Why is my hair being so odd?

[Arwenlily]

Usually my hair is curly, 3b, and the past couple of days it is a lot straighter than usual and absolutely no curl. My ends seem very dry and the strands feels a little odd. My hair isn't breaking but I'm just not sure what is going on. I haven't dyed my hair or done any chemical treatments so I don't know what could be causing this.

The only thing I can suspect is that I have been trying a lot of different products lately to see what works. I know that it is best to try one thing for a while, but I was too impatient. I've tried a bunch of different conditioners to co-wash, I've tried different oils - coconut, olive, and almond, I've tried deep conditioning treatments.

Advice that I've gotten before was to clarify my hair twice and then to chelate. Well, I've clarified twice with an SLS shampoo and chelated with lemon rinse but my hair seems to just keep getting worse. What do I do?

[lapushka]

The only thing I can suspect is that I have been trying a lot of different products lately to see what works. I know that it is best to try one thing for a while, but I was too impatient. I've tried a bunch of different conditioners to co-wash, I've tried different oils - coconut, olive, and almond, I've tried deep conditioning treatments.

Advice that I've gotten before was to clarify my hair twice and then to chelate. Well, I've clarified twice with an SLS shampoo and chelated with lemon rinse but my hair seems to just keep getting worse. What do I do?

Clarifying once or twice, with all the products you've been using interchangeably might not even be enough! Try clarifying and using a light conditioner after, until your hair settles down. That would be my advice.

[Anje]

If clarifying didn't do it, I think I'd go back to the old products that worked, see if that makes a difference. It might just be that something that you did is no longer agreeing with your hair, and if you changed several things it'll be hard to determine which it is.

There's also the possibility, depending on your climate, that it's just really dry. We've been living here with forced-air heat for a few months now, and I can't touch my cat or put on a shirt without getting zapped; my hair is floaty and straighter than usual too.

[Arwenlily]

Clarifying once or twice, with all the products you've been using interchangeably might not even be enough! Try clarifying and using a light conditioner after, until your hair settles down. That would be my advice.

Thank you. So far I've clarified twice, one day after the other. The only products I've been using the past couple of days is an SLS shampoo followed by a light conditioner and a little but of almond oil which doesn't seem to affect my hair too much. How often should I wait in between clarifying? Can I do it everyday until my hair looks better, or should I wait a couple of days in between?

[Arwenlily]

If clarifying didn't do it, I think I'd go back to the old products that worked, see if that makes a difference. It might just be that something that you did is no longer agreeing with your hair, and if you changed several things it'll be hard to determine which it is.

There's also the possibility, depending on your climate, that it's just really dry. We've been living here with forced-air heat for a few months now, and I can't touch my cat or put on a shirt without getting zapped; my hair is floaty and straighter than usual too.

I tried going back to the old products that worked (SLS-free shampoo and coney conditioner) but they didn't work either and the smell of the fragrance gives me a headache now.

[lapushka]

I'd not go nuts washing your hair. I'd go slow, and wash your usual amount.

[Arwenlily]

Okay, I'll try that ... this has never happened before. I kind wish I didn't try anything new with my hair and just left it alone, it was doing fine. Now it is all weird.

[molljo]

Have you checked the amount of protein in the various conditioners you've been using?

[Anje]

Have you checked the amount of protein in the various conditioners you've been using?
That's a good thought. If it's being intensely tangly and the strands feel rough or sticky, too much protein is a possibility. On the other hand, if it's being weirdly limp and maybe feels a little stretchy or mushy (I'm going on descriptions here, haven't experienced this side of the coin for myself), you might be in need of more protein.

More descriptions of exactly how it's being weird wouldn't hurt.

Oh, another thought: it's not common, but I've known curlies and wavies to report panthenol buildup that significantly loosened their texture. I don't have the time to look for it at the moment, but Speedbump and Flaxen are two members who specifically reported it, several years back.

[ErinLeigh]

I hate when my hair does not cooperate. Bad hair days put me in a horrible mood.
If you clarified several times already that should be enough. I think just giving it time with your old routine will get you back.
Weather has been wild this year so it could just be weather messing with your hair. Yes you changed a lot of things but if you stopped them and reset and hair is still acting up I would just guess weather. I don't think a few deep conditioners and oils will have ruined your hair forever. I am sure it will come back to how you prefer it.
Worst case a small trim helps.

Do you do the curly girl method for your hair?

[Arwenlily]

Molljo and Anje, I actually stopped using a conditioner I was using that had protein in it because I suspected I might be protein sensitive. But the one I've been using the past couple of washes is protein free.

Anje, to better describe my hair I would just say that though my hair is naurally curly, the past 3 or 4 days it has had barely any curl at all which frightened me. I usually don't have trouble with the curl ever, it is usually curly throughout the seasons. Also, my hair feels very soft from the crown until my ends which feel dry and tangly. Also my hair seems a bit static and airy. Like the strands themselves just feel very lightweight like fly away hairs.

[Arwenlily]

ErinLeigh, I really hope it does go back to the way it is naturally. This has really been bugging me. I follow the curly method mostly but I don't apply gel.

[Anje]

Just curious if this sounds like it.

http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=633322&postcount=12

[Arwenlily]

It sounds exactly like what is going on .... but I checked the ingredients of everything I've used and nothing has panthenol it. Is is under a different name other than panthenol?

[Anje]

It's also pantothenic acid or vitamin B5.

ETA: Pantothenate (as in sodium pantothenate, etc.) would also be a legitimate name, but I don't think I've ever actually seen it.

[Arwenlily]

Nope, nothing I have used has panthenol in it. But I think my hair is ruined. I did a co-wash today and my hair is horrible. It is lank, wavy, sticky, and fly away. I hope I don't have to cut it all off.

[Arwenlily]

Nope, nothing I have used has panthenol in it. Aren't the symptoms of protein sensitive hair similar? Do you think it could be that?

[Anje]

Nah, there's probably something on it... Let it rest a few days, wear it up so texture doesn't matter. Consider trying a new and different clarifying shampoo.

ETA: When you clarify, you're shampooing the whole length including the ends, right?

ETA2: In my personal experience, cutting hair when it's clearly got something weird happening with it (rather than actual damage from chemical treatments, splits, heat, abuse, etc.) gives you shorter weird hair. IMO, it's best to pursue why it's being strange rather than cutting it without solving the cause.

[lapushka]

ETA2: In my personal experience, cutting hair when it's clearly got something weird happening with it (rather than actual damage from chemical treatments, splits, heat, abuse, etc.) gives you shorter weird hair. IMO, it's best to pursue why it's being strange rather than cutting it without solving the cause.

This. ^^ Try and be patient. Wash on your usual wash days, and when the hair is weird in between, just wear it up! Weird hair doesn't matter when you wear it up. It just doesn't. Give it time, and again be patient. I'm also seconding the suggestion of trying a different clarifying shampoo. What did you use?

[woodswanderer]

Egad! Don't just cut it. :scissors: I'm sure it is frustrating, but I doubt any shampoo, conditioner, serum, etc could ruin your hair so quickly despite however the hair appears right now.

[Arwenlily]

Nah, there's probably something on it... Let it rest a few days, wear it up so texture doesn't matter. Consider trying a new and different clarifying shampoo.

ETA: When you clarify, you're shampooing the whole length including the ends, right?

ETA2: In my personal experience, cutting hair when it's clearly got something weird happening with it (rather than actual damage from chemical treatments, splits, heat, abuse, etc.) gives you shorter weird hair. IMO, it's best to pursue why it's being strange rather than cutting it without solving the cause.

Yeah, I made sure to shampoo all of my hair including the ends. Maybe I need to get a shampoo specific for clarifying?

[Arwenlily]

This. ^^ Try and be patient. Wash on your usual wash days, and when the hair is weird in between, just wear it up! Weird hair doesn't matter when you wear it up. It just doesn't. Give it time, and again be patient. I'm also seconding the suggestion of trying a different clarifying shampoo. What did you use?

I used Herbal Essence a Silk n' Shine Shampoo with jojoba extract, rose hips, and vitamin e. Maybe I'll try Suave Clarifying Shampoo? One that is specific for clarifying?

[Arwenlily]

Double post

[Arwenlily]

Egad! Don't just cut it. :scissors: I'm sure it is frustrating, but I doubt any shampoo, conditioner, serum, etc could ruin your hair so quickly despite however the hair appears right now.

I hope you are right. My hair feels like it is just going to fall out.

[lapushka]

I used Herbal Essence a Silk n' Shine Shampoo with jojoba extract, rose hips, and vitamin e. Maybe I'll try Suave Clarifying Shampoo? One that is specific for clarifying?

That is a sulfate no-silicone shampoo. Should be all right! :thumbsup:


I hope you are right. My hair feels like it is just going to fall out.

I'm sure it's not that bad! Just give it time. Do you feel any improvement yet?

[Arwenlily]

That is a sulfate no-silicone shampoo. Should be all right! :thumbsup:



I'm sure it's not that bad! Just give it time. Do you feel any improvement yet?

Nope ... no improvement yet. If possible, it just feels worse. It's weird to say but the texture just doesn't feel like my hair. It's also very soft and smooth but somehow very dry. There is no curl whatsoever when I usually have 3b curls.

Should I try the Suave Clarifying in a couple of days or should I stop trying to clarify it?

[ErinLeigh]

Just curious if this sounds like it.

http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=633322&postcount=12

great link Ange!!! Thanks for posting it.

[ErinLeigh]

Nope, nothing I have used has panthenol in it. But I think my hair is ruined. I did a co-wash today and my hair is horrible. It is lank, wavy, sticky, and fly away. I hope I don't have to cut it all off.

AWWW, Don't be sad, It is going to come back. No way would I think a few product experimenting change hair structure. Nothing was seared onto hair or chemically added.
Henna has been known to straighten hair, buildup does, keratin overload etc, but simple deep conditioners and oils no.

Have you tried chelating? Different from clarifying. Mineral removal? Couldn't hurt at this point except a little dryness but an SMT bounces mine back from those.

I have naturally wavy and curly hair. I have half and half. I have lost curls from time to time but it is usually weather or haircut related, or the obvious chemicals.
A trim might put some spring back in them, like 1/4 inch, nothing drastic. I only say that because it has brought mine back before..

You keep thinking protein but your products have none right? Keratin enhanced products straighten mine..none of that in your right? Sometimes even waxy products..What do you use for leave in? What about overconditioning? At this point anything is possible until full everything you did is posted.

I know you are bummed so just want to reply so you don't feel alone, but I cant think of what could remove curls except product, hormones or weather. Maybe write out everything you used to do, everything you changed, and everything you went back to? I am sure folks would be happy to search the products ingredients and full routine to help with feedback.

here is general reading start..
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/145763-causes-loss-curl.html

[Anje]

I'd wait a few days and maybe an oiling or two before clarifying. As long as your hair isn't a matted, un-detanglable mess, you've got time. No reason to overstress your hair by clarifying a zillion times.

[ErinLeigh]

would you want to post our routine before, what exactly changed, and what you went back to? With full product list?

Here are some general links about curl loss http://www.curls.biz/curly-blog/prevent-your-curly-hair-loss-62
www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/is-water-damaging-my-hair
www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/145763-causes-loss-curl.html

[cat11]

I would take it really easy so you dont make it worse. Wait 3 days between washes (you have curly hair so it shouldnt be an issue,) use the last known oil to not cause problems of your hairs condition, and then gently cleanse it and condition it like usual until it evens out again and gets better. Trying alot of stuff for a quick result is a bad idea and might further stress your hair, especially if it's in a fragile state to begin with. You might have over conditioned it. Perhaps do a simple protein treatment with eggs and mayonaisse. Read this article about over conditioning, it couldnt definately happened if you were trying a bunch of products:

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curly-kinky-hair-type-3c/why-i-stopped-deep-conditioning-overnight

[Arwenlily]

would you want to post our routine before, what exactly changed, and what you went back to? With full product list?

Here are some general links about curl loss http://www.curls.biz/curly-blog/prevent-your-curly-hair-loss-62
www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/is-water-damaging-my-hair
www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/145763-causes-loss-curl.html

Yeah, I'll definitely do that. Thank you so much and everyone else for helping me out. The Suave Naturals Tropical Coconut conditioner I was using had silk amino acids, so that is protein and I was using it a lot.

Before I post my routine, here are some pictures for reference.

Here is a picture of my hair about a week ago:
http://www.beautycarechoices.com/moroccanoil/moisture-repair-shampoo-24oz?lid=4195817&PLA=Moroccanoil&gclid=CPbS0KXUkLwCFTJp7AodoGIAZg

Here is a picture a couple days after that:
http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p743/Arwenlily/straightness_zps941190a9.jpg (http://s1349.photobucket.com/user/Arwenlily/media/straightness_zps941190a9.jpg.html)

And today (after a couple of hours of braids):
http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p743/Arwenlily/whatthehell2_zps98000f16.jpg (http://s1349.photobucket.com/user/Arwenlily/media/whatthehell2_zps98000f16.jpg.html)

[Arwenlily]

A week or two ago:
http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p743/Arwenlily/SuaveandBiolageCo-washing_zps2917c963.jpg (http://s1349.photobucket.com/user/Arwenlily/media/SuaveandBiolageCo-washing_zps2917c963.jpg.html)

[Arwenlily]

For about 6-7 months I used Moroccanoil Hydration Shampoo and Conditioner and then ended with a little bit of olive oil when dry.

Moroccanoil Hydration shampoo:
Water (Aqua), Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate, Cocamidopropyl Hydroxysultaine, PEG-150 Pentaerythrityl Tetrastearate amd Aqua and PWG-6 Caprylic/Capric Glycerides, Cocamide DEA, Fragrance Parfum, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Acetamide MEA, Argania Spinosa Kernel Oil (Argan Oil), Polysorbate 20, PEG-20 Glyceryl Laurate, Tocopherol, Linoleic Acid, Retinyl Palmitate, Diethylhexyl Syringlydenamlonate, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Butylene Glycol, Chondrus Crispus Carrageenan Extract, Ascophyllum Nodosum Extract, Palmaria Palmata Extract, Laminaria Saccharina Extract, Undaria Pinnatifida Extract, Phenoxyethanol, Acrylates/Palmeth-25, Acrylate Copolymer, Caprylyl Glycol, Sodium Chloride, Styrene/Acrylates Copolymer, Chlorphenesin, Citric Acid.

Moroccanoil Hydrating conditioner:
Water (Aqua), Dimethicone, Cetearyl Alcohol, Fragrance (Prafum), Behentrimonium Chloride, Acetamide MEA, Canola Oil, Argania Spinosa Kernel Oil (Argan Oil), Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein PG-Propyl Silanetriol, Butylene Glycol, Chondrius Crispus Carraeenan Extract, Ascophyllum Nodosum Extract, Palmaria, Palmata Extract, Laminaria Saccharina Extract, Undaria Pinnatifida Extract, Phenoxyethanol, Isopropyl Alcohol, Caprylyl Glycol, Citric Acid, Chlorphenesin, Buytlphenyl, Methylpropional, Hydroxyisohexl 3-Cyclohexene Carboxaldehyde, Linalool, Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone.

Then I decided to remove all silicone from my hair so I used the shampoo to clarify. I conditioned that day with a cone-free conditioner but I don't remember which one. The next wash I did a co-wash with Suave Naturals Tropical Coconut Conditioner for my scalp and Biolage Deep Smoothing Conditioner for the length. I rinsed a little bit of it out but left most of it in.

Suave Tropical Coconut:
Water (Aqua), Cetearyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Fragrance (Parfum), Distearyldimonium Chloride, Disodium EDTA, Glycerin, 2 Bromo 2 Nitropropane 3, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Propylene Glycol, Silk Amino Acid, Honey/Mel, Nettle (Urtica Dioica) Extract, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Extract, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Extract

Biolage Deep Smoothing Conditioner:
Water, Cetearyl Alcohol, Elaeis Guineensis Oil/Palm Oil, Behentrimonium Chloride, Glycerin,Phenoxyethanol, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Fragrance, Camellia Kissi/Camellia Kissi Seed Oil, Citric Acid, Chlorhexidine Dihydrochloride, Limoene

The next time I tried to use only Suave Naturals Tropical Coconut to co-wash and left a little in as a leave-in conditioner, and then I used coconut oil when my hair was damp.

The next wash, I went back to using the Suave Naturals to was my scalp and Biolage Deep Smoothing Conditioner for the lengths. I put in a little coconut oil after it was dry.

In between those washes I also tried some deep condition treatments such as honey and olive oil, coconut oil pre-washes, olive oil pre-wash, Suave Naturals Green Apple for an hour and then rinsed it out. I also tried ACV rinses and a lemon rinse.

About a week ago, my hair started to feel lank, straight, sticky, tangly, and knotty at the ends. However it is very smooth and soft but dry.

The next wash, I clarified using Herbal Essence Silk n`Shine shampoo and Biolage Deep Smoothing Conditioner. I finished that off with some almond oil.

Herbal Essences Silk n`Shine:
Water, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Citric Acid, Rosa Canina (Rose Hip) Fruit Extract, Tocopheryl Acetate, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Extract, Sodium Citrate, Sodium Xylenesulfonate, Fragrance, Cocamide Mea, Sodium Chloride, Sodium Benzoate, Tetrasodium EDTA, PEG-60 Almond Glycerides, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Red 33, Orange 4, Ext. Violet 2, Green 3

The next wash I used the Herbal Essences shampoo to clarify again, then I did a lemon rinse (1 teaspoon lemon juice in 2 cups of water) in an attempt to chelate, and followed with Tresemme Naturals Aloe Vera and Avocado conditioner (it is protein free, I thought I might be protein sensitive). And then I finished with Almond oil.

Tresemme Naturals:
Water, Cetearyl Alcohol, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Behentrimonium Chloride, Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil, Brassica Campestris/Aleurites Fordi Oil Copolymer, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Extract, Fragrance, Dipropylene Glycol, Potassium Chloride, Lactic Acid, Disodium EDTA, DMDM Hydantonin, PEG-150 Distearate, Caprylic/Capric Trigylceride, Lauroyl Lisine, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolionone

Then today, I co-washed with Tresemme Naturals only and followed with Almond Oil.

[ErinLeigh]

That is a change! Well your original conditioner had protein in and hair was doing fine so I doubt using a different Suave protein would make that kind of change so quickly. Even if becoming protein sensitive you would think it would have slowly built from the first product and would have shown some signs prior. You had oils in the original routine also so its not like it was a foreign concept to you hair either.
Maybe the original product was giving just the right amount of conditioning and protein and your hair responded to it. Then when you started conditioning more the balance changed? Your conditioner had cones but maybe they were doing their job sealing that right amount in for you? This is all just tossing things out as I have not idea anything for sure obviously.

It is wild to see such a change within that time frame.
Has the weather been different or stable? Any major changes in dew points etc? On the naturally curly sites they mention them a lot and the effect on hair response to them.

I am going to google things and ask a hairdresser some questions about this tomorrow. I would want answers too if I was you and would be frustrated not knowing what the heck to do next.

Where the heck is firefox on this one! She has great advice on hair issue IMO. I would love her to look at his and see what she thinks :/
Hopefully Ange comes back to thread too. Her posts always come up when I google and she has interesting things to say also.

[ErinLeigh]

I remember reading a link posted once and as I was reading the comment section one comment stuck with me. Its the one that made me wonder if your protein / moisture balance changed/

take it for what its worth as it was an anon comment..but it did make me think..it read..
The key to formulating with protein is to find the appropriate particle size for your targeted audience. Coarser textures of hair are naturally porous and require a larger molecular weight (another way of saying particle size) protein. That's generally what you would find in the health store muscle powders (along with a ton of other binders). As the hair gets finer, curlier and or straighter, you need either smaller weight proteins or with very fine hair, forget the full protein because nothing willwork short of Amino Acids which are use to build proteins.

One caveat. If using larger molecular weight proteins beware of using them without some kind of sealing agent to buffer moisture loss. Once protein dries out, it can dry your hair out. Protein is much like a sponge. It readily absorbs ,moisture, but it can also give it up very fast. The proper path to long lasting moisture is to fill with protein, then seal with a cream or gel.

[ErinLeigh]

I forgot to tell you..your hair is so pretty curly or straight!

[Anje]

Oooh, thanks for the products and ingredients lists! That'll help.

Are the ingredients in the right order for that Moroccanoil conditioner? Wow that's a lot of silicone, especially paired with a shampoo that I'm not convinced would remove it..... My other first impression is that you've used a LOT of different products in the last few weeks, which might be complicating this.

I think I'm going to stick by the thought to have you get a different clarifying shampoo (in a few days, let your hair rest first), even though the HE one really does have ingredients that should take most stuff out. Ingredients are part of the equation, but the amounts of them might not be sufficient. If you want a product recommendation, I've heard a lot of good stuff about Neutrogena Anti-Residue shampoo, and it has the amazingly short ingredient list I expect in a true clarifying product. Follow that up with a good conditioning -- I like the knockoffs of Biolage Conditioning Balm that I've used (Sally Beauty has a good one (http://www.sallybeauty.com/conditioning-balm/SBS-264074,default,pd.html)), and I'm hoping that something like that will give your hair back the moisture it needs to curl.

Personally, I've had enough issues with Suave Tropical Coconut conditioner that I give it the hairy eyeball, even though a lot of people here feel it's their holy grail product. Same sort of problems: sticky weird-acting ends, though my hair's already straight enough that if the texture changed I didn't notice. I'm inclined to advise you to avoid it for a couple weeks either way, just to see if it makes a difference.

[Vrindi]

If clarifying didn't do it, I think I'd go back to the old products that worked, see if that makes a difference. It might just be that something that you did is no longer agreeing with your hair, and if you changed several things it'll be hard to determine which it is.

There's also the possibility, depending on your climate, that it's just really dry. We've been living here with forced-air heat for a few months now, and I can't touch my cat or put on a shirt without getting zapped; my hair is floaty and straighter than usual too.


My hair has always been wavy/curly, and then I moved to the desert. Since coming to a dry climate, my hair has been stick straight. I've learned to love it, and when I get near an ocean, my waves come back.

[Vrindi]

Personally, I've had enough issues with Suave Tropical Coconut conditioner that I give it the hairy eyeball, even though a lot of people here feel it's their holy grail product. Same sort of problems: sticky weird-acting ends, though my hair's already straight enough that if the texture changed I didn't notice. I'm inclined to advise you to avoid it for a couple weeks either way, just to see if it makes a difference.

Ugh. I've used this too and HATED it, and my hair loves, loves coconut oil. That conditioner was awful.

[Arwenlily]

I forgot to tell you..your hair is so pretty curly or straight!

Aww thanks so much. That is interesting what you wrote about the protein ... I'm not sure if that is it though it might be.

[Arwenlily]

Oooh, thanks for the products and ingredients lists! That'll help.

Are the ingredients in the right order for that Moroccanoil conditioner? Wow that's a lot of silicone, especially paired with a shampoo that I'm not convinced would remove it..... My other first impression is that you've used a LOT of different products in the last few weeks, which might be complicating this.

I think I'm going to stick by the thought to have you get a different clarifying shampoo (in a few days, let your hair rest first), even though the HE one really does have ingredients that should take most stuff out. Ingredients are part of the equation, but the amounts of them might not be sufficient. If you want a product recommendation, I've heard a lot of good stuff about Neutrogena Anti-Residue shampoo, and it has the amazingly short ingredient list I expect in a true clarifying product. Follow that up with a good conditioning -- I like the knockoffs of Biolage Conditioning Balm that I've used (Sally Beauty has a good one (http://www.sallybeauty.com/conditioning-balm/SBS-264074,default,pd.html)), and I'm hoping that something like that will give your hair back the moisture it needs to curl.

Personally, I've had enough issues with Suave Tropical Coconut conditioner that I give it the hairy eyeball, even though a lot of people here feel it's their holy grail product. Same sort of problems: sticky weird-acting ends, though my hair's already straight enough that if the texture changed I didn't notice. I'm inclined to advise you to avoid it for a couple weeks either way, just to see if it makes a difference.

Thanks a lot for your help. Yes, that is the order of the products for the Moroccanoil :/. I started using it before I knew about the effects of silicone.


Thank you for the recommendation for the Neutrogena, I'll purchase that and give it a try ... and also the conditioning balm. I'm so anxious about all of this. My hair has never looked like this before.

[Anje]

Remember that silicones aren't necessarily bad. My hair doesn't like them (I find them drying after a day or two, haven't been able to narrow it down to which ones specifically cause this because I'm not that inclined to keep doing it), but a lot of people find that they really are good with their hair. If your hair was a lot better with them, there is absolutely no harm in going back to it.

Hopefully you can get this weirdness sorted first, though!

[Firefox7275]

Arwenlily: referring to the post with ingredients. Firstly that is not really a clarifying shampoo. Secondly holy silicone Batman!

Thirdly when you switched you did NOT intensive condition you deep treated and absolutely loaded your hair with penetrating oils (coconut, olive, sweet almond) which dont suit all hair types, or can be overdone. A true conditioner is rich in fatty alcohols and/ or cationic surfactants (they are high up the list certainly above fragrance and likely above silicones).

Fourthly hair can behave differently with hydrolysed proteins (humectants) in different dews (summer/ winter) and from first use up to the point they build up. My bad experience with protein was piling coconut oil over the top, my hair FREAKED when i clarifed and did a strong vinegar rinse - it was actually matting. And this is colour treated porous hair that does well with protein and penetrating oils. You may have done this with natural oils and/ or the silicones, or perhaps the slip of the silicone load was disguising the roughness of protein overload.

Clarify and chelate, perhaps two or three times. That means a harsh non conditioning shampoo rich in sulphates, olefin sulfonates or cocoamidopropyl betaine. Then use a true deep conditioner rich in fatty alcohols or cationic surfactants, don't get clever with penetrating ingredients. Basically start with a clean slate don't pile products or ingredients that may build up in top of one another.

[ErinLeigh]

ANge..I love the Sallys knockoff Biolage conditioner. It was one of those happy finds. No protein and no silicones for a great price. And IMO the absolute perfect SMT mix. Just the right thickness and conditioning for those. :) Is that what you use for yours?

[Arwenlily]

Arwenlily: referring to the post with ingredients. Firstly that is not really a clarifying shampoo. Secondly holy silicone Batman!

Thirdly when you switched you did NOT intensive condition you deep treated and absolutely loaded your hair with penetrating oils (coconut, olive, sweet almond) which dont suit all hair types, or can be overdone. A true conditioner is rich in fatty alcohols and/ or cationic surfactants (they are high up the list certainly above fragrance and likely above silicones).

Fourthly hair can behave differently with hydrolysed proteins (humectants) in different dews (summer/ winter) and from first use up to the point they build up. My bad experience with protein was piling coconut oil over the top, my hair FREAKED when i clarifed and did a strong vinegar rinse - it was actually matting. And this is colour treated porous hair that does well with protein and penetrating oils. You may have done this with natural oils and/ or the silicones, or perhaps the slip of the silicone load was disguising the roughness of protein overload.

Clarify and chelate, perhaps two or three times. That means a harsh non conditioning shampoo rich in sulphates, olefin sulfonates or cocoamidopropyl betaine. Then use a true deep conditioner rich in fatty alcohols or cationic surfactants, don't get clever with penetrating ingredients. Basically start with a clean slate don't pile products or ingredients that may build up in top of one another.

Thank for finding this thread, you always have the best advice. I'll try clarifying with Suave Clarifying or Neutrogena Anti-Residue and then follow with GVP Conditioning Balm. I tried chelating with a lemon rinse, does this work?

[Arwenlily]

Also do I have to use GVP Conditioning Balm or can I use one of the conditioners I listed above and just leave out on for longer?

[Firefox7275]

Also do I have to use GVP Conditioning Balm or can I use one of the conditioners I listed above and just leave out on for longer?

GVP conditioning balm is not an intensive conditioner rich in the major emollients, its a regular moisturiser/ conditioner with a potent humectant right at the top of the ingredients IIRC. There is a list of ingredients in their families on Naturally Curly by 'curl chemist' Tonya McKay. Look at the first five ingredients especially - water is always first, then ideally the next two to four as fatty alcohols and/ or cationic surfactants.

This is not to 'deep treat' your hair nor to 'moisturise' it, but a hardcore clarify will strip your hair CLEAN and possibly straw like. You are initially aiming to put the conditioner deposits back, these ingredients are substantive ('sticky', attracted to damaged spots, give slip and softness). Humectants, natural oils, silicones, proteins and whatnot will just get in the way.

Yes you can use a decent but basic regular conditioner, but then use a little heat (shower cap and hot towel if you don't have a heat cap). Of what you have the Tresemme looks most promising as a basic emollient rich conditioner. See Natural Haven blog for effect of time and temperature on ingredients depositing.

[Arwenlily]

So I clarified in the shower with Neutrogena Anti-Residue shampoo twice and then left the Tresemme Naturals conditioner on for about 15 minutes and then rinsed. My hair is still wet but it doesn't feel too great. Is it possible I may need to che late as well or clarify again?

[lapushka]

So I clarified in the shower with Neutrogena Anti-Residue shampoo twice and then left the Tresemme Naturals conditioner on for about 15 minutes and then rinsed. My hair is still wet but it doesn't feel too great. Is it possible I may need to che late as well or clarify again?

You can make your hair overly dry by clarifying too much (too many tries in not enough days).

[Arwenlily]

You can make your hair overly dry by clarifying too much (too many tries in not enough days).

Should I try again next week and just co-wash in between? Or should my next wash be to clarify again?

[lapushka]

Should I try again next week and just co-wash in between? Or should my next wash be to clarify again?

Try and stretch your washes a little? If you can?

[Firefox7275]

So I clarified in the shower with Neutrogena Anti-Residue shampoo twice and then left the Tresemme Naturals conditioner on for about 15 minutes and then rinsed. My hair is still wet but it doesn't feel too great. Is it possible I may need to che late as well or clarify again?

The point is to do a 'reset' with a really basic clarify chelate and condition, not to make your hair feel the best it can be. Chelating products usually clarify, clarifying products don't usually chelate. Fifteen minutes with a basic conditioner isn't really the intensive version I suggested - again read the Natural Haven series, use some heat and plenty of time to get maximum adsorption (sticking not penetration).

Be patient!

[meteor]

Fifteen minutes with a basic conditioner isn't really the intensive version I suggested - again read the Natural Haven series, use some heat and plenty of time to get maximum adsorption (sticking not penetration).
I'll add that you need about 20-30 minutes for effective adsorption and 35 degrees, so trapping your own body heat under a plastic cap should be enough.
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/10/deep-conditioning-effect-of-time-and.html

I'd caution you against clarifying and chelating too often. At this point, after multiple clarifying washes, it might be counter-productive. In colder, drier winter months, I think it's better to shampoo less and to condition/oil more.

[Arwenlily]

GVP conditioning balm is not an intensive conditioner rich in the major emollients, its a regular moisturiser/ conditioner with a potent humectant right at the top of the ingredients IIRC. There is a list of ingredients in their families on Naturally Curly by 'curl chemist' Tonya McKay. Look at the first five ingredients especially - water is always first, then ideally the next two to four as fatty alcohols and/ or cationic surfactants.

This is not to 'deep treat' your hair nor to 'moisturise' it, but a hardcore clarify will strip your hair CLEAN and possibly straw like. You are initially aiming to put the conditioner deposits back, these ingredients are substantive ('sticky', attracted to damaged spots, give slip and softness). Humectants, natural oils, silicones, proteins and whatnot will just get in the way.

Yes you can use a decent but basic regular conditioner, but then use a little heat (shower cap and hot towel if you don't have a heat cap). Of what you have the Tresemme looks most promising as a basic emollient rich conditioner. See Natural Haven blog for effect of time and temperature on ingredients depositing.

I read one article from Natural Haven where she said to actually warm up the conditoner. Should I do this and then put under a cap?

And for the method you suggested, do I put the conditioner on first, then a hot towel, and then a cap and leave on for 20-30 minutes after clarifying?

[Arwenlily]

I'll add that you need about 20-30 minutes for effective adsorption and 35 degrees, so trapping your own body heat under a plastic cap should be enough.
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/10/deep-conditioning-effect-of-time-and.html

I'd caution you against clarifying and chelating too often. At this point, after multiple clarifying washes, it might be counter-productive. In colder, drier winter months, I think it's better to shampoo less and to condition/oil more.

So in your opinion, you don't think I should clarify again?

[lapushka]

So in your opinion, you don't think I should clarify again?

I'm sorry, but *everybody* in this thread is sort of steering you towards being *patient* and you simply don't wish to listen. How many days can you go without a wash? Try and stretch that amount of time, and don't go crazy with clarifying! It will dry your hair out if you do it too much! Once or twice in a row is not going to kill you, but how many times have you clarified so far? Every day, every other day?

[Arwenlily]

I'm sorry, but *everybody* in this thread is sort of steering you towards being *patient* and you simply don't wish to listen. How many days can you go without a wash? Try and stretch that amount of time, and don't go crazy with clarifying! It will dry your hair out if you do it too much! Once or twice in a row is not going to kill you, but how many times have you clarified so far? Every day, every other day?

Actually, I am listening to everyone and being patient. I have only clarified once with an actual clarifying shampoo and that was yesterday. I plan on waiting a good amount of time in between washes ... I just wanted to know what my next plan should be when I do wash again. But honestly, never mind, there was no need to be rude. There must have been some misinterpretation of my replies.

[Arwenlily]

Double post