Newbie Bun Damage?

[Tearna-Maree]

Hi, I have about 10cm of virgin hair as regrowth the rest is dyed blonde and has been previously damaged severely from the dye and heat styling etc. I have been trying to wear my hair up to reduce damage and on the last day of stretching my washes (usually day 3-4) I put my hair in what I believe is called a cinnamon bun. (I put it in a ponytail and twist it into a bun and secure with a scrunchie and whenever I take it out my ends are always ruined they are all crushed looking and have right angles so I usually just s&d them off but it's only some the others are fine just some get destroyed! Am I doing anything wrong or is my hair too damaged for this style. Has it got anything to do with anything I put in my hair before I do this that is allow it too bend eg coconut oil??

[cranberrymoonz]

It is definetely not good for hair to be bend that way. It damages the core of the strands. But I would wait trimming them off immediately, usually the strands return to their original state after a while. I helps to gently brush them through or to wet them a little. To prevent damage, I would try to make the bun without elastics. I don't know if your hair is long enough for it, but I usually secure my cinnebuns with spin pins or a little claw clip that I sanded the edges of. Elastics put a strain on the hair. Also, make sure not to twist the bun too tight and to tuck the ends in well.

good luck!

Edit to add: Yes, overuse of coconut oil can do that! Try not to use it too often. Either to seal in moisture on out-of-the-shower damp hair, or use it as a pre-wash. Don't use coconut oil every single time you bun your hair. It'll make it behave weird, crunchy & velcro-like.

[Tearna-Maree]

Thankyou, I'll try tuck my ends in. Im not sure if my hair is long enough, it's 30 inches. I'm looking into getting hair forks or hair sticks. Are soft fabric scrunchies damaging? I don't use hair elastics I use the old fashion ones made from fabric haha. Yes I have been over using coconut oil then! My hair feels horrid, I wash it then ones it's dry in lightly oil (a fingernail scraping each side from earlobes down) and then I pretty much do that every day and heavily on my ends and then before I wash it and my hair is gunky like dust gets stuck to it lol and kinda crunchy which I now know why.. I've Ben trying to stretch my washes also but am worried about dry ends, I now always leave a day, I average 2 days inner week washes e.g wash, leave a day, leave a day, wash - and I count that as 2 days inbetween, but when I have no where to go I usually leave 3-4 but my ends are crunchy.. Must be the over use of coconut oil??

[Isilme]

I suspected your hair gets that way because it has been over processed. Try to do your bun without elastics and if that isn't possible use snag free elastics; they are soft and don't have any glue or mental that holds them together.
ETA. I see you are using coconut oil, try and use it on damp hair and if that doesn't work stop using the oil. Most people here are happy with oils but I found they made my ends dry and crunchy when I was growing out damage. Sometimes damaged hair can be very temperamental. It likes moisture but not heavy conditioners, my hair despised any kind of oil. Two rounds with different brands of red box dye was enough, really put the nail in the coffin for my great hair and took years to regrow.

[Tearna-Maree]

I don't know how to bun without using an elastic but I don't use elastics anyways especially ones with metal or glue I use soft fabric scrunchies like the ones school kids wear haha

[Isilme]

Well, then you should be fine. It is just the finicky nature of damaged hair. See my edited version of my post above.

[Tearna-Maree]

Thankyou yes the edited version was helpful! I have been using it too much because I didn't know any better I had the "can never hav too much of a good thing philosophy!" Oops, I'll ease up and only use a little on damp hair just after washing. I will was it tomorrow sometime and also put in a protein mask as I was told hat would help with my blonde highlighed, blonde box dyed damaged hair. When using masks like this should I wash, then put it in then condition?? I'm such a newbie..

[Tearna-Maree]

I might also just avoid bunning it whilst it's growing out it's not worth it I'll stick to a side plait or plait straight down my back secured with a the srunchie I mentioned my hair seems to like that, I just worry about exposed ends as I've heard keeping them unexposed was better for reducing damage. I only really wear it down on special occasions.

[lapushka]

(I put it in a ponytail and twist it into a bun and secure with a scrunchie and whenever I take it out my ends are always ruined they are all crushed looking and have right angles so I usually just s&d them off but it's only some the others are fine just some get destroyed! Am I doing anything wrong or is my hair too damaged for this style. Has it got anything to do with anything I put in my hair before I do this that is allow it too bend eg coconut oil??

The right angles are *normal*. After all your hair has been in an updo. I'd try using a hair fork or hair stick of some kind, or spin pins for that matter. It's better than the restrictiveness of a scrunchie or elastic. Do not snip those ends off. After a wash, they'll be just fine! There's going to be a multitude and you don't need to trim instead of S&D, which I suspect you might be doing.

[restless]

... I put my hair in what I believe is called a cinnamon bun. (I put it in a ponytail and twist it into a bun and secure with a scrunchie and whenever I take it out my ends are always ruined they are all crushed looking and have right angles so I usually just s&d them off but it's only some the others are fine just some get destroyed!

Hm... whenever I put my hair up in a bun I also get those bent ends. I think its inevitable as a head contains 100 000+ hairs. Cant make them all lay straight at once. However, that is not damage that needs to be cut off- as soon as the hair gets wet again, they disappear. Does yours do that as well then youre good to go.

However, if youre talking about 90 degree angles where there is a white dot and the hair literally snaps off at the angle when you pull a little- THEN we´re talking damage that needs to be cut off.

If you dont wanna continue with the scrunchies then theres plenty of good options- take a look in the forum "conventional products and hair acessories". Sticks, hair forks, ficcares... :)

[Firefox7275]

Switch to a loose Spin Pin bun: they are really easy, ends are protected, no damaging elastic in the same spot every time.

When you use protein it needs to be hydrolysed. Then simply listen to your hair, if your hair feels like I needs a conditioner afterwards use one. Some products are protein and conditioner in one. Personally I use a lot of leave in conditioner on m porous colour treated hair, that reduces water exposure which is damaging.

[Anje]

Yep, no more securing your bun with elastics or scrunchies. In addition to kinking the ends, it makes a very small section of your hair (the part connecting to the top of your ponytail) support all the weight, which can lead to a lot of breakage, especially in fine hair. Hairsticks, hairforks, U-shaped hairpins (treat them like tiny hairforks), spin pins, and even octopus clips are much better at supporting your hair without harming your ends and without pulling.

[Kaelee]

The right angles are *normal*. After all your hair has been in an updo. I'd try using a hair fork or hair stick of some kind, or spin pins for that matter. It's better than the restrictiveness of a scrunchie or elastic. Do not snip those ends off. After a wash, they'll be just fine! There's going to be a multitude and you don't need to trim instead of S&D, which I suspect you might be doing.

This. My hair looks all kinds of destroyed after I take it down somedays. It has so far always bounced right back. :)

[Madora]

I don't know how to bun without using an elastic but I don't use elastics anyways especially ones with metal or glue I use soft fabric scrunchies like the ones school kids wear haha

To bun without using an elastic as a base:

1 Gently detangle hair with a wide tooth comb
2 Grab your hair as if you were going to ponytail but divide it in two sections instead
3 Take one section and twist it around the other...all the way down to the end
4 Take the twisted result and form a coil. Hold it flat against your scalp with one hand. Pin with crimped hairpins with your other hand.

Be SURE to leave a little slack at the top when you begin to twist. Never twist tightly at the beginning.

[Tearna-Maree]

Ah ok, I've just been so obsessed with it growing and being healthy that I freaked out whenever I saw that some of the hairs of my ends looked damaged/crushed/at right angles I just freaked out and trimmed them all because they were bent some were just curved at a right angle and I thought they would have gone back after a wash but never gave them a chance which I will next time just the others were bent and there was no way they were going back without breaking off in the near future it's not much of the hair just the last less than 1cm. I'll try and get a hold of some hair toys that would suit my hair better it's 30 inches is that long enough to use anything? I'll also just leave the ends and wash them next time to see of they return to normal. Thankyou :))

[Snorman]

Don't know if anyone suggested it, but SPIN PINS! <3 I love them, they are so easy, they won't damage your hair (as far as I know), and it looks really good! You just spin them in and you bun stays in place even in the night! :D


ETA; wow, I'm so blind... I saw at least 3 others on THIS VERY PAGE that suggested spin pins. Can't believe I didn't see them.. Anyway; It's true. Spin pins rock!

[Tearna-Maree]

When you use protein it needs to be hydrolysed. Then simply listen to your hair, if your hair feels like I needs a conditioner afterwards use one. Some products are protein and conditioner in one. Personally I use a lot of leave in conditioner on m porous colour treated hair, that reduces water exposure which is damaging.[/QUOTE]

I'll post the name of the mask I bought, I asked the lady on the shop for a protein mask and she gave me this one - it's called "Joico K-PAK Reconstruct for damaged hair. It says "contains QUADRAMINE COMPLEX" and in the ingredients the only thing that says hydrolysed is "hydrolysed hair keratin" and "laurdimonium hydropropyl hydrolysed keratin" so I think that it's good and hydrolysed like what you reccomened. Is the correct procedure wash, apply protein mask, rinse, apply conditioner if needed.
I hardly know anything about my hair like is my hair pourus? It is box dyed blonde in the past (bad I know!!)

[night owl]

Oh my goodness, Madora, your instructions are the best thing ever! I've always put my hair up in what I think is sometimes called the ballerina bun, or perhaps the cinnamon bun here, and the weight of the bun has always been a problem. Even if I don't use an elastic (my curly hair has enough texture sometimes to hold the bun by itself), I always get that dull ache right behind the bun. I just followed your instructions and can barely tell I've got my hair up! It feels much more like the weight of the hair from when I pull the crown up into a barrette. I really haven't had time to peruse the how-to section here for updos--sadly, not even on the thread I started!--but I am going to have to do that someday soon! Just as soon as I finish all these monster projects at work. Which could be March. Sigh.

Anyway, I don't want to completely hijack this thread, so I thought I would offer what I usually do with my bun ends. I generally tuck the last 2 inches or so back up through the center of the bun. Depending on what mood my hair is in, sometimes it will catch inside the bun in a half-loop, creating a nice wave at the ends when I take it down. If it pokes all the way through, it again depends on my hair's mood as to whether it sticks out or provides a little bit of curl interest. Usually, though, it stays inside the bun. Then when I wrap the elastic I use a finger to keep tabs on where the end is to make sure the elastic doesn't crunch the ends. And by elastic I mean a skinny scrunchie--I only use the skinny black jersey scrunchies that I think have 1/4" elastic banding in them, not the usual round ponytail elastic. They're small enough to usually disappear behind my bun.

I'm still so impressed with my new bun technique! I don't have a scrunchie, so I just stuck a pencil through it. It hasn't moved an inch! Now I might actually be able to use some of the seriously awesome chopsticks my boss brought me from China last year! Yay!! :) :) :)

[Firefox7275]

I'll post the name of the mask I bought, I asked the lady on the shop for a protein mask and she gave me this one - it's called "Joico K-PAK Reconstruct for damaged hair. It says "contains QUADRAMINE COMPLEX" and in the ingredients the only thing that says hydrolysed is "hydrolysed hair keratin" and "laurdimonium hydropropyl hydrolysed keratin" so I think that it's good and hydrolysed like what you reccomened. Is the correct procedure wash, apply protein mask, rinse, apply conditioner if needed.
I hardly know anything about my hair like is my hair pourus? It is box dyed blonde in the past (bad I know!!)

Mine is box dyed blonde now underneath the bright berry pink I apply on top!! There are plenty of dyed heads here on LHC.

I would assume your dyed hair is higher porosity and lower elasticity. Proven beneficial ingredients include coconut oil (overnight pre wash on dry hair), ceramides, 18-MEA and panthenol. Protein is great but don't overdo in low dews/ winter or you risk ending up with dry tangly straw. That form of keratin is modified to be HIGHLY substantive (sticks very well to hair) so probably won't need redoing too often. You may be best not applying to any virgin (not dyed/ otherwise damaged) hair.

[lazuliblue]

even octopus clips are much better at supporting your hair without harming your ends and without pulling.

I discovered octopus clips yesterday. I am in LOVE with them! To the original poster: Try an octopus claw clip! I just twist my hair really gently into a bun, tuck the ends in and then put the clip over it. I realise it's only been a day but so far I'm very impressed and I'm hoping the clip will protect my hair from damage.

[Tearna-Maree]

I will have to try one out! Just the springs have a habit of tearing out my hair on the past so I have been reluctant to use clips with springs, I bought a hair stick on the week end and I love love love it! My hair does too it looks brilliant no knots or crunchy strange ends from the srunchie, I also haw stopped wearing one to secure the end of my plait that I tuck into my sleep cap at night I just plait it and tuck it in now and my my who knew such a small change coulda me such a big difference in like 2 days! I no longer want to chop my hair back to rid the damage because it's not there anymore!! Thankyou LHC