Proof (or at least pretty good evidence) for the power of the updo

[MadeiraD]

So I like reading antique beauty manuals, and I was reading a victorian book on the art of hairstyling, and they used some HARSH dyes (stuff we wouldn't put anywhere near our head now, lye anyone?) and curling irons heated over a fire and used some very questionable products (let's put strychnine and highly toxic spanish fly on our heads, whee)... so they weren't much kinder to their hair (or in many cases less kind) than we are today, and yet many women were able to grow REALLY impressive manes. Why? Hair was always worn up, that's it.

[spidermom]

And the ends probably looked like crap, but it wasn't fashionable to cut it way back when.

[Panth]

(And they used absolutely masses of hair pieces / rats / false plaits / etc.)

[MadeiraD]

They did indeed use loads of hair pieces... then again so do modern day folks... sock buns are the new hair pads! Extensions are the new false plaits.

[CremeTron]

I am now wearing my up hair up and trying to do too much to it for this reason, Madeira!

I used to wear hair hair in a ponytail at school and college every day and it never seemed too difficult to grow despite the relaxing, dying, heated tools and bleaching. My mother also used to heat a metal comb on the hob on and open flame to straighten my hair!

Thanks for the post and insight :)

[Loviatar]

And they didn't eat as much processed food as we do (I know my hair improves when I follow a decent non processed diet regime).

[MadeiraD]

Weeeelll, the food wasn't processed, but bread contained huge amounts of chalk, and there were loads of poisonous food additives added to everything "mercury as a preservative in canned goods? why not?" so I'm not sure that accounts for it, food quality prior to regulation was pretty... vile.

[Autumn_Fairy]

The past few days Ive been really trying hard to conform to the LHC ways :p

I've been wearing my hair up in a simple bun. I got some spin pins and ones with flowers on the end, real pretty. But today, after I got home, I had to take it down, I was feeling uncomfortable. I don't really know how to explain it except that it's something like the relief off taking of heels or a corset. Not that my hairdo was so much painful, but it just didn't feel right. I think its purely psychological, but I feel so much better letting it down. I am going to try real hard though to wear it up at least for going out of the house, but at home, that's my time and my hair will be down. I never remember my hair looking unhealthy when it was longer, but depending how long I decide to go this time around, better safe than sorry :)

[ErinLeigh]

Such an interesting post/topic.
I never really thought about all the harsh things that were done to hair or food back then. I guess the combo of washing less and wearing hair up really did help them.
We often hear of people who cannot grow past APL/BSL but I have yet to see old pics of a woman who hovered at those lengths (unless she they hid from photographers)
I am going to google this topic for fun. Thanks for posting :)

[Laurenji]

The past few days Ive been really trying hard to conform to the LHC ways :p

I've been wearing my hair up in a simple bun. I got some spin pins and ones with flowers on the end, real pretty. But today, after I got home, I had to take it down, I was feeling uncomfortable. I don't really know how to explain it except that it's something like the relief off taking of heels or a corset. Not that my hairdo was so much painful, but it just didn't feel right. I think its purely psychological, but I feel so much better letting it down. I am going to try real hard though to wear it up at least for going out of the house, but at home, that's my time and my hair will be down. I never remember my hair looking unhealthy when it was longer, but depending how long I decide to go this time around, better safe than sorry :)

I know what you mean. If you're not used to wearing your hair up, part of it could be that your hair follicles aren't used to the position of your hair in a bun, and giving you mild discomfort.

Part of it could also just be that I find it much harder to rest/lay my head on things with a bun in. It's too stiff. Since I really can't stand to just have my hair loose, to get that nice "taking off heels" feeling, I'll take my hair down and braid it. I feel much more relaxed after that.

[Aderyn]

Such an interesting topic, indeed! Not just referring to haircare, even the information surrounding the food production and lack of regulations is fascinating. It seems to be a common thing amongst all cultures where long hair is prevalent - regularly wearing the hair braided and/or in an updo.

[MadeiraD]

Yeah food was pretty heavily adulterated in that era, and in large cities the poor were abominably nourished

[TheHowlingWolf]

oooh all this info is so interesting! Do you remember the title of the book? Do you also have any other recommendations for books on similar topics?

[MadeiraD]

Well I have a few (you can actually find a lot of them digitized because they're in the public domain)
One is my lady's dressing room by the Barroness Staffe
The Ugly Girl Papers (author's name not found)
The Beauty Book of Roxana Rion, there are loads more
Bridgeford's Barber
The book of beauty, vigor and elegance
De La Banta's Advice To Ladies

[TheHowlingWolf]

Thank you thank you so much!

[LunaLuvsU]

How they treat their hair, I would say, changes when it comes to culture and era. Maybe it wasnt as healthy as it looked? Hair will grow almost any way you treat it and because cutting wasnt something they did then I guess it just grew and grew.

[Autumn_Fairy]

I know what you mean. If you're not used to wearing your hair up, part of it could be that your hair follicles aren't used to the position of your hair in a bun, and giving you mild discomfort.

Part of it could also just be that I find it much harder to rest/lay my head on things with a bun in. It's too stiff. Since I really can't stand to just have my hair loose, to get that nice "taking off heels" feeling, I'll take my hair down and braid it. I feel much more relaxed after that.

I never considered that my head just isn't 'used' to it. Ill have to keep with it and see if I can 'break it in' lol. I have had varying lengths of long hair all my childhood and I have always warn it loose. I don't much like the feeling of *all* my hair hanging free, so I do often pin back the sides in a sort of not fancy but sort of medieval way to keep it out of my face. Anyhow, Ive got my first hair sticks on the way and they should be incentive enough to keep with the up-do program. :)

[chen bao jun]

MadeiraD you are on spot about Victorian nutrition and their terrible hair care. They did even worse than what you have mentioned. They used to singe split ends, for instance. Like, with fire. And yet they did have wonderful hair.
I do think its updoes, stretching washes and oiling the hair.
I am wondering though, about hair at other periods. I always assumed they had extremely long hair in the Middle Ages, also (yes, I know, very long period, Middle Ages,can't generalize). Recently I have been looking at paintings in lots of Books of Hours though and they often show saints and the Virgin (before childbirth) with their hair loose. To my surprise, these women most often have no more than APL or at most brastrap hair. At least in the 15th century books of hours. Mary Magdalene is the only exception, usually shown with long, thick hair, classic or longer (I supposed because it was long enough to wash feet with).
I keep wondering why they don't have more hair in a period of natural hair care and mostly wearing it not only up, but covered. All I can think of is that that the ideal in the period was very blond and the women painted are usually obviously natural 'Scandinavian' type blondes who tend to have that fine, fragile and breakable hair. Mary Magdalene is never shown as this type, but looks more coarse and wavy. the Renaissance also shows all the women with long hair according to LHC standards (one thinks of Botticelli)--maybe because they were Italian?

[Laurenji]

I never considered that my head just isn't 'used' to it. Ill have to keep with it and see if I can 'break it in' lol. I have had varying lengths of long hair all my childhood and I have always warn it loose. I don't much like the feeling of *all* my hair hanging free, so I do often pin back the sides in a sort of not fancy but sort of medieval way to keep it out of my face. Anyhow, Ive got my first hair sticks on the way and they should be incentive enough to keep with the up-do program. :)

My hair is used to most updos, but it still gets a little sore when I do a bun very high up on the top of my head. One of the ways to tell if your hair isn't used to being up is if, when you take your hair down, your scalp is a little sore, especially certain patches where the hair was pulled very much against its normal direction.

[browneyedsusan]

I never considered that my head just isn't 'used' to it. Ill have to keep with it and see if I can 'break it in' lol. I have had varying lengths of long hair all my childhood and I have always warn it loose. I don't much like the feeling of *all* my hair hanging free, so I do often pin back the sides in a sort of not fancy but sort of medieval way to keep it out of my face. Anyhow, Ive got my first hair sticks on the way and they should be incentive enough to keep with the up-do program. :)

Laurenji is spot on. When I first started growing, bobbypinning my bangs back gave me a headache after 10 minutes, and I thought something was wrong with me! (It was from wearing a pixie for years on end, and I wasn't used to the weight of anything in my hair.) If you put it up everyday, your brains will eventually tune it out--kind of like how you don't really feel your clothes or shoes once you have them on. Every day, try to leave it up a little longer, but take it down when it bothers. It might take a while--took me months--but you'll eventually get used to it. Hairsticks are comfortable, so they'll probably help! Good luck!

@MadeiraD: I never really thought it through before, but your post makes perfect sense. Thanks for pulling it all together and saying it out loud. Very interesting stuff!

[blue_eyes]

The past few days Ive been really trying hard to conform to the LHC ways :p

I've been wearing my hair up in a simple bun. I got some spin pins and ones with flowers on the end, real pretty. But today, after I got home, I had to take it down, I was feeling uncomfortable. I don't really know how to explain it except that it's something like the relief off taking of heels or a corset. Not that my hairdo was so much painful, but it just didn't feel right. I think its purely psychological, but I feel so much better letting it down. I am going to try real hard though to wear it up at least for going out of the house, but at home, that's my time and my hair will be down. I never remember my hair looking unhealthy when it was longer, but depending how long I decide to go this time around, better safe than sorry :)

I feel the exact same way whenever I wear my hair up. I only do it because I know it is beneficial to my hair, but it just doesn't feel right. I feel very self conscious without my hair down.

[kitana97]

Well I have a few (you can actually find a lot of them digitized because they're in the public domain)
One is my lady's dressing room by the Barroness Staffe
The Ugly Girl Papers (author's name not found)
The Beauty Book of Roxana Rion, there are loads more
Bridgeford's Barber
The book of beauty, vigor and elegance
De La Banta's Advice To Ladies

Just looked up De La Banta's Advice To Ladies and there's some pretty interesting stuff in there. "Women are brave in the case of beauty" - haha. I tried to look for a section on bedroom etiquette but I couldn't find it.

[roseomalley]

My tiny bun drives me crazy, too. My hair is baby fine, and the bobbie pins needed to contain it in a bun really feels pokey. A twist feels better, but than I cannot rest my head back onto my chair. I have settled on a French braid for most days.

[HoneyDayTripper]

If you look at old photos closely you can sometimes see how fried and damaged their hair was. This photo https://img0.etsystatic.com/018/0/7831527/il_340x270.491855234_rkkz.jpg for example. But that could also be her hair texture.

[Autumn_Fairy]

If you look at old photos closely you can sometimes see how fried and damaged their hair was. This photo https://img0.etsystatic.com/018/0/7831527/il_340x270.491855234_rkkz.jpg for example. But that could also be her hair texture.

I've never thought much about the appearance of their hair, especially since most pictures are paintings, not photos. But now that I think about it and look for some photos, there are quite a few poofy frizzy dry manes back then when let down for a photo. I think that heavily oiling the hair could have covered up a lot of the damage in some pictures. I also read that their hair smelled bad from being so fried and had to be covered with perfumes. I'm aware that an up-do protects, but Im not sure than any amount of braiding and 'bunning' ones hair can save it from all out torturuse treatment the rest of the time. I mean, after all, if you take a glass out of a cupboard and break it, it's not going to fix itself if placed back in the cupboard.

ETA - oh, wait, but is the point here that although the hair looks and feels like a wooly sheep that it still grows long because of the up do? if thats so, then that is strange because if the up-do is supposed to protect one's hair but one deliberately damages it in between 'dos then isn't that the same thing as natural damage from leaving it down? At any rate, Im still trying out the up-dos on a mission to be a "true longhair" :). At the same time, I have long hair because I want the look of long hair being down, so its kind of counterintuitive to put it up, but Ill do it as it suits me and when it doesn't, Ill proudly sport my free flowing tresses ;)

[Weewah]

This thread reminds me of when I read one of my mom's beauty books from the 60s. It was cool to read advice that came from a completely different perspective than what I was used to reading in my Seventeen and Cosmo Girl magazines.

[Syren_Curls]

I can relate, Autumn_Fairy. Part of the appeal of long hair for me is the look of it down. I'm also not as used to having it up all day every day. Besides, my length, fairytale style, and ii type make me feel like my buns are a bit strange. I've tried to do braids a lot though instead. Sock buns work well for me too but I wonder if they're as protective. I've just gotten my first pair of hairsticks thinking that it would be easier and more protective now. I'm having a hard time though because they're so new to me and I can't seem to pull off anything other than the regular cinnamon bun yet. And the issue I have with the way the bun looks is still the same.

Much like blue_eyes said, I feel a bit self conscious with it up so frequently. I used to like the way I looked with my hair up so I didn't think it would be much of an issue in that department, but I've gotten so used to identifying the way I look with my hair down that it now looks funny to me. I'm guessing that will change too. And roseomalley's point about having a hard time resting my head on things is true too. I kind of feel like it chafing against things like that would be the opposite of protective... and I don't do that so much when it's down-I move it out of the way or twist is away or something.

I'm trying to figure it out so I can grow another few inches and also let the layers even out a bit more.

[Aderyn]

Much like blue_eyes said, I feel a bit self conscious with it up so frequently. I used to like the way I looked with my hair up so I didn't think it would be much of an issue in that department, but I've gotten so used to identifying the way I look with my hair down that it now looks funny to me. I'm guessing that will change too.

When I started wearing my hair up regularly (about 2 months ago now), I definitely felt very awkward. Just soldiering through that awkward phase, though, has led to my not being so self conscious about wearing my hair up. I think it definitely just takes a little bit of time to get used to, but definitely worth it.

I can't even imagine wearing my hair down regularly anymore.. gets in the way of everything!

[MadeiraD]

Basically, my point was that fried hair will grow long if worn up.

[Syren_Curls]

Thanks, Aderyn. I can handle two months ;-) I'll reframe it as a transition phase!

[cat11]

before I joined LHC I pretty much always wore my hair up anyway just because I have thick, wavy/curly hair and it blows around and gets in my face pretty easily. I feel silly/messy/impractical with it down unless Im in a situation where I'm not moving around much or there isn't any wind (fat chance where I live). I definately do it even more since joining LHC though and it's so much less tangled. And for me detangling all my fine hair is what causes breakage and damage and frizz so avoiding tangles=avoiding damage and since wearing my hair up avoids tangles, hair up=avoiding damage.

Historical people were so ignorant and vain when it came to beauty! Some modern people still are... clogging acne causing foundation to make your skin look "good and smooth"... cosmetics tested on animals... even if it's FDA approved most makeup is still weird chemicals. Some people still fry their hair with harsh dyes that are bad for them and the earth. And straighteners. It's even the popular opinion that to do so is normal... Common sense tells me it would be better to leave myself alone and not take the chance for something worthless.

so many things to facepalm at.

[Aderyn]

It's amazing the lengths hair can grow to even with lots of abuse and damage, without a doubt MadeiraD, the updo is very powerful, indeed. Now I'm curious to see how those who flat iron/heat curl their hair everyday who struggle with length would do if they wore their hair up in protective styles all of the time!

Syren_Curls, I was fully converted within a month, and it was only the first week or two that was exceptionally awkward. Good luck!

[MadeiraD]

Admittedly I'm pretty fond of artifice, and modern formulations are much safer and less... blatantly insane (the development of the scientific peer review process has helped a lot) but to each their own.

[Autumn_Fairy]

Basically, my point was that fried hair will grow long if worn up.

Yeah I think I missed that point the first time around, sorry :p but I gotcha now. I know that my hair can get to almost hip without an up do but I've never tried to grow it longer than that so I don't know if it would have.

[VJG]

The past few days Ive been really trying hard to conform to the LHC ways :p

I've been wearing my hair up in a simple bun. I got some spin pins and ones with flowers on the end, real pretty. But today, after I got home, I had to take it down, I was feeling uncomfortable. I don't really know how to explain it except that it's something like the relief off taking of heels or a corset. Not that my hairdo was so much painful, but it just didn't feel right. I think its purely psychological, but I feel so much better letting it down. I am going to try real hard though to wear it up at least for going out of the house, but at home, that's my time and my hair will be down. I never remember my hair looking unhealthy when it was longer, but depending how long I decide to go this time around, better safe than sorry :)

I feel exactly the same way after wearing my hair up.