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jg260290
March 5th, 2014, 03:25 PM
Hi everyone! I apologize if this has been discussed before but I really need some help :(

I have been trying to grow my hair for years but no matter what I do I seem to get tones of damage by the time I reach shoulder length and always end up cutting back to chin and starting over :( my hair currently still has bleach damage from mid last year where a bleach happy hairdresser went from black to light blonde in one trip to the salon (3 bleach baths and 2 full bleaches followed by toner!) A month later she proceeded to dye a permanent dark chocolate brown over the top which bled out and needed redoing in a couple of weeks. After that I gave up and did a box semi which I was happy enough with to leave it well alone. About a month ago I had my hair trimmed from collarbone to just above shoulders to get rid of some damage and it has just reached collarbone again (barely) and yesterday a well meaning hairdresser did a keratin straightening treatment to "heal my hair". Well... my relatively healthy (no splits but still dry and damaged) hair now has splits everywhere and is breaking off left right and Centre. I'm devastated! So I have decided to go virgin for the first time in 10 years to try and reach my length goal of waistline, my question is, is the big chop the only way to get my hair healthy again?

Anje
March 5th, 2014, 03:46 PM
You can probably salvage some of it, but it'll always be damaged hair til it grows out and is cut away.

Honestly, my first and foremost advice would be to stay far, far away from hairdressers. There are some good ones out there, but you seem to be a target for damaging treatments. Ideally, let your hair be its natural color, or dye it darker with a dye that just deposits color (Manic Panic, Adore, henna, those sorts of things rather than box dyes that contain peroxide and/or ammonia).

How would you describe your hair when it's wet now? Is it stretchy? Does it snap off without stretching at all? That helps determine the sorts of treatments you'll need try to balance it with. But it'll be a balancing act, almost certainly.

A common favorite treatment which you might find useful right now is coconut oil. Look for the edible stuff, not something geared toward hair. It'll probably be solid. Scrape a little bit up with a fingernail, melt it on your hands so they're slightly shiny, and dab it on your hair a bit. Not too much, or it'll look oily -- this is a less-is-more sort of thing. Leave it in until your next wash. Many people credit it with saving their hair. (Note: some people find it makes their hair start to feel crispy. If that's you, try it on damp hair. If it still does it, coconut oil isn't for you. And that's OK too. Everyone's hair is different.)

jg260290
March 5th, 2014, 03:57 PM
Thanks for replying :) I have been doing deep conditioning pre poo with the coconut oil for a couple of months now and cut my washing down to 3 times a week from every day. It's just disappointing when I have just started to notice some nice healthy growth :( my hair is now so damaged I don't know if it's fixable (splits on every strand, white spots everywhere and wirey broken strands all over the place) I think a big chop might be the best place to start..... and a new hairdresser haha

jg260290
March 5th, 2014, 04:08 PM
I guess my next question would be, do I get the sulphate free Shampoo and conditioner like the hairdresser told me to (to retain the keratin) or do I try to get as much of it out as I can with regular shampoos?

Anje
March 5th, 2014, 04:18 PM
I don't have any experience with the keratin straightening treatment things, to be honest. I suspect that what remains bound to your hair is probably doing more good than harm, though. (It's not the keratin but some of the other chemicals in the process that break down a lot of the chemical bonds in your hair that make these sorts of things really problematic. It's quite similar to a perm.)

Sulfate-free would probably be easier on your hair, depending on what you use. Whether your scalp prefers it, that's for you to figure out. Some people can't make it work, some find they're far happier with it. Ideally, you're mainly applying the shampoo to your scalp anyway, not to the length of your hair. Either way, lots of people find that diluting their shampoo helps them out by reducing the harshness and helping it get to their scalp easier, so do give that a try.

Definitely use plenty of conditioner. If I were you, I'd probably go to town with the silicones, really, to try to keep the hair as protected as possible, and clarify with sulfate shampoo only when the hair starts feeling like the buildup is getting bad.

jg260290
March 5th, 2014, 04:34 PM
Thank you again, your really helping me feel so much better about this :) I've read so much about how to look after my hair the past few months but it all seems Greek to me still haha I've never gone the sulphate free route before so I'm willing to give it a go and luckily in Australia the most raved about one is $3 for a big bottle from the supermarket so it really can't hurt. My aim for today is to get the shampoo, wash this stuff out (it would have been on 24 hours by the time I get a chance with the little one in the house haha) and then go to town with the coconut oil overnight. If I reassess it in the morning after washing and I'm still not happy I will just get the chop done to get rid of the worst of it and then I might try to maintain about shoulder length until I cut away all the dye/chemical damage and then I should (fingers crossed!) Be able to start on my journey to long, beautiful virgin hair!

jeanniet
March 5th, 2014, 04:49 PM
I think it would be best for you to avoid salons, at least until you are able to be firm about what you do and don't want. Keratin treatments do damage your hair; they're certainly not healing. I think you're smart to maintain at a shorter length until you can trim all the damage away. Most of it should be grown out in about a year, and then you can begin to grow it out more, although you'll still have to get regular, small trims to get rid of the remaining damage.

If you want to grow out, the most important things to avoid are bleaching and flat ironing. If you've been doing either or both, that's probably what the problem has been all along. You can do it!

jg260290
March 5th, 2014, 04:51 PM
I thought I should probably elaborate on what the treatment actually was since I don't think it was a keratin that killed my hair but rather the intense heat they needed to use to "fuse" it to my hair. The reason I think it was the heat is because I haven't used heat on my hair for well over 2 years and since hair is made of keratin surely it alone couldn't have damaged my hair this badly.

First step was a clarifying shampoo which was rather painfully roughed into my hair (lots of piling it up, scratching at my scalp and vigorous rubbing to remove any buildup)

Then she blow dried it on HOT to get my hair 80% dry before ripping through it with a fine tooth comb to remove a bird nest of tangles.

Then the keratin was "painted" on strand by strand almost to coat the hair.

Another blast of burning heat from the hairdryer and ripping through knots with the fine tooth comb to blow dry it straight.

Then each 2 inch section was passed through a 230 degree C (450 degree F) flat iron about 20 times (until it damn near burned my skin to touch it) before more ripping from the fine tooth comb.

At the point my hair was "crispy" instead of "soft and smooth" like she promised with LOTS of breakage and and poof to it.

Then she told me that instead of being $15 (the protein treatment I asked for which is just a wash, treatment under the steam hood then some moisture treatment) it was going to be $400. I outright refused, showed her the damaged hair and walked out in tears. NEVER EVER GET GET THIS TREATMENT IF YOU WANT HEALTHY HAIR!!

jg260290
March 5th, 2014, 04:53 PM
Thank you so much :) the bleaching was a failed attempt almost 12 months ago to get back to my natural color to grow the dyed hair out and I haven't touched a flat iron in years tho I am a box dye junkie. No more tho! Not a chance, it's not worth it and now I have a gorgeous little girl with hair to die for and I want her to know that natural hair is beautiful no matter what your born with :)

jrmviola
March 5th, 2014, 05:01 PM
If you decide to get a final cut, do so- then go completely cold turkey from the salon and any hair product that's not necessary. At least until you get an idea of what your virgin hair is like with not much on it. Then you might want to just stick with (for example) an oil and one shampoo and one conditioner. Then after a few months you can add in other stuff you want to experiment with :D

~Abi~
March 5th, 2014, 05:09 PM
Well goodness! I don't know anything about keratin myself, but anything like the fine tooth comb+heat+rough hairdresser combo you just described would kill anyone's hair!

Chocowalnut
March 5th, 2014, 05:10 PM
I was in the same spot as you under a year ago. Had tons of bleach damage and hair was in terrible shape. I finally cut most of it off and I'm amazed how healthy my hair is now after letting it grow out and treating it right. Just stay away from bleach and dyes higher than semi permanent. You'll be there before you know it. :)

sumidha
March 5th, 2014, 06:06 PM
Oh dear, I'm sorry to hear that. :(

The big chop is probably not the only way to get your hair healthy again, but many people find it easier than babying the length while trimming off damage. I would recommend this article on growing out damaged hair: http://web.archive.org/web/20120125071723/http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=79

jg260290
March 5th, 2014, 07:04 PM
Thank you all so much :) I have phoned all of my friends with long gorgeous hair and they all (suprisingly) referred me to the same hairdresser haha booked in for "the big chop" tomorrow as well as a lengthy consult to work out a plan for getting rid of the damage and getting to the length I want, and I will be very firm, no heat, no dyes or bleach and to baby my hair as much as she can. Tho considering she has hip length virgin hair herself I will feel better (hopefully) in her hands haha

Firefox7275
March 5th, 2014, 07:35 PM
To be honest it does sound like you need a cute pixie: there are plenty here growing that out.

ErinLeigh
March 5th, 2014, 07:44 PM
keratin fried my hair horribly ( I have pics posted in a thread here called keratin treatment gone wrong )
All hair is different of course but I am happy to share what I did.
This exact may not work for you but of course maybe it can give you hope that if you find your own routine there is a way to come back from some of this.

I did cut some hair off just because I hated the way it felt. It was almost pointless since it was fried all the way up.
I don't regret the cut but regret cutting so much.

I switched from harsher shampoo to cowashes, and sometimes gentle shampoos. I would still clarify every 3 weeks so my deep conditioners would penetrate better but I am a daily washer so it may too often for some.
I went cone free. I did this so my conditioners and oils would absorb better. My opinion and personal experience.

I did SMTs which is mixing cone free/protein conditioner with honey and aloe vera gel and did these often. I chose biolage condition balm GVP generic version from Sally's.
I started using penetrating oils the night before every wash (coconut,olive or avocado)
I would use a good cone free leave in conditioner and then seal in moisture post wash using jojoba, argan or hemp seed ( really up to you which..all help) just 2 drops was plenty. If I wanted something lighter I would mix conditioner with oil and water in a mister bottle and spray it in.


Doing all this really turned things around quickly. Within a month my hair was no longer brittle, snapping and splitting.
It also started to feel smooth and soft and not have the rough damage feel. I color and bleach and this still worked for me.


I just went through this in October. I had cut a lot of hair ( from avatar to signature) and honestly I regret cutting so much so soon. I wish I would have gave the treatment time because it helped so much. A trim will help but do not do anything drastic until you try a few things maybe

woodswanderer
March 5th, 2014, 07:49 PM
I feel so bad for you that the stylist was so abusive to your hair. I wouldn't have paid that either. Common sense is to inform a customer of what exactly is going to be done and at what price ahead of time. Best of luck in your healthy hair journey.

jg260290
March 5th, 2014, 07:58 PM
Thank you everyone for all of your help :) I knew what she was doing yesterday was going to absolutely kill my hair but I guess I just sat there in stunned silence at what she was doing to "heal" it for me! I am going to get the worst cut off tomorrow, maybe 2 inches which will take me back to just brushing shoulder length (I will post some pictures tomorrow so everyone can see the damage) and my plan is sulphate free silicone free s/c and heavy pre wash oilings for a month and see where I stand before I decide if I want another trim or if it can wait another month. I think a trim is unavoidable at this stage with hair literally snapping off before my eyes, luckily, other than some minor breakage a couple of inches from the root, it's mostly in the last 1-2 inches that there is the most damage so I can part with that for now :) I will keep you all posted and I've very eager to see what it will all look like both post wash/oiling and post trim

Shibe
March 5th, 2014, 08:12 PM
My question is why you keep going back to this hairdresser? You have the freedom to not go.

If she wrecks your hair once, do not trust her again.

jg260290
March 5th, 2014, 08:31 PM
This was a relatively new hairdresser (not the one that fried my hair with bleach) but I'd only ever seen her for trims, no treatments, and I will not be going back and I will never recommend them to anyone (they are one of the apparently "fancy" chain salons that charge through the nose for everything)

restless
March 5th, 2014, 09:00 PM
Oh man... I dont even know what to say about your salon-experiences :bigeyes: What the hell were they thinking?

If the ends are in such a bad condition that theyre literally snapping off then yeah, it can be a good idea to trim them off. However, before you go and do a big chop, try and save what can be saved by practicing some LHC-tips on the hair. Damaged hair cant be healed but it can look and feel so much better if youre being kind to it. If the tips here dont help then you can always go further and trim some more but Id rather take off too little initially instead of just chopping everything.

For the future Id recommend you to look into doing the cuts and treatments for yourself. This forum contains thousands of threads with tips on how to do your own protein treatments, deep treatments, trims, layers, use of natural products like herbals, oils and honey, kind ways to dye your hair, etc etc. You dont need to go to a salon and pay a fortune only to have your hair ruined. Im not saying that all hairdressers are bad and I do agree that the feeling of going to a salon to get pampered is quite a luxurious one. However Im saying that there are a lot of things you can do by yourself with a nice-looking result.

jg260290
March 5th, 2014, 09:13 PM
I have always been interested in trimming my hair myself but it's always been too short to do effectively and I always find bits I missed or just feel "wrong" and being so short, little mistakes are really obvious (at least to me). I have finally had a chance to wash the treatment out and it didn't feel too bad coming out of the shower when wet but I know the damage is there so I just covered it in coconut oil while it's still wet and put it up in a bun to sit for a few hours until bub goes to bed and I can rinse it out ( just going to co-wash it out so I don't have to shampoo twice in one day) and then let it air dry and assess where I'm at then. So disappointing when these people are supposed to know how to look after hair and they just damage it beyond repair :( I know there are really good and really bad stylists out there, unfortunately I've found the bad ones. Sounds silly but I always go for younger ones and wonder if that's the problem?

hairpleasegrow
March 5th, 2014, 09:33 PM
Honestly, my first and foremost advice would be to stay far, far away from hairdressers.
)

GOOD ADVICE!!!!! :) Stay away from the hairdressers, bad things happen to hair in salons.

Welcome by the way, I'm new here too.

I'm one of those people whose hair doesn't respond well to coconut oil. I use argan oil instead.

Remember if growing long healthy hair was easy, everyone would have it. Well alot more people would have it.... at least.....wouldn't they??? :)

Anyways it is hard (as I'm learning) you just need lots of patience!! research old threads and try some suggestions. A good thread is "hair don'ts" http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=118710 when I started in December this helped me, good luck!!

ErinLeigh
March 6th, 2014, 12:33 AM
Thank you everyone for all of your help :) I knew what she was doing yesterday was going to absolutely kill my hair but I guess I just sat there in stunned silence at what she was doing to "heal" it for me! I am going to get the worst cut off tomorrow, maybe 2 inches which will take me back to just brushing shoulder length (I will post some pictures tomorrow so everyone can see the damage) and my plan is sulphate free silicone free s/c and heavy pre wash oilings for a month and see where I stand before I decide if I want another trim or if it can wait another month. I think a trim is unavoidable at this stage with hair literally snapping off before my eyes, luckily, other than some minor breakage a couple of inches from the root, it's mostly in the last 1-2 inches that there is the most damage so I can part with that for now :) I will keep you all posted and I've very eager to see what it will all look like both post wash/oiling and post trim

Thats a good plan. And condition the heck out of it. When it fries like that I think its a combo of protein overload and bad technique. That iron is like 450 degrees and some if those stylists just yank it thru pass after pass and you can hear the hair snapping while its happening, and see the product melting in. Ugh.

I am happy to hear yours is really only on last few inches. Mine went up pretty high, and I had that breakage were the little hair were sticking up from my roots all bent.

My signature pic was taken one month after the damage and you can see how its no longer visible. There is zero product on my hair in that pic. The pics where it was fried though, you will see I know exactly what you are talking about. Its so awful when these things happen. I too was told it would repair my hair. The damaged the better they say! Its crazy really. They just don't know.

If its only the bottom tho a trim and your plan will get this corrected on no time :)

i am am really sorry this happened to you.

jg260290
March 6th, 2014, 01:13 AM
Thank you so much, I am glad I'm not alone and someone has been through this before. I do have the little broken ends poking out the whole way up but I can deal with those it's the crispy ends I can't stand but I do have to say, even still damp it feels so much softer after letting the oil sit on my damp hair for 6 hours. I'm actually kinda excited to see how it dries, maybe this won't be as bad as I thought but I won't hold my breath

jg260290
March 6th, 2014, 01:42 AM
I just had another thought, since I am only washing every other day (trying to work my way up to every 3 days by the end of next month without looking like a greaseball) should I be conditioning the ends on the no wash days too? Or should I just wet my hair and put a couple of drops of coconut oil on the ends? I know I sound obsessed with the coconut oil but my hair just drinks it up even when it doesn't feel that dry. Everyone told me not to use it because my hair is super fine but I have never had a problem with the greasy look as long as I just use a couple of drops :)

ErinLeigh
March 6th, 2014, 01:51 AM
I just had another thought, since I am only washing every other day (trying to work my way up to every 3 days by the end of next month without looking like a greaseball) should I be conditioning the ends on the no wash days too? Or should I just wet my hair and put a couple of drops of coconut oil on the ends? I know I sound obsessed with the coconut oil but my hair just drinks it up even when it doesn't feel that dry. Everyone told me not to use it because my hair is super fine but I have never had a problem with the greasy look as long as I just use a couple of drops :)

The conditioning is up to what you think is best. I always conditioned daily just because I wash daily.
In my opinion just from my experice coconut oil really helped so if this seems to working stick with it. I found it even worked wonderfully on completely dry hair, not wet. If ends start feeling dry them you can always mist with water, apply leave in conditioner then re oil. I think it is just fine as is though. I kinda felt the coconut oil penetrated better the less stuff I had on my hair tho. I only conditioned so much because I had protein overload from the keratin as well that needed moisture balance.

I looove me me some coconut oil. I would do dry heavy oiling night before washing and loved the results. I think it saved my hair. I also liked mixing it with olive or avocado. Seems to penetrate and even soften more when I blended although that was saved for the pre poo treatments. When I wanted to not look greasy always used the coconut alone.

F have very fine hair and it didn't look greasy either. Unless I wanted it too. My hair soaked it right up too.
I think coconut oil was very helpful for damaged hair. It absorbed right into it. You could probably just add a little bit on non wah days to the ends dry and be quite fine. If you think you need more.

ErinLeigh
March 6th, 2014, 02:00 AM
Sorry that was hard to read. Phone is acting up.

jg260290
March 6th, 2014, 02:06 AM
Haha that's OK, my phone is terrible for commenting on here haha I'm just worried about going from protein overload to over moisturizing (I didn't even know that existed until last week!) But maybe I'm an odd one in that my fine hair doesn't like protein treatments (which my research says it should). This whole trial and error thing annoys me sometimes haha I used to be someone that thought if you wanted long hair it was simple, don't cut it ever. Boy was I wrong! Even when I didn't heat style, and only dyed every 6 months my hair would still break off, go frizzy and tangle into mats the second it got to collarbone length but I am determined that I will make it to waist in the next 2-3 years! Once this damage is gone, so too are the scissors unless desperately needed!

ErinLeigh
March 6th, 2014, 02:10 AM
You will get there just fine. This was a bump in the road. Nothing more.
I think you will notice too much moisture and protein by how it feels ( mushy or stiff or juuuust right)
Its hard when its chemically damaged to know what it needs. It mimics everything bad.
I really think within a month you will see big improvement and be well on your way to your goals :)

If you are worried for now, take it slow. Do what you are doing and adjust as needed. You truly know best for your hair. . Having confidence in that is everything

jg260290
March 6th, 2014, 02:23 AM
That's what I keep telling myself! This was a learning experience that needed to happen to set me on the right track :) I'm going to try the less is more approach for now and keep doing what I'm doing until it doesn't work anymore and then figure it out from there. I'll there is one thing that stalking this forum for a couple of months has taught me is that everyone's hair is different and loves different things and it really is all trial and error until you find something that works :)

bunzfan
March 6th, 2014, 03:04 AM
Oh my goodness no wonder you were so upset!! i have been growing out a bit of bleach damage for awhile for the past two years i maintained which helped immensely its quite good if you don't want a big chop but want to sort of your hair without losing the length you have now, i think you are really brave cutting a lot off..gentle handling, plenty of treatments and micro trimming has helped me a lot.

jg260290
March 6th, 2014, 03:42 AM
I'm kind of over the initial heart break now (many thanks to all you lovely ladies for that :) and kind of excited to start a new chapter with my hair and truly get it really healthy and the length that I want, finally after trying since I was about 10 (14 years so far at shoulder length! Talk about frustrating! ) so I have decided to ignore the hairdressers and my mother who swear by monthly "trims" averaging about an inch each time (my whole new growth!) And just look after it and assess as need be and to learn to be VERY firm with the stylists. If they don't listen or take me seriously I will walk out and not pay a cent, seems to be the only way they will learn!

clioariane
March 6th, 2014, 04:48 AM
Ooh girl, your story sound so familiar to me. I'm sorry about your hair! I've had the same experience several years ago and the best advice I can give you is to stop chemically processing your hair immediately. Look into protein treatments to strengthen your hair, as well as moisture treatments to combat dryness. I personally didn't do the 'big chop' but got trims every 3 months to slowly cut out the damage, but that's entirely up to you. Good luck on your journey to virgin hair! Fast forward 4 years and my hair is now waist-length, virgin and in the best shape it's ever been in my adult life. Stay active on this forum and you'll pick up a lot of information as well as motivation to reach your goals. Good luck!!