red to blonde (?), color oops, and seborrheic dermatitis

[captainjanuary]

I'm afraid this is going to be a bit dear diary, sorry!

My hair is light ash blonde (my hair colorist has looked at my roots and called them 8, and treats them like grays :() and I've been dying it red since fall 2012. I usually used boxes, but I went to the salon every once in a while. Lately I've been going to the salon every time.

The problem now is that I've developed seborrheic dermatitis and the keto shampoo that my dermatologist has given me is HORRIBLE for retaining my hair color. On the other hand, the SD is something I need to treat because it is causing hair loss around my hairline. I think I developed the SD when I started using sulfate free shampoos-- it seems that my scalp (if not my hair, sadly) really needs the thorough scrubbing that sulfates provide.

My hair was the healthiest when I graduated from college (four years ago) and was washing it vigorously with head and shoulders. This is what it looks like naturally:

http://i60.tinypic.com/24wvn1z.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/9r25ue.jpg

*sigh* It was the product of several years of benign neglect (no highlights or heat styling).

I decided to go red again (I had red hair in my teens) in 2012, and I love it! So. so. much.

http://i57.tinypic.com/28ixpvs.jpg

However, I started to have some hair loss from SD/stress:

http://i58.tinypic.com/2db5xer.jpg

And I've had to get it cut because it was so thin.

Right now I'm teetering on the edge of using a box of Color Oops to get rid of the red (I did a test and, surprisingly, it did this fairly well) and start going back to my natural color because:

1. I can't take care of my scalp properly and have a nice red color.

2. Red is SO high maintenance, and I'm sick of it looking nice for a while and then having my blonde roots grow out and make me look like I'm balding/there's nothing there.

3. I'm tired of going to the salon to get it done, even though it costs next to nothing as a hair model. The stylist is not gentle and I feel like I lose a lot of hair every time I go. I'd just like a nice full fistful of hair when I make a pony again!

I'm just sad to be having to make this decision because I think the red is so beautiful, and it contrasts so nicely with my skin (which the blonde DOES NOT do) and makes me feel pretty :blushing:. I never felt very pretty with blonde hair.

Anyways, comments, criticism, or advice on Color Oops, SD, or the transition from red to blonde?

Here are some photos of the red I have now:

http://i59.tinypic.com/33nguuh.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/21bqjyu.jpg

http://i61.tinypic.com/2mws5sw.jpg

Thanks, LHC
:blossom:

[Firefox7275]

I have intermittent mild dermatitis on my scalp which is triggered by both box dyes and Colour B4 (like Color Oops) - I assume due to the high alkalinity/ disruption of the skin flora. I suspect very mild SD tho never bothered to have it diagnosed (have contact dermatitis and atopic eczema diagnosed elsewhere on face/ body). Be cautious applying Color Oops if your SD is active/ irritated at present.

SD is believed to be a reaction to the oleic acid in your own sebum and released as a waste product by malassezia yeast. Treatments focus on stripping away the sebum (sulphates also damage the skin barrier) or reducing the population of malassezia or both.

Another option is to work on reducing the amount of sebum you produce, altering the composition so it contains less oleic acid, reducing the accompanying/ underlying inflammation, strengthening and repairing your skin barrier/ flora/ acid mantle. A major part of this is diet and lifestyle modification (anti inflammatory, anti stress).

There is a sulphate free ketoconazole shampoo called Regenepure. Haven't tried it so can't compare its skin and hair friendliness to harsh pharmacy type SD treatments. Another option backed by a published study is raw honey soaks.

Do be aware that oils and butters rich in oleic acid, stearic acid and palmitic acid can all worsen SD. Pure henna has some anti microbial properties and some do find it helps their SD: that would give you a similar red to what you have now.

[Anje]

I can't give you much advice on the SD, because different scalps do best with different things in response to it. If you need to wash frequently and with harsh shampoos, then that's what you've got to do to manage it.

What I did want to say is that you read like an excellent candidate for henna. Natural warm red dye, virtually impossible to remove, far more permanent than conventional dyes. Read up on it, do some research -- I think you'd like it if you would like to keep the red. (ETA: Many sites recommend mixing henna with acid such as lemon juice. Most of the people around here find that it works just fine with warm water and is far less irritating. Almost certainly, less irritating is better for your SD.)

[Rosetta]

I really second what Anje said - your shade of red (gorgeous!) would be pretty easy to achieve with henna (or a mix of henna and cassia), I used to do that for years; and it might possibly even help with your SD. And it sounds like you don't really want to go back to your natural colour...

[Ambystoma]

Do be aware that oils and butters rich in oleic acid, stearic acid and palmitic acid can all worsen SD.

That's interesting - would coconut oil fall into that category? My partner used to get some nasty SD and we would deal with the plaques and bad dry patches by massaging his scalp with coconut oil and leaving it overnight - he prevents it now by avoiding sulphates (which not everyone can do, but it works well for him) and only occasionally gets the odd mild dry patch now which we use the oil for. My hair tends to shed more if I put oil on my scalp, and it seems to hate oils in general, so clearly it's not the right treatment for everyone - perhaps try a "patch test" on a small part of your scalp before wash day and see how it goes?

[Firefox7275]

That's interesting - would coconut oil fall into that category? My partner used to get some nasty SD and we would deal with the plaques and bad dry patches by massaging his scalp with coconut oil and leaving it overnight - he prevents it now by avoiding sulphates (which not everyone can do, but it works well for him) and only occasionally gets the odd mild dry patch now which we use the oil for. My hair tends to shed more if I put oil on my scalp, and it seems to hate oils in general, so clearly it's not the right treatment for everyone - perhaps try a "patch test" on a small part of your scalp before wash day and see how it goes?

I am sulphate sensitive too: the week I switched to co-washing and lotion cleansing my face my elbow patch of atopic eczema cleared and my face and scalp became less greasy. It's a common contributory factor in many common dermatological disorders. I've since had my mother switch off sulphates and her SD reduced by roughly half. Also eliminated all sulphates myself, including those in toothpaste (better lips and gums) and hand wash (few hangnails).

Pure oconut oil (solid at cooler room temps) is very rich in lauric acid, with some smaller fatty acids. Fractionated (liquid) coconut oil contains more of the very small molecules. Coconut oil does have mild anti microbial activity but not convinced that is enough to deal with most cases of SD. What it may do is act as a simple occlusive, potentially protecting from water loss or contact with allergens or irritants.

SD is greasy dandruff BTW, if your husband is getting dry patches I'd query the diagnosis.

[Ambystoma]

Cool - thanks for the info! He was getting greasy, plaquelike patches as well as dryness when he saw a doctor about it, but this was just a GP and not a dermatologist. The plaques are gone now and a little scalp dryness is the only problem he deals with these days. It sounds like going sulphate free may have been the useful part here, (going pretty much WO on his sensitive skin has been a big hit too) and the oil massages might have been the "icing on the cake" so to speak, as well as just being plain enjoyable for him :laugh:

I always look forward to reading your posts, you're such a great resource to have around on the forums!

(and sorry to partially thread hijack, captainjanuary, I hope you manage to make your scalp happy soon :flower:)

[Firefox7275]

Cool - thanks for the info! He was getting greasy, plaquelike patches as well as dryness when he saw a doctor about it, but this was just a GP and not a dermatologist. The plaques are gone now and a little scalp dryness is the only problem he deals with these days. It sounds like going sulphate free may have been the useful part here, (going pretty much WO on his sensitive skin has been a big hit too) and the oil massages might have been the "icing on the cake" so to speak, as well as just being plain enjoyable for him :laugh:

I always look forward to reading your posts, you're such a great resource to have around on the forums!



Thank you that is really sweet of you to say, I'm not having the best week so you really made my day. :o I have learned (and am still learning!) loads from LHC so its good to be able to contribute something a little different. I never would have considered mechanical damage from grooming, hair toys/ secures and even the pillow so significant if it wasn't for this place. And the up dos, oh my!!

[anitacs9101]

I have a cousin who has the same hair color as you, light blonde. She made a last second decision to dye it dark red, and immediately hated it. She tried color oops on it with a regular non-lightening blonde dye afterwards. I didn't think it would work since her dyed color was so dark but it actually worked quite well.

If I were you, I'd grow out natural, because it's very pretty. :heart: But, if you're really determined to go red, then as everyone else has suggested, you could try henna. Just beware, henna is very, very permanent, and you're not going to just be able to use color oops and go back to blonde on command like you could with red box dye. And you'd probably want to try a henna/cassia mix to get the color you have now. If you use straight henna, it could look like the color you want, but when you keep dying it again, it will get darker. Alternately, you could use it at whatever strength/dilution gives you the color you want, and then just do your roots, or do roots regularly with very infrequent whole-head applications.

[maborosi]

I would probably say you and I are similar natural colors. I think I'm a level 7 ash blonde, and I, too, like dyeing my hair red. I like your natural color, but I also think the red is very flattering on you and looks great.

Red is just a really high-maintenance color. That's how it is, unfortunately. It tends to fade or not stick at all.

You might do really well with henna or a henna/cassia blend. But you have to be 100% certain that you want to have red hair for pretty much the forseeable future. It is permanent and does not come out like other dyes, but dyes my hair such a beautiful red color that I find it worth it. I do have to touch up every other week. It looks a bit odd on me, too, when my roots start coming in, so I feel your pain there.

~maborosi~

[captainjanuary]

I have intermittent mild dermatitis on my scalp which is triggered by both box dyes and Colour B4 (like Color Oops) - I assume due to the high alkalinity/ disruption of the skin flora. I suspect very mild SD tho never bothered to have it diagnosed (have contact dermatitis and atopic eczema diagnosed elsewhere on face/ body). Be cautious applying Color Oops if your SD is active/ irritated at present.

SD is believed to be a reaction to the oleic acid in your own sebum and released as a waste product by malassezia yeast. Treatments focus on stripping away the sebum (sulphates also damage the skin barrier) or reducing the population of malassezia or both.

Another option is to work on reducing the amount of sebum you produce, altering the composition so it contains less oleic acid, reducing the accompanying/ underlying inflammation, strengthening and repairing your skin barrier/ flora/ acid mantle. A major part of this is diet and lifestyle modification (anti inflammatory, anti stress).

There is a sulphate free ketoconazole shampoo called Regenepure. Haven't tried it so can't compare its skin and hair friendliness to harsh pharmacy type SD treatments. Another option backed by a published study is raw honey soaks.

Do be aware that oils and butters rich in oleic acid, stearic acid and palmitic acid can all worsen SD. Pure henna has some anti microbial properties and some do find it helps their SD: that would give you a similar red to what you have now.

Thanks for your advice! I looked up Regenepure, but since the 2% Rx keto shampoo is supposed to make a big difference compared to the 1% OTC shampoos, I'm trying to rub it into my scalp before I shower and let it sit to minimize the effect on the ends.

RE: all the replies about henna-- I've considered it but the permanency scares me! I'm already half fed up with the maintenance of regular dye, so I don't know if I could commit to henna.



What I did want to say is that you read like an excellent candidate for henna. Natural warm red dye, virtually impossible to remove, far more permanent than conventional dyes. Read up on it, do some research -- I think you'd like it if you would like to keep the red. (ETA: Many sites recommend mixing henna with acid such as lemon juice. Most of the people around here find that it works just fine with warm water and is far less irritating. Almost certainly, less irritating is better for your SD.)

I've heard that it is supposed to be good for SD (probably because it really deep cleans the scalp) but I'm afraid to try it. I did cassia once when I was a teenager on my blonde hair, and I did it alright, although it made my hair darker, but how easy are touch-ups with henna?

If it is really permanent, can you just do your roots? (Whenever I dye my hair now I have to do my whole head).


I really second what Anje said - your shade of red (gorgeous!) would be pretty easy to achieve with henna (or a mix of henna and cassia), I used to do that for years; and it might possibly even help with your SD. And it sounds like you don't really want to go back to your natural colour...

No, I don't. I LOVE this red color, but part of me just wants to give up on going to the salon for it.



(and sorry to partially thread hijack, captainjanuary, I hope you manage to make your scalp happy soon :flower:)

NP. I'm glad people are having a discussion about it. I've also put coconut oil on my scalp-- I tried it as a vehicle for tea tree oil. It left my hair nice and soft, but didn't help my scalp.


I have a cousin who has the same hair color as you, light blonde. She made a last second decision to dye it dark red, and immediately hated it. She tried color oops on it with a regular non-lightening blonde dye afterwards. I didn't think it would work since her dyed color was so dark but it actually worked quite well.

If I were you, I'd grow out natural, because it's very pretty. :heart: But, if you're really determined to go red, then as everyone else has suggested, you could try henna. Just beware, henna is very, very permanent, and you're not going to just be able to use color oops and go back to blonde on command like you could with red box dye. And you'd probably want to try a henna/cassia mix to get the color you have now. If you use straight henna, it could look like the color you want, but when you keep dying it again, it will get darker. Alternately, you could use it at whatever strength/dilution gives you the color you want, and then just do your roots, or do roots regularly with very infrequent whole-head applications.

Thanks :smile:

Part of me thinks I should embrace my natural color, but then I see stuff like this:

http://hantasticbeauty.blogspot.com/2014/01/hair-tutorial-how-i-dye-my-hair-with.html#more

That color is ammaaazzzinngg.


I would probably say you and I are similar natural colors. I think I'm a level 7 ash blonde, and I, too, like dyeing my hair red. I like your natural color, but I also think the red is very flattering on you and looks great.

Red is just a really high-maintenance color. That's how it is, unfortunately. It tends to fade or not stick at all.

You might do really well with henna or a henna/cassia blend. But you have to be 100% certain that you want to have red hair for pretty much the forseeable future. It is permanent and does not come out like other dyes, but dyes my hair such a beautiful red color that I find it worth it. I do have to touch up every other week. It looks a bit odd on me, too, when my roots start coming in, so I feel your pain there.

~maborosi~

You do touch-ups every other week? Does that take a lot of effort? I'm going to poke around the blog you have linked in your sig to see if you have any tutorials.


Thanks for the replies, everyone! I think, for now, I'm going to try to wash my hair with the keto shampoo but in a way that hopefully minimizes the dye loss. I have a feeling that if I could stand to let my hair grow a few inches (past the point where I look like I'm balding when it just looks like my hairline is receding) that I might feel better about going natural.

But then I'd have all these photos of how nice it looked when it was red... #thestruggle

[Kherome]

It looks just as nice in your natural color.

[Rosetta]

But then I'd have all these photos of how nice it looked when it was red... #thestruggle
Believe me, I understand your struggle - I've myself been torn between red (mostly henna) and growing natural quite a long time ;)



RE: all the replies about henna-- I've considered it but the permanency scares me! I'm already half fed up with the maintenance of regular dye, so I don't know if I could commit to henna.

If it is really permanent, can you just do your roots? (Whenever I dye my hair now I have to do my whole head).
Yes, you can :) Henna doesn't really fade much. And root touch-ups aren't even that hard when you get the hang of henna.
(I know that question wasn't specifically for me, but since I know the answer I thought I'd just give my 2 cents ;))

[Zebra Fish]

I can't really help you with SD, but maybe if you are to scared to commit to henna, you could try Manic Panic before that? I dyed red also, and the maintenance was too high (fading and looking like getting bald coz of lighter roots), I tried Lush henna caca rogue and it was also fading as saloon dye. Unfortunately, here is pretty expensive to get BAQ henna (this shipping is enormous, and they don't sell it anywhere in shops). So I tried Manic Panic Vampire red and was impressed how it sticks with my hair better than saloon dye. I'm thinking about trying a more vivid red with this one, but I think you should have no problems as your hair is fair (mine got darker in the last few years).

I really don't know how MP would go with SD, maybe you should check that with your dermatologist. I didn't get any reaction although my scalp doesn't like oils or conditioner on it (otherwise my scalp is healthy tho). HTH

[door72067]

just to chime in and say I did not have a good experience with Color Oops

yes, it worked just fine, in the beginning

but after about 12-18 months, (I was growing out to natural) the part of my hair that had been Color Oops-ed turned very orangey/brassy and looked awful, was very dry and frizzy (but I'm a curly, so that may have been why the frizz)

in addition, it changed into two different colors, as some of my hair that I removed color from had been dyed several times (red, plus the last time to a medium brown) over a few years and some (closer to the root) had only been dyed a few times at that point

I know lots of people use it with much success, but since I didn't, I like to share


the red does look beautiful, but your natural hair is stunning as well

good luck with whatever you decide

[Anje]

RE: all the replies about henna-- I've considered it but the permanency scares me! I'm already half fed up with the maintenance of regular dye, so I don't know if I could commit to henna.

I've heard that it is supposed to be good for SD (probably because it really deep cleans the scalp) but I'm afraid to try it. I did cassia once when I was a teenager on my blonde hair, and I did it alright, although it made my hair darker, but how easy are touch-ups with henna?

If it is really permanent, can you just do your roots? (Whenever I dye my hair now I have to do my whole head).
Yep, it's that sort of permanent. In fact, most people who don't just want as henna-colored hair as humanly possible find that they have to switch to roots-only to prevent their hair from getting darker than they want.

In my opinion, it's really not that hard to do roots, but there are tricks to it. It's pretty forgiving for overlaps, so most of us just separate hair into a few sections, braid the length, and squirt henna into each section with a bottle with a tip. It is messy, but I haven't been able to dye my hair with anything without leaving blobs all over the bathroom (and me), so it may mostly be that I'm clumsy.

[lapushka]

I can't give you much advice on the SD, because different scalps do best with different things in response to it. If you need to wash frequently and with harsh shampoos, then that's what you've got to do to manage it.

I have SD as well, pretty mildly though, and washing with a harsh sulfate (containing both sls & sles) shampoo (Pantene, or Herbal Essences) will manage it quite well for me. If it crops back up though, then I do need my Nizoral shampoo, which does contain sulfates, but I believe they are there for a reason so it doesn't bother me - has *never* bothered me.

I also second the henna replies. Henna will probably be *heaven* for you to use and you sound as though you want the dye indefinitely, which is good because henna sticks around and is very hard to remove from the hair!

[maborosi]

Thanks for your advice! I looked up Regenepure, but since the 2% Rx keto shampoo is supposed to make a big difference compared to the 1% OTC shampoos, I'm trying to rub it into my scalp before I shower and let it sit to minimize the effect on the ends.

RE: all the replies about henna-- I've considered it but the permanency scares me! I'm already half fed up with the maintenance of regular dye, so I don't know if I could commit to henna.

You might like it. I am okay with regular maintenance because I enjoy how nice henna makes my hair feel (I touch up 2x a month on my roots. YMMV because my hair grows a bit faster than average, I think, and I'm using a very diluted blend that fades a bit more than normal henna). It absolutely does deep cleanse your scalp!! It is amazing! It cleanses better than shampoo, for me, and makes my root hair so so strong and shiny! Even if I have to maintain it a lot, I just like to think of it more as a treatment than a hair coloring feat. ;) It makes it more bearable, lol!

Here's a picture from the henna thread of what my hair looks like now (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=2963&page=408&p=2640526&viewfull=1#post2640526). I've been touching up for almost two years now. I've used varying dilutions on my hair but have found one to give me the color I want. It doesn't really fade very much like chemical red dyes do. You can tweak percentages to give you the color you want.

~maborosi~