Question for fellow wavies when do you claim a new length wavy or stretched

[bunzfan]

I have noticed many wavies claim a milestone when they pull the strands down i.e stretched waves i have always not called it waist,hip etc until i am there wavy that's probably why i get frustrated by growth :lol:

[Weewah]

I'm wavy, but I have a straight underlayer that doesn't really stretch longer. So I'd say unstretched for me.:coolblue:

[bunzfan]

I'm wavy, but I have a straight underlayer that doesn't really stretch longer. So I'd say unstretched for me.:coolblue:

Is you hair brushed out in your picture it looks much straighter than mine , and i class myself as a 2a/2b

[Kherome]

To me, regardless of wave/curl/straight, you haven't reached a milestone unless it's unstretched.

[bunzfan]

To me, regardless of wave/curl/straight, you haven't reached a milestone unless it's unstretched.

That's how i see it, can see how real curlies must get frustrated.

[MinderMutsig]

To me, regardless of wave/curl/straight, you haven't reached a milestone unless it's unstretched.

That's what I used to say and I still aply it on myself but it makes no sense when you're talking about high 3's and 4's. They can visually be APL/BSL or shorter but be waist, tailbone or even classic stretched with all the problems and issues others at classic have.

I say let everyone decide for themselves. If you feel it's waist then it's waist no matter if it looks much shorter.

[Kherome]

That's how i see it, can see how real curlies must get frustrated.

Maybe, but frankly they should just be glad of their beautiful curls IMO. ;) My mother is a curly...a REALLY curly. She's probably a 3b or more-ish? She's always moaned about wishing she had my hair, which is a 1b/1c maybe. (When it was shoulder length it was more of a 2) I've always told her to be grateful for her hair, because I admire how curly hair seems to always look nice, even when "messy." Plus it never gets flat to her head like mine does!

But then we all seem to wish for what we don't have, don't we?

[Kherome]

That's what I used to say and I still aply it on myself but it makes no sense when you're talking about high 3's and 4's. They can visually be APL/BSL or shorter but be waist, tailbone or even classic stretched with all the problems and issues others at classic have.

I say let everyone decide for themselves. If you feel it's waist then it's waist no matter if it looks much shorter.


Yep, I agree anyone can say whatever they want about their hair. But to me, claiming a stretched milestone is much like buying a pair of vanity sized jeans...you know you're not a size two, but your pants can say you are! Haha

[Kherome]

Double Post!

[Tangle or Curl?]

I call it the stretched length. As a 3A, If I grow a certain length of shaft, that's how long I'm going to call it. It would be like saying I have 7 years of growth, but it's only 4 years of length worth long. Doesn't make sense. Especially when I can take a shower or go swimming and have hair hanging at waist...I'm not going to call it BSL just because when it is super dry and styled that's where it sits some of the time.

[cat11]

To me, regardless of wave/curl/straight, you haven't reached a milestone unless it's unstretched.

Yep, same. If I measured my hair straightened it would be a couple inches longer. I would ~personally~ feel like I was cheating, and I literally never wear my hair straight, its been years. I wouldn't feel right calling myself BSL if it never actually looked like that outside of my bathroom/shower.

[Tangle or Curl?]

Yep, same. If I measured my hair straightened it would be a couple inches longer. I would ~personally~ feel like I was cheating, and I literally never wear my hair straight, its been years. I wouldn't feel right calling myself BSL if it never actually looked like that outside of my bathroom/shower.

If I followed this I think it would get too complicated. Would end up sounding something like "In the morning on a non-wash day it is waist length, a couple hours later it is mid-back, on a humid day it is BSL, and on a dry day it is almost waist". I'll stick with the length of hair that I have taken the time to grow does not change with the weather. :P Curls are odd that way.

[cathair]

I keep a note of both. I don't know if I would call it bsl/waist/hip etc unless it looked like that un-stretched [my hair is too fairy tailed to call it any of those things with any certainty anyway]. I don't consider these to be real measurements anyway, just visual markers. But if I am measuring in inches or centimeters then it only makes sense to measure stretched to the longest point.

I don't feel that you can measure wavy or curly hair accurately unless it is stretched. The measurements would change based on how much wave or curl you happened to have that day or even what angle you were looking at it from. If it is stretched, at least the measurements will always be measuring the same thing.

I don't feel like this is cheating at all, it's not a competition, it's for keeping track of how much your own hair grows.

[Madora]

Personally, I claim a new length when my hair is visually that length (waist, etc.). No stretching. I feel for the tight curlies who long for waist and longer hair. Their journey takes such a long time (not to mention the extra careful pampering when dealing with very curly hair).

[Theobroma]

If I followed this I think it would get too complicated. Would end up sounding something like "In the morning on a non-wash day it is waist length, a couple hours later it is mid-back, on a humid day it is BSL, and on a dry day it is almost waist". I'll stick with the length of hair that I have taken the time to grow does not change with the weather. :P Curls are odd that way.

Yes, this is exactly why I go by the stretched measurement. My shrinkage is only a couple of inches at the most, maybe three just after airdrying, but still, I'd have to assess my length differently every day and that's just ridiculous!

[spidermom]

In the past, I'd call my length as it appeared naturally wavy because that's what people saw. I gave up measuring pretty quickly because even stretched or straightened, I'd get different measurements if I did it even twice in a row. So I decided to stick with what I saw in the mirror on a typical day.

I'm not very concerned with length right now but have other priorities, like actually enjoying my hair like I rarely did when I had to wear it in buns almost all the time. It's layered from around APL to just past waist, and I even have a bit of layering right at shoulder length. So what length should I call it now? I don't care.

[MinderMutsig]

This is basically the same discussion as whether you should define your length in cm/inches or by bodymarker. Short people say body markers because that makes their hair look longer than it actually is, tall people say cm/inches because body markers can take ages and cm/inches is more exact. The same is true for straight haired people and curlies.

There are people on here at classic with the same number in cm/inches as me and curlies that appear to have shorter hair than me with more cm/inches. Measuring body markers is fun and all but pretty useless when talking about how long your hair is, what you can do with it and what issues you have to deal with. And those things are pretty much what this forum is all about.

[sumidha]

I'm not a monthly measurer or anything, so I usually end up noticing my hair's a little longer after I get out of the shower and it's wet, I guess technically that's the 'stretched' length?

I don't think you'll ever get everyone on the same measuring system, there's too many factors, so I'd say just try to be self consistent and enjoy. :)

[bunzfan]

I go by body markers because two measurements are never the same even on the same day, I'm short so what is waist on me is bsl on others can't help that really still took a Year from bsl to waist.

[ExpectoPatronum]

When actually measuring my length, I go by stretched. If I don't stretch it, I might not notice any growth at all since the waves usually hide any length I've gained.

[kaydana]

Yep, I agree anyone can say whatever they want about their hair. But to me, claiming a stretched milestone is much like buying a pair of vanity sized jeans...you know you're not a size two, but your pants can say you are! Haha

I guess that's easy for someone with straight hair to say. When your visual length can vary dramatically based on the weather, when you last washed/brushed it, how you've been wearing it etc, it's something of a different story. An unstretched milestone might mean something for you, but I may as well put the last 3-4 milestones in a hat and pick one out at random, it would tell me just as much. I call it when it's dry and pulled straight, because, given that I wear my hair up every day, that is the length that I'm actually working with on a daily basis. If someone who doesn't understand the way wavy hair behaves thinks that's cheating, I can live with that.

[bunzfan]

I go by body markers because two measurements are never the same even on the same day, I'm short so what is waist on me is bsl on others can't help that really still took a Year from bsl to waist.

[molljo]

Yep, I agree anyone can say whatever they want about their hair. But to me, claiming a stretched milestone is much like buying a pair of vanity sized jeans...you know you're not a size two, but your pants can say you are! Haha

I don't think this is entirely fair at all. If anything, stretched is the most honest, because you are literally measuring the length of the hair. You can take a quart of water and either put it in a basin or a vase, it looks entirely different, but it's still a quart.
Since I still have a lot of weird layers, measuring doesn't really work for me, but depending on where I am in my wash cycle and/or the weather, the wave/poof factor can drastically change how long it appears. Because of this, I just take the average of wave/poof and straight/flat and call it even.

[woolyleprechaun]

I call milestones stretched, but I don't go public with the achievement until it hits it wavy ;)

[Sarahlabyrinth]

I call milestones stretched, but I don't go public with the achievement until it hits it wavy ;)

Me too! I can technically be at a milestone and yet may not yet actually look it. But never feel properly there until it is visually there.

[Beborani]

For me the most important criteria is well-groomed look and that happens when I wear it curly with lots of leave in conditioners--the hair clumps nicely and stays in place--It has even been called glamorous which I find amusing as that requires least effort. As to length measurements, I cant see body markers from front and dont keep looking at the back, so every once in a while I measure it stretched just to keep track of growth--mostly to estimate my annual growth rate and trim frequencies. It really is a personal preference and type of hair-those whose hair dont curl may not understand 6-10 inches or more shrinkage that changes with weather, climate and styling methods.

[Quixii]

I take note of both. There's too much variability in hair dry and curly. Some days it'll look just past classic, some days fingertip, some days past fingertip. Hair pulled straight is consistent - it's straight, and that's how long it is. That's the literal length of my hair coming out of my head. But it doesn't seem to count for much when I don't see it that way often.

On the occasions I do wear my hair down-ish, I actually get asked, "Oh, your hair is so long! But how long is it if it were straight?" So I guess even random other people care about both. xP

Personally, I won't "call" a body marker until I'm there at least most of the time when dry. But I will do a moment of celebration if I hit it when straight.

[neko_kawaii]

I take note of both. There's too much variability in hair dry and curly. Some days it'll look just past classic, some days fingertip, some days past fingertip. Hair pulled straight is consistent - it's straight, and that's how long it is. That's the literal length of my hair coming out of my head. But it doesn't seem to count for much when I don't see it that way often.

On the occasions I do wear my hair down-ish, I actually get asked, "Oh, your hair is so long! But how long is it if it were straight?" So I guess even random other people care about both. xP

Personally, I won't "call" a body marker until I'm there at least most of the time when dry. But I will do a moment of celebration if I hit it when straight.

I am also of this mind and I loose very little length to my waves. Measurements are pulled straight because they are consistent and body markers are dry.

[Sharysa]

I only lose a couple of inches since I'm a borderline wavy (1c/2a), and I also like using braid-waves to bump my hair up to 2b.

I call it both stretched and unstretched, because I'm lucky to have minor waves, fast growth, and to be short.

[Lyv]

My hair is wavy but when I measure I usually brush out the waves and pull it straight to get the number of inches but for body markers I go by where it is when it's waviest since that's what people see.

[OurAtronach]

I gauge when it's stretched, only because the waviness/fluffiness factor varies day-to-day and if I were basing my milestones on what other people saw, well, then I'd always be ear length. Because of up-dos. Nobody ever sees my hair down. Get it? And if I happened to care all of a sudden, then I would celebrate twice for each milestone; stretched and unstretched. I don't see a downside to that. ;)

[lapushka]

Well, I'm not that wavy that the dry unstretched hair doesn't catch up with the stretched hair quite fast.

[woodswanderer]

I measure unstretched. However, if I were really curly, I would measure inches as stretched and body markers as unstretched, as one is actual, and one is the appearance.

[CousinItt]

Definitely stretched. Otherwise, my impatient little brain would lose hope. I already feel like I'm going nowhere in the mid-back abyss, and if stretching the measure means i get out of here faster, then I have to do what I have to do.

[Rushli]

I stretched it to measure, because for me, it is the most consistent. Plus my bottom layer is pretty straight; my waves are up front. If it was not, I am pretty sure I would keep track of both. Probably measure it stretched in inches and just keep track of body markers of the visual growth.

[DweamGoiL]

I measure stretched although I am not so wavy that it's only a negligible difference. Usually, if I measure unstretched, it is the 'visual' length with a good inch or two curled up and out at the ends. Doesn't seem very accurate to me. Like Spidermom, length is not a huge deal for me anymore. I grew out my hair years ago to a length that started to become unmanageable. Now, I also have long layers and I just enjoy my hair, but don't fixate on how long it is.

[DarkSunny]

I go with stretched, because whether my hair is at tailbone, waist or sometimes even mid-back depends on whether it was brushed or not brushed that day, wet or dry, curling up in humid weather, etc. To measure it wavy or curled is essentially pointless because I would be losing or gaining inches daily depending on all of the factors above.

It isn't lying to myself, it isn't making me feel better about my length, it's a way to actually get a consistent measurement of how much growth I have without having to log negative growth on some days (which really just makes no sense).

[Browneyedbelle9]

It's hard for wavy/curly girls because some days it feels super long because of the way it dried and some days it shrinks up more.

I can't tell if mine is bsl or not. While straightening and stretching shows length the way it hangs wavy is how i determine my length when the piece touches my (ahem) boob by itself or gets stuck (under-my-underarms- does this happen to you?) then I know it's length by wave- I'd say unstretched and stretched I measure

[flemeister]

I do the middle road, and measure/check when my hair is sopping wet. It's not quite stretched, but also not as wavy and curly as when it's dry. :)

As for inches/cm vs. body markers, I prefer body markers because I mainly care about how long the hair *looks* on that person's overall body profile. Eg. waist length hair on a young/short child looks just as awesome as waist length on a much taller adult, even though the lengths of hair are quite different. It also means not having to update my user profile as often, and each body marker is a big achievement. Perhaps a bigger deal than if you measured in both inches/cm and body markers. :)

[CurlyCap]

This is a Wavy thread, but just chipping in.

Lol. I definitely call it stretched!

I'm 3b/3c. My hair is cruising past hip, but still can curl up to APL. If it's a humid day or the wrong products, certain sections can be even shorter. I know how much hair it takes to get curls even to APL, and yep...that's a couple of feet and then some.

My Type 4 friends have it worst. They hope for SL hair...which is still almost classic.

Those curls just don't come from magic. It's a LOT of hair, formed into a 3-dimensional shape. My goal is hip-length curly....which I know is asking for strong-healthy mid-thigh hair. That is SUPER long by any definition.

So, for curlies, I totally see why people play by different rules.

As for how it's "seen", I've noticed that changes too. If the person I'm meeting is only familiar with straight hair, I say "Look for a black lady with hair past her shoulders." If my friend is black or familiar with curly hair, it's more appropriate to say, "Look for a lady with mid-tone skin and long hair." They find me instantly.

Just some thoughts.

[chen bao jun]

I get so irritated every time this subject comes up. It's like we supercurlies can say until we are blue in the face that is literally impossible to measure without stretching our hair and people still make ridiculous remarks like the one about it being like cheating with jeans sizes. How rude as well as completely clueless. Really. That's acting like long hair is some kind of a competition that people would have to 'cheat' at because its just soooo important to say you're somewhere that other people thing you are not.
Ok, that's my vent. Now on to answering the question. I usually say both. I will say my hair is such and such a length unstretched but that it's actually this other length stretched because of my curls. I know it is important to say what it looks like visually because if I wear it loose that's what people see. And I'm fine with that. I've said many time, I would not want to give up being a curly because of the sproing factor (shrinkage) because that is actually what makes my hair beautiful. BUT I also give the true length, stretched, because that's important information, too. For instance, during the last month I have been able to make the lazy wrap bun, finally, because my hair is actually bottom brastrap length. Should I tell people that I am making the lazy wrap bun at shoulder, because my hair happens to look like shoulder? I think this would be rather misleading. In order words, you may not be able to see the length (and I actually do not care whether you can or not) but is there and makes a difference in how the hair behaves that is important when giving out information.
Also, as others keep pointing out (until THEY are blue in the face) I would never be able to keep track of my hair growth if I did not measure stretched. It's a different length not only every day but sometimes even at different times of the same day. And I don't mean like a half inch different length, either. two or three or even five inches. And it happens I want to keep track of my growth at the moment because I am in growing mode. Sorry if that makes some feel that I am 'cheating'.
i am not 'frustrated' to be a curly, I do not think it is a problem to be a curly and grow hair as a lot of people in my family have curls and have grown very long hair, I don't mind waiting for my hair to 'look' longer, but I AM frustrated by the attitude, poor you, you have curls, I'm so sorry you have to lie to yourself about your hair length (or else, let's be nice, let's let the curlies pretend their hair is longer than it is even though we all know that only straight hair really counts).

[Marbid]

Lol... Um as a curly myself... I cant categorize the length as it is visually because it changes day by day...

Some days my curls are all tight and shrink as far as lower bra strap... It lengthens as it gets near wash day all the way to waist.... When i wear my hair in braid waves ( what i do most of the time since its easier to manage and bun that way.) it goes to hip (im just shy if 5 feet tall. There is not much distance between waist and hip on me)

So you see.... This is how curly hair behaves most of the time on most people with curly hair. We cant claim a length vissually because that vissuall length varies day by day based in weather, moisture in your hair, buns, braids, length of time till wash day. Only persistent way i measure my hair is when it has braid waves, as i find that it is the most consistent in that state and i can wear it out for vissuall length.

Every one is different. I understand the waivy people, their hair has shrinkage, but the shrinkage is consistent. So they can claim their milestones with their hair in its natural state. For people whose state of hair is not consistent, i think they should find a state of hair that is consistent regardless of weather and what not, and use that to claim hair milestones.

[bunzfan]

Had no idea what I had started myself on wash day I can easily loose a few inches to shrinkage so I claim new lengths when you can see it that length wavy.. I can totally understand the frustration super curlies have I'd still love your curls though.

[Heavy Raindrops]

Wavy, but I don't have very wavy hair anyway so it almost makes no difference when my hair is stretched. :p

[mariakatija]

I count hair milestones unstretched but I measure my hair stretched.

[Beborani]

As a wavy who can display it straight I absolutely prefer the curly look as it is so easy to look *good* and presentable. I keep my hair straight only on days I dont care about my appearance and put it up in a bun. So my straight hair is never seen. I I agree with chen bao chen that there is some weird bias against curly hair in some of the posts. And as someone else pointed out if youre wearing your hair up then no one sees your length, so it doesnt exist? Weird competition I must say.

The same thing happens with thickness--my fine straight haired daughter has more density than I do when I look at the scalp but measuring her thickness, you'd never know. If I didnt have her as a daughter, I would never understand that. It is best to take people's self evaluation at face value and move on--we lose nothing by acknowledging their length, thickness, curliness etc and being supportive.

[chen bao jun]

Thanks, Beborani.
I didn't mean to blast out at everybody, because it definitely wasn't everybody displaying the 'bias' (what I noticed more was actually the condescension). I also sort of let loose not just at this thread, but because everytime the subject comes up on LHC, its the same thing. There was a thread not long ago where a curly haired woman proudly showed off her growth, stretching her hair out with her hand and people were really not very nice as they pretty much all informed her that she was 'cheating' by taking a photo like this. Left a bad taste, sort of like people not even TRYING to understand.
And I agree, telling people that their hair is not thick is also very odd. I'm sorry your daughter goes through that. It does seem a lot of women are a bit competitive about hair or at least like to put others down at least a little.

[DarkSunny]

Lol... Um as a curly myself... I cant categorize the length as it is visually because it changes day by day...


Some days my curls are all tight and shrink as far as lower bra strap... It lengthens as it gets near wash day all the way to waist.... When i wear my hair in braid waves ( what i do most of the time since its easier to manage and bun that way.) it goes to hip (im just shy if 5 feet tall. There is not much distance between waist and hip on me)


So you see.... This is how curly hair behaves most of the time on most people with curly hair. We cant claim a length vissually because that vissuall length varies day by day based in weather, moisture in your hair, buns, braids, length of time till wash day. Only persistent way i measure my hair is when it has braid waves, as i find that it is the most consistent in that state and i can wear it out for vissuall length.


Every one is different. I understand the waivy people, their hair has shrinkage, but the shrinkage is consistent. So they can claim their milestones with their hair in its natural state. For people whose state of hair is not consistent, i think they should find a state of hair that is consistent regardless of weather and what not, and use that to claim hair milestones.



I actually love seeing the length change as wash day approaches. Seeing an accelerated change like that makes the impatient part of my brain kind of satisfied in the short term as I wait for the actual length to grow out. ;)

[Beborani]

Chen, I remember that young woman--not sure if I had posting privileges then but I was absolutely aghast at the insensitivity directed at her. I womder if she came back again to this forum.

[lapushka]

It does seem a lot of women are a bit competitive about hair or at least like to put others down at least a little.

That's sad, really. :( Why is it necessary!!!

[Ambystoma]

For me, I measure my body marker, then measure my hair against the marker when it's wet and being pressed straight by the water in the shower, since that gives a nice consistent result. Trying to measure it wavy would be a fools errand since it's so variable - I can get an easy 3 inches of shrinkage sometimes even at only 2b. If I were desperate for it to look it's full length all the time, there's always the flatiron :laugh: The whole notion of "cheating" is absolutely ridiculous - do people with straighter hair think that they have actually lost physical length from their strands when they curl it?

[0xalis]

Both! I get excited that I've reached a new milestone stretched, but I don't really "call" it until wavy. Like right now I'm at APL stretched both in front and back, but wavy my hair is still 1-2'' above APL.
I'm really grateful that my hair both has some wave to it to make it look nice and add volume, but at the same time it's still relatively straight so I don't lose much length to shrinkage. It is a bit frustrating though, as my long neck and torso + shrinkage make "shorter" milestones a lot harder for me to reach.

ETA: I agree very much with chen bao jun, and I actually find it offensive to say that someone is "cheating" when they stretch their hair.
If you aren't losing MANY INCHES or even FEET of length due to shrinkage like they are, then when you say "it only counts unstretched!" you're being a jerk. Period.

[bunzfan]

I thought i would see by wearing it as wavy as it would go how much length i would loose as i class myself as a 2a/b and holy wave shrinkage

Brushed out

http://imageshack.com/a/img594/6945/2rpn.jpg

Wavy

http://imageshack.com/a/img826/4153/rsvh.jpg

[flemeister]

I thought i would see by wearing it as wavy as it would go how much length i would loose as i class myself as a 2a/b and holy wave shrinkage

Brushed out

http://imageshack.com/a/img594/6945/2rpn.jpg

Wavy

http://imageshack.com/a/img826/4153/rsvh.jpg
Looks like a good 2~3 inches difference there. Your hair looks great in both photos. :)

[MissBubble]

I measure my hair when straight because waves/curls are different every time and I want an accurate measuring in order to know how much they grow.
But for reaching a milestone, I consider mission accomplished when I reach it with my hair in natural texture.

[Soltimus]

Hmm, well. I think for me personally I'll stretch my hair to see how long it has become, but it won't count properly for me until it reaches its goal unstretched.
Regarding measuring or going by body markers I'd say I do both. I do measure my hair and note it down in my profile, but it's something I don't do very often because I sort of forget, ha ha. I think it makes sense using both as it says more about your personal progress and what you need when asking for advice about updos etc.

[LadyCelestina]

I claim both.
Just because I have hair that looks waist length,it doesn't mean it acts like waist length hair in all aspects.It just looks waist.
Also,it's like birthday twice a year :P I'll get to claim TBL and hip this year,I find that cool ! :D

[Johannah]

I measure when stretched, but I use milestones not stretched. It's just what you prefer, I don't think there are rules for this.

[LadyCelestina]

People come here and discuss hair deliberately,we are not in a competition,nobody is judging anybody,thus there is no reason to get angry or offended over hair length :flower:

[Wildcat Diva]

When I'm judging my own hair, I call it wavy and dry and unstretched because that is what makes sense to me. If a person asks me for an opinion, I will take whatever presentation of hair they are giving me to look at and say if I think what they are presenting has met the body marker they are discussing.

I try not to really worry about what other people do, however for some reason it can annoy me when someone chooses to refer to their hair as BSL length for instance, when it clearly looks inches away, be it curly or wavy or straight... "they must wear their bra up really high." Now if someone's hair is really curly, I admit, I have had a bit of a learning curve, and I now understand shrinkage, so that's something I understand better now and don't think twice about.

Head tilt in length shots often annoys me, even in my own, when I notice a two inch difference in the same photo session because of an angle or head tilt that I wasn't aware of. I should just not look at hair photos length shots, honestly, my own or other people's. My analytical/ detail focused mind becomes a problem at this point, and it's hard to enjoy them. That's what they are there for silly, enjoyment! So the markers can really be a distraction from that purpose for me.

I should just not worry about it, but I do admit it throws me for a loop sometimes. It really shouldn't matter to me. It's your hair, you can call it what you want. Call it "Bob" if you want to (I just snapped that that IS a style/length LOL).

ETA: On "judging anybody": This word judging always gets me. It seems, if I have a thought or opinion or observation, I am pretty close to making a judgement. I can't really so much tell the difference. If we are saying that we love someone's hair, that it looks beautiful, we are making a judgement, are we not? I need to look up that word again, because it really gets in my way quite a bit nowdays.

Also, anytime I mention this, people seem to assume that I am the kind of person who says rude things or hurtful things, or looks for the bad in people just to make them feel bad or be spiteful. I don't think I am this kind of person. I try quite often to lift people up. Sometimes I do make comments out of ignorance, as I am sure quite a few of us do, if we are willing to admit it.

[chen bao jun]

She's still here, thank goodness. But I see her more in the 4's thread than anywhere, although she is actually like a 3a or b. Though it is really all curls, right, in any case? I'm 3c, I like reading what the 4's post and I also like reading what the other curlies do and taking from both 'higher' and 'lower' (which is an odd way to phrase it but you know what I mean--higher and lower numbers)

I haven't seen her post length shots again but that may be a coincidence.

Wildcat Diva, I like your post. Definitely we judge all the time. And I have never read a mean post from you :)
I'm ready to let this one go--sorry again for the blast, it was more frustration than anger. Enjoying reading from what the rest of you do.

Chen, I remember that young woman--not sure if I had posting privileges then but I was absolutely aghast at the insensitivity directed at her. I womder if she came back again to this forum.

[LadyCelestina]

I'm not a native speaker,but I always thought "judging somebody" had a negative connotation to it,meaning something along the lines "oh you have this and that,you must do this and this,I don't like that, and you know what,I'll behave like what I think is true and be nasty to you"? Not sure,guess I'll have to look it up as well :D

I hope you didn't try to find any ill intentions in my post? If you found any,I'm terribly sorry then.ETA: And also paranoid that this sounds bad again :D does it?

[Beborani]

I read the curly girl handbook by Massey (?) that classifies hair by shrinkage and that categorizations works best for me than 2s, 3s and 4s--I can never place myself accurately in these. I found upto 6 inches shrinkage when my hair was in perfect spiral waves. It was an eyeopener. Wildcat, yes those bodymarkers pictures taken with phone in mirrors are deceptive--Some of those pictures are most flattering for me--I dont mean the length exactly but the shape--I hope my hair looks like that in real life too at least sometimes.

As for bodymarkers until I came here only two markers that I have noticed in my life are shoulders (when short) and bcl (when long)! Bsl eludes me as do waist/hip, I call them all midback.

[Wildcat Diva]

...

Wildcat Diva, I like your post. Definitely we judge all the time. And I have never read a mean post from you :)
I'm ready to let this one go--sorry again for the blast, it was more frustration than anger. Enjoying reading from what the rest of you do.

Phew, I'm glad you did (like it), because I was worried that it was going to come off wrong. It's been hard on here to do the dance of honest communication balanced with tact and kindness, and all the while try to keep from being misunderstood in cyberspace.


I'm not a native speaker,but I always thought "judging somebody" had a negative connotation to it,meaning something along the lines "oh you have this and that,you must do this and this,I don't like that, and you know what,I'll behave like what I think is true and be nasty to you"? Not sure,guess I'll have to look it up as well :D

No, you are right, it DOES have a negative connotation, but using "judgement" means to make a decision, and these related terms are "kin" to each other in a way I find ironic (which was probably confusing as all get out, in my post, sorry). I think that judging gets a rap of being negative, but I see it like you make "judgments" every time you have an opinion, when you say something is good or bad, or use an adjective. When people say "I don't judge", I'm not even sure what that means, does it mean they do not have any opinions about anything?

Being judgmental for sure has a more negative interpretation, implying that you are prejudiced against that person in a negative light.

I just find these terms fascinating, and am a bit amused at the idea of people "not judging" other people, in the way I see the term.