WO, CO, clay/herb - washing and mechanical damage question

[meteor]

I have experimented with different cleansing methods, but I want to settle on something least damaging.

A couple questions to LHC-ers who experimented with a few washing routines:
- Do you notice that you need more active scrubbing/pulling with CO-washing, Water-Only, clay/herbs (or other "mud" treatments) methods, as compared to shampoo or low-poo?

- Is there a possibility that these alternative methods replace chemical damage (from harsh detergents) with mechanical damage (from more scrubbing)? And if so, which one is the "lesser evil" long-term?

[ravenheather]

I think I needed more scrubbing with water only. Now I use rhassoul clay and I don't scrub at all. I think it does take a bit more time to rinse but no mechanical damage. I do think its a balancing act between chemical and mechanic damage. Clay is perfect for me with a soap based shampoo thrown in every couple weeks.

[stachelbeere]

No. I do WO and I use high water pressure to do the massaging for me and I haven't noticed any mechanical damage.

[sarahthegemini]

I've been co-washing since September and I don't 'scrub' at all. I just massage firmly, make sure I use my fingertips and make sure my nails are smooth just in case to prevent snagging. Sometimes if I'm a little too rough, I end up pulling a few strands out from the root but that happens very rarely. I massage the scalp and to clean the length, I just sort of squeeze the conditioner down it to prevent tangling (I also make sure I use a generous amout of product on the length as well as the scalp to reduce friction) For me, this is the best and gentlest wash method.

[ravenreed]

I also CO and there isn't any scrubbing involved. I do make certain to get all the parts of my scalp covered with conditioner, but as said above, it is much more of a massage with the pads of my fingers than a scrub. Then I let it sit for 15 - 20 minutes and rinse away.

[trolleypup]

No. I do WO and I use high water pressure to do the massaging for me and I haven't noticed any mechanical damage.
That was my method when I was WO...I've kept the pressure wash to keep my scalp happy...any shampoo I use is very dilute and there is very little rubbing. Rinsing is always with the grain of the hair.

I'm sure the greater portion of my damage is mechanical from detangling and combing, followed by mechanical damage from having it down or manipulation when up.

[Firefox7275]

I conditioner only wash and would not in any way describe what I do as scrubbing. I wash head upside down, use LOADS of a cheap product, finger comb with alternate hands along the scalp towards the crown, finger comb/ detangle the lengths, have recently restarted the clip up and 'soak' step, lightly massage scalp as I rinse with the shower head in hand.

There is a little more massage than shampooing but way less friction/ snagging which should mean less damage to the older and more fragile lengths. My hair is wavy-curly but not overly tangly: any tangles fall right out.

Which is less damaging? For MY porous, colour treated hair the conditioner-only washing. *Might* be different for those with less porous, finer, thicker or much longer hair or those with a dermatological disorder on the scalp.

[meteor]

Hmm, interesting. Many of you report massaging, not thoroughly scrubbing during conditioner-only washes.
But I massage conditioner into my hair when I condition it, after a shampoo or any other cleanser. But I call it conditioning, not conditioner washing. So if you use only conditioner but in massaging motions, why not qualify these as "conditioning" sessions rather than cleansing "washes"? Is that the reason why so many people on CO-routines have to clarify? Basically, they "wash" their hair only once a month or so (when they clarify), and other times they do conditioning treatments (when they thoroughly wet, condition and massage hair)?

[Firefox7275]

Hmm, interesting. Many of you report massaging, not thoroughly scrubbing during conditioner-only washes.
But I massage conditioner into my hair when I condition it, after a shampoo or any other cleanser. But I call it conditioning, not conditioner washing. So if you use only conditioner but in massaging motions, why not qualify these as "conditioning" sessions rather than cleansing "washes"? Is that the reason why so many people on CO-routines have to clarify? Basically, they "wash" their hair only once a month or so (when they clarify), and other times they do conditioning treatments (when they thoroughly wet, condition and massage hair)?

I know my scalp and hair is clean when done because it literally squeaks and all trace of sebum/ heavy oilings is gone, my hair does not feel properly conditioned and it will look 'dry' and frizzy if i didn't then condition. There is no way my occasional shampoos are the only time I am washing, I'd look like I dipped my head in a vat of oil most of the time if conditioner did not cleanse!

Co-washing is different because of product choice (lightweight, rich in emulsifiers, low to no silicones/ oils/ butters/ waxes), that you focus on the scalp not the ends, build up a light lather and rinse way longer than regular conditioning. Most co-wash products actually make poor conditioners for longer, drier or damaged hair. Can't really comment on what you do, without knowing far more about product and technique.

Build up occurs because of a combination of product choice, technique and hair type/ properties. Certain substances can only be effectively cleansed with the stronger foaming surfactants in commercial shampoo - many silicones, some polyquats, natural butters, waxes including cetyl esters, minerals from hard water, hydrolysed protein. Not everyone strictly avoids all these often they only limit silicones, some are more prone to build up than others (seems most noticeable on low porosity or fine hair).

[ExpectoPatronum]

When I CO'd, I would massage the conditioner into my scalp while bent over. I stopped CO because it caused me to shed something insane. Now I use an SLS free shampoo, but I still wash my hair bent over. It makes it easier to really clean my scalp since I have thick hair.

[Naiadryade]

Well, when I did WO, I definitely created mechanical damage by the way I washed my hair. I don't know if I would call it "scrubbing"--I didn't ball it all up or anything--but I needed to aggressively massage my hair under running water for a good long while to get it clean. I didn't have the luxury of high water pressure like some do. I wasn't avoiding other kinds of mechanical damage either (this was before my LHC days), but I'm fairly certain that WO washing contributed to the damage I'm still trimming out. Certainly hair is more susceptible to mechanical damage when wet.

Clay washing didn't require much manipulation at all. I pretty much gently massaged it just enough to get it evenly distributed, then time did most of the work as I let it sit for 20 minutes or so.

Haven't tried CO washing. Now I use a gentle, all-natural, diluted shampoo so I don't get much mechanical or chemical damage from washing my hair.

[ravenreed]

No, because by letting the conditioner sit for so long, it dissolves any excess oils and leaves my hair squeaky clean but not stripped. I have to clarify when I use oils or herbal rinses. When I only use conditioner, I don't get much build up. However, my hair benefits from the herbal rinses, so I balance that by occasionally clarifying.


Hmm, interesting. Many of you report massaging, not thoroughly scrubbing during conditioner-only washes.
But I massage conditioner into my hair when I condition it, after a shampoo or any other cleanser. But I call it conditioning, not conditioner washing. So if you use only conditioner but in massaging motions, why not qualify these as "conditioning" sessions rather than cleansing "washes"? Is that the reason why so many people on CO-routines have to clarify? Basically, they "wash" their hair only once a month or so (when they clarify), and other times they do conditioning treatments (when they thoroughly wet, condition and massage hair)?

[teela1978]

A couple questions to LHC-ers who experimented with a few washing routines:
- Do you notice that you need more active scrubbing/pulling with CO-washing, Water-Only, clay/herbs (or other "mud" treatments) methods, as compared to shampoo or low-poo?

- Is there a possibility that these alternative methods replace chemical damage (from harsh detergents) with mechanical damage (from more scrubbing)? And if so, which one is the "lesser evil" long-term?
In my experiences, I had to manipulate my hair a lot more with non-traditional washing methods compared to basic shampooing. I think for different people, the physical manipulation can be worse but for others the chemical cleansers are worse. For me, my head is happiest with shampoo. I think you have to experiment to see what works best for your head.

[lapushka]

Henna took hair, it is in a sense a "clay" treatment, well... "mud" treatment, but it turns to damn near hard bits anyway that you then have to wash out. It takes a *lot* of hair! CO took a lot of hair. I think it's in part the products, in part the mechanical damage of rubbing/massaging.

In any case, plain 'ole' shampoo for me! ;)