help with hair issues! Permed hair my whole life!

[dimocks04]

I am new to this forum, so glad I came across it!! I am needing some help. I am 32 and since I was 15 I have been getting perms, normally about every 3-4 years I will get them. I do not cut my hair (and that is not an option if you suggest that). I have just recently been concerned about my hair. I have had very thick hair growing up and my hair is right below my behind. about 4-5 years ago I could really tell that my hair just wasn't thick like it used to be, but I was told with age that can happen (happened to my mom and sister). So I just recently started getting concerned about my hair and decided I need to change this around. My routine has ALWAYS been.. Wash my hair before I go to church etc (normally I wash it 2-3 times a week) and as soon as I get out of the shower I put spray gel all on it to make my curls looks good (my perms have always stayed in a long time) and then blow dry it (which I know is a big no no, but I have always). WELL... My ends look terrible, and my hair falls out alot now when washing it and just during the days etc (has been for awhile, but I am just not trying to do something about it). Yesterday i started taking biotin vitamins, and I bought some new hair care products (organzic Anti breakage keratin oil shampoo and conditioner, and coconut milk)

SO, I am need HELP!!!!!
I like my curl look, but tired of damaging my hair. For those of you who have had perms for years you know your hair just don't "go back to normal" .. I am going to try to vow to never get a perm again, if my hair can look pretty without on again! Any recommendations? I also bought coconut oil yesterday from the local vitamin store and was going to try to put some in my hair before bed and sleep with it in and wash out the next morning (I read online where that is good, but have not done it yet). I also washed it yesterday for the first time in organzic Anti breakage keratin oil shampoo and conditioner. Also bought coconut milk and sprayed it on all the ends of my hair, after using this stuff 1 time I was really amazed!

Also wanted to ask about brushing/combing. with always having a perm I never "brushed" my hair, I have always waited until I took a shower and put conditioner in and combed it with a large tooth comb to get out all tangles, then rinsed the conditioner out. but let me tell you ALOT of hair comes out. What is the best thing to do??? comb/pick it when it is dry? or what?

I sure could use help! I am praying that my hair will grow back healthy and strong, but I know I need to learn to do it the right way!

Thanks everyone in advance!

[GoddesJourney]

Have you tried no heat/chemical curling methods like rag curls? What is your natural hair texture (straight, wavy, curly…fine, medium, coarse). Age alone shouldn't do it but other things can (especially since you're still quite young). I know in my family, a lot of the women develop thyroid issues later in life, so it's not "age" that does it but other medical issues that appear with age due to genetics. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for myself here. If you know much about your family history, that may help you. It wouldn't hurt to scalp massage for a few minutes before going to bed to increase the circulation. A healthy scalp produces healthy hair.

Don't get discouraged. Your hair is very long, so anything you do now to improve it may not be too noticeable for a year or two as it starts to grow into the rest of your hair. That doesn't mean it's not improving. Hair is all about finding a good routine that your body likes, and having patience. There are a lot of people on this forum with a lot of useful information.

[dimocks04]

Well it used to be just a little bit of wave before I started perming it. and I think I would say Medium

[cranberrymoonz]

Welcome to the board!

I think you are well on your way. It is great that you are willing to give up perming, because that is very damaging. I also want to recommend protective hairstyles. The right buns can make a great differance.

Coconut oil is great. You can soak your hair in it before washing, or you can use a little bit on the ends afterwards.

Combing in the shower is absolutely fine. Wet hair is more fragile then dry hair, so most straight haired girls comb their hair dry, but it makes curls poof. In fact, if you use any hold products like gel or hairspray, combing hair dry is actually more damaging. If you don't use product, you could choose to comb before you step into the shower, otherwise you can just do what you are doing allready.

Hair vitamins can improve the quality of hair a great deal, it only works on the new growing hair though, so it probably won't have effect on your ends.

The bad news is, if damage is allready done, there is no way to get healthy ends again, since cutting is not an option and splits can only be removed by cutting. You can inprove the look and feel of your hair, though. The best of luck!

ETA: thinning may be caused by many things. It may be health or age like mentioned before. You could also just have hit your terminal length.

[dimocks04]

Here are a couple pictures of my hair, I will take some better ones soon!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203162603054475&set=a.10203162559133377.1073741861.1489482394&type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1753236439263&set=a.1753235159231.126688.1489482394&type=3&theater

[meteor]

^^ This! Cranberrymoonz already gave you lots of great advice.
Since you are ready to give up the perming (excellent decision, by the way!), you might want to explore the Curly Girl Method. It works on curlies and wavies to encourage and enhance your natural curls and waves - conditioner only washes, scrunching, flaxseed/aloe gel for curl definition, etc.
You might want to join the Wurly & Curly Thread for more ideas: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=369

[dimocks04]

Well, I guess my pictures did not work, I can not figure out to get them posted here since they are all stored in "my pictures" and I have no "url" for them! Anyways...

I realize dead ends are just that... dead ends! :) and I can not make them disappear without cutting them, but I can help them look alittle better than what they are at the moment. Just using the coconut milk oil stuff 1 time really made a big difference in they way they looked and felt, I was amazed!...

[meteor]

I realize dead ends are just that... dead ends! :) and I can not make them disappear without cutting them, but I can help them look alittle better than what they are at the moment. Just using the coconut milk oil stuff 1 time really made a big difference in they way they looked and felt, I was amazed!...
Yes, you don't need to cut that hair just because it's damaged, just give it extra TLC, and oiling is really excellent.
Damaged hair is porous, so needs to be patch-repaired with conditioners and it absorbs more ingredients.

Beneficial ingredients are penetrative oils (coconut, palm, avocado, olive), hydrolyzed proteins (keratin, silk, wheat, soy, etc) and amino acids, ceramides, 18-MEA, artificial peptides, coating silicones, panthenol (pro-vitamin B5) and some other humectants (glycerin, honey, aloe, etc) at the right humidity.

When the hair is damaged and porous, it's a good idea to use cationic surfactants (found in conditioners) more and anionic surfactants (found in most shampoos) a bit less, so CO washing is a safe thing to try.

[LaurelSpring]

You might want to read The Curly Girl Handbook. The suggestions in this book really helped me pump up my hair and get some curls where there were no curls before. I also use some of the heatless methods that I have found here and on Youtube and I love my steam rollers also.

[dimocks04]

Here are a couple pictures I found on my computer of my hair. I know they are not up close, but you get the idea!

http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv%3A%3B5%3C%3 Dot%3E3%3B47%3D38%3A%3D525%3DXROQDF%3E2834%3A%3A67 2%3B258ot1lsi

http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv4%3B6%3A%3Do t%3E3%3B47%3D38%3A%3D525%3DXROQDF%3E2834%3A9%3B469 258ot1lsi

[lapushka]

Looking at the b/w picture, I see on the right side of your head that you might be wavy (if that's your natural texture). In which case I too second the book by Lorraine Massey on the curly girl method.

[dimocks04]

I have alittle natural wave, but my hair still has lots of curls from perm... my perms stay in a long time (not at the top where new growth is, but in the back! .. Going to try a coconut oil treatment today for the first time!

[UP Lisa]

Is your hair coming out from the roots, or is it just breaking off?

[dimocks04]

just breaking off!

[Micayla47]

Dimocks04, you mentioned using products with keratin. This is protein and usually needs to be used sparingly (once a week or less) and balanced with moisture (products that say "hydrating"). In my experience, the coconut oil is excellent for protecting the delicate, damaged ends. Also, you say your hair is breaking off, as opposed to falling out at the roots. There is a way to discern whether your hair needs more protein or more moisture. I'm paraphrasing, so you might want to do a search on here or check out the "Articles" section. When your hair is wet, take strand that has fallen out/broken off and stretch it. If it snaps straight away, it needs moisture. If it stretches out and doesn't retract to its normal shape, then it needs protein. My hair is super over-processed (from before LHC) and I find that I need a good protein treatment once a month and lots of moisture the rest of the time. Like you, I wash/condition 2-3 times a week. I wish you luck in restoring your beautiful hair!!!

[dimocks04]

I had no idea about keratin, i just seen the bottle said "anti breakage" and I knew I was experiencing alot of breakage lately.. and I can almost guarantee you it is from using the blow dryer so much (which I am trying to get away from all together)
Dimocks04, you mentioned using products with keratin. This is protein and usually needs to be used sparingly (once a week or less) and balanced with moisture (products that say "hydrating"). In my experience, the coconut oil is excellent for protecting the delicate, damaged ends. Also, you say your hair is breaking off, as opposed to falling out at the roots. There is a way to discern whether your hair needs more protein or more moisture. I'm paraphrasing, so you might want to do a search on here or check out the "Articles" section. When your hair is wet, take strand that has fallen out/broken off and stretch it. If it snaps straight away, it needs moisture. If it stretches out and doesn't retract to its normal shape, then it needs protein. My hair is super over-processed (from before LHC) and I find that I need a good protein treatment once a month and lots of moisture the rest of the time. Like you, I wash/condition 2-3 times a week. I wish you luck in restoring your beautiful hair!!!

[molljo]

When you say that cutting isn't an option, do you mean that you won't chop your hair off, or you won't put scissors to your hair at all? I ask because I understand that you'd like to keep your length, and if there's no religious/cultural reason that prevents you from cutting the hair, I do think at least doing an S&D (search and destroy) session would help you a lot. Damage travels, and if your hair is breaking off at such a rate, the splits will definitely move up the shaft and possibly do further harm to healthy hair. If you want to try this route, sit in a sunny spot with VERY sharp scissors that are only used for hair. You might lose some thickness, but this will absolutely help prevent future breakage.

Good luck on your hair journey. You have a long way ahead of you, but this forum is a treasure trove of knowledge. I suggest reading past threads that deal with your type of hair and how to deal with perm damage. You aren't alone, and there have been many, many people who've gone through what you're going through and have come out on the other side with gorgeous, healthy long hair.

[dimocks04]

I do not cut my hair at all, to my religious beliefs :) ... thank you, I have not been a part of this site very long at all and I am amazed at all the knowledge I have already received!! What a blessing!
When you say that cutting isn't an option, do you mean that you won't chop your hair off, or you won't put scissors to your hair at all? I ask because I understand that you'd like to keep your length, and if there's no religious/cultural reason that prevents you from cutting the hair, I do think at least doing an S&D (search and destroy) session would help you a lot. Damage travels, and if your hair is breaking off at such a rate, the splits will definitely move up the shaft and possibly do further harm to healthy hair. If you want to try this route, sit in a sunny spot with VERY sharp scissors that are only used for hair. You might lose some thickness, but this will absolutely help prevent future breakage.

Good luck on your hair journey. You have a long way ahead of you, but this forum is a treasure trove of knowledge. I suggest reading past threads that deal with your type of hair and how to deal with perm damage. You aren't alone, and there have been many, many people who've gone through what you're going through and have come out on the other side with gorgeous, healthy long hair.

[jeanniet]

I think it's the perms that are causing the damage, and then blow drying is just adding to it. The damage/breakage is why your hair is thinning--generally if there is age-related thinning, it would be post-menopause. The bad news is that you will have to grow the damage out; you can't fix damage, although you can improve the look and feel of it. And since you don't cut your hair, eventually the damaged hairs will either shed out at the end of their natural cycle, or break off. But you can certainly have undamaged hair, if you're patient enough!

Try blow drying on a cooler setting, and don't brush while drying. Brushing stretches and damages the hair further. Curly Girl is a good idea as well.

[dimocks04]

I just got out of the shower after washing my hair and I just wanted to cry because my hair is really long in the back but on both sides of my hair the hair is broken and hardly reaches my shoulders and is getting very thin on the sides! The back I am not noticing alot, but both sides i can really tell!

[dimocks04]

my husband made mention the other day that my hair is so thin on the sides of my hair (I had it pulled up some)... and he was right when I looked!

[lapushka]

Just like jeanniet, I think the perming is catching up with you (and honestly, if you're going to keep perming, might as well cut your hair for all it's worth, because it is the same thing). I'd let up on the perming, grow the hair out, and continue to pamper it. Also agree that blowdrying damaged hair is not the *best* idea, but if you must, use a cool to warm setting (if you can hold your hand in the airstream without it burning even after a while, then it's fine).

A few years ago, I got my hair permed twice (within a span of 4 months I had it done again). My hair was riddled with white dots, and of course that meant breakage (after some time). I still grew it out to hip length from shoulder, and because I had had some breakage along the way, we decided to S&D at hip+ length. I had to have it cut back to BSL length because of excessive thinning on the hemline. So many white dots/breakage. So I can imagine what it must be like for you, with more perming sessions done!

[dimocks04]

I have no plans on getting another perm!!!! I am trying to really help my hair!

[jeanniet]

I think if you stop perming, it will make a big difference as the new hair grows out. You'll have to wait a while to see your thickness coming back, but it will happen, and in 3-4 years you will have grown the permed hair out completely and should see 100% improvement.

[Vanilla]

I have fine/medium and somewhat delicate hair, and I had two spiral perms when I was in college. My hair was about hip length then.

Once I had decided I wanted to start growing the perms out, I damaged my hair further by blow drying. I was straightening by blow drying with a round brush twice a week to blend the perm in with my natural texture (slight wave, but mostly straight). My hair started breaking off, just like you are describing.

I was savvy on protein/moisture treatments even back then, and nothing that I did truly helped my hair to recover from the perm damage. I tried to save my length as much as I could, but my hair was crumbling so badly that I had quite a few uneven spots where there were chunks of my hair missing.

I became so self conscious about it, that I ended up cutting to shoulder length and progressively cut out the damage every few months. My hair only became healthy and I had an even hemline after all of the perm damage was gone and cut off.

I know you don't cut your hair for religious reasons, but like lapuska said, if you continue to perm/damage your hair, it will be essentially the same as cutting, but you won't have control over what your hemline will look like.

Even if you treat your hair very gently from now on, we won't be able to predict how much additional hair you will be losing to breakage because of your past damage. Trimming might help to even up your hemline a little as you are starting to take better care of your hair.

I hope this helps you.

[swearnsue]

Your hair looks good with the curls. I suggest giving yourself braid waves to replace the perms. My siggy shows my thin hair with braid waves but when hubby took the picture I was brushing and brushing thinking I was making me hair look better, but instead it just poofed it out! So braid waves look better than my example!

[dimocks04]

I am hoping with the combination of coconut oil and Keratin oil shampoo and conditioner and then also taking biotin and massaging scalp... And no more blow drying or pony tail holders, that the healing will begin!!! :)

[lapushka]

I am hoping with the combination of coconut oil and Keratin oil shampoo and conditioner and then also taking biotin and massaging scalp... And no more blow drying or pony tail holders, that the healing will begin!!! :)

I hope you don't get to experience more breakage, but - even if you don't want to trim - S&D sessions should be possible, no? Or not? S&D means Search & Destroy. You just snip individual hairs that are damaged so as not to touch the length of the hair.

[dimocks04]

I'm sorry I do not cut my hair in any way! :)
I hope you don't get to experience more breakage, but - even if you don't want to trim - S&D sessions should be possible, no? Or not? S&D means Search & Destroy. You just snip individual hairs that are damaged so as not to touch the length of the hair.

[GoddesJourney]

No worries, then. It's just a matter of waiting it out and learning from your experiences. :)

[excentricat]

If you don't wear your hair up often, starting to do so could be helpful too. There are fewer things to cause damage, tangles, and breakage when your hair spends most of it's time in a bun. A lot of us around here like to use hairsticks, forks, amish pins, or spin pins to put our hair up.

[dimocks04]

Thank you ladies! I am trying to wear it up more often then I used to, so hopefully that will help!

[ichosethis]

If you don't wear your hair up often, starting to do so could be helpful too. There are fewer things to cause damage, tangles, and breakage when your hair spends most of it's time in a bun. A lot of us around here like to use hairsticks, forks, amish pins, or spin pins to put our hair up.

This is a good idea, but you may want to consider using buns that don't require twisting or loosely braiding your bun. You're already experience breakage and twisting the hair won't help you. Also, buns are great when you're putting oil in your hair for several hours!

[Firefox7275]

Definitely try the Curly Girl method, should work for your wavy virgin growth and curly permed hair. You may be surprised how wavy your new growth actually is. Absolutely use coconut oil and consider hydrolysed protein treatments: gelatin is the only rich natural source if you are into using food items, otherwise get a commercial product.

[catamonica]

I wear a low braided bun 4 1/2 days. Wash one day a week one scalp scrub. If you wear it up a few days, your ends will be protected. I have no split ends. When I wear it down on
weekends, it is wavy from the braid. If you wear it in a damp braid at night, you will have wavy hair in the morning. Don't perm it anymore. I used to do that. And stopped doing it. And braided it instead. Your hair is beautiful! Hop this helps.

[jeanniet]

I think you're on the right track, and your new growth should be nice and healthy. I just want to make sure that you understand that this is going to be mostly a matter of patience while you grow the permed hair out and wait for it to either shed or break off. Not cutting hair in any way is of course a personal choice, but it does mean that there's no way to remove the damage except through natural means. So don't get discouraged!