Looking for a good "moisture therapy" routine...for a DRY climate? w/ shampoo bars?

[sweet&sourkiwi]

Hello! I'm looking for some moisture-infusing help...for a really really dry climate that makes it hard to use the usual humectants! How can I get more moisture in my hair and locked in? I am trying to take a break from cones, and am working with CV shampoo bars at the moment. That said, I struggle with dryness and breakage whether I CO, shampoo (SLS free!) or use the bars. Questions on my mind:

• If I use humectant deep treatments under a shower cap, would that help grab moisture? Will they fully rinse off? I'm worried if they stay on my hair will just dry out more...all the conditioners I tried for just in-shower use dried my hair if they were too glycerine-y.

• What, exactly, is conditioner doing that doesn't have cones or humectants? Is it just restoring PH? Smelling good and not much else? Could it be skipped/swapped for a citric rinse and oils, perhaps? A secondary goal is to use fewer products with ingredients I can't pronounce, so I would love to dump the conditioner if it could be traded for something more "natural"!

• Would misting with water throughout the day be helpful or harmful? Water is moisture...yet getting hair wet is considered drying, yes?

• For oiling...do oils simply wear off/become absorbed? Or do you have to wash them out? I'm wondering because...what would be the point of misting over oil if the water can't get in?

My current routine is a shampoo bar wash every few days, followed by a citric acid rinse to rebalance PH, followed by a light oiling (almond then jojoba) on wet hair. Then I leave it alone for as many days as I can stand (usually 2). My current hair state is pretty brittle and fragile. It doesn't wet-stretch so I think I'm good on protein? This is a new journey, I had been sealing in moisture after cone-free conditioning with a cone serum for awhile, but I've come to realize there just isn't enough moisture getting in. And that things that would take cones out would take moisture out. Hence, the cone-break. I realize re-moisturizing will take some time...would love to start a therapeutic routine that really gets it on a good path though!

Oh and yes...I'm good on thyroid and all that! Thank you so much for any thoughts...

[RancheroTheBee]

I lived in a desert climate for about 20 years, so I feel your pain. Conditioners and oils can lock in water and moisture. From what I understand, humectants in your climate aren't going to do much other than suck the water of your hair and put in into the atmosphere.

Oils do indeed absorb, at least in my experience. When I was living in a dry climate, they would absorb within a day or two, and I'd usually rewash or add more oils. To be honest, I've never had luck removing conditioners from the mix, but last time I tried, I was living in a really damp climate, so... Dunno. Wish I could be more help.

Honestly, taking out 'cones and locking in moisture with oils took me almost six months of diligent care.

[sweet&sourkiwi]

Ah thank you! Six months...oh my. Perhaps this will teach me patience! I am floored at how much damage the cones had been hiding...and I was only using them as a leave in serum! Wow. So. Much. Breakage. I know that didn't all happen since I quit cones...yikes. I don't know if my hair will do better without them...but I am hoping to cram more moisture in somehow, and I'm hoping lowering that coney barrier will help. That, and I'm having one of those moments when I've decided chemicals/packaging need to be reduced in my life. Anyway, thanks for the thoughts!

[Quasiquixotic]

I live in Colorado. I've had good luck with lighter hair oils like Hemp and Camilla. Shea Butter can be good. I like to oil hair damp. Deep conditioner masks for hair can help. I really really like indian herbs for hair washing. Especially Amla. Hth :)

[owly]

I live in a very dry climate. I've been oiling the night before I wash my hair. I warm up a tiny amount of coconut oil mixed with olive and jojoba and distribute it through my hair with a comb. I wrap my hair in a scarf until I go to bed (usually an hour or two), and then I wash it out in the morning. I don't use a shampoo bar, though--I put cone-free conditioner on my ends and use a small amount of gentle shampoo to clean my scalp. When my hair is damp, I oil it with a couple of drops of jojoba. I have very short hair (almost chin-length), so I don't use that much oil.

Note: I've only been doing this for a couple of weeks, and it's been more humid than usual here the past couple of days (44% rather than ~5%!), but it seems to be working well. I also really have no basis for this routine--I just kind of experimented and it seems to work. I've heard coconut oil is really good at penetrating hair, which is why I've been using it as a pre-poo, and jojoba is good at locking in moisture, which is why I use it post-washing.

I have also lived in a dry climate my whole life. So far, oiling has been the only think that helps keep my hair from getting really dry.

[sweet&sourkiwi]

Thank you thank you! It seems like I'm on the right track then...I did an SMT under a shower cap yesterday. I guess it just doesn't feel like it's doing enough...I want MOOAAAAR moisture! If my hair is so thirsty why won't it just drink it right up? (Yes, I've clarified and chelated recently!) It's almost like it's too fine and damaged to hang onto it. Ptth.

Woke up this morning with static, gah. Then again, our dew point is -9 degrees...so...

Thanks all!

[ravenreed]

I live in a desert and dryness is a constant problem. There are times that the humidity is so low here that the weather folks can't get a reading. First off, are you running a humidifier indoors? That will help not just your hair, but your skin and your sinuses too. I CO withe Suave Wild Cherry every other day. I don't usually need oils and they cause my more problems than they solve for me. Oils attract lint, which leads to tangles, which leads to split ends and breakage. Other than making my hair softer, I don't find that they make my hair less dry. I may do a pre-cleansing oiling but I never leave the oils in overnight any more. I CO every other day partially because I notice that if I go longer than two days wetting/cleansing my hair my ends start to get very dry. I always follow that with an ACV or lemon juice rinse. I wouldn't consider the ACV or lemon juice rinse a substitute for the conditioner.

A word of warning about SMT's and humectants- people in dry climates often have to avoid them. Humectants like honey and aloe vera gel will attempt to suck moisture out of the air and if there isn't any, they will suck it out of the hair shaft. My first time doing an SMT, I ended up with split ends on every hair about two days after. Just to make certain that was the culprit, I tried it one more time, and unfortunately it was the SMT.

[walterSCAN]

I'm not clear from your first post whether you're oiling over damp or dried hair after your wash, so if you aren't damp oiling, I would suggest that to try and 'lock in' a little more moisture. I'd also agree with avoiding humectants altogether if your dew points are so low.

For your second question, as far as I understand it, conditioners don't do much moisturizing at all. Technically, moisturizing = adding water. (which from your post, I think you knew already, but just in case anyone else didn't) Conditioners are generally meant to 'condition' hair, which usually translates to adding a feeling of softness, helping the hairs slip/ slide past each other more easily, and yes, balance ph, which helps the cuticle lie flat (and adds some of the slip I just mentioned). Conditioners might have other functions as well, but that is the basic purpose of a conditioner if I'm understanding what I've read properly. Someone please do correct me if I'm wrong.

[sweet&sourkiwi]

Thank you Ravenreed! I am running two humidifiers right now...a cool air electric and hot water steaming on the stove! (I work at home. :)

That was my fear on the SMTs...I thought maybe if there was a little micro-climate happening inside my shower cap it might be okay...? Hair health is hard here!

I used to do CO and thought it worked well...it just took me too long to rinse it all out with my wimpy shower and I didn't have time to keep it up!

[sweet&sourkiwi]

Walterscan! Thanks. :) I am mostly damp oiling!

That was my thought on conditioners too...if there aren't cones and humectants...and I've got a ph balancer in the citric rinse...maybe there's nothing there I need right now?

[ravenreed]

My conditioner has no cones or proteins. I am not certain if it has humectants because I haven't researched every ingredient, but my hair doesn't respond badly to them if they are there. What it does is keep my hair from feeling dry and give my hair slip so it is easier to detangle. I am not sure of the science behind it, but I am very sure of the benefits of using conditioner in my hair. I have tried shampoo bars, BTW, and they just didn't work for me at all.

As for the SMT, I found that even after I had rinsed it out very well it still pulled moisture from my hair and caused me problems. If your hair is still dry afterwards, I would say this might be a clue that it is doing your hair more harm than good...

[Tangle or Curl?]

My hair is pretty dry to begin with and with winter and electric heating it can be very dry in here. I tend to do a lot of SMTs, or sometimes I will just lay in a bathtub full of water with no soap/products other than the shampoo I just washed with in it. I always have to use a silicone over top of the wet hair shaft and have recently started oiling over top of the siliconey product I use as a leave in (tresseme curl conditioner). It's the only thing that works. Cone free is a disaster for me. Dry hair with cuticle sticking up like a porcupine. This way my hair stays soft, shiny, and flexible. The only damage I have ever noticed using this method is mechanical from my stubborn need to wear it down.

[sweet&sourkiwi]

I won't lie. Cone free ruined my hair last time. But I feel like I know more now...maybe? I'm set to bail if it seems like I'm headed for a bad place. Would just like to see if this lets me get/grow my hair healthier first!

[ravenreed]

Why not work with the cones if they were working for you? I avoid them because CO works better for my scalp and the cones build up like crazy with the hard water here. However, plenty of members use them in their routine without issue. Maybe the dryness was related to something else in your routine rather than the cones? I don't know. Perhaps a cone user can chime in... Isn't it amazing how everyone's hair needs something completely different? I hope you sort things out and find a routine that makes your hair happier!


I won't lie. Cone free ruined my hair last time. But I feel like I know more now...maybe? I'm set to bail if it seems like I'm headed for a bad place. Would just like to see if this lets me get/grow my hair healthier first!

[walterSCAN]

Walterscan! Thanks. :) I am mostly damp oiling!

That was my thought on conditioners too...if there aren't cones and humectants...and I've got a ph balancer in the citric rinse...maybe there's nothing there I need right now?

Glad I could help! :) I didn't use conditioners at all for ~2 years without ill effect (I used a 50/50 aloe/coconut oil mix as a leave-in on damp hair instead, which worked pretty well given that Indiana is such a humid place) and only recently started using them again (cone free) because I got a shower filter and like the way they feel on my hair now.

Good luck! It might turn out that cones really are for you in the end, but I think it'd still useful to experiment a little and find out for sure, especially if you feel that they are hiding damage that you'd rather see (to be able to prevent it) instead of covering it up.

If I were you, I'd try clarifying to get rid of any residual humectants from the SMT and then try your 'poo bars with the acidic rinse, follow up with a damp oiling, and see how your hair responds to that. If it's not responding/ acting the way you want it to, then next wash try using a non-coney conditioner before the acid rinse. Worst case, you can always go back to the coney routine that (I presume) worked before.

[sweet&sourkiwi]

Thank you all...re: cones. My thinking was that cones were the reason I needed "stronger" shampoo (to cleanse buildup...and I guess strong is relative, I'm using mild surfectants), and that the stronger shampoo was overpowering my hair, and if I could quit cones I could also cleanse more gently and maybe let my hair recover some natural balance. I also thought maybe they were smothering my hair a bit. I also want to cut down on chemicals, I want to find more natural ways to care for myself and dump less scary stuff down the drain. I thought if I could switch from cones and thus shampoo, it would just be less plastic and chemicals and shipping etc in general.

And yes...to be able to see the damage! Sadly...it is throughout. En masse. And I'm not just being self critical...there is lots of breakage, and it's pretty severe. Cones cover it up and smooth it back into the hair body so it doesn't show as much, but I don't think they helped prevent it. And they could have exacerbated it. So it was never love with cones...just more like...they made things tolerable. But I fantasized about a better way...

All that said...the world's a scary place and I'm sure just sitting in front of the computer is unnatural and plasticy! So, I may be putting a little too much stock in a few bottles of hair product. So thank you to all ye who rushed to reassure me that cones are okay! I still may return...but since that requires clarifying...I will probably push this experiment just a bit longer. :) Thank you for all your words of advice!

[ravenreed]

If the cones make your hair easier to comb and less tangly, they will reduce breakage over time, IMO. There are cones and there are cones. Some are easier to remove than others. I don't know which are which, but all that info is out on the net and on LHC. Also, IIRC, there are a few members who CO and use coney products so you don't necessarily have to remove them constantly. If you get buildup, then you clarify. It's hard to know. Good luck, and who knows, you may hit on something that works for you without cones. Just don't trash your hair more in the process!


Thank you all...re: cones. My thinking was that cones were the reason I needed "stronger" shampoo (to cleanse buildup...and I guess strong is relative, I'm using mild surfectants), and that the stronger shampoo was overpowering my hair, and if I could quit cones I could also cleanse more gently and maybe let my hair recover some natural balance. I also thought maybe they were smothering my hair a bit. I also want to cut down on chemicals, I want to find more natural ways to care for myself and dump less scary stuff down the drain. I thought if I could switch from cones and thus shampoo, it would just be less plastic and chemicals and shipping etc in general.

And yes...to be able to see the damage! Sadly...it is throughout. En masse. And I'm not just being self critical...there is lots of breakage, and it's pretty severe. Cones cover it up and smooth it back into the hair body so it doesn't show as much, but I don't think they helped prevent it. And they could have exacerbated it. So it was never love with cones...just more like...they made things tolerable. But I fantasized about a better way...

All that said...the world's a scary place and I'm sure just sitting in front of the computer is unnatural and plasticy! So, I may be putting a little too much stock in a few bottles of hair product. So thank you to all ye who rushed to reassure me that cones are okay! I still may return...but since that requires clarifying...I will probably push this experiment just a bit longer. :) Thank you for all your words of advice!

[lapushka]

You might try conditioning twice after shampooing. It's the WCC method, and I've used it for years. Works like a charm especially if your ends and lengths tend to be dry and after washing with a harsher (drying) sulfate shampoo.

[sweet&sourkiwi]

Thank you all! I appreciate the thought that cones might help cause less damage...eeek, I feel like my hair is just wimpily breaking every time I even touch it. :( It feels ridiculously fragile without cones (or without...whatever it's missing now.) I do like some of the other benefits of the shampoo bars though...hmm.

And double conditioner! I hadn't thought of that. Do you use two different kinds? I wonder how that works versus just glopping on more? Interesting!

[truepeacenik]

Colorado here, too, front range mountains (currently in exile).
SMT was a miserable failure until I learned to do it in a steamy bathroom.
(Even in the Bay Area, I tend to aim for rain or fog)

I ran humidifiers seven months of the year.
Water intake also seems to matter. After a month of barely over hydrating on a daily basis, the roots seemed fuller.

oils intended to sink into the hair I used on almost dry but still a touch damp hair. And for damp bunning.
sealing oils I used on towel dry hair.

[lapushka]

And double conditioner! I hadn't thought of that. Do you use two different kinds? I wonder how that works versus just glopping on more? Interesting!

Yes, two different kinds. That way you get the benefits of both! One might be good for slip, while the other is better for detangling. Mine is left on for 2 min. each. It's enough for me. And my hair comes out soft, and tangle free (yes: tangle-free).

[JLeighs]

I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as most of the members here, but I discovered a couple of years ago that my hair needs glycerin-heavy styling products in low and extremely low dewpoints to keep it moisturized. This defies logic based on what I have read, but it's what my hair needs so I go with it. I have 3 products that I rotate: Queen Helene Royal Curl, Andalou Naturals Styling Cream, and UR Curly Tight Curl Enhancer. None of them contain silicones. If I try to use a product in the winter that isn't heavy in glycerin, my hair looks like I stuck my finger in a light socket. Really. lol. On the flip side, once spring truly hits, if glycerin gets anywhere near my hair I'm a frizzy mess.

[walterSCAN]

I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as most of the members here, but I discovered a couple of years ago that my hair needs glycerin-heavy styling products in low and extremely low dewpoints to keep it moisturized. This defies logic based on what I have read, but it's what my hair needs so I go with it. I have 3 products that I rotate: Queen Helene Royal Curl, Andalou Naturals Styling Cream, and UR Curly Tight Curl Enhancer. None of them contain silicones. If I try to use a product in the winter that isn't heavy in glycerin, my hair looks like I stuck my finger in a light socket. Really. lol. On the flip side, once spring truly hits, if glycerin gets anywhere near my hair I'm a frizzy mess.

You're right, that does defy logic... fascinating! I wonder why it works like that for you?

[JLeighs]

You're right, that does defy logic... fascinating! I wonder why it works like that for you?

I wish I knew! I went years completely avoiding glycerin in the winter because I just "knew" that it would make my horribly dry and snapping off hair even worse. One day I was so frustrated that I didn't care and just slathered in Queen Helene Royal Curl that had been sitting in my product graveyard because glycerin is the 2nd ingredient. It was like magic in my hair. My jaw was on the floor. It's worked like that every time for me since then as long as it's late fall/winter. This year, just to further test the glycerin theory, I bought the other two products I mentioned just because glycerin was in the top 4 ingredients. They also work magic in my hair. The only thing these three products have in common is that they are very heavy in glycerin.

[maskedrose]

You may also want to check out the catnip thread, if you haven't already. I recently (as in, 3 washes ago) switched to using only catnip tea as my "conditioner" and so far I've been really pleased with the results. I don't rinse it out, although that does not seem to work for everyone. I simply wash with a gentle shampoo, squeeze the excess water out of my hair, then dunk the length a few times in my tea and pour the excess over my scalp and crown. I detangle with a comb while its soaking wet, then let it drip dry. It feels odd about halfway through drying (crunchy and coated) but once its dry its pretty amazing. Lots of body and shine, moisturized ENDS (for more than a day...which never happened with conditioner) and a decent amount of slip. From what I've read, the moisturizing effects of catnip build up over time, so my fingers are crossed that it continues. My hair tends to be very porous and fragile, so keeping the length from being dry and frizzy has been a real battle.

[ravenreed]

If it works, it works. My hair is like that. I dyed it for decades so you would think it would need protein. However, it hates protein with passion. The only reason I cautioned the OP is because of the reported dryness after using the SMT.


I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as most of the members here, but I discovered a couple of years ago that my hair needs glycerin-heavy styling products in low and extremely low dewpoints to keep it moisturized. This defies logic based on what I have read, but it's what my hair needs so I go with it. I have 3 products that I rotate: Queen Helene Royal Curl, Andalou Naturals Styling Cream, and UR Curly Tight Curl Enhancer. None of them contain silicones. If I try to use a product in the winter that isn't heavy in glycerin, my hair looks like I stuck my finger in a light socket. Really. lol. On the flip side, once spring truly hits, if glycerin gets anywhere near my hair I'm a frizzy mess.

[sweet&sourkiwi]

Thank you so much all! I've tried the gylcerine theory and unfortunately my hair does not defy logic...at least not on this one! But thanks for the thought, always worth a radical suggestion!

Two conditioners makes sense too...thank you!

I have not tried catnip...thank you so much for the idea! I wouldn't have thought of that one.

[ravenreed]

I use a catnip rinse as a leave in after nearly every cleansing. It provides great slip and is one of the biggest reasons that my split ends have diminished. I HIGHLY recommend it!

[sweet&sourkiwi]

I use a catnip rinse as a leave in after nearly every cleansing. It provides great slip and is one of the biggest reasons that my split ends have diminished. I HIGHLY recommend it!

Ooooh, I may have to try this before I totally give up on no-cones...life is just not going well without them it seems! Thanks!

[pepita]

im not an english speaker,what is smt?

[Platzhalter]

It's Snowymoons moisture treatment, which even has its own thread that can be found here (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128) :)

[MusicalSpoons]

Yes, two different kinds. That way you get the benefits of both! One might be good for slip, while the other is better for detangling. Mine is left on for 2 min. each. It's enough for me. And my hair comes out soft, and tangle free (yes: tangle-free).

Hmm, I didn't know that was the purpose of double conditioning. Interesting! Not that I'm in a dry climate (far from it - we literally drove through a cloud today!) but looking for ways to tweak my routine rather than having to experiment too wildly.

[lapushka]

Hmm, I didn't know that was the purpose of double conditioning. Interesting! Not that I'm in a dry climate (far from it - we literally drove through a cloud today!) but looking for ways to tweak my routine rather than having to experiment too wildly.

Yes you can pick your conditioners (or even masks) depending on what you want them to do. You can use this reasoning for both CWC and WCC methods.