I'm starting to be overwhelmed with taking care of my hair. New ideas please?

[CurlyCap]

Hi all!

Basically, my hair now is hip length with between ii and iii thickness (a heavy shed last year means it's iii near the scalp and nearer to ii at the ends). My curls are between a sharpie and a pencil in width, with the usual unpredictable variation seen in very curly hair. Up until this length, my usual routine was to co-wash nightly with a cone-free cheapie conditioner, finger detangle with conditioner in, rinse thoroughly and finish with an ACV rinse. After exiting the shower, I usually apply a leave-in consisting of a higher-quality conditioner mixed with oils and butters. My full routine is my only blog entry if you want the gritty details.

I've had hair this long in the past, but as a child my parents took care of it and as an adult it was always layered. This is my first time trying to work with it in it's full thickness as an adult. When I had long hair as a kid and young adult, my hair was maintained by brushing the curls out, braiding it, and leaving it alone for a week.

Recently, I've started to become very frustrated with my hair because it's needs are changing as it grows longer...and I don't quite know how to take good care of my hair at it's current length while also meeting my "real life" daily requirements. So I'm posting my biggest issues on the main forum in hopes of getting new ideas. Overall, my hair is in wonderful condition and I don't want to trash it over the next 6 months because I'm frustrated. I can easily see myself starting to either neglect it or opt to do things quickly instead of correctly.

The main problems I'm facing are these:

1. I work in VERY dirty environment and so need to co-wash every night. The smell alone if I don't is horrendous.
I actually don't mind this because wet hair is the only hair I can easily detangle. I bring up the need to cowash nightly because it means stretching washes isn't an option for me. I don't think so, at least.

2. It's getting very difficult to easily detangle my hair.
To this point, I've always finger detangled my hair while I co-washed. It's been very easy and was accomplished in 3-4 minutes in the shower. As my hair has grown longer, I've started to wear my hair up in very simple updos to keep it out of the way and prevent ridiculous levels of tangling. My simple updos are usually variations on cinnabuns or figure 8s, with very little braiding or high manipulation styles because it's difficult to detangle my hair enough to do them. So when I say I wear my hair up, that means I let it dry in curls and then put the curls up. Putting the curls up is better than letting them stay down, but they still can wrap and twist around each other because that's what curls do. My first frustration with my current length is that I used to be able to co-wash every night and quickly finger detangle any tangles that built up over the course of a day. However, finger detangling doesn't really separate and smooth the clumps anymore so I've started using combs or a tangle teezer on wet, conditioner-soaked hair.

3. Using anything but finger detangling is causing more breakage and splits.
My hair very rarely splits or breaks and I have very little natural shedding. I usually lose ~10-15 hairs each cowash. I trim every six months as a preventative measure, and when I do I see only a handful of splits. My biggest problem is usually single strand knots. However, in order to address how difficult it's been to detangle my hair as it grows longer, I've started to use combs and tangle teezers instead of just my fingers and it's causing a LOT more damage. I'm seeing splits all over my hair. Currently, my hair is still wet and conditioner-soaked when I detangle, so my guess is that using tools is just a harsher method and it's causing more damage. I should add that I can get away with finger detangling for a few days, but my newer shorter hairs start to mat near my scalp when do this, leading to more issues with detangling when I do finally pull out the tools.

4. Wearing my hair brushed out and up all the time to prevent tangles isn't an option. I'd rather cut.
I keep thinking about how my hair was always basically brushed and up when I was a kid. It made dentangling a snap and conditioning easy for my parents. But I really hated my hair that way because it was heavy and boring and frizzy. I was SO HAPPY to finally figure out how to wear my hair out and curly. The thing I like most about my hair is that it is curly. If I have brush all of that out to make it more reasonable to care for, I'd rather cut up to shoulder and just not have long hair.

So those are my issues. Do you have any ideas on how to change or simplify things so that I don't have as much frustration with my hair? Do I need to perhaps adjust my idea of how long it takes to care for longer hair? Currently, it's taking 20-30 minutes a day to co-wash and detangle my hair with tools...and that seems like a really long time to me, especially considering that I'm still getting breakage. After that, there's another 5 minutes to smooth leave-ins and butters over my hair after I leave the shower. Styling is yet more time on top of that, although I usually opt for simple, quick updos.

My apologies for the long post, but I wanted what information I had to be there at the top of the thread.

Any ideas appreciated!

[CurlyCap]

For those that don't know what my hair looks like:

Typical curl pattern. Currently hangs at APL when worn like this:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4620&d=1369879500

Stretched with product to show length:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9838&d=1395194740

[legendya]

You have such beautiful hair, cc. When my hair was longer, I noticed that it took much longer to detangle. It is easier now that it is shorter, but I can't do many hairstyles u_u. So, I guess it might be just that. Longer hair will take a longer amount of time and much more effort to care for. It wouldn't be helpful to give you that as an answer, right? Of course, I have a few ideas to quicken your routine. You could start braiding/twisting your hair or keep it in protective styles. That would reduce the amount of tangles you would get when wearing your hair down. That in turn would reduce detangling time. You could also try cowashing your hair in braids or twists. After cowashing, you could unravel the braids or twists and try finger detangling. It should be much easier to finger detangle and you would not have to worry about damage from tools.

[sally_neuf]

just passing by to say wow curls!!! so pretty and bouncing! :thud:

Not much ideas however :( sorry!

[lapushka]

Could you possibly go one day longer with some dry shampoo? Worth a shot if you haven't tried yet. Modern dry shampoos can be quite potent.

Maybe try a Tangle Teezer to detangle, or a wide-tooth comb *before* a shower. It might make it easier, and they are great tools if successful. Oh, I read now you are already going that route, but in the shower. Maybe still do fingers in the shower and TT or WDC out, before a wash.

Finally, maybe try cutting back an inch, or two. That might alleviate some of the problems you're now having at this greater length.

Looking good, though!!!

[Mustang Suzy]

Such beautiful curls! Decades ago when I had a super curly perm I used a wide hair pick and leave in conditioner to detangle and separate curls. For a simple updo I used the old style banana clip or pulled my hair back into a ponytail twisted once and brought the ends to the crown securing with a barrette (now days a flexi would be my choice). Hopefully this helps - you have beautiful hair!

[ErinLeigh]

Your hair is just WOW.

To me 20 min to wash/detangle and 5 min to apply products doesn't sound long at all but if you had a routine that was quicker before then I can see why that would be frustrating. Did you have the same issues when your hair was the length in the first picture? How did you feel about the hair then. Do you recall feeling happier then? The hair look amazing in that photo. Is that when styling was breeze?

It sounds like it is just going to have to be accepted that hair care at such a length with the curls is going to take you longer and it will have to come down to if you want that in your life. If you can no longer finger comb and find wide tooth, TT and other tools are causing breakage then you may have just hit that point where extra time will have to be given to detangle super slowly without trying to rush or trim back last place you were able to do as you pleased. I hate saying that but I don't know how there would be a faster routine with that glorious mane.

It sounds like you are already doing everything "right" so I would be interested to see if there is a tip that will work that speeds up the time or reduces knots that you don't already do.
The detangling at this point probably should take a lot time to do gently. Do you already section hair to wash? That would be the only thing I could thing which may help with tangles. Single strand knots though I have no idea as I get those myself and cannot get them to stop forming. I get one every week even with short hair. I have to oil them loose and I worry about the damage I get from trying to pull them apart.

I really hope you find what you looking for. It would be a shame to not be happy with you hair. It truly is beautiful.

[Crumpet]

Curlycap -- your hair is *amazing*. It sounds like your routine works well for your hair but not for you! I don't have any recommendations since my big one would be to stretch washes. I only wash once a week and I think I would go bonkers if I washed daily. Is there any way to cover your hair at work so that you can do this? If not, maybe others can chime in with some advice.

I will continue staring at your mane...

[swearnsue]

I would suggest two things. One, trim the ends a bit, that always helps with the tangles. Two, find a conditioner that has more slip to it, even if it costs more.

Your hair is beautiful.

[Kina]

My routine is similar to yours, although my hair is no where near as curly, thick or beautiful as yours. I finger comb daily in the shower w/ conditioner only. Once a week, I do use shampoo to wash my scalp, after I condition then I use a wide tooth comb and finally the tangle teaser to really ensure that there are no tangles left in my hair. I can't do it daily, but once a week isn't too onerous. my hair will never look as smooth and sleek, but it cuts down seriously on the tangles. HTH

[Beborani]

My suggestion would be is to go easy on detangling on daily basis even if you wash daily and detangle just once or twice a week. Reduces your shower time, takes care of cleansing and easier on the hair.

[Anje]

I love your hair, but since I'm not curly I don't know if my suggestions would really help all that much.

One thing I do wonder -- You said you work in a really dirty environment. Would you be opposed to covering your hair, at least in the dirty zones? That might allow you to stretch the washes and not have to deal with handling it quite as much. (I know Trolleypup swears by those "pony scrub" hats for such things, but I haven't tried one partially due to some... major personal style conflicts with the available fabrics.)

[Marbid]

I agree, beautiful curls..

I have curly hair too, not as dense as yours ( my canopy curls look like picture two and the curls under the canopy look like picture 1 regardless of how much conditioner... Also, my hair in braid waves is hip length on me, I'm short thou)

I personally opted for the combing and keep it in a bun or braid most of the time and stretching washes, I rarely let my curls form lately. Because they will tangle from just their nature, and i will have to wash my hair again to detangle.

I would like to say, that really, once you have more more hair, it will take more time and patience to care for. I section my hair in half and finger comb with conditioner under running water, then i slowly tangle teezer comb with some more conditioner, in the end, i condition twice. Also,it does take me some time to use a TT on my hair, from tips to roots, 15 minutes, and my hair is detangled mostly when i enter the shower because i wear it up. I have not noticed breakage like this, but more shed when using tangle teezer simply because it pulls out from the rest of my hair, hairs that are already shed. Those sheds would stay wrapped around my hairs and dry that way if i just finger comb.. Its curly hair, curly shed curls along with the rest of the curls.

Also, longer hair is older hair, find out if the breakage is really from tools, or just because the hair is aging..

In conclusion, it would be awesome to have waist length full on curly hair, but that hairs actual length would be no less than classic to achieve that. You cant really avoid a change in routine that would be more slowly and carefully and need more patience. Especially if worn curly every day and thus washed every day because of your work as well. You will start getting splits regardless, might need to trim more often to keep them at bay. Not yet, but perhaps if you decide to continue and let it grow, your updoos might change to accommodate more hair. Decide weather you would like to cut back 2 inches or so to your latest manageable length, our accommodate more time and care towards your hair. The results would be beautiful no doubt, but it will be so much more high maintenance.

You also have growing hairs too that are causing some nape tangles, i suggest you maintain and let those grow out.

[getoffmyskittle]

My hair is nowhere near as thick or curly as yours... and ultimately this is the reason I cut back from classic to TBL to waist to BSL. Maintaining really healthy long hair just takes a lot of time and effort, and I became less and less motivated to do all of the things it took. I had to spend 40 minutes 2-3 times per week just washing it, and as soon as you add in detangling and night-before-wash oiling (which I always did and which is necessary to maintain my hair's health at longer-than-waist lengths), I'm up to spending 20-40 minutes on my hair almost every *day*.

I also used to CO wash, but it took so long that I just gave up and started to use shampoo again. The small increase in hair niceness wasn't enough to make up for the huge increase in time. If you're washing your hair every day anyway, you might find that you cut your time in half by just using a gentle sulfate-free shampoo + high-quality conditioner for a normal amount of time (i.e., 1-3 minutes) instead.

[proo]

Too bad about the stinky work enviro, because yours is the perfect texture for those gorgeous updos on stretched hair.
You could wear it curly for a couple days, then stretch it by banding and get a couple days of updos ala JLo.
Apparently it can be washed while banded as well which would keep it detangled,
and is a good way to monitor your ends.

I say do a mini trim and see how you feel.
And have yourself a nice delicious cup of tea.

[CremeTron]

Oh dear, just lost a long post.

Anyway I agree with Beborani. I use the shower stream to "detangle" most days and only tough bits that are clearly caught up and then I properly detangle at weekends. As long as I do it every week my hair does not knot or matt.

As you know, I am a newbie but I do have a suggestion too- I think wearing your hair in 2-4 low braids that you bun or style from there could help. Since you work in an odour heavy environment do you wear a hat as that would hide the style even more?

I wore my hair two braids for a week that I then pinned up. I found in the shower, I could unbraid, cowash, moisturise one side at a time and it was quicker, then I loosely rebraided again and pinned up.

I felt I looked too girly in it that style. even pinned or with a hairstick so I stopped. My hair is short and thin but with your long, thick hair I think you can make it look sophisticated especially with a side part and a small side fringe.

Also I have a tangle teazer for my daughter and I find the bristles too short to penetrate. I use a seamless wide tooth comb on her very gently. She has 3a hair I think.

Love your hair photos by the way, such pretty hair!

[CremeTron]

Apparently it can be washed while banded as well which would keep it detangled,


What is banded? I would love to wash my scalp and hair without having to disturb my hair too much.

[molljo]

Have you tried diluted white vinegar as a deodorizer? I use it as an air freshener/DIY Febreze. The vinegar smell only lasts for about 10 minutes, and when it fades, all the other odors go with it. Maybe try spraying your hair when you get home from work just to see if it's a viable option? Other than that, I don't have any good advice as my hair's never been as long as yours, but this may be a small way to see if you can stretch washes.

[Vanilla]

I had a spiral perm at waist length that left me with slightly looser curls than yours. I didn't use very many leave ins at the time, but I also have F/M hair.

Maybe some ideas for other styles:

I didn't always wear my hair down, in half ups or a ponytail. On the days I wanted to wear a braid, I'd wash in the shower, finger detangle, then take out the tools to detangle, put leave in on soaking wet hair in sections (to keep it as detangled as much as possible) and then braid. I found straight English braids to be much easier (also at the time I had a hard time French braiding), and I could either bun it or leave it loose.

[DweamGoiL]

CurlyCap, sorry to hear you are frustrated with your hair at this length. I have and still admire your beautiful curls. Seeing your long bouncy curls on the forum always gives me hope as I have struggled to learn to care for my youngest daughter's hair, who has similar hair to yours. I am now almost ashamed to admit that I also comb/brush the curl out of her hair and it's kept in a braid on a daily basis. She's about to be 10 so I am hoping one day, she will continue to care for it because it is in beautiful shape.

I have found that once her hair grew to hip, it became tangly and the ends were not as easy to keep moisturized and in turn, would split. I trimmed it to mid-back. Her hair grows very fast. At mid-back, it is a LOT easier to take care of. It just doesn't tangle the same way than it did at the longer length. I hate to recommend to trim it back slightly and see if that helps, but it is what my experience dictates.

I also do agree with a conditioner with more slip. I have begun doing a deep treatment on her every other week that I mix up from half a portion of shea butter cream I make myself. It really is just whipped shea butter, mango butter, grapeseed oil and coconut oil and I mix this with a deep moisturizing conditioner like Moisture's Therapy Mega Moisture and I sit her under a heat cap for a half hour or so. I then CO wash her hair...like you, no poos. After the treatment, the manageability is quite impressive. It takes half the time to detangle and even if worn down, it tends to not mat together as it tends to do on other days when we just CO wash. This to me means the hair needs heavier conditioners more regularly.

I hope this helps and good luck in finding a good solution!

[Aingeal]

Oh gosh you sound so frustrated....
Heres what I do with my 3b curls. I dampen my hair in the morning (evenif I washed the night before.) I add my leave in, oil, and cream. Then I bun up while still damp before the curls can form and get all tangled. I do this every single morning. In the evening before bed, I take my hair down, and immediately put it in a sleep cap to keep tangles to a minimum. Next morning, I start all over. I wonder if Bunning while damp before curls form would help you too. When I hop into the shower to wash, I have very few tangles.

[CremeTron]

I agree, beautiful curls..

..simply because it pulls out from the rest of my hair, hairs that are already shed. Those sheds would stay wrapped around my hairs and dry that way if i just finger comb.. Its curly hair, curly shed curls along with the rest of the curls.



Thanks for mentioning this. Have just started using fingers only but may use my comb again every fortnight or so. I actually never thought about this before and why my hair would be matted if I didn't detangle for 2 weeks!


Molljo, this is a great tip for me as have been looking for a way to refresh my kitchen after cooking without overpowering perfumed smells. Sometimes I cut up lemons, sometimes I cannot be bothered! So this is a good tip for me. Wealth of info on this board : )

[duchess67]

CurlyCap, what gorgeous curls you have, just admiring your pics!

[CurlyCap]

Thanks for the replies so far everyone!

DweanGoil, what you described with your daughter is nearly exactly how it happened. I last trimmed my ends about two months ago so my ends are very fresh. It usually takes 6-7 months for my ends to feel at all "damaged". So I don't think its natty ends or product build up. However, at MBL to WL, my hair was a breeze to detangle. Now at hip it's a nightmare. I honestly don't think it's gross ends. I think theres a cumulative effect to trying to undo that many coils in a spring. But I'll figure it out.

I'm totally onboard with stepping up to a better conditioner for co-washing. It's such a shame because I loved how cheap my co-washing routine was, but I'll pay a bit more to get an easier detangle. So you'll see on the co-wash thread for the next few weeks getting tips on high slip, no cone conditioners.

I've also ordered a compact tangle teezer. I have an aqua splash right now that feels very big in my hand and is actually quite big in terms of brushing area. I think the compact will give me a little more control over where and how I'm applying my tools to my wet hair.

For those that asked, I already heavily section my hair to detangle in the shower. I basically work with 2-3 clumps at a time. I don't even do quarter or half-head sections. Which is why it was confusing that it was suddenly taking so much longer to deal with maintaining it.

Molljo, I'll experiment with a vinegar spritz on Friday, when I can stay up late and co-wash in case it doesn't work. I'm very familiar with vinegar as a deodarizer since I use boiling pots of scented vinegar water to deoderize my house from strong cooking smells. But I'm up against some big guns like the smell of old blood and feces. So while I could definitely go hard core about covering my hair (and that might cause some management problems), that's still not a smell I want to grind into my pillows. I'll report back for sure.

I'm going to try to learn a few more detangling and cowashing tricks before going into the world of damp bunning or braiding all the time. For one, both of those hit my personal pet peeve of having to wear my curly hair flattened all the time to make it "manageable". Also, my hair doesn't really flatten with bunning or braiding, it's just contained. So I'd have to wear it in a perpetually nearly damp bun or braid because if I let it out it will recurl or just be a giant frizz ball.

Please keep the thoughts and ideas coming. It's all very helpful, regardless of your hairtype!

[sourgrl]

CC, you have beautiful curls. Sorry to hear they are giving you so much frustration.

I know cones are a no-no for a curly, but are you using them? My DS has a mix of tight curls and loose waves. In one particular spot it used to mat terribly. What helps for him is after I've washed and conditioned his hair I work a pea size amount of Hello Hydration conditioner through his soaking wet length and leave it in. Once dry I use a tiny amount of panacea winter blend to tame his fly always. His hair doesn't mat anymore and it's no longer a battle to brush/comb his hair. His waves are on his crown so I use a tangle teaser to brush his hair. He's currently between APL and BSL but shrinkage keeps him at shoulder length.

I struggled most of my life with my waves. His crazy mix is a whole other issue! Hope you can find a solution that makes you happy with your curls.

[veryhairyfairy]

No advice, just dropping in to leave this :thud:

You have gorgeous, gorgeous hair! :flower:

[picklepie]

<hijack> I'm slightly shocked that you aren't *required* to cover your hair, working in that environment! I can certainly see why daily washing would be... desirable. <back to hair>

[Nightshade]

I'm not a fan of the Tangle Teaser, so take this with a bit of built-in bias, but I think those tiny little prongs aren't doing you many favors.

I'd suggest a Hairsense Comb (http://hairsense.com/bone_combs.php#seamless-combs-section), the big one I lovingly call my Viking Boat Oar (because it's THAT big).

Here it is, and then a second pic comparing it to my other combs/brushes.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_20im_rA1o8/UzwXsnFfIII/AAAAAAAAGzA/moF-6C1dN08/s390/Viking%2520Hair%2520Comb.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-vXDikxdmrQE/UzwXuztFyOI/AAAAAAAAGzI/1kACYBizNSw/s512/Combs.jpg
The two black combs are also hairsense. The smaller lives in my purse, the larger in the shower. Actually the styling one across the top is, too.

It's item 222, the Super Detangling Rake. It'd be a little closer to finger-detangling, with less friction. :)

The teeth are super far apart, the comb is seamless (mine needed a tiny bit of sanding with a nail file on some edges), and if you think that one is a bit too big, there's smaller versions :) I've had mine for years and it's also waterproof so you could use it in the shower if you wanted.

[Hootenanny]

Hi CurlyCap! Your hair is so amazing! I have a few thoughts that I hope might be helpful.

First, have you tried using a cone-free detangler, such as Kinky-Curly Knot Today, in addition to your regular leave-in/oils/etc? My friends with long, very tightly curly hair (3c-4a+) swear by that particular product. Adding something like that might enable you to keep using your less pricy condish; the slip of Knot Today is amazing. A product like this not a replacement for a conditioner, but rather is particularly designed just to make detangling easier.

Second, would you consider getting some long layers added? The reason I ask is that you said when your hair was layered before, you had much less of a problem.

Finally, would you consider trying coney conditioners? Some people with tightly curly hair (e.g. Teri at tightly curly: http://www.tightlycurly.com/welcome) tried going no-cone and found that it just didn't work for them. Cones can provide extra slip by coating the hair, and so can help to prevent some knots. If you use the right kind of cones (amino-functionalized, e.g.) you can continue to co-wash. I agree with sourgrl that sometimes cones are just what the doctor ordered!

[chen bao jun]

Curly cap, my hair is a VERY similar hairtype to yours, although my curls are somewhat tighter (I've got a lot more of those pencil sized ones than you do. I'm also very, very thick. What vanilla is describing here is what I do. I braid it when wet and full of conditioner in a couple of large, loose braids. They do not destroy the curl pattern(though they loosen it slightly--which is worth it because they keep it untangled) I can put the braids up and have a hair style. When I want to wear it loose, I just unbraid and finger detangle slightly, sometimes using some homemade flax see gel.
i even wash in braids also.
hope this helps. I don't have anywhere near your length, of course, so it may not. the work environment is an issue I don't have also.
just have to add one more thing--PLEASE don't cut. You are a really curly inspiration to those of us (like me) waiting and waiting to see some length in spite of having curls that it is possible.

I had a spiral perm at waist length that left me with slightly looser curls than yours. I didn't use very many leave ins at the time, but I also have F/M hair.

Maybe some ideas for other styles:

I didn't always wear my hair down, in half ups or a ponytail. On the days I wanted to wear a braid, I'd wash in the shower, finger detangle, then take out the tools to detangle, put leave in on soaking wet hair in sections (to keep it as detangled as much as possible) and then braid. I found straight English braids to be much easier (also at the time I had a hard time French braiding), and I could either bun it or leave it loose.

[Quixii]

No major advice, but I am confused as to why you feel you have to do any one thing "all the time." Sometimes I braid or bun my hair fresh out of the shower, sometimes I let it dry and then do something with it. I vary it depending on what I'm doing that day or the next couple days (since I don't have to wash everyday).

[ErinLeigh]

I agree with the posters suggesting cones. Since you cowash maybe a water soluble coney conditioner would help with detangling.
Paul Mitchel Products are water soluble. Their Tea tree conditioner and leave in both have the PEG # higher than 4 cones. I get single strand knots a lot so I pull out the Paul Mitchel when I do. I need that extra coney slip sometimes when I cannot get those little knots out.

[Seeshami]

I just recently been going through something similar. I actually did some bad things to the naughty mess to get his silly self sorted out. I did a mega clarification no conditioner to see what was going on with my hair when it dried and then after a few days soaked in avc and did nothing else and just let it dry. I do stretch my washes so that could be an advantage for me you can't use and yes my hair was dry and had to be handled very very carefully but the big huge degunk seems to have gotten the naught mess back on track.

The Naught Mess says, "You were going to cut off the red in mourning or as an offering to the fire what did you think I would do? Get cut? I'd rather behave."

You're still getting cut some time soon.

[CurlyCap]

Nightshade, I am using a hairsense comb! Great minds think alike. :cool: Mine isn't sold anymore, but it's between the super rake and the 5 tooth. It has seven teeth spaced pretty far apart. It's decent for detangling and came recommended from a 3a friend. For me, it's okay, but nothing to rave about. I've been using it more lately, but it's best use for me is to just reform wet hair into clumps if needed.

Hootenanny, one of the first things I did years ago when I decided to go serum free (used to be a big 'cone abuser) was KCNT. My hair eats it. I don't know why, but I seriously need megaloads of most of their products because they don't stay on the surface. My hair just absorbs them. Great for moisture. Not so great for detangling. Also, I think there's something to the constant running water that helps the detangling process. The same conditioner can be diluted to a great extent and still help with slip. But water helps too. I'll think about ways to explain it more.

For others, I played with going back to cones in December and January. It really is a huge difference in build up. I had to shampoo weekly to compensate for it, where as cone-free I can go 2-3 months without shampooing. I'll go haunt the cowash thread and see if I can find some amino-functionalized cone recs.

For styling, layers are an option, but one that I don't really want. It's on the table if I lose to frustration. I used to think I needed layers to maintain my curl, but then I learned that there just wasn't enough moisture in my routine. I truly believe that my hair will be madly curly to quite a length, and so would only layer to make it more functional. I used to cut about 2/3s of my hair out, which now seems....scary.

As for not wearing other styles.....I'm not against other styles outside of buns and figure 8s at all. Those are just usually what I go to given the amount of time I have and the frequent co-wash requirement. My "high maintenance pretty hair" is actually to wear it down, because one has to get all the factors down to have ridic pretty curls. My usual hair is a riot of whatever turns up that day plus a scrunchie or a hair stick. Other, more intricate hairstyles, are things I might reserve for a Friday when I know I don't have to go in on the weekend. Braids and woven styles require a ton of prep work on my hairtype, in addition to doing the updos themselves, and so like many curlies, I'd actually leave them in for 4-5 days (some leave them in for up to 2 weeks) if I decided to do them.

For those that asked, the work story is insane. But yes, very few headcoverings in our business unless it's of a religious nature.

[Charybdis]

First, CurlyCap, I am in awe of the photo of your "stretched" hair! Amazing! [ETA: to clarify, I'm in awe of the *amount* of hair. I think it looks better unstretched, and your tight curls rock.] Second, if you can do a full CO wash, detangle, and oil application in only 20-30 minutes, that's pretty good!

My husband's hair has about the same amount of curl unstretched as the hair from your stretched photo; his hair is about APL dry and unstretched, and he has a ii thickness with fairly fine hair. So, lots less hair than you. He really likes the Tangle Teezer I bought (for me) a few months ago, and refers to it as "the detangler". He finds it difficult to use it to get through all his hair himself due to the amount of sectioning required, but I can use it to do a complete detangle on him in 10 minutes on either wet or dry hair, as opposed to 30 minutes with fingers and comb. The key is to do really small sections at a time.

Someone upthread mentioned that you might be able to do a complete detangle less often, and I really think this may be true; a full detangle once a week is enough for my DH's hair, and he wets it down in the shower every day. Also, on days when you don't have any kind of gel in your hair or other hard-hold product, you might try detangling dry; I know it turns curly hair into an enormous floaty poofball, but for my DH's hair it is easier to unpick tangles on dry hair because the hair is less stretchy and the strands don't grab each other as much. In fact, that is the exact reason I've stopped using any kind of gel on my hair; I just find it too much of a pain to detangle wet hair past BSL.

Hope you find some tweaks to your routine that help!

[CurlyCap]

Update!

So many people pitched in that I feel it's only right to leave an update as I tweak and improve my routine. Here are the latest changes:

1. Upgraded my conditioner
Suave just isn't going to cut it anymore. I doubt it will even work as a leave-in. So now I'm using heavier conditioners, things like Yes to Carrots and Biolage Conditioning Balm. Yes to Carrots seems to have the moisture my hair is craving and The Balm has the slip. Neither are HG conditioners to me, but they tell me that it's definitely time to move in a different direction. As for leave-ins, I've definitely up'd the amount of oil applied daily. And while butters used to be an optional treat, they are now a requirement. So leave-in is usually oil, butter, then conditioner (preferably a heavy one). Despite all these changes, my hair looks exactly the same dry! Lol.

2. I just condition and separate clumps. No time for detangling.
So it has become apparent that detangling my hair gently is going to take a considerable amount of time I don't have on a daily basis. However, I co-wash every night because of the gunky work conditions. So now I jump in, saturate my hair with conditioner, separate the major clumps (maybe 20 around my head), and tease out any mats that are threatening to form. Then it's rinse, ACV rinse, and out. Back to my 5-10 minute daily hair routine, which is manageable for me.

3. My hair will dread if I don't thoroughly detangle and remove sheds once a week.
It seems once a week is the best detangle frequency for me. I recently pushed it to 1.5 weeks and found that every curl ended in a tiny mat made up of a one long shed hair wrapped around the base of the clump. Sigh.

4. My hair hates the classic tangle teezer and aquasplash, but loves the compact.
I now detangle my hair with the compact tangle teezer. The comb and brush have been retired. The compact lets me work one clump at a time and not accidentally drag in hair from other clumps. The result is minimal hair loss and breakage. I'm actually a little shocked at how little hair is shed and ends up in the TT. It's less that I've ever seen with a comb or brush.

5. I think I realize the cause of sudden frustration: It's spring.
I realized after my OP that it was actually the middle of spring. It's been so cold here that in my head it was still winter. But my growth shoots up in the spring to about 2.5" a month. So, yes, my hair HAD suddenly become a ton longer and it makes sense that I didn't have time to adjust. In past years, this was a great thing because I wanted more length. But this year it threw me for a loop. And folks? CurlyCap is now at BCL. lol.

Thanks for the help everyone. I'm feeling much more in charge of my hair now. I'll update if I get closer to a standard routine and update my routine in my blog.

Hugs!

[Micayla47]

Holy shanoly CurlyCap! Amazing length and curls :) Sorry I didn't read the whole post, I just wanted to stop by and comment on the picture :)

[ErinLeigh]

That's so cool you updated. I just came here to ask how things were going.
It is interesting what you say about the compact TT. I have read before the bristles are different. Is that true?

I am glad to see things are improving and that you found some insight onto what was changing as well as found some tweaks to help. I imagine you know your hair well enough the tweaks came naturally once you thought about a little more. I am also glad you didn't need to cut. I was really concerned as I figured if you were in crisis with all your knowledge then what on the world was going to help!? It just shows that even the most formed routines can need updated as hair changes and evolves. Just when you think you tried all you can..there can still be a few adjustments that can make a difference. Reminds me to always be open to ideas if I need to be.

I feel you on hating to give up the cheap conditioners but it was worth it to me too to just pay more to work with my hairs needs. When I started cowashing I used cheap conditioners and it didn't work. I almost didn't stick with it. My hair is naturally dry (and damaged) and I needed more. I started mixing the conditioner with honey just to make it workable. Eventually I figured out I just need to use a richer conditioner to wash (for me that is a cleansing conditioner) then follow that with a heavy conditioner. Once I started doing that the moisture retention was great. I didn't even think of the Suave no longer being enough for you. I always assumed I am just odd man for not being able to make the lighter conditioners work and chalked it up to my hair being so damaged.

While I am doing my sleep deprived ramble, may I ask something? What made you choose the order of the oil, butter, leave in conditioner? I am still trying to figure that one out for myself so any input on why that particular order works would be helpful. I see LOC, LCO, OLC and all kind of variations in different applications. I am still playing around with the order to what works best for so I am interested in how others decide.. Right now my order is leave in conditioner, oil, butter. Does the conditioner on top help with detangling better for you?

[veryhairyfairy]

Update!

So many people pitched in that I feel it's only right to leave an update as I tweak and improve my routine. Here are the latest changes:

1. Upgraded my conditioner
Suave just isn't going to cut it anymore. I doubt it will even work as a leave-in. So now I'm using heavier conditioners, things like Yes to Carrots and Biolage Conditioning Balm. Yes to Carrots seems to have the moisture my hair is craving and The Balm has the slip. Neither are HG conditioners to me, but they tell me that it's definitely time to move in a different direction. As for leave-ins, I've definitely up'd the amount of oil applied daily. And while butters used to be an optional treat, they are now a requirement. So leave-in is usually oil, butter, then conditioner (preferably a heavy one). Despite all these changes, my hair looks exactly the same dry! Lol.

<snip> :)

5. I think I realize the cause of sudden frustration: It's spring.
I realized after my OP that it was actually the middle of spring. It's been so cold here that in my head it was still winter. But my growth shoots up in the spring to about 2.5" a month. So, yes, my hair HAD suddenly become a ton longer and it makes sense that I didn't have time to adjust. In past years, this was a great thing because I wanted more length. But this year it threw me for a loop. And folks? CurlyCap is now at BCL. lol.

Thanks for the help everyone. I'm feeling much more in charge of my hair now. I'll update if I get closer to a standard routine and update my routine in my blog.

Hugs!

WOW! Congrats on your uber long hair!!! :cheer:

I wanted to jump in with a conditioner rec because I used to swear by Suave (and then found biolage balm and thought it was even better), but then I started using a behentrimonium methosulfate/cetearyl alcohol concentrate that makes an unbelievably slippy conditioner.
I got a small sample on eBay and have been using it almost exclusively for several months. I recently used some old Suave because I didn't have time to make a batch of 'the good stuff', and it wasn't nearly as nice as I remembered!

So I don't know if you have time or want to make conditioner once a week, but I thought I'd throw that out there because you can make it as heavy or as light as you want by adding more or less oil. :)

Glad you're finding a more sane routine, I hope you find your HG conditioner! :flower:

[lapushka]

5. I think I realize the cause of sudden frustration: It's spring.
I realized after my OP that it was actually the middle of spring. It's been so cold here that in my head it was still winter. But my growth shoots up in the spring to about 2.5" a month. So, yes, my hair HAD suddenly become a ton longer and it makes sense that I didn't have time to adjust. In past years, this was a great thing because I wanted more length. But this year it threw me for a loop. And folks? CurlyCap is now at BCL. lol.

In the past, when I was above BSL, spring was the season my hands (err head :lol:) started itching for change! Good you caught that in time! Congrats on BCL!

[Unicorn]

I'm glad you've found a solution CurlyCap. I'm afraid I had no useful advise to offer, but I have been following the thread. BCL!!! :cheer:

Unicorn

[MandyBeth]

Cheap works if you don't mind the detangle time. Minion has hair that's way too snarl prone, so it's daily here.

Sally's knockoff of the balm works as well here and it's nicely in a bottle so it's way easier to use.

The compact TT is going to be required for detangling honestly. I've yet to find a comb that works on my minion with similar curls. They just don't get to all the little looped around pre tangles.

[CurlyCap]

WOW! Congrats on your uber long hair!!! :cheer:

I wanted to jump in with a conditioner rec because I used to swear by Suave (and then found biolage balm and thought it was even better), but then I started using a behentrimonium methosulfate/cetearyl alcohol concentrate that makes an unbelievably slippy conditioner.
I got a small sample on eBay and have been using it almost exclusively for several months. I recently used some old Suave because I didn't have time to make a batch of 'the good stuff', and it wasn't nearly as nice as I remembered!

So I don't know if you have time or want to make conditioner once a week, but I thought I'd throw that out there because you can make it as heavy or as light as you want by adding more or less oil. :)

Glad you're finding a more sane routine, I hope you find your HG conditioner! :flower:

Thanks so much for the rec! I'd DEFINITELY be interested in something I can buy in concentrate. I use up so much conditioner its embarrassing, so it'll be nice not to have to go somewhere and buy 10 bottles of product. Could you reply with a specific brand name or shop I can buy the concentrate from?

[CurlyCap]

ErinLeigh,

I wish I could tell you the science behind my oil, butter, conditioner routine...but I can't. I can tell you what bothers me about doing it any other way and hopefully that will help you come to a routine of your own.

First, my hair will absorb a TON of oil. It is very oil hungry and I can easily tip an EVOO bottle over my head, pour, and come back a few hours later to find it's all been absorbed. The problem is that it takes TIME to absorb the oil, and in the meantime I run the risk of smearing oil all over my clothes and furniture. So when I do a deep treatment, it's all contained with a shower cap. In day to day life, I choose to contain the oil with a heavy application of conditioner.

Why conditioner? Well, I also use a LOT of leave-in conditioner. Like, multiple palmfuls. So when I apply oil before conditioner, the conditioner goes on so thick that the oil has no opportunity to rub off on anything. It's trapped by the hair, there is conditioner on top, and it can't escape to cause trouble. Ie, if you touch my hair after I apply oil, even if it's damp, it just feels oily. If you touch my hair after oil --> conditioner, it just feels damp. And then I can let it dry and I've noticed no stains on my clothes or furniture.

I have learned over time to stick butters between the oil and conditioner. Mostly because the butter will blend in with the oil covered hair but will slip right off the conditioner. But oddly, conditioner (enough of it) will sit on top of an even coating of butter. This of course isn't a hard and fast rule. I have occasionally been lazy and just slapped some heated shea butter on my head...but when I do that it acts more like a styling product (containing frizzies) than something that actually helps to keep the moisture level up. Also, I've noticed that if I put the butter on top of the conditioner, then the conditioner can dry is funny ways. For example, the curl may not be able to spring up to it's full potential, almost as if I put gel on my hair instead of conditioner. Since I like to wear my hair as curly as possible, that was a no-go for me.

Hope that helps! If any of it is unclear or you want further clarification, just ask. In "real life", I don't talk this much about the details of my routine, so it can be a bit tricky to explain experiences and reasoning.

[starlamelissa]

maybe your hair needs a silicone conditioner, especially targeted toward detangling? pantene makes a deep conditioner marketed to women of color, i found it detangled and left a soft coating that protected my hair. I hear good things about herbal essences hello hydration amoungst curlies, but I havent bought it to see if thats all just hype.

Also- a story!

Yesterday my neighbor's daughter came over to play. She is 4, and has a head of curls that looks very similar to yours. I was getting ready for the day, and I went to the bathroom to grab my paddle brush to brush my hair. And when she saw the hairbrush, gave me a look of utter TERROR. I laughed and told her I was going to brush MY hair, not Hers. She said "whew!" audibly. LOL

[Nadine <3]

Ii like Garnier Fructis Hydra recharge conditioner. It has water soluble cones in it and I find it makes my hair SUPER slippery. I use it if I want to wear my hair down or go swimming or something :)

[patienceneeded]

Your hair is beautiful! Definitely not the kind of hair I am used to caring for, so I don't think I'll be of much help. Perhaps a small trim and then seeing if that helps in the long run? Amazing curls though!

[Annibelle]

I have no tips, but I just wanted to tell you how amazing your hair is looking lately!!!!!!!! I mean, it has always looked good, even very short, but wow!

[Jennah]

CurlyCap,

I think that you have to avoid washing your hair every-single-day. I think that is the main reason why the caring seems overwhelming.

You say that your work makes your hair dirty and smelly, but you are going to have to wear a turban and wrap your hair with "something". There has to be a way to protect the hair and not wash it or just minimally so.

You say that headcovers are for religious reasons, well, you will have to make your case that you need the headcover still.

Good luck!

[ErinLeigh]

ErinLeigh,

I wish I could tell you the science behind my oil, butter, conditioner routine...but I can't. I can tell you what bothers me about doing it any other way and hopefully that will help you come to a routine of your own.

First, my hair will absorb a TON of oil. It is very oil hungry and I can easily tip an EVOO bottle over my head, pour, and come back a few hours later to find it's all been absorbed. The problem is that it takes TIME to absorb the oil, and in the meantime I run the risk of smearing oil all over my clothes and furniture. So when I do a deep treatment, it's all contained with a shower cap. In day to day life, I choose to contain the oil with a heavy application of conditioner.

Why conditioner? Well, I also use a LOT of leave-in conditioner. Like, multiple palmfuls. So when I apply oil before conditioner, the conditioner goes on so thick that the oil has no opportunity to rub off on anything. It's trapped by the hair, there is conditioner on top, and it can't escape to cause trouble. Ie, if you touch my hair after I apply oil, even if it's damp, it just feels oily. If you touch my hair after oil --> conditioner, it just feels damp. And then I can let it dry and I've noticed no stains on my clothes or furniture.

I have learned over time to stick butters between the oil and conditioner. Mostly because the butter will blend in with the oil covered hair but will slip right off the conditioner. But oddly, conditioner (enough of it) will sit on top of an even coating of butter. This of course isn't a hard and fast rule. I have occasionally been lazy and just slapped some heated shea butter on my head...but when I do that it acts more like a styling product (containing frizzies) than something that actually helps to keep the moisture level up. Also, I've noticed that if I put the butter on top of the conditioner, then the conditioner can dry is funny ways. For example, the curl may not be able to spring up to it's full potential, almost as if I put gel on my hair instead of conditioner. Since I like to wear my hair as curly as possible, that was a no-go for me.

Hope that helps! If any of it is unclear or you want further clarification, just ask. In "real life", I don't talk this much about the details of my routine, so it can be a bit tricky to explain experiences and reasoning.

That was actually super detailed and helpful. Thank you very much. I can see exactly why that works for you. It was explained well. I actually like hearing all the points of something. It makes me "see" it instead of read it. And of course for fun I will be trying that myself :)

I am a daily washer so moisture is really important to my routine. I know its not deemed the best for hair but I know I will never change it. Thank goodness for cowashing.

I knew a 14 year old boy 25 years ago who cowashed daily. It was unheard of back then (at least to me) He had the most luscious shiny, beautiful hair I had ever seen . Shampoo irritated his scalp so he learned to wash with conditioner. He was a clean freak so lots of times showered/washed twice a day even. He was terrified of people finding out he cowashed as he worried he would be teased for seeming unclean by not using poo. Gosh his hair was the deepest, softest black and so moisturized. It felt like bunny hair.. I adored it. Oh, I guess the point to my ramble..I don't see cowashing daily as bad. Its just infusing more moisture every day. If I skip washes my hair gets dry and pissed, not greasy.

[veryhairyfairy]

Thanks so much for the rec! I'd DEFINITELY be interested in something I can buy in concentrate. I use up so much conditioner its embarrassing, so it'll be nice not to have to go somewhere and buy 10 bottles of product. Could you reply with a specific brand name or shop I can buy the concentrate from?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BTMS-Behentrimonium-Methosulfate-Emulsifying-Conditioner-/300664529512?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item460100a268

You can also buy it from soap making sites and whatnot. It's super easy to make, or I wouldn't recommend it. (and it ends up being maybe twice as 'expensive' as Suave, so still affordable for my broke college student budget.)

Basically-
Melt in a small sauce pan on very low heat (or top part of double boiler if you roll like that):
4 teaspoons of concentrate
0-infinity* teaspoons of your oil of choice (shea butter does NOT work)

Boil 1 cup of water separately.

When concentrate/oil mix is completely melted, slowly stir the boiling water into the melted concentrate/oil.
Cover while cooling to prevent film on top, and store in the fridge for up to two weeks.
I would say that this 1 cup batch lasts 3 washes for me, or equals about 1/3 of a suave bottle.

*I didn't like the no oil batch I made, but you might. I've used as much as 6 teaspoons in a batch, but it weighed my hair down just a touch (might be perfect for your oil loving hair!).
Usually I use 2-3 teaspoons of oil per 4 teaspoons of concentrate.


This stuff is super forgiving of all user error. I don't measure carefully or worry about holding heating phases and whatnot, and I have yet to make a batch that wasn't awesome (excepting the shea butter one). I also double and triple the batch with no trouble, I can't sing it's praises highly enough!

:flower: