PDA

View Full Version : Hygral fatigue? Obviously overpressed hair



MissHoney
January 22nd, 2014, 01:26 PM
Hello :-D I'm new, but I've been a frequent lurker. I'm pretty sure my hair has hygral fatigue but I'll let you be the judge. I had issues making my new member post but long story short my hair was high-lifted, heat damaged to mush, dyed again, and heat styled until New Years (over 5 months). I want to stop using heat but my hair has been refusing to respond to any conditioning or air drying which it used to love. In the past when I made it mushy trying to go CG I improved my porosity with acv rinses, but now that my hair is colored blonde I don't know if I can use that. I tried olive oil and coconut oil on separate occasions but my hair just felt dry dipped in oil. It feels over-moisturized when wet but refusing to hold moisture when damp/dry.

Should I try some other type of acidic rinse? Any other suggestions?

lapushka
January 22nd, 2014, 01:52 PM
You could try white vinegar for your rinse instead of ACV. It won't deposit color and you use it the same way.

meteor
January 22nd, 2014, 01:57 PM
Not to discourage you, but you can't permanently "improve porosity" (i.e. reduce porosity), :( , you can only temporarily patch-repair it, add emolliency and condition it in a way that your hair will behave similarly to low porosity hair. Porosity is a genetic thing but damaging practices (e.g. heat, bleach, relaxers) increase it. This means, your hair will take longer to dry but conditioning ingredients (e.g. hydrolysed proteins, penetrating oils) will adsorb and penetrate much better, too! Use them to patch-repair.
For example, oil your hair overnight or longer using a penetrating oil (coconut, olive, avocado, palm), focusing on your colored-blonde ends the most. This prevents hygral fatigue the best.

Also, how often do you wash/wet your hair? If it doesn't happen too frequently, don't worry about it too much. If you wash often, consider dry shampoo in between and keep hair up on greasy days. Use cool settings on blow-dryers, or air-dry with some fans in a warm room to dry your hair quickly. Obviously, loose hair dries faster than contained hair.

When you use an acidic rinse, you sort of help smooth down the cuticles a bit temporarily and that gives shine and easier detangling. As a blonde, it's better to use a lemon rinse or a white vinegar rinse instead of your ACV. ACV is known for adding reddish tint to light hair.

meteor
January 22nd, 2014, 02:02 PM
This means, your hair will take longer to dry but conditioning ingredients (e.g. hydrolysed proteins, penetrating oils) will adsorb and penetrate much better, too! Use them to patch-repair.
For example, oil your hair overnight or longer using a penetrating oil (coconut, olive, avocado, palm), focusing on your colored-blonde ends the most. This prevents hygral fatigue the best.

And I really recommend reading this for effective patch-repair and conditioning: http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/10/deep-conditioning-what-ingredients-in.html
Proven penetrating ingredients:

"Natural Hair - No Processing
-water
-hydrolysed wheat protein
-coconut oil
-cetrimonium bromide
-caffeine
-panthenol

Bleached Hair, Relaxed Hair or Damaged Hair (i.e cuticle damage)
- everything in the unprocessed natural hair list above
-some amino acids enhanced by being in a creamy conditioner (arginine, glycine, glutamic acid, phenylalanine, histidine)
-artificial peptides (similar to hydrolysed protein)
-some silicones or amodimethicones (Trimethylsilylamodimethicone)
-hydrolysed palm oil
-18MEA"

Scarlet_Heart
January 22nd, 2014, 02:10 PM
Put the oils in after a wash while your hair is still wet. It might work out. Just don't use a ton, use a few drop to a small palmful. Comb it through.

MissHoney
January 22nd, 2014, 02:12 PM
Not to discourage you, but you can't permanently "improve porosity" (i.e. reduce porosity), :( , you can only temporarily patch-repair it, add emolliency and condition it in a way that your hair will behave similarly to low porosity hair. Porosity is a genetic thing but damaging practices (e.g. heat, bleach, relaxers) increase it. This means, your hair will take longer to dry but conditioning ingredients (e.g. hydrolysed proteins, penetrating oils) will adsorb and penetrate much better, too! Use them to patch-repair.
For example, oil your hair overnight or longer using a penetrating oil (coconut, olive, avocado, palm), focusing on your colored-blonde ends the most. This prevents hygral fatigue the best.

Also, how often do you wash/wet your hair? If it doesn't happen too frequently, don't worry about it too much. If you wash often, consider dry shampoo in between and keep hair up on greasy days. Use cool settings on blow-dryers, or air-dry with some fans in a warm room to dry your hair quickly. Obviously, loose hair dries faster than contained hair.

When you use an acidic rinse, you sort of help smooth down the cuticles a bit temporarily and that gives shine and easier detangling. As a blonde, it's better to use a lemon rinse or a white vinegar rinse instead of your ACV. ACV is known for adding reddish tint to light hair.

I didn't mean to say permanent improvement of the hair. I'm trying to improve my regimen, so that, like you described, it will behave properly. My hair dries very quickly, in a bad way, because it doesn't take in conditioning. This is what I need to work on, so that I can air-dry without the wirey dry mess.

As of now I wash my hair sporadically, sometimes shampoo sometimes cowash, trying to find a way to make my hair take in moisture. Straightening my hair allows me to go days without wetting it, but my hair is too textured (3c/4a) to air dry in a style I can keep the next day, at least not in its current condition.

I remember that ACV even affects the color of my brown hair.


Put the oils in after a wash while your hair is still wet. It might work out. Just don't use a ton, use a few drop to a small palmful. Comb it through.

Yea, that is exactly how I use my oils. :shrug: Stupid overprocessed hair.

meteor
January 22nd, 2014, 02:24 PM
As of now I wash my hair sporadically, sometimes shampoo sometimes cowash, trying to find a way to make my hair take in moisture. Straightening my hair allows me to go days without wetting it, but my hair is too textured (3c/4a) to air dry in a style I can keep the next day, at least not in its current condition.

To be perfectly honest, I would really recommend weaning off hair straightening using heat and learning to work with your texture rather than against it, especially since you already have some bleach damage (damage is cumulative, you can't un-do it). Flat irons are very damaging on dry and wet hair ("bubble hair" effect), even with the best heat protectants. Since your hair is 3c/4a, you are a perfect candidate for the Curly Girl Method, which involves CO-washing, finger-detangling wet hair doused in conditioner, scrunching, etc. Also, check out the Curly and Wurly Thread on the "Mane" Forum here.

MissHoney
January 22nd, 2014, 02:32 PM
To be perfectly honest, I would really recommend weaning off hair straightening using heat and learning to work with your texture rather than against it, especially since you already have some bleach damage (damage is cumulative, you can't un-do it). Flat irons are very damaging on dry and wet hair ("bubble hair" effect), even with the best heat protectants. Since your hair is 3c/4a, you are a perfect candidate for the Curly Girl Method, which involves CO-washing, finger-detangling wet hair doused in conditioner, scrunching, etc. Also, check out the Curly and Wurly Thread on the "Mane" Forum here.

Yea when I mentioned that my hair got mushy before, it was because I was doing the curly girl method. Way too much moisture, even though I only used suave/vo5 conditioner and gel. Switching to ACV and oil helped me grow it out, until I went back to cones.

I didn't mean that I heat style after my sporadic washes, sorry. I WAS heat styling to stretch my washes 10-14 days, but now I am trying to quit heat cold turkey. But since I cannot figure out how to make it presentable yet, I have been washing sporadically just to get decent looking hair since it won't wash and dry like it should. I hope that makes sense.

MissHoney
January 22nd, 2014, 02:36 PM
For example, I have curlformers... but my hair has been so wiry and porous that my hair doesn't retain enough water, sprayed on, for me to pull it through the curler. It's like a sponge that can't saturate. Normally I get excellent wet sets.

ejking2
January 22nd, 2014, 03:07 PM
IMO you need protein stat!! Pick up some ApHogee 2 minute reconstructor or another conditioner that's filled with protein. Leave it on for maybe 30 minutes. Follow it up with a nice moisturizing conditioner.

I second the suggestion for overnight coconut oil prewash treatments. Keep on CO-washing.

ETA: Do you use a leave-in conditioner? And as for making your hair presentable, what about twists/twist outs?

Anje
January 22nd, 2014, 03:27 PM
If you're describing your hair as mush, it's time for a protein treatment. Don't fool around with the rest of this stuff; go get some Aphogee 2-step and treat your hair before it dissolves. It's not hygral fatigue, it's loss of protein from your hair shafts.

MissHoney
January 22nd, 2014, 04:53 PM
IMO you need protein stat!! Pick up some ApHogee 2 minute reconstructor or another conditioner that's filled with protein. Leave it on for maybe 30 minutes. Follow it up with a nice moisturizing conditioner.

I second the suggestion for overnight coconut oil prewash treatments. Keep on CO-washing.

ETA: Do you use a leave-in conditioner? And as for making your hair presentable, what about twists/twist outs?

Unfortunately my hair doesn't hold twists very well. Braid outs make my hair look scalpy so I gave up on all of those type of stylings, I really only like curler type of styles but my hair isn't holding the water I need to get it smooth onto rollers, it's just crunchy. I want to try the coconut oil prewash. I don't use leave-in conditioners.. because I never really did? I have only ever use conditioner as a leave in and/or oil, or just serums.

Get this.. I have the 2-step aphogee, and my hair drank it up. I did the treatment 3 times, every 2 weeks, and that's really the only time my hair decently held water. But only really until the next wash maybe 2. I need to buy more. I saturate, let it get extremely hard, and everything -- but I am always able to rinse it out and wear it without deep conditioning afterward.


If you're describing your hair as mush, it's time for a protein treatment. Don't fool around with the rest of this stuff; go get some Aphogee 2-step and treat your hair before it dissolves. It's not hygral fatigue, it's loss of protein from your hair shafts.

Am I describing it correctly... its slippery and weightless under the shower, and when I get out of the shower (after deep conditioning/co-washing) it is stiff as if I shampooed it. The stiffness had me thinking maybe I was wrong about trying to douse it with protein treatments. Should I keep trying the aphogee 2 step every 2 weeks?


I want to thank everyone for their advice. I will eventually buy some lemon juice or white vinegar to try out, I really need to find a way to air-dry.

I just finished shampooing my hair, deep conditioning, and blow drying a little mineral oil through my hair on warm so that it is combable for the next few days. It feels dry, but smooth from the mineral oil. I don't want to depend on blow drying anymore.

Firefox7275
January 22nd, 2014, 05:31 PM
C
Hello :-D I'm new, but I've been a frequent lurker. I'm pretty sure my hair has hygral fatigue but I'll let you be the judge. I had issues making my new member post but long story short my hair was high-lifted, heat damaged to mush, dyed again, and heat styled until New Years (over 5 months). I want to stop using heat but my hair has been refusing to respond to any conditioning or air drying which it used to love. In the past when I made it mushy trying to go CG I improved my porosity with acv rinses, but now that my hair is colored blonde I don't know if I can use that. I tried olive oil and coconut oil on separate occasions but my hair just felt dry dipped in oil. It feels over-moisturized when wet but refusing to hold moisture when damp/dry.

Should I try some other type of acidic rinse? Any other suggestions?

Hygral fatigue is water damage, that sounds like bleach damage. The issues here are two fold: damage to the protective cuticle which you can feel and see when dry, and damage to the internal protein cortex which means the hair is very weak and is particularly noticeable when wet (further weakens hair by breaking even more protein bonds).

Most commercial intensive conditioners are little more than cosmetic, they won't repair (even temporarily since hair is dead) damage - you need big guns or a pair of scissors. They may even further damage the hair by keeping it wet and weak too long. Do a hydrolysed protein treatment for mushy bleach fried hair - this will patch repair the cuticle and strengthen the cortex.

Vinegar does not improve porosity, it temporarily encourages the cuticle to lay flat. Bleach doesn't just eat through the cuticle it also literally blows holes in the cortex. Coconut oil (and possibly other penetrating oils) can but you need patience and perseverance. The best way to use it is to make it feel dipped in oil, then leave at least overnight before cleansing the excess with conditioner. Don't expect this to improve the aesthetic feel of hair that is not the point.

Anje
January 22nd, 2014, 06:16 PM
Am I describing it correctly... its slippery and weightless under the shower, and when I get out of the shower (after deep conditioning/co-washing) it is stiff as if I shampooed it. The stiffness had me thinking maybe I was wrong about trying to douse it with protein treatments. Should I keep trying the aphogee 2 step every 2 weeks?

Stiffness after a protein treatment is pretty normal, and it's better than mushy... Optimally, you'll follow a protein treatment like aphogee with something fairly moisturizing, maybe an SMT if it's not too much.

That said, and like Firefox7275 says, there's a point at which your hair is pretty much being patched and repatched to try to hold it together after damage. Treatments or scissors are probably the best you can do till new healthy hair grows in. Some few feel that henna is a good additional stopgap measure; however, I don't recommend it unless the idea is permanently red hair appeals to you.

diddiedaisy
January 23rd, 2014, 07:37 AM
Sorry for being dumb but what does mushy hair mean?

Anje
January 23rd, 2014, 08:06 AM
Sorry for being dumb but what does mushy hair mean?
I've heard it described as the hair feeling like wet paper when it's wet. Haven't experienced it myself, thankfully, but it tends to be a sign of hair that's had way too much chemical processing.

Firefox7275
January 23rd, 2014, 09:14 AM
Sorry for being dumb but what does mushy hair mean?

Think way overcooked spaghetti. Some also say there hair is overly stretchy or slimy.

MissHoney
January 23rd, 2014, 10:21 AM
Thanks for the advice, Firefox and Anje. I am just really discouraged when I keep doing deep moisture treatments and cowashes then my hair feels stiff like I only shampooed. It feels like a waste of time, as if heat is the only thing that makes it feel smooth and not-dry. Which doesn't make sense. I've been maintaining all my length (even gaining length) with heat and trims, my ends are not split right now or anything.

MissHoney
January 23rd, 2014, 10:36 AM
Ah yes, I meant to mention I would love to try henna but I look absolutely horrible in most shades of red/orange. I'm still reading/learning about the similar things, like cassia...

Firefox7275
January 23rd, 2014, 10:41 AM
Thanks for the advice, Firefox and Anje. I am just really discouraged when I keep doing deep moisture treatments and cowashes then my hair feels stiff like I only shampooed. It feels like a waste of time, as if heat is the only thing that makes it feel smooth and not-dry. Which doesn't make sense. I've been maintaining all my length (even gaining length) with heat and trims, my ends are not split right now or anything.

It does make sense: a badly damaged cuticle is permanently raised, flat irons and heat protectants temporarily smooth it but at the expense of worsening the damage long term. I never had split ends when my hair was at its worst (dye and mechanical damage) but that is only one sign of one type of damage, i did have breakage at particularly vulnerable spots, fluffy/ poofy unmanageable hair, velcro ends if too long between trims. If you are trimming regularly you are cutting frayed ends before they form a visible split.

Conditioning patch repairs relatively minor damage only, you seem to be expecting a long term fix for severe damage. Moisturising (adding or increasing water) softens but ultimately worsens the problem by further fatiguing the cuticle. Don't confuse healthy hair with aesthetically pleasing hair. I wish I could tell you different but permanent repair is impossible, certainly not going to improve whilst you persist in adding to the damage.

Ultimately I suspect you are going to have to choose between short healthy hair and fighting longer badly damaged hair. I found the grow out easier at about a year when I could see the incredible difference in my old and new growth.

There are microscope hair analysis services (Komaza Care, Goosefootprints on Etsy) that can tell you how mch of your hair is basically fried and needs cutting rather than frustrating yourself trying to salvage dead hair.

meteor
January 23rd, 2014, 03:32 PM
Get this.. I have the 2-step aphogee, and my hair drank it up. I did the treatment 3 times, every 2 weeks, and that's really the only time my hair decently held water. But only really until the next wash maybe 2.
Yes, it's pretty obvious that your hair needs hydrolyzed protein, but it does wash out very quickly, with water alone. I'd recommend doing Aphogee treatments according to your needs. If your hair gets dry, tangly, velcro-like and no longer mushy and stretchy, temporarily switch to a moisture-based protein-free conditioner. Also, damaged hair should be washed with light, gentle shampoos. And bleach-damaged hair tends to love silicones, so you can experiment with those, but cones can dry out hair if not removed with SLS/SLES and betaines regularly.
In the long run, you just need to grow out the damage. Don't use heat on hair, if you can help it. And if you really want to bleach hair again, apply a protective thick layer of coconut oil to your hair a few hours before bleach, and don't overlap (or "refresh") the dye on your ends.

As for drying without a blow-dryer, you can use soft cotton t-shirts to pat excess water gently and then drip-dry over a fan in a well-heated room.