can coconut oil penetrate over sealing oil

[ErinLeigh]

Lets say post shower you applied a little sealing oil like grapeseed, argan or jojoba.
If you pre pooed with coconut before the next wash, do you think the coconut oil would not penetrate as well over the more sealing oils?
Would it be like cones where some absorption is blocked, or is it a little different?

I cannot seem to find the answer but I am curious.

[teela1978]

I've never noticed cones blocking coconut oil absorption. I don't see why any other oil would.

[Anje]

Doesn't seem like it should, given that the oils should be completely soluble to each other. I think it should be just fine, though the results that work best for you are what you should go on.

[ErinLeigh]

I've never noticed cones blocking coconut oil absorption. I don't see why any other oil would.

That's good to hear. Many here say no issue over their cones but I get so confused with it all. I had found and old LHC archived thread that said it won't penetrate over cones and needed clean hair so I started wondering if some oils had same effect. I wish there was a hard scientific answer to be sure. I don't want to waste time or contribute to excess buildup or anything.
So far I think things are fine but input and experience are valuable :)

[Firefox7275]

Nothing seals at the rates used in normal haircare, you will only have a very thin layer on your hair. Oil mixes fine with oil, the lauric acid in the he coconut oil should diffuse through other oils and then through the cuticle.

[ErinLeigh]

Anje and Firefox!! I was hoping I would see you guys here :)
Thank you both and Teela for replying so quickly. I was ending up on the wrong side of the internet searching for sites. Glad I can chill now.
This covers my concerns so I truly thank you.

[Firefox7275]

BTW argan should in theory be a penetrating oil since it is rich in oleic acid.

[ErinLeigh]

Yes! I read that just a week or so ago and was wondering if that was true. Pretty cool. I am still trying to make that darn oil work for me so I am sometimes putting it in the mister, alternating with jojoba and grapeseed..and once a week using in as prepoo. It is sticky in my hair for some reason but does seem to do something my hair likes when washed out. I have issues being heavy handed :/

[teela1978]

I don't use oil as a leave-in (other than silicone oils), they leave my hair feeling odd. As a pre-wash they're awesome though. Ymmv, everyone's hair and scalp,and preferences to the texture of their hair are different.

[meteor]

Lets say post shower you applied a little sealing oil like grapeseed, argan or jojoba.
If you pre pooed with coconut before the next wash, do you think the coconut oil would not penetrate as well over the more sealing oils?
Would it be like cones where some absorption is blocked, or is it a little different?

I cannot seem to find the answer but I am curious.

Yes, oils penetrate through both natural and artificial (e.g. cones) oils. Oils mix with oils very well. Oils penetrate through other oils better than through a leave-in conditioner (which is water-based), for example, so you are good. Think of it this way: if water penetrates through oiled hair (while water and oils don't mix), then oils must penetrate through oiled hair (if the oils aren't solid, of course).
I've seen a theory that a mix of oils (e.g. coconut + olive, coconut + avocado, etc) can penetrate better than just one oil, due to oils "requiring less energy" to get under the cuticle, but no scientific support.

I can't find any research beyond this one about coconut oil and mineral oil: http://journal.scconline.org//pdf/cc2001/cc052n03/p00169-p00184.pdf
It shows that coconut oil penetrates the hair shaft, but mineral oil doesn't, applied to same hair, but both reduce hydrophilicity of the hair protein, so reduce the water uptake, swelling / deswelling of wet hair and hygral fatigue. But many research papers use a mix of oils as so-called "artificial sebum". I hope there will be research some day to compare penetration of this "artificial sebum" to coconut and other oils.

From personal experience, I often layer different oils and always notice that they sink in well by the next day. The only times I have an issue is if I use too much or if I use coconut oil or other oils rich in saturated fatty acids in cold weather, because they solidify and don't really penetrate (or let other oils penetrate) as well as when they are warm and runny.

[Agnes Hannah]

I was wondering about this too, thanks for the thread!

[Panth]

Random thread-jack (sorry!): for all of you doing a pre-wash oil treatment. The optimal length of time for penetrating oils, e.g. coconut, is overnight. So how do you oil your hair overnight without getting oil all over everywhere?

I've tried putting my sleep stocking on - it sort of protects my pillow, but gets so saturated with oil that it can't be worn again without washing. I can't imagine that a shower cap would actually stay on my head. What am I missing?

[MissBubble]

I use a shower cap and stays on all night. In the past I had used a silk scarf, too.
I don't care about my pillow, I will wash it anyway, but I don't want any oils to be transfered though it on my face and have a break out.

[ErinLeigh]

Yes, oils penetrate through both natural and artificial (e.g. cones) oils. Oils mix with oils very well. Oils penetrate through other oils better than through a leave-in conditioner (which is water-based), for example, so you are good. Think of it this way: if water penetrates through oiled hair (while water and oils don't mix), then oils must penetrate through oiled hair (if the oils aren't solid, of course).
I've seen a theory that a mix of oils (e.g. coconut + olive, coconut + avocado, etc) can penetrate better than just one oil, due to oils "requiring less energy" to get under the cuticle, but no scientific support.

I can't find any research beyond this one about coconut oil and mineral oil: http://journal.scconline.org//pdf/cc2001/cc052n03/p00169-p00184.pdf
It shows that coconut oil penetrates the hair shaft, but mineral oil doesn't, applied to same hair, but both reduce hydrophilicity of the hair protein, so reduce the water uptake, swelling / deswelling of wet hair and hygral fatigue. But many research papers use a mix of oils as so-called "artificial sebum". I hope there will be research some day to compare penetration of this "artificial sebum" to coconut and other oils.

From personal experience, I often layer different oils and always notice that they sink in well by the next day. The only times I have an issue is if I use too much or if I use coconut oil or other oils rich in saturated fatty acids in cold weather, because they solidify and don't really penetrate (or let other oils penetrate) as well as when they are warm and runny.

Thank you for the link and for the great response.

[ErinLeigh]

Random thread-jack (sorry!): for all of you doing a pre-wash oil treatment. The optimal length of time for penetrating oils, e.g. coconut, is overnight. So how do you oil your hair overnight without getting oil all over everywhere?

I've tried putting my sleep stocking on - it sort of protects my pillow, but gets so saturated with oil that it can't be worn again without washing. I can't imagine that a shower cap would actually stay on my head. What am I missing?

I just apply, clip up and wait about 2 hours then lay my head on my satin pillowcase. I have several of them so I can change them out. After about 2 hours though I notice the oils tend to sink in enough where there is not significant transfer onto materials. I do worry about oil transfer breakouts so I change the pillowcase often.
I have found the prepoo does not have to be so heavy that oil is getting on everything. I do get heavy handed and it does happen, but for me personally going that heavy is not necessary. Jut rub the oil between palms to where palms are shiny but there is no pooling of oil in them, then glide the palms down the hair (in a prayer position) That should be enough for protective prepoo in my opinion.
(says the girl who waaaay overdid it last night)

[Firefox7275]

Random thread-jack (sorry!): for all of you doing a pre-wash oil treatment. The optimal length of time for penetrating oils, e.g. coconut, is overnight. So how do you oil your hair overnight without getting oil all over everywhere?

I've tried putting my sleep stocking on - it sort of protects my pillow, but gets so saturated with oil that it can't be worn again without washing. I can't imagine that a shower cap would actually stay on my head. What am I missing?

Shower cap stays on fine for me, not a disposable thin plastic one but a proper elasticated one with an inner thick plastic lining and outer fabric layer. I've previously done baggie secured with a hair tie plus microfibre turban which shifts and loosens but doesn't fall right off. You can also put a soft towel over your pillow.

The researchers used both a long overnight and twenty four hour soak in different studies, even with the longer time a short application of heat increased penetration. Lauric acid probably just diffuses in however long you leave it, assuming saturation is not reached. AFAIK overnight was chosen for practicality/ to mimic real life situations not proven optimal.

[Anje]

The researchers used both a long overnight and twenty four hour soak in different studies, even with the longer time a short application of heat increased penetration. Lauric acid probably just diffuses in however long you leave it, assuming saturation is not reached. AFAIK overnight was chosen for practicality/ to mimic real life situations not proven optimal.
That would make sense for me. Quite a lot of the time, really, times are chosen so that no one needs to come into the lab in the middle of the night to continue the experiment. :)

[Panth]

Ok, so it appears that my problem is a) a lack of trust in shower caps and b) being far to heavy-handed with the oil. ('Heavy' oiling for me means 'so much oil that blonde hair looks the same as when dripping wet'.)

Also, this is so me in the lab:

That would make sense for me. Quite a lot of the time, really, times are chosen so that no one needs to come into the lab in the middle of the night to continue the experiment. :)

[meteor]

Random thread-jack (sorry!): for all of you doing a pre-wash oil treatment. The optimal length of time for penetrating oils, e.g. coconut, is overnight. So how do you oil your hair overnight without getting oil all over everywhere?

I've tried putting my sleep stocking on - it sort of protects my pillow, but gets so saturated with oil that it can't be worn again without washing. I can't imagine that a shower cap would actually stay on my head. What am I missing?

If you oil only your ends and you braid/contain your hair before bed, you have nothing to worry about as there isn't much contact surface area with pillow.
But even oiling my scalp, I never had an issue: I don't use too much oil, and I try to spread it very thoroughly, and I apply oil to my hair at least 1-2 hours before bed, so it might be largely absorbed by the time I'm going to bed. My hair looks only somewhat greasy when I go to bed with a few tablespoons of oil in. My sleep cap might get a tiny bit greasy, but nothing major. The only time I left a noticeable stain was when I used half a bottle of oil during my early experiments.

[meteor]

The researchers used both a long overnight and twenty four hour soak in different studies, even with the longer time a short application of heat increased penetration. Lauric acid probably just diffuses in however long you leave it, assuming saturation is not reached. AFAIK overnight was chosen for practicality/ to mimic real life situations not proven optimal.
Absolutely! And maybe if research compared oil penetration of 8 hours to 24 hours or more, we'd see more thorough and even oil penetration with more time. It seems to make sense as our sebum appears to spread better with time, according to NW/SO folks. It's quite possible that there is no upper limit to how long oil can safely stay in hair - only downsides are scalp health, lint/dirt attraction, and greasy look.

[teela1978]

I don't bother oiling overnight. I just put it in, leave it for as long as I can stand it, and wash it out. I've never noticed a difference in my hair between the methods. My usual oiling time is probably an hour or two (I typically clean or exercise during that time... bikram yoga was always good for a hair treatment when I was doing that).

[ErinLeigh]

Absolutely! And maybe if research compared oil penetration of 8 hours to 24 hours or more, we'd see more thorough and even oil penetration with more time. It seems to make sense as our sebum appears to spread better with time, according to NW/SO folks. It's quite possible that there is no upper limit to how long oil can safely stay in hair - only downsides are scalp health, lint/dirt attraction, and greasy look.

I just tried cones again for first time. Styled hair and finished with a little hemp seed oil.
I decided to try coconut oil over the cones/hemp. The first 12 hours it seemed to not have penetrated much but now that it has been a full 24 hours it seems a lot of oil is being absorbed.
I guess for my hair it's going to need the full 24 to get the full effect when applied over cones. Usually without cones 12 hours seems to work ok for me.