cowashing and shedding

[ErinLeigh]

Does anyone have an idea why cowashing increases shedding?
I would like to add more cowashes to my routine but do not have extra hair to spare if shed rate goes up.

Does anyone know what causes this shedding? I cannot seem to find an answer and maybe there isn't one but if anyone has any ideas or experiences I would love to hear them.

Also please, if you have experienced increased shedding with cowashing, can you please advise how much and if it finally regulated itself...or did you have to stop?

I am hesitant to put this in the cowash thread as i fear the ones who stopped cowashing will not see it, but MODS if this needs to go there please move or delete and accept my apologies.

[walterSCAN]

I didn't CO wash for long, not because of the shedding, just because I could not seem to get my very fine, very straight hair to look or feel clean with it. My only theory on the shedding I did have while I was doing it was that it wasn't really extra hairs being shed. It seemed to me that the hairs were already shed and just had an easier time escaping the greater mass of my hair because of the conditioner. Since with CO I was putting conditioner on all of my hair instead of just ears down, there wasn't an area of hair that had less slip (and by extension, more grip) to hold the shed hairs in place.

I recently got a shower filter to deal with the awful, awful water we have here (which made my hair feel gunky and even more tangle prone), and I think I'm experiencing something similar with the improved water-- the already shed hairs are able to let go of the surrounding hairs more easily, so I notice more shedding in the shower. I don't notice any extra shedding out of the shower (maybe even a little less), so it seems to make sense to me.

[Johannah]

I CO a lot right now (to get out heavy oilings) and yes, I've experienced some shedding. I guess it's a bit personal how much (and if you shed at all), but for me it wasn't a lot. I noticed I lost more hairs, but not too much :p

It's about the transitioning period. You scalp is used to SLS (and cones) and suddenly it stops getting it. My shed lasted about 3 weeks, I guess.

[Wosie]

I always thought that a big reason of the bigger sheds when CO:ing was due to the fervent rubbing on one's scalp. When I used SLS shampoos I didn't massage my scalp half as much as I do now.

[sarahthegemini]

I think some people's scalp just doesn't like having conditioner on it, and thus the shedding is the result of the scalp 'freaking out'

[SybilVane]

I CO washed for about three months and had to stop because of the shedding, even though my hair liked it. I persisted for so long because I was hoping it was a transition phase, but stopped when I didn't see the end of it and got worried about how my hair was thinning... Now that I'm back to shampooing I have lots of baby hairs, so hopefully I'll have my thickness back :) I just need to be patient...

[Firefox7275]

Conditioner only washing does not necessarily cause increased shedding. Correlation is NOT causation: for example one lengthy and somewhat heated thread on the topic on NC was updated after the OP saw a dermatologist. Turned out the shedding was due to life stress a couple months prior to commencing co-washing, the timing was pure coincidence.

Where the two ARE linked there are various potential contributory factors
- over zealous rubbing/ scrubbing. This is NOT necessary, just use plenty of product and possibly a soak.
- allergy to or irritation from an ingredient in the chosen product
- failure to wash effectively or rinse effectively
- preexisting scalp disorder, diagnosed or not, meaning shampoo is better than conditioner (eg. seborrhoeic dermatitis)
- co-washing started at the same time as brushing or combing reduced or washes stretched (common in those doing Curly Girl).

Do be aware sulphate surfactants can cause hair loss in susceptible people. Also that the basic ingredients of a conditioner (major emollients = fatty alcohols/ cationic surfactants) are also the basic ingredients of a skin moisturiser/ lotion, it really is fine to apply those to (most people's) skin. Some plant extracts, fragrances or colours perhaps not.

[Saldana]

My hair and scalp hated CO washing, so I didn't do it for long (pre-chop days). But I, too, noticed that my shed rate went up hugely when I was doing it. Don't know why...I wasn't scrubbing any more than usual. It just seemed that something about getting the conditioner on my scalp loosened hair that might otherwise have hung on for a bit longer. :shrug:

[Marika]

I'm with Wosie... I think shedding could be more related to mechanical reasons. I don't really massage my scalp at all when I wash with shampoo but I absolutely have to when CO washing. Otherwise my hair looks limp and dirty. I also have to rinse a lot longer which could lead to damage (depending on water pressure) and maybe shedding.

I have had my hits and misses when it comes to products (for co wash) but none of them have caused any shedding. But then again, I only co wash every now and then.

[Sterlyn]

I CO washed for several years and never noticed any difference in shedding because of it. I had really good results with it when I did it, it left my hair clean without stripping out all the moisture. I don't think its a given that it will increase shedding for you, but I have read enough people here stating that it did for them and I believe them. I suppose the reason doesn't really matter if it is an effect you experience, as losing gobs of hair is distressing to say the least. Reaction to different products and routines vary from person to person, what causes problems for one person may be a god send for another. It sounds like you are/or have in the past used CO washing at least some from your post, if it hasn't caused any problems, then maybe you can slowly increase the number of times you put it in your routine and see what happens. Unfortunately I don't think you will know for sure how you will react to it until you try it. I would just be cautious about continuing with it if you do notice lot's of increased shedding, it seems a lot of the posts in which people reported it, IIRC the majority didn't notice it resolving until they stopped the CO washing.

Hopefully others will chime in with their experiences. :)

[Theobroma]

I lost 40% of my thickness to CO-related shedding before I realised what the culprit was. I did CO for a year and a half and everything was fine at first, but over time I was losing more and more hair in each wash. I'm sure I'd be bald by now if I'd kept it up.

When I switched back to shampoo, and subsequently to soap, my shedding instantly dropped to a fraction of what it had been and stayed there. Seriously, it's two years since I quit CO and my hair has grown from hip to classic in that time, and the hairball I shed per wash is still a quarter the size of the ones I used to lose during CO washing. (I have photos to document this, by the way.)

In my case the culprit was definitely NOT extra scrubbing. When I started using soap I was probably scrubbing more rather than less than during my CO days. I think that, for whatever reason, some scalps just don't want anything rich getting on them. I also shed handfuls if I try scalp oiling.

Bottom line: CO isn't for everyone.

[ositarosita]

I only shed if I use silicone free conditioner (tresemme naturals is the worst for me). I find the cheaper the conditioner the LESS I actually shed. I think it's all about finding the conditioner the works best with your SCALP.

[Scarlet_Heart]

I lost 40% of my thickness to CO-related shedding before I realised what the culprit was. I did CO for a year and a half and everything was fine at first, but over time I was losing more and more hair in each wash. I'm sure I'd be bald by now if I'd kept it up.

When I switched back to shampoo, and subsequently to soap, my shedding instantly dropped to a fraction of what it had been and stayed there. Seriously, it's two years since I quit CO and my hair has grown from hip to classic in that time, and the hairball I shed per wash is still a quarter the size of the ones I used to lose during CO washing. (I have photos to document this, by the way.)

In my case the culprit was definitely NOT extra scrubbing. When I started using soap I was probably scrubbing more rather than less than during my CO days. I think that, for whatever reason, some scalps just don't want anything rich getting on them. I also shed handfuls if I try scalp oiling.

Bottom line: CO isn't for everyone.

THIS! Same thing happened to me. Everything was fine for a while and then the shedding got worse and worse. The shed hairs had huge follicles and I realized that it was because the follicles were gunked with... well... gunk. I rinsed and scrubbed well! Much more thorough than when I had used shampoo because it doesn't lather. I know that doesn't make a difference, but in my brain, the lack of lather made me feel like I had scrub and distribute more. But my scalp does not like anything slippery on it. No oil, conditioner, or even vinegar are to touch my scalp, because when they do, my hair slips right out and I have major sheds. This is also the reason I had to stop using henna. Shampoo is the only thing I can use on my scalp and even then I have to be very selective.

[Wildcat Diva]

I had a scary shed moment or two after trying castor oil scalp massages. Yikes! Never again, not worth it to try.

[ExpectoPatronum]

I've tried COwashing twice. Each time resulted in a huge amount of shedding that never corrected itself. I would seriously shed around 50-75 every day in the shower. If I wash every day now, I lose MAYBE 10. My 4+inch circumference ponytail has suffered as a result and I'm (im)patiently waiting for those hairs to regrow. I tried different conditioners and techniques but my scalp just did not like it. I wish it did because it made my hair feel very nice.

I was using SLS free shampoo for a while, but my hair didn't really like it. I'm experimenting with shampoo bars now and that seems to be a happy medium so far. To parrot what other members have said, someone's trash product/method can be another person's treasure lol.

[Theobroma]

I had a scary shed moment or two after trying castor oil scalp massages. Yikes! Never again, not worth it to try.

Castor oil was what I tried too. Once. I'll never put oil or anything rich on my scalp again!


I've tried COwashing twice. Each time resulted in a huge amount of shedding that never corrected itself. I would seriously shed around 50-75 every day in the shower. If I wash every day now, I lose MAYBE 10. My 4+inch circumference ponytail has suffered as a result and I'm (im)patiently waiting for those hairs to regrow. I tried different conditioners and techniques but my scalp just did not like it. I wish it did because it made my hair feel very nice.

I was using SLS free shampoo for a while, but my hair didn't really like it. I'm experimenting with shampoo bars now and that seems to be a happy medium so far. To parrot what other members have said, someone's trash product/method can be another person's treasure lol.

Yup, it made my hair feel great as well. But less happy hair attached to my scalp is infinitely preferable to happy hair parting company with my head at an unseemly rate.

Luckily bar soap plus a vinegar rinse makes my hair just as happy and allows it to stay on my head!

[ravenreed]

I have less shedding with CO washing. As with everything related to hair, I think it is YMMV.

[jeanniet]

I shed much more using shamppo; in fact, I just did a shampoo wash last week after about three months of straight CO, and the shed was easily double normal. So it's very much a YMMV thing. The vast majority of people who CO don't experience shedding--which makes sense, of course, because they probably wouldn't keep up with it if they were losing hair. If you have scalp conditions or sensitivities to certain ingredients, I'd be cautious, and it's always a good idea to monitor when you try something new, but in general I don't think shedding is a problem (but again, YMMV).

[pelicano]

I'm always baffled by the amount of hair that ends up in the plug hole when I use conditioner (I never use it on my scalp, just from about half way down). I recently bought a conditioner that was too rich for my hair, so I started using it as a pre-wash conditioner, then just shampooing it out and not doing anything more. I lost a lot less hair this way, but I really don't understand why.

[Weewah]

I'm scared about shedding since I've been co-ing for 2 or 3 weeks now. I'm looking for it so I could be imagining things but my hair trapper might have more hair than usual. I don't think I'd notice if I wasn't looking for it though. I'm just going to use a strong shampoo every once in a while to clean whatever gunk might clog my follicles, because I sure do love co-washing for my dried out hair.

[ravenreed]

Yeah, I shed like a wildebeest when I use shampoo. This why I usually shampoo from the ears down if my hair is gunky and needs extra cleansing. My scalp just hates sulfates. Not only do I shed, but I end up with itchy, flaky scalp too... the only reason I keep them in my rotation is that my hair really benefits from an occasional shampooing. Another thing that does my hair in is scalp oiling. I shed so much it isn't funny, so I only do it a couple times a year.


I shed much more using shamppo; in fact, I just did a shampoo wash last week after about three months of straight CO, and the shed was easily double normal. So it's very much a YMMV thing. The vast majority of people who CO don't experience shedding--which makes sense, of course, because they probably wouldn't keep up with it if they were losing hair. If you have scalp conditions or sensitivities to certain ingredients, I'd be cautious, and it's always a good idea to monitor when you try something new, but in general I don't think shedding is a problem (but again, YMMV).

[jeanniet]

Yeah, I shed like a wildebeest when I use shampoo. This why I usually shampoo from the ears down if my hair is gunky and needs extra cleansing. My scalp just hates sulfates. Not only do I shed, but I end up with itchy, flaky scalp too... the only reason I keep them in my rotation is that my hair really benefits from an occasional shampooing. Another thing that does my hair in is scalp oiling. I shed so much it isn't funny, so I only do it a couple times a year.

How much does a wildebeest shed? :p I get itchy flakes from sulfates, too--actually from too much shampooing, period. I've never oiled my scalp, so don't know how that would turn out, but I've used conditioner on my scalp since whenever it first came out (70s?) and never had a shedding problem. Ironically (since I'm half Indian), Indian herbs cause me to shed buckets.

[Foxylocks]

I heard somewhere that the conditioner softens your scalp so that it releases some extra, healthy hairs that were never meant to be shed. I can't verify the validity of this, but it could be an explanation.

[ravenreed]

Sorry, I couldn't find a shedding wildebeest but this (http://www.arkive.org/mouflon/ovis-orientalis/image-G28486.html) will give you an idea. I do well with neem, but soap nuts give me a hivey rash. Me and my skin are not always friends! :slap: So I would like to try alma at some future date, but I am hesitant.

ETA: Heck, I just had a horrible reaction to burdock root too, so I am a mess. I typically avoid herbal mixes for just this reason. I have to know that everything in the mix is something that I have already patch tested at a previous time! No Indian hair oils for me, alas.


How much does a wildebeest shed? :p I get itchy flakes from sulfates, too--actually from too much shampooing, period. I've never oiled my scalp, so don't know how that would turn out, but I've used conditioner on my scalp since whenever it first came out (70s?) and never had a shedding problem. Ironically (since I'm half Indian), Indian herbs cause me to shed buckets.

[jeanniet]

Sorry, I couldn't find a shedding wildebeest but this (http://www.arkive.org/mouflon/ovis-orientalis/image-G28486.html) will give you an idea. I do well with neem, but soap nuts give me a hivey rash. Me and my skin are not always friends! :slap: So I would like to try alma at some future date, but I am hesitant.

ETA: Heck, I just had a horrible reaction to burdock root too, so I am a mess. I typically avoid herbal mixes for just this reason. I have to know that everything in the mix is something that I have already patch tested at a previous time! No Indian hair oils for me, alas.

When I volunteered at the local reptile rescue the guy had a stuffed musk ox in his garage (don't ask) and that thing shed like crazy, but then it wasn't alive. Musk ox have really long, wiry hair.

I can see why you would avoid herbs. I don't really have sensitivities to sulfates, but they just really dry my scalp out. I had a flakey, itchy scalp for years until I stopped using them.

[ravenreed]

Yeah, I am a perfect example as to why natural is not always better. However, the herbs that work for me work really, really well. I often use a random mix of any the following, depending on what I am doing or what I have on hand: catnip, nettle, horsetail, bay, sage, rosemary, chamomile, calendula, hibiscus, lavender, lemon balm, mint, tulsi, green tea, garlic, and/or ginger. I often make an herbal tea and whatever I just drank, the leaves get used a second time on my hair. Or, alternately, I save the leaves and make oatmeal for my chickens and mix the leaves in. They really like when I give them hibiscus, nettle, mint, or calendula.

Oh hi, OP, sorry for the thread derail. Now back to your regularly scheduled program...


When I volunteered at the local reptile rescue the guy had a stuffed musk ox in his garage (don't ask) and that thing shed like crazy, but then it wasn't alive. Musk ox have really long, wiry hair.

I can see why you would avoid herbs. I don't really have sensitivities to sulfates, but they just really dry my scalp out. I had a flakey, itchy scalp for years until I stopped using them.

[Firefox7275]

I heard somewhere that the conditioner softens your scalp so that it releases some extra, healthy hairs that were never meant to be shed. I can't verify the validity of this, but it could be an explanation.

As far as I can tell that is just one of those wild theories that are ubiquitous on the net: if it were so ladies who use facial moisturisers and body lotions regularly would be skipping waxing appointments in their droves. Conditioner has the same basic ingredients: fatty alcohols and cationic surfactants. I believe some of these may cause skin reactions for those who have certain inflammatory skin disorders.

[Loviatar]

I shed kittens when I was regularly CO washing. I COd for at least a year without realising I'd lost a lot of hair. Not 40% but enough to be noticed by me. I was using American vo5, Inecto, Gliss, and supermarket own brands. Like Theobroma, for me it cannot be mechanical - I rub my scalp and hair just as much now on my shampoo bar routine.

I wash daily, and I can drop in a CO a week maybe, but if I CO regularly, I lose more hair. I also still use the same conditioners -vo5, Inecto etc. I use them for deep treatments as well.

[ErinLeigh]

Loviatar so you shed only when cowashing with the same conditioners? That is interesting. I need to keep an eye on my cowashes. I have only been doing once a week but was wanting to up to 2-3 but i am going to proceed with caution. I have a ton of VO5 and a loreal cleansing cream i was hoping to use up but all this shedding makes me nervous.

[renia22]

Does anyone have an idea why cowashing increases shedding?
I would like to add more cowashes to my routine but do not have extra hair to spare if shed rate goes up.

Does anyone know what causes this shedding? I cannot seem to find an answer and maybe there isn't one but if anyone has any ideas or experiences I would love to hear them.

Also please, if you have experienced increased shedding with cowashing, can you please advise how much and if it finally regulated itself...or did you have to stop?

I am hesitant to put this in the cowash thread as i fear the ones who stopped cowashing will not see it, but MODS if this needs to go there please move or delete and accept my apologies.

Check out this article, the info in it might help explain it:

http://thebeautybrains.com/2014/01/20/is-the-no-poo-method-safe-for-hair-and-scalp/


Although I think he's talking about no poo in general, so not sure if it would be relevant to your once a week co wash shedding issue, but it might help explain it for those who stopped shampooing. If you scroll down the comment section, this is what the trichologist said:


Tony Maleedy
As the person that provided the original information for this blog I’d like to address some of the comments made.

E.D. Yes, there are plenty of surfactants (surface – active – agents) in commercial conditioners, but these surfactants are not aimed at removing oil and grime from your scalp and hair, their function is to soften, moisturise and generally improve the condition of the hair, not clean it.
The other point is that, generally speaking, conditioners are not needed on the scalp or on the hair close to the scalp because these regions have a plentiful supply of natural oil (sebum) from the skin. Conditioners should be used on the drier mid-to end sections of the hair, not the scalp.

Eileen. I like your idea of an objective experiment to monitor hair washed with a shampoo and others simply rinsed with water. But as Randy correctly points out we can only put hairs that have been removed from the person’s head under a scanning electron microscope (plus they have to be covered with a fine layer of gold) so these hairs are useless for further testing. But I will give this some thought and maybe come up with an answer.

Jill. It’s very easy to say chemicals used in shampoos are harmful, but, as Randy asks, where’s the evidence for this assertion? (the Dirty Dozen Toxins information is not evidence). These surfactants have been used to make shampoos for over 70 years and as far as I am aware there is no evidence from the FDA, the European Cosmetics Regulatory Authority or any other such body that says they are harmful.

The main reason I encourage people to wash their hair and scalp frequently is because I have spent over 20 years as a trichologist in clinical practice in London and New York treating people with hair and scalp disorders. In that time I have examined the heads of many thousands of people and a significant proportion of the scalp and hair problems I have seen, from dandruff and seborrhoeic dermatitis to some forms of hair loss, are either caused or exacerbated by the scalp not being washed often enough. And in these cases the ‘cure’ is simple!

So if you shower or bathe regularly using soap or shower gel, but you don’t wash your hair (and scalp) ask yourself ‘Why, am I treating the skin that happens to be on the top of my head so differently to the skin on the rest of my body?’

[alishaxmarie]

From the link Renia provided: “Sebum is composed of fatty acids which are the food source of a fungus called Malassezia Globosa. This fungus is always present on the scalp, but when the level of sebum increases the fungus proliferates resulting in scalp itching, tenderness, flaking, inflammation, spots, dandruff, seborrheic dermatitis and other problems."


I've been CO washing for about 2 or 3 months now and when I used sulfate-free shampoo a few days ago, my scalp itched like crazy and was disgustingly flaky and I could feel some bumps that may or may not have been sores.

I have no idea what my shed rate was like prior to CO washing but I started during the winter (lots of LHC-ers say they shed big time during winter) so I honestly don't think any change in my shed rate could be attributable to CO-ing anyway. There's always college stress and my diet and whatnot which could all contribute to changes in my hair's overall thickness. Perhaps some heavy CO shedders just happen to be entering a shed phase on a large portion of their scalps at the same time that they change routines? There's too many factors to consider so you should just incorporate more CO washes until you either decide to ditch the shampoo altogether or run out of conditioners.

AND that guy doesn't seem to realize that even if one goes WO, s/he still cleans her hair with a BBB.

ALSO: I shower daily but I hardly ever bother with body wash even though I have it. Water seems sufficient to me I guess since I've barely used soap on my body for as long as I can remember. I don't smell even if I work out and my skin has never felt uncomfortable.

[jeanniet]

Check out this article, the info in it might help explain it:

http://thebeautybrains.com/2014/01/20/is-the-no-poo-method-safe-for-hair-and-scalp/


Although I think he's talking about no poo in general, so not sure if it would be relevant to your once a week co wash shedding issue, but it might help explain it for those who stopped shampooing. If you scroll down the comment section, this is what the trichologist said:


Tony Maleedy
As the person that provided the original information for this blog I’d like to address some of the comments made.

E.D. Yes, there are plenty of surfactants (surface – active – agents) in commercial conditioners, but these surfactants are not aimed at removing oil and grime from your scalp and hair, their function is to soften, moisturise and generally improve the condition of the hair, not clean it.
The other point is that, generally speaking, conditioners are not needed on the scalp or on the hair close to the scalp because these regions have a plentiful supply of natural oil (sebum) from the skin. Conditioners should be used on the drier mid-to end sections of the hair, not the scalp.

Eileen. I like your idea of an objective experiment to monitor hair washed with a shampoo and others simply rinsed with water. But as Randy correctly points out we can only put hairs that have been removed from the person’s head under a scanning electron microscope (plus they have to be covered with a fine layer of gold) so these hairs are useless for further testing. But I will give this some thought and maybe come up with an answer.

Jill. It’s very easy to say chemicals used in shampoos are harmful, but, as Randy asks, where’s the evidence for this assertion? (the Dirty Dozen Toxins information is not evidence). These surfactants have been used to make shampoos for over 70 years and as far as I am aware there is no evidence from the FDA, the European Cosmetics Regulatory Authority or any other such body that says they are harmful.

The main reason I encourage people to wash their hair and scalp frequently is because I have spent over 20 years as a trichologist in clinical practice in London and New York treating people with hair and scalp disorders. In that time I have examined the heads of many thousands of people and a significant proportion of the scalp and hair problems I have seen, from dandruff and seborrhoeic dermatitis to some forms of hair loss, are either caused or exacerbated by the scalp not being washed often enough. And in these cases the ‘cure’ is simple!

So if you shower or bathe regularly using soap or shower gel, but you don’t wash your hair (and scalp) ask yourself ‘Why, am I treating the skin that happens to be on the top of my head so differently to the skin on the rest of my body?’

His reasoning fails to explain why at least some people who CO very rarely shampoo and don't experience any issues. I shampoo maybe every three months (if that), and if anything, have far fewer scalp problems such as flakiness or buildup than I ever did shampooing regularly. My hair is most certainly clean after washing. GRU shampoos once a year. Others do similarly. And many curlies use conditioner throughout their hair as leave in or styling product. So clearly the ideas outlined don't hold true for many people.

[Aderyn]

There are lots of reasons for an increase in shedding: seasonal changes, stress, change in how you handle your hair, etc.

If you think the CO-washing may be related, you could be going through a bit of an adjustment period. I know when I did CO-washing for a while, I had a slight increase in shedding (or at least, I noticed more hairs. I didn't pay as much attention prior to switching, so that could contribute, too), but that lessened over time to a more normal level.

Maybe it's just the particular product you've chosen that doesn't react so well with your scalp, too.

[renia22]

His reasoning fails to explain why at least some people who CO very rarely shampoo and don't experience any issues. I shampoo maybe every three months (if that), and if anything, have far fewer scalp problems such as flakiness or buildup than I ever did shampooing regularly. My hair is most certainly clean after washing. GRU shampoos once a year. Others do similarly. And many curlies use conditioner throughout their hair as leave in or styling product. So clearly the ideas outlined don't hold true for many people.

Maybe it's not true for you, or for others that CO washing works for. Maybe some people are more prone to scalp problems than others? Also some conditioners have gentle cleaning ingredients in them, so maybe for certain people, that's enough? It's fun to experiment and try new things, but if people are experiencing more shedding from CO washing or stretching washes, the above explanation from the trichologist would make sense.

[cat11]

I haven't experienced shedding, but I've noticed that alot of people whave been cowashing with v05 or some other kind of straight conditioner instead of a cleansing conditioner or a product specifically marketed for co washing. I co wash and I use a cleansing conditioner that definately gets my hair clean though not stripped and wouldn't be used just as a regular conditioner (even though it advises you just use it as both I use another conditioner after) and I don't notice shedding. maybe using actual conditioner right next to the scalp and without any other lighter cleanser conditioner over time causes hair to fall out a little bit and shed? I've heard of alot of people reporting that straight conditioner on the scalp made them shed. Just an Idea I got after reading post from a lot of cowashers

[Aderyn]

His reasoning fails to explain why at least some people who CO very rarely shampoo and don't experience any issues. I shampoo maybe every three months (if that), and if anything, have far fewer scalp problems such as flakiness or buildup than I ever did shampooing regularly. My hair is most certainly clean after washing. GRU shampoos once a year. Others do similarly. And many curlies use conditioner throughout their hair as leave in or styling product. So clearly the ideas outlined don't hold true for many people.

Sure, you can cherry pick as much data and select individual cases that may seem to be unexplained, still doesn't negate the overall statistical trends and the data gathered.

[jeanniet]

Maybe it's not true for you, or for others that CO washing works for. Maybe some people are more prone to scalp problems than others? Also some conditioners have gentle cleaning ingredients in them, so maybe for certain people, that's enough? It's fun to experiment and try new things, but if people are experiencing more shedding from CO washing or stretching washes, the above explanation from the trichologist would make sense.



Sure, you can cherry pick as much data and select individual cases that may seem to be unexplained, still doesn't negate the overall statistical trends and the data gathered.

Clearly CO doesn't work for everyone. Without controlled studies, it's hard to say exactly why. But it just as clearly does work for many people, as evidenced by the CO thread here and sites such as NaturallyCurly. I didn't claim to be providing data, just a couple of counter examples. As far as I know, there is no data or statistics regarding CO. His "data" is inherently flawed because he was seeing people who sought his services due to problems they were having. He didn't see people with healthy scalps. How can his conclusions be considered valid?

I agree that if CO seems to cause more shedding, it makes sense to stop. It also makes sense to stop shampooing, or anything else, if it appears to cause increased shedding.

[Wildcat Diva]

From the link Renia provided: “Sebum is composed of fatty acids which are the food source of a fungus called Malassezia Globosa. This fungus is always present on the scalp, but when the level of sebum increases the fungus proliferates resulting in scalp itching, tenderness, flaking, inflammation, spots, dandruff, seborrheic dermatitis and other problems."
...

That scalp fungus stuff that lives on my noggin must be pretty picky; it must hate feeding on my sebum and just be hanging around starving waiting for something better to come along. Even if I go a week without washing, and my hair coated with sebum, there's no itching, no flaking, no discomfort. No scalp problems at all. It's fine. I could go longer without a wash if I didn't care that my hair was coated in sebum (which I really don't mind, to tell the truth, and kind of like). I mean, these claims, they kinda make me wonder how the human race existed before there were shampoos, and conditioners, and the idea of cleaning the hair/scalp with a BBB.

[ravenreed]

Between the lice and the fleas, they probably wouldn't notice itching from lack of cleanliness. Things were very, very grubby back then.


That scalp fungus stuff that lives on my noggin must be pretty picky; it must hate feeding on my sebum and just be hanging around starving waiting for something better to come along. Even if I go a week without washing, and my hair coated with sebum, there's no itching, no flaking, no discomfort. No scalp problems at all. It's fine. I could go longer without a wash if I didn't care that my hair was coated in sebum (which I really don't mind, to tell the truth, and kind of like). I mean, these claims, they kinda make me wonder how the human race existed before there were shampoos, and conditioners, and the idea of cleaning the hair/scalp with a BBB.

[Firefox7275]

I don't see why there needs to be any adversarial positions. The reality is conditioner only works to remove heavy sebum build up and heavy oilings for many people, and the products used are relatively rich in emulsifiers (fatty alcohols, cationic surfactants). These are indeed used as emollients/ moisturisers/ conditioning agents but also used by formulators as emulsifiers in oil or butter rich conditioners and body lotions!

The same emulsifiers are used in facial cleansing lotions and body cleansing creams that are recommended by dermatologists for certain skin complaints. They emulsify, they cleanse skin when used with a little massage, experts have long known this.

Not all conditioners are useful for the purpose we do choose specific formulations - maybe the trichologist does not realise this. Some of the commercial 'cleansing conditioners' are little more than regular conditioners, these must have undergone some lab and customer testing albeit not the rigorous double blind studies we might like to see.

Certainly some who co-wash have so little sebum that they could probably wash as well with just water. And certainly some who try have adverse reactions .... As with any product or technique. There isn't even a prescription drug in existence that works great for every user, let alone any cosmetic product.

Some will also suffer build up, presumably depending on their technique, all their products, water and perhaps the composition of their sebum (?waxier). There really isn't anything in either the pro or con 'side' that doesn't fit with logic or refutes the opposite position IMO.

Different people are more or less at risk of different forms of dermatitis, exactly how and why is still to be determined and are no doubt complex but genetic and lifestyle factors appear to be relevant. Since there are no studies those who have preexisting skin complaints are taking a risk trying co-washing, for some its a gamble that pays off for others not so much.

Working out why is a challenge since swapping one commercial product for another means you are removing multiple ingredients and adding multiple ingredients, perhaps also changing techniques.

[renia22]

I haven't experienced shedding, but I've noticed that alot of people whave been cowashing with v05 or some other kind of straight conditioner instead of a cleansing conditioner or a product specifically marketed for co washing. I co wash and I use a cleansing conditioner that definately gets my hair clean though not stripped and wouldn't be used just as a regular conditioner (even though it advises you just use it as both I use another conditioner after) and I don't notice shedding. maybe using actual conditioner right next to the scalp and without any other lighter cleanser conditioner over time causes hair to fall out a little bit and shed? I've heard of alot of people reporting that straight conditioner on the scalp made them shed. Just an Idea I got after reading post from a lot of cowashers

I think a cleansing conditioner doesn't necessarily have to be marketed as such, as long as it contains Stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, but no silicones or agents that build up over time (but even if they do, clarifying occasionally would take care of it). I've heard Suave is recommended as a cleansing conditioner for this reason.

http://beautifulwithbrains.com/2012/10/26/do-cleansing-conditioners-work/

I guess the general message I took away from the trichologist article is, if you change your routine by washing less frequently or by switching to CO washing (or start using new products for that matter) and notice an increase in shedding, the simplest thing you can do is go back to washing more frequently and see if that helps. If a change in routine is helpful and not an issue, great, but CO washing and/ or stretching washes aren't for everyone.

[jeanniet]

It's really a matter of common sense that if you change something and realize it isn't working, you should either go back to whatever previous routine did work, or try something else. In a way, that's what LHC is about--learning the routines that work best for us. There's no single routine that will work for everyone.

[lapushka]

It's really a matter of common sense that if you change something and realize it isn't working, you should either go back to whatever previous routine did work, or try something else. In a way, that's what LHC is about--learning the routines that work best for us. There's no single routine that will work for everyone.

Ain't that the truth! :D

[Suze2012]

I shed a lot less with CO and my hair is thicker now than it ever was.

I am a curly though (and the curls have increased hugely with CO) so my hair clings on to shed hair during the day and only loses hair when I Co wash.
With shamppo I would lose hair during the day and when washing too.

Along my hair journey I tried out several conditioners and found three that immediately made my hair'feel' really really fine.As soon as I went back to my fave conditioner the problem was solved.

It's been a year and a half since I last used an SLS shampoo and I've decided to give it a go..I am dreading it a bit though..,,lol!

[renia22]

It's really a matter of common sense that if you change something and realize it isn't working, you should either go back to whatever previous routine did work, or try something else. In a way, that's what LHC is about--learning the routines that work best for us. There's no single routine that will work for everyone.


Haha, yes, that common sense thing :)

I agree with you. I have also been a member if LHC long enough to have seen that there is in fact something for everyone & lots of experimenting to be done...though I have to say there does seem to be a general theme promoted and a current general trend that says CO washing, stretching washes and sulfate/ silicone free are somehow better, and then people become resistant to washing their hair if there is a problem with one of those methods. I have heard of people refusing to use "regular" ingredients out of fear to the point they'd rather cut off their hair than go near are silicone or sulfate. Or they let their hair get really dirty for fear they aren't stretching washes enough & set themselves up for a scalp problems. If those methods work, great, but if not, it's really okay to wash your hair. It does seem simple, but things do get muddled and complicated with all of these theories floating around.

[Sterlyn]

It's really a matter of common sense that if you change something and realize it isn't working, you should either go back to whatever previous routine did work, or try something else. In a way, that's what LHC is about--learning the routines that work best for us. There's no single routine that will work for everyone.

^^This, I couldn't agree more.

[Sterlyn]

@renia22, I agree with you about it being ok to wash your hair if it needs it. Sulfates don't bother my scalp, but they dry my hair out and my hair frizzes to epic proportions. So I avoid them for that reason. I tried stretching washes and my scalp just itched and went crazy, and looked in general very bad. I couldn't do it and my scalp never did seem to adjust. I wash every other or daily if it seems like it needs it. Like you said if it works for you great, but if not its no big deal try something else. Like a lot of people when I first found hair forums, LOL I think I must have tried just about every idea I ran across. Eventually I figured out if my hair feels healthy and looks decent then I'm probably using the right routine for it.

[jeanniet]

There really are quite a few members here who use regular SLS shampoo and wash often, including some ultra-longhairs, so I don't know why anyone would have the idea you can't grow your hair long using conventional methods. In general, I think curlies are better off with CO and no cones, but there are enough curlies who use shampoo and cones to make it clear that there's always an exception to the rule. Here's to our differences! :toast:

[ErinLeigh]

Whether I cowash or not, or have common sense or not, none of those things get me any closer to understanding how it appears a lot of people can report an increase in shedding by cowashing. In some cases dramatic shedding.

I am bright enough to evaluate whether I should proceed with something new or not. My post is to read experiences so I can go into something if I choose to "eyes wide open." I like to hear what posters report so I know things to possibly look out for. I am not daft enough to assume their experiences or conditions are same as mine. I simply want to hear from people who tried it and what their personal experience is.

Even if YMMV it seems a lot are reporting the same mileage and my curiosity on this topic is high because there have not been any clear reports or studies that I can find that explain it. Of course people have different reactions to changes, products or whatever and they move on...but what is it about CO I wonder than has enough folks reporting increased shedding to grab my attention? Every time I read about cowashing on the internet I can always find in the comments section people saying it caused increased shedding. Using different conditioners doesn't change that for them. People try new things on here all the time but I don't see the same percentages reporting additional shedding compared to other things done to hair, such as henna, oils, herbal washing, shampoo bars etc etc. That makes me question if there is more to it than simply "didn't work for me" - Yet I read Firefox's comments and they make great sense to me also.

What really keeps me thinking is the variety of people who report shedding. Different backgrounds, different types of scalp conditions, different stress levels, different nutrition, different products used..yet same results. I also wonder what percentage this is actually happening to, or if it just seems higher than it is.
I am hopeful there will be solid studies on this eventually and I actually cannot wait to read them.

[renia22]

Even if YMMV it seems a lot are reporting the same mileage and my curiosity on this topic is high because there have not been any clear reports or studies that I can find that explain it. Of course people have different reactions to changes, products or whatever and they move on...but what is it about CO I wonder than has enough folks reporting increased shedding to grab my attention? Every time I read about cowashing on the internet I can always find in the comments section people saying it caused increased shedding. Using different conditioners doesn't change that for them. People try new things on here all the time but I don't see the same percentages reporting additional shedding compared to other things done to hair, such as henna, oils, herbal washing, shampoo bars etc etc. That makes me question if there is more to it than simply "didn't work for me" - Yet I read Firefox's comments and they make great sense to me also.

.

I'd have to go through to find old threads, but I don't think it's just the CO washing some people experience increased shedding from. Many people report the same thing with scalp oilings, herbal washes, and henna, and there are lots of people who report problems with specific brands (Lush, Pantene and Tresseme seem to come up a lot) There are even some who swear sulfate/ silicone free exacerbate shedding (me being one of them). Then there are those who swear sulfates increase shedding. I don't know, it seems like if there is a method that a certain group loves, there will be a percentage of people who swear it increases shedding. I'll have to dig up some links for you to show you what I mean, I'm going mostly from memory.

[Chiquita Banana]

Interesting to read through the replies. I had tried CO washing a couple of years ago and had lots of shedding so I stopped. I don't feel like it was a mechanical issue though. Then a few weeks ago I decided to give it a try again. But this time I did every other wash as CO with the other one my typical coney shampoo/conditioner. No increased shedding. So, I don't know. Could be the particular conditioner that I used? Don't know if I'll keep it up or not - gotta find what works best for my hair and scalp!

[Beborani]

That is the nature of internet Erin. Negatives get over-reported for almost everything. For every disease, every conditon every product you are more likely to see horror stories than happy outcomes as happy outcomes are boring. And there is also confimation bias. Not minimising the problem if there is one. I am one of cowashers and havent seen increased shedding.

[renia22]

Okay here are some I dug up, but I know there are many, many more.

From certain products:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=117947&highlight=Increased+shedding
From scalp oiling:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=15849&highlight=Oiling+increases+shedding

From aloe:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=22811&highlight=Aloe+hair+loss

The following long threads about methods people like, but mixed in are random posts from people who say these things increase shedding:
From henna
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=45&highlight=Henna+increases+shedding

From henna:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=118843&highlight=Aloe+hair+loss

From castor oil
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=18265&highlight=Castor+oil

From shampoo bar:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=74&highlight=Increased+shedding

From Monistat:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=156&highlight=Monistat

From oiling roots:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=110527&highlight=Roobios

From herbs:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=33580&highlight=Herbal+washes+increased+shedding

From Changing shampoo & styling tool:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=20129&highlight=Catnip+increased+shedding

Various methods reported to increase shedding on a hair loss support thread:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=1124&page=11&highlight=increasing+shedding

And of even with all of the testimonials, there are always a few who will say it can't be an external method or product that increases shedding, it has to be internal. Even hair loss experts have conflicting opinions and can't seem to agree. So who knows? :/

[ositarosita]

Yeah, I shed like a wildebeest when I use shampoo. This why I usually shampoo from the ears down if my hair is gunky and needs extra cleansing. My scalp just hates sulfates. Not only do I shed, but I end up with itchy, flaky scalp too... the only reason I keep them in my rotation is that my hair really benefits from an occasional shampooing. Another thing that does my hair in is scalp oiling. I shed so much it isn't funny, so I only do it a couple times a year.

I'm the same way when it comes to shampoo ... my scalp is just so dry to begin with that I can only use shampoo twice a month max (that's if needed) or else my scalp itches so badly that I need to scratch. However I find that because my scalp is so dry and I really produce little to no sebum on my scalp that I HAVE to oil my scalp and if I don't I shed like the wolfman.

[ErinLeigh]

I'd have to go through to find old threads, but I don't think it's just the CO washing some people experience increased shedding from. Many people report the same thing with scalp oilings, herbal washes, and henna, and there are lots of people who report problems with specific brands (Lush, Pantene and Tresseme seem to come up a lot) There are even some who swear sulfate/ silicone free exacerbate shedding (me being one of them). Then there are those who swear sulfates increase shedding. I don't know, it seems like if there is a method that a certain group loves, there will be a percentage of people who swear it increases shedding. I'll have to dig up some links for you to show you what I mean, I'm going mostly from memory.

I know exactly what you mean. Its been ingrained in my head subconsciencly Lush will make me bald :)
Was just startled that the cowash group had enough sheddings with the diff variables that I really started noticing it, and they also seemed to report a scarier increase that it got my attention. Shedding wild animals. Lol

At this point I am keeping shampoo in rotation. Cowashes have their use and I like them. Just without knowing what is going on I am not adding more than 2 week probably. I know that sounds silly to some, but I still need time to see how I feel about the whole thing.

I really want to thank everyone for taking the time to post on this topic.

[renia22]

I know exactly what you mean. Its been ingrained in my head subconsciencly Lush will make me bald :)
Was just startled that the cowash group had enough sheddings with the diff variables that I really started noticing it, and they also seemed to report a scarier increase that it got my attention. Shedding wild animals. Lol

At this point I am keeping shampoo in rotation. Cowashes have their use and I like them. Just without knowing what is going on I am not adding more than 2 week probably. I know that sounds silly to some, but I still need time to see how I feel about the whole thing.

I really want to thank everyone for taking the time to post on this topic.

There seems to be enough people reporting it that there has to be some sort of truth to it. I have the same problem with CO washing (as well as sulfate free and scalp oiling), and I swear Lush does really, really weird things to my hair and scalp . But I can use something like Prell straight-up and I'm fine. Go figure!!

ps one exception I have noticed is that if I CO wash once in a blue moon, like to get coconut oil or henna out of my hair, that seems to be okay? Also with henna glosses I lose fewer hairs than with straight henna? But trying to CO wash as any kind of a regular method, weird things start to happen and eeeeeek!!! Hair loss. I do have an oilier scalp in general, and Ive heard others say the same thing, so maybe that's a factor?

[ErinLeigh]

Okay here are some I dug up, but I know there are many, many more.

From certain products:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=117947&highlight=Increased+shedding
From scalp oiling:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=15849&highlight=Oiling+increases+shedding

From aloe:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=22811&highlight=Aloe+hair+loss

The following long threads about methods people like, but mixed in are random posts from people who say these things increase shedding:
From henna
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=45&highlight=Henna+increases+shedding

From henna:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=118843&highlight=Aloe+hair+loss

From castor oil
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=18265&highlight=Castor+oil

From shampoo bar:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=74&highlight=Increased+shedding

From Monistat:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=156&highlight=Monistat

From oiling roots:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=110527&highlight=Roobios

From herbs:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=33580&highlight=Herbal+washes+increased+shedding

From Changing shampoo & styling tool:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=20129&highlight=Catnip+increased+shedding

Various methods reported to increase shedding on a hair loss support thread:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=1124&page=11&highlight=increasing+shedding

And of even with all of the testimonials, there are always a few who will say it can't be an external method or product that increases shedding, it has to be internal. Even hair loss experts have conflicting opinions and can't seem to agree. So who knows? :/

Awesome thanks for taking the time to do that! I think its a great idea having the other reports listed here also.

I do not have shedding with I cowash with honey. The honey for me eliminates the "greasies." I wonder if that coorelates somehow?

I've come to conclusion that for me moderation in all aspects is best. I can't tip to strongly off the basic path. I can enhance routine but full on changes just cause me more hassle and questions than I have time for.
I just have to learn to understand not everything has an answer when I demand it :) Sometimes it simply "is what it is."

Off to read all these links. Weeeeeee

[Theobroma]

ps one exception I have noticed is that if I CO wash once in a blue moon, like to get coconut oil or henna out of my hair, that seems to be okay? Also with henna glosses I lose fewer hairs than with straight henna? But trying to CO wash as any kind of a regular method, weird things start to happen and eeeeeek!!! Hair loss. I do have an oilier scalp in general, and Ive heard others say the same thing, so maybe that's a factor?

Not in my case. I can go two weeks between washes and still not have a trace of a greasy scalp -- but I shed handfuls from CO washing.

Also from scalp oiling. I was actually wondering whether it's dry scalps that shed more from CO! :D

[NoRush]

I tried co washing on several occasions with three different conditioners, different brands, different ingredients and it just doesn't work for me, I shed like crazy so I stopped after a 2 or 3 times each, I spaced my attempts by several weeks before switching product and trying again. Also my scalp didn't appreciate the extra product, my hair would get greasy within a day.

It's not for everyone, clearly not for me, but I think that if you want to try it, do it only until you feel comfortable with it, if it works awesome, if not, on to the next experiment ;)

[ravenreed]

I WISH my scalp was dry! The other symptom I get from shampooing my scalp is rebound oiliness, and I am an oily person to begin with. My hair gets oily less than 24 hours after shampooing and the dirty scalp smell is a lot stronger. I really did much better switching to CO. With CO I can easily wash every other day and not feel badly about my hair. I am so glad that it works for me. Do you find that ACV helps with the itchiness? It makes a huge difference if I do have to shampoo my scalp.


I'm the same way when it comes to shampoo ... my scalp is just so dry to begin with that I can only use shampoo twice a month max (that's if needed) or else my scalp itches so badly that I need to scratch. However I find that because my scalp is so dry and I really produce little to no sebum on my scalp that I HAVE to oil my scalp and if I don't I shed like the wolfman.

[lapushka]

It's not for everyone, clearly not for me, but I think that if you want to try it, do it only until you feel comfortable with it, if it works awesome, if not, on to the next experiment ;)

Exactly. Everyone's mileage varies, but I just don't get those people who are sticking to CO no matter what it does to their hair. If I were to shed more due to CO, I would move onto the next hair care method. Methods enough to pick and choose from. Ultimately it's not what we want for our hair, but what our hair wants for us. I'd say "listen" to the hair.

[ravenreed]

Something else that makes me shed handfuls is dry shampoo with silica in it. I also get cystic acne if I use mineral makeup that has silica. My skin really, really hates silica, apparently. :shrug:


Okay here are some I dug up, but I know there are many, many more.

From certain products:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=117947&highlight=Increased+shedding
From scalp oiling:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=15849&highlight=Oiling+increases+shedding

From aloe:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=22811&highlight=Aloe+hair+loss

The following long threads about methods people like, but mixed in are random posts from people who say these things increase shedding:
From henna
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=45&highlight=Henna+increases+shedding

From henna:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=118843&highlight=Aloe+hair+loss

From castor oil
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=18265&highlight=Castor+oil

From shampoo bar:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=74&highlight=Increased+shedding

From Monistat:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=156&highlight=Monistat

From oiling roots:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=110527&highlight=Roobios

From herbs:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=33580&highlight=Herbal+washes+increased+shedding

From Changing shampoo & styling tool:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=20129&highlight=Catnip+increased+shedding

Various methods reported to increase shedding on a hair loss support thread:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=1124&page=11&highlight=increasing+shedding

And of even with all of the testimonials, there are always a few who will say it can't be an external method or product that increases shedding, it has to be internal. Even hair loss experts have conflicting opinions and can't seem to agree. So who knows? :/

[ravenreed]

I feel that way about everything on LHC. I see people miserably trying to stretch washes, go WO, or determined to find 'natural products' even if their hair or scalp are freaking out. I say try something a month at the most and if it doesn't work, move on!


Exactly. Everyone's mileage varies, but I just don't get those people who are sticking to CO no matter what it does to their hair. If I were to shed more due to CO, I would move onto the next hair care method. Methods enough to pick and choose from. Ultimately it's not what we want for our hair, but what our hair wants for us. I'd say "listen" to the hair.

[LMB]

I use poo and a coney conditioner through the week (I have fine hair that doesn't seem to be cleaned too great with CO and I need to not have a grease head at work, although when I'm on vacation I may try and stick to it and see if i can get past the 'transition' phase) and I CO at the weekend/when I have time to air dry my hair, as I actually seem to have wavy/curlier hair than I first thought.
I 'shed' more when I CO wash but I think that is because I am also de-tangling in the shower and not touching it while it dries.
I don't shed as much in the shower when I s&c, but then I cool blow dry my hair, de-tangle and put it up before I go out so although I may not lose as much in the shower I would probably lose the same amount but at different points in the routine (my bedroom floor will testify to this!)

[renia22]

Something else that makes me shed handfuls is dry shampoo with silica in it. I also get cystic acne if I use mineral makeup that has silica. My skin really, really hates silica, apparently. :shrug:

Wild!



Not in my case. I can go two weeks between washes and still not have a trace of a greasy scalp -- but I shed handfuls from CO washing.

Also from scalp oiling. I was actually wondering whether it's dry scalps that shed more from CO! :D

Wow, too funny!! There really seems to be no pattern or rhyme or reason to it..

[jeanniet]

Whether I cowash or not, or have common sense or not, none of those things get me any closer to understanding how it appears a lot of people can report an increase in shedding by cowashing. In some cases dramatic shedding.

I am bright enough to evaluate whether I should proceed with something new or not. My post is to read experiences so I can go into something if I choose to "eyes wide open." I like to hear what posters report so I know things to possibly look out for. I am not daft enough to assume their experiences or conditions are same as mine. I simply want to hear from people who tried it and what their personal experience is.

Even if YMMV it seems a lot are reporting the same mileage and my curiosity on this topic is high because there have not been any clear reports or studies that I can find that explain it. Of course people have different reactions to changes, products or whatever and they move on...but what is it about CO I wonder than has enough folks reporting increased shedding to grab my attention? Every time I read about cowashing on the internet I can always find in the comments section people saying it caused increased shedding. Using different conditioners doesn't change that for them. People try new things on here all the time but I don't see the same percentages reporting additional shedding compared to other things done to hair, such as henna, oils, herbal washing, shampoo bars etc etc. That makes me question if there is more to it than simply "didn't work for me" - Yet I read Firefox's comments and they make great sense to me also.

What really keeps me thinking is the variety of people who report shedding. Different backgrounds, different types of scalp conditions, different stress levels, different nutrition, different products used..yet same results. I also wonder what percentage this is actually happening to, or if it just seems higher than it is.
I am hopeful there will be solid studies on this eventually and I actually cannot wait to read them.

The thing is, you can't assume that people who are reporting increased shedding from CO are actually experiencing it. Some undoubtedly are, but there's no way to say how many may be having other problems entirely. For example, there was an extensive thread over at NaturallyCurly started by someone who insisted that CO was causing her shedding, and then months later she reported that it was actually due to a previously undiagnosed scalp condition. Unless other possibilities are ruled out, it's really hard to determine cause and effect. You also don't know the numbers of people reporting shedding vs. the numbers of people who may not bother saying anything because they don't shed. Or, for that matter, the people who weren't paying much attention to shed and then think they "might" be shedding more. So I'm a little unclear on what you hope to learn, other than some people shed for some reason and others don't. It's just all really unscientific and there are no clear conclusions that can be made. I also totally agree with renia22 that any method will have reports of increased shedding, and just as with CO, there's no way to determine cause and effect. BTW, it seems to me that when I first tried CO several years ago I had some increased shedding and I have no idea why, because now I don't. Maybe my scalp was in worse condition, maybe it was something with our well water--I really don't know. I've used the same conditioners. So...yeah, sometimes there aren't answers other than "See if it works for you." :shrug:

[ErinLeigh]

I am hoping to learn why people are reporting increase of shedding with cowashing. Simple as that.
It is so far the highest shed report of all the things I have read on "experiments"
One person with a scalp condition on curlynikki does not discount other experiences. It just answrs one of my questions on one person..ok they had another issue. NOw what about more? The whole point of this thread was for people to weigh in their experiences. In my opinion I see a lot of the same report and it makes me question if there is something or some combination that causes it. As a person who reads it i find it quite normal to wonder why. In all the links provided there were still far less percentages reporting increased shedding so to me the numbers are still there in high enough count to warrant caring and looking to see what else if anything at all.

Not sure why my questions need clarified to make things clear? If people are reporting situations like shedding started then waned..which is one of the questions I asked.then of course that's something to consider. I don't see anyone discounting anything... Kind of the whole point of making the thread..to get MORE information to get some light on other factors. What is puzzling about that?

Thread kind of derailed, it's a natural progression for any topic, so I don't think I will see anything to consider. It turned more into "why are you asking" "don't do it if it doesn't work" instead of "here is my experience and routine" so I don't expect to gleen anything further from it. I don't mind the turn, just didn't get me any further than I hoped is all. I am almost done with the official COwash thread and after that most likely the thought will have left my mind anyway.

[renia22]

It really is puzzling & tough to make sense of all of the info. Also, it's hard to say how many people really are having a negative experience with a particular method because maybe they just aren't saying anything. Or sometimes a person or two will weigh in with a negative experience and get shot down by those who love it, so that might hold others back? I don't think I've ever heard of an actual controlled study done in regards to CO washing and hair loss, but that would be interesting!

erinLeigh-have you noticed Wen in particular gets lambasted? maybe because it's so popular, but in the reviews and threads on it, there seem to be a lot of people who claim it causes hair loss. If you google "wen hair loss" a ton comes up, but here are a couple. Some interesting hypotheses on these threads:

https://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=46931

http://community.qvc.com/forums/beauty-banter/topic/148928/wen-and-hair-loss.aspx

[ositarosita]

I WISH my scalp was dry! The other symptom I get from shampooing my scalp is rebound oiliness, and I am an oily person to begin with. My hair gets oily less than 24 hours after shampooing and the dirty scalp smell is a lot stronger. I really did much better switching to CO. With CO I can easily wash every other day and not feel badly about my hair. I am so glad that it works for me. Do you find that ACV helps with the itchiness? It makes a huge difference if I do have to shampoo my scalp.

My scalp has been dry for as long as I can remember.. I remember hearing people say they need to wash their hair because it was greasey meanwhile I hadn't washed my hair in 2 weeks and BARELY had any sebum. I wish I could get the greasey feeling so I wouldn't have to compensate with oils. I have yet to try ACV. At the moment I am just waiting for my hair to get long enough so I can put it up for weeks on end.

[louzen]

I've been CO washing for about 18 months now. I had to stop shampoo altogether due to a highly sensitive and dry scalp. I haven't noticed any increase in shedding, although I sometimes have periods of time when I shed a bit more than usual, then it stops and returns to normal rates. One thing I would mention, is that I've been a bit over-zealous with the scalp scrubbing lately and think I've managed to pull out some baby hairs! I'm going to be a lot more gentler from now on. So, that may be one of many reasons why people possibly shed more when they CO wash - I think some previous poster mentioned 'over-zealous' scrubbing too. Some scalps may be able to cope with it, others not.

But of course, everyone's different. They are so many factors at play here - the type of conditioner used, how the person scrubs their scalp, their scalp/hair follicle sensitivity, etc ...

[ErinLeigh]

It really is puzzling & tough to make sense of all of the info. Also, it's hard to say how many people really are having a negative experience with a particular method because maybe they just aren't saying anything. Or sometimes a person or two will weigh in with a negative experience and get shot down by those who love it, so that might hold others back? I don't think I've ever heard of an actual controlled study done in regards to CO washing and hair loss, but that would be interesting!

erinLeigh-have you noticed Wen in particular gets lambasted? maybe because it's so popular, but in the reviews and threads on it, there seem to be a lot of people who claim it causes hair loss. If you google "wen hair loss" a ton comes up, but here are a couple. Some interesting hypotheses on these threads:

https://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=46931

http://community.qvc.com/forums/beauty-banter/topic/148928/wen-and-hair-loss.aspx

Yes I saw that! It is odd isn't it? I shed using Hair One last year and googled it (I only shed 2 hair in shower usually, and I had like 10-15 with Hair One per use) and I found others reported it. I read some were mentioning certain ingredients but when I mentioned here I was told those are very very common ingredients (which they are) so I was baffled.

I am going to read your links now. Thank you for posting them :)

[ErinLeigh]

I've been CO washing for about 18 months now. I had to stop shampoo altogether due to a highly sensitive and dry scalp. I haven't noticed any increase in shedding, although I sometimes have periods of time when I shed a bit more than usual, then it stops and returns to normal rates. One thing I would mention, is that I've been a bit over-zealous with the scalp scrubbing lately and think I've managed to pull out some baby hairs! I'm going to be a lot more gentler from now on. So, that may be one of many reasons why people possibly shed more when they CO wash - I think some previous poster mentioned 'over-zealous' scrubbing too. Some scalps may be able to cope with it, others not.

But of course, everyone's different. They are so many factors at play here - the type of conditioner used, how the person scrubs their scalp, their scalp/hair follicle sensitivity, etc ...

I agree, I really thank you for posting this. I was kind of hoping if people posted their full experience maybe it would bring some light to other reasons. For instance I was wondering if I would notice a coincidence or dry scalps or oily scalps that reported it most, or people who were experimenting with other things like Monistat, EOs etc. Was wondering if maybe together we would start seeing any time of pattern.
I think it is going to remain a riddle but I will always be keeping an ear out for info on the topic. I got really absorbed in reading cowash threads and reviews last week (had too much free time at work) and it just got the wheels turning.

[ErinLeigh]

My scalp has been dry for as long as I can remember.. I remember hearing people say they need to wash their hair because it was greasey meanwhile I hadn't washed my hair in 2 weeks and BARELY had any sebum. I wish I could get the greasey feeling so I wouldn't have to compensate with oils. I have yet to try ACV. At the moment I am just waiting for my hair to get long enough so I can put it up for weeks on end.

Mine is dry too and I rarely shed. When I do it scares the crap out of me. I don't stretch washes as my hair gets drier when I don't wash. I am an oil overcompensater also :)
I was thinking adding more cowashes would be better and give my hair a break, but since shedding does alarm me I wanted to delve deeper into the whole shed thing I had read about.

[louzen]

Mine is dry too and I rarely shed. When I do it scares the crap out of me.

Lol, this is me. I guess it's because I have fine hair and think I can't afford to shed this much!!!

[louzen]

I agree, I really thank you for posting this. I was kind of hoping if people posted their full experience maybe it would bring some light to other reasons. For instance I was wondering if I would notice a coincidence or dry scalps or oily scalps that reported it most, or people who were experimenting with other things like Monistat, EOs etc. Was wondering if maybe together we would start seeing any time of pattern.
I think it is going to remain a riddle but I will always be keeping an ear out for info on the topic. I got really absorbed in reading cowash threads and reviews last week (had too much free time at work) and it just got the wheels turning.

You're welcome :)

[ravenreed]

Something else to consider is that just as many people may be shedding from shampooing but because they don't ever try a new routine they think it is normal. I had no idea how much I was shedding due to shampoo until I switched to CO. Now onthe rare occasion I shampoo my scalp I am always astonished that I wasn't more alarmed at the time.