Another coconut oil question

[Arwenlily]

As some of you may or may not know, I've been having difficulties figuring out a good routine for my hair. Well, I stuck to a routine of using this shampoo (http://www.ecosevi.com/collections/wash/products/pumpkin-seed-shampoo) followed by a pretty strong ACV rinse (has been making my hair soft and smooth) followed by coconut oil almost daily on my ends for about a month so far. My hair has been almost completely frizz free, soft, and silky but surprisingly less curly than usual. Also my hair seems to be significantly thinner on the ends so 2 days ago I did a very small trim. But I want to know what the reason for this is.

Is it possible that I'm using too much coconut oil and that is causing my hair to be too soft and break?
I never used to comb my hair, only finger-comb, could that be causing problems? (I have been occasionally combing my hair with a wide-tooth comb)
Is my hair possibly over-conditioned from my routine even though I never use conditioner?

[Arwenlily]

Any help would be appreciated :agree:

[meteor]

Yes of course it's possible to use too much coconut oil. Lots of coconut oil related threads here are about having over-oiled hair.

Your shampoo sounds very mild judging by the list of ingredients: Aloe Vera Leaf Juice, Infusions of *Nettle, *Yucca, *Marshmallow Root, *Burdock Root, *Rosemary, *Horsetail and *Flaxseed, Decyl Glucoside, *Pumpkin Seed Oil, *Avocado Oil, *Babassu Oil, Guar Hyroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, *Sage Extract, *(f)Nilotica Shea Butter, *Sea Buckthorn Berry CO2, Pure Essential Oils (*Patchouli, *Cedarwood, *Lavender, *Rosemary **Myrrh), Gluconolactone, Sodium Benzoate.

I used a similar shampoo in the past and it was mega-gentle on my hair, so oiling was unnecessary. I don't use more than a few drops of oil, normally. And I wouldn't oil every day either. But your hair is curly, and many curlies use a lot more oil than straighties/wavies.
If your hair felt better before the oil, then use less or no oil. Another option is to counteract the softening action of oil with hydrolyzed protein treatments and panthenol (they are also mild humectants).

[Arwenlily]

Yes of course it's possible to use too much coconut oil. Lots of coconut oil related threads here are about having over-oiled hair.

Your shampoo sounds very mild judging by the list of ingredients: Aloe Vera Leaf Juice, Infusions of *Nettle, *Yucca, *Marshmallow Root, *Burdock Root, *Rosemary, *Horsetail and *Flaxseed, Decyl Glucoside, *Pumpkin Seed Oil, *Avocado Oil, *Babassu Oil, Guar Hyroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, *Sage Extract, *(f)Nilotica Shea Butter, *Sea Buckthorn Berry CO2, Pure Essential Oils (*Patchouli, *Cedarwood, *Lavender, *Rosemary **Myrrh), Gluconolactone, Sodium Benzoate.

I used a similar shampoo in the past and it was mega-gentle on my hair, so oiling was unnecessary. I don't use more than a few drops of oil, normally. And I wouldn't oil every day either. But your hair is curly, and many curlies use a lot more oil than straighties/wavies.
If your hair felt better before the oil, then use less or no oil. Another option is to counteract the softening action of oil with hydrolyzed protein treatments and panthenol (they are also mild humectants).

Yeah I guess I may not have to use the oil at all. I think I just gravitate towards using it because I hear so many good things about coconut oil and I love the smell of it. But I may not have to use it seems. And also maybe I can try the hydrolyzed protein treatment. Should I clarify before doing that?

[Nope]

Have you noticed more shedding? Thin ends are often due to shedding. If you oil your scalp, stop, and see if it makes a difference in your thickness/shedding. Also, it's possible that your hair is just weighed down or stringy, and not actuall thin. I know that if I condition my hair too heavily too many times in a row, it starts to look really flat and thin, but as soon as I clarify it's bouncy and puffs right back up. Which reminds me, try clarifying. Hope I helped :P

[Arwenlily]

Have you noticed more shedding? Thin ends are often due to shedding. If you oil your scalp, stop, and see if it makes a difference in your thickness/shedding. Also, it's possible that your hair is just weighed down or stringy, and not actuall thin. I know that if I condition my hair too heavily too many times in a row, it starts to look really flat and thin, but as soon as I clarify it's bouncy and puffs right back up. Which reminds me, try clarifying. Hope I helped :P

Yes I have noticed more shedding :( But I feel like the shedding is happening because my hair is too soft. I don't oil my scalp so that wouldn't be a problem but thanks for the suggestion. I will try to clarify, I'm sure that will help. Thanks so much!

[Arwenlily]

Also, I just wonder if it is from shedding. Why am I shedding so much?

[meteor]

And also maybe I can try the hydrolyzed protein treatment. Should I clarify before doing that?
Depends on how your hair feels. If hair feels coated, stiff, dull and not supple, I'd clarify first. Also, do protein treatments only if you know your hair responds well to them, and always start small.

[meteor]

Also, I just wonder if it is from shedding. Why am I shedding so much?

Shedding could be due to many things. If it's really abnormal for you, you should talk to your doctor.

Shedding more during application of oil and oil massages is totally normal though.

[Arwenlily]

meteor My hair maybe feels a little coated but it is not dull or stiff. And I'm little hesitant about protein treatments because every time I've tried them my hair has always felt really coated and sticky. Maybe I did it wrong?

and about the shedding, I've been using a lot of oil lately so maybe that is why? Why does shedding occur from oil?

[meteor]

meteor My hair maybe feels a little coated but it is not dull or stiff. And I'm little hesitant about protein treatments because every time I've tried them my hair has always felt really coated and sticky. Maybe I did it wrong?
Yes, not everybody's hair likes protein. Also, different hydrolyzed proteins have different sizes and will penetrate hair (if small enough) or coat it (if too large). The more porous/damaged hair is, the bigger and more hydrolyzed proteins penetrate. Smaller proteins like amino acids, silk and keratin seem to work on more hair types. Amino acids are so small that they penetrate hair easily but they can leave it easily too.

Here's a link on different proteins and their sizes: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2011/08/mysteries-of-hydrolyzed-proteins.html
And this is a great post on how, when and who can use proteins: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2013/09/more-about-protein.html


and about the shedding, I've been using a lot of oil lately so maybe that is why? Why does shedding occur from oil?
Yep, I know it happens but I don't know why, I've never seen any research into this. Practitioners of Ayurveda claim that oil massages stimulate weak hair, which was about to fall anyway, to fall faster. Hair is supposed to grow in thicker and stronger though. After a few oil massages the shedding does slow down dramatically, in my own experience.
I think it's similar to what happens to some people who practice CO. I guess massaging something slippery on scalp can lead to this.

[Henwyn]

Not that I'm an expert, but I noticed that the same blog (science-yhairblog) classified Guar Hyroxypropyltrimonium Chloride as an ingredient with moderate to high build-up potential. So you might want to clarify and try a different shampoo in your routine.

[meteor]

Arwenlily, is there any reason why you never use conditioner? I mean, it's totally up to you, but never using conditioner is not something that's recommended for curlies, primarily because of porosity and because the ends don't get enough sebum from scalp due to the curl pattern. Curlies tend to need significantly more conditioner than other hair types.
Have you tried the Curly Girl method?

[Arwenlily]

Henwyn Oohh I didn't know that. That would explain a lot ...
meteor I stopped using conditioner because my hair was getting over-conditioned every time I used it. I tried the Curly Girl Method, and it was awful for my hair and I can't even use the LOC method. I don't know why ... Maybe I'm not a true curly?

[ErinLeigh]

There is oil in the shampoo so the coconut alone may not be causing the issue. But maybe the combination is too much oil for your specific routine? I guess you leave the coconut out of routine for a few weeks and see if anything changes?
A good clarify as needed would also be helpful as the oils can build up over time. Some of the other ingredients such as the shea will also. This could be why your curls are falling. If you were clarifying maybe the coconut wouldn't be issue. Just never know until you play around with it a little bit.

As far as hydrolyzed protein treatments? Maybe that can be just as simple as deep conditioning with a conditioner that contains that ingredient once a month. This way your hair isn't over conditioned but is getting some moisture and protein once a month?
I would suspect as a curly this could also rejuvenate the curls. Hair may need both.

[Rosa Harris]

On oil, massaging and hair fall.

Oil on the scalp by itself without massaging will soften the skin cells around the hair shaft. Hair that is about to fall may hang in the skin for some time - days to even months after it stops growing and is pushed up close to the surface. The softening of the skin around it makes it easier for the hair to slip out but no big deal as you are already growing new growth underneath it. Massaging makes tiny pulls on the hair shaft speeding the process even more and helping cleanse the scalp of the hairs about to fall - the dead hairs. So you see more fall at first since there is a buildup of them before you start massaging regular with oils.

Now you mention you think some shedding is from it being soft? that would be actual breakage not fall from the root. Oil will not make growing hair that is not ready to fall come out. To tell look at the ends of the hair and see if there is a tiny white bulb on the hair which is the hair root. Broken hair will not have this. If you have these bulbs you are fine.