so slight tan. Something I would not get at all when I was wearing sun screen all day. Umbrellas really can be a life saver though!

I agree about fats and oil btw. (I use coconut oil for my skin and my diet is rich in good fats).

chen bao jun
May 7th, 2014, 04:33 PM
Interesting about the hormones.
I agree about sunscreen, i wouldn't go near the stuff. (even if I wasn't allergic to most lotions). STaying in the shade, hats etc I think are the right approach.
Here's Queen victoria in 1850. Not a pretty lady, but look at the complexion at age 51 or older (the crown she is wearing was made in 1870 when she was 51)
http://theladyinwaiting.org/2012/08/24/queen-victorias-crown/
here's George Sand at age 60. couple of lines around the mouth, but not too bad. these ladies would not be wearing makeup
Maria Feodorovna with her son as Tsar. she has to be over 50 because when he became tsar, she was.
http://lisawallerrogers.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/maria_fyodorovna_nikolay_ii-1896.jpg
You can amuse yourself googling more famous people of the 19th century, they photographed themselves a lot.

vindo
May 7th, 2014, 06:35 PM
Queen Victoria has very smooth skin!
I found a few more that are interesting:

https://img0.etsystatic.com/027/1/6778127/il_340x270.565685420_9gmv.jpg
She has some fine lines on the forehead and near the eyes but does not look very wrinkly at all. Nothing like the deep wrinkles some aged women have.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/177820239/cdv-photo-old-woman-black-dress-white?ref=market
A bit more, but judging by her neck I think she is fairly old!

http://img1.etsystatic.com/020/1/6778127/il_340x270.503329063_o0q7.jpg
Only fine lines on her forehead but I think overall her face looks really young!

http://nd01.jxs.cz/759/428/42703b2a3b_41047025_o2.jpg
Very clear photo, don't know how old she is though

https://img1.etsystatic.com/035/0/6426484/il_340x270.550830597_5r2t.jpg
She seems to be over 70 or even 80 and what stands out is that despite some wrinkles, her cheeks are still really plump and also her eyes aren't very aged underneath.

I really wonder now. I had a theory that victorian women had killer hair for the reasons I named above, but it makes sense their skin was also better. It is usually clear too.

chen bao jun
May 7th, 2014, 07:39 PM
Yes, it is interesting, isn't it. They don't tend to look attractive to us with the pulled back hairstyles and the no makeup. And of course they have this stare and these unsmiling faces because you had to stay rigid in front of the camera for several minutes (any move made a difference). But when you look at just their skin, the absence of wrinkles compared to nowadays is really very striking. people are definitely not aging normally in most industrialized societies; what we take as 'normal' aging nowadays is actually severely damaged skin and it is preventable.
It's interesting that we here on LHC are so aware of the damage to our hair by mainstream practices and not aware of the damage to skin, which is NOT reversible as hair damage usually is (though you can always prevent more happening and I think people should).
i read your blog by the way emichiee, and it is fascinating. I really admire how you did your own research and took charge of your health and I wnat to learn more about hormones now.

mamaherrera
May 7th, 2014, 11:29 PM
I think it can vary, depending on hair type. My hair is very poufy, so it can appear to be a big thick braid, but it compresses to very small, and it feels very light. My daughter has thick, lots more, straight hair and her braid measures the same, but it is much more thick, heavy, so you can't go by measurements. Mine appears just as thick as hers,but she has about 20% more hairs on her head than me, an estimate.It looks like she only has 15% more than me, because my strands are thicker, but she has way more pores!! you gotta feel those braids, you can't go always by looks. Mine are much more airy!

MINAKO
May 8th, 2014, 01:05 AM
Oh yeah, that picture was on flickr, where most of my images were stolen from. I had to delete the whole account and now regret it because I don't have many of the pictures with me.
My hair has been offered for sale on websites, and often it is used on fake profiles. As well as my face actually. One person even became a moderator of a popular forum with my face...:rolleyes: So even though the watermarks aren't pretty, they are a must nowadays. Of course I can never fully avoid it, but I place them in a way where it is hard to remove them. Not sharing images isn't fun either,order f there is many positives to it when you blog about the things I do. ;)

Protein - there is also a thing like too much protein, which can even lead to hair loss. So loading up on protein isn't always the key, a balance is good. Men can take in more protein than women btw.
12,3 is really thick, that is one inch past ii/iii. Of course there is thicker hair, but I haven't seen many IRL. The thickest I measured was 13cm. The average is 7cm, which is almost half of that :p

Sad that people cant advetise the stuff they actually sell nowadays. But i guess it must have been rip off, where customers weren't recieving anything at all. SO they could use the same trick over and over again. It must be stressful and upsetting to be involved in something like this, but at the end it's also kind of flattering, at least those shady people had good taste in a hair model. :cool:
Unbelievable tho that someone registered in a forum using your photo, or even identity, especcially if it was one that is accessible to anyone. But some people go crazy over the internet. Glad you found a way to protect yourself.

I think i would try to figure out to get the protein intake exactly right if i really felt like i needed it, but i'm not doing any kind of exercise where i would want to gain muskle or burn a hell lot of calories. I'm getting little, but at least the quality of the protein is always in a very healthy range. although when it comes to food, we have to use the word "healthy" more and more carefully
When i started to read into all these hair classification, i would have never thought i would be an iii, of course i have never seen a photo of myself from the back with focus on the poytail, so i just went by what i could eyeball over the shoulder and the feeling of my hair. Even measured with dental floss to get the exect number, but my hair is light. SO at this thickness its still kind of floating around and asking for moisture and some more oil to tame it.

About the Age thing i can say, that the sun does contribute, But also many of the old people these days have been heavy smokers many years in their lives. Personally i think smoking is the worst, because its easy to stay protected from the sun, there is no such thing as tanning addicting, thats just stubbornness and very shortsighted in terms of beauty. I think the victorian women all look younger than they would if they have lived today. But good lighting and certail camera settings also add to the effect. I've recently came across a picture of Francoise Hardy, one of my favorite singers who just turned 70. She still looks amazing on this photo, bu of course it could be digitally corrected in some way. She doesnt seem like the kind of person who would have an interest to hide her age tho. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=122611 Still a beautiful woman.

chen bao jun
May 8th, 2014, 08:29 AM
Yes, poufy hair will make a bigger braid than straighter hair every time. So it's true it not just the look of the braid.
Yes, cigarette smoking and even second hand smoke are terrible for the skin. also, caffeine. Victorian women did not drink coffee all day. And like emichiee said, the chemicals in cosmetics. So its a few things. But the sun is #1. That's why Caucasian women tend to wrinkle the worst, because they are the ones with this habit. As I said, darker skin offers a little more protection from the sun, but anywhere that you find dark people out in the sun a lot, they age badly also. I first realized this reading an article in my dermatologist's office, it showed two photos, one of a buddhist monk aged 80 and one of a Plains Indian woman aged about 60 to illustrate this point. the monk had baby skin, looked so soft. the Plains Indian woman, who was quite dark skinned, and certainly much darker than the monk, looked absolutely dreadful, cracked all over and dreadful from riding around in the sun all day bare headed and bare faced all her life. This article was when it first struck me that my mother and grandmother were really correct and that there is definitely such a thing as sun damage.
You cant trust photos from nowadays of anybody, they automatically photoshop. They don't even ask you, if you go to a professional photographer, you have to ask them to leave it alone if you prefer to see your real self. but though they could manipulate in victorian times it was much harder and not automatic and frankly, a lot of these women could be made to look better if they did. they mostly do not look especially attractive, but you can see their skin is good. You can even see the elasticity is still there. That's another sign of healthy skin, the pinch test, it goes back when you pinch it and feels firm. My mom at over 80 still has skin that does this, not just on her face, all over.

tigereye
May 8th, 2014, 09:37 AM
Think there's definitely more to it than just sunshine. My mum is white, but has a natural "tanned" colour to her skin. She loves the sunshine, and though she stays in at midday in hot countries, avoids burning, and puts on aloe Vera and oil as a moisturiser at the end of the day, her skin has seen a lot of sunshine. However, 60, she still has very few lines - a few fine ones on her forehead, but the most obvious ones being the "laughter lines" near her eyes (they call them laughter lines because you only really see them in people who smile or laugh a lot, due to the lifting motion of the cheeks around the outer eyes and look different to "crows feet") which she probably could have avoided if she had worn sunglasses instead of squinting in the sunlight.
She attributes her young skin to using oil as a moisturiser, avoiding perfume (which is usually drying, even if she didn't have allergies) and avoiding make-up, plus she has oily skin. She never, ever wears foundation, blusher, bronzed, concealer, any of that. It's interesting to me that the most obvious lines she has are around her eyes, and the only make-up she ever wears is mascara, eyeliner and occasionally eyeshadow for special occasions. I notice it myself in those that cake on make-up or fake-tan that their skin is usually awful under all that stuff.

On the other hand, I can see the benefits of a little sunlight. Believe me, people notice blemishes when those blemishes are severe acne that doctors meds barely touch. I get people commenting on them an awful lot more than I would like. I consistently avoid the sunshine because I'm awful in heat and burn exceptionally easily, as well as having issues with some sunscreen. However, when I can't avoid it, and cover up as best as I can, my skin, without fail, clears up massively in a couple of days. Not just hiding the redness and spots (because I don't tan or burn in these cases as I'm mostly covered up) but the redness dies down and spots actually go away and my skin actually gets a rare chance to heal. So in low doses, a little bit of sunlight can be useful.
I think the killer for my skin is probably more likely to be all these doctors putting me on alcohol-based topical treatments (because that and antibiotics are all the GP is allowed to prescribe and a year after referral to the dermatologist to put me on Roaccutane, I've only had an initial consultation then they put me on what seems to be a massive waiting list, long enough that I'm considering going private just to get some treatment) to "dry out the spots". I have dry skin anyway and the irritation of alcohol or (god forbid) benzoyl peroxide tends to make things worse. Then they look at me like I'm a lunatic when I start washing my face once a day (instead of their recommended twice) and putting oil (usually argan because it's moisturising and gentle enough whilst it doesn't clog my pores like coconut) on my face because the moisturisers just can't keep up with the drying effects of the treatments and can irritate my skin more.

Edit: this is an interesting topic, but a bit of a thread hijack. Maybe one of the mods could move the posts to a new thread?

HazelBug
May 8th, 2014, 10:21 AM
My skin is much like yours. It has been dry all my life and quite sensitive . The things prescribed for acne for me only made it worse. I actually found that using creams on my face and exfoliating helped a bit. My skin would dry and peal. The pealing skin would clog my pores. I notice that a little bit of sun actually helps heal my blemishes. My skin feels better during the summer for that reason. A little sun can also kill some bacteria on the skin. I burn easilly so I don't go out for that long. My skin is very light, but I have no interest in trying to tan it. I don't want leather skin or orange skin. I did notice that pregnancy and breastfeeding aged me a little last time. It was very hard to get enough healthy oils in my diet. I tried of course. But there is only so much you can do. I am getting the. beginnings of laugh lines. But laughing is worth it.


Think there's definitely more to it than just sunshine. My mum is white, but has a natural "tanned" colour to her skin. She loves the sunshine, and though she stays in at midday in hot countries, avoids burning, and puts on aloe Vera and oil as a moisturiser at the end of the day, her skin has seen a lot of sunshine. However, 60, she still has very few lines - a few fine ones on her forehead, but the most obvious ones being the "laughter lines" near her eyes (they call them laughter lines because you only really see them in people who smile or laugh a lot, due to the lifting motion of the cheeks around the outer eyes and look different to "crows feet") which she probably could have avoided if she had worn sunglasses instead of squinting in the sunlight.
She attributes her young skin to using oil as a moisturiser, avoiding perfume (which is usually drying, even if she didn't have allergies) and avoiding make-up, plus she has oily skin. She never, ever wears foundation, blusher, bronzed, concealer, any of that. It's interesting to me that the most obvious lines she has are around her eyes, and the only make-up she ever wears is mascara, eyeliner and occasionally eyeshadow for special occasions. I notice it myself in those that cake on make-up or fake-tan that their skin is usually awful under all that stuff.

On the other hand, I can see the benefits of a little sunlight. Believe me, people notice blemishes when those blemishes are severe acne that doctors meds barely touch. I get people commenting on them an awful lot more than I would like. I consistently avoid the sunshine because I'm awful in heat and burn exceptionally easily, as well as having issues with some sunscreen. However, when I can't avoid it, and cover up as best as I can, my skin, without fail, clears up massively in a couple of days. Not just hiding the redness and spots (because I don't tan or burn in these cases as I'm mostly covered up) but the redness dies down and spots actually go away and my skin actually gets a rare chance to heal. So in low doses, a little bit of sunlight can be useful.
I think the killer for my skin is probably more likely to be all these doctors putting me on alcohol-based topical treatments (because that and antibiotics are all the GP is allowed to prescribe and a year after referral to the dermatologist to put me on Roaccutane, I've only had an initial consultation then they put me on what seems to be a massive waiting list, long enough that I'm considering going private just to get some treatment) to "dry out the spots". I have dry skin anyway and the irritation of alcohol or (god forbid) benzoyl peroxide tends to make things worse. Then they look at me like I'm a lunatic when I start washing my face once a day (instead of their recommended twice) and putting oil (usually argan because it's moisturising and gentle enough whilst it doesn't clog my pores like coconut) on my face because the moisturisers just can't keep up with the drying effects of the treatments and can irritate my skin more.

Edit: this is an interesting topic, but a bit of a thread hijack. Maybe one of the mods could move the posts to a new thread?

mamaherrera
May 8th, 2014, 04:39 PM
the lightness or hair, I think has to do with texture. Someone above said they were a 2C, which is what I am, too, and even if my ponytail measures 3.75, it feels so light. But when I lived in humidity (WI) it felt heavier, because the moisture stayed around it and I could never wear it down. But now in NM< my hair dries/curls up and is as light as a feather!

chen bao jun
May 8th, 2014, 06:14 PM
Think there's definitely more to it than just sunshine. My mum is white, but has a natural "tanned" colour to her skin. She loves the sunshine, and though she stays in at midday in hot countries, avoids burning, and puts on aloe Vera and oil as a moisturiser at the end of the day, her skin has seen a lot of sunshine. However, 60, she still has very few lines - a few fine ones on her forehead, but the most obvious ones being the "laughter lines" near her eyes (they call them laughter lines because you only really see them in people who smile or laugh a lot, due to the lifting motion of the cheeks around the outer eyes and look different to "crows feet") which she probably could have avoided if she had worn sunglasses instead of squinting in the sunlight.

I'm sure your mom is lovely. Lines don't necessarily look bad. My point is, I don't have any. I don't have anything on my forehead even when I raise my eyebrows. There is nothing around my eyes. No laugh lines, crows feet, whatever you want to call them, nothing. It is very hard to pinch up skin from my face and what you can pinch up goes right back. I do not have a single line, in daylight, strong light, anytime and I am not wearing makeup covering up (I am allergic to makeup, too). There are no lines on my neck. Seriously. Zero. If I wear a low cut neckline you do not see any wrinkling on my chest. There is nothing anywhere else. I am 57 years old. Where I am from, 57 year olds don't have lines yet. My 82 year old mom barely has any. her skin just looks more soft than mine, if you understand. This is my point.
Maybe the mods will fix the thread jack.

chen bao jun
May 8th, 2014, 06:31 PM
Deleted post

Ingrid
May 8th, 2014, 06:56 PM
I remember watching a documentary which said that "white" people (i.e., people of Anglo-Western ethnicity) tend to have less fatty deposits under their skin layer, unlike people from other ethnicities and races, which means that their skin loses its elasticity quicker, becomes less supple, and thins with age more rapidly, which makes it more prone to wrinkles. :shrug: I think that might be part of the explanation in addition to chemical-filled make-up, excessive sun exposure, and low-fat diet trends.

P.S. chen bao jun (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/member.php?u=49110), you, your sister, and your mother look radiant!!

duchess67
May 8th, 2014, 07:08 PM
chen, your mother looks way younger than 82. You've inherited some good genes, lucky you :)

chen bao jun
May 8th, 2014, 07:16 PM
Thanks for the compliments, Ingrid and Duchess67.I do feel proud of my mom.
I think the documentary was wrong because a) 19th century photographs don't show white people wrinkling any earlier than anyone else b) only white people have the seriously bad habit of suntanning (and also, honestly, drink more coffee than anyone else). c) white people I know who haven't tanned and don't drink coffee look great. I have two very fair-skinned white friends, one blonde, who haven't ever tanned and they are 50 now and wrinkleless too.
If black people and East Asians started lying out in the sun with lotion on for hours on end for years, then it would be a reasonable comparison, but they (we) don't. Not saying that very fair skin doesn't put you more at risk of damage, because I think it does, but I think this can be trumped by good habits, which unfortunately modern ideas of what looks good do not promote.

I remember watching a documentary which said that "white" people (i.e., people of Anglo-Western ethnicity) tend to have less fatty deposits under their skin layer, unlike people from other ethnicities and races, which means that their skin loses its elasticity quicker, becomes less supple, and thins with age more rapidly, which makes it more prone to wrinkles. :shrug: I think that might be part of the explanation in addition to chemical-filled make-up, excessive sun exposure, and low-fat diet trends.

P.S. chen bao jun (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/member.php?u=49110), you, your sister, and your mother look radiant!!

chen bao jun
May 8th, 2014, 07:21 PM
Deleted post.

Sharysa
May 8th, 2014, 07:23 PM
I lost track a bit regarding the original topic, but I personally find my hair easier to wear down because coarse, thick hip-length hair is REALLY heavy when it's compacted.

I really envy people who can wear buns at knee-length without a problem; my scalp is pretty tough, but the weight of my hair was stupidly hard to handle even at midback. :p

tigereye
May 9th, 2014, 12:18 AM
Thanks for the compliments, Ingrid and Duchess67.I do feel proud of my mom.
I think the documentary was wrong because a) 19th century photographs don't show white people wrinkling any earlier than anyone else b) only white people have the seriously bad habit of suntanning (and also, honestly, drink more coffee than anyone else). c) white people I know who haven't tanned and don't drink coffee look great. I have two very fair-skinned white friends, one blonde, who haven't ever tanned and they are 50 now and wrinkleless too.
If black people and East Asians started lying out in the sun with lotion on for hours on end for years, then it would be a reasonable comparison, but they (we) don't. Not saying that very fair skin doesn't put you more at risk of damage, because I think it does, but I think this can be trumped by good habits, which unfortunately modern ideas of what looks good do not promote.

My mum had no wrinkles at 50 either, despite her sun exposure. She has fine ones in her 60s.

I do think there is something in the documentary. I have white friends who live in hot places that are white as snow because they cover up and avoid the sun at all costs (yes, there are plenty of pasty white people who avoid the sun) yet they still get wrinkles in their 50s. If white and black people spent the same time in the sun, I'm pretty sure the white person would come worse off due to the lesser protection from the melanin. I am not at all convinced the sun is the only reason for this difference. I'm pretty sure there are other major factors at play here, like genetics, melanin, hormones etc. Good for you to have good genes, but even with no sunshine some people are still going to get wrinkles. My dad avoids the sun like the plague, yet he had wrinkles in his 30s, way before my mum who loves the sun so much, in part because his acne issue, mostly down to genetics - my mum always had elastic oily skin, but my dad did not even as a child. My grandfathers on one side and grandmother on the other got well into retirement before developing wrinkles, despite being both being farmers out working the land in all weather. My other two grandparents got wrinkles fairly early despite being exposed to the same weather (which was more often windy and cold than anything else). None of them ever went on holiday to a sunny place until they were in their 70s and all had wrinkles anyway.
There's so much less sun up here (30-50% less UV than further south in England) that our lack of sunshine and vitamin D especially in pregnancy and childhood is thought to be factor in major illnesses (not just rickets in childhood, but increased risk of cancer, multiple sclerosis , inflammatory bowel disease and other diseases related to either vitamin D or the immune system). Experts now say it has more of an effect on health in Scotland than alcohol, smoking, poverty and diet. We get so little sun that in the winter, it's estimated that over 90% are vitamin D deficient, and in summer that's still three quarters of us, largely those that dont go to Sunnier climates on holiday. Even in Aberdeen, the sunniest place in Scotland there's still 40% of us with a deficiency. Never mind that vitamin D deficiency is associated with dry/red skin and eyes as a symptom, plus an increase in skin allergies - two things likely to make wrinkles worse. So I think in our case, to little sun may very well be a lot worse than getting a few wrinkles from getting that little bit more. I take vitamin D instead but that's because I become deficient for the vast majority of the year if I don't.

We'll have to agree to disagree because I'm not at all convinced the sun is as much to blame here. There are plenty of white people out there who avoid the sun but still end up getting wrinkles from a young age. Tanning isn't so much a big thing up here because all the white people are so pale from lack of sun anyway.

chen bao jun
May 9th, 2014, 07:11 AM
agree to disagree.
Best to you.
I've said all I have to say and done with threadjacking.:)

Angelica
May 9th, 2014, 07:22 AM
I'm kind of corrupted by all the the hair i've seen on the web and sometimes in person that seems to be far thicker than mine, so i percive my own as medium thickness, although i have like 12cm/4.8inches circumfence. Still, if we are talking about thick, i feel like i'm not quiet there yet compared to anything of this kind. I guess i would like it to be heavy looking as well, not just voluminous.
Found this on flickr:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7169/6493192183_a9a361ab6d_z.jpg


This girl's hair is magnificent. Saw a young girl once with a braid this thick going all the way down to her knees. My dream hair.

vindo
May 9th, 2014, 09:02 PM
Yes, it is interesting, isn't it. They don't tend to look attractive to us with the pulled back hairstyles and the no makeup. And of course they have this stare and these unsmiling faces because you had to stay rigid in front of the camera for several minutes (any move made a difference). But when you look at just their skin, the absence of wrinkles compared to nowadays is really very striking. people are definitely not aging normally in most industrialized societies; what we take as 'normal' aging nowadays is actually severely damaged skin and it is preventable.
It's interesting that we here on LHC are so aware of the damage to our hair by mainstream practices and not aware of the damage to skin, which is NOT reversible as hair damage usually is (though you can always prevent more happening and I think people should).
i read your blog by the way emichiee, and it is fascinating. I really admire how you did your own research and took charge of your health and I wnat to learn more about hormones now.

Thank you! I am very glad I changed so many things, otherwise I would still be diseased, and by now possibly falling apart.
And yes, I agree...we see early wrinkles as normal and it is funny how some longhairs know all about what damages the hair, but not what can actually damage their skin. Most I believe, just really don't know how bad some products and life style habits can be, so I think it is fair to share the info on my blog...and then they can take it or leave it ;)


I remember watching a documentary which said that "white" people (i.e., people of Anglo-Western ethnicity) tend to have less fatty deposits under their skin layer, unlike people from other ethnicities and races, which means that their skin loses its elasticity quicker, becomes less supple, and thins with age more rapidly, which makes it more prone to wrinkles. :shrug: I think that might be part of the explanation in addition to chemical-filled make-up, excessive sun exposure, and low-fat diet trends.

P.S. chen bao jun (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/member.php?u=49110), you, your sister, and your mother look radiant!!

It could also be that light skinned people just have more of a tendency to lose the fatty skin deposits quicker because of different factors. I assume it could be avoided.



We'll have to agree to disagree because I'm not at all convinced the sun is as much to blame here. There are plenty of white people out there who avoid the sun but still end up getting wrinkles from a young age. Tanning isn't so much a big thing up here because all the white people are so pale from lack of sun anyway.

Hi tigereye! Did you read my explanations about the other aging factors. It is true that sun is only one culprit and a bit of sun does not necessarily wrinkle everyone. I mentioned the amount of certain nutrients and proteins in a diet that protect the skin from sun from the inside out, increase tolerance so to say. I have adjusted my diet and tested this for the past two summers actually. My tolerance increased by hours! And I am light skinned.

Certain health conditions or even only tendencies for health conditions (like beginning hypothyroidism) can also make you more sensitive to the sun and age you. The way we are affected by things and how they age us is very complex and there are hundreds of connections...I hope that makes sense. I hope to write a long article about this in the future.

Btw. I just wrote about how digestive issues, especially low stomach acid can age us too (and wreck our health, skin, hair, nails, [insert random body part here]...http://www.longhairedatheart.blogspot.com/



About the Age thing i can say, that the sun does contribute, But also many of the old people these days have been heavy smokers many years in their lives. Personally i think smoking is the worst, because its easy to stay protected from the sun, there is no such thing as tanning addicting, thats just stubbornness and very shortsighted in terms of beauty. I think the victorian women all look younger than they would if they have lived today. But good lighting and certail camera settings also add to the effect. I've recently came across a picture of Francoise Hardy, one of my favorite singers who just turned 70. She still looks amazing on this photo, bu of course it could be digitally corrected in some way. She doesnt seem like the kind of person who would have an interest to hide her age tho. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=122611 Still a beautiful woman.
Smoking is one thing, health, digestion, hormones, lifestyle and fitness, diet, chemicals all round us but especially directly absorbed from cosmetics or ingested in the form of processed foods, sugar overload, carb overload, lack of vitamins, pollution...this whole world is toxic and some may say..."well there is nothing I can do.." but that is wrong. The body can detox fairly well, up to a certain amount. So it really helps to limit toxins wherever possible.
I started with cosmetics for example...that is easy. Eating healthier foods is also possible (though perfect is hard to find of course) etc. :)

chen bao jun
May 9th, 2014, 09:14 PM
Emichiee your posts always fascinate me. I will go off and read your blog now.

tigereye
May 10th, 2014, 01:46 AM
Hi tigereye! Did you read my explanations about the other aging factors. It is true that sun is only one culprit and a bit of sun does not necessarily wrinkle everyone. I mentioned the amount of certain nutrients and proteins in a diet that protect the skin from sun from the inside out, increase tolerance so to say. I have adjusted my diet and tested this for the past two summers actually. My tolerance increased by hours! And I am light skinned.

Certain health conditions or even only tendencies for health conditions (like beginning hypothyroidism) can also make you more sensitive to the sun and age you. The way we are affected by things and how they age us is very complex and there are hundreds of connections...I hope that makes sense. I hope to write a long article about this in the future.

Btw. I just wrote about how digestive issues, especially low stomach acid can age us too (and wreck our health, skin, hair, nails, [insert random body part here]...
I did read your other post. Nutrients and what not certainly make a difference in sun tolerance. My tolerance increases if I eat less of a British diet what I consider to be a more "European" or east-Asian diet (two types of food I love to make - they're healthy and yummy) but not massively. Maybe by about half an hour. It would probably increase more with more sun exposure as my sister has found in France, but I prefer to stay out of the sun. I am very light-skinned and prefer to keep it that way.
I have EDS type III and that affects collagen in the joints, but if can't help wondering if it might affect my skin in some way such as tendency to develop or not to develop wrinkles. (I also wonder if it's something to do with my acne, but that's another story for another time).
I had concerns previously that my hormones might have been out of whack and increasing my acne and reducing my sun tolerance, but my acne wasn't cyclical and my hormone levels were right in the middle of where they should have been. Vitex didn't help then. Now I think the progesterone in my mini pill is making my acne worse, but I can't take a combined pill so we're looking at other options with the doc. I can't take vitex to help even things out while in on the mini-pill.

SongofLove
May 10th, 2014, 03:39 AM
Deleted post

Awww were there some pics? I wanted to see :D

vindo
May 12th, 2014, 08:27 PM
I did read your other post. Nutrients and what not certainly make a difference in sun tolerance. My tolerance increases if I eat less of a British diet what I consider to be a more "European" or east-Asian diet (two types of food I love to make - they're healthy and yummy) but not massively. Maybe by about half an hour. It would probably increase more with more sun exposure as my sister has found in France, but I prefer to stay out of the sun. I am very light-skinned and prefer to keep it that way.
I have EDS type III and that affects collagen in the joints, but if can't help wondering if it might affect my skin in some way such as tendency to develop or not to develop wrinkles. (I also wonder if it's something to do with my acne, but that's another story for another time).
I had concerns previously that my hormones might have been out of whack and increasing my acne and reducing my sun tolerance, but my acne wasn't cyclical and my hormone levels were right in the middle of where they should have been. Vitex didn't help then. Now I think the progesterone in my mini pill is making my acne worse, but I can't take a combined pill so we're looking at other options with the doc. I can't take vitex to help even things out while in on the mini-pill.

To quickly answer your question: Yes, acne causes inflammation and breaks down the collagen, it can also dry out the skin as well as an acne skin care regime. I had pretty bad acne last summer and figured out it was related to yeast! It is very common and has to do with a layer of dry skin that the yeast forms. It is worth a read because it is also very common and not very known of. The quick fix is anti fungal cream and for many improving digestion will help to keep it away on the long run :):blossom:

You should still be able to take DIM and Calcium D Glucarate on the pill. But in case the pill is contributing to problems it is possibly better to be without it. Progesterone is usually good in clearing up skin, but estrogens in the pill can lead to an estrogen dominance, which in turn lowers natural progesterone production and raises androgens. The result would be hormonal acne.

I believe your illness could affect the way you age. But as with most things, it is only a possibility. There are many people with illnesses out there that don't have all of the possible side effects. It really depends what part of your body is most affected.


Emichiee your posts always fascinate me. I will go off and read your blog now.
:cloud9: :writer:

tigereye
May 13th, 2014, 01:14 AM
You should still be able to take DIM and Calcium D Glucarate on the pill. But in case the pill is contributing to problems it is possibly better to be without it. Progesterone is usually good in clearing up skin, but estrogens in the pill can lead to an estrogen dominance, which in turn lowers natural progesterone production and raises androgens. The result would be hormonal acne.

I believe your illness could affect the way you age. But as with most things, it is only a possibility. There are many people with illnesses out there that don't have all of the possible side effects. It really depends what part of your body is most affected.


:cloud9: :writer:
thanks. :flower: I will look into those. I think if anything, it may be the other way around for me - progesterone dominance - on the combined pill (oestrogen and progesterone) my skin improved hugely with help from other acne meds, but went back to how it was before when I had to change to the mini-pill (progesterone only). My doc warned me that might happen with progesterone-only since it had improved on the combined pill, but I couldn't stay on the combined pill because of increasing migraines and a family history of blood clots (including my twin brother who had a stroke at 18 ). What is annoying is that I don't actually need birth control right now, but I have to be on it with the dermatologist thinking about Accutane. They won't prescribe it without birth control, no matter whether you actually need it or not, so we're looking at IUDs instead - probably a copper one so my hormones go back to normal.
I want to at least try Accutane. I've had severe acne for 8-9 years and feel like I've tried everything else now, from plain old leaving it alone, to diet, to herbal supplements, to every acne treatment in the book (honestly: I had a look at the BNF recently for drug prescribing, and the only thing in the whole acne section I have not already tried at some point is accutane and a hormonal treatment which I can't use because of the blood clot risk). I'm very lucky my skin is elastic enough that I only have a few scars - by rights I should have a lot more.

I love reading your posts too. They're so interesting :)

vindo
May 14th, 2014, 11:19 AM
thanks. :flower: I will look into those. I think if anything, it may be the other way around for me - progesterone dominance - on the combined pill (oestrogen and progesterone) my skin improved hugely with help from other acne meds, but went back to how it was before when I had to change to the mini-pill (progesterone only). My doc warned me that might happen with progesterone-only since it had improved on the combined pill, but I couldn't stay on the combined pill because of increasing migraines and a family history of blood clots (including my twin brother who had a stroke at 18 ). What is annoying is that I don't actually need birth control right now, but I have to be on it with the dermatologist thinking about Accutane. They won't prescribe it without birth control, no matter whether you actually need it or not, so we're looking at IUDs instead - probably a copper one so my hormones go back to normal.
I want to at least try Accutane. I've had severe acne for 8-9 years and feel like I've tried everything else now, from plain old leaving it alone, to diet, to herbal supplements, to every acne treatment in the book (honestly: I had a look at the BNF recently for drug prescribing, and the only thing in the whole acne section I have not already tried at some point is accutane and a hormonal treatment which I can't use because of the blood clot risk). I'm very lucky my skin is elastic enough that I only have a few scars - by rights I should have a lot more.

I love reading your posts too. They're so interesting :)

Thank you! :)

'm sorry to hear you have been dealing with acne for so long! I only had problems for a short amount of time, but it was horrible! At some point it wasn't even possible covering up anymore...it just looked to bumpy and flaky :(.

Acne can have many reasons, but there is so much that can be done to improve it. Imho, many conventional "acne treatments" are useless, because they only treat the symptoms, but not the root of the problem.
For example: I would see some tiny bettering with peelings, but that won't help on the long run if the problem comes from within.

Acne is almost always caused from within. No matter how much dermatologists will tell you to avoid all sort of bacteria, dirty pillows, wash often etc. From the outside you can do minor damage with Make Up, but bad acne is caused by something bigger.

The main culprits are: Food intolerances, digestive problems (leading to candida), hormones. These three can lead to other problems, which lead to even more problems that will affect a function in your body in a way to create acne.
Acne cause by candida starts with things like 1. eating a sub-optimal diet, stress, bad lifestyle, sleep...anything that makes the body vulnerable -> 2. Then add lots and lots of sugar and carbs from a modern diet, much more than we are naturally supposed to eat, candida loves sugar -> 3. Add something like hormonal balances into this, now the candida is feeding on sugar and your body is vulnerable due to your hormones. Hormones can affect your digestion and when your digestion isn't working right certain bacteria won't get killed off -> 4. Candida is growing and already changed your whole digestive climate, you will be unable to properly digest and absorb nutrients, resulting into toxins that can cause acne as well (on top of all else!) -> 5. If the toxins haven't caused much acne yet, the next thing will...Candida growing all over your body, think bumpy "dry" skin that can appear anywhere, a layer of candida which can be mistaken for dry, scaly skin will keep your skin from detoxing, the pores won't be able to push out the sebum anymore and it gets trapped, this can result into really bad acne...like I mentioned before, candida also ages and breaks down the skin's collagen -> 6. Candida and hormones also affect each other...meaning candida promotes hormonal imbalances and hormonal imbalances make it easier for candida...it is a cycle really -> 7. Once candida is bad, it can affect so many functions of your body it isn't even funny...

Sorry that was kind of long, but I'm thinking maybe you have a problem with at least one of these too. At least it is very likely. If you want you could try getting rid of your acne naturally one more time. I'd be happy to guide you and answer questions.

Accutane is very, very bad. It is commonly know that it damages the liver, but the acne also comes back even worse. It can also cause hair loss and for many it lingers for years after Accutane. I have read of many victims on Acne and Hair loss boards. I would hope you could find another solution.

Do you have any of these problems?: PMS, brain fog, depression or mood swings, sleepiness, fatigue, dry skin, flaky skin, dandruff, does your skin look "thin" (this can mean like paper, or some kind of collagen loss, this can be improved btw), dark under eye circles, hair loss or increased shedding, hair prone to splits, Headaches (which you said you have).
There is more, but I'm rushing a bit right now because my son is getting impatient, sorry ;).

Progesterone dominance usually has different symptoms, but it is of course also possible. Especially after taking the pill. I found an interesting read about it and the supplements I took:
http://www.brightbodyfitness.com/estrogen-dominance-perimenopause-t-tapp-oh-my/

DIM and also Calcium D Glucarate support a healthy estrogen metabolism, so excess progesterone should also be solved :) They also counteract hormonal acne, my skin improved on them, but it wasn't perfect until I treated it with anti fungal cream for the yeast problem. That actually cleared me up within two weeks! :eek:
Pictures or it didn't happen: http://longhairedatheart.blogspot.de/2013/11/yeast-had-caused-my-bad-skin.html

chen bao jun
May 14th, 2014, 01:55 PM
Yes, I put some pics of me, my mother and sis up but I didn't keep them up very long (maybe half an hours) due to worries about privacy.

Awww were there some pics? I wanted to see :D

tigereye
May 14th, 2014, 02:32 PM
Thank you! :)

'm sorry to hear you have been dealing with acne for so long! I only had problems for a short amount of time, but it was horrible! At some point it wasn't even possible covering up anymore...it just looked to bumpy and flaky :(.

Acne can have many reasons, but there is so much that can be done to improve it. Imho, many conventional "acne treatments" are useless, because they only treat the symptoms, but not the root of the problem.
For example: I would see some tiny bettering with peelings, but that won't help on the long run if the problem comes from within.

Acne is almost always caused from within. No matter how much dermatologists will tell you to avoid all sort of bacteria, dirty pillows, wash often etc. From the outside you can do minor damage with Make Up, but bad acne is caused by something bigger.

The main culprits are: Food intolerances, digestive problems (leading to candida), hormones. These three can lead to other problems, which lead to even more problems that will affect a function in your body in a way to create acne.
Acne cause by candida starts with things like 1. eating a sub-optimal diet, stress, bad lifestyle, sleep...anything that makes the body vulnerable -> 2. Then add lots and lots of sugar and carbs from a modern diet, much more than we are naturally supposed to eat, candida loves sugar -> 3. Add something like hormonal balances into this, now the candida is feeding on sugar and your body is vulnerable due to your hormones. Hormones can affect your digestion and when your digestion isn't working right certain bacteria won't get killed off -> 4. Candida is growing and already changed your whole digestive climate, you will be unable to properly digest and absorb nutrients, resulting into toxins that can cause acne as well (on top of all else!) -> 5. If the toxins haven't caused much acne yet, the next thing will...Candida growing all over your body, think bumpy "dry" skin that can appear anywhere, a layer of candida which can be mistaken for dry, scaly skin will keep your skin from detoxing, the pores won't be able to push out the sebum anymore and it gets trapped, this can result into really bad acne...like I mentioned before, candida also ages and breaks down the skin's collagen -> 6. Candida and hormones also affect each other...meaning candida promotes hormonal imbalances and hormonal imbalances make it easier for candida...it is a cycle really -> 7. Once candida is bad, it can affect so many functions of your body it isn't even funny...

Sorry that was kind of long, but I'm thinking maybe you have a problem with at least one of these too. At least it is very likely. If you want you could try getting rid of your acne naturally one more time. I'd be happy to guide you and answer questions.

Accutane is very, very bad. It is commonly know that it damages the liver, but the acne also comes back even worse. It can also cause hair loss and for many it lingers for years after Accutane. I have read of many victims on Acne and Hair loss boards. I would hope you could find another solution.

Do you have any of these problems?: PMS, brain fog, depression or mood swings, sleepiness, fatigue, dry skin, flaky skin, dandruff, does your skin look "thin" (this can mean like paper, or some kind of collagen loss, this can be improved btw), dark under eye circles, hair loss or increased shedding, hair prone to splits, Headaches (which you said you have).
There is more, but I'm rushing a bit right now because my son is getting impatient, sorry ;).

Progesterone dominance usually has different symptoms, but it is of course also possible. Especially after taking the pill. I found an interesting read about it and the supplements I took:
http://www.brightbodyfitness.com/estrogen-dominance-perimenopause-t-tapp-oh-my/

DIM and also Calcium D Glucarate support a healthy estrogen metabolism, so excess progesterone should also be solved :) They also counteract hormonal acne, my skin improved on them, but it wasn't perfect until I treated it with anti fungal cream for the yeast problem. That actually cleared me up within two weeks! :eek:
Pictures or it didn't happen: http://longhairedatheart.blogspot.de/2013/11/yeast-had-caused-my-bad-skin.html

I would love to try one more time to get rid of acne without all these meds. Would you mind PM-ing me? I know, because I'm doing a pharmacology degree, that Accutane is awful for the liver, though Ive been rather at my wits end. As it is, with work abroad and on boats in the south of Europe over summer, I've been thinking about stopping the topical stuff I've been on because it's photo sensitising. Even though I cover up from the sun and wear hats on boats, the reflection on the water effectively doubles the UV bouncing back to my nose and chin, which are the worst acne areas too. I don't want my skin to be any more sensitive to the sun than it already is. I stopped taking Benzoyl peroxide already because it made my skin so awful anyway.
In terms of food intolerances, I don't know. I've been waiting for allergy tests because I can't figure out what's giving me rashes, that has more recently evolved into dermatogrhic urticaria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermatographic_urticaria), only that it is very obviously an allergy as it isn't chronic, and just appears occasionally, almost never in my own house, and will die down quickly. If I do have an episode (like last night at the gym) the slightest pressure will give me hives.
I know I'm allergic to pine kernels, most perfumes, nickel, SLS, and cultivated juniper. My mum is the same but without the nickel, not as bad for SLS and worse for the rest. My dad doesn't have allergies as such, but has food intolerances to prawns/shellfish, and red peppers (he only found out when he was in his 50s and his acne has long since gone though). My cousin has can't have ginseng or she spends all night in the bathroom.

My mum stopped drinking milk in her early 50s when she started getting candida. As long as she drinks alternatives, the candida goes away. I stopped drinking milk/eating dairy to see if it made a difference (since dairy is often blamed for acne), but I didn't see or feel any.

Out of your list, I do have dry skin. The headaches/migraines I never had before the combined pill, and they disappeared entirely when they switched me to progesterone-only. On the other hand, I get occasional dizziness. The type of dizziness I used to get in the low after a caffeine high, just without the caffeine (which I don't drink because of the aforementioned dizzy-lows) or even sugar beforehand. I was conveniently a test subject for a lab recently and my blood sugar was fine, even in a conveniently-timed dizzy spell. It actually didn't rise as much as expected when they stuck me on the treadmill (both the professional weight-lifter and normal students shot up by at least twice what mine did) to which the lecturer said must mean I don't eat much sugar and eat complex carbs instead (I was like "Um. If you say so." :S that seemed weird and kind of off to me. Sure I eat porridge for breakfast and brown rice with dinner most days, but I like a treat as much as any woman). It doesn't happen often, but it's a recent thing too, since starting the pill.
My hair shed like absolute crazy for the first 4 months (I've now been on it 6-7months) on the progesterone-only pill. It's only just growing back in time for me to hit the time of year I normally shed more anyway. I do get fatigue too since I started.

Can the progesterone-only pill cause oestrogen dominance? Since they're not quite the same as the hormones we produce in our body...