PDA

View Full Version : Long hair is communism



Michiru
April 1st, 2014, 10:05 PM
Too funny
​http://hughlane.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/644727_588471221172532_1263050164_n.jpg

RainbowBowser
April 1st, 2014, 10:17 PM
Lol! This is so silly, its ironic because by having everyone conform to the set style of short hair, you're not far off from communism itself.
And here, we see communism dictating hair.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2589842/Trim-wrong-one-Kim-Jong-Un-forces-male-students-hairstyle-known-Dear-Leader-haircut.html

MadeiraD
April 1st, 2014, 11:29 PM
Heh hubby and I both have long hair an both are pretty hard left in our sympathies. It just seems to me a system where already having money allows you to make more money is kind of.. Rigged. North Korea although it takes it's inspiration from Stalinist regimens is closer to Facism than true communism. Why is it when anyone says communist everyone always thinks Stalinist, never trot, or Marxist-Leninist. *far leftist grumble mutter* we're nice people

RainbowBowser
April 2nd, 2014, 01:53 AM
Heh hubby and I both have long hair an both are pretty hard left in our sympathies. It just seems to me a system where already having money allows you to make more money is kind of.. Rigged. North Korea although it takes it's inspiration from Stalinist regimens is closer to Facism than true communism. Why is it when anyone says communist everyone always thinks Stalinist, never trot, or Marxist-Leninist. *far leftist grumble mutter* we're nice people
I actually agree with you and lean towards the left myself. The article was mainly to point out that their idea of communism does what they're doing sort of thing.

chen bao jun
April 2nd, 2014, 06:38 AM
I 'm pretty sure we are not supposed to discuss politics.
Long hair isn't communist, short hair isn't communist, the people with the sign are silly but leaning or sympathizing with the hard left shows lack of knowledge of the facts. Marx was never in power anywhere but Lenin was a mass murderer on a tremendous scale, making a distinction between Lenin and Stalin is artificial. I don't judge philosophies by how good they look in theory but by their results. After a century of communist regimes you can't name a single one that didn't end with genocide, prison camps, extreme poverty and privation for the mass of people with an elite that lives in luxury and thought control. Not a good record.
Capitalism has issues but the Steve Jobs of this world not only managed to make money but to create jobs for others. Wealth redistribution only leads to the people who have the money leaving (if possible, that's why communist regimes have to make the whole country a prison that you can't leave), and no one having any initiative to start businesses or even to farm so that people in the country can actually eat. No one will work if you take all incentive away. Please research this some more--it doesn't work as in Marx's imagination, and Lenin (and Trotsky also) were terrible human beings.

Aderyn
April 2nd, 2014, 02:40 PM
Interesting how long hair is viewed as communist. If anything, I'd think long hair would be associated with being religious/more conservative as people, in my experience, tend to think that way more often than not. It's nice to see such a wide variety of people deciding to grow their hair out, though.


Heh hubby and I both have long hair an both are pretty hard left in our sympathies. It just seems to me a system where already having money allows you to make more money is kind of.. Rigged. North Korea although it takes it's inspiration from Stalinist regimens is closer to Facism than true communism. Why is it when anyone says communist everyone always thinks Stalinist, never trot, or Marxist-Leninist. *far leftist grumble mutter* we're nice people

It's easy to get taken in by merely the labels our culture has decided to give these ideas, but, in my opinion, it's much more important to see the actual ideals are being implented and the "logic" used behind them. Especially when people take the same flawed ideals and logic to justify their stance on things in the present time.

Beatnik Guy
April 2nd, 2014, 02:53 PM
Hilarious. :rollin:

Synnovea
April 2nd, 2014, 06:47 PM
Oh, McCarthyism. Anti-communist propaganda at it's best--although some seem to cling to it still, it seems.

Wisteria
April 2nd, 2014, 08:20 PM
Lol! This is so silly, its ironic because by having everyone conform to the set style of short hair, you're not far off from communism itself. And here, we see communism dictating hair. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2589842/Trim-wrong-one-Kim-Jong-Un-forces-male-students-hairstyle-known-Dear-Leader-haircut.html Wow, that's almost the complete opposite situation. My little sister was just here, likes to peek at me on this forum, she saw this and asked me what it was. I told her that everyone in N. Korea had to get this cut. She started freaking out, she asked me if "even the girls had to get this." I told her no, that only the guys had to get it. Bad phrasing on my part. :D

Night_Kitten
April 4th, 2014, 05:55 AM
As someone who lived in the USSR for the first 8 years of her life, and knows how things actually were, the notion of "long hair = communism" sounds SO ridiculous and funny to me...
Men were practically forced to have short hair, anyone with longer hair risked being beaten, arrested and even jailed for several years just for "having anti-communist attitude"... Same went for wearing Jeans, listening to certain music and other "western behaviors"... :run: Women could have long hair without being "picked on" (actually women with hair shorter than shoulder were treated the same as men with longer hair and accused of "western values") but not many had hair past APL-BSL as there was practically a vacuum as far as "luxury" products were concerned (I never even knew conditioners and leave-ins existed until we managed to migrate from the USSR)... :shrug:

To the OP - I think that picture is hilarious, to see people actually believed that makes me laugh :rollin:



...
After a century of communist regimes you can't name a single one that didn't end with genocide, prison camps, extreme poverty and privation for the mass of people with an elite that lives in luxury and thought control. Not a good record.
...

Couldn't agree with you more. To me the word "Communism" has HORRIBLE connotations :scared: :puke:

~Abi~
April 4th, 2014, 07:43 AM
Politically I'm somewhere between conservative and libertarian, most definitely not communist, and I can't wait to get my hair to hip length.

And I'm just going to quietly second what chen bao jun said.

walterSCAN
April 4th, 2014, 08:25 AM
Politically I'm somewhere between conservative and libertarian, most definitely not communist, and I can't wait to get my hair to hip length.

And I'm just going to quietly second what chen bao jun said.

Yep, libertarian here with commie long hair! :silly:

AmyBeth
April 4th, 2014, 11:28 AM
We're not supposed to talk politics...but we talk about it anyway. So while I don't consider myself a communist, I don't see how giving the already wealthy more tax breaks, while removing any kind of help to the less fortunate helps anyone. If that makes me a socialist, so be it.

YamaMaya
April 4th, 2014, 01:37 PM
Funny since the women in that picture seem to be wearing updos, and updos = long hair :p

getoffmyskittle
April 4th, 2014, 08:19 PM
This is Photoshopped. The original photograph says "Race mixing is communism."

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/10/10/race-mixing-is-communism/

Beatnik Guy
April 5th, 2014, 02:21 AM
Bah. Does that mean you are communism, skitts?

getoffmyskittle
April 5th, 2014, 08:40 AM
Bah. Does that mean you are communism, skitts?

Well, clearly. ;)

truepeacenik
April 5th, 2014, 10:08 AM
Remember that even the mock of the original photo is aimed at males.

Subservient wimminfolk are supposed to have long hair because the bible says so, and the dichotomy in America was church/Communist theory. Especially the Catholic Church,which supported fascist governments over communist.

chen bao jun
April 5th, 2014, 12:40 PM
Okay, time to stop discussing politics and just simply make fun of people with southern accents who believe in God and the Bible and that always safe target, the Catholic church.
Even though someone just showed that the original photo was shopped.

Beatnik Guy
April 5th, 2014, 03:07 PM
Remember that even the mock of the original photo is aimed at males.

Subservient wimminfolk are supposed to have long hair because the bible says so, and the dichotomy in America was church/Communist theory. Especially the Catholic Church,which supported fascist governments over communist.

Yup, yup. Catholic Church does not have a good history.

chen bao jun
April 5th, 2014, 06:52 PM
Does it not? Proof, please.
It is most certainly NOT Catholics who are protesting integration (not long hair) in the OP's picture, so I don't even know where the Catholic Church comes into this.
Except of course that it's always safe to bash Catholics.

Yup, yup. Catholic Church does not have a good history.

getoffmyskittle
April 5th, 2014, 09:49 PM
I agree with chen bao jun that it seems a little unfair to criticize the Catholic Church for this one. The photo is from a protest in Little Rock, and it's actually not about 'miscegenation' (meaning I wouldn't be communism :p), it's about integration. I believe the official stance of the church was pro-integration, even in the south.

Danu
April 5th, 2014, 10:46 PM
@}-`-}-,-'- príobháideach -'-,-{-`-{@

truepeacenik
April 5th, 2014, 10:48 PM
Okay, time to stop discussing politics and just simply make fun of people with southern accents who believe in God and the Bible and that always safe target, the Catholic church.
Even though someone just showed that the original photo was shopped.

Wimminfolk is also in use in the American West. That's where I have always heard it, and there's a very different church holding sway in the Land of Deseret.
(Read my location)

truepeacenik
April 5th, 2014, 10:50 PM
Does it not? Proof, please.
It is most certainly NOT Catholics who are protesting integration (not long hair) in the OP's picture, so I don't even know where the Catholic Church comes into this.
Except of course that it's always safe to bash Catholics.


Torquemada comes immediately to mind.

furnival
April 6th, 2014, 01:23 AM
Wimminfolk is also in use in the American West.
And Yorkshire ;)

furnival
April 6th, 2014, 01:52 AM
Does it not? Proof, please.
Well, two of the most recent horrors in the history of the Catholic Church are the Magdalen Laundries:
"Ireland’s Magdalen laundries were quietly supported by the state, operated by the church, and Smith asserts that they were directly responsible for what he calls the enslavement of at least 30,000 innocent women and girls for more than two hundred years." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_asylum

And the worldwide child sex abuse cover-up, proved by the discovery of a secret document from the Vatican archive that was sent to every bishop in the world instructing them to cover up cases of abuse on pain of excommunication:
'We always suspected that the Catholic Church systematically covered up abuse and tried to silence victims. This document appears to prove it. Threatening excommunication to anybody who speaks out shows the lengths the most senior figures in the Vatican were prepared to go to prevent the information getting out to the public domain.'
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/17/religion.childprotection

Beatnik Guy
April 6th, 2014, 02:03 AM
We'll, there is the Spanish Inquisition, the role of the Catholic Church in Nazi Germany and throughout Central Europe (eg Croatia), support for South American and other far right dictators -- and, yes, clerical sexual abuse and murky financial dealings. That said, it's true that those folks in Little Rock may not be Catholics. :)

Scarlet_Heart
April 6th, 2014, 07:59 AM
No one is saying the Catholic church is completely infallible or innocent. I don't think that was Chen Bao Jun's point. The point is that's it's absolutely not ok to make fun of or point out the problems with any religion... except for Christians. One could easily point to Islam and note that a lot of pretty nasty things have been done in the name of that religion. But that's intolerant, right? The thing is, that any organized religion is susceptible to corruption or bad deeds because they are comprised of people and people are both good and bad. Religion isn't God. Religion is people. There are good and bad people in every religion and every political group for that matter. You really can't tell me that one is better than the other. But you certainly can't mock and patronize some and then vehemently protect others, making them beyond reproach. It doesn't make sense. I think the idea of the "tyranny of the majority" has really taken a reverse course in the last decade or so.

Lady Mary
April 6th, 2014, 08:11 AM
Well, two of the most recent horrors in the history of the Catholic Church are the Magdalen Laundries:
"Ireland’s Magdalen laundries were quietly supported by the state, operated by the church, and Smith asserts that they were directly responsible for what he calls the enslavement of at least 30,000 innocent women and girls for more than two hundred years." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_asylum

And the worldwide child sex abuse cover-up, proved by the discovery of a secret document from the Vatican archive that was sent to every bishop in the world instructing them to cover up cases of abuse on pain of excommunication:
'We always suspected that the Catholic Church systematically covered up abuse and tried to silence victims. This document appears to prove it. Threatening excommunication to anybody who speaks out shows the lengths the most senior figures in the Vatican were prepared to go to prevent the information getting out to the public domain.'
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/17/religion.childprotection

Oh my gosh, I hadn't even heard of the Magdalene asylums... Thank you for sharing the link. How sad :(

furnival
April 6th, 2014, 08:47 AM
I don't think that was Chen Bao Jun's point. The point is that's it's absolutely not ok to make fun of or point out the problems with any religion... except for Christians.
I don't think it's true that it's not ok to point out problems with any religion except Christianity. I don't think it's ok to make fun of any religion, but, like any organisation that influences and affects the lives of millions of people worldwide, every religion should be prepared to stand up to scrutiny and admit when it has caused problems. If it's not ok to point out problems, what then? Should they be covered up?

I don't think Christianity is criticised any more or less than other religions- from my own point of view within a secular society, that is.

Anyway, chen bao jun asked for proof that the Catholic Church does not have a good history. The responses she got weren't attacks against Catholiscism, just people providing what she requested. I hope my post wasn't taken the wrong way.

Scarlet_Heart
April 6th, 2014, 09:18 AM
I don't think it's true that it's not ok to point out problems with any religion except Christianity. I don't think it's ok to make fun of any religion, but, like any organisation that influences and affects the lives of millions of people worldwide, every religion should be prepared to stand up to scrutiny and admit when it has caused problems. If it's not ok to point out problems, what then? Should they be covered up?

I don't think Christianity is criticised any more or less than other religions- from my own point of view within a secular society, that is.

Anyway, chen bao jun asked for proof that the Catholic Church does not have a good history. The responses she got weren't attacks against Catholiscism, just people providing what she requested. I hope my post wasn't taken the wrong way.

Oh, absolutely not, Furnival. I don't think your (yours and others') responses were unkind. I was simply saying that there is legitimacy to what Chen was saying prior to your comments. Here:


Okay, time to stop discussing politics and just simply make fun of people with southern accents who believe in God and the Bible and that always safe target, the Catholic church.
Even though someone just showed that the original photo was shopped.

Christians are always a safe target, at least in America. People do patronize them, especially those of the southern, perhaps Evangelical variety. But it is horribly intolerant and taboo to speak that way of any other religion to which you don't belong. People of their own group can make jokes about that group whether it's a religious or ethnic one. But anyone can make fun of Christians or white people. The justification is usually that Christians/white people have had an oppressive majority in the past. But I've never liked that or any reasoning that justifies current wrongs with past ones. It's cliche to say, but "an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" applies.

ETA: The Catholic church has done a lot of good over the centuries as well. Hospitals, schools, administering to the poor... Good and bad, yin and yang, every group comprised of many people will have good and bad elements because that is the nature of humanity.

furnival
April 6th, 2014, 09:30 AM
Thanks for explaining, Scarlet_Heart. It's different over here. We make fun of absolutely everyone, regardless of religion ;)

patienceneeded
April 6th, 2014, 10:18 AM
Thanks for explaining, Scarlet_Heart. It's different over here. We make fun of absolutely everyone, regardless of religion ;)

(Bolded is mine) And that is exactly why I love the BBC and everything British. No-holds-barred humor. No worries about getting one's "knickers in a twist" or offending someone somewhere over some random word you didn't mean anyway or got misconstrued. I really should move to England. :)

patienceneeded
April 6th, 2014, 10:19 AM
Oops. Double Post. Silly computer.

truepeacenik
April 6th, 2014, 10:50 AM
So, someone can post fully against one philosophy, but calls others out when they post against the philosophy they personally hold?

Politics and religion are very intertwined, around the world. Some is just more obvious.

Aderyn
April 6th, 2014, 12:22 PM
Christians are always a safe target, at least in America. People do patronize them, especially those of the southern, perhaps Evangelical variety. But it is horribly intolerant and taboo to speak that way of any other religion to which you don't belong. People of their own group can make jokes about that group whether it's a religious or ethnic one. But anyone can make fun of Christians or white people. The justification is usually that Christians/white people have had an oppressive majority in the past. But I've never liked that or any reasoning that justifies current wrongs with past ones.

I sort of see what you're saying, there is a tendency for people to speak up to defend other religions (especially minority religions in America) rather than Christianity and demonize those who criticize Islam or another religion. Personally, speaking from the perspective of an atheist, I think it's ridiculous and there shouldn't be such a taboo around it. I think that might be because a lot of the criticism I hear against say, Islam, is from the perspective of a Christian, and is just (at it's core), "Your religion is wrong, mine is right!".

To be fair, though, America has to deal with a lot of influence from Christianity - most of our country is Christian, where an entire prominent political party pretty much makes it living by refering back to Christianity (incorrectly or correctly - that's another topic) and the other prominent party has strong influences from it too and having a non-Christian person in political power is extremely taboo, far moreso than criticizing a non-Christian religion. We don't see anywhere near the same amount of political power that Islam has over our political candidates or over our cultural standards. In such a case, I can understand why the criticism leveled against Christianity would be very large compared to the criticism against Judaism, Hinduism or Islam. It's a "safe target" because it has such a huge effect on our political climate and our society. Not to say all of the criticisms are valid (some are nothing more than mindless drivel)..

I agree about the attitude surrounding white people as well, they're always a good target. Even further, the straight white male is frequently a target, which gets under my skin quite a bit, which is a whole other rant in itself.

Scarlet_Heart
April 6th, 2014, 01:03 PM
So, someone can post fully against one philosophy, but calls others out when they post against the philosophy they personally hold?

Politics and religion are very intertwined, around the world. Some is just more obvious.

You're going to have to clarify that some. I'm not sure what you mean, nor to whom you're responding.

I know I wasn't calling anyone out. Just agreeing with and supporting what Chen said.

Synnovea
April 6th, 2014, 05:13 PM
You're going to have to clarify that some. I'm not sure what you mean, nor to whom you're responding.

I know I wasn't calling anyone out. Just agreeing with and supporting what Chen said.

The way I read truepeacenik's comment it is that chen is criticizing the political ideologies of those in this thread who identify as far lefties, but finds it unacceptable when her own (presumably) religious ideologies are criticized in return.

chen bao jun
April 6th, 2014, 06:52 PM
I believe True Peacenik was obliquely referring to me. Of course I am open to correction if I am mistaken and she was not. But since I spoke against Communism first,I believe I am the one being referred to.
So I am answering her: You are accusing me of having a double standard, but in fact I do not. I posted about Communism and asked if anyone can name a Communist regime that has not had genocide, starvation, thought police and prison camps, as well as closed borders holding the people in, in practice, during the century in which we have had Communist or Marxist rule in many different parts of the world with completely different cultures and histories and societies. From China, to Russia, to the Marxist states in Africa, to Cuba, including South Korea and of course Pol Pot's regime. No one has yet answered that question and pointed out any Communist state that has not been frankly, a nightmare for the masses of people living in it (with a Communist elite profiting from the people's misery and holding themselves to a completely different standard. People have responded saying that Marxism is different from Stalinism and such nonsense (read The Gulag Archipelago and the Black Book of Communism if you want to know why I am saying this is nonsense. But no one has answered my question.
However some posts were written then accusing the Catholic Church. I asked, post your proof, which is not an unreasonable request. I posted evidence for my statement about Communism. To my complete lack of surprise, people started posting about the Inquisition and the priest pedophile scandal as well as that the Church supported the Nazis. Also the Magdalen scandal (that's not usually one that comes up, but there's been a movie.). Both the Inquisition and the pedophile priest scandal were reprehensible and there should not even have been one victim. However, both have been, shall we say, not reported very fairly? Historians who go back and look at the Inquistion's records do not find the bloodbath of torture and mayhem that you would think it was from popular culture's idea of it. A Jewish historian, Steven Katz, wrote in a 1994 that 90% of the inquisitions sentences were canonical penances--he would hardly have a reason to want to make the Church look good. Agostino Borromeo, after work in the archives in Spain, found that about 125,000 persons were investigated by the Spanish Inquisition, of which 1.8% were executed (2,250 people). That's 2, 250 people during a period of 350 years. How many did Stalin take out in a day again? I repeat that of course none of those 2,250 people should have died. Neither should anyone have been murdered in the Holocaust. Which the Catholic Church had absolutely nothing to do with. Yes, Hitler was christened as a Catholic as a baby but no one can accuse him of practicing the Catholic faith. John Cornwell wrote a book called Hitler's Pope which accuses Pius XII of collaborating with Hitler and it got a lot of publicity--interestingly, another book actually written by a Rabbi,David G. Dalin, which got NO publicity brought forward a lot of evidence that Pius XII worked to save Jews. So anyone accusing Pius XII should at least read BOTH the books. Also, so many Catholics resisted Hitler and tried to save Jews that many of them also ended up in concentration camps. Dachau had a entire block of just priests who suffered incredibly for the work they had done in this regard and for their resistance. Some research I am doing currently (I'm a historian) on life in France under the Nazis keep turning up evidence that people of the time were very aware that the Catholic priests and nuns were involved in hiding and saving Jewish children and that Jews tried to get their children cared for by them to save the children's lives. This is in original documents written by people who lived during the sad period. So blaming the Catholic church for Hitler just shows one is not well informed. The pedophile priest scandal is horrible and a horrible breach of trust and there were definitely problems in the Catholic hierarchy that allowed very sick people to keep being passed along, committing crimes. You really can't use that as an excuse to say that the whole church is terrible, though unless you apply the same standard to everyone who does the exact same thing. And here are some facts about that http://www.themediareport.com/fast-facts/ I don't want to go on and on, I think you get my gist. Someone else has pointed out that the good things the church does somehow are never talked about, and this is also true. The church, during the Roman empire, put a stop to the arena games in which people were killed for public amusement, put an end to infanticide, especially of female babies and when the empire fell in the West, was responsible for whatever was saved of civilization in europe for the next 500-600 years, saving whatever we have of books from the ancient, keeping literacy alive and acting as a civilizing influence upon barbarian tribes. It's not only true that hospitals and old age homes and systems that cared for the poor were all INVENTED by the church but the church promulgated the idea of all humans having worth and dignity that is now taken for granted in Western Society and is not natural to mankind, if you look at civilizations that have not been touched by Christianity. People in such civilizations tend to care for their own, but not to have to idea of what is called "Christian charity" for a reason. Women gained a whole new standing with Christianity that was not there in the ancient world. I could go on and on. As someone else has written in this thread, yes, the church is human beings and they are fallible and you can definitely find flaws and failings and bad periods. But when you sum everything up, if you are being fair, the influence of the church has been for good much more than for bad.
By the way, full disclosure, I am not a Catholic. I am, as I said, a historian.

RainbowBowser
April 6th, 2014, 07:07 PM
Well that escalated quickly O_o

truepeacenik
April 7th, 2014, 12:03 AM
Remember that even the mock of the original photo is aimed at males.

Subservient wimminfolk are supposed to have long hair because the bible says so, and the dichotomy in America was church/Communist theory. Especially the Catholic Church,which supported fascist governments over communist.

This was my quote.
The ideological dichotomy of the United States from about 1930 on, and definitely post WWII, has been "godless Commies" v church, any church, but the RC church has been a leading force in anti communist works, to the point of supporting fascist regimes.


I then questioned why people questioning the RC were any different than those questioning communist thought.

furnival
April 7th, 2014, 01:38 AM
Also the Magdalen scandal (that's not usually one that comes up, but there's been a movie.).
chen, I must admit I find this unnecessarily cynical, even for me.
The reason I mentioned this was because my paternal grandmother spent four of her teenage years in one of these places, had her first child stolen from her, never to be found, and has suffered every day of her life since as a result. Not to mention the residual guilt ingrained in her by a religion that teaches it to its followers as if it were as holy as joy or peace or love.

She went on to leave Ireland as soon as she could and have ten children with my grandfather, nine of which survived, none of which kept her faith.

And no, I haven't seen the movie.

chen bao jun
April 7th, 2014, 04:03 PM
Furnival, I apologize very sincerely for being snarky about something that hurt your grandmother so much. It is horrible to lose your child and I can understand the bad feelings towards people who perpertrated this. It must be extra hard because she never had another child--although I am a bit confused--if she is your paternal grandmother, didn't your father survive?

If you think that the Catholic Church teaches guilt, however, you don't understand it's teachings. This is not true at all.
I hope that you are able to get rid of your bad feelings eventually. some terrible things happened in my family too, but I hang on to what my friend the Holocaust survivor always says. She lost her whole family except her mother and her father was shot in front of her face. She says that when she met her mother again after the death camps and the forced marches adn all the other complete hell, her mother told her to let go of her anger, because it would only hurt her, no one else.

furnival
April 8th, 2014, 02:02 AM
Furnival, I apologize very sincerely for being snarky about something that hurt your grandmother so much. It is horrible to lose your child and I can understand the bad feelings towards people who perpertrated this. It must be extra hard because she never had another child--although I am a bit confused--if she is your paternal grandmother, didn't your father survive?

If you think that the Catholic Church teaches guilt, however, you don't understand it's teachings. This is not true at all.
I hope that you are able to get rid of your bad feelings eventually. some terrible things happened in my family too, but I hang on to what my friend the Holocaust survivor always says. She lost her whole family except her mother and her father was shot in front of her face. She says that when she met her mother again after the death camps and the forced marches adn all the other complete hell, her mother told her to let go of her anger, because it would only hurt her, no one else.
?
As I said, she had ten more children, nine of whom survived.

Thank you for the apology.



ETA: If what you say is true, then evidently my grandmother (a lifelong Catholic despite everything) does not understand the teachings of the Catholic Church. The shame and punishment she was put through for the 'sin' of having a child at sixteen has affected her her whole life, and to this day she still believes that in some way she deserved it as she had done something so terrible in the eyes of the Church. It is an indisputable fact that the Church ingrained in her a sense of guilt and shame so powerful that it has never left her. This cannot be airily dismissed by saying "Well, you don't understand its teachings".

It's not my bad feelings I wish to get rid of, it's my grandmother's. I just feel so sad for her.